I definitely agree about emotions being very overpowering in this game, but the traits themselves aren't completely blameless either. Ironically, the emotional ones are arguably the worst. When I give a sim the Creative trait, I expect them to actually have fun with creative activities like writing and painting, but nope, they consider it a money-making chore just like everybody else, and their work isn't even of higher quality than that of uncreative sims unless I buy a certain reward trait. Likewise, sims with the Genius trait shouldn't just get a random Focused moodlet every once in a while, they should build skills faster in general.
But it's not just the emotional traits. There are others that are poorly designed, and some that are simply broken, like jealous sims getting tense from not being around their partner... who is sitting right next to them. Who cares if clumsy sims only have some less elegant animations than others, the dishes they break in the sink don't even matter, they should also be more prone to breaking household items and causing accidents. And does the Bro trait have any use other than giving sims a happy moodlet for being around other bros, a situation that almost never comes up unless every other sim in your neighbourhood has the trait?
This too! Thank you. I agree that sims should have fun doing things they're interested in.
I always found it odd that my creative sim would be too uncomfortable to do things like paint, or write. That's pretty opposite of RL too IMO. I'm a fairly creative person and when I am uncomfortable, sad, or upset in any way at all, I retreat back to draw or write and it calms me and brings me back to happy. The fact that sims have to be happy (or any of the positive emotions) to do these things is just strange to me. There's the "sad" painting they can do, but any sim can do that regardless of what traits they have or don't have. Something like a creative sim should be able to paint, write or play an instrument no matter what mood they are in, and it should provide them with fun and a quicker timer for the moodlet to disappear. Same as an athletic sim might jog or work out to get through some of the tougher emotions.
I feel like it worked this way in past sims games and I guess I expected it work like this for our "smartest sims yet".
I agree that traits matter to sims you are playing, but they don't always play well with emotions, and they could have been implemented better. An evil sim is my worst favorite for how much better they could have been; instead of doing evil things, they just say evil things. I can think of tons of little evil things a sim could do (watch Despicable me for ideas). But instead, it's just yell insult yell insult insult yell. Even when they are happy, talking to a friend, or even a lover.
The other thing is that the game doesn't take them into account when choosing npcs to do things like fishing and jogging in your neighborhood. Or who rushes to play the big arcade game, or hit the dance floor, play on the computer, etc. So while they may affect emotions on npcs, and they may change the way your own sims act while you are playing them, It's hard to tell they are doing much for townies.
And like I posted before (and other people mentioned their effect) most buffs are too long, because they override a sim's traits.
My main problem with traits in particular is that there are so few compared to just....real life, I guess. I want more traits that offer a really dynamic experience, like a vain sim that is also a do-gooder and can't get enough volunteering or someone who is shy but not a loner (not the same thing). I don't have all the packs so I don't know every trait I'm missing out on, but I feel like even base game traits could do with more added in.
This is why I got a lot of mods for new traits. I highly encourage it for those who are cool with mods. Some of my favorites are the Pre-teen and zodiac traits as well as Green Thumb and Pianist.
This game is atrocious when it comes to distinguish sims. Half of the animations are non existent and all the sims are robots. My bookworm sim doesn’t want to read any more then any other sim. My evil sim is friendly and they are all happy most of the time. Unless they have to pee or burn their toast then they are nearly suicidal. I know people that get angry about burning a toast and know people that couldn’t care less. Every interaction is one sided and shallow. If one sim catches another cheating they only get slightly temporarily angry for a few minutes with only the spouse or significant other. The other cheater is not impacted and the cheating party is mad only if confronted. Basically their reaction is not to the situation but to the confrontation. The traits will not matter. They will usually just get angry or sad and after a few minutes they can be bffs again and build the meter like nothing happened. If sim get divorced nothing happens except they get few days of sadness even if they hated their spouse. Same happens if someone dies. Sentiments do not change that either. Maybe you consider this game exciting when you have sift through the badly visible nuances, but I don’t. I played sims 2 and 3 and in both cases when sims were upset at something or didn’t like something or someone you knew it and they didn’t just shift to happy little robots. When my sims got divorced, (they hated each other) they got both sad for exactly the same amount of time and I couldn’t throw one sim out or tell them to move out. Nope they either had to leave voluntarily (me going on a computer and having them move out) or I had to use my god/narrator skills and split and move. Point being no gameplay option again. No matter what trait or interactions or reputation or even relationship they had they will react 90% the same. I’ll give you an example. 