Honestly I think you've missed a whole lot of what's come before and I think it's a shame you have @TanyaRubirose because there really has been a lot of communication from the community in many different forms that have been effective. It's almost like you've missed a chapter of the story in a book and you've reached a conclusion without the crucial moments to consider.
First of all-anyone who believes they are a 'leader' is starting from a place that's never going to work anyway. You need to be encouraging people to communicate effectively as individuals.
I'm not a 'leader' in what I've done for example. I've just been (without expecting it when I started the thread) an advocate for people to share what they think on the family thread and in communication with gurus and others have given my experiences as someone who has taken the time to listen to common themes from a wide variety of customers and learnt from all sorts of sources to form my view of the situation. It's nothing more than what anyone else could do and routinely do.
The sims community has some very talented and articulate members who take their time to educate themselves from all sorts of opinions on TS4. I'm pretty sure that's been part of the issue for EA-they were under an impression that simmers will buy anything and even said so pre release. TS4 has been different because people wanted to know 'why' things happened after release and despite attempts to hide Olympus it's now common knowledge. It has influenced people's opinions and the continued silence in regards to it has been an issue in itself. Yes the gurus may have done a great job rescuing it in the time they had-but for many people the issue is the customers are still the ones suffering when this game had no mitigation in price to excuse the unfinished state. If EA had said 'we aren't finished but by all means buy at 30% off and we will gradually rebuild the game' it would be a different story.
@sparkfairy1 I think the part you missed is that I've seen how this community communicates. I was here for Sims 3. I saw the efforts they put in. Some of those were intensely massive. Extremely creative. People put in massive amounts of effort.
And in the end, most of those were not enough.
No, that is not going to be a pill people enjoy swallowing. But it's also a simple fact. It wasn't enough.
So, fine. We need an all-out, massive effort on every form of communication. One that draws the interest of news agencies. Because that's what's worked in the past.
And, personally, right now my interest in this is on the wane. I've discussed it too long. It's gone from something I cared about to, for just the moment, an intellectual puzzle I don't even feel enough energy to solve. Which means I need to take a break and recharge. Shall we pick this up again in a couple days, if the topic is still open?
I feel like everyone is getting pretty down lately that the various strategies for communication aren't being heard, and I think that frustration shows in this thread. @TanyaRubirose and @sparkfairy1 are both on the same page when it comes to wanting to see improvement, and wanting the players to be heard, but I don't think anyone really has the answer here. It would be a beautiful dream to get the entire community working together, but the fact is the community is splintered. Many love s4. Many new players don't get what all the fuss is about, and others who disliked toddler gameplay in previous games are actually relieved that they are gone. Some people can't picture that the life state could ever be done to their satisfaction within this engine and have given up. There are a million different nuanced reactions to the omission of family play in s4, and for that reason it is a very tall order to ask the whole player group to work together on this. There have been days when the entire feedback section has been filled with posts about toddlers - one day it was literally every post had either toddler or family in the title, I lol'd! I think that's about as loud as we can be! Twitter, facebook, comments on other third party sites... just glancing at those comments shows me that family play is a recurring theme, but there are others in the community bent on telling people to stop requesting it because they're sick of hearing it. It's become a divisive issue, and I think EA is banking on that. They are hoping the side of the community that is satisfied with S4 and doesn't see a need for more FP will be big enough to support the game through it's lifespan. Without sales numbers, I don't know if that is going to prove true, I think it's a gamble. I think at this point I am only still hanging around 1. in case they actually do announce somethig, and more so 2. to make sure I'm on record so that there is a chance that my concerns will be heard as they work on S5. If they do not work on S5 and instead move all their resources to the ap games either pre existing ones or new ones, then in my mind the battle is lost. But that is not yet certain, and so here I am. Shouting into the wind, in the hopes that someone somewhere in Maxis head quarters will listen, and act.
Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left it's seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed
By the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs
That voices never share
And no one dare
Disturb the sound of silence
"Fools" said I, "you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon God they made
And the sign flashed out it's warning
And the words that it was forming
And the sign said
"The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered in the sound of silence
No battle, no peace, no testiments ever not made ever made the world a better place. As the song says - Silence like a cancer grows - is exactly what silence is, nothing more. It is a cancer and solves nothing.
@TanyaRubirose all the while you are arguing that anything everyone else does amounts to nothing you'll never see anyone 'rise up' and bother to do anything. Fact is people are tired because they've all been doing a lot since the base was released. You may think it's pointless but customers have been very effective in getting heard outside of EA even if the company don't have their listening ears on. That will mean a legacy of when EA tries to claim those customers didn't want a new game there will be plenty of outside sources to point to which illustrate the opposite. It effectively counters the claim and also the claim that simmers are unreasonable made by some.
