Is anyone else just sick of TS4 babysitting its players?
turns out hates kids trait improvement seemed " predatory" to someone and now they are taking it out...
when actually that was just to add realism and didn't increase predatory gameplay in any way because well unless player goes all the way out to make it predatory it really wouldn't be.
and woohoo would still need same amount of consent it usually does.
it could really just be 2 sims getting juiced and forgetting they hate kids or that woohoo minus protection spawns one
and im just tired in general of this trend that everything in game must be a freaking utopia and it cancels out whole loads of stuff
like one could argue mother plant is predatory and they'd just go " oh right totally let us delete that" like um mother plant is very nice buddy if you just calm her down
one could argue " oh but sims could be killed in horrible ways so they should never die" and theyd just go "oh right let us take dying out of the game"
like I'm sick if this mentality of " if it can be used for evil it cant be in the game"
and I'm sure it will end up destroying half of the game for me because well it already has. in form of realm of magic spells being completely nerfed cause "oh no someone might want to make evil wizard" p_p
(yes that someone is me, total creep, do flee)
I just hope community would realize that what someone does in their game doesnt need to happen in theirs and they can simply just not do it if it bothers them so much
personally i was hyped that despite hates kids sims not liking kids they might still accidentally make one and hence have to battle their dislike of kids to raise one
but now idk if they'll end up ruining the whole trait for me cause someone found that spoopy
and anyway thanks for coming to my hotheaded rant hope your nose isnt completely stuffed with peas and have a great day
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
What people forget is that sims cannot give consent. The only sentient being involved in this game is - the player.
The player gives consent by choosing a partner for the sim, (no consent!), getting their relationship high enough to first kiss, (again, does every one stop and ask their sim if they want to do this?), then woohooing, (sim cant consent as they literally get 0 option to say no if they have the required level of relationship. And hello, that sure sounds like the old argument that sexual abuse cant happen in marriage but is any one complaining about THAT?)
Hates kids would've required an extra step of getting one sim dazed.
Player responsibility, don't like it, don't do it.
Is anyone else just sick of TS4 babysitting its players?
turns out hates kids trait improvement seemed " predatory" to someone and now they are taking it out...
So, to answer the question in your post, yes, I do get tired of games "babysitting" and limiting players.
Now, that being said, your post is misleading about what the player complaint was. According to EA's notes: "Asking a Hates Children Sim to "Try for Baby" has no chance of success unless the Sim is dazed".
Players complained that this feature was unnecessary and creepy, because it was and is. Why include that feature at all? Why wouldn't it work just like any other Sim couple trying for a baby? I'm the one telling my sims to try for a baby, and I don't want or need some weird, implicit reminder that my Sim technically doesn't want children but is being forced to procreate because I told him to.
If anything, fixing this weird feature gives a player more control, not less. After all, if a player is telling their sim to try for a baby, they presumably want a baby, regardless of what the Sim wants.
Why include that feature at all? Why wouldn't it work just like any other Sim couple trying for a baby? I'm the one telling my sims to try for a baby, and I don't want or need some weird, implicit reminder that my Sim technically doesn't want children but is being forced to procreate because I told him to.
well you can view it that way but i thought it would make sense for sim to most of the time reject making beings they hate though unless there is specific reason they might not feel that way in the moment
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
Thing is, it should still be viewed as something bad no matter what. If your Sim hates children, and absolutely does not want them, one could argue the partner is forcing a child onto the other by simply "trying for baby", because you know one of them does not want to. If you really think about it, it's still bad. It simply isn't seen this way because now the dazed requirement is gone.
At least, that is how I see it.
Now, that being said, your post is misleading about what the player complaint was. According to EA's notes: "Asking a Hates Children Sim to "Try for Baby" has no chance of success unless the Sim is dazed".
Players complained that this feature was unnecessary and creepy, because it was and is. Why include that feature at all? Why wouldn't it work just like any other Sim couple trying for a baby? I'm the one telling my sims to try for a baby, and I don't want or need some weird, implicit reminder that my Sim technically doesn't want children but is being forced to procreate because I told him to.
If anything, fixing this weird feature gives a player more control, not less. After all, if a player is telling their sim to try for a baby, they presumably want a baby, regardless of what the Sim wants.