3 family member witnesses the death of one family member their reaction was the same. It did not matter if they were good or evil. It did not matter if they liked the family member. It did not matter the reputation they had. Nothing mattered. They all got slapped with the standard 2 days of sadness. You can delete the urn after that and they all forgot the family member even existed. As to traits I actually use klepto and dance machine (actually allows you to get energy quicker with naps. It’s not about dancing so much.). I use klepto because there is not enough “bad”traits. Traits might impact only how quickly or slowly your needs drop or you rebuild them. That and the occasional standard emotion that the creators thought actually mattered. But, if you get trait rewards even that gets eliminated. Naps eliminate any characteristics. In terms of game play they are absolute clones and nothing impacts it. And don’t get me started on whims. Those are even worse. If what ever good, cat lover, frugal evil, mean sim does something they automatically get the corresponding whim usually the whim will relate to buying some crap they have no business wanting. That should only be a whim of a materialistic or klepto sim or happen on a very rare basis for the others. Your sim takes a shower suddenly they want to buy a hot tub. Your sim watches a comedy suddenly they want a foosball table. It doesn’t matter what your sim is. It could be a evil loner vampire but talk to one sim and suddenly they want to have a party even if don’t like people. Most whims are about just buying useless not related to anything objects even if those purchases go against their traits. And then there is the one sided interactions that are prevalent in the game. Your kleptomaniac can steal but another sim can’t catch them steeling (I am saying their is no interactions called catch stealing). Even when they get cough there is little animation to show that they have been caught. Just poof embarrassed. Why are they embarrassed? Not every one would be embarrassed and maybe evil klepto shouldn’t be. But, many interactions that should have provided reciprocal actions are missing. My attorney can get client but another sim can’t ask to be represented. That is because no one bothers to conect expansions. You can use the same friendly interaction over and over and over again. You can praise vampire lifestyle 15 times in a row and the recipient will just be oh so happy no matter what traits they have.Nothing is challenging in this game, emotional responses are standardized with a few barely noticeable exceptions and even those are so boring. Life changing moments, interactions between sims are treated the same. There is no drama and nothing is exciting. Please go back to sims 2 and have them cheat and you tell me that this game is well designed. The make out looks like there is a chaperone in the room. The previous games had cute nuance animations, and reciprocity. In previous games an angry neighbor who would not like your sim would occasionally do mean things. And that is another thing: occasionally. The Murthy bed kills sim at an alarming rate, the vending machine in snowy escape gets stuck every other purchase. That is not cute or unusual if it happens all the effing time. It’s just annoying. This game play team gets so existed about any animation they bothered putting effort into that they have it repeat so many times it stops being a cute event but an annoying overwhelming bug. It is all repetitive, lackluster, robotic. Mean sim destroy dollhouses. That is their go to. That is the extend of the impact. If their hated family member dies they will get standard 2 days of sadness. If you give them a doll house they will destroy it, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Like a glitch. That is not what I consider impactful game play
Some traits seem to matter and other traits don't seem to do much at all. Emotions totally overpower traits and in many ways break the game. From one moment you can be inspired and then by walking across the room change moods and then you can't do the interaction anymore.
The only thing I've seen with a clumsy Sim is that they will break dishes.
Active Sims can wake up feeling energized
Gloomy Sims can wake up feeling sad.
The potential is there but it's not as utilized as say Sims 3 traits.
The problem isn't the traits though is sort of the point I'm trying to make. The problem is with emotions. Once a Sim gets into an emotion, regardless of the traits, regardless of how they got into that emotion, they will act the same. So the devs would need to (in my opinion) find a way to adjust the emotions so that all Sims in the sad emotion don't act the same and all Sims in the angry emotion don't act the same, etc.
I understand that you mean the emotions are the problem, not the traits, but without the emotions would there be traits in TS4?
Like gloomy, hot-headed, family-oriented, jealous, clumsy (which can get you playful) etc, or like the person you quoted mentioned, an active sim can wake up feeling energised. What else do they give your sim that makes them feel unique?
Without the emotions in the game, majority (if not all) traits don't matter. Jealous? Well without the tense emotion it doesn't really do much... And I consider jealous to be one of the stronger traits.
I agree with you that I wished sims reacted differently to different thing, like not all sims should get angry because of X or all sims get sad because of Y. (Like why does my evil sim cry and get a sad emotion that last a lifetime because the elder sim SHE just gave a death flower arrangement to, died?)
But I personally think traits are just as bad. They are too tied to emotions (and not just the actually emotional traits like cheerful etc).
Think of a trait and then remove all the emotional buffs it gives, what else is there?
Some traits seem to matter and other traits don't seem to do much at all. Emotions totally overpower traits and in many ways break the game. From one moment you can be inspired and then by walking across the room change moods and then you can't do the interaction anymore.
