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My confusion about "Gameplay" and the supposed lack thereof in packs

Comments

  • MoonfoxNightcryMoonfoxNightcry Posts: 232 Member
    edited November 2020
    My personal opinion of how to improve gameplay depth:

    1. Add a chemistry system.
    Like Sims 2: you choose (or randomise) two turn ons and two turn offs (a skill, trait or physical characteristic). Now your sim relationships are affected by whether the object of their affection has those traits, with romantic relationships an absolute dream if you find someone who fits your personality and turns ons, or it could be doomed if you conflict.

    2. Interests, fears and favourites.
    Again, to choose or randomise. This also affects both whims, autonomous actions, emotional influence and relationships - meet someone else who also loves cheesecake and sports and become fast best friends. Also, I want my sims to be scared to death sometimes too, or be too afraid to do certain things in case they come across one of their fears.

    3. Consequences!!!
    In the two listed above, consequences would be built in. For example, if a potential partner turns out to have two of your turns offs, you will never fall in love with them. If you have no mutual interests with your neighbour, it’s going to be super hard to establish or maintain a friendship. I also want long lasting consequences of actions, like grudges (might be in the new sentiments feature) that make sims kick over your trash, steal your mail, harass you in public, spread rumours. I want a sim to hate their partner for cheating, or to be happy all week when they get promoted.

    4. Random chances
    Bring back the burglar! More chance cards for careers. Rumours around town, surprise pregnancies, sudden death from fear exposure, aspiration failure. I miss the quirkiness from Sims 1 and 2.

    5. More traits, aspirations and careers.
    That are not pack or area specific! I want more really general traits and aspirations that give us flexibility in creating more unique Sims. Paired with this is that some interactions, whims and relationship impacts are exclusive to certain traits - and no, I don’t mean stupid titles like “angry poop”, but actual actions and effects.

    6. Sims 2 style memories/album
    Photos of the active family that I can add to the house album, write little captions, and feel the progression of time, the significance of moments, and remember my sim stories. I’m not someone who posts to Tumblr. After a while of rotational play, I forget what got my sim to this point and I stop caring.

    7. Create a world / Neighbourhood edit
    Let us place or remove lots and decorations. Let us build a map from scratch! I’m sick of having awkwardly placed lots, ugly decorations or just things that don’t fit my plans. The Sims is about creativity - let us create our own worlds. There are worlds I don’t play in at all because I hate something about every lot - something I could just delete, or maybe add some trees, or change the terrain, or build a “driveway” if we could edit the neighbourhood.

    Gameplay objects are great, but they’re one-and-done. An actual system that affects various elements of a sims personality and interactions is what I want in deeper gameplay. Hopefully lifestyles and sentiments are a step in the right direction, but I’m worried that lifestyles are just the name for performing activities related to traits we’ve had in game for a long time, with no new consequences or interactions.

    Bottom line is: I want limitations and consequences. I want my sims to really hit an impass sometimes - be rejected with no chance of just trying again later, or just never build that connection no matter how many jokes I tell. The Sims 4 is boring because you can always work through a downfall, so nothing matters in the end.
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 4,534 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Yeah I don't agree at all with any of your statements, but you do you I guess.

    It doesn't matter if you agree; facts are that's how inflation works.
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 1,633 Member
    edited November 2020
    Not to be rude but what's the point in making a thread asking this question and then ignoring everyone answering? A lot of people have given in depth and very reasonable explanations but you've completely skipped over them and only acknowledged the people agreeing with you or youve selected one line you can disagree with and ignored the rest
    ts4-paranormal-reveal-blog-screenshot-2.png.adapt.crop16x9.320w.png

    Please help out and click me too on this Answers HQ bug report. I've been reporting it for months but still no luck and me too's are the only way of getting it noticed.
    The link is here, it only takes a few seconds to click the me too button and would greatly help!
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,050 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Yeah I don't agree at all with any of your statements, but you do you I guess.

    It doesn't matter if you agree; facts are that's how inflation works.

    Inflation didn’t make Sims 4 a low budget game. If inflation was an issue then we would see this across all EA games, if not the entire video game industry. Plenty of $40 games are higher quality than Sims 4, and Sims 4 was $60 with $40 dlc’s.

