As I know in Russia, TS4 is A/PEGI 18 rated because of LGBT+. That rating is only a suggestion. In my opinion TS4 should be M/PEGI 16 rated and have more jucy elements. I'm sure that the most of community are 16+. The rest of community probably will ignore that rating. But in other hand, EA is too restrictive in T/Pegi 12 rating where they can do more.
I've just found this:
In the US, The Sims 4 was rated Teen (13+). The respective content characteristics are below:
“Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.” Out of all the above, The Sims 4 features only “explicit sexual content of moderate impact.”
In Australia, the game was rated М (Mature) (“the game might contain violence and nudity of moderate impact”). That means The Sims 4 is recommended to children over 15 but is not prohibited for purchase by children under 15. The right to decide whether the content is appropriate for a child belongs to parents.
In Europe, PEGI rated The Sims 4 as 12+. This category tolerates non-graphic violence and nudity, and bad language in this category must be mild and fall short of sexual expletives
Germany decided to bypass PEGI and rated the game as 6+. In Germany, age-based ratings mostly consider violence. In fact, there is no explicit and graphic violence in The Sims 4, besides an opportunity to kill-off the character. At the same time, the death won’t be depicted realistically and the game does not display blood.
In Australia, the sims is technically rated M15+, so I guess it technically falls in a "T" for Teen rating and given that TS4 is the most watered-down and kid-friendly irritation of The Sims franchise, I feel it shouldn't even be rated M rather it should be downgraded to PG due to the semi-sexual humour and references to alcohol. (because that's how most older children's films get PG ratings because of a single sware/curse word in the entire film and some extremely mild violence)
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
Some of the topics lately on this discussion forum has me thinking of maybe starting a Sims 4 support group. There's a lot of anger and resentment in the world right now, and the sims 4 is becoming a controversial game to play. Some people seem to be using the game as a place to vent, others seem to be using it as a safe haven, while others fighting for freedom of will and Rights.
One one hand, I agree that toggles would solves a lot of problems. We could simply say yes to things we are comfortable with, and no to the things we are not. Everyone wins (seemingly).
On the other hand, I still have to admit that toggles won't completely fix the current issues. Having the option to toggle something off in the game won't resolve the issue, or argument of the function existing in the first place. Sure, we can turn it off, but for some simmers, they may still be offended that there is an option to turn such an idea on.... that the game, does allow for the support, or promotion of such a feature.
In short, the toggles may be seen, or adopted, as a short-term resolve that does little more than mask the real issue of what does the game actually promote - though behind some clever scripting.
Though i'm on board with the idea of being able to freely play the game the way I am comfortable, I have to be careful to not have my gameplay interest be the cause of someone else's ability to also have that same freedom. If I am confortable with a particular game function, I should be able to use that function despite others not liking it. After all, its my game to play so just let me play it. But adopting this freedom while knowing the particular function I am defending .... for "me".... does, and perhaps, fairly.... make others feel uncomfortable.... what do I do with that?
Its difficult, if not impossible, to create a game for everyone. But in today's world, as judged by current events (and of late), we need to do a better job of searching for a happy medium.
This constant going back and forth blaming others for infringing our our lives in some way, IMO, isn't getting any of us anywhere.
And to again play devil's advocate.... maybe the problem (for example) isn't that burglars isn't in the sims game, but rather that, there are still people in the world who would still support this type of behavior, even in.... just a game. People who think it's funny to light sims on fire, or drown them in a pool. Is the problem our ability to have, or not have, these gameplay options, or is the problem more so that some simmers are actually entertained (to some degree) by this behavior? What is the real problem here?
Blame is like a basketball. Once thrown, it will bounce all over the place with the potential to hit a lot of people. If we're ever to have a better game for all of us, we need to stop throwing the ball. (easier said than done I know). But we have to start somewhere.
Some of the topics lately on this discussion forum has me thinking of maybe starting a Sims 4 support group. There's a lot of anger and resentment in the world right now, and the sims 4 is becoming a controversial game to play. Some people seem to be using the game as a place to vent, others seem to be using it as a safe haven, while others fighting for freedom of will and Rights.
One one hand, I agree that toggles would solves a lot of problems. We could simply say yes to things we are comfortable with, and no to the things we are not. Everyone wins (seemingly).
On the other hand, I still have to admit that toggles won't completely fix the current issues. Having the option to toggle something off in the game won't resolve the issue, or argument of the function existing in the first place. Sure, we can turn it off, but for some simmers, they may still be offended that there is an option to turn such an idea on.... that the game, does allow for the support, or promotion of such a feature.
In short, the toggles may be seen, or adopted, as a short-term resolve that does little more than mask the real issue of what does the game actually promote - though behind some clever scripting.
Though i'm on board with the idea of being able to freely play the game the way I am comfortable, I have to be careful to not have my gameplay interest be the cause of someone else's ability to also have that same freedom. If I am confortable with a particular game function, I should be able to use that function despite others not liking it. After all, its my game to play so just let me play it. But adopting this freedom while knowing the particular function I am defending .... for "me".... does, and perhaps, fairly.... make others feel uncomfortable.... what do I do with that?
Its difficult, if not impossible, to create a game for everyone. But in today's world, as judged by current events (and of late), we need to do a better job of searching for a happy medium.
This constant going back and forth blaming others for infringing our our lives in some way, IMO, isn't getting any of us anywhere.
And to again play devil's advocate.... maybe the problem (for example) isn't that burglars isn't in the sims game, but rather that, there are still people in the world who would still support this type of behavior, even in.... just a game. People who think it's funny to light sims on fire, or drown them in a pool. Is the problem our ability to have, or not have, these gameplay options, or is the problem more so that some simmers are actually entertained (to some degree) by this behavior? What is the real problem here?