The only thing I've seen with a clumsy Sim is that they will break dishes.
Active Sims can wake up feeling energized
Gloomy Sims can wake up feeling sad.
The potential is there but it's not as utilized as say Sims 3 traits.
The problem isn't the traits though is sort of the point I'm trying to make. The problem is with emotions. Once a Sim gets into an emotion, regardless of the traits, regardless of how they got into that emotion, they will act the same. So the devs would need to (in my opinion) find a way to adjust the emotions so that all Sims in the sad emotion don't act the same and all Sims in the angry emotion don't act the same, etc.
Think of a trait and then remove all the emotional buffs it gives, what else is there?
yep nothing, i agree with you ts4 traits rely too much on emotions. they should at least work like ts3 traits, or at least devs could add more emotions. but traits need a whole rework for the sims autonomous interactions, their behavior, etc.
on ts4, vegetarian sims eat meat and lazy sims do pushups autonomously, gloomy sims tend to be happy and evil sims are saints.
and many other inconsistencies.
this is not smart coding and there is no excuse, devs didn't go "beyond" the rules just cuz irl someone lazy can exercise. no, if i make a lazy sim it should be annoyed, like if i make it jog or clean or whatever but they're happy with their grin laughing at me for still playing this game lmao
I think my main criticism comes down to the lack of unique behaviour. I agree that traits affect when and how sims experience certain emotions, but like you said, two sims with different traits in the same emotion will generally behave the same, even if how they got into that emotion was caused by different situations. When I see people talk about overhauling the traits, I think they really mean how these traits influence their autonomous behaviour, how they react to various events, and how they approach a certain situation all based on the emotion they are in.
An evil sim that's angry should act much more brutal towards others than a sim who isn't evil, that evil sim should also target sims they know they'll get a stronger reaction from while avoiding sims who might challenge their evilness. A loner sim who is tense should actively avoid large crowd of strangers while also sticking close to those they are familiar with, as if they were a lost puppy. A genius sim who is embarrassed because they failed a logic based activity should refine the skill or activity they failed at. None of this type of behaviour is in the game.
I can't say anything that hasn't been covered by someone else here, but the jealousy trait bugs me because it's nothing like what jealousy looks like to me, without mods. The plain in-game form of it, is more like just insecurity. And jealousy is not the same thing as simple insecurity. There is an element of proprietary feeling that is ignored by the game trait. And it does not involve feeling insecure or tense when not in the presence of the beloved. That seems a bit weenie-ish, the way is portrayed in the game.
Thanks!
That jealous trait is annoying but I like it for some reason. In the game now, they get tense when their partner is off the lot right? Or is it if they're in another room? I can't remember.
What would you like them to change about the Jealous trait in particular to improve it?
I can only look back on the time I had a heck of a lot of fun with the Jealous Trait but it was mod-driven, with autonomy-enhancements. What happened in that scenario, was epic: My guy was a piano player, and saw his wife being with another man, and he was VERY upset, cried, but then flew into a righteous rage and provoked the other man, who provoked him back and it was on. I was sure the other man was going to win the fight, but my Jealous Husband mopped the floor with the offender and couldn't seem to figure out what to do, he was so angry with his cheating wife, but that need to stake his claim was running really high and he did the Frenzied Kiss interaction that I had only seen when a couple fought, like once before. Later on at home, she initiated some kind of woohoo that I almost never saw, some kind of Make-up woohoo, I forget what it was called...that was something...I have never in my life had "make-up woohoo" but it looks so good it might almost be worth trying on purpose.
But something happened some time later that it seemed like the autonomy mods weren't working nearly as well as before, and everything became very tame again. And my Jealous sims were just these people who got Tense whenever Sweetums wasn't around, then maybe needed to vent about it when Sweetums came home. That's just insecurity. Jealousy is a kind of possessiveness that doesn't mean you can't stand to be apart, you're not clingy and needy...you just want to stake your claim, let your beloved know they are YOURS and no one else's.
They did make a stab at it with the "All Mine!" moodlet. But that makes me think more of an ice cream sundae xD Maybe it's the same feeling. Not wanting to share your sundae.
I have no idea how they'd make it more vivid...that Frenzied Kiss, the fight, the passion, the makeup woohoo, were pretty cool to have happen autonomously. I need to go make some awful relationship drama again in a game and test it out. Maybe sentiments will change something, but I don't have Snowy Escapes.
