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The Comparison Thread

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    OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 5,000 Member
    I'm one of the handful that appreciates and prefers the attention to the little details. Even such things as the backs of electronic devices. When in place who's going to see what's there? But the backs are a detailed as the fronts, everything on the RL item is there. Craftsmanship vs quick & dirty.
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    CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited September 2019
    thecatsred wrote: »
    Cynna wrote: »
    Sidebar: I thought that it was only me who noticed the empty venues. The liveliness of public lots was one of the things that TS4 had going for it. These days, I try to take screenshots at public venues but, they are strangely empty in comparison to how they used to be. I have to use mods to spawn more Sims because the game doesn't. I wonder what changed?

    I've noticed this too!

    I was really excited when I first sent my sim out on the town in sims 4 and the venue they went to was PACKED, unlike sims 3 where you'd get the notice that it was a hot spot, and your sim would walk in and stare at the DJ who was the only one in there and then turn around and leave lol.

    But lately this seems to be shifting... is it because there's more lots now for sims to pick from? I thought sims kinda... just Loaded In when you were loading the lot / traveling...

    To my understanding, they do spawn in when a lot is loaded. The number of venues in the game shouldn't make a difference as TS4 doesn't have an open world. When Sims are not on the active lot, they are inactive. They aren't visiting other places as they did in TS3. That's why I don't understand the decreased numbers at public venues.

    I use LittleMsSam's lot traits in order to control the number of Sims on lots as well as to control what they are allowed to do once they are there. The mods give the venues life and allow the NPCs to autonomously do activities that they would not do otherwise. Right now, I'm staging a scene about a young entrepreneurs conference which takes place at a large convention center that I downloaded from the Gallery. With mods, there are dozens of Sims on-site and I was able to weed out the children and the elderly.

    If mods are capable of doing what I have described above, why have the EA/Maxis developers throttled the game so much? They could have provided a gameplay option that allows the player to choose between bare minimum, moderate, or loaded for bear venue populations, at the players' own risk. It could have been similar to the options that EA provided for the total population of the game. They could have added a warning to the most processor-heavy option. Instead, they've boiled the game down to the lowest common denominator which isn't fair to anyone.
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    JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    I'm one of the handful that appreciates and prefers the attention to the little details. Even such things as the backs of electronic devices. When in place who's going to see what's there? But the backs are a detailed as the fronts, everything on the RL item is there. Craftsmanship vs quick & dirty.
    Lol, me too. I remember watching an entire LGR video (about an hour) where he built a tiny LEGO computer that included all kind of tiny details that were invisible once he had finished. Loved every minute of that video :D It felt like the most useful thing a person could possibly do to me.
    5JZ57S6.png
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited September 2019
    Banner.png

    Conclusion
    TS4 lacks so many features when it comes to what makes Sims unique, and this is a problem because the series is called The Sims. Being able to make great looking characters is worthless when those characters are skin deep when it comes to detail. Sims in TS2 were dynamic and changed over the course of their lives with influences from so many different areas. It doesn't matter if we're getting magic, or if we get University or anything else - if the core of the series, the Sims themselves, is boring then no amount of content will make the game interesting for a good length of time for many people.

    When a member of the old guard says that TS4 lacks depth, ^^^^^ that's what they mean.

    I haven't even started on build mode, TS3 comparisons or Will Wright yet either.

    TS2 gameplay had time and care put into it. TS4 gameplay is rushed and uninspired.....and they will do whatever they can to put the least amount of effort onto things while still selling them at very high prices. That is the problem..... It's why if I buy anything for TS4 now it's on sale if at all. They have even stopped supporting their own BG features, like how lounge chairs didn't get multitasking....everything is a hassle for them.

    And I'm not saying there aren't any actually good features, there are some... but the overall majority of the gameplay is like that and to me the BG is still the biggest culprit since the sims themselves aren't good. They didn't include a detailed and fun personality/socialising system in the BG and it hurts the whole game. But after 5 years I have no hope of them adding one.
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    Renato10Renato10 Posts: 472 Member
    edited September 2019
    The Sims 4 dlcs just add short time adventures. Different skin for fun. They don't really change the core gameplay. Expansions at least should be doing that! Only Get Together and Seasons provide that really! Im talking about deeply changes!
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    To7mTo7m Posts: 5,467 Member
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T
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    Marduc_PlaysMarduc_Plays Posts: 416 Member
    All this! Listen and learn. There's so much good to pull from. And the obvious mistakes to avoid.
    Parcour - the art of jumping to conclusions.
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    Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.
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    fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    Banner.png

    *cut for brevity*

    Conclusion
    TS4 lacks so many features when it comes to what makes Sims unique, and this is a problem because the series is called The Sims.

    Being able to make great looking characters is worthless when those characters are skin deep when it comes to detail. Sims in TS2 were dynamic and changed over the course of their lives with influences from so many different areas. It doesn't matter if we're getting magic, or if we get University or anything else - if the core of the series, the Sims themselves, is boring then no amount of content will make the game interesting for a good length of time for many people.