Except I'm not arguing that anything everyone does amounts to nothing. The argument along those lines was made in this post. I'm arguing we need to try something the community hasn't done before very frequently.
And, yeah, they'll still try to spin it. Like they tried with SimCity. And it doesn't matter if you call them out on it; end of the day, they still ended the studio that produced those games.
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
Yeah. And most people ignored it. EA continues to rake in the profits.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
The community itself needs to be more cohesive in its stance. And needs to be a lot louder. So far, what I'm seeing are the standard complaint-style threads that went mostly ignored in the Sims 3 era. Not the massive flood of "oh plum no" to Sims 4 that followed the debut of SimCity and its failure, and which continued all the way up until Sims 4 was released to a degree.
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
TS4 is probably also in a bit of a holding pattern; they're stringing out the EPs and GPs because they need to make it last 5 years while they develop Sims 5. That could be why we get those so infrequently, and get a lot of SPs in the meantime. They only have so much content they can add, they know it, and they're trying to make it stretch. I've seen that happen too.
You won't find me arguing otherwise that Maxis caused the problems and that EA, now that Maxis is dead, has to fix them. But the success or failure of a game isn't just related to its problems. I've seen very, very good games die simply because no one wanted to play them, and crappy games become series because people bought them a lot for the gimmick they used. It is, to a degree, a two-way relationship. But a boycott takes it further than that.
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
And a repeat of this headache of an argument. Here's the relevant posts on this thread, from him, about whether or not he was talking about boycotting:
His stance, as best as I can tell, is that what he's doing is not a real boycott, but actually is a boycott under the definition of the word "boycott." So whether or not he's talking about boycotting, as per his own words, literally comes down to how you define the word.
Oh for the love of... fine, let's call it a BOYCOTT. It doesn't come down to how you define the word. I already told you that. I personally boycott companies like Google, McDonald's, Apple, for moral purposes. I'm an ethical consumer and I take boycotting seriously e.g., not only do I not use Google, I set all of its IPs to localhost in my /etc/host file) and educate my friends on alternative services--I actively try to encourage my friends not to use these services. For me and me alone a boycott is something you do because you're taking a moral stance. Frankly this is NOT the definition of boycott--it's just my definition of boycott. I don't consider what I'm doing boycotting because this is just a game... I'm not trying to make a difference in the world... I'm just trying to enjoy the only video game I play which currently s_u_cks right now, and I'm refusing to support the Sims until they make it playable. Do I want people who enjoy the game to stop buying more content? Absolutely not. Do I want people who are unhappy to stop buying more content? Absolutely.
Please get over the semantics. It detracts from the argument and it sounds like you're just trying to win a debate and not even trying to think critically about what we're saying. So if it will get you off the "real boycott" nonsense as of today, let's assume that I firmly believe this is a boycott. You cannot say that I'm not boycotting because now A. I am using the definition of the word the way it is supposed to be used. B. I'm not making up my own definitions. And I'm not going to accept you doing that either because I never intended my definition to be the sole basis of an argument--that is just ridiculous.
Anyway... now that a "boycott" premise is established, I'm more interested in of what it is you're trying to convince us. I have a question for you: why does it bother you so much that we are boycotting? How does what we do affect you in anyway? Per your earlier comments we kill the franchise, but later you said we just generate more sales, so that means that we are helping you. You seem to feel really strongly about people boycotting and yet, you keep saying that it doesn't work--who cares about rainy days in other countries?!
If we do nothing--it doesn't affect you or your game play. If we generate sales--it benefits you and your game play. I think you're being hyperbolic about "killing the game" so I'm not going to acknowledge that, it's up to fans of the game to ensure that franchise stays alive so that's on your wallet--not ours. People who are boycotting do not want the Sims to continue if it continues down the same route.
The fact is some people not liking a product will never bring a GOOD product down - because it is well known in the world of products nothing sells a product better than word of mouth - and word of mouth goes both ways - as there will always be both good and bad reports from consumers, but people showing happy and joyous fun in their game constantly with no buts every where you turn - makes more people pay attention. People being able to play their games day after day with no issues - with no complaints is what sells the product if the product is truly designed to make all types of players happy with the game and not just this or that group. Nothing can turn away folks from a game faster than a game that caters only to one type of player and gives nothing to the rest of the fans. That is not the consumers fault but the fault of those making the game that could not think outside their mentality box for that game. You have to include everybody in an equation - because when you start stepping on any one group in favor of another group - there is going to be problems - and often problems have some very loud voices. If the voices are considered well liked and well known people - well sooner or later their voices will be heard.
