I'm not adverse to the idea being a toggleable option.
The default setting should be more like: no one gets pregnant. All babies are adopted.
And then toggles to alter the pregnancy specifics to suit your game.
I think some of ya'll are VERY confused about in vitro (it isn't genetically engineered babies. That's not a thing that even rich people do) and what it means to be trans or intersex or otherwise non-cis. Please, if you aren't knowedgable on the subjects or are against non-hetero lives, PLEASE do not spread misinformation. That is INCREDIBLY dangerous and gets people killed. People are actually, physically murdered because of people who do not understand non-cis/hetero lives. So please be courteous that your opinion doesn't trump lives.
That being said, what OP is looking for is basically already in the game now.
Please, don't erase the male and female in The Sims. If everyone wants to be inclusive and tolerant, and get along, then please don't erase a representation of me, or my family, or those I know. Male and female. It's no less important than transgender or no gender. We still exist. This is what is said to me by some I know, and I agree. Male and female are a fact of life, and we want to be represented, too. Why would my male or female need to have that choice. If you put choice on every Sim then you have just wiped out males and females that represent most humans in this world.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Deciding a sim's gender identity is better off in the hands of the player lest the developers be accused of "forcing an agenda". And while there are plenty of players that create sims that cross gender lines, there are also just as many players that just create cis-male and cis-female sims. If such a thing was implemented, I probably wouldnt mind it so much, but I'd just make sure that in hetero households (at my discretion) its the female sim who gets pregnant by her male partner. Honestly this is better off as our choice in CAS. I can already see the poopstorm that would arise if it wasnt left solely to the player's discretion.
In real life there are gender/sex defaults. Those cannot be erased with personal perception of identity. Personal identity is not something for the public, it is for the self. This is why there is so much push and pull on the topic because perception is different for every individual. For example, one person's perception of masculinity and what it means to have "male" traits can be very different from another person's. Is one of them wrong? Does a cis male know more about recognizing masculinity than a trans male? What exactly is masculinity? How is it defined?
See, the problem with not using the "defaults" of biological nature and a long history of standard behaviors in favor of current trends of social politics means getting into a sticky area and risking being more offensive to a larger number of people. Everyone understands cis gender, even if they don't call it that. Not everyone understands gender identity. There are many countries where transgender is not a thing and would be offensive. The Sims has an international player base now, and for all of the claims of inclusion, development does tend to continue to pander to North American socio ideals and trends.
My point is, you can't escape truth and the Truth is, most people are born male or female with the eventual potential to impregnate or be impregnated. Even with intersexed individuals there is usually only one or the other that prevails or in some cases, sterility. Now, if EA wanted to add intersexed individuals to CAS by offering new options, I can support that. (Honestly satisfied with the way things are now.) But even in game terms, to have Sims who, by default, can do both, might make gameplay a little chaotic and I have no doubts that we'd see a very fast increase in player outrage, especially if townies were also susceptible.
It's very important to keep these issues under control and optional for the player to decide what they want their game to be. Some people may think that those who want a "traditional" cis, straight relationship-filled game are being discriminatory but you know what? They are paying for it too, and their money isn't worth any less. If it's how they want to play their game and it doesn't effect someone else, why shouldn't they have their options too?
Inclusivity means just that: being inclusive. And that entails being inclusive to all players. This is why I see nothing wrong with sticking to the defaults of the majority of human biology and standard perception of "gender norms" while offering alternative options. Like someone else pointed out, our Sims don't really act or react any differently by sex/gender, it was never a thing in the program across the series so those walls, as far as behavior is concerned, have already been taken down, allowing the player to guide the rest. And I say well done for that.
I like people going to lenghty sciencey explanations of why they don't want it, as if this inane idea was somehow too progressive for them, when it's actually the opposite.
I don't want it for one reason, removing any and all representation is not and has never been inclusive / diverse.
Senior Pollination Technician #3 (female alien) can impregnate Male sims and at the same time the Male sims impregnate Female sims.
It would be a way to formalize a feature which is already available in the game since The Sims 2 (2004).
The Sims 5 could have no gender, these Gender options would be available :
Body : Female/Male/Androgynous
Behavior : Feminine/Masculine
Clothing preferences : Feminine/Masculine/Both
Pregnancy : Impregnate/Be impregnated/Both
Keep in mind the game will keep on working the same way, just it adds more options for the players who care about them.