    When a member of the old guard says that TS4 lacks depth, ^^^^^ that's what they mean.

    I haven't even started on build mode, TS3 comparisons or Will Wright yet either.

    Excellent post and I wanted to just say YES!!! to the above.

    While the sims in sims 4 are some of the prettiest/diverse looking we have ever been able to create, they lack any substance or depth. There is nothing beyond the look of the game. This is not the "Sims" game of old. This is pseudo-sims. This is pretend sims. This is kindergarten dollhouse sims. And it gets pretty boring, pretty quick, no matter what content they add.

    They aren't addressing the problem with the game. And that's the depth of the sims themselves. But for me, that lack of depth started in 3. I had high hopes 4 was going to be 2 revisited and updated, but alas, that is not the case. There's nothing to these sims.

    Sims 1 and 2 are the ultimate. 3 and 4 are sad copies, or attempts, or just plain old money grabs.

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    fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.

    Their vision of emotions? That doesn't go beyond the animations of slamming a fridge, or stomping around, or sadly eating with quivering lips....

    They don't have emotions about any other sim. Or any relationship....except when the game has coded them to go hug a family member autonomously. The "emotion" selling point was a farce from the get-go. We've yet to see it in action in game like they advertised.

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    Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.

    Their vision of emotions? That doesn't go beyond the animations of slamming a fridge, or stomping around, or sadly eating with quivering lips....

    They don't have emotions about any other sim. Or any relationship....except when the game has coded them to go hug a family member autonomously. The "emotion" selling point was a farce from the get-go. We've yet to see it in action in game like they advertised.

    Yes, key phrase, "their vision." I don't support it, and I think their choice to implement it with a half-baked system from TS3 was a huge oversight.
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    JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2019
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.
    I agree. Traits are ok for talents I think, personality is better off with Sims 2’s system. I like Sims 4’s emotions, but NOT the system they created around them. The whole overriding object aura thing.

    I don’t agree with Sims 3 lacking depth by the way, because there most definitely is a lot of depth in the game when I play. Just not in the same fields as in Sims 1 and 2 (less animation detail mainly). In other fields the game has more depth though (thanks to the open world system), Sims 2 tends to become a bit boring for me after a while for this reason. It’s just a matter of preference what sort of depth you like in your game, they tried something different for Sims 3 and though not every player embraced that, I think that’s perfectly defensible. They had an idea that worked for some and not for others. Sims 3 and 4 are in no way comparable where it comes to depth. Also, Sims 3 is not a sad copy, if anything it’s rather the odd one out. It’s Sims 4 where they seem to do all these attempts to copy things from the first two games. That’s why they seem to cater the Sims 3 fans the least (I notice that people who love Sims 4 seem to mainly be Sims 2 fans and Sims 3 haters) and that is why I’m still here defending that game.
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    PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 389 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.

    Their vision of emotions? That doesn't go beyond the animations of slamming a fridge, or stomping around, or sadly eating with quivering lips....

    Emotions in TS4 are terrible. Sims don't have personalities due to how the moodlet based play works. Traits don't matter. Every Sim is whatever emotion they're currently experiencing, and every Sim responds to the same emotions in the same way, which is where complaints about all Sims being carbon copies - just with different paint jobs - comes from. It's so flimsy.

    In TS3 Sims actually had emotions and responses that were determined by their traits. It wasn't a perfect system by any means but it was much better than what we have now, with the core of TS4 being dull.
    Emotions.png
    Madotsuki-Chair-Spin.gif
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    vcosleyvcosley Posts: 880 Member
    I don't play it's so boring. Every update creats another glitch. It's lacking depth. What were they thinking.
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    Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited October 2019
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

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    Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited October 2019
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    I don’t see what the excuse is in omitting these high quality, realistic animations. This is a life simulator, centered all around looking at these little people. That type of thing should be standard in this game, especially. Instead, there are too many shortcuts taken, things appearing out of air, proofing away, etc. Let’s not forget how choppy and poorly done Laundry Day animations are, eek.

    There’s just no excuse. It’s cutting corners, simply put.
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    OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 5,000 Member
    All in the interests of greater profits. Did some TS2 over the weekend and was again reminded of the detail, the realism, how easily the game handles a moderately complex story line involving three huseholds. No way I could have done that in 4. Held my attention so I forgot about time, too. And today found myself occasionally thinking about how to develop the plot further. That never happens in 4.
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    I don’t see what the excuse is in omitting these high quality, realistic animations. This is a life simulator, centered all around looking at these little people. That type of thing should be standard in this game, especially. Instead, there are too many shortcuts taken, things appearing out of air, proofing away, etc. Let’s not forget how choppy and poorly done Laundry Day animations are, eek.

    There’s just no excuse. It’s cutting corners, simply put.

    Are they though?
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
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    OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 5,000 Member
    Speakest thou of the animations or the cut corners?
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    Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    I don’t see what the excuse is in omitting these high quality, realistic animations. This is a life simulator, centered all around looking at these little people. That type of thing should be standard in this game, especially. Instead, there are too many shortcuts taken, things appearing out of air, proofing away, etc. Let’s not forget how choppy and poorly done Laundry Day animations are, eek.

