The Sims 4 is a life simulator. You can't play with life if an entire LIFE stage is removed from the game. Plus, it's a base game feature. End of story!
I think some (scratch that, MOST) people genuinely like toddlers and like their game to emulate life as far as possible. I hate toddlers and children, and used to ignore them in my game as much as possible (thank you, Bonehilda, baby mats, Aurora Skies objects and boarding schools), but I do like dogs a lot, even if they don't do anything, and if someone took them out of the Pets expansion, I would probably murder everyone at EA.
Good point, I never thought of it this way, maybe I am beginning to see what the brew ha ha is all about. I really do not care one way or the other, but sometimes, the drama of not having them gets a bit ridiculous and I think that is where I find the whole argument a bit hard to believe. When someone puts it in this kind of perspective, not "oh! I can't play the game" I see it more as a loss for them, here I see it as a loss for all. Thank you for the clarification.
We all play differently and for different reasons. If you didn't like them and aged them up quickly, that's good for you. However, many of us loved that age (my favorite actually) and used it to create a character that we could take from cradle to the grave. I feel that it is one of the best stages in a sims life because this is when they form deep and meaningful relationships with family and when they learn those basic developmental skills. In the past 2 games, that actually meant something. In TS2, learning the skill would bring aspiration points and a high relationship boost from the sim who taught it to them. They didn't have to learn them to age up well, but you'd miss out on a lot. Then they took it a step further in TS3 and made it so that you had to learn them to age up well. And it should be that way. Toddlers who are neglected lack the knowledge they need to succeed early in life. The more they learned, the bigger the boost to skill building later in life. And if you didn't bother to learn them, then you'd get randomized traits, which could be horrible. I really expected them to take it a step further in TS4.
There is really so much that could have been added to the stage. Not only skill building, but personality building. Say tots who play with blocks have interests in logic and mechanics. They could have handiness traits that would boost building or upgrading objects later in life. Tots that do a lot of art projects could have creative traits that would boost their painting skill and make them more likely to paint masterpieces later in life. Traits COULD actually mean something in this game.
Throw in some actual parenting, too. The way I imagined TS4 was like this: Two families each have a baby. Family one has two working parents. They don't get to spend much time with their baby. Family 2's dad is working while mom stays home. Both families love their child. Family 1's tot discovers a lot about the world on his own. He gets into mischief unintentionally, but his nanny is quick to correct it. Mom and dad take their queue from the nanny and reinforce the discipline when they are home. The toddler is learning to be good through corrective discipline (like pets in previous games). Family 2's tot is guided through much of the day. It's structured and focused on skill building. He spends most of his time with mom. However, the times when mom is away, the tot likes to get into trouble. His nanny doesn't correct him and little by little, his personality changes to become more rebellious. Mom and dad also don't correct the behavior and he is learning to do bad things (like pets in previous games). To me, this is the foundation for the rest of a sims life. I imagined this stuff happening in previous games, but I really would like to see something like this implemented into the core of it. It's important to me. It makes no sense to have "evil" sims who have had a good life and have no reason to be evil. I like continuity, not just the "weirder stories" and lolz.
I've been reading the forum for the past couple of weeks and it seems that people are really fixated by the lack of Toddlers in The Sims 4. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting them. Not trying to cause a debate. Talking for myself, I never really enjoyed that stage. In fact, I rather hated it and in The Sims 3, I would set the age so the toddler stage was as short as possible.
My question is, besides the fact that they are missing and fidelity of the simulation; What is the fascination with toddlers? What did everyone do with them in the previous games that added to the enjoyment of those games?
I liked them in my game but when I'd read stories in the sims 3 forums there were a lot of people saying that toddlers were annoying and disliked them. They grew them up right away. I personally take my time growing my sims up.
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Of all the things missing in the game I also don't understand the fixation on toddlers. Sure they should have been included in the base game, but honestly the game will not be any different if they add them.
I loved my wittle toddlers! I would always teach them how to walk, talk, and even to go potty. There are just so many things you can do with them. It just makes everything lively and fun. Granted there were times where I wished he or she would just age up to a child already, haha.
Because this game is about playing with life. It cheapens the game to skip an entire life stage when the whole premise is to play with life; not just a 20-something year olds life.
There is something special about seeing a Sim grow, progress, and fail throughout their entire lifetime. To skip an entire life stage takes away from the believability of that Sims life.
