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Let's watch: The Sims 4 Eco Lifestyle Livestream (May 21st, 11AM PT)

Comments

  • SimTrippySimTrippy Posts: 7,138 Member
    alan650111 wrote: »
    jimbbq wrote: »
    Oh they didn't show pollution in other worlds?
    😔

    Seems so. Just smog. No trash. A bit disappointed. But the rest is awesome.

    There is a new lot trait you can add anywhere where trash accumulates and a garbage man picks it up once a week!

    Wait. We get garbage men? I missed that!! Omg😶

    So to come back to this, there are!! Not sure how detailed but here it is:

  • simrhinosimrhino Posts: 14 New Member
    The Food I Eat Isn’t Spoiled: A Freegan’s Thoughts on Misrepresentation, Greenwash, and Absurdity in The Sims 4 Eco Lifestyle

    I understand that this pack is not yet released. I am basing my impressions on official marketing however, the recent livestream in particular, so I can only assume the content presented there to be accurate:

    • Freegan sims are depicted as eating spoiled food, food that other sims, besides slob sims, would get ill from (nausea/vomiting.) I really hope that at least this is reconsidered and patched out as soon as possible, even before release, as it’s insulting and thoroughly inaccurate. Specifically in the footage we were shown, the food in question was crackers, crunchy, dry crackers emitting a green cloud.

    • I can see how the free love N.A.P. similarly ridicules sex-positive people by associating them with streaking, something more often driven by sophomoric impulses than strong convictions. Sex-positivity is not a priority for me, so I don’t feel as qualified to comment on this but I’d be interested in commentary from those who might feel misrepresented by this.

    • The host, SimGuruGeorge, and the gameplay shown suggested that increased energy production might justify environmental destruction. “There are positives to being this way (polluted.)” he said, suggesting there are other “positives” to the pack’s “industrial eco-footprint.” I was expecting promotion of “green” capitalist “solutions” (smog vacuum, anyone? wind? solar?) to environmental problems from a pack like this, but the team being so bold as to act as apologists for polluters comes as something of a surprise from a franchise that makes efforts to brand itself as woke. We got the gender update. We have Non-Simlish t-shirts scattered throughout CAS as the result of PR partnerships with various advocacy organizations. The insane trait became erratic, though it still retains a straitjacket icon, still a point of contention. “Pollution’s not all bad.” is not the message to be sending. In 2020, to suggest that business as usual is at all a viable approach to address climate change is not just an absurd but a damaging message. I could write much more on this but it would exceed the scope of these forums. That’s a topic for someone’s video essay.

    • Sims recover some very risky items including a mattress/bed, and likely other upholstered and/or wooden furniture that in reality could harbor pests like bedbugs, termites, or roaches and should only be considered salvageable by people with the means and the patience to treat such infestations before the items are reused. Mattresses in particular are in my opinion a lost cause. Whereas the treatment of food recovery in this pack is marked by stigma and ignorance, the way furniture is dealt with seems irresponsible in its omission of real risks, also presumably through the ignorance of devs who buy most everything they acquire. Items like those in the game’s collections would have made better options to bring home than furniture. Metal/plastic furniture like the chairs and table from the first game wouldn’t carry the same risks, and I’m happy to see them.

    • Lastly, maybe leastly, the word lifestyle in the title seems a poor choice, and not only because it is inconsistent with the City Living, Island Living, Tiny Living naming convention. In addition to having practiced freeganism for over a decade, I’m also queer, so I’ve had the word lifestyle weaponized against me in both contexts. As a result, the connotation isn’t too good. It’s got a history of being used in a dismissive and discrediting way, and while this is a subjective thing, I doubt I’m alone in my feelings towards it.

    Yes, this is a game with vampires, mermaids, aliens, ghosts and all other manner of fantasy elements and I happen to be one of the players who enjoys them. However, more realistic content and themes tend to read as accurate representations to audiences, especially when presenting real life concepts that might be unfamiliar to much of an audience. There is a responsibility to research people you want to represent in your games, when those people exist in the real world and you are not part of the group you are representing, as the perceptions of them you are helping to spread will impact their lives. I can’t believe that any freegans were consulted regarding the implementation of the new trait. We would have made corrections to the wrong assumptions/insensitive jokes on display. There are plenty of good resources online and upon request I’d be happy to provide some links to where the team might have gotten better information.