    What EA has done with 4 is slash the budget while maintaining the same markup price that the dlc has historically had. This has nothing to do with inflation, and everything to do with EA milking Sims players for as much as they can get while putting in the bare minimum.
  • HayleeSimsHayleeSims Posts: 108 Member
    edited November 2020
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    HayleeSims wrote: »
    Resorts, houseboats, jet skis, lifeguard career etc were all available in other worlds if you put them there.
    @HayleeSims resorts were my biggest dissapointment in the pack. Sims 3 failed to provide us a business EP, I was hoping I could at least run a hotel like a normal proper Sims 2 style business and it came with rabbit hole. This is not what I wanted. Other stuff... don't make much sense in Twinbrook. I would left this EP in my game and use some of it but... You couldn't have Sims 3 pack in your game unless it's a must for you. On most PCs you couldn't.

    My game could survive only couple EPs installed. But how do you play Sims 3 without Generations, Seasons, Ambitions, Pets and Uni? So I bought a nice new PC just to play Sims 3. And I still had to save every ten minutes. I would have a save error after an hour of playing. (Two hours if the game was generous). Then I would exit the game. Remove cashe. Reload the game (30 min loading screen). Play for another hour.

    This is why I don't see a point comparing Sims 3 and Sims 4 "gameplay". Can the game save? If the answer is 'no', there is no further comparison. The game failed at basic functionality. When I look at a chair with four legs and at a chair with two legs, I don't compare their design and artistic quality. Four legs chair functions, two leg chair doesn't. Even if two leg chair would be the most beautifull chair in the world if it had all legs it doesn't matter. And it's not the case with sims 3. Not the best sims game even if it functions.

    I can play Sims 3 now, on even more advanced PC, but it doesn't matter now, it's six years too late. The game had to function on the computers players had at the time.

    I actually find it boring comparing to Sims 4. I want emotions, sims are just so... lifeless without them now. I want restaraunts and spas that are not rabbit holes. I want celebrities that make sense. I want my sims to choose their social groups, not be forced into them. I want my sims to be business owners not investors. I want other players creations one click away. And I want some sims on the lots. My sim would go to a hot spot in Bridgeport and there are two sim there - him and the barmen. For real? It's revisiting Sims 3 that made me realise how awesome nd underappreciated Sims 4 is.

    I can play Sims 2 because it has some amazing features, but Sims 3... uninstalled it recently to free some disc space.
    Somebody sure doesn't like the Sims 3 lmao! It's fine but don't act like Sims 4 isn't also filled to the brim with rabbit holes and emotions are in dept when they are controlled by +1 moodlets. Not to mention you have to pay for 3 packs just to get what Late Night had. Never had problems with booting the sims 3 even on my grandmother's 10-year-old computer so you should speak for yourself.

    I just cannot play a pack where the world is small, the lifeguard career is a rabbit hole, the toddler swimming animation is reused, you cannot go underwater, the conservation career can only be done on one island, the festivals are boring, the odd jobs get repetitive, the neighbors get stuck when they try and help you and much more.
    Post edited by HayleeSims on
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 2,165 Member
    Not all resorts have rabbit holes.You can build a resort yourself !
  • phantom121294phantom121294 Posts: 151 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Man, this is something that simmers really don't seem to have much realization about. Inflation is definitely an important factor. The EPs have been the same exact price since Sims 1. So for 20 years they've never changed the price to reflect new tech and higher wages. Developers do have to be paid, expenses exist and marketing needs to be done. I play a thirteen year old MMO and their EPs are way higher now than they were in the first couple of years of operation. Most of the other games, particularly triple A games, have a much higher cost now for that kind of thing. And they usually have tiers for special content added to each version of the EP that goes even higher, some over $100.

    This is why I feel like the EPs really need to be bumped up by five or ten dollars to expand the budget a little and make them feel worth it. They should have considered this in the first year when players were complaining there wasn't enough in the packs. But I think EA is trying their own version of "microtransactions" by trying to keep the packs affordable, albeit with less in them. I feel like they don't want to make chunky packs anymore, they want to do more smaller and manageable packs that they can whip up faster and sell a lot of.

    I would have really liked some underwater gameplay for Mermaids and real diving and cave exploring/spelunking in Island Living. Raising the EP prices might have allowed for this.


    This is actually a common misconception that gets thrown around a lot as an excuse for poor quality (less content) or rushed games without any actual understanding how the current markets in contrast to how it used to work. Back in the day games were set at 60 dollars because the market was really small. This was even in the 90's with N64 and original consoles. Even after the rise of gamecube and ps2 the gaming market was growing but still just a small part of the entertainment market and wasn't really pulling in big numbers for anyone except maybe nintendo. When XBOX came to market and started bring LIVE online the whole market started to boom and once ps3 and xbox 360 came online and started dropping cod4 and halo the market surged and gaming became a massive market. If you go to wikipedia you can see this trend if you go to the video game industry page.