Blame is like a basketball. Once thrown, it will bounce all over the place with the potential to hit a lot of people. If we're ever to have a better game for all of us, we need to stop throwing the ball. (easier said than done I know). But we have to start somewhere.
I would say that the actual problem is naivete. Why should it bother someone if some other player likes deviant play? What someone does in their game has no correlation whatsoever to what they do in real life. It's a game. It's complete fiction. It's an escape from reality. Just because it's a (loosely interpreted) life simulator doesn't mean it's an accurate representation of what people do in reality, that's just absurd. Even some of the developers are deviant players. There have been live streams run by Sim Guru Morgan who had Sim versions of the devs and ran a tournament to kill them all off and see who was the survivor in the end. It was funny and no one got insulted by that. Why should they? It says absolutely nothing about how she treats her fellows or how she thinks of them.
This is why the social justice outrage needs to be brushed off. Companies involved in the arts and entertainment industries need to start pushing back because it's becoming an hysteria the likes that hasn't been seen since the Salem witch trials. Are people so ignorant that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and fiction? That concerns me more than any of these complaints do. And, like others have pointed out, it's very U.S.-centric. For a game claiming to be striving to be more worldly they certainly do bend too quickly to immature American ideals regurgitated from a cancel culture who lacks wisdom.
I acknowledge that the devs are in a tight spot with this. But I think what they need to start doing is pulling away from the assurances that make the game too personal to the players, make them seem like they're our buddies, and start taking a more neutral and professional stance about the game. They should start stressing more that the game is international, that they have one of the most diverse communities not only in culture, but in play styles, preferences, ages and experiences. They should stress that they will continue to strive to create a game where every player can play their own way by leaving choices in the players' hands. That it's not up to them to police us, it's not up to the community to police each other, and it's not up to the Game Changers to dictate the content, only to give suggestions. They should state that they will remain open to ideas from everyone and do the best they can but are unable to make specific promises. That they want to stay true to the integrity of The Sims brand and to do this means that sometimes people will get the gameplay they want, while other times they won't. Maybe they can start doing content polls or community Kit votes to keep people engaged. But I think they need to stop making snap judgements and quick responses every time someone tries to make a controversy. Maybe they should start pulling away from Twitter exchanges and tighten their responses, change the wording of something if it sounds scandalous, but don't remove features over it.
There will be no game left, nothing to simulate if they continue on this path to scrambling to nerf everything that gets a complaint. Because the crazy thing is, a lot of these same people who push to cancel features are also constantly criticizing the game for being dull and, ironically, lifeless.
Some of the topics lately on this discussion forum has me thinking of maybe starting a Sims 4 support group. There's a lot of anger and resentment in the world right now, and the sims 4 is becoming a controversial game to play. Some people seem to be using the game as a place to vent, others seem to be using it as a safe haven, while others fighting for freedom of will and Rights.
One one hand, I agree that toggles would solves a lot of problems. We could simply say yes to things we are comfortable with, and no to the things we are not. Everyone wins (seemingly).
On the other hand, I still have to admit that toggles won't completely fix the current issues. Having the option to toggle something off in the game won't resolve the issue, or argument of the function existing in the first place. Sure, we can turn it off, but for some simmers, they may still be offended that there is an option to turn such an idea on.... that the game, does allow for the support, or promotion of such a feature.
In short, the toggles may be seen, or adopted, as a short-term resolve that does little more than mask the real issue of what does the game actually promote - though behind some clever scripting.
Though i'm on board with the idea of being able to freely play the game the way I am comfortable, I have to be careful to not have my gameplay interest be the cause of someone else's ability to also have that same freedom. If I am confortable with a particular game function, I should be able to use that function despite others not liking it. After all, its my game to play so just let me play it. But adopting this freedom while knowing the particular function I am defending .... for "me".... does, and perhaps, fairly.... make others feel uncomfortable.... what do I do with that?
Its difficult, if not impossible, to create a game for everyone. But in today's world, as judged by current events (and of late), we need to do a better job of searching for a happy medium.
This constant going back and forth blaming others for infringing our our lives in some way, IMO, isn't getting any of us anywhere.
And to again play devil's advocate.... maybe the problem (for example) isn't that burglars isn't in the sims game, but rather that, there are still people in the world who would still support this type of behavior, even in.... just a game. People who think it's funny to light sims on fire, or drown them in a pool. Is the problem our ability to have, or not have, these gameplay options, or is the problem more so that some simmers are actually entertained (to some degree) by this behavior? What is the real problem here?
Blame is like a basketball. Once thrown, it will bounce all over the place with the potential to hit a lot of people. If we're ever to have a better game for all of us, we need to stop throwing the ball. (easier said than done I know). But we have to start somewhere.
I would say that the actual problem is naivete. Why should it bother someone if some other player likes deviant play? What someone does in their game has no correlation whatsoever to what they do in real life. It's a game. It's complete fiction. It's an escape from reality. Just because it's a (loosely interpreted) life simulator doesn't mean it's an accurate representation of what people do in reality, that's just absurd. Even some of the developers are deviant players. There have been live streams run by Sim Guru Morgan who had Sim versions of the devs and ran a tournament to kill them all off and see who was the survivor in the end. It was funny and no one got insulted by that. Why should they? It says absolutely nothing about how she treats her fellows or how she thinks of them.