    The overall tone of the pack appears to trivialize the very serious issues around its theme. I hope moderators can appreciate that I am not introducing political discussion to this forum, the pack itself introduces the politics, and it insults and misrepresents how I live. I am not out of line in providing feedback that I am offended by how I’m being represented. The themes explored in this pack are inherently political, so it can’t be discussed in any meaningful way on your forums without some politics. The team chose to introduce the politics in making the pack. I’m sure they would have loved to have been able to make it completely neutral, whilst covering a theme the community has voted for in past surveys, but there was no way to do it with this subject matter. Trivializing a serious issue is itself a political stance.

    The bad messaging in this pack is a real shame because I’m actually looking forward to the pack otherwise. I like what I’ve seen of the art design, the CAS, the build items. It is very appealing to me to be able to have my sims live more like I do, but having to overlook or mod out jokes at my expense that are based on either a poor understanding or a deliberate intent to straw-man or discredit, well, that kind of ruins that aspect of it. I’m glad I’ll be able to turn off the eco-footprint functionality to avoid the pollution-apologist messaging incorporated into that mechanic and I can probably avoid most of the “green” capitalism propaganda if I steer clear of the civil designer career, but it looks as if every time I want my sims to live like me, I’ll have to confront the devs’ implication that I eat rotten food and have poor hygiene.
  • SilentKittySilentKitty Posts: 3,935 Member
    Just saw the stream, it was great!

    Really looking forward to this pack :) since I play with mods and CC it will be a while before I see it live but I am looking forward to let's plays and everything around it.

    So happy to have this to look forward too.
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,627 Member
    I. Just. Can't. I couldn't watch the stream. Too much needs fixing for me to ever play Sims 4 again. Personalities and individualism being the main things. I don't care about ladders, or window placement, or firemen, or repomen, or burglars, or anything they can add to the game until they work on the sims themselves.

    I don't care about farms, or casinos, or anything else they are thinking of adding. I can't/won't add anything to my game until they fix the sims themselves.
  • BabySquareBabySquare Posts: 7,833 Member
    I'm confused. They said we can turn the polution on and off, so if you get a neighbourhood nice and green then toggle pollution off, will it stay green? or suddenly go to neutral?
    Gallery ID: babysquare
  • Akl500PAkl500P Posts: 2,663 Member
    BabySquare wrote: »
    I'm confused. They said we can turn the polution on and off, so if you get a neighbourhood nice and green then toggle pollution off, will it stay green? or suddenly go to neutral?

    They said you pause the eco footprint which makes me think it will stay in whatever state it was in before you paused it.
  • BabySquareBabySquare Posts: 7,833 Member
    Akl500P wrote: »
    BabySquare wrote: »
    I'm confused. They said we can turn the polution on and off, so if you get a neighbourhood nice and green then toggle pollution off, will it stay green? or suddenly go to neutral?

    They said you pause the eco footprint which makes me think it will stay in whatever state it was in before you paused it.

    good point, thanks :smile:
    Gallery ID: babysquare
  • ParmaViolet87ParmaViolet87 Posts: 1,635 Member
    SimTrippy wrote: »
    alan650111 wrote: »
    jimbbq wrote: »
    Oh they didn't show pollution in other worlds?
    😔

    Seems so. Just smog. No trash. A bit disappointed. But the rest is awesome.

    There is a new lot trait you can add anywhere where trash accumulates and a garbage man picks it up once a week!

    Wait. We get garbage men? I missed that!! Omg😶

    So to come back to this, there are!! Not sure how detailed but here it is:


    I think I'm loving this more than I should :D
    giphy.gif
    AWWWW YIBS!
  • NetzspannungNetzspannung Posts: 1,934 Member
    SimTrippy wrote: »
    alan650111 wrote: »
    jimbbq wrote: »
    Oh they didn't show pollution in other worlds?
    😔

    Seems so. Just smog. No trash. A bit disappointed. But the rest is awesome.