    Now developers tell you games are more expensive as an excuse to try and pass off responsibility (sometimes) but really they fail to mention that the ratio of development costs to net profit (not gross) is not 1:1 its not even a negative ratio its more like 1:10 (I am not a statistician I study medicine so that might be incorrect). This is because development costs have not grown as fast as market share. That is to say sales and growth of avalible customers is growing faster than development costs. This means that even if you are paying more money in development you still are making drastically more money than you used to. Example time. Great one too.

    In 2008 gta IV was released to the xbox 360 and ps3 markets. It had a budget of 100 million or so and made roughly 500 million in the first like 6 months world wide. In 2013 developement costs for the next game rose by over double the old development costs. 265 million is the rough budget being thrown around. It broke world wide records that still haven't been broken by any form of entertainment (to my knowledge). It made 814 million.....in one day. It was 1 billion within a few days of release. And due to the new console generations and pc port it has surpassed 6 billion over the course of its life time. The development costs rose by over 100 million but the sales doubled hitting billions more made. The market in 2013 was much larger than the one in 2008 both were 60 dollar games.

    "but those are big studios" also a false assumption as indie devs also see this trend because the market place on steam for indie games and xbox and ps sponsoring and buying small studios to make games has also allowed the rise of many many developers that get good profits for their game. Best part? Some release at lower price points. Hades, northgard, and deep rock galactic to name a few. All games which provide the value of a 20-60 hour game at a price less than half that of big budget studios.

    All these guys are selling you a lie to get more money out of you when they realistically don't need it and I have no problem with that. I mean business is business. Everybody always always wants more including me. The problem is when they try to give you less while charging you more and claiming inflation when its factually not very true.

    TLDR inflation is a myth (in games) used to sell you less for more when its more than feasible to give more and still make huge profits.
    Specs: i9-9900k, SLI 2080ti MSI SeaHawk EK X, 32g 3000hz Corsair RAM, 2TB M.2 Samsung SSD, EVGA 1600W. Custom loop done by myself with dual 560mm radiators.
    JOVa2Sn.jpg


  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 518 Member
    Gameplay, enough or not.. to me (note, only to me) Is up to player.


    Sulani, the so much "nothing to do world".. I make my sims to have lots to do in there, I have a seafood restaurant, nightclub what serves well for weddings too, a spa, very crowded beach what includes pretty much something of every pack I own. I even build EL communitylot there, sims visits all the time to skill, craft, plant , harvest and socialize.
    It is my busiest world, also my favorite.

    Merfolks, festivals, pretty look.. is just a bonus.

    Nuf said --->

    The biggest problem with that is the difference between expectations for a game pack and expansion pack. Sulani does become a do nothing world with very little to do.

    And, I do play most of my game in Sulani, and I have encountered plenty of problems with the lack of playable content that comes with the pack.

    Island Living is Island Living. It was never Eco Lifestyle. It was never Dine Out. It was never Get Together. It was never Spa Day. It was never any of the other packs. I bought most other packs for the choices, but they aren't substitutes for what Island Living should have when I buy the pack.


    In general,

    I have a screenshot of the Beach Cave in first person view. They developed an inside of the cave, but it's a dead end, or maybe just rock textures of sorts. When your sim enters the cave they are staring outside the entrance for the duration of their time in there.

    The deeper water has ground underwater that is completely barren. The only objects underwater are in shallow water. The surface of deeper water hides the barren seafloor. Players are forced out of first person view when the sim dives underwater. I think there's a short diving animation and your sim actually disappears similar to leaving for work.

    There are many things in Sulani that just leave your sim in a loading state as bad as a loading screen and most of the Island Living content is appearances over playability.

    Merfolk, Island Elementals, the festivals, and everything that comes specifically from Island Living is the content that should make Sulani stand out. That is the actual expansion content that players interact with while playing in that world that comes from that world.

    I can see the content for Underwater Lots accumulating into a separate pack that adds more for merfolk to do.

    And, for Island Living, the Mua Pel'am Quest, the Conservationist Career, the Dolphins, the Volcanic Eruptions, the Island Elementals, the Fishing, the Kava Parties, the Life Guard Career, Odd Jobs, Fishing Career, Diver Career, and the Festivals are all great things that will keep you busy.

    However, most of the developed content does not include the oceans surrounding the Sulani Islands. The Free Diving and Beach cave absolutely was a severely missed opportunity. Merfolk do not have content meant for them like other occults do. There is content that needed more development.