I've been reading the forum for the past couple of weeks and it seems that people are really fixated by the lack of Toddlers in The Sims 4. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting them. Not trying to cause a debate. Talking for myself, I never really enjoyed that stage. In fact, I rather hated it and in The Sims 3, I would set the age so the toddler stage was as short as possible.
My question is, besides the fact that they are missing and fidelity of the simulation; What is the fascination with toddlers? What did everyone do with them in the previous games that added to the enjoyment of those games?
I just like to be fascinated.
No.
I really don't understand why you have to start a topic with this question because you can already read the answers everywhere (there's one particular and very lively topic in the feedback section that reached 800 pages a while ago where people share their thoughts about them).
Anyway, what I do with them: in the first place I enjoy their very existence because I like to have that family feel in the game. For me that feeling's completely lacking when a ten year old jumps out of its bassinet and it's so utterly silly that's even in the game, that nobody should have to explain why imo. Not to people who claim they like playing the Sims that is.
Apart from that: I teach them how to walk and talk (and I always use the parents and siblings for that, never the playpen or the walking.. thing (what's it called) because it's important to me family members connect with their little ones), I pottytrain them, i give them books to read, their parents take them for a walk and they play with them (there are several interactions and items in the game for that). And then, after six days, they grow up to be a ten year old and that feels completely natural. The whole family has had enough time to bond with the little new citizen (instead of having a baby born doll tied in its bassinet in the corner of the house).
Unfortunately, if you started with Sims3, you're not to blame for your lack of understanding of this life stage. Yes, toddlers can be difficult in more ways than one. But, we all go through it, if we survive and having baby leap out of the bassinet into a half-grown child is revolting, at best. Without the toddler stage, you lack the gradual transition from baby/infant to child. I really enjoy this life stage, personally. In Sims3, they stripped the toddler of many, many interactions (which in the long run made them fun) and were nothing short of boring to play. In TS2, they could throw tantrums, throw food, play in the toilet/puddles, steal a bottle from another toddler, be bathed, and if you had taught the toddler how to walk, some might even be able to climb out of their crib! Lots of little details like these were missing in TS3. Now, we don't even have what we had in TS3. They're just gone.
Besides all of that, it's hard to space the children out when creating large families without a toddler in the mix, too.
Sims 3 on the other hand has interactions with toddlers Sims 2 didn't have. Which came in later EP's but still. I've played baby's in 3 - yawn - and after that in 2 and then I understood what people were going on about, complaining about the burrito's. I just had my first baby in Sims freeplay and even that one is more cute than the Sims 3 baby (and the Sims 4 baby for that matter). But toddlers? Nah, for me they are equally fun and just slightly different. And there are a lot of things you can do with them in 3.
I LOVE the toddlers in Sims 2, they are adorable, feisty little creatures and a very important life stage because you can really get into teaching them stuff. Turning aging off and really get into it - the animations and interactions with the older sims are just as rewarding to watch. Also the toddlers interacting with each other is amazing! Especially with the modded objects that have come out of the community - the cute toys and the modded objects really made them even more immersive. They seem like little people in Sims 2. I never played Sims 3 enough to have an opinion on them in that game, but Sims 2 they have over time become one of my favorite things about the game - maybe even more so than the YA stage (university). I guess it's a matter of what you make of it too - but the fact that Sims 2 sims have memories of their younger stages - like learning to sign the nursery rhyme etc. And all their cute autonomous interactions and animations, from dancing to music, to throwing tantrums, to go sleeping in the dog bed or sing the nursery rhyme over and over...
Allons-y!
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I really don't understand why you have to start a topic with this question because you can already read the answers everywhere (there's one particular and very lively topic in the feedback section that reached 800 pages a while ago where people share their thoughts about them).
Previous topics did cover that people really want them and were upset at them not being present but none covered what people were doing with them that made them such a desired game element. I wanted to better understand what was taken away. From this topic, I gather people want toddlers for a more complete simulation, but few enjoyed them. I guess its one of those game features where it makes the game worse off and yet, a more complete experience. Sort of like Dead Rising's save system.
Previous topics did cover that people really want them and were upset at them not being present but none covered what people were doing with them that made them such a desired game element. I wanted to better understand what was taken away. From this topic, I gather people want toddlers for a more complete simulation, but few enjoyed them. I guess its one of those game features where it makes the game worse off and yet, a more complete experience. Sort of like Dead Rising's save system.