    There is a new lot trait you can add anywhere where trash accumulates and a garbage man picks it up once a week!

    Wait. We get garbage men? I missed that!! Omg😶

    So to come back to this, there are!! Not sure how detailed but here it is:


    I think I'm loving this more than I should :D

    I think you are loving this just the right amount. While I enjoy TS4, I think it is safe to say that most of us feel starved for NPCs. I got excited over the return of the Repo Man of all NPCs! :)
    If I just posted an outfit you like, I have good news - there is more where that came from!
    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
    Twitter: NetzspannungTS

    we all try ...
  • ParmaViolet87ParmaViolet87 Posts: 1,635 Member
    SimTrippy wrote: »
    alan650111 wrote: »
    jimbbq wrote: »
    Oh they didn't show pollution in other worlds?
    😔

    Seems so. Just smog. No trash. A bit disappointed. But the rest is awesome.

    There is a new lot trait you can add anywhere where trash accumulates and a garbage man picks it up once a week!

    Wait. We get garbage men? I missed that!! Omg😶

    So to come back to this, there are!! Not sure how detailed but here it is:


    I think I'm loving this more than I should :D

    I think you are loving this just the right amount. While I enjoy TS4, I think it is safe to say that most of us feel starved for NPCs. I got excited over the return of the Repo Man of all NPCs! :)

    It just feels so weird as never before have I been excited about trash and garbagemen in a video game :D:D
    giphy.gif
    AWWWW YIBS!
  • AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,100 Member
    There’s no fire truck and probably no garbage truck so I’m standing by my theory that they’re waiting for cars to put them in the game (as a patch of course).
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

  • KhrisstyneKhrisstyne Posts: 266 Member
    I'm excited for the bills update. I can't wait to be broke :D (in the sims only though).

    But looking at some of the game changers and showing the bills & utilities it doesn't look like it makes much of a difference. I didn't see their bills go up. I saw some of them were being charged like 6 bucks. I'm scared.
    https://aviawinters.tumblr.com

    (not always sims related but I review and discuss television shows and movies. Foreign or not.)
  • kusurusukusurusu Posts: 734 Member
    Why is there a sun icon right next to the clock even though no seasons installed?
    My SuperSim Collection
    Rosetta Stone (TS3)
    Sona Ali (TS4)
  • AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,100 Member
    kusurusu wrote: »
    Why is there a sun icon right next to the clock even though no seasons installed?

    I think they added that when the pack came out. Even without seasons it’ll be sunny so that’s what it shows I think, but I could be wrong.
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

  • kusurusukusurusu Posts: 734 Member
    In Seasons icon on the left shows current season (sun=summer) not weather (or temperature)
    My SuperSim Collection
    Rosetta Stone (TS3)
    Sona Ali (TS4)
  • AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,100 Member
    kusurusu wrote: »
    In Seasons icon on the left shows current season (sun=summer) not weather (or temperature)

    Oh...🤔🤔
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

  • SimpatsyannSimpatsyann Posts: 1,131 Member
    If Seasons isn't installed, it's summer, just without the temperature effects. They probably left the icon in as a placeholder to minimize UI changes.
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 1,923 Member
    There’s no fire truck and probably no garbage truck so I’m standing by my theory that they’re waiting for cars to put them in the game (as a patch of course).

    This is something I'm actually excited about. The arrival of npc vehicles! I would love to see trash being thrown in the garbage truck!
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,100 Member
    There’s no fire truck and probably no garbage truck so I’m standing by my theory that they’re waiting for cars to put them in the game (as a patch of course).

    This is something I'm actually excited about. The arrival of npc vehicles! I would love to see trash being thrown in the garbage truck!