    I think they hurt the game by doing too much to hide merfolk.
  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 518 Member
    Also, for gameplay, it is helpful to remember that even if mods and cc exists, that content is not accessible to people that play on the Console. I know that my Playstation 4 is not supported for mods and cc.

    So, some of these problems won't be solved by modders.
  • BuildingTheSimsBuildingTheSims Posts: 92 Member
    edited November 2020
    First of all Sims , is a sandbox game. The game is "about" family traditions, life, career, the journey from life to death. Each pack includes things that enrich sims lives. If a pack does that, then it has replay value. Strangerville did not add replay value , because theres nothing there that enriches relationships, hobbies, passions, lifestyles, its just zombies? :/ .... Snowy Escape however enriches the sims lives a lot from what ive seen and adds a lot of cultural context as well. Im happy !!!
  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 830 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Man, this is something that simmers really don't seem to have much realization about. Inflation is definitely an important factor. The EPs have been the same exact price since Sims 1. So for 20 years they've never changed the price to reflect new tech and higher wages. Developers do have to be paid, expenses exist and marketing needs to be done. I play a thirteen year old MMO and their EPs are way higher now than they were in the first couple of years of operation. Most of the other games, particularly triple A games, have a much higher cost now for that kind of thing. And they usually have tiers for special content added to each version of the EP that goes even higher, some over $100.

    This is why I feel like the EPs really need to be bumped up by five or ten dollars to expand the budget a little and make them feel worth it. They should have considered this in the first year when players were complaining there wasn't enough in the packs. But I think EA is trying their own version of "microtransactions" by trying to keep the packs affordable, albeit with less in them. I feel like they don't want to make chunky packs anymore, they want to do more smaller and manageable packs that they can whip up faster and sell a lot of.

    I would have really liked some underwater gameplay for Mermaids and real diving and cave exploring/spelunking in Island Living. Raising the EP prices might have allowed for this.

    That statement right there is exactly what I've always thought, less for the same price and more often, people will still pay for less content, EA knows this, and if they give less content, then they can divide it up into more smaller packs and make a killing on it. We are never ever, ever going to see full packs again, not in TS4 and probably not in TS5, 6, 7 and so on. They have established a money making scheme in the marketing approach they're currently doing.
  • silentcyborgsilentcyborg Posts: 196 Member
    I play s3 and s4 concurrently. When I say s4 needs more gameplay, it's not that it doesn't have any, but that it is sorely lacking for what I want out of a sandbox game.

    Imo, the newest ep lacks gameplay because:
    -the main activities are tied to one world
    - there are few house-only activites (no mini snow/dirt pile for sledding practice)
    - neighborhoods lack interactive elements (train is set dressing)
    - It re-uses concepts from other packs (eg. climbing from fs, weather from seasons, tents from OR, festivals from CL).
    - Aspirations are tutorials
    - I'm worried lifestyles only effects the mood and not autonomy (same goes for sentiments)

    For me to consider this pack to have enough gameplay for the ep price, I'd like to see something that effects the outside world (eg. build-able hotels with management systems) and more big innovative features (like underwater swimming in s3) that take a while to explore. While lifestyles, hiking and snowboarding are new, they're locked to the world, and/or bg - there's no lifestyles for occults, which inhibits my play style. I'm also dubious about the replayability of the latter 2.

    In general, s4 lacks gameplay for me in that it lacks consequences and autonomy, and has a lot of set-task checklists. For a sandbox game, I'd like more freedom, and a higher chance of random events. For example, sim can go on checklist-free date, and if they date in a club, I want to see sims autonomously fighting, kissing, getting rejected and gossiped about, not just clustering around the dance floor.
  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 518 Member
    edited November 2020
    First of all Sims , is a sandbox game. The game is "about" family traditions, life, career, the journey from life to death. Each pack includes things that enrich sims lives. If a pack does that, then it has replay value. Strangerville did not add replay value , because theres nothing there that enriches relationships, hobbies, passions, lifestyles, its just zombies? :/ .... Snowy Escape however enriches the sims lives a lot from what ive seen and adds a lot of cultural context as well. Im happy !!!