That's more or less how I'd like to see it, with a few other options:
Pronouns: He/him, she/her, they/them (using checkboxes, game randomises which one is used in a given situation if multiples chosen - an option for custom pronouns would be great too. For those who claim this'd be too complicated due to changed sentence structure, I'll direct you to this completely fanmade mod, which has already done all the work. It could admittedly be trickier in non-English languages, yes, although a lot are working on neutral pronouns)
Build: Feminine, masculine, androgynous (radio buttons, with the three basically just offering different kinds of presets that can all be changed anyway. Breasts, body hair, and facial hair available for all body types)
Clothing Preferences: Feminine, masculine, unisex (checkboxes; selecting both 'feminine' and 'masculine' shows every item tagged as unisex too, and the unisex tag is available for clothes that wouldn't traditionally fall one way or another)
Pregnancy: Can impregnate, can be impregnated, neither, both (radio buttons)
Bathroom: Stands to pee, sits down to pee, both (radio buttons)
For behaviour, I'd like to see a range of non-gendered ones, basically like how walk styles are done (aside from renaming the 'feminine' walk style). Snooty-behaviour Sims are very fussy and high-maintenance, tough-behaviour Sims are kind of aggressive, stuff like that. They don't need to be gendered.
@leo3487 , I do see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure it should be by default. I'd like to see something in Options to allow townies with custom genders to be created, but setting it by default would... well, you see how fussy the commentors above are getting at the prospect of anything outside a strict binary! Wouldn't want EA to lose money, now XD;;
In real life there are gender/sex defaults. Those cannot be erased with personal perception of identity. Personal identity is not something for the public, it is for the self. This is why there is so much push and pull on the topic because perception is different for every individual. For example, one person's perception of masculinity and what it means to have "male" traits can be very different from another person's. Is one of them wrong? Does a cis male know more about recognizing masculinity than a trans male? What exactly is masculinity? How is it defined?
See, the problem with not using the "defaults" of biological nature and a long history of standard behaviors in favor of current trends of social politics means getting into a sticky area and risking being more offensive to a larger number of people. Everyone understands cis gender, even if they don't call it that. Not everyone understands gender identity. There are many countries where transgender is not a thing and would be offensive. The Sims has an international player base now, and for all of the claims of inclusion, development does tend to continue to pander to North American socio ideals and trends.
My point is, you can't escape truth and the Truth is, most people are born male or female with the eventual potential to impregnate or be impregnated. Even with intersexed individuals there is usually only one or the other that prevails or in some cases, sterility. Now, if EA wanted to add intersexed individuals to CAS by offering new options, I can support that. (Honestly satisfied with the way things are now.) But even in game terms, to have Sims who, by default, can do both, might make gameplay a little chaotic and I have no doubts that we'd see a very fast increase in player outrage, especially if townies were also susceptible.
It's very important to keep these issues under control and optional for the player to decide what they want their game to be. Some people may think that those who want a "traditional" cis, straight relationship-filled game are being discriminatory but you know what? They are paying for it too, and their money isn't worth any less. If it's how they want to play their game and it doesn't effect someone else, why shouldn't they have their options too?
Inclusivity means just that: being inclusive. And that entails being inclusive to all players. This is why I see nothing wrong with sticking to the defaults of the majority of human biology and standard perception of "gender norms" while offering alternative options. Like someone else pointed out, our Sims don't really act or react any differently by sex/gender, it was never a thing in the program across the series so those walls, as far as behavior is concerned, have already been taken down, allowing the player to guide the rest. And I say well done for that.
It is interesting reading people's replies about this when it's apparently perfectly okay for aliens, vampires and plant sims to reproduce with "human Sims". 🤣 🤷♂️
My initial thoughts are no. I think any kind of pregnancy should have a biological basis. If perhaps a Sim had transitioned by some means, through the game, perhaps I could see it working?
Has anyone tried to change a pregnant Sims sex using CAS edit in cas.fulleditmode?
I see some couldn't resist throwing shade in this thread at those who are not up for this idea by the OP. Why throw shade? Isn't my or someone else's opinion about this just as important as the ones throwing shade? I didn't throw shade, but I can see how inclusive you are by your throwing shade at my opinion of why this isn't a great idea. I guess inclusivness is only for those who agree.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Am I the only one who is now confused by this thread? I said no to all sims being forced to be asexual (in a nutshell, that's what was being suggested). Now they're talking about them not being forced, but as options. So... as in the options we already have in the game? As if we don't already have those options? I use those... I'm fine with options, but as we have them now then the point of this all is?