I couldn't disagree more that toddlers make the game worse off - for me, in Sims 2, they have become one of the most enjoyable things to do - maybe because it's still a challenge after 15 years. But I do know that ALOT of simmers truly enjoy the life stage. It depends on how you play the game. Personally I never played the life stages just as a transportation to adult life - on the contrary, I would stay in every life stage until my 'story' for the sim in that life stage was complete according to my imagination and creativity. Sometimes I let things happen, sometimes I micro manage, but it was always fantastic to watch. I care deeply for every second of my sims 'lives', and doesn't see any part of it as transportation only. I want them to live complete, complicated, full virtual lives.
Allons-y!
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While I would like toddlers, I'm not one of the people who desperately need them. However, I do think aging feels weird in this game without them. If your family has many children, they all end up being in the same life stage for an abnormally weird period of time, ever on normal aging. I mean, at least this is how I feel. It isn't game breaking for me though.
I feel the same as Jessa. Not game breaking for me, but it's kinda cringy watching a 7-year-old front flip out of a bassinet like "ta-da! I've come to leave empty milk glasses everywhere and say messed up things to my parents who don't scold me for it!" Like... C'mon Maxis. C'mon EA. You let this 🐸🐸🐸🐸 through the floodgates. How do you not see that and go "Ooo... That's not normal." And it's not even okay in a sim universe sense, either! We've always had quirky sims. It's what makes their world so enjoyable. This? This is not wacky. This is lazy. I'm POSITIVE they could have implemented another life stage if they'd sit down and work on it instead of a million new packs that are only masking the issue.
"What's the fascination with partying?", one might ask EA. You shouldn't even have to ask why people are upset about a major life stage not being in a life simulator game.
The Sims is no longer a life simulator. It's a party simulator. And a bad one at that.
Because after you have built a house been to the party got to work had a day in the spa gone in the hot tub made ice cream had a bbq what else is there to do apart from start all over without toddlers there is no storey just the same things with toddlers you need to make time to do those things while bringing up a family it gives me a challenge and as many have said toddlers are a challenge as they are in real life hence life simulater i enoyed toddlers since the beginning and anybody who says that in the sims 2 toddlers didnt excite them is a lie i need toddlers back if not then there is just no point in calling this game the sims it is more like a modded version of simcity
I really don't understand why you have to start a topic with this question because you can already read the answers everywhere (there's one particular and very lively topic in the feedback section that reached 800 pages a while ago where people share their thoughts about them).
Previous topics did cover that people really want them and were upset at them not being present but none covered what people were doing with them that made them such a desired game element. I wanted to better understand what was taken away. From this topic, I gather people want toddlers for a more complete simulation, but few enjoyed them. I guess its one of those game features where it makes the game worse off and yet, a more complete experience. Sort of like Dead Rising's save system.
Here's a quote from me, back in March, responding to a thread titled, "What's so special about Toddlers?"
For me, multiple life stages are what makes the game an enjoyable life simulator for me. Going from infant to child with no stage between is an odd disconnect for me, and negatively impacts my enjoyment.
When I play TS2, I use the toddler stage as a strong foundation for building an awesome sim. The learning to walk, talk, & potty is tedious, yes. But a hit of the smart milk can help with that. One thing I read once is that the increased speed in learning from the smart milk sticks around to some degree once the "glow" has worn off. So it's not too difficult to have a toddler with a fair start in skill points when they age to child. I set up a play area with each toy and the pet bed for them to nap. I have found that certain personalities learn certain skills faster. I had twin toddlers, one with low playful points (2) and the other with high playful (6). The low playful toddler seemed more inclined to head for the block toy and ended up with 5 logic points by the time she aged to child. The high playful toddler loved playing on the xylophone and ended up with 5 creativity points.
Then there's the cute factor. I like to play out the stories in my head, even if I never share them with anyone. So I love the "aw" factor of an older sim snuggling a toddler and giving them a kiss. I also think it's cute as can be when they reach out and give the family pet a big, squishy hug.
It has been explained why players enjoy the life stage and why they want it back. You just have to look for the posts.
I suffered through toddlers in TS3, sort of like in real life. I find the transition from baby to child too abrupt and, like others have said, having only two stages for children beyond babies results in families with lots of children or teens, all seemingly the same age.
You could see in Sims 2 how much care and attention went into creating the toddler life stage. Someone had observed real toddlers closely and recreated that life stage in a very cute, affectionate, funny, detailed way.
I wouldn't say that I play primarily for families, I get too bored focusing on any one thing at a time, and yes, as far as I am concerned you could leave out the life stage altogether EXCEPT that it was so beautifully done that it was the best simulation in Sims 2, which is saying a lot because that was a fantastic game.