    I use the term merman for myself as a form of identity. My second home was the beach, and I think if I added up all the time I've spent in a pool, in the ocean, or in freshwater springs, it would add up to at least half my life. Diving underwater and swimming IS a lifestyle for me. I don't have to actually be a merman from fantasy to actually do the things a merman would do. And, my records for swimming is 50 yards (25 yard swim lane back and forth) underwater with a single breath, swimming 100 yards freestyle in under a minute (I think I could find the exact times from the competitive swim meet if I googled my name), I can free dive 30 feet underwater, and my feet are size 15 and comparable to flippers with fins, my hands match in size. I have already proven that in the water I can keep up with people wearing fins without fins, and I know this because I completed practice sets without fins because none of the fins the pool provided could fit my feet. I'm very comfortable navigating ocean currents, and as a 7th grader, I was able to pull someone of my same size out of a strong ocean rip current. At the beach, I'm very comfortable swimming in the ocean in spite of rip currents and undertows. Heaven knows that all the time I spent walking up the beach after the current pulled me down the shore and going back into the water is proof of that.

    Content for merfolk might be more accessible for merfolk, but for someone like me that lives and breathes the ocean and swimming, the content I'm looking for would absolutely enrich relationships, hobbies, passions, and life styles. I visited the beach as often as I did visiting my grandparents and all the stuff I do in the water is a combination of hobbies, passions, and life styles combined.

    It is a family tradition to visit the beach and engage in ocean activities. Even after I can no longer visit the condo I visited as a kid, the things I do at the ocean will be something I carry with me and pass down to my children if I have any.

    Island Living comes up short. It does not meet my expectations for doing things in the ocean.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Yeah I don't agree at all with any of your statements, but you do you I guess.

    I bolded the statement I think can apply to any discussion. It's okay to disagree with each other on things.

    I personally feel like we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss outside ideas. I can think of a lot of things I actually think is awesome with Island Living. There is a lot you can do, but they also made a lot of shortcuts and included things that feel incomplete.

    Here's another incomplete feeling feature. The Admiral's Wreckage has a chest that is purely decorative, but the description for the item does peak a player's curiosity without having anything more to add. The chest is locked and has signs of people trying to brake into it. The key was lost a long time ago. This chest's only real function is to be decorative and inflate the value of the lot. But, people have wondered about what is inside the chest.

    It doesn't matter if you agree; facts are that's how inflation works.
    LiELF wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Man, this is something that simmers really don't seem to have much realization about. Inflation is definitely an important factor. The EPs have been the same exact price since Sims 1. So for 20 years they've never changed the price to reflect new tech and higher wages. Developers do have to be paid, expenses exist and marketing needs to be done. I play a thirteen year old MMO and their EPs are way higher now than they were in the first couple of years of operation. Most of the other games, particularly triple A games, have a much higher cost now for that kind of thing. And they usually have tiers for special content added to each version of the EP that goes even higher, some over $100.

    This is why I feel like the EPs really need to be bumped up by five or ten dollars to expand the budget a little and make them feel worth it. They should have considered this in the first year when players were complaining there wasn't enough in the packs. But I think EA is trying their own version of "microtransactions" by trying to keep the packs affordable, albeit with less in them. I feel like they don't want to make chunky packs anymore, they want to do more smaller and manageable packs that they can whip up faster and sell a lot of.

    I would have really liked some underwater gameplay for Mermaids and real diving and cave exploring/spelunking in Island Living. Raising the EP prices might have allowed for this.

    Obviously, it appears that they specifically excluded content to lower the price of the pack, and if that is true, I would expect the rest of the stuff that isn't there to show up later. Honestly, if they give the underwater lots the same attention to detail they gave to the islands, make the lots editable for the player, allow players to choose between living underwater with steam punk submarine content for human sims and ocean themed underwater content for merfolk, add house boats, include a low and high tide in a world, make destinations like what is found in the beach cave explorable, I could see there being enough content to support a new pack that focuses on the ocean. Right now, Island Living's ocean is a dead end with very minimal things to do.
    Post edited by Metior_Ice on
  • auroraael14auroraael14 Posts: 795 Member
    edited November 2020
    I guess for me it's not that it lacks gameplay perse but how they have implemented the gameplay. I want more gameplay between sims. More friendly options that don't involve the same interaction and thought bubbles that accurately describe what a sim is talking about. More romance options and different types of kisses and hugs. Better angry options that reflect the sims emotion appropriately. Different types of dance and sims dancing together. Kids being able to play with other kids and adults. Things like catch, tag, show off. Kids dancing with their parents and annoying their older and younger siblings. I mean we keep getting new gameplay objects but when was the last time we got new friendly/romance/play options with our sims? I guess for me it doesn't matter what new gameplay objects they add to the game if my sims don't get any new interactions and all feel like copies of each other especially when one sim has done it all sims have done it.
    Check out my gallery for house builds! Username: aejp24
  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 518 Member
    edited November 2020
    I guess for me it's not that it lacks gameplay perse but how they have implemented the gameplay. I want more gameplay between sims. More friendly options that don't involve the same interaction and thought bubbles that accurately describe what a sim is talking about. More romance options and different types of kisses and hugs. Better angry options that reflect the sims emotion appropriately. Different types of dance and sims dancing together. Kids being able to play with other kids and adults. Things like catch, tag, show off. Kids dancing with their parents and annoying their older and younger siblings. I mean we keep getting new gameplay objects but when was the last time we got new friendly/romance/play options with our sims? I guess for me it doesn't matter what new gameplay objects they add to the game if my sims don't get any new interactions and all feel like copies of each other especially when one sim has done it all sims have done it.