This is why the social justice outrage needs to be brushed off. Companies involved in the arts and entertainment industries need to start pushing back because it's becoming an hysteria the likes that hasn't been seen since the Salem witch trials. Are people so ignorant that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and fiction? That concerns me more than any of these complaints do. And, like others have pointed out, it's very U.S.-centric. For a game claiming to be striving to be more worldly they certainly do bend too quickly to immature American ideals regurgitated from a cancel culture who lacks wisdom.
I acknowledge that the devs are in a tight spot with this. But I think what they need to start doing is pulling away from the assurances that make the game too personal to the players, make them seem like they're our buddies, and start taking a more neutral and professional stance about the game. They should start stressing more that the game is international, that they have one of the most diverse communities not only in culture, but in play styles, preferences, ages and experiences. They should stress that they will continue to strive to create a game where every player can play their own way by leaving choices in the players' hands. That it's not up to them to police us, it's not up to the community to police each other, and it's not up to the Game Changers to dictate the content, only to give suggestions. They should state that they will remain open to ideas from everyone and do the best they can but are unable to make specific promises. That they want to stay true to the integrity of The Sims brand and to do this means that sometimes people will get the gameplay they want, while other times they won't. Maybe they can start doing content polls or community Kit votes to keep people engaged. But I think they need to stop making snap judgements and quick responses every time someone tries to make a controversy. Maybe they should start pulling away from Twitter exchanges and tighten their responses, change the wording of something if it sounds scandalous, but don't remove features over it.
There will be no game left, nothing to simulate if they continue on this path to scrambling to nerf everything that gets a complaint. Because the crazy thing is, a lot of these same people who push to cancel features are also constantly criticizing the game for being dull and, ironically, lifeless.
What i'm seeing from different events happening currently in the world is that we are at a tug of war between 2 major ideologies.
1 side is fighting against the ability to freely adopt negative ideals, from flaming people on social media to gender/race inequality... which to this type of argument can include lighting sims on fire in the sims game.
The other side is trying to protect one's freedom to continue adopting these negativities using defenses such as .... "free speech", and, "if it hurts no one then".
The root goal of this tug of war (as far as I can see it) is the rebranding of our very own thinking as a evolutionary specie. To instill a brand new mindset where people begin, through time, to not accept these activities as being part of the norm.
Yes, it is a fair argument that what you do in your game is none of my business, and why should I even have an opinion concerning anything you do in your game when I likely won't even at any time witness it. I agree with you.
But, to allow you to continue to adopt these negativities as an individual, to say nothing about you, or others having these interests, does nothing to fight the current mindset that the current events are trying to fight. Why should you, or anyone, be provided a platform, even for their own private entertainment, to light sims on fire, or drown sims in a pool. Even if it doesn't hurt anyone, or even if nobody will ever find out long enough to be bothered by it, why should anyone be give a platform to explore such activities?
Some of the topics lately on this discussion forum has me thinking of maybe starting a Sims 4 support group. There's a lot of anger and resentment in the world right now, and the sims 4 is becoming a controversial game to play. Some people seem to be using the game as a place to vent, others seem to be using it as a safe haven, while others fighting for freedom of will and Rights.
One one hand, I agree that toggles would solves a lot of problems. We could simply say yes to things we are comfortable with, and no to the things we are not. Everyone wins (seemingly).
On the other hand, I still have to admit that toggles won't completely fix the current issues. Having the option to toggle something off in the game won't resolve the issue, or argument of the function existing in the first place. Sure, we can turn it off, but for some simmers, they may still be offended that there is an option to turn such an idea on.... that the game, does allow for the support, or promotion of such a feature.
In short, the toggles may be seen, or adopted, as a short-term resolve that does little more than mask the real issue of what does the game actually promote - though behind some clever scripting.
Though i'm on board with the idea of being able to freely play the game the way I am comfortable, I have to be careful to not have my gameplay interest be the cause of someone else's ability to also have that same freedom. If I am confortable with a particular game function, I should be able to use that function despite others not liking it. After all, its my game to play so just let me play it. But adopting this freedom while knowing the particular function I am defending .... for "me".... does, and perhaps, fairly.... make others feel uncomfortable.... what do I do with that?
Its difficult, if not impossible, to create a game for everyone. But in today's world, as judged by current events (and of late), we need to do a better job of searching for a happy medium.
This constant going back and forth blaming others for infringing our our lives in some way, IMO, isn't getting any of us anywhere.
And to again play devil's advocate.... maybe the problem (for example) isn't that burglars isn't in the sims game, but rather that, there are still people in the world who would still support this type of behavior, even in.... just a game. People who think it's funny to light sims on fire, or drown them in a pool. Is the problem our ability to have, or not have, these gameplay options, or is the problem more so that some simmers are actually entertained (to some degree) by this behavior? What is the real problem here?
Blame is like a basketball. Once thrown, it will bounce all over the place with the potential to hit a lot of people. If we're ever to have a better game for all of us, we need to stop throwing the ball. (easier said than done I know). But we have to start somewhere.
I would say that the actual problem is naivete. Why should it bother someone if some other player likes deviant play? What someone does in their game has no correlation whatsoever to what they do in real life. It's a game. It's complete fiction. It's an escape from reality. Just because it's a (loosely interpreted) life simulator doesn't mean it's an accurate representation of what people do in reality, that's just absurd. Even some of the developers are deviant players. There have been live streams run by Sim Guru Morgan who had Sim versions of the devs and ran a tournament to kill them all off and see who was the survivor in the end. It was funny and no one got insulted by that. Why should they? It says absolutely nothing about how she treats her fellows or how she thinks of them.