The way it is now seems pretty much perfect, in CAS we have complete control in making sims if varied sexualities, and body types. It allows player who aren’t comfortable with LGBTQ sims to not have that forced upon them & those of us who are fine with it can incorporate them in our games in a multitude of forms. This furthered by the fact that you can seemingly develop your sims relationship preferences by who you have them repeatedly flirt with. So I you have your sim repeatedly flirt with same sex sims event it seems they almost always will autonomously and vice versa with opposite sex sims. To force any of this on a player by making it a default seems antithetical to the whole point of the game.
Am I the only one who is now confused by this thread? I said no to all sims being forced to be asexual (in a nutshell, that's what was being suggested). Now they're talking about them not being forced, but as options. So... as in the options we already have in the game? As if we don't already have those options? I use those... I'm fine with options, but as we have them now then the point of this all is?
Yes, the suggestion is that no Sims in the game be biologically male or female anymore. I'm not clear on what term is correct. But that's like saying hey, there shouldn't be any biological males and or females in game anymore because we want all Sims to be..insert term. Well to me that wipes out biological mother and father male and females and doesn't reflect a life simulator at all. That reflects a special class of people and not all people. Gender patch does all they are asking but the quote from the OP is to take it one step further....and to me that says no more biological males and or females in game. That's a leap too far in my opinion as it doesn't reflect real life. Males who can get pregnant (biologically male) in the game is funny because it's not biologically possible. We can call any Sim male or female however I think biology should remain in TS4 and TS5 as the status quo, because it's still how the human race continues.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Yo, I don't give a hot plum about biology or realism in my games and see no problem with them trying to be "politically correct" as I want all people to be able to enjoy things... And even I think this is a bad idea (as a default at least). Now, giving us the option to have any sim both be able to impregnate and get pregnant, I like that, I'm all for that. In fact, I've already cheated to make that a reality for some of my own sims and would LOVE to see it become an actual option in game without cheats. But as far as all sims being the same gender-wise (in as much as none of them have a gender)... nahhh
I disagree with this. I believe the game is already very accommodating to those who disagree with gender conventions. I believe the things you are proposing can already be done with CAS. I personally am more traditional and prefer it that way.
Wouldn't all the Sims be intersex then? Because you need a uterus to get pregnant. Now test tube babies are another thing. Real life science has already made it possible for same-sex couples to have their own genetic babies via stem cells. Science is working on womb pods, where you can have an artificial womb set up in your house (not sure it mobile or not) and even watch the baby develop. No need for a surrogate.
I think that there should be male, female, and non-binary labels for the Sims. Medically some people are born with multiple gender parts, so for the Sims to be realistic all three labels have to be represented. This was discussed by SimGuruLyndsay in a recent interview about how to put it in the Sims 4.
Now as far as being a sci-fi fan and watching Star Trek for years, it should be possible for aliens to be asexual and be able to get pregnant and impregnant others.
Anyways I think players should have the choice to tell the story how they want it whether they want their Sims to have a gender or not or having both Sims be pregnant at the same time or not. Basically we are all gods in our own Sims games and I hope with the Sims 5 story progression goes away. But then again with the Sims 5 going the online route according to the CEO, I don't think Sims will get pregnant or age anyway because in the Sims Social they didn't and goodbye to all our modding community options too.
I do play straight couples. One of my closest Twitch friends is LGBTQIA+ friendly and doing a 100 baby challenge with their self-Sim. I do like the idea of having the husband suffer along with the wife with pregnancy and have done it in the past in the Sims 2. Major reason why I got the Sims 2 was watching guys get tortured with pregnancy is just amusing to me with the aliens. So I think when it comes to this thread, having options open for everyone would be the best compromise route to go.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
II don't like that. I think that reproduction should stay the biological way. While I am not a homophobe (how could I be? I'm a lesbian!) I don't want two same sex people to be able to reproduce in ts5, unless one in a lesbian marriage is given ivf, which I hope is in ts5.
Comments
The default setting should be more like: no one gets pregnant. All babies are adopted.
And then toggles to alter the pregnancy specifics to suit your game.
Please, don't erase the male and female in The Sims. If everyone wants to be inclusive and tolerant, and get along, then please don't erase a representation of me, or my family, or those I know. Male and female. It's no less important than transgender or no gender. We still exist. This is what is said to me by some I know, and I agree. Male and female are a fact of life, and we want to be represented, too. Why would my male or female need to have that choice. If you put choice on every Sim then you have just wiped out males and females that represent most humans in this world.