    I agree with that statement. It doesn't matter if they are occults or not, they copy and paste a lot of interactions. The Seasons Expansion Pack has the satisfaction reward trait Storm Chaser, this trait gives all sims struck by lightning twice the ability "Bring the Lightning" which is the same animation as "Summon Lava Bomb" with Sulani Mana Trait. The only difference is how one is done with electricity and the other is done with fire. Sleeping in the water is the same animation as Back Floating. The Mermaid's Kiss is the same kiss as Kissing in the Water with the only difference being that it is an interaction that can be performed regardless of the social circumstance. The way they get stuff from the Beach Supply Shack in Sulani is identical to how they get stuff from the Vending Machines in Snowy Escape and harvest plants. A lot of stuff becomes dull because of how repetitive the game interactions can get, and I've definitely noticed that they repeat a lot of animations for several different other interactions with other sims, the world around them, and when they use abilities.

    Maybe Sulani, and other packs would feel less like do nothing destinations if the actions were more unique between sims.

    One thing I will say after playing with cursed lot trait and having lots of fires. I'm convinced that Sims do have invisible traits. If my memory serves me, sims are left or right handed. They do become better about extinguishing fires if you have to deal with enough of them. They will display different expressions around the sex they are attracted to. They do have unique behaviors. I left my main genius sim to autonomously do stuff on his own. He spent some time trolling the tech forums, but he's a genius geek that is mentally gifted. After he finished trolling the tech forum, he successfully hacked into the landgrab system when his twin brother, the creatively gifted creative music lover walked in on him. Based on what I've seen him do around the computers, he does have a unique behavior. The creative twin gets randomly happy as a young adult from the Angelic Toddler trait, but for the life of me, I don't understand why he has that trait when he had the Silly trait as a toddler. I think sims in the sims 4 do have a way of being more unique when you leave them alone to do their own thing. Unfortunately, the player really can't control this and they don't do it while you control what they do.
  • Metior_IceMetior_Ice Posts: 518 Member
    edited November 2020
    In a way, Zephyr, my genius twin, has been fun because he's so obviously smart, and it shows in his behaviors, especially when he uses a computer.

    Dylan, my creative twin, is so incredibly laid back and kinda dense. His tendency to be cheerful and happy in spite of most negative conditions has made putting his creative talents to use incredibly easy. It never really shows as much in anything I share, but he's the one that produces the funds for the household he does what I make him do more often than not because he hardly ever has a negative mood.

    I imagine Zephyr to be a calculating and witty genius while Dylan is a relaxed go with the flow type. Before I had to create a new save, the twins would have a happy moodlet whenever they were together for as long as they were near each other. I'm kinda upset that I don't see it there with the new save.

    Sorry, this might've been a little bit off topic, but as for gameplay, I do think certain combinations of traits and interactions through out the game have a way of developing sims. There are some things that just don't seem to come naturally from a sim fresh out of CAS, but they manifest after interacting with things in the game.
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 2,106 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Gameplay huh? 🤔

    For me:
    1. Spending 6 hours getting the perfect ear lobe in CAS.
    2. Spending a week in Build Mode trying to place one single toilet roll holder on the wall in the downstairs bathroom of that starter home.Perfection is key.
    3. Spending an hour staring at a bunch of seagulls walking around on a Brindleton Bay beach.
    4. Spending half an hour following a tumbleweed in Strangerville. They sometimes disappear. So do the floating bags in Eco Town.
    5. Listening to my busker sim for 15 - 20 minutes straight. Love the Latin songs.
    6. Following the maid for a day and see if she really deserves to get paid.
    7. Watching my sim sleep at normal speed. In the cheapest bed.
    8. Watching the curtains move. They move, did you know?
    9. Waiting for the helicopter in Selvadorada to fly over. I love that sound.
    10. Exploring the world in cinematic mode. QWEAS from every angle...