This is why the social justice outrage needs to be brushed off. Companies involved in the arts and entertainment industries need to start pushing back because it's becoming an hysteria the likes that hasn't been seen since the Salem witch trials. Are people so ignorant that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and fiction? That concerns me more than any of these complaints do. And, like others have pointed out, it's very U.S.-centric. For a game claiming to be striving to be more worldly they certainly do bend too quickly to immature American ideals regurgitated from a cancel culture who lacks wisdom.
I acknowledge that the devs are in a tight spot with this. But I think what they need to start doing is pulling away from the assurances that make the game too personal to the players, make them seem like they're our buddies, and start taking a more neutral and professional stance about the game. They should start stressing more that the game is international, that they have one of the most diverse communities not only in culture, but in play styles, preferences, ages and experiences. They should stress that they will continue to strive to create a game where every player can play their own way by leaving choices in the players' hands. That it's not up to them to police us, it's not up to the community to police each other, and it's not up to the Game Changers to dictate the content, only to give suggestions. They should state that they will remain open to ideas from everyone and do the best they can but are unable to make specific promises. That they want to stay true to the integrity of The Sims brand and to do this means that sometimes people will get the gameplay they want, while other times they won't. Maybe they can start doing content polls or community Kit votes to keep people engaged. But I think they need to stop making snap judgements and quick responses every time someone tries to make a controversy. Maybe they should start pulling away from Twitter exchanges and tighten their responses, change the wording of something if it sounds scandalous, but don't remove features over it.
There will be no game left, nothing to simulate if they continue on this path to scrambling to nerf everything that gets a complaint. Because the crazy thing is, a lot of these same people who push to cancel features are also constantly criticizing the game for being dull and, ironically, lifeless.
What i'm seeing from different events happening currently in the world is that we are at a tug of war between 2 major ideologies.
1 side is fighting against the ability to freely adopt negative ideals, from flaming people on social media to gender/race inequality... which to this type of argument can include lighting sims on fire in the sims game.
The other side is trying to protect one's freedom to continue adopting these negativities using defenses such as .... "free speech", and, "if it hurts no one then".
The root goal of this tug of war (as far as I can see it) is the rebranding of our very own thinking as a evolutionary specie. To instill a brand new mindset where people begin, through time, to not accept these activities as being part of the norm.
Yes, it is a fair argument that what you do in your game is none of my business, and why should I even have an opinion concerning anything you do in your game when I likely won't even at any time witness it. I agree with you.
But, to allow you to continue to adopt these negativities as an individual, to say nothing about you, or others having these interests, does nothing to fight the current mindset that the current events are trying to fight. Why should you, or anyone, be provided a platform, even for their own private entertainment, to light sims on fire, or drown sims in a pool. Even if it doesn't hurt anyone, or even if nobody will ever find out long enough to be bothered by it, why should anyone be give a platform to explore such activities?
Well, if Games Producers do what some want them to do I can see the end of all games requiring shooting, robbery, killings and war which will bring the whole of the gaming world to a halt and we would be faced with football games for ever more.
Well I think the day has come Sims has reached its uncanny valley phase. Do that mean we get better and more realistic looking Sims now and with modern graphics?
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Well I think the day has come Sims has reached its uncanny valley phase. Do that mean we get better and more realistic looking Sims now and with modern graphics?
I hope so! Some things that I would like to see in the game are hair and clothing animation along with height sliders. And one that I will not mention here because some people might take it the wrong way. Hair and clothing animation is really important because right now there's basically no animation to any amount for either in the game. The sim's hair is so stiff in the game right to the point that the sims all look like they have all gone for dip in an Olympic size swimming pool filled with hairspray. And their clothes are so stiff to the point that it's looks like all the sims in the game had made their clothes out of carboard.
Well I think the day has come Sims has reached its uncanny valley phase. Do that mean we get better and more realistic looking Sims now and with modern graphics?
I hope so! Some things that I would like to see in the game are hair and clothing animation along with height sliders. And one that I will not mention here because some people might take it the wrong way. Hair and clothing animation is really important because right now there's basically no animation to any amount for either in the game. The sim's hair is so stiff in the game right to the point that the sims all look like they have all gone for dip in an Olympic size swimming pool filled with hairspray. And their clothes are so stiff to the point that it's looks like all the sims in the game had made their clothes out of carboard.
I would love hair and clothes animation too. I noticed Paralives will have hair animations. I agree about the clothes being stiff. Reminds me of those laundry commercials.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Well I think the day has come Sims has reached its uncanny valley phase. Do that mean we get better and more realistic looking Sims now and with modern graphics?
I hope so! Some things that I would like to see in the game are hair and clothing animation along with height sliders. And one that I will not mention here because some people might take it the wrong way. Hair and clothing animation is really important because right now there's basically no animation to any amount for either in the game. The sim's hair is so stiff in the game right to the point that the sims all look like they have all gone for dip in an Olympic size swimming pool filled with hairspray. And their clothes are so stiff to the point that it's looks like all the sims in the game had made their clothes out of carboard.
I would love hair and clothes animation too. I noticed Paralives will have hair animations. I agree about the clothes being stiff. Reminds me of those laundry commercials.
Calgon' Ancient Chinese Secret!
Conan Exiles also has hair and clothing animation.
Also, I’ve come up with a solution that might seem less “creepy” to the offended folks: whenever ANY sim is Dazed, regardless of their trait, they’ll have a risk (maybe like 40% or something) to impregnate/conceive children after an accepted (i.e., consented) woohoo. This way, it can be interpreted as mindlessness of protection due to the Dazed emotion.
Also, I’ve come up with a solution that might seem less “creepy” to the offended folks: whenever ANY sim is Dazed, regardless of their trait, they’ll have a risk (maybe like 40% or something) to impregnate/conceive children after an accepted (i.e., consented) woohoo. This way, it can be interpreted as mindlessness of protection due to the Dazed emotion.