Bolded the parts I'm responding too. Both are an excellent reason to keep the dazed requirement in For those made uncomfortable by the thought of the dazed moodlet, this should be an excellent life lesson on consent. Without some kind of brain chemistry change, from a knock on the head to getting 'juiced', this sim wouldn't choose to 'try for baby'. Do you as a player respect their wishes? Or not? With the way you made it sound, it could well be that all the players currently complaining will continue to force their sims to have babies while enjoying a blanket of no consequences and no unpleasant reminder.
I want a life simulator and life is some times uncomfortable and we do stupid things.
Further rambling thoughts as I'm cooking dinner
What about the option to WooHoo at all when dazed? That's been in the game for years? Why isn't this an issue to the people complaining? THAT could be a πΈπΈπΈπΈ scenario. At least with 'Try for Baby' it's reasonably assumed that the two sims involved already enjoy a woohoo relationship and the question is, 'do we take no precautions this time'?
What about the option to WooHoo at all when dazed? That's been in the game for years? Why isn't this an issue to the people complaining? THAT could be a β€οΈβ€οΈβ€οΈβ€οΈ scenario.
[Pollination Technician panic noises]
They're onto us
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
@CelSims
I wanna say, for the same reason we don't have burglars in TS4, but we do have Vampires breaking in and feeding off of our asleep Sims. I have seen lots of threads about how burglars provoked unpleasant feelings in the players, but a Vampire sneaking inside your place in the middle of the night, to suck blood out of a sleeping Sim is okay? I have searched a few times as to why they didn't make it into TS4, and lots of people shared the same feeling as to why they were bad to deal with.
I know this is a completely different subject, but a lot of complains seem to be done just to complain and no other real purpose. If you really wanna argue that something makes you feel a certain way, go all the way through with it.
I do not want to disregard anyone's feelings, obviously.
@CelSims
I wanna say, for the same reason we don't have burglars in TS4, but we do have Vampires breaking in and feeding off of our asleep Sims. I have seen lots of threads about how burglars provoked unpleasant feelings in the players, but a Vampire sneaking inside your place in the middle of the night, to suck blood out of a sleeping Sim is okay? I have searched a few times as to why they didn't make it into TS4, and lots of people shared the same feeling as to why they were bad to deal with.
I know this is a completely different subject, but a lot of complains seem to be done just to complain and no other real purpose. If you really wanna argue that something makes you feel a certain way, go all the way through with it.
I do not want to disregard anyone's feelings, obviously.
Oooof. Occult players have been complaining for a while that break ins don't happen any more, due to people complaining about it.
The trespassing option added to doors, last year I think?, can be used to prevent vampires spawning on the lot for the drink event. For all intent and purpose, the no trespass option is the players consent button in regards to vampire break ins.
I do agree, complaining about this but ignoring the fact that sims have no consent at all from every thing to the clothes they wear to the food they eat, to their life partner, is just being offended for the sake of it.
I'd prefer it if just in general there was a chance of having a baby from regular woohoo when dazed, and just had the hates children sims always refuse the try for baby action. It would change the issue from consent, because the sim is never actually being pressured while dazed into something they don't want to do, to the idea that using protection actually take some intelligent attention. And would allow in general for accidental pregnancies, which I would really like to have without mods.
@Daephene Now THIS is a good if not better alternative and I am all for it.
especially if your sims did have to buy some type of protection thing to make sure they do not get pregnant from woohoo and try for baby would just have higher success rate at giving your sims spawn than woohoo
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
@CelSims Please somebody teach me the art of how to quote only part of a post. omg.
They could add "opt-out" options for everything players dislike though. I did not know Vampires break ins had been nerfed, Vlad must really like my Sim!
It just seems silly that complains managed to keep out of the game a whole feature, but then they settle for a door being locked when it comes down to someone literally breaking into your house to annoy your Sim. Mind you, I LOVE vampires & the occasional visits. But it's useless being so vocal about one side of it, and then settle for the very same thing just implemented differently.
My point is, I wish that people who decide to complain about one thing being bad, would look at the whole picture instead of only part of it. They behaved like Maxis added it and worded it that way to turn your Sims into big bad monsters, when in reality there was NOTHING behind it.
Especially if you are just going ahead and making your children hating Sims still have babies. Just don't use the trait... And don't force a company to take one thing out of the game because you don't want to feel like you're doing something wrong. Truth is, if you are forcing your Sims with the hates children trait try for baby, you are still doing something wrong. You just don't have a visual reminder of it.