    I had to reread this twice to make sure this wasn't sarcasm. I applaud you for getting your money's worth, but oh my gosh, I could never boot my game up just to watch my Sim sleep in their designated corners for 15 minutes (real time) before switching the view to the same curtains since 2014 swaying from a mysterious draft inside every lot. :lol:

    @Sk8rblaze
    I'm usually quite generous with the self-sarcasm. But wait until I get to number 23 on the list. That's where my game play style gets more adventurous. And I get way more demanding! :D
    @CAPTAIN_NXR7 lol, just the other day I was sat watching the curtains move. But I don't think all of them do. I went around the whole house checking the different ones.

    Should we form a boring simmers group?

    @elanorbreton
    It should be a club activity. Curtain Watching. Fun + 3.

    I don't think the blinds move. Or those short kitchen curtains. Most of the long ones do I believe, but I'll boot up my game now and will have a look. I'm interested.
  • IsharellIsharell Posts: 317 Member
    Sharonia wrote: »
    I don't think the Sims 4 is lacking in game play at all. I do however think that it's lacking in fun game play. The whole go here, click this, rinse and repeat until the task is done

    Funny thing is, this is exactly how 1 2 and 3 also were. That is what the Sims IS. The ghost hunter career in Sims 3? Got to lot, either vacuum small ghosts by clicking on them or talk to large ghosts. Done. Repeat next night.

    Seriously, unless I am going senile here and forget amazing stuff (I owned all of those games), that is how Sims always have been. It's not an RPG, the gameplay has never been as deep as Skyrim even. You wake up, click on toilet, click on fridge, click on shower, go to work, click on toilet, click on fridge, click on TV, click on skill raising equipment for promotion (or in Sims 2, try to juggle 200 friends, which was quite literally Hell), go to bed...

    That's it. That's Sims 1, Sims 2, 3 and 4.


    OMG that was the thing I hated most in Sims 2! Needing all those friends to advance in careers was horrible. I always picked careers that needed the fewest friends :D .Almost all my sims started out in the Military career because they could get to level 5 or so before they needed more than an couple of friends. That gave me the money to build them a little house and get them started well before switching careers and starting the struggle to keep all the friends they needed.

    The thing I miss with Sims 2 were all the romantic actions, the cuddling in bed or making out on the couch and sweet little things like that.


    For me, the gameplay is all in my head. I watch what they do and direct as much or as little as my mood demands. Sometimes I'll just watch with minimal direction or I'll get bored and micromanage them till they've advanced in their career or relationship till I'm satisfied. In the summer I was playing and advancing in careers. Right now I'm bouncing between mostly building and a little playing. Most of my 'stories' come from whatever my sims are doing, like dating the sim I picked for them or raising a family. I'm now toying with setting up backgrounds for some sims, but I don't have any set plan for them, at least not right now. I'm curious to see how that affects my enjoyment.
  • KerriganKerrigan Posts: 329 Member
    For me, missing gameplay is the accumulation of all of the small details and actions that they decided NOT to included since the start of the game. Right off the bat they said "no burglars, no police, no firemen, and no stationary phone" and they continued that trend of not including obvious things with each pack. We have a purchase gifts system, but there won't be a delivery person. We have school for kids but they'll just go wearing whatever clothes they have on because no one would like a uniform or for the kids to even get dressed for school. We have a fitness pack but we're not going to break sports down into sub skills. Everything is just going to feed fitness.

    I brought up fitness and school uniforms because that is perfect example of the Sims 4 team finally paying attention and finally doing something about it. There is still a long way to go.

  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 355 Member
    I didn‘t even know mods were a thing in TS3. In TS4 I have more than 20 mods. This should tell you all.
  • dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 355 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    logion wrote: »
    I often feel that Maxis relies too much on users making their own fun. If the game does not offer anything new for the user, then the user feels that the game is lacking in gameplay and replayability.

    100% this. I think spark'd just showed how they see it, they think players are either storytellers, builders, or stylists. I've seen a lot of people who love telling stories with the game and for these people its easy enough to make a big story around a small feature. Like they can create a massive story about being a master spellcaster who declares evil on the land, whilst for a regular player who doesn't come up with big stories the gameplay is not that in depth so it's hard to stay interested. You can make your own fun with the game and some imagination, but it's not already there if that makes sense.

    Like you can imagine a whole tier system for spellcasters and a good and evil side, but that isn't actually there in the game. There's no option to be a spellcaster of evil who's feared by all built into the game it's just someones own imagination. It's just working around what's there and making your own fun. People who play in that way can get so much out of even the shallowest of packs, whilst for regular players they don't get the same amount of enjoyment and replayability.