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Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
This is very interesting! I've never really thought about it. I've been really happy with the Sims 4 traits/emotions other than that I would love more of them. And I would love the traits to open up more interactions with objects. And also more dialogue choices for each category, usually there is a few in social and maybe one in funny. I agree if you play autonomously then they should do things connected to their traits more often. And maybe they could add hobbies as well to trigger actions. I don't play autonomously, but if I did I'd want my Bookworms to choose reading, Outdoor Sims to garden or go fishing etc.
I play based on their core identity traits, so if they're bookworms, I like to make them read or write. If they're outdoor Sims, I like to make them go fishing, etc. The emotional moodlets that come up when I make them do things that match their trait feel more like a reward for me, for making the Sim happy by making them do things they would want to. And I rotate, so if I feel like fishing, camping, gardening, I'll pick an outdoor Sim to play because I like to see the moodlets come up. I also love the moodlets like the fancy soap etc. the ones that come up after you upgrade or add items to the house and feel they are for me as well and I really enjoy seeing them. It doesn't really connect with me that those emotions are my Sims identity, just that they are happy because they are looked after. I want to see always green, purple or pink boxes and I get really happy when I see a big long line of pretty moodlet boxes. I want them not to close in little lines when they're so many. I would want a big, long line all the way across the bottom of my screen in green, purple, pink, light blue boxes.
One difference between me and some other players - not judging, is that I don't play with a lot of autonomy. I queue up tasks for my sims and I'll sometimes line up multiple actions one right after another, but I'm basically directly my sims. I may change my mind on something based on things that happen such as a certain townie walking by or a certain need for my sim to fulfill. Generally though, I actively play my sims rather than just watching them. I tend to base the decisions they make on the traits that they are assigned.
But yeah, I agree with you that I like that there is the opportunity for more subtlety in terms of reactions. Not all of my sims cheat on their significant others (many do not), it used to annoy me in TS3 or TS2 when the spouse would basically automatically know that something had happened rather than finding it out by observing themselves. I get it with the rumors, I just found it to be unrealistic for the reaction to be so automatic.
These sound very close to how I play. I was never a huge fan of TS3 because so much was forced onto me as a player and honestly I had to adjust my typical playing style to accommodate the game. I like TS4 now because it does allow for a lot of player control and I guess I do use traits and emotions as guidelines, more so than an imperative in my sims' lives. I'm not so big on sims surprising me with their behavior - I'm a very Controlling God. So I create an evil sim and am happy to direct him to go around tormenting people using mischievous and mean interactions. I have an evil Mad Scientist right now and he likes to garden, so I had him find a cowplant berry and the goal is to get rid of all the townies who never age or die. Perhaps he's not unique in the game per se, but he's unique to me because of the narrative I've created around him and for me, that's enough.
But I do appreciate that this is mostly a constructive and interesting thread.
Disagree. I"ve had Sims with mean, evil, dastardly and hot-headed traits, and when I send them to a bar or club, they're just as friendly and outgoing as Sims with all good traits. Same with the loner trait. I'll get the yellow loner warning that pops up in social situations, but it doesn't impact their social skills at all.
And this leads me to why I've been playing TS4 far less lately. The Sims behaviors have become so repetitive and lacking in individualiy that I've become bored. There are no surprises, I already know what to expect.
Comments
This too! Thank you. I agree that sims should have fun doing things they're interested in.
I always found it odd that my creative sim would be too uncomfortable to do things like paint, or write. That's pretty opposite of RL too IMO. I'm a fairly creative person and when I am uncomfortable, sad, or upset in any way at all, I retreat back to draw or write and it calms me and brings me back to happy. The fact that sims have to be happy (or any of the positive emotions) to do these things is just strange to me. There's the "sad" painting they can do, but any sim can do that regardless of what traits they have or don't have. Something like a creative sim should be able to paint, write or play an instrument no matter what mood they are in, and it should provide them with fun and a quicker timer for the moodlet to disappear. Same as an athletic sim might jog or work out to get through some of the tougher emotions.
I feel like it worked this way in past sims games and I guess I expected it work like this for our "smartest sims yet".
The other thing is that the game doesn't take them into account when choosing npcs to do things like fishing and jogging in your neighborhood. Or who rushes to play the big arcade game, or hit the dance floor, play on the computer, etc. So while they may affect emotions on npcs, and they may change the way your own sims act while you are playing them, It's hard to tell they are doing much for townies.
And like I posted before (and other people mentioned their effect) most buffs are too long, because they override a sim's traits.
This is why I got a lot of mods for new traits. I highly encourage it for those who are cool with mods. Some of my favorites are the Pre-teen and zodiac traits as well as Green Thumb and Pianist.