Please somebody teach me the art of how to quote only part of a post. omg.
you just have to keep the first bracket quote=nickname bunch of numbers and stuff bracket thing and then delete anything in between you don't want to quote and have a nice bracket /quote bracket at the end of where you want quote to end and write your comment after that like usual
hope i made sense
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
@Daephene Now THIS is a good if not better alternative and I am all for it.
especially if your sims did have to buy some type of protection thing to make sure they do not get pregnant from woohoo and try for baby would just have higher success rate at giving your sims spawn than woohoo
I don't know if I'd want to have to go through the motions of using some kind of protection every time... but I do wish there were situations that made woohoo riskier... dazed state, exhaustion, something like that. I don't mind having an always 0% chance of pregnancy option and an almost 100% likely to get pregnant option, I'd just like a 10% chance option as well, that I can make happen if I want to for a story or to add some randomness to the game. And then if you have Hates Children or Noncommittal sims you can still create stories that involve accidental pregnancies, it's just a little more work than with other sims.
I regularly use Try for Baby as in I am trying to get them pregnant and headcanon that it was a surprise for them... but honestly the odds of getting pregnant are too high so it never fails which kind of takes the fun out of taking the risk on a whim.
you just have to keep the first bracket quote=nickname bunch of numbers and stuff bracket thing and then delete anything in between you don't want to quote and have a nice bracket /quote bracket at the end of where you want quote to end and write your comment after that like usual
hope i made sense
@Daephene Now THIS is a good if not better alternative and I am all for it.
especially if your sims did have to buy some type of protection thing to make sure they do not get pregnant from woohoo and try for baby would just have higher success rate at giving your sims spawn than woohoo
I don't know if I'd want to have to go through the motions of using some kind of protection every time...
true true
I was perhaps thinking of something like "unfertility goddess statue" for a silly approach or " unfertility potion" for somewhat realistic to block chance of pregnancy while woohoo
but it would be nice if there was some risk of getting nooboo when woohooing
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
Is anyone else just sick of TS4 babysitting its players?
turns out hates kids trait improvement seemed " predatory" to someone and now they are taking it out...
when actually that was just to add realism and didn't increase predatory gameplay in any way because well unless player goes all the way out to make it predatory it really wouldn't be.
and woohoo would still need same amount of consent it usually does.
it could really just be 2 sims getting juiced and forgetting they hate kids or that woohoo minus protection spawns one
and im just tired in general of this trend that everything in game must be a freaking utopia and it cancels out whole loads of stuff
like one could argue mother plant is predatory and they'd just go " oh right totally let us delete that" like um mother plant is very nice buddy if you just calm her down
one could argue " oh but sims could be killed in horrible ways so they should never die" and theyd just go "oh right let us take dying out of the game"
like I'm sick if this mentality of " if it can be used for evil it cant be in the game"
and I'm sure it will end up destroying half of the game for me because well it already has. in form of realm of magic spells being completely nerfed cause "oh no someone might want to make evil wizard" p_p
(yes that someone is me, total creep, do flee)
I just hope community would realize that what someone does in their game doesnt need to happen in theirs and they can simply just not do it if it bothers them so much
personally i was hyped that despite hates kids sims not liking kids they might still accidentally make one and hence have to battle their dislike of kids to raise one
but now idk if they'll end up ruining the whole trait for me cause someone found that spoopy
and anyway thanks for coming to my hotheaded rant hope your nose isnt completely stuffed with peas and have a great day
I personally donβt like that they changed the hates to have children sims where it is hard for them to give birth because it takes away from my freedom of what I want to do. If I want them to have children in my story line, then I want them to have them........ maybe I want to plan for a divorce or a break up afterwards. So that messes up my story line. It didnβt even occur to me what other people were concerned with. I donβt want to see them taking away my options like that. But wouldnβt it be easy enough for them to put ( like another player said ) an option to have a 10% chance of getting pregnant along with the regular try for baby option? Then if you want that type of randomness you have it. But if you donβt want so much randomness you have that too?
Itβs been interesting seeing the comments on here compared to Twitter and YouTube on the issue. On those platforms people are saying sims should be a safe space and things like this should not be in the game. I have never thought of a game being a safe space. You can look at a lot of different aspects of the game and something will upset someone. If the team are going to change this then what about male pregnancies from alien abductions? Surely thatβs along a similar line in terms of consent etc as well?
Somethings bother me and some don't when it comes to the term babysitting...
Nerfing Vampires... That bothers me.
Meaningless Aspirations that are just mini tutorials... That bothers me.
The lack of any bad consequences or events... That bothers me.
The Hates Children Trait changes... That doesn't bother me. I think it needs changing. It's creepy and unnecessary.