I think I would be ok with that. Because Sims do get dazed when they drink a lot too. Neat thing about MCCC you get to see the default percentages of pregnancy happening in the game.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I'm reminded of Will Wright's quip in regards to Sims 2 including "Wants and Fears" and the very real possibility of aspiration failure (especially in the hands of a sadistic player.)
He said the design "allows players to explore the failure state." You can still do this in Sims 4, but it's severely nerfed, and while I like the idea of making everything a toggle to make it easier for players who don't want certain things in their game to easily opt out (looking at you, alien abductions, which are a layer of weirdness that doesn't fit my playstyle at all), it's fun to explore things like making a Hates Children sim raise a kid. Especially since when I did it (even making the Hates Children sim a single mom!), it felt like a real character-building exercise for her when she bonded with and ended up loving the heck out of that kid.
(he/him)
And remember this above all. Our Roman gods are watching. Make sure they are not ashamed!
My NBA site, Pace and Space
SAME. The Sims 4, from its gameplay to its marketing, is aimed at a younger audience. That sucks for me since I've been playing Sims 1 since I was a kid and I'm in my 20's now. I honestly think we baby our kids too much in the west but that's a topic for a whole different conversation lol.
There's not enough negative consequences or even unforeseen tragedies in the same. Everything is so easy. You can't even get robbed anymore, since burglars don't exist.
I'm reminded of Will Wright's quip in regards to Sims 2 including "Wants and Fears" and the very real possibility of aspiration failure (especially in the hands of a sadistic player.)
He said the design "allows players to explore the failure state." You can still do this in Sims 4, but it's severely nerfed, and while I like the idea of making everything a toggle to make it easier for players who don't want certain things in their game to easily opt out (looking at you, alien abductions, which are a layer of weirdness that doesn't fit my playstyle at all), it's fun to explore things like making a Hates Children sim raise a kid. Especially since when I did it (even making the Hates Children sim a single mom!), it felt like a real character-building exercise for her when she bonded with and ended up loving the heck out of that kid.
As a person who suffered from a Major Depression and only been recovering since the past year, The aspiration failures are like Depression. Kinda like when you wanted to live your life to the fullest but you can't because of external causes (e.g. Abuse, Events, and etc.) to the point that you start regretting your life and wanted to start a new one. (In a negative way). That is like the Aspiration Failure in The Sims 2. Sims are extremely sad, they become so much insane because of their failures in life, and a Therapist have to "Cure" them.
I suffered Depression but I never find it Offensive when I played The Sims 2. Rather I find it amusing that the games mirrors life to the point that I learned so much of Human behavior and psychology, the reason why I am studying psychology right now.....
I bet if The Sims 2 was released today it will be cut.
I'm reminded of Will Wright's quip in regards to Sims 2 including "Wants and Fears" and the very real possibility of aspiration failure (especially in the hands of a sadistic player.)
He said the design "allows players to explore the failure state." You can still do this in Sims 4, but it's severely nerfed, and while I like the idea of making everything a toggle to make it easier for players who don't want certain things in their game to easily opt out (looking at you, alien abductions, which are a layer of weirdness that doesn't fit my playstyle at all), it's fun to explore things like making a Hates Children sim raise a kid. Especially since when I did it (even making the Hates Children sim a single mom!), it felt like a real character-building exercise for her when she bonded with and ended up loving the heck out of that kid.
As a person who suffered from a Major Depression and only been recovering since the past year, The aspiration failures are like Depression. Kinda like when you wanted to live your life to the fullest but you can't because of external causes (e.g. Abuse, Events, and etc.) to the point that you start regretting your life and wanted to start a new one. (In a negative way). That is like the Aspiration Failure in The Sims 2. Sims are extremely sad, they become so much insane because of their failures in life, and a Therapist have to "Cure" them.
I suffered Depression but I never find it Offensive when I played The Sims 2. Rather I find it amusing that the games mirrors life to the point that I learned so much of Human behavior and psychology, the reason why I am studying psychology right now.....
I bet if The Sims 2 was released today it will be cut.
Actually going through depression myself therapists actually encourage how to deal with failure and recognize our triggers. I do agree there is no cure. Sims games should not be a replacement for therapy or used as a babysitter. Education is important when purchasing games. Sims 2 I found realistic actually with depression because of wasn't a permanent cure even with that NPC. I actually wouldn't mind having a therapist in the game. I am glad there is a helpline at least in the Sims 4. I wish the game had wants and fears back too. Gerbsims would be a good Simmer for you to network with since she did a degree in it too and has very good discussions on mental health and self care.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Well, if Games Producers do what some want them to do I can see the end of all games requiring shooting, robbery, killings and war which will bring the whole of the gaming world to a halt and we would be faced with football games for ever more.
Censoring all the bad things from games and media would honestly just result in more bad things in real life and in real games
because it is human nature to sometimes get angry and stressed and worst of all bored and if they cant take it out on pixels or at least distract themselves from those feelings they will eventually take it out on real humans
coincidentally it is also why old men always wanna fight people over most random things you might consider to not be that big of a deal like packing your groceries too slowly
Did not read the whole thread cause it's really long, but in my mind, 'Woohoo' means using protection while 'Try for Baby' means not using protection, regardless of the Sims actually actively trying to have a baby or not.
So Sims who hate children may not normally want to have unprotected woohoo because of the implications of a possible pregnancy, but if they're dazed then they may not think about it too hard and just go for it.
That's how I see it. I do agree that the original wording sounded creepy, but I do get that it wasn't meant to simulate a 'lack of consent'.