To me, the omission of toddlers in Sims 4 would be fine if it had been replaced by something new, like a really detailed middle age life stage (long overdue in the Sims series). But that didn't happen, and Sims 4 also makes the teen life stage irrelevant. It's no wonder people get angry about it. It's become a symbol of all the losses in the series because it's the biggest loss in terms of simulation.
The toddler stage is important just like it is in real life. Say you have a baby, would you really want to see your baby just jump to a child? I think most people would say no or be freaked out if that happen because they missed a chunk of their kids life. In other words, we are missing a chunk of gameplay. It just looks silly to see baby jump out of a bassinet to a child, plus toddlers give the game somewhat of challenge. How would your sims's kid learn how to walk, talk, etc. when they were never taught? you learn all of that during toddlers years. I also like having families with the kids being different ages, just like the way it is in the real life. I feel that by not caring shows or gives EA and other companies an excuse to rip/remove features from their games, not caring could mean other playstyles could be on the choping block next if they continue to make another sims game. Then all the people who didn't care will be in the same boat as us..what im trying to get at is that we should care that features are being removed even if we don't play with them as often. We all have to think of other simmers and their playstyles. I love all the life stages even though young adult is my most played life stage or were i start off. All life stages makes the game feel a lot more complete.
I've been reading the forum for the past couple of weeks and it seems that people are really fixated by the lack of Toddlers in The Sims 4. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting them. Not trying to cause a debate. Talking for myself, I never really enjoyed that stage. In fact, I rather hated it and in The Sims 3, I would set the age so the toddler stage was as short as possible.
My question is, besides the fact that they are missing and fidelity of the simulation; What is the fascination with toddlers? What did everyone do with them in the previous games that added to the enjoyment of those games?
TS2 toddlers were my enjoyment. TS3 ones were a bit annoying, but still better than nothing.
I've been reading the forum for the past couple of weeks and it seems that people are really fixated by the lack of Toddlers in The Sims 4. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting them. Not trying to cause a debate. Talking for myself, I never really enjoyed that stage. In fact, I rather hated it and in The Sims 3, I would set the age so the toddler stage was as short as possible.
My question is, besides the fact that they are missing and fidelity of the simulation; What is the fascination with toddlers? What did everyone do with them in the previous games that added to the enjoyment of those games?
Only speaking for myself.
Apart from it just being odd that a life stage is missing from newborn to elder, I liked being able to recreate my real life family, as I'm a mum with very young kids - namely - toddlers It's kind of fun to be able to incorporate them in my family gameplay.
"What's the fascination with partying?", one might ask EA. You shouldn't even have to ask why people are upset about a major life stage not being in a life simulator game.
The Sims is no longer a life simulator. It's a party simulator. And a bad one at that.
The sad thing is, TS3 had better party stuff, in fact, it covered all play styles without favouring one more than another
A chunk of gameplay was gone when toddlers were removed. Interactions/Roleplay options were no longer there, killing quality immersion we had before. As others have said, they stripped some core fun interactions with toddlers in the Sims 3 but at least you still had the toddlers. In the Sims 4 you now have a baby who transforms into a kid who then transforms into a teenager who is indistinguishable from a young adult in appearance.
In other words in the Sims 4 we have gotten less, and for simmers who have played the game since TS2 ( in some cases even TS1) there's an understandable feeling of being short changed.
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Good point, I never thought of it this way, maybe I am beginning to see what the brew ha ha is all about. I really do not care one way or the other, but sometimes, the drama of not having them gets a bit ridiculous and I think that is where I find the whole argument a bit hard to believe. When someone puts it in this kind of perspective, not "oh! I can't play the game" I see it more as a loss for them, here I see it as a loss for all. Thank you for the clarification.
There is really so much that could have been added to the stage. Not only skill building, but personality building. Say tots who play with blocks have interests in logic and mechanics. They could have handiness traits that would boost building or upgrading objects later in life. Tots that do a lot of art projects could have creative traits that would boost their painting skill and make them more likely to paint masterpieces later in life. Traits COULD actually mean something in this game.
