You know what? I refuse to let the poor behaviour of the gurus and of the forum posters, as well as the (my opinion) rubbish TS4 force me away from an awesome community. I'll be around occasionally.
Hugs to all.
*hands out bonbons*
I agree think I'm going to step back in too. At least here. I love the pictures everyone posts takes me to my happy place!
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
I've popped back to say thank you to all of you who have sent me supportive pm's, who have been surprised at the response to my posts and who have tried to point out I've never been a 'negative' influencer here or anywhere else. It truly means a lot.
I am very upset by what has happened. I have spent substantial amounts of my personal time running this thread to be inclusive as possible. I have tried to mediate between players of different versions and different opinions to avoid the upsets that were unnecessary and I was pleased to do so because I care for all of you here.
I also helped people who were new with no mention of my experience because I had no desire to 'ruin' anyone else's potential experiences. I spent ages trying to assist those locked out of 'game time' to help EA access as many potential customers as possible-again without mentioning my own experience.
So now I see this 'negative agenda' and that some of us will never get it or we want to be unhappy and it quite honestly broke my heart. If my trust has diminished in Maxis it is not through lack of trying at my, or any other customers, end.
I want to apologise if I advocated patience for no end and encouraged good, detailed feedback no matter your opinion. I had no idea that it wasn't welcome or would be used to sort into a 'negative' agenda pile.
I honestly do not believe any of the family players have 'negative agendas' and I'm sorry if you were upset too. You have shown grace, love in face of hatred and compassion towards each other no matter what opinion people had. Yes this thread had its 'moments', generally to do with people who wished to 'prove' that the sides thing was true or trolls wishing to upset people. But with each experience you rose above it and kept the thread running well and were rather civil in response to truly nasty comments.
I want to thank each and every one of you for your passion, love and friendship shown to each other. Your love of this game shines through to me and I'm very sorry if that's not recognised at the end of the day. I've done my best and I really would do anything for you all-you are amongst the most wonderful people I've met on the internet and it's been a pleasure to be your OP.
I left for a few days to see if the situation would be clarified and cleared up before I said anything. But a private message to Drake was not replied to and no clarifications were sought so I thought I should try to clarify my position. I'm around but I don't know how I feel about any of this and am still processing the situation. If you need me I'm available via pm and if the situation changes I will revisit my post to say so.
@sparkfairy1 I know how hurtful this all is; nothing is your fault and you've always done your best to get other Simmers voices heard. We appreciate your efforts, never forget that! If that's all being construed as a 'negative agenda', then that's on them and not on you.
The vision for The Sims 4 is a new experience that brings your Sims to life in deeper and uniquely personal ways – through emotions, personality traits, behaviors and interactions.
Only problem with that is: there's less depth & overall fewer traits and interactions.
So that leaves us with ... emotions & behaviors.
I'm wowed #jk
Speaking of which, I tend to be a big picture thinker so I like to have an understanding about things like visions too.
"...The Sims 4 was originally a different title, with a Story Mode, Online Mode, and Freeplay Mode. The Story Mode was similar to that of earlier Sims console games...Online Mode was more of a virtual chat room, and you compete with friends in certain activities, such as racing to reach a certain milestone in game, or completing goals the quickest...The final mode, Freeplay Mode, was a more traditional experience, but it was more streamlined than previous titles, as it was more of an extra gameplay mode built from Story and Online Mode, rather than a gameplay mode built from scratch...."
If repeating what I believe to be the truth about the game is considered a "negative agenda", then so be it. It was EAs choice to make this game the way it is, and if they'd never decided to call it TS4 in the first place then maybe people wouldn't be asking for the things they loved that were in past games, things that they apparently can't or don't want to add. Maybe in the beginning they thought they could do it, I don't know. But ever since the executive decision to attempt to make a more traditional experience out of their 'Freeplay Mode', I think they've been struggling to find a vision. JMO
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I thought I'd cross post my response here to show you all I've offered my help once again despite what has happened and I'll let you know if it goes anywhere and if there is movement on accepting feedback. I think you'll appreciate that I really do value you all here and believe you should get far more credit for the way you keep this thread running well.