I know when I want info on new products - I don't go to the companies that made them I go to the consumers who used those products over the years - and the more experienced the consumer is with that product - the more I am inclined to listen to what they have to say.
If this game fails it will fail because as many of us said it only cater to part of the users of the Sims games - and we would have to be blind not to see those failures too whether or not we played their play style or not - seeing sooner or later it might be our own play style affected by the next launch of shallowness in the game. Used to be I had no qualms of playing the Sims with all ages of my family members sitting beside me and observing - the Sims was practically a teaching tool - but now it is just a shallow empty void - of what it used to be. Play with life my eye. Who out there lives the Sims 4 life? Really? Ask yourself that question. In a game about life if you cannot recreate your own life in there somewhere - the game fails. It is not a game about life - it is a fantasy for YA's at the most and even then barely slides under the fence.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
This about sums up the past 6 pages, haha.
I lost interest in trying to explain myself, but at least people understand us. It's just hard to discuss things when the goalposts are constantly being moved.
This about sums up the past 6 pages, haha.
I lost interest in trying to explain myself, but at least people understand us. It's just hard to discuss things when the goalposts are constantly being moved.
To be fair, the goalposts were moved by neither side. I said that boycotting doesn't work. I was told that the other items didn't work, including my own suggestion towards the end. Given that my last suggestion had worked before in Sims history, that's rather surprising.
We're stuck at the point where the goalpost seems to lie at either "start a disrupting level of noise that doesn't end no matter how tired people get" or "buy the friggin' company."
Unfortunately, it seems that half of EA's profits are now coming from their mobile division, so it's entirely possible the first option isn't on the table.
Unless someone has a suggestion that hasn't been tried already and is possible, and doesn't just give EA what they want, we're stuck with no solution.
I have a question for you: why does it bother you so much that we are boycotting?
Because companies like EA do care about the semantics. It's an excuse to file an entire set of complaints into an ignore category. It's an excuse to be able to say they're not doing what players want because some players took an antagonistic attitude. It's an excuse to deride and ignore those complaints as not being complaints of their actual customers, but of people trying to disrupt the community and sales.
It's giving them exactly what they want. That's why. And it bothers me more that it's so friggin' obvious and people can't see it.
I am not sure that the people who are actively not buying the game and/or are actively boycotting it is going to have that great of a effect on EA, unless EA decides to listen. I think the company and the developers expect a certain amount of the players to be unhappy and that the players will express this. There is nothing wrong with this. Unfortunately the game does not offer much for all game styles and is found lacking across the board. I don't think the intention of these people is to bring the franchise to a end. They have loved playing the game in the past as well. I do not see them as any different from the people who love Sims 4. It is to try to improve the game overall. Which gets back to EA listening. It is really what the company does with it. They know or should know that they are sitting on a goldmine. Do they want to bring home the gold? If they do listen, it benefits us all.
How do you get them to listen if they don't want to listen and look for excuses not to listen? The answer isn't to readily hand them excuses they can use.
But, like I said up above... At this point, I don't think that question has an answer now.
Because companies like EA do care about the semantics. It's an excuse to file an entire set of complaints into an ignore category. It's an excuse to be able to say they're not doing what players want because some players took an antagonistic attitude.
Interesting belief. Do you have facts where EA with one of its cash cow products has ever put that mentality forward?
It looks to me like you're not new around these parts, but I'm going to make the assumption that you haven't been around in awhile.. why? Because you clearly have missed the wave of people already crying out absolutely everywhere -- to the point topics were merged on the forum. Toddlers have been cried for since day 1 -- you can't flip through the forum and not find a page in GD or Feedback that has the word 'toddler' right in the title.
People have begged to have culling fixed. Topic upon topic, people have cried out for this to be fixed -- what did EA do on it's latest release for an EP? They added Relationship Culling on top of it.
People have cried out on more than just the boards. YouTube videos are completely littered with negative comments, FB is, other boards I frequent where people who love sim-like games won't even touch this series because of its missing features.. Reddit, twitter, anything that is social media. Online articles have been created. Do you know what all of these platforms do not have in common?
One thing that everyone is crying for.