Itβs been interesting seeing the comments on here compared to Twitter and YouTube on the issue. On those platforms people are saying sims should be a safe space and things like this should not be in the game. I have never thought of a game being a safe space
Well I certainly consider my saves very unsafe spaces I don't want things to be all perfectly happy and unproblematic quite the opposite
but at the same time it is very safe space in sense that it includes no other humans just me and my sims that may or may not be creeps and i control my kingdom of doom
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
Itβs been interesting seeing the comments on here compared to Twitter and YouTube on the issue. On those platforms people are saying sims should be a safe space and things like this should not be in the game. I have never thought of a game being a safe space
Well I certainly consider my saves very unsafe spaces I don't want things to be all perfectly happy and unproblematic quite the opposite
but at the same time it is very safe space in sense that it includes no other humans just me and my sims that may or may not be creeps and i control my kingdom of doom
I always take the view that without some adversity and challenges to over come, you don't fully appreciate the happy moments. How many children have been born from an oops moment and are cherished, turning an accident or drunken mistake into a wanted, happy child.
I always take the view that without some adversity and challenges to over come, you don't fully appreciate the happy moments. How many children have been born from an oops moment and are cherished, turning an accident or drunken mistake into a wanted, happy child.
Yes and contrast is just needed in general
especially in storytelling
because well it doesnt really make a big story to turn happy child into happy child
what is the point of that?
If the happy is maxed out
how can one even be more happy
βοΈ AHQ Champion π¦ Vlad Advocate π Team Dragons
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
Comments
The player gives consent by choosing a partner for the sim, (no consent!), getting their relationship high enough to first kiss, (again, does every one stop and ask their sim if they want to do this?), then woohooing, (sim cant consent as they literally get 0 option to say no if they have the required level of relationship. And hello, that sure sounds like the old argument that sexual abuse cant happen in marriage but is any one complaining about THAT?)
Hates kids would've required an extra step of getting one sim dazed.
Player responsibility, don't like it, don't do it.
Yeah I find it easier than even the MySims games which were designed for children.
So, to answer the question in your post, yes, I do get tired of games "babysitting" and limiting players.
Now, that being said, your post is misleading about what the player complaint was. According to EA's notes: "Asking a Hates Children Sim to "Try for Baby" has no chance of success unless the Sim is dazed".
Players complained that this feature was unnecessary and creepy, because it was and is. Why include that feature at all? Why wouldn't it work just like any other Sim couple trying for a baby? I'm the one telling my sims to try for a baby, and I don't want or need some weird, implicit reminder that my Sim technically doesn't want children but is being forced to procreate because I told him to.
If anything, fixing this weird feature gives a player more control, not less. After all, if a player is telling their sim to try for a baby, they presumably want a baby, regardless of what the Sim wants.
I do agree with you, & CelSims.
well you can view it that way but i thought it would make sense for sim to most of the time reject making beings they hate though unless there is specific reason they might not feel that way in the moment
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
At least, that is how I see it.
Bolded the parts I'm responding too. Both are an excellent reason to keep the dazed requirement in For those made uncomfortable by the thought of the dazed moodlet, this should be an excellent life lesson on consent. Without some kind of brain chemistry change, from a knock on the head to getting 'juiced', this sim wouldn't choose to 'try for baby'. Do you as a player respect their wishes? Or not? With the way you made it sound, it could well be that all the players currently complaining will continue to force their sims to have babies while enjoying a blanket of no consequences and no unpleasant reminder.
I want a life simulator and life is some times uncomfortable and we do stupid things.
Further rambling thoughts as I'm cooking dinner
What about the option to WooHoo at all when dazed? That's been in the game for years? Why isn't this an issue to the people complaining? THAT could be a πΈπΈπΈπΈ scenario. At least with 'Try for Baby' it's reasonably assumed that the two sims involved already enjoy a woohoo relationship and the question is, 'do we take no precautions this time'?
[Pollination Technician panic noises]
They're onto us
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
I wanna say, for the same reason we don't have burglars in TS4, but we do have Vampires breaking in and feeding off of our asleep Sims. I have seen lots of threads about how burglars provoked unpleasant feelings in the players, but a Vampire sneaking inside your place in the middle of the night, to suck blood out of a sleeping Sim is okay? I have searched a few times as to why they didn't make it into TS4, and lots of people shared the same feeling as to why they were bad to deal with.