Well I'm glad you've learnt that some things aren't working and are trying something new. That's all I've ever advocated for-some things just aren't getting your message across so instead of the reiteration maybe we need to find a way to address it in a slightly different fashion. Not everything works well in practice as it sounds in meetings. I'm here-I see the issues and I take a deal of care to try to understand all sides of it and I have my own ideas which have worked in helping the family players thread stay mostly moderation free for a while. Please use those lessons I learnt the hard way!
I'm not unreasonable-I will always be available for you to discuss issues with and to come to some compromises on and I think a lot of family players will tell you that when they have issues and come to me I work very hard to strip the emotion away from the conversation to get to the real issues below those feelings so I can understand and see if I can work around them or help them understand.
As I said to you in my pm. I didn't intend to be a 'voice' for anyone. I honestly believed the trolls telling family players there was no such thing so we weren't worth a look in from the studio. That thread was my last ditch effort to see if I really was such an odd player. Turns out no, I'm not. The people who post regularly there deserve credit for how they've handled trolls and people deliberately looking for trouble. They act with dignity and prove that this 'sides' stuff is only as powerful as the power a user gives it. There's a reason I reject it. I have too much experience with those of all opinions to give it any legitimacy-it was started by trolls and sadly took a life of its own fuelled by the lack of information, discontent and what have you.
The door is open. If you want to work together to make things better and to clear up miscommunication I'm here to assist. You just need to come to me and I'll help. I'll even edit my last post. Can't say fairer than that. I know you have bad days-I've said that I don't envy you many, many times in dealing with certain plum. It is plum and ive dealt with enough of it to understand how easily things are misunderstood and that's why I waited to say something. I didn't want to react then see a clarification to address my concerns and have made it worse.
In regards to the twitch broadcasts. I have some ideas for you. I agree it's plum. It's not helpful when it's addressing something else and it gets in the way. I'm 100% behind standing with you and saying there is a time and a place. Really i think it stems from people believing they have no voice. If they felt they had more investment in having a say it would die down, I honestly believe that. Apart from the plum trolls who would do it if you gave them the moon and back. They can't be helped and have to be dealt with sadly
So many interesting viewpoints and thoughts here. Thank you all. I agree with @HappySimmer3 that perhaps the game should not have been called The Sims 4. Naively, I thought that meant they would take the best parts of both TS2 and TS3, fix what was wrong, leave out the things that didn't work or didn't add gameplay value, and use attractive 2014 graphics. Boy, was I wrong.
If they had called it The Sims: Young Adult Life or something like that, I think that perhaps there would have been more unhappy gamers at first but that there would have been far different expectations and fewer ensuing disappointments.
TS4 has been out for basically two years now, so there have been about three years (including prerelease press and hype) to comment on the game. My feeling is that what we see is all it can be. They no longer want to hear suggestions of how to fix it, because it's unfixable. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm on some secret blacklist of "Simmers I Ignore," which is sad but something I'm OK with now.
I would argue that their Freeplay Mode is still pretty stripped down compared to past games, but I hear you. I would have still been upset to be excluded from the new game, but at least it would have felt more honest than what they ended up doing.
Oh, and I loved your lemons/plums/prunes comment.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
So many interesting viewpoints and thoughts here. Thank you all. I agree with @HappySimmer3 that perhaps the game should not have been called The Sims 4. Naively, I thought that meant they would take the best parts of both TS2 and TS3, fix what was wrong, leave out the things that didn't work or didn't add gameplay value, and use attractive 2014 graphics. Boy, was I wrong.
If they had called it The Sims: Young Adult Life or something like that, I think that perhaps there would have been more unhappy gamers at first but that there would have been far different expectations and fewer ensuing disappointments.
TS4 has been out for basically two years now, so there have been about three years (including prerelease press and hype) to comment on the game. My feeling is that what we see is all it can be. They no longer want to hear suggestions of how to fix it, because it's unfixable. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm on some secret blacklist of "Simmers I Ignore," which is sad but something I'm OK with now.
