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Why so much hate for the star wars game pack
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Even packs I don't care for usually have some things I enjoy, and I buy them for collector's sake. This will probably be the first pack I skip over entirely.
I'm looking forward to LGR's review of it because I know it'll be funny.
Also, a comment I saw on YouTube I agree with: Sims 4 has far outstayed its welcome. And as I said, I have every pack, so I don't hate the game.
I'm not sure, but couldn't some of the additional costs in the past have been due to extra overhead such as disc media, packaging, shipping, and shelf space in retail outlets? Distribution back then was a lot different than it is now. Game companies that have their own distribution outfits have cut out a lot of the "middle man" type costs it seems. It hasn't necessarily stopped those companies from charging heavy prices for games, however DLC costs seem more reasonable these days with frequent sales and bundles.
The TS3 store was certainly a test of the community's tolerance for frequent DLC at a substantial price point. However, it seems that the general outcry against a separate, high-priced store was actually heard and acknowledged.
His reviews are always amusing.
LGR really dislikes TS4. However, based on what I've seen of his playstyle, if he likes SW, he might actually get a kick out of JtB. The question is whether the "world" or the way that gameplay has been restricted to Batuu will overshadow the gameplay for him.
Well, since you "dared" me... (And I did quickly summarize the gameplay, which you again cherry picked in your reply, unless you truly haven't researched it, in which case means you're just uninformed, and that's understandable since very little info has come out.)
I'm going to preface this yet again with the statement that the pack isn't even released yet, and all we actually know is what is filtered through a few choice Game Changers who were given the pack, the synopsis written on the game site, and the tweets from the devs. There has not been a "deep dive", so I can only cover what I've seen and/or read from these sources.
So. The gameplay of Batuu consists of three separate main story arcs, each includes an allied "faction", and each path changes the influence and access your Sim has in certain areas of the world. This also affects the behaviors of the factions and citizens of Batuu. And according to SimGuru Romeo:
He also states that the Mission system is a type of [story] progression system and that there are many side missions which work like the Odd Jobs. Those are open ended and "allow you to replay them with rotating objectives".
The world was designed on purpose to have fewer lots in order to minimize load screens. So it was designed with rabbit holes in an "open world" hybrid style, hence one major lot in each "neighborhood". (They can be built on with the free build cheat.) According to devs, they didn't want players to have to go through a load screen every time they needed to do something. They wanted it to be more immersive.
No, there are no Occults. The aliens are new "heads", with animated eyes and mouths, so a bit more than "costumes". Their reasoning is because alien races in Star Wars have no supernatural powers. The heads (under hats), I'm assuming can be used on other Occults, so if a player wanted other aliens with powers, they can use those head options. The problem that I see with this, is that if they are treated like hats, they will disappear under special wardrobe circumstances. So that wasn't very well thought out. They also don't change the full body skin tone, but partially, which is very strange and seems sloppy. I haven't seen them address the reason for this. Still, I didn't expect an alien overhaul because that would make Star Wars an addon pack for Get to Work, and as I stated, SW aliens don't have powers. I personally can find use for them as is.
Force users would have been a great Occult addition that I would welcome, and I'm disappointed that they weren't included. I think they can most likely be replicated with the existing Occults, so I'll make do, but I'm pretty sure that if they had been included, people would have been calling them "recycled powers" anyway.
Now, again, keep in mind that this is a GP, not an EP. Space travel, a variety of aliens, galaxies... what you're suggesting is getting into a much bigger pack realm. If you're still not convinced, let's revisit the actual "gameplay" of a few past GPs, which I'll remind you that for the same price, we used to get merely a smattering of objects, build items and CAS in Sims 2 and 3.
Spa Day ~ Gameplay consists of a few spa themed interactive objects, some of which spawn an NPC to interact with your Sim. No world whatsoever. New animations and interactions, but limited. Teleportation power if you get to the top of the new wellness skill. Niche theme, use depends on the player. When it released, there was hardly a peep about it. No one really complained. No one really cared. It just kind of drifted by.
Dine Out ~ Gameplay consists of owning a restaurant and managing it. Cannot play as chef, waiter or host. Extremely focused build/buy and most of CAS. Restaurants can be used and placed on any lot and visited. Other gameplay consists of taking Sims to the restaurant and ordering and eating food. Reusable if you like that kind of simple, real life gameplay. Added a lot more food and also customizable menus and outfits. No new world. The announcement caused hype that I didn't understand so to each their own. Pack is often quite buggy and people eventually got upset that they couldn't play as a chef. Mixed reviews.
Outdoor Retreat ~ The very first experimental GP. It came with a small, non-livable, buildable world with an additional hidden lot, and special townies (rangers and bear outfits). Gameplay consists of vacationing in Granite Falls in a cabin or camp with some new interactive objects. Also herbalism skill and new collectibles. Main gameplay of the area besides vacationing is bug collecting. I can't really think of anything else it offers. Reusable but often reviewed as kind of boring.