I know this is a completely different subject, but a lot of complains seem to be done just to complain and no other real purpose. If you really wanna argue that something makes you feel a certain way, go all the way through with it.
I do not want to disregard anyone's feelings, obviously.
Oooof. Occult players have been complaining for a while that break ins don't happen any more, due to people complaining about it.
The trespassing option added to doors, last year I think?, can be used to prevent vampires spawning on the lot for the drink event. For all intent and purpose, the no trespass option is the players consent button in regards to vampire break ins.
I do agree, complaining about this but ignoring the fact that sims have no consent at all from every thing to the clothes they wear to the food they eat, to their life partner, is just being offended for the sake of it.
but i do think there should be toggle if they add them cause they'd get nerfed in like seconds probably p_p
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
especially if your sims did have to buy some type of protection thing to make sure they do not get pregnant from woohoo and try for baby would just have higher success rate at giving your sims spawn than woohoo
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
They could add "opt-out" options for everything players dislike though. I did not know Vampires break ins had been nerfed, Vlad must really like my Sim!
It just seems silly that complains managed to keep out of the game a whole feature, but then they settle for a door being locked when it comes down to someone literally breaking into your house to annoy your Sim. Mind you, I LOVE vampires & the occasional visits. But it's useless being so vocal about one side of it, and then settle for the very same thing just implemented differently.
My point is, I wish that people who decide to complain about one thing being bad, would look at the whole picture instead of only part of it. They behaved like Maxis added it and worded it that way to turn your Sims into big bad monsters, when in reality there was NOTHING behind it.
Especially if you are just going ahead and making your children hating Sims still have babies. Just don't use the trait... And don't force a company to take one thing out of the game because you don't want to feel like you're doing something wrong. Truth is, if you are forcing your Sims with the hates children trait try for baby, you are still doing something wrong. You just don't have a visual reminder of it.
you just have to keep the first bracket quote=nickname bunch of numbers and stuff bracket thing and then delete anything in between you don't want to quote and have a nice bracket /quote bracket at the end of where you want quote to end and write your comment after that like usual
hope i made sense
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
I don't know if I'd want to have to go through the motions of using some kind of protection every time... but I do wish there were situations that made woohoo riskier... dazed state, exhaustion, something like that. I don't mind having an always 0% chance of pregnancy option and an almost 100% likely to get pregnant option, I'd just like a 10% chance option as well, that I can make happen if I want to for a story or to add some randomness to the game. And then if you have Hates Children or Noncommittal sims you can still create stories that involve accidental pregnancies, it's just a little more work than with other sims.
I regularly use Try for Baby as in I am trying to get them pregnant and headcanon that it was a surprise for them... but honestly the odds of getting pregnant are too high so it never fails which kind of takes the fun out of taking the risk on a whim.
true true
I was perhaps thinking of something like "unfertility goddess statue" for a silly approach or " unfertility potion" for somewhat realistic to block chance of pregnancy while woohoo
but it would be nice if there was some risk of getting nooboo when woohooing
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
I personally donβt like that they changed the hates to have children sims where it is hard for them to give birth because it takes away from my freedom of what I want to do. If I want them to have children in my story line, then I want them to have them........ maybe I want to plan for a divorce or a break up afterwards. So that messes up my story line. It didnβt even occur to me what other people were concerned with. I donβt want to see them taking away my options like that. But wouldnβt it be easy enough for them to put ( like another player said ) an option to have a 10% chance of getting pregnant along with the regular try for baby option? Then if you want that type of randomness you have it. But if you donβt want so much randomness you have that too?
Nerfing Vampires... That bothers me.
Meaningless Aspirations that are just mini tutorials... That bothers me.
The lack of any bad consequences or events... That bothers me.
The Hates Children Trait changes... That doesn't bother me. I think it needs changing. It's creepy and unnecessary.
Well I certainly consider my saves very unsafe spaces I don't want things to be all perfectly happy and unproblematic quite the opposite
but at the same time it is very safe space in sense that it includes no other humans just me and my sims that may or may not be creeps and i control my kingdom of doom
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free
I always take the view that without some adversity and challenges to over come, you don't fully appreciate the happy moments. How many children have been born from an oops moment and are cherished, turning an accident or drunken mistake into a wanted, happy child.
Yes and contrast is just needed in general
especially in storytelling
because well it doesnt really make a big story to turn happy child into happy child
what is the point of that?
If the happy is maxed out
how can one even be more happy
π‘ Gallery π Stories π World Project π₯ MOD/CC Free