You can't make 'one omg super loud' voice. EVERYONE wants something different. Bob over there? He wants toddlers. More than anything. Cindy, beside him? She'll buy toddlers if they come out, because she buys every pack imaginable.. but it's not really what she wants. All she wants is for Open World to be back. That's her bread and butter. And Danny? Well, if they add toddlers before Seasons, he's throwing his game out the window.
It's absolutely endearing that you feel EA cares about semantics on a forum. By all means, continue to create pages upon pages of a topic based on one 'word' that throws you off -- you continue smearing finger paint over in that corner haphazardly, and we'll go back to our corner with our crayons and continue to color inside the lines. Because at the end of the day, EA cares about people's money talking -- and as long as the product is selling enough for them to profit from, they'll continue doing what it is they want.
The 'boycott' was created to show people just how powerful them not purchasing one expansion pack would be if they were upset with the game - it wasn't a signed contract where people absolutely had to uphold anything. It was simply a statement and it served its purpose. So please, feel free to continue arguing semantics.. at the end of the day, it's really not the point nor was it ever.
A business that listens to its customers feedback generally brings success. A business that does not listen to the feedback of its customers will ultimately suffer some serious consequences. It would be more prudent of EA to listen to the customer feedback, both good and bad, in any of their games. You need to be able to see and understand what the needs and expectations are. It never pays to annoy or alienate your customer.
A business that listens to its customers feedback generally brings success. A business that does not listen to the feedback of its customers will ultimately suffer some serious consequences. It would be more prudent of EA to listen to the customer feedback, both good and bad, in any of their games. You need to be able to see and understand what the needs and expectations are. It never pays to annoy or alienate your customer.
Exactly right. Even the largest corporations need their customers. Never too big to fail.
I had to work overnight and it's kept me entertained and awake, so thanks to everyone that participated.
As far as a "boycott" goes, I haven't bought anything Sims 4 related because I don't like the game in it's current form and really don't like the way EA/Maxis tried to double talk during the initial release. One minute there were toddlers/all the basics included and it was all good to preorder (just a small $100 investment and the prospect of a monthly paywall ) with no worries. The next minute, in much quieter tones, there were no longer going to be toddlers/all the basics included, but never mind that and please don't cancel your preorders because it will all definitely maybe happen someday probably.
That type of thing doesn't work on me. No game or product in the world is going to get my money when that's how customers are treated before the thing is even released and the game doesn't even make up for it. Lol. No. I'll survive without the Sims 4 experience.
So am I boycotting? Yeah. I don't like the way the company treated it's customers with the preorder double-talk nor do I like the changes (removals of functionality) to the product. Do I expect others to boycott with me? Nah. It's honestly not that deep. If the company wants to kill off the Sims franchise over toddlers and terrible customer interactions, I'm not bothered either way. I've got my old games on disc and backed up all over the place, so they can feel free to make these "innovative" business choices all they want. I'll still pop in to forums to state my opinion and agree with those simmers still fighting the good fight though, I've played enough Sims in my life and given enough money, I feel I've earned my say so. And if they want me to sign their boycott lists, I'll do that too, even if it's purely symbolic and goes no where. So I'm not boycotting in the traditional worker's union sense where I'm carrying a sign outside and calling people scabs who buy the game, I harbor no false illusions, that still isn't going to stop me from signing random petitions and disregarding the Sim franchise completely when friends ask my opinion on what games to play.
Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe EA/Maxis will get it together at some point and 4 will be reworked into something fun. Or maybe 5 will be good. All I know is that right now, I'm not buying squat and I don't care what word simmers use to describe that course of action.
Comments
First of all-anyone who believes they are a 'leader' is starting from a place that's never going to work anyway. You need to be encouraging people to communicate effectively as individuals.
I'm not a 'leader' in what I've done for example. I've just been (without expecting it when I started the thread) an advocate for people to share what they think on the family thread and in communication with gurus and others have given my experiences as someone who has taken the time to listen to common themes from a wide variety of customers and learnt from all sorts of sources to form my view of the situation. It's nothing more than what anyone else could do and routinely do.
The sims community has some very talented and articulate members who take their time to educate themselves from all sorts of opinions on TS4. I'm pretty sure that's been part of the issue for EA-they were under an impression that simmers will buy anything and even said so pre release. TS4 has been different because people wanted to know 'why' things happened after release and despite attempts to hide Olympus it's now common knowledge. It has influenced people's opinions and the continued silence in regards to it has been an issue in itself. Yes the gurus may have done a great job rescuing it in the time they had-but for many people the issue is the customers are still the ones suffering when this game had no mitigation in price to excuse the unfinished state. If EA had said 'we aren't finished but by all means buy at 30% off and we will gradually rebuild the game' it would be a different story.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
And in the end, most of those were not enough.