Parenthood ~ Gameplay consists of character values and new system for young Sim behaviors. Added small systems like curfews, new interactable objects, interactions between Sims, animations. Player directed actions affect results of Sim behaviors. No new world. Very well received pack by family players. Very focused theme towards family/domestic and/or "realism" players. Not as much by Occult/adventure players.
Vampires ~ Gameplay consists of being able to create a variety of vampires, choosing from a new powers and weaknesses system and physical customization. Behaviors and animations affected by new system choices. New animations and behaviors. No way to "turn off" Vampires. Small, creepy, livable, buildable world included. Pack received well by Occult players, not so well by "realistic"/family players. Very focused theme towards Occult players.
StrangerVille ~ Gameplay consists of a single, linear mystery story full of tasks that fully affects environment of world and citizens. Medium sized, livable, mostly buildable world included. When story ends, can be restarted or world can be played as "normal". Outside townies come in, but "infected" townies stay in StrangerVille. Martial Arts skill. Mixed reception. Very strange and niche theme.
Anyway, my purpose for putting some comparisons on here is to note that all GPs are not created equally. Where one thing is absent, like a world, there is usually more focus on something else. When there is a world included, there will be limitations somewhere else. Sometimes the theme focus is extremely narrow, meant to please only a minority of the player base. How that crowd is pleased is most likely a consideration in how that pack is constructed and what kind of decisions are made for its gameplay. There is no standardization with GPs. They are experimental in nature and are meant to have features that suit the chosen theme.
So returning back to the case of SW Batuu, they put the focus in this far away world, where the story is contained and doesn't mix as directly with Sim Nation. It is meant to be immersive in the nature of SW and feel separate, while giving your Sims a way to be part of the known story. And by choosing to design it after the theme park, they have given an opening for players who want to treat it as such, like in the real life immersive experience you get from going to Galaxy's Edge, and they can do that. Devs have designed it so that items brought back to the Sim's "reality" become collectibles. Not as good for those of us who want Batuu to always be real, but then, just returning there gives that immersive experience again. A player could even just bring a Sim there to hang out in the cantina and do odd missions without following one of the three linear stories. That gameplay even makes sense to cross over with Sim Aliens. There's no reason, as far as I can tell, why a player can't take their own Alien to Batuu to get droids, gamble at sabacc in the cantina or do side missions and treat it like a separate, bustling planet.
Anyway, we'll all know more this week how it actually plays out. For me, the pack releases at Midnight tomorrow and I'll be there to get it. I love Star Wars and I want it in my game. I will not be protesting to send EA a message of discontent. And for those who truly want the pack, I encourage them to follow their own needs as well, for whatever reason they wish.
I agree and the potential of just having features contained in the pack restricted to that pack has yet to be confirmed. However I have an sinking feeling it is as this is becoming the norm now and widely accepted.
You can't live there. The aliens aren't real aliens. You can't learn the Force. You can't romance the quest-giver NPCs. You're not going to be able to kill or maim other sims with weapons. There won't be multiple worlds. You won't get to live on a starship. All of the clothing and NPCs are isolated from the main neighborhoods.
Just like the Galaxy's Edge theme park, all of it. The isolated inventory is kind of surprising, but it makes some sense, because there's a lot of things your sim can carry in their inventory that you couldn't bring into the park. Kind of annoying that, for instance, my fashion photographer sim can't bring their good camera and tripod and will just have to make do with their cell phone, but okay. It's meant to be immersive. And I'm a little surprised that there's only one buildable lot per neighborhood, but that's mostly because I know there's a simmer out there who says they've cracked the code for making large lots that you can stick multiple sub-lots onto. And it's not like a bunch of us don't try to do that anyway, building multi-purpose parks and pools, or if we can't have hotels, we can at least make fake inns by putting some bedrooms on the upper floors of a restaurant and hoping the wait staff won't just take naps at random.
There is a bunch of build/buy and debug stuff that we can choose to put into our regular games if we want it. There's a lot of CAS parts that won't show up randomly outside of Batuu, but that we can choose to dress sims in if we want.
Basically, it seems to me like this pack was designed specifically to be broadly useful for multiple play styles and competely nonessential if you don't want it:
Exactly what I meant. No gameplay whatsoever like you just proved.
I know all of the things you said and have read all of the tweets.
And like I already mentioned these are the only pieces of gameplay in this and it is very little.
The 50 missions that exist are like the missions we have been seeing in the Let's plays. "Eat this" "wear this" "talk to this person". Very little amount of missions actually include any interesting interactions and new animations and I have seen a lot of them so far.