    There’s just no excuse. It’s cutting corners, simply put.

    Are they though?

    Watch your Sims very closely when they move laundry into the dryer or washer. Your Sims will move almost like they're stuttering around because of how poorly animated the stuff pack's animations are.
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    OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 5,000 Member
    Might be something to check if my sims actually had any dirty laundry to wash. Talk about non-animations! Maybe they were feeling so guilty about the con job they couldn't focus.
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    I don’t see what the excuse is in omitting these high quality, realistic animations. This is a life simulator, centered all around looking at these little people. That type of thing should be standard in this game, especially. Instead, there are too many shortcuts taken, things appearing out of air, proofing away, etc. Let’s not forget how choppy and poorly done Laundry Day animations are, eek.

    There’s just no excuse. It’s cutting corners, simply put.

    Are they though?

    Watch your Sims very closely when they move laundry into the dryer or washer. Your Sims will move almost like they're stuttering around because of how poorly animated the stuff pack's animations are.

    I've never personally noticed that.... I may have a look later on. It could be that there's a bug in the animation, who knows. Sims already have trouble taking the bag out of the hamper without glitching.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
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    PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 389 Member
    edited October 2019
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    To7m wrote: »
    All this thread has done (great post btw I agree fully) has made me realise how good TS2 is, also taught me some things I to this day didn’t know about it, and how *bad* TS4 looks to its ancestor games. Even TS1.

    How can number 4 not be better than number 1? I don’t get it. TS4 should be 1,2 and 3 combined and then some on top of that. It’s so disappointing. Just makes me annoyed lol

    —T

    Technically most old games were made with more forethought than their newer versions. I have played games years ago I couldn't get enough of and then go play an newer version and hated it. As some developers sometimes see something they did previously less important - like Sims 2 sims pulling bowls out of cabinets and utensiles out of drawers are missed now they don't do that and took away some of the reality for players - because lets face it - real human do not pull utensiles and bowls out of the air - so yes it bothers us - but for some odd reason does not bother the creators of the game. The cutting corners in animations makes many games feel much less a game than they used to be, seeing in real life well we cannot make bowls materialize in thin air..

    I don’t see what the excuse is in omitting these high quality, realistic animations. This is a life simulator, centered all around looking at these little people. That type of thing should be standard in this game, especially. Instead, there are too many shortcuts taken, things appearing out of air, proofing away, etc. Let’s not forget how choppy and poorly done Laundry Day animations are, eek.

    There’s just no excuse. It’s cutting corners, simply put.

    Are they though?

    Watch your Sims very closely when they move laundry into the dryer or washer. Your Sims will move almost like they're stuttering around because of how poorly animated the stuff pack's animations are.

    That pack is pretty basic all round, especially when you consider how a lot of stuff that was supposed to be in it got dropped. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the votes were aimed at the eco content rather than laundry.
    Laundry-Day.png
    Post edited by PrincipleOfEntropy on
    Madotsuki-Chair-Spin.gif
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited October 2019
    fullspiral wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I don't think traits belonged in The Sims 4, at least with their vision of emotions. We were given only a fraction of traits available from the huge list of TS3's traits, and each one felt less fleshed out than their TS3 version. Really, it just seems like they did not think the whole personality aspect of our Sims beyond emotions.

    I think the solution is to work from TS2's personality point system upwards. Maybe they could infuse the interest system of TS2 with the trait system of TS3. I don't see much value in recycling emotions for TS5, that's for sure.

    Their vision of emotions? That doesn't go beyond the animations of slamming a fridge, or stomping around, or sadly eating with quivering lips....

    Emotions in TS4 are terrible. Sims don't have personalities due to how the moodlet based play works. Traits don't matter. Every Sim is whatever emotion they're currently experiencing, and every Sim responds to the same emotions in the same way, which is where complaints about all Sims being carbon copies - just with different paint jobs - comes from. It's so flimsy.

    In TS3 Sims actually had emotions and responses that were determined by their traits. It wasn't a perfect system by any means but it was much better than what we have now, with the core of TS4 being dull.
    Emotions.png

    Besides this all being false advertising of how the game really plays, note the mood bar, it says the bar falls and produces uncomfortable etc. The problem with TS4 to me is the mood bar rarely falls in my game, and the Sims were always elated and happy, happy. Uncomfortable (ooh, how much excitement something bad might happen is that?) is easily solved by walking to the next room with silly decor. The whole ad is such a joke, I can't even. And I have news for them, If I'm grumpy (from pain) I am not going to get sad first, before mean or angry, I'm going to get rude and more grumpy, instead of sad. They have no idea what happens to real people's emotions in my opinion. Grumpy brings smart alec remarks, short tempers, and irritation (especially if it's from any sort of pain when you can't do something) and produces less patience in a person. They really have no idea what happens and it's not 'sad' as the logical next step of emotions.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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