No, that is not going to be a pill people enjoy swallowing. But it's also a simple fact. It wasn't enough.
So, fine. We need an all-out, massive effort on every form of communication. One that draws the interest of news agencies. Because that's what's worked in the past.
And, personally, right now my interest in this is on the wane. I've discussed it too long. It's gone from something I cared about to, for just the moment, an intellectual puzzle I don't even feel enough energy to solve. Which means I need to take a break and recharge. Shall we pick this up again in a couple days, if the topic is still open?
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left it's seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains within the sound of silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed
By the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs
That voices never share
And no one dare
Disturb the sound of silence
"Fools" said I, "you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon God they made
And the sign flashed out it's warning
And the words that it was forming
And the sign said
"The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls"
And whispered in the sound of silence
No battle, no peace, no testiments ever not made ever made the world a better place. As the song says - Silence like a cancer grows - is exactly what silence is, nothing more. It is a cancer and solves nothing.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Oh for the love of... fine, let's call it a BOYCOTT. It doesn't come down to how you define the word. I already told you that. I personally boycott companies like Google, McDonald's, Apple, for moral purposes. I'm an ethical consumer and I take boycotting seriously e.g., not only do I not use Google, I set all of its IPs to localhost in my /etc/host file) and educate my friends on alternative services--I actively try to encourage my friends not to use these services. For me and me alone a boycott is something you do because you're taking a moral stance. Frankly this is NOT the definition of boycott--it's just my definition of boycott. I don't consider what I'm doing boycotting because this is just a game... I'm not trying to make a difference in the world... I'm just trying to enjoy the only video game I play which currently s_u_cks right now, and I'm refusing to support the Sims until they make it playable. Do I want people who enjoy the game to stop buying more content? Absolutely not. Do I want people who are unhappy to stop buying more content? Absolutely.
Please get over the semantics. It detracts from the argument and it sounds like you're just trying to win a debate and not even trying to think critically about what we're saying. So if it will get you off the "real boycott" nonsense as of today, let's assume that I firmly believe this is a boycott. You cannot say that I'm not boycotting because now A. I am using the definition of the word the way it is supposed to be used. B. I'm not making up my own definitions. And I'm not going to accept you doing that either because I never intended my definition to be the sole basis of an argument--that is just ridiculous.
Anyway... now that a "boycott" premise is established, I'm more interested in of what it is you're trying to convince us. I have a question for you: why does it bother you so much that we are boycotting? How does what we do affect you in anyway? Per your earlier comments we kill the franchise, but later you said we just generate more sales, so that means that we are helping you. You seem to feel really strongly about people boycotting and yet, you keep saying that it doesn't work--who cares about rainy days in other countries?!
If we do nothing--it doesn't affect you or your game play. If we generate sales--it benefits you and your game play. I think you're being hyperbolic about "killing the game" so I'm not going to acknowledge that, it's up to fans of the game to ensure that franchise stays alive so that's on your wallet--not ours. People who are boycotting do not want the Sims to continue if it continues down the same route.
I know when I want info on new products - I don't go to the companies that made them I go to the consumers who used those products over the years - and the more experienced the consumer is with that product - the more I am inclined to listen to what they have to say.
If this game fails it will fail because as many of us said it only cater to part of the users of the Sims games - and we would have to be blind not to see those failures too whether or not we played their play style or not - seeing sooner or later it might be our own play style affected by the next launch of shallowness in the game. Used to be I had no qualms of playing the Sims with all ages of my family members sitting beside me and observing - the Sims was practically a teaching tool - but now it is just a shallow empty void - of what it used to be. Play with life my eye. Who out there lives the Sims 4 life? Really? Ask yourself that question. In a game about life if you cannot recreate your own life in there somewhere - the game fails. It is not a game about life - it is a fantasy for YA's at the most and even then barely slides under the fence.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
This about sums up the past 6 pages, haha.
I lost interest in trying to explain myself, but at least people understand us. It's just hard to discuss things when the goalposts are constantly being moved.
To be fair, the goalposts were moved by neither side. I said that boycotting doesn't work. I was told that the other items didn't work, including my own suggestion towards the end. Given that my last suggestion had worked before in Sims history, that's rather surprising.