    Eventhough I personally am a Storyteller player I do completely agree with you because I like the game to play along with the story I created. Like with traits. I can just imagine a Sim is vegeterian but shouldn't the trait work and take the load of off me so I don't have to imagine it, but see it actually happen?
    Also I can try to imagine that two of my Sims are enemies and hate each other but it's so hard because even after I choose the argue interaction, if I don't look at them to make sure they are fighting, they end up talking about their days without me realizing.
    I can imagine my Sim lives in a hotel, but if it doesn't function like one, then how am I supposed to believe that?

    I think just using some imagination and then letting the game play your choices out for you just doesn't work anymore, you have to make such a big effort to believe all the things you are imagining and micro managing so much in order to get what you want out of the gameplay, that it for sure something the Sims 4 has to work on.
    This. In TS2 and TS3 things were happening. In TS4 you have to imagine that things are happening.
  • LeaselmaryLeaselmary Posts: 108 Member
    HayleeSims wrote: »
    Somebody sure doesn't like the Sims 3 lmao! It's fine but don't act like Sims 4 isn't also filled to the brim with rabbit holes and emotions are in dept when they are controlled by +1 moodlets. Not to mention you have to pay for 3 packs just to get what Late Night had. Never had problems with booting the sims 3 even on my grandmother's 10-year-old computer so you should speak for yourself.
    @HayleeSims don't start me on Late Night, it is the worst :D
    Yeah, I would rather have three packs and have in-depth vampires, proper celebrities, normal apartments with real neighbours and clubs that have more than two sims in them. If Late Night skipped the celebrities and vampires, but did better job on appartments and, well, routing, the pack would be so much better. And it would leave the chance for the good celebrity pack in Sims 3.

    I am not 100% happy with Sim 4 apartments, but in Sims 3 I never even wanted to use the apartments. If you can't leave next doorr to other playable character, what's the point. Late Night. Such a let down.

    I loved some things about Sims 3, but I never liked when it half ❤️❤️❤️❤️ important features to fit them all in one pack. If you don't have time and money to do something right, don't do it at all, leave it for another day. My favorite pack was Generations, and it was the modest one.

    And somehow I doubt you "never had problems" on mediocre PC if you have all the packs installed.

  • GreatestPlannerGreatestPlanner Posts: 73 Member
    But have you played The sims 2? :)
  • LeaselmaryLeaselmary Posts: 108 Member
    edited November 2020
    But have you played The sims 2? :)
    @GreatestPlanner I did. I still play it btw. Love both Sims 2&4, they are very different, but both are good games.

    I like Sims 3 too, it's just... I just wish Sims 3 did many things differently. I don't despise it. But I do like other sims games more.
  • SimTrippySimTrippy Posts: 7,209 Member
    edited November 2020
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Leaselmary wrote: »
    Inflation works exactly like that. Products become more expensive, money become cheaper, with video games prices go up even without the inflation. Maybe the price tag for IL + underwater lots + house boats would be like 60$. But I would rather pay 40$ for actually important part - swimming in ocean, boats, mermaids, fun on the beach, toddlers playing in the ocean aww. Odd jobs are cute too. Mermaids I think better. And there is whole traditions and culture thing that makes the pack more intresting. In Sims 3 everything is America even the tropical island.
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    2) I can play it. And while it could be better optimized it's not like TS4 is without it's extensive bugs and problems.
    As I've said it doesn't really matter if it can be played today. It had to be working in 2014. With all the EPs. For most players, not some of them. There is no excuse for what it did.

    But if you can play it and love it, good for you, play it. At least someone got their money worth from the game. I know I didn't. Couldn't play then because optimisation is not "minor thing that could be better", it's essential for the game to be optimised. And can't play it now, find TS3 kinda boring now and missing important aspects.

    Yeah I don't agree at all with any of your statements, but you do you I guess.

    It doesn't matter if you agree; facts are that's how inflation works.

    Inflation didn’t make Sims 4 a low budget game. If inflation was an issue then we would see this across all EA games, if not the entire video game industry. Plenty of $40 games are higher quality than Sims 4, and Sims 4 was $60 with $40 dlc’s.

    What EA has done with 4 is slash the budget while maintaining the same markup price that the dlc has historically had. This has nothing to do with inflation, and everything to do with EA milking Sims players for as much as they can get while putting in the bare minimum.

    To be fair, have you looked at the prices for PS5 games? They are more expensive for a reason. Without addressing the price per quality argument, you can't deny that video game development has become way more expensive and, by consequence, video games as well.
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