    I hope they add them because I’d love to see the fire people hop off the truck to put out your house haha
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

  • MikkiMikkiMikkiMMikkiMikkiMikkiM Posts: 187 Member
    simrhino wrote: »

    • The host, SimGuruGeorge, and the gameplay shown suggested that increased energy production might justify environmental destruction. “There are positives to being this way (polluted.)” he said, suggesting there are other “positives” to the pack’s “industrial eco-footprint.” I was expecting promotion of “green” capitalist “solutions” (smog vacuum, anyone? wind? solar?) to environmental problems from a pack like this, but the team being so bold as to act as apologists for polluters comes as something of a surprise from a franchise that makes efforts to brand itself as woke. We got the gender update. We have Non-Simlish t-shirts scattered throughout CAS as the result of PR partnerships with various advocacy organizations. The insane trait became erratic, though it still retains a straitjacket icon, still a point of contention. “Pollution’s not all bad.” is not the message to be sending. In 2020, to suggest that business as usual is at all a viable approach to address climate change is not just an absurd but a damaging message. I could write much more on this but it would exceed the scope of these forums. That’s a topic for someone’s video essay.

    I think the first point you made, and the one you ended with, is very valid. This one, however, seems a bit of a reach. There are positives to the pollution in the game. When they are talking during a livestream, they are talking about the game, not reality. And in reality, there are 'positives' to pollution too, if you are a capitalist. No one is promoting pollution irl, they are just discussing gameplay. Just like if you have the 'evil' trait, being an ❤️❤️❤️❤️ has positives too, yet no one is pretending that is how you should be behaving irl.
  • ParmaViolet87ParmaViolet87 Posts: 1,635 Member
    edited May 27
    simrhino wrote: »

    • The host, SimGuruGeorge, and the gameplay shown suggested that increased energy production might justify environmental destruction. “There are positives to being this way (polluted.)” he said, suggesting there are other “positives” to the pack’s “industrial eco-footprint.” I was expecting promotion of “green” capitalist “solutions” (smog vacuum, anyone? wind? solar?) to environmental problems from a pack like this, but the team being so bold as to act as apologists for polluters comes as something of a surprise from a franchise that makes efforts to brand itself as woke. We got the gender update. We have Non-Simlish t-shirts scattered throughout CAS as the result of PR partnerships with various advocacy organizations. The insane trait became erratic, though it still retains a straitjacket icon, still a point of contention. “Pollution’s not all bad.” is not the message to be sending. In 2020, to suggest that business as usual is at all a viable approach to address climate change is not just an absurd but a damaging message. I could write much more on this but it would exceed the scope of these forums. That’s a topic for someone’s video essay.

    I think the first point you made, and the one you ended with, is very valid. This one, however, seems a bit of a reach. There are positives to the pollution in the game. When they are talking during a livestream, they are talking about the game, not reality. And in reality, there are 'positives' to pollution too, if you are a capitalist. No one is promoting pollution irl, they are just discussing gameplay. Just like if you have the 'evil' trait, being an 🌺🌺🌺🌺 has positives too, yet no one is pretending that is how you should be behaving irl.

    'Apologists for polluters'? What? Okay this is new. :lol:

    Are people forgetting that this is the Sims, a sandbox game, and having the option to choose between industrial or green is the beauty of it? Giving simmers the option to have an industrial world is an excellent feature, and it was what simmers want. They want options and freedom to create environments for their stories. I have seen lots of simmers on here excited about pollution, but that doesn't mean they will go out and dump trash in rivers.

    Having a green world won't be appreciated if you didn't have an industrial or polluted world.

    The devs are not giving out bad messages nor do they have a hidden agenda - they are just adding more options and gameplay to what is a sandbox game.

    I agree with you Mikki. And I apologise simrhino if I have missed your point, but if I haven't, you are looking way too far into this.
    giphy.gif
    AWWWW YIBS!
  • NoirStasisNoirStasis Posts: 243 Member
    edited May 27
    simrhino wrote: »

    • The host, SimGuruGeorge, and the gameplay shown suggested that increased energy production might justify environmental destruction. “There are positives to being this way (polluted.)” he said, suggesting there are other “positives” to the pack’s “industrial eco-footprint.” I was expecting promotion of “green” capitalist “solutions” (smog vacuum, anyone? wind? solar?) to environmental problems from a pack like this, but the team being so bold as to act as apologists for polluters comes as something of a surprise from a franchise that makes efforts to brand itself as woke. We got the gender update. We have Non-Simlish t-shirts scattered throughout CAS as the result of PR partnerships with various advocacy organizations. The insane trait became erratic, though it still retains a straitjacket icon, still a point of contention. “Pollution’s not all bad.” is not the message to be sending. In 2020, to suggest that business as usual is at all a viable approach to address climate change is not just an absurd but a damaging message. I could write much more on this but it would exceed the scope of these forums. That’s a topic for someone’s video essay.