Throw in some actual parenting, too. The way I imagined TS4 was like this: Two families each have a baby. Family one has two working parents. They don't get to spend much time with their baby. Family 2's dad is working while mom stays home. Both families love their child. Family 1's tot discovers a lot about the world on his own. He gets into mischief unintentionally, but his nanny is quick to correct it. Mom and dad take their queue from the nanny and reinforce the discipline when they are home. The toddler is learning to be good through corrective discipline (like pets in previous games). Family 2's tot is guided through much of the day. It's structured and focused on skill building. He spends most of his time with mom. However, the times when mom is away, the tot likes to get into trouble. His nanny doesn't correct him and little by little, his personality changes to become more rebellious. Mom and dad also don't correct the behavior and he is learning to do bad things (like pets in previous games). To me, this is the foundation for the rest of a sims life. I imagined this stuff happening in previous games, but I really would like to see something like this implemented into the core of it. It's important to me. It makes no sense to have "evil" sims who have had a good life and have no reason to be evil. I like continuity, not just the "weirder stories" and lolz.
I liked them in my game but when I'd read stories in the sims 3 forums there were a lot of people saying that toddlers were annoying and disliked them. They grew them up right away. I personally take my time growing my sims up.
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There is something special about seeing a Sim grow, progress, and fail throughout their entire lifetime. To skip an entire life stage takes away from the believability of that Sims life.
No.
I really don't understand why you have to start a topic with this question because you can already read the answers everywhere (there's one particular and very lively topic in the feedback section that reached 800 pages a while ago where people share their thoughts about them).
Anyway, what I do with them: in the first place I enjoy their very existence because I like to have that family feel in the game. For me that feeling's completely lacking when a ten year old jumps out of its bassinet and it's so utterly silly that's even in the game, that nobody should have to explain why imo. Not to people who claim they like playing the Sims that is.
Apart from that: I teach them how to walk and talk (and I always use the parents and siblings for that, never the playpen or the walking.. thing (what's it called) because it's important to me family members connect with their little ones), I pottytrain them, i give them books to read, their parents take them for a walk and they play with them (there are several interactions and items in the game for that). And then, after six days, they grow up to be a ten year old and that feels completely natural. The whole family has had enough time to bond with the little new citizen (instead of having a baby born doll tied in its bassinet in the corner of the house).
Because of this.
PS, Do not let your RL munchkins sleep in the bed with u per safety.
Previous topics did cover that people really want them and were upset at them not being present but none covered what people were doing with them that made them such a desired game element. I wanted to better understand what was taken away. From this topic, I gather people want toddlers for a more complete simulation, but few enjoyed them. I guess its one of those game features where it makes the game worse off and yet, a more complete experience. Sort of like Dead Rising's save system.
I feel the same as Jessa. Not game breaking for me, but it's kinda cringy watching a 7-year-old front flip out of a bassinet like "ta-da! I've come to leave empty milk glasses everywhere and say messed up things to my parents who don't scold me for it!" Like... C'mon Maxis. C'mon EA. You let this 🐸🐸🐸🐸 through the floodgates. How do you not see that and go "Ooo... That's not normal." And it's not even okay in a sim universe sense, either! We've always had quirky sims. It's what makes their world so enjoyable. This? This is not wacky. This is lazy. I'm POSITIVE they could have implemented another life stage if they'd sit down and work on it instead of a million new packs that are only masking the issue.
Woah. Sorry. Rant over.
The Sims is no longer a life simulator. It's a party simulator. And a bad one at that.
Here's a quote from me, back in March, responding to a thread titled, "What's so special about Toddlers?"
It has been explained why players enjoy the life stage and why they want it back. You just have to look for the posts.
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Good points
and welcome to the forums
I wouldn't say that I play primarily for families, I get too bored focusing on any one thing at a time, and yes, as far as I am concerned you could leave out the life stage altogether EXCEPT that it was so beautifully done that it was the best simulation in Sims 2, which is saying a lot because that was a fantastic game.
To me, the omission of toddlers in Sims 4 would be fine if it had been replaced by something new, like a really detailed middle age life stage (long overdue in the Sims series). But that didn't happen, and Sims 4 also makes the teen life stage irrelevant. It's no wonder people get angry about it. It's become a symbol of all the losses in the series because it's the biggest loss in terms of simulation.
TS2 toddlers were my enjoyment. TS3 ones were a bit annoying, but still better than nothing.
Only speaking for myself.
Apart from it just being odd that a life stage is missing from newborn to elder, I liked being able to recreate my real life family, as I'm a mum with very young kids - namely - toddlers
The sad thing is, TS3 had better party stuff, in fact, it covered all play styles without favouring one more than another
In other words in the Sims 4 we have gotten less, and for simmers who have played the game since TS2 ( in some cases even TS1) there's an understandable feeling of being short changed.