I feel the same way. I also expected what you did for 4. Agree also had they named it something other than TS4 I would have realized this was a different game like TS2 Castaway or TSM. I can't see at all where this game deserves a numerical spot in the franchise.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
@HappySimmer3 indeed! That's what I always think as well: if they simply hadn't called it "The Sims 4" but "Sims Stories" or "Crazy Carefree YA Sims", they would be getting far less backlash for what they've done to the series, because people wouldn't have considered it a sequel in the first place. And they would've never expected it to adhere to the same standards as all previous games. Like our good old Wright said, the Sims is supposed to "enable stories", not tell us what to do. That's the opposite of what they've done now, and there's really not that much "free play" left to speak of. There's honestly no depth to a date where you have to speak x times about the food or make x amount of flirt attempts, and it's hard for me to ignore those goals, especially after that giant pop-up tells me that my mediocre date hasn't won me any medals. That isn't to say some people may not prefer this game play to sandbox, but yeah, sandbox should still be entirely available. But I guess the statistics are telling them our play styles are outdated? lol
Oh well, smh. At least I just had very good spareribs
LOL! @SimTrippy I'm looking forward to some cocktail shrimp for dinner. Kind of an odd choice, but I'm out of town attempting to get a house ready to put on the market so I decided to treat myself.
Yes, apparently all their data told them that a traditional sims game would no longer be profitable. But then I think of how they tried to present this game as a traditional sims experience before release and never once hinted at all the changes they made to it, to the point of not even letting any gaming sites review it before launch. That makes me wonder how reliable their data actually is, since someone in management decided that they needed us more 'traditional' simmers to purchase the game after all. It's no wonder so many of us feel royally ripped off.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
The vision for The Sims 4 is a new experience that brings your Sims to life in deeper and uniquely personal ways – through emotions, personality traits, behaviors and interactions.
Only problem with that is: there's less depth & overall fewer traits and interactions.
So that leaves us with ... emotions & behaviors.
I'm wowed #jk
That quote in italics would not be out of place coming from the mouth of a fossilized executive trying to jump onto the "dot-com boom" in the late 1990s. Just add the word "synergy" in there somewhere.
Oh yes I remember the 'dot-com' area.
Apparently every single computer was going to die and the world was going to end?
Just noticed that they moved the toddler idea thread to the feedback forum. Not sure how to take that.
That is strange. I read what SimGuruDrake posted on it today [Edit: she edited her post as well] but still don't get it. How can there be feedback on something that doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be a better fit in Ideas or in Speculation and Rumor?
It's like The Emperor's New Clothes. How do you like his clothes? There are no clothes.
ETA: And now it's moved AGAIN. Back to Ideas, where it belongs... I guess.
The vision for The Sims 4 is a new experience that brings your Sims to life in deeper and uniquely personal ways – through emotions, personality traits, behaviors and interactions.
Only problem with that is: there's less depth & overall fewer traits and interactions.
So that leaves us with ... emotions & behaviors.
I'm wowed #jk
That quote in italics would not be out of place coming from the mouth of a fossilized executive trying to jump onto the "dot-com boom" in the late 1990s. Just add the word "synergy" in there somewhere.
Oh yes I remember the 'dot-com' area.
Apparently every single computer was going to die and the world was going to end?
@HappySimmer3 yeah, weird right? It's indeed very fishy not to let your game be reviewed before release (if that's a thing), unless - as my bf beautifully summarized earlier - you're a) super confident that it's great so you don't need anyone to review it or b) you know it's 🐸🐸🐸🐸 so you don't want anyone to review it. We also left some space for option c) you finished the game only just in time to release it at all, so there wasn't anything to review yet lol ...but yes, they clearly wanted this game to be bought by the fans of the series, so why they didn't make it a much stronger priority to cater to that fan base as well (and not primarily builders)? It's a mystery
@HappySimmer3 thank you for that, you are so kind. I hope one day my novel will be picked up and you guys will see E Sharp on the stands at your local book store! if only real life publishing worked like it does in the sims, and I could write a book in the morning and receive my first royalty cheque in the afternoon, lol!
Good luck to everyone who chooses to continue this conversation we have been trying to have with EA. I sincerely hope "things change" for the better and I see a reason to return to the community.
You guys are wonderful, don't let the trolls get you down, and very happy simming to you all.