I understand that you mean the emotions are the problem, not the traits, but without the emotions would there be traits in TS4?
Like gloomy, hot-headed, family-oriented, jealous, clumsy (which can get you playful) etc, or like the person you quoted mentioned, an active sim can wake up feeling energised. What else do they give your sim that makes them feel unique?
Without the emotions in the game, majority (if not all) traits don't matter. Jealous? Well without the tense emotion it doesn't really do much... And I consider jealous to be one of the stronger traits.
I agree with you that I wished sims reacted differently to different thing, like not all sims should get angry because of X or all sims get sad because of Y. (Like why does my evil sim cry and get a sad emotion that last a lifetime because the elder sim SHE just gave a death flower arrangement to, died?)
But I personally think traits are just as bad. They are too tied to emotions (and not just the actually emotional traits like cheerful etc).
Think of a trait and then remove all the emotional buffs it gives, what else is there?
yep nothing, i agree with you ts4 traits rely too much on emotions. they should at least work like ts3 traits, or at least devs could add more emotions. but traits need a whole rework for the sims autonomous interactions, their behavior, etc.
on ts4, vegetarian sims eat meat and lazy sims do pushups autonomously, gloomy sims tend to be happy and evil sims are saints.
and many other inconsistencies.
this is not smart coding and there is no excuse, devs didn't go "beyond" the rules just cuz irl someone lazy can exercise. no, if i make a lazy sim it should be annoyed, like if i make it jog or clean or whatever but they're happy with their grin laughing at me for still playing this game lmao
An evil sim that's angry should act much more brutal towards others than a sim who isn't evil, that evil sim should also target sims they know they'll get a stronger reaction from while avoiding sims who might challenge their evilness. A loner sim who is tense should actively avoid large crowd of strangers while also sticking close to those they are familiar with, as if they were a lost puppy. A genius sim who is embarrassed because they failed a logic based activity should refine the skill or activity they failed at. None of this type of behaviour is in the game.
This sums it up perfectly
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
I can only look back on the time I had a heck of a lot of fun with the Jealous Trait but it was mod-driven, with autonomy-enhancements. What happened in that scenario, was epic: My guy was a piano player, and saw his wife being with another man, and he was VERY upset, cried, but then flew into a righteous rage and provoked the other man, who provoked him back and it was on. I was sure the other man was going to win the fight, but my Jealous Husband mopped the floor with the offender and couldn't seem to figure out what to do, he was so angry with his cheating wife, but that need to stake his claim was running really high and he did the Frenzied Kiss interaction that I had only seen when a couple fought, like once before. Later on at home, she initiated some kind of woohoo that I almost never saw, some kind of Make-up woohoo, I forget what it was called...that was something...I have never in my life had "make-up woohoo" but it looks so good it might almost be worth trying on purpose.
But something happened some time later that it seemed like the autonomy mods weren't working nearly as well as before, and everything became very tame again. And my Jealous sims were just these people who got Tense whenever Sweetums wasn't around, then maybe needed to vent about it when Sweetums came home. That's just insecurity. Jealousy is a kind of possessiveness that doesn't mean you can't stand to be apart, you're not clingy and needy...you just want to stake your claim, let your beloved know they are YOURS and no one else's.
They did make a stab at it with the "All Mine!" moodlet. But that makes me think more of an ice cream sundae xD Maybe it's the same feeling. Not wanting to share your sundae.
I have no idea how they'd make it more vivid...that Frenzied Kiss, the fight, the passion, the makeup woohoo, were pretty cool to have happen autonomously. I need to go make some awful relationship drama again in a game and test it out. Maybe sentiments will change something, but I don't have Snowy Escapes.
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
These sound very close to how I play. I was never a huge fan of TS3 because so much was forced onto me as a player and honestly I had to adjust my typical playing style to accommodate the game. I like TS4 now because it does allow for a lot of player control and I guess I do use traits and emotions as guidelines, more so than an imperative in my sims' lives. I'm not so big on sims surprising me with their behavior - I'm a very Controlling God. So I create an evil sim and am happy to direct him to go around tormenting people using mischievous and mean interactions. I have an evil Mad Scientist right now and he likes to garden, so I had him find a cowplant berry and the goal is to get rid of all the townies who never age or die. Perhaps he's not unique in the game per se, but he's unique to me because of the narrative I've created around him and for me, that's enough.
But I do appreciate that this is mostly a constructive and interesting thread.
And this leads me to why I've been playing TS4 far less lately. The Sims behaviors have become so repetitive and lacking in individualiy that I've become bored. There are no surprises, I already know what to expect.