Many consist of just chance cards and pop up messages which I wouldn't call necessarily interesting or immersive.
Now to the world. I also read the tweet and I know they did it so there wouldn't be loading screens. Was it a good idea though? No. The neighborhoods are all very small and all consist of rabbit holes and decoration. There is not much to explore. Once you've been to a district you've seen everything. They should have come up with a better idea to make up for the lack of lots, but they didn't and it shows. Means what? No exploration gameplay.
The new "aliens" like you said are not new occults and function like normal sims so yeah not gameplay there either. The fact that their eyes and mouths move isn't gameplay.
This might be a GP but if you want to make a Star wars GP then you need to make sure you cover as much ground as possible and try to give a full experience as much as you can. The GP is already lacking in gameplay features so maybe adding more star wars fantasy would have been possible. But still doesn't exist.
Also comparing the features of this GP to the other ones has absolutely nothing to do with what I stated before and is honestly not necessary because it doesn't prove anything. If there is a GP out there that has less gameplay that Star Wars it doesn't mean Star Wars has a lot of gameplay.
Comparing a bad situation to a worse situation doesn't make the bad situation any much better.
The Sims 2 and the Sims 3 had different pack models. They gave us stuff packs, which were meant to just have stuff. So don't compare apples to pears
Oh come on now. The pack just isn't to your liking and that's fine. Why can't you just admit that?
Comparing the GPs to past SPs is perfectly relevant. It shows how much content and "gameplay" we have gotten for the monetary cost, which can give an idea of the overall pack budget level and what they have to work with and what we should expect out of it. It's to show you that you're not going to get EP level gameplay in a GP.
And my GP comparisons were definitely valid, as the point was to objectively prove that there are different kinds of gameplay and different kinds of players, and in order to portray a theme in a GP, the gameplay has to be designed to suit it specifically, so it's never going to be a static formula. But I think you know that. You can keep ignoring it if you wish.
The bottom line is, gameplay that isn't to your liking doesn't stop being gameplay. Something you personally don't enjoy doesn't mean someone else won't find enjoyment from it. You are trying to restrict what gameplay is by defining it (or rather, not really defining it, just denying it) to fit your own bias. I really can't continue this discussion with you if you're going to move the goal posts like that. You are clearly unable to truly be objective, nor seem to be willing to acknowledge that what constitutes as "good" gameplay is completely subjective and up to each individual player to decide for themself.
So that's that. I'll learn more about the pack when I've actually played it myself. I'm sure you can find a way to move on. Maybe the upcoming EP will be more to your liking.
I guess not, because how else do we always end up with “NOBODY ASKED FOR THIS”.
At this stage I have no butt left from laughing, which is a pity, because it looked good on me.
My thinking is if they don't care that others might have wanted a SW (or space at least) pack, then why would they care about other players opinions too? I'd be more surprised if they DID read other posts and understood them much less agreed with them.
It's an attempt at empowering oneself to seem more believable. Unfortunately, it only reflects that the person in question is so overwhelmed by their emotions that they can't make a rational assessment.
A smile is the prettiest thing you can wear
Time enjoyed is never time wasted
For some funny reason, Odysseus springs to mind when someone says "Nobody asked for this." 🤣🤓
Who said no one wanted the Star Wars pack? You? Oh well that your choice but I for one am glad they put a Star Wars pack in instead of a knitting pack, which to me is boring and I didn't want. See how that can go. I didn't like the knitting pack and could have been like you and said no one which would have been false, just like your comment no one wanted a Star Wars.
In fact after Moschino stuff, many people expressed the wish for no more collaborations.
The vocal majority has been very clear about the themes and things it wants. Unless I missed all the posts begging for a Star Wars pack and I’m pretty sure I didn’t.
That’s not to say I’m sure many are excited about this pack and I genuinely hope they aren’t disappointed.
Had the game not just turned Six years old And many requests still ignored, I think this pack wouldn’t have had such a poor response. And by the looks of it, the pack looks very limiting and full of recycled animations so arguably it’s not even a good Star Wars pack.
1: I didn't ask for this.
2: I can't think of a single person, anywhere, who asked for this.
Is this the kind of thing we can expect for the next couple of years? Story packs that last a few hours whose only other purpose is for builders?
Oh, I dare say there are people out there who like Star Wars and The Sims and will enjoy hanging around on Batuu. But I never saw them standing up and saying "You know what's missing from Sims 4? STAR WARS!"