Did not read the whole thread cause it's really long, but in my mind, 'Woohoo' means using protection while 'Try for Baby' means not using protection, regardless of the Sims actually actively trying to have a baby or not.
So Sims who hate children may not normally want to have unprotected woohoo because of the implications of a possible pregnancy, but if they're dazed then they may not think about it too hard and just go for it.
That's how I see it. I do agree that the original wording sounded creepy, but I do get that it wasn't meant to simulate a 'lack of consent'.
This is how I see it, too. Furthermore, no action in a game should ever have a 100% chance of failing, that's just bad design. Sims with the "Hates children" trait should not always reject "Try for baby", there should be an, however tiny, chance to persuade them.
Knowing a children hating sim will literally never accept Try for baby, if I needed one to have/make a baby for story reasons (inheritance, royal succession, species close to extinction or similar), I'd just move that sim in via Household Manegement (I'd probably not even bother with using the pie menu option) and then let this sim initiate the Try for baby interaction.
SAME. The Sims 4, from its gameplay to its marketing, is aimed at a younger audience. That sucks for me since I've been playing Sims 1 since I was a kid and I'm in my 20's now. I honestly think we baby our kids too much in the west but that's a topic for a whole different conversation lol.
There's not enough negative consequences or even unforeseen tragedies in the same. Everything is so easy. You can't even get robbed anymore, since burglars don't exist.
Sims 5 is going to be worse with this, far far worse. That's why I don't get why everyone wants it so bad. The way they are treating Sims 4 now with nerfing things that players find "inappropriate" is very telling of how S5 is going to be. Let S4 live on forever for all I care, it's probably the last iteration that will even still have somewhat "negative" traits or consequences.
I think a huge part of the problems with behavior from the Sims 4 is not nerfing or aiming for a younger audience. There's a reason why people can't seem to agree what exactly it is which is missing, what the previous games had, etc. It's almost intangible
When they created Sims 4, they did not consult behavior psychologists, or any type of expert in human behavior, when programming the AI/emotion system. They weren't trying to make realistic human reactions, and that is what actually makes the interactions feel like they're lacking. How do you begin to explore failure states or success states for sims when their reactions are not human?
If in Sims 5, if there is a Sims 5, they actually consult with some experts in human behavior and at least give the sims realistic reactions to various scenarios, it would make the game so much more fulfilling, even if it continues to be geared towards a younger audience.
The thing about this game is that it's a life simulator. But this simulator is different than that of a flight simulator that teaches pilots how deal with RL issue when flying an aircraft in RL. The Sims games are life simulators that's for sure. But it's not teaching us how to deal with RL situations. And it's not suppose to either. The game is just a form of entertainment and nothing more. And that's all the game suppose to be.
Ok, i'm going to play devil's advocate here, because, well, why not lol?
First of all, to those claiming that the sims is..... "just a game".... need to revisit all the politics the community brings into the sims world about race, gender equality, cultural norms, etc. If the sims is "just a game", then we need to stop working so hard to have the sims world a perfect, and major representative of our very own lives. The sims team has become politically correct because we keep bringing our daily issues into the sims game with us. We should be checking our dramas at the door so we all "can" be playing.... just a game.
If we, as a (sims) community can applaud the decision of updating skin tones in respect to African American people, and, applaud the decision of adding the option for transgender sims in respect to the LGBTQ community, then how is it we, as a community can have a ranting issue with the decision to better respect sexual consent and the way sexual activity is achieved in the sims game? ......
..... and that's not even addressing the bigger picture. How is it ok, that the sims, a major platform rated "teen", can promote to such an extent sexual activity to its audience. Is everyone here ok with the sims promoting sex to teens? But that's not today's topic......
...... The topic here is about sexual consent. Which to me, seems to be a bit of a redundant argument. How can we argue sexual consent in a game that doesn't allow for consensual awareness or abilities of any form.... whether it be about what they wear, eat, have a relationship with, and.... also sexual activity.
So what exactly is the argument here? Are we saying that we want our sims to be more autonomous? More free thinking? To have, and be aware of, their morals, preferences, life goals?
On the surface it can be argued that the only sims we should be able to control is ... our own. That "one" sim we create to represent ourself in the game. We control that sim. Every other sim should control themselves. I have zero control over my neighbors in real life, so why is it I have so much control over my neighbors in the sims? That's about the only way (off the top of my head) that would allow sims to be consensual. Or open the door to such.
Beneath that surface argument is.... we as sims players would lose our control of the game. We'd have world of sim characters running around doing whatever they wanted whether we like it or not. Not only would that pretty much destroy gameplay for storytellers, but the whole sandbox idea would go completely out the window.
However, as is, the sims game is being torn apart by our daily lives. If the sims game is ever going to be fairly credited as being "just a game", then at some point we have to stop making it a platform for race, gender equality, and..... sexual abuse issues.
Just saying.
Sims is a god game. You control everything, including reproduction. Unless you're using mods, there is absolutely no consent in the game beyond what the player wants. And I want a way for all sims to have a baby without being constrained by a trait. Sometimes people who don't like kids have a change of heart and sometimes they make stupid mistakes. Either way, it is up to the player to decide. And dazed doesn't mean drunk. Unless they're drunk when they're sick, drunk when they're tired, drunk when they have a bad day at school because, yeah, kids also get dazed.
I agree...... I don’t like the control of a sim taken away from me..... all options should be on the table, if I want them to have a baby..... then they should be able to have it. It would be nice if our sims could change traits (without cheats ) like they do aspirations... that would give me more control. Which control is what I want.