We're stuck at the point where the goalpost seems to lie at either "start a disrupting level of noise that doesn't end no matter how tired people get" or "buy the friggin' company."
Unfortunately, it seems that half of EA's profits are now coming from their mobile division, so it's entirely possible the first option isn't on the table.
Unless someone has a suggestion that hasn't been tried already and is possible, and doesn't just give EA what they want, we're stuck with no solution.
Because companies like EA do care about the semantics. It's an excuse to file an entire set of complaints into an ignore category. It's an excuse to be able to say they're not doing what players want because some players took an antagonistic attitude. It's an excuse to deride and ignore those complaints as not being complaints of their actual customers, but of people trying to disrupt the community and sales.
It's giving them exactly what they want. That's why. And it bothers me more that it's so friggin' obvious and people can't see it.
But, like I said up above... At this point, I don't think that question has an answer now.
Interesting belief. Do you have facts where EA with one of its cash cow products has ever put that mentality forward?
It looks to me like you're not new around these parts, but I'm going to make the assumption that you haven't been around in awhile.. why? Because you clearly have missed the wave of people already crying out absolutely everywhere -- to the point topics were merged on the forum. Toddlers have been cried for since day 1 -- you can't flip through the forum and not find a page in GD or Feedback that has the word 'toddler' right in the title.
People have begged to have culling fixed. Topic upon topic, people have cried out for this to be fixed -- what did EA do on it's latest release for an EP? They added Relationship Culling on top of it.
People have cried out on more than just the boards. YouTube videos are completely littered with negative comments, FB is, other boards I frequent where people who love sim-like games won't even touch this series because of its missing features.. Reddit, twitter, anything that is social media. Online articles have been created. Do you know what all of these platforms do not have in common?
One thing that everyone is crying for.
You can't make 'one omg super loud' voice. EVERYONE wants something different. Bob over there? He wants toddlers. More than anything. Cindy, beside him? She'll buy toddlers if they come out, because she buys every pack imaginable.. but it's not really what she wants. All she wants is for Open World to be back. That's her bread and butter. And Danny? Well, if they add toddlers before Seasons, he's throwing his game out the window.
It's absolutely endearing that you feel EA cares about semantics on a forum. By all means, continue to create pages upon pages of a topic based on one 'word' that throws you off -- you continue smearing finger paint over in that corner haphazardly, and we'll go back to our corner with our crayons and continue to color inside the lines. Because at the end of the day, EA cares about people's money talking -- and as long as the product is selling enough for them to profit from, they'll continue doing what it is they want.
The 'boycott' was created to show people just how powerful them not purchasing one expansion pack would be if they were upset with the game - it wasn't a signed contract where people absolutely had to uphold anything. It was simply a statement and it served its purpose. So please, feel free to continue arguing semantics.. at the end of the day, it's really not the point nor was it ever.
Exactly right. Even the largest corporations need their customers. Never too big to fail.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I had to work overnight and it's kept me entertained and awake, so thanks to everyone that participated.
As far as a "boycott" goes, I haven't bought anything Sims 4 related because I don't like the game in it's current form and really don't like the way EA/Maxis tried to double talk during the initial release. One minute there were toddlers/all the basics included and it was all good to preorder (just a small $100 investment and the prospect of a monthly paywall
That type of thing doesn't work on me. No game or product in the world is going to get my money when that's how customers are treated before the thing is even released and the game doesn't even make up for it. Lol. No. I'll survive without the Sims 4 experience.
So am I boycotting? Yeah. I don't like the way the company treated it's customers with the preorder double-talk nor do I like the changes (removals of functionality) to the product. Do I expect others to boycott with me? Nah. It's honestly not that deep. If the company wants to kill off the Sims franchise over toddlers and terrible customer interactions, I'm not bothered either way. I've got my old games on disc and backed up all over the place, so they can feel free to make these "innovative" business choices all they want. I'll still pop in to forums to state my opinion and agree with those simmers still fighting the good fight though, I've played enough Sims in my life and given enough money, I feel I've earned my say so. And if they want me to sign their boycott lists, I'll do that too, even if it's purely symbolic and goes no where. So I'm not boycotting in the traditional worker's union sense where I'm carrying a sign outside and calling people scabs who buy the game, I harbor no false illusions, that still isn't going to stop me from signing random petitions and disregarding the Sim franchise completely when friends ask my opinion on what games to play.
Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe EA/Maxis will get it together at some point and 4 will be reworked into something fun. Or maybe 5 will be good. All I know is that right now, I'm not buying squat and I don't care what word simmers use to describe that course of action.