That's an example of both selection bias and an insufficient sample size. "The people I know" is not a useful pool for a survey of anything except that specific group of people. This forum isn't representative of all Sims players, nor are the comments section on a YouTube video, nor are online web polls for what packs you'd like to see in the future, regardless of whether they were conducted by EA. People who know how to do those sorts of things get paid a lot of money to conduct actual marketing surveys that contact thousands of people, chosen as close to randomly as possible, and get the opinions of players across the spectrum, not just the ones who post here or whatever. In the case of a Star Wars pack, EA probably also looked at whether people who didn't play The Sims currently, either total non-players or lapsed players, would buy a Sims pack (and maybe the base game) if it had a Star Wars theme.
EA isn't going to show us their internal marketing data. We just have to believe that if they're putting out this pack it's because their data said it would be profitable. That data might be wrong, but it's not the result of not listening to "the fans."
And, to get ahead of a couple of arguments:
The poll that ranked Star Wars last as a thing Sims players wanted was (a) not done by EA and (b) an online poll which is useless as far as market research, since it only measures the opinion of people who read that article and wanted to vote in that poll. It didn't even control for whether or not people played the Sims, so the poll could have been bombed by people still carrying a grudge that there are girls and minorities in Star Wars now.
The survey that had the fans select Nifty Knitting as the next stuff pack? I guarantee every option on the list was something that EA knew fans were interested in. They weren't going to put in an option that they thought no one would buy and hope that the voters didn't vote for it as a joke. That was a way to build fan engagement, not market research.
That is what EA should do, but I don't think they actually do much survey research. They rely heavily on telemetry and focus groups, which explains some of the head-scratching decisions they make. For instance, they made the decision to leave toddlers out of Sims 4 based, at least in large part, of data collected from telemetry which showed people generally aged up toddlers as soon as possible. Of course, telemetry did not tell them why, but I'm not sure it occurred to anyone to try to find out why. One of the more appalling interviews with, I think it was SimGuru Drake, was regarding teenage girls and how the game was being geared and marketed towards them. However, she said that they couldn't actually talk to teenage girls, so they talked to adults who work with teenage girls.
IOW, EA doesn't seem to understand that data collection and interpretation of the data is very much an art.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_us/discussion/884591/the-sims-outer-space-pack
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/922409/sixam-as-a-playable-world
Speculation was going about it too:
https://extratime.media/2020/08/05/sims-4-new-game-pack-theories-clues-hints-all/
People looking for CC Star Wars content:
https://sims4studio.com/thread/19127/wcif-request-star-wars-cas
Anyways I never believed the "majority" claim. Because that was told to family players to silence us about content we wanted and others didn't like toddlers that could have been spent on other content like parties. There is always going to be content that some Simmers want and others don't, but I don't think content should stop being made for the Sims franchise just because it offends some people. Otherwise we would never get a skin tone update or gender update or packs for toddlers and kids or the Muslim content of the New Year's content. I am tired of politically correct opinions influencing the Sims franchise to keep it a "safe place". We need content to appeal to everyone equally. That is what inclusivity is about and I am tired of the Sims franchise being only exclusive and narrow minded. About time they experimented because being an OG Simmer was never about playing it safe. It was always about breaking the barrier of the social norm and about time Sims got back to its roots with that. My family play includes sci-fi and supernatural content. Sure it might be different from the norm of humanoid only stories, but Sims was never just about normal stories, it was about adventure and taking chances and trying new things too whether it is fantasy or sci-fi.
Then people claim that throwing a fit gave them toddlers, and that it justifies throwing more fits. Well, I think it is fundamentally wrong to communicate this way, and I hope EAxis will stop rewarding such behavior.
In my opinion, they should not have added toddlers as a response to that kind of behavior. Perhaps they have made the same conclusion and will not cave to angry masses in the future, as that will be a really toxic relationship. I'm glad that the least wanted pack is now released, because I hope it's also a message to players - that they shouldn't get too comfortable thinking they can just bluster and then have their way.
I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
A smile is the prettiest thing you can wear
Time enjoyed is never time wasted
It doesn't offend me, but you're making it sound like business decisions are the same as disciplining a child. And you're wrong. They make decisions based on what they feel will make the most money, not based on positive/negative reinforcement to encourage behaviors. The only behavior EA cares about is the opening of the wallet. I'm okay with that.
Anyways some ways communication has worked:
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/880216/ideas-at-a-glance-for-toddlers/p1
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/973106/knitting-gameplay-questions-for-the-community/p1
It was great sharing ideas with the dev team and I hope they do communication like this so that there can be some transparency. We just got to keep it business related rather than treating the Gurus like they are rock stars. They are real people and I think Star Wars was a wakening call that Gurus have nerd fandoms just like Simmers do which actually made them more relatable to Simmers which not everyone likes. It is ok for Gurus to make mistakes and not hit a homerun every time. Sims 4 needs more of that imperfection and experimenting. Gurus aren't Sims that the community can control, they are real people too. Simmers are real people too. It is that humanity that society has lost touch of that it is wrong to show emotions.