-Get your sim dazed to make babies. okay yea but that sim does not have to take that drink. Right? Right? But who can pass up a Salty Llama? Besides you can also make it where the sim that hates children loves their spouse or whatever and "agree" they can only have children together if they knock a few juices down. Al Bundy had to do all kinds of stuff to be with his wife. lol
-In comparison to keeping your sim needs in the red and have them go repair that broken 72" TV. Woops they got electrocuted then died. While we sit there laughing evilly watching them get shocked several times then death.... okay yes i did this once. LOL
Well people "I" would be the one to consent for my sims to do all the above.
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In Australia, the sims is technically rated M15+, so I guess it technically falls in a "T" for Teen rating and given that TS4 is the most watered-down and kid-friendly irritation of The Sims franchise, I feel it shouldn't even be rated M rather it should be downgraded to PG due to the semi-sexual humour and references to alcohol. (because that's how most older children's films get PG ratings because of a single sware/curse word in the entire film and some extremely mild violence)
One one hand, I agree that toggles would solves a lot of problems. We could simply say yes to things we are comfortable with, and no to the things we are not. Everyone wins (seemingly).
On the other hand, I still have to admit that toggles won't completely fix the current issues. Having the option to toggle something off in the game won't resolve the issue, or argument of the function existing in the first place. Sure, we can turn it off, but for some simmers, they may still be offended that there is an option to turn such an idea on.... that the game, does allow for the support, or promotion of such a feature.
In short, the toggles may be seen, or adopted, as a short-term resolve that does little more than mask the real issue of what does the game actually promote - though behind some clever scripting.
Though i'm on board with the idea of being able to freely play the game the way I am comfortable, I have to be careful to not have my gameplay interest be the cause of someone else's ability to also have that same freedom. If I am confortable with a particular game function, I should be able to use that function despite others not liking it. After all, its my game to play so just let me play it. But adopting this freedom while knowing the particular function I am defending .... for "me".... does, and perhaps, fairly.... make others feel uncomfortable.... what do I do with that?
Its difficult, if not impossible, to create a game for everyone. But in today's world, as judged by current events (and of late), we need to do a better job of searching for a happy medium.
This constant going back and forth blaming others for infringing our our lives in some way, IMO, isn't getting any of us anywhere.
And to again play devil's advocate.... maybe the problem (for example) isn't that burglars isn't in the sims game, but rather that, there are still people in the world who would still support this type of behavior, even in.... just a game. People who think it's funny to light sims on fire, or drown them in a pool. Is the problem our ability to have, or not have, these gameplay options, or is the problem more so that some simmers are actually entertained (to some degree) by this behavior? What is the real problem here?
Blame is like a basketball. Once thrown, it will bounce all over the place with the potential to hit a lot of people. If we're ever to have a better game for all of us, we need to stop throwing the ball. (easier said than done I know). But we have to start somewhere.
I would say that the actual problem is naivete. Why should it bother someone if some other player likes deviant play? What someone does in their game has no correlation whatsoever to what they do in real life. It's a game. It's complete fiction. It's an escape from reality. Just because it's a (loosely interpreted) life simulator doesn't mean it's an accurate representation of what people do in reality, that's just absurd. Even some of the developers are deviant players. There have been live streams run by Sim Guru Morgan who had Sim versions of the devs and ran a tournament to kill them all off and see who was the survivor in the end. It was funny and no one got insulted by that. Why should they? It says absolutely nothing about how she treats her fellows or how she thinks of them.
This is why the social justice outrage needs to be brushed off. Companies involved in the arts and entertainment industries need to start pushing back because it's becoming an hysteria the likes that hasn't been seen since the Salem witch trials. Are people so ignorant that they can no longer tell the difference between reality and fiction? That concerns me more than any of these complaints do. And, like others have pointed out, it's very U.S.-centric. For a game claiming to be striving to be more worldly they certainly do bend too quickly to immature American ideals regurgitated from a cancel culture who lacks wisdom.
I acknowledge that the devs are in a tight spot with this. But I think what they need to start doing is pulling away from the assurances that make the game too personal to the players, make them seem like they're our buddies, and start taking a more neutral and professional stance about the game. They should start stressing more that the game is international, that they have one of the most diverse communities not only in culture, but in play styles, preferences, ages and experiences. They should stress that they will continue to strive to create a game where every player can play their own way by leaving choices in the players' hands. That it's not up to them to police us, it's not up to the community to police each other, and it's not up to the Game Changers to dictate the content, only to give suggestions. They should state that they will remain open to ideas from everyone and do the best they can but are unable to make specific promises. That they want to stay true to the integrity of The Sims brand and to do this means that sometimes people will get the gameplay they want, while other times they won't. Maybe they can start doing content polls or community Kit votes to keep people engaged. But I think they need to stop making snap judgements and quick responses every time someone tries to make a controversy. Maybe they should start pulling away from Twitter exchanges and tighten their responses, change the wording of something if it sounds scandalous, but don't remove features over it.
There will be no game left, nothing to simulate if they continue on this path to scrambling to nerf everything that gets a complaint. Because the crazy thing is, a lot of these same people who push to cancel features are also constantly criticizing the game for being dull and, ironically, lifeless.
What i'm seeing from different events happening currently in the world is that we are at a tug of war between 2 major ideologies.
1 side is fighting against the ability to freely adopt negative ideals, from flaming people on social media to gender/race inequality... which to this type of argument can include lighting sims on fire in the sims game.
The other side is trying to protect one's freedom to continue adopting these negativities using defenses such as .... "free speech", and, "if it hurts no one then".