See, the problem with not using the "defaults" of biological nature and a long history of standard behaviors in favor of current trends of social politics means getting into a sticky area and risking being more offensive to a larger number of people. Everyone understands cis gender, even if they don't call it that. Not everyone understands gender identity. There are many countries where transgender is not a thing and would be offensive. The Sims has an international player base now, and for all of the claims of inclusion, development does tend to continue to pander to North American socio ideals and trends.
My point is, you can't escape truth and the Truth is, most people are born male or female with the eventual potential to impregnate or be impregnated. Even with intersexed individuals there is usually only one or the other that prevails or in some cases, sterility. Now, if EA wanted to add intersexed individuals to CAS by offering new options, I can support that. (Honestly satisfied with the way things are now.) But even in game terms, to have Sims who, by default, can do both, might make gameplay a little chaotic and I have no doubts that we'd see a very fast increase in player outrage, especially if townies were also susceptible.
It's very important to keep these issues under control and optional for the player to decide what they want their game to be. Some people may think that those who want a "traditional" cis, straight relationship-filled game are being discriminatory but you know what? They are paying for it too, and their money isn't worth any less. If it's how they want to play their game and it doesn't effect someone else, why shouldn't they have their options too?
Inclusivity means just that: being inclusive. And that entails being inclusive to all players. This is why I see nothing wrong with sticking to the defaults of the majority of human biology and standard perception of "gender norms" while offering alternative options. Like someone else pointed out, our Sims don't really act or react any differently by sex/gender, it was never a thing in the program across the series so those walls, as far as behavior is concerned, have already been taken down, allowing the player to guide the rest. And I say well done for that.
I don't want it for one reason, removing any and all representation is not and has never been inclusive / diverse.
That's more or less how I'd like to see it, with a few other options:
For behaviour, I'd like to see a range of non-gendered ones, basically like how walk styles are done (aside from renaming the 'feminine' walk style). Snooty-behaviour Sims are very fussy and high-maintenance, tough-behaviour Sims are kind of aggressive, stuff like that. They don't need to be gendered.
@leo3487 , I do see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure it should be by default. I'd like to see something in Options to allow townies with custom genders to be created, but setting it by default would... well, you see how fussy the commentors above are getting at the prospect of anything outside a strict binary! Wouldn't want EA to lose money, now XD;;
Preach!!
My initial thoughts are no. I think any kind of pregnancy should have a biological basis. If perhaps a Sim had transitioned by some means, through the game, perhaps I could see it working?
Has anyone tried to change a pregnant Sims sex using CAS edit in cas.fulleditmode?
My Gallery 🏠 | Gamer 🎮 | Husband 👬
It's not possible.
Yes, the suggestion is that no Sims in the game be biologically male or female anymore. I'm not clear on what term is correct. But that's like saying hey, there shouldn't be any biological males and or females in game anymore because we want all Sims to be..insert term. Well to me that wipes out biological mother and father male and females and doesn't reflect a life simulator at all. That reflects a special class of people and not all people. Gender patch does all they are asking but the quote from the OP is to take it one step further....and to me that says no more biological males and or females in game. That's a leap too far in my opinion as it doesn't reflect real life. Males who can get pregnant (biologically male) in the game is funny because it's not biologically possible. We can call any Sim male or female however I think biology should remain in TS4 and TS5 as the status quo, because it's still how the human race continues.
Now as far as being a sci-fi fan and watching Star Trek for years, it should be possible for aliens to be asexual and be able to get pregnant and impregnant others.
Anyways I think players should have the choice to tell the story how they want it whether they want their Sims to have a gender or not or having both Sims be pregnant at the same time or not. Basically we are all gods in our own Sims games and I hope with the Sims 5 story progression goes away. But then again with the Sims 5 going the online route according to the CEO, I don't think Sims will get pregnant or age anyway because in the Sims Social they didn't and goodbye to all our modding community options too.
I do play straight couples. One of my closest Twitch friends is LGBTQIA+ friendly and doing a 100 baby challenge with their self-Sim. I do like the idea of having the husband suffer along with the wife with pregnancy and have done it in the past in the Sims 2. Major reason why I got the Sims 2 was watching guys get tortured with pregnancy is just amusing to me with the aliens. So I think when it comes to this thread, having options open for everyone would be the best compromise route to go.