    I think the first point you made, and the one you ended with, is very valid. This one, however, seems a bit of a reach. There are positives to the pollution in the game. When they are talking during a livestream, they are talking about the game, not reality. And in reality, there are 'positives' to pollution too, if you are a capitalist. No one is promoting pollution irl, they are just discussing gameplay. Just like if you have the 'evil' trait, being an 🌺🌺🌺🌺 has positives too, yet no one is pretending that is how you should be behaving irl.

    'Apologists for polluters'? What? Okay this is new. :lol:

    Are people forgetting that this is the Sims, a sandbox game, and having the option to choose between industrial or green is the beauty of it? Giving simmers the option to have an industrial world is an excellent feature, and it was what simmers want. They want options and freedom to create environments for their stories. I have seen lots of simmers on here excited about pollution, but that doesn't mean they will go out and dump trash in rivers.

    Having a green world won't be appreciated if you didn't have an industrial or polluted world.

    The devs are not giving out bad messages nor do they have a hidden agenda - they are just adding more options and gameplay to what is a sandbox game.

    I agree with you Mikki. And I apologise simrhino if I have missed your point, but if I haven't, you are looking way too far into this.

    I read everyone's comments and I feel that I get both sides. "Positive effects" may of not been the right words to use, maybe just sticking with "consequences" good and bad would of been better?

    On the other hand they are talking and focusing on the game, so they do not in any way shape or form promote dirty industrial worlds in real life. Things in the Sims should be taken with a grain of salt, and even though it's a life simulator it's more of an escape from "real life simulator". They will take things in real life and form it into their own interpretation or ideal to fit into the Sims as well as other things such as the occults, magical garden gnomes, the grim reaper, freezer bunny, etc.

    I can understand if you feel that freegans were misconstrued in the Sims; they were exaggerated for gameplay purposes just as other things such as the free love n.a.p. was as well. People who practice and believe in that in real life don't walk around and visit their neighbors in the buff. I doubt that they will patch out and get rid of them eating spoiled food. It would of been better if when they found food in the dumpster it would be in a box ( like the ones that are decor in the Get to Work retail fridge that you can sell cakes and cooked food on display)or a lunch bag if its a small portion and the food was not spoiled. But we must remember that even when Sims cook/bake food whether left on the counter or in the fridge and it spoils, with free will on they tend to try to eat spoiled food regardless of the consequences afterwards.

    * Edit: there is also the possibility of Sims finding perfectly good quality food in the dumpster, it just happened to be spoiled in the livestream, doesn't mean that all food they find will be spoiled.

  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,759 Member
    About the conversation above regarding positiveness of pollution: the way I understood it, the "positive effects" were in regards to using the items which have an industrial footprint (and thus negatively affect pollution) instead of those with a green footprint.
    So it's not "pollution is good" but "technology isn't all bad".

    In my opinion, calling the team "pollution apologists" is way too big a leap from game mechanics to the real world.
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 3,037 Member
    The devs gave us what i think simmers want: different angles to build our own stories. If they did the pack with only the 'save the planet' point of view people would be upset because we wouldn't have options...
  • elanorbretonelanorbreton Posts: 12,261 Member
    telmarina wrote: »
    The devs gave us what i think simmers want: different angles to build our own stories. If they did the pack with only the 'save the planet' point of view people would be upset because we wouldn't have options...
    Always better to have options!

    I love the idea of piling up the trash and having a rubbish filled world. But never irl. I am a very outdoorsy person and love nature, hiking, canoeing and am always dismayed when I see any rubbish left behind by unthinking people. But the game is just a game, we can do all sorts of things in the Sims 4 I would never dream of doing irl.
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