The root goal of this tug of war (as far as I can see it) is the rebranding of our very own thinking as a evolutionary specie. To instill a brand new mindset where people begin, through time, to not accept these activities as being part of the norm.
Yes, it is a fair argument that what you do in your game is none of my business, and why should I even have an opinion concerning anything you do in your game when I likely won't even at any time witness it. I agree with you.
But, to allow you to continue to adopt these negativities as an individual, to say nothing about you, or others having these interests, does nothing to fight the current mindset that the current events are trying to fight. Why should you, or anyone, be provided a platform, even for their own private entertainment, to light sims on fire, or drown sims in a pool. Even if it doesn't hurt anyone, or even if nobody will ever find out long enough to be bothered by it, why should anyone be give a platform to explore such activities?
Ahem. I think thread is starting to spiral off to another dimension since few pages past
so quick reminder to keep subject sims related if one wants to continue the debate
*takes off fancy OP hat*
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Noted.... and sorry.
I won't hit the "awesome" button because I just got in trouble lol, but i'll hit the "like" for your fancy OP hat lol.
Well, if Games Producers do what some want them to do I can see the end of all games requiring shooting, robbery, killings and war which will bring the whole of the gaming world to a halt and we would be faced with football games for ever more.
Conan Exiles also has hair and clothing animation.
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I honestly hope that those who has examined it with reason would voice to the team as well. They need to hear from the clear-minded ones.
Also, I’ve come up with a solution that might seem less “creepy” to the offended folks: whenever ANY sim is Dazed, regardless of their trait, they’ll have a risk (maybe like 40% or something) to impregnate/conceive children after an accepted (i.e., consented) woohoo. This way, it can be interpreted as mindlessness of protection due to the Dazed emotion.
He said the design "allows players to explore the failure state." You can still do this in Sims 4, but it's severely nerfed, and while I like the idea of making everything a toggle to make it easier for players who don't want certain things in their game to easily opt out (looking at you, alien abductions, which are a layer of weirdness that doesn't fit my playstyle at all), it's fun to explore things like making a Hates Children sim raise a kid. Especially since when I did it (even making the Hates Children sim a single mom!), it felt like a real character-building exercise for her when she bonded with and ended up loving the heck out of that kid.
And remember this above all. Our Roman gods are watching. Make sure they are not ashamed!
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There's not enough negative consequences or even unforeseen tragedies in the same. Everything is so easy. You can't even get robbed anymore, since burglars don't exist.
As a person who suffered from a Major Depression and only been recovering since the past year, The aspiration failures are like Depression. Kinda like when you wanted to live your life to the fullest but you can't because of external causes (e.g. Abuse, Events, and etc.) to the point that you start regretting your life and wanted to start a new one. (In a negative way). That is like the Aspiration Failure in The Sims 2. Sims are extremely sad, they become so much insane because of their failures in life, and a Therapist have to "Cure" them.
I suffered Depression but I never find it Offensive when I played The Sims 2. Rather I find it amusing that the games mirrors life to the point that I learned so much of Human behavior and psychology, the reason why I am studying psychology right now.....
I bet if The Sims 2 was released today it will be cut.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/924539/features-that-needs-depth-and-ways-to-improve
Censoring all the bad things from games and media would honestly just result in more bad things in real life and in real games
because it is human nature to sometimes get angry and stressed and worst of all bored and if they cant take it out on pixels or at least distract themselves from those feelings they will eventually take it out on real humans
coincidentally it is also why old men always wanna fight people over most random things you might consider to not be that big of a deal like packing your groceries too slowly
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So Sims who hate children may not normally want to have unprotected woohoo because of the implications of a possible pregnancy, but if they're dazed then they may not think about it too hard and just go for it.
That's how I see it. I do agree that the original wording sounded creepy, but I do get that it wasn't meant to simulate a 'lack of consent'.
This is how I see it, too. Furthermore, no action in a game should ever have a 100% chance of failing, that's just bad design. Sims with the "Hates children" trait should not always reject "Try for baby", there should be an, however tiny, chance to persuade them.
Knowing a children hating sim will literally never accept Try for baby, if I needed one to have/make a baby for story reasons (inheritance, royal succession, species close to extinction or similar), I'd just move that sim in via Household Manegement (I'd probably not even bother with using the pie menu option) and then let this sim initiate the Try for baby interaction.
Sims 5 is going to be worse with this, far far worse. That's why I don't get why everyone wants it so bad. The way they are treating Sims 4 now with nerfing things that players find "inappropriate" is very telling of how S5 is going to be. Let S4 live on forever for all I care, it's probably the last iteration that will even still have somewhat "negative" traits or consequences.
When they created Sims 4, they did not consult behavior psychologists, or any type of expert in human behavior, when programming the AI/emotion system. They weren't trying to make realistic human reactions, and that is what actually makes the interactions feel like they're lacking. How do you begin to explore failure states or success states for sims when their reactions are not human?
If in Sims 5, if there is a Sims 5, they actually consult with some experts in human behavior and at least give the sims realistic reactions to various scenarios, it would make the game so much more fulfilling, even if it continues to be geared towards a younger audience.
-Get your sim dazed to make babies. okay yea but that sim does not have to take that drink. Right? Right? But who can pass up a Salty Llama? Besides you can also make it where the sim that hates children loves their spouse or whatever and "agree" they can only have children together if they knock a few juices down. Al Bundy had to do all kinds of stuff to be with his wife. lol
-In comparison to keeping your sim needs in the red and have them go repair that broken 72" TV. Woops they got electrocuted then died. While we sit there laughing evilly watching them get shocked several times then death.... okay yes i did this once. LOL
Well people "I" would be the one to consent for my sims to do all the above.
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