Just noticed that they moved the toddler idea thread to the feedback forum. Not sure how to take that.
That is strange. I read what SimGuruDrake posted on it today but still don't get it. How can there be feedback on something that doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be a better fit in Ideas or in Speculation and Rumor?
It's like The Emperor's New Clothes. How do you like his clothes? There are no clothes.
They've moved it to Ideas after a user pointed it out, so they placed it there, and I think that's where it's final place will be.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
Just noticed that they moved the toddler idea thread to the feedback forum. Not sure how to take that.
That is strange. I read what SimGuruDrake posted on it today but still don't get it. How can there be feedback on something that doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be a better fit in Ideas or in Speculation and Rumor?
It's like The Emperor's New Clothes. How do you like his clothes? There are no clothes.
They've moved it to Ideas after a user pointed it out, so they placed it there, and I think that's where it's final place will be.
Yep, moved again. To Ideas, which makes more sense. It was in Feedback temporarily.
Did you peeps see the new 'ask a guru' thread in gd? I couldn't resist popping in with a few questions but you can bet your bottom dollar that they won't get answered. They always ignore me.
I refrained from asking about toddlers altogether...
Did you peeps see the new 'ask a guru' thread in gd? I couldn't resist popping in with a few questions but you can bet your bottom dollar that they won't get answered. They always ignore me.
I refrained from asking about toddlers altogether...
Just saw it, started reading, but had to quit before I threw up. It seems more like a fawning "let's be BFFs" thread, but then I'm old and cynical. I'm waiting for "what's your favorite color" and "what's your college major" questions.
ETA: I decided to put on my big girl pants and read it all. Plus I posed a question about toddlers. Not asking if they'll come or not, but what was the real reason as to why they weren't included in the base game, since we were told conflicting reasons.
I'm a bit worried that new thread is gonna end up like the Simulation Tech Talk one (aka dead). It is stickied at least, but I really hope they don't just sidestep loads of questions, at least not ones pertaining to things that are actual problems like culling and such.
Also I'd really love to see more input and questions answered from other gurus.
Comments
I agree think I'm going to step back in too. At least here. I love the pictures everyone posts takes me to my happy place!
I am very upset by what has happened. I have spent substantial amounts of my personal time running this thread to be inclusive as possible. I have tried to mediate between players of different versions and different opinions to avoid the upsets that were unnecessary and I was pleased to do so because I care for all of you here.
I also helped people who were new with no mention of my experience because I had no desire to 'ruin' anyone else's potential experiences. I spent ages trying to assist those locked out of 'game time' to help EA access as many potential customers as possible-again without mentioning my own experience.
So now I see this 'negative agenda' and that some of us will never get it or we want to be unhappy and it quite honestly broke my heart. If my trust has diminished in Maxis it is not through lack of trying at my, or any other customers, end.
I want to apologise if I advocated patience for no end and encouraged good, detailed feedback no matter your opinion. I had no idea that it wasn't welcome or would be used to sort into a 'negative' agenda pile.
I honestly do not believe any of the family players have 'negative agendas' and I'm sorry if you were upset too. You have shown grace, love in face of hatred and compassion towards each other no matter what opinion people had. Yes this thread had its 'moments', generally to do with people who wished to 'prove' that the sides thing was true or trolls wishing to upset people. But with each experience you rose above it and kept the thread running well and were rather civil in response to truly nasty comments.
I want to thank each and every one of you for your passion, love and friendship shown to each other. Your love of this game shines through to me and I'm very sorry if that's not recognised at the end of the day. I've done my best and I really would do anything for you all-you are amongst the most wonderful people I've met on the internet and it's been a pleasure to be your OP.
I left for a few days to see if the situation would be clarified and cleared up before I said anything. But a private message to Drake was not replied to and no clarifications were sought so I thought I should try to clarify my position. I'm around but I don't know how I feel about any of this and am still processing the situation. If you need me I'm available via pm and if the situation changes I will revisit my post to say so.
Much love.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Speaking of which, I tend to be a big picture thinker so I like to have an understanding about things like visions too.
One of the things that helped me was this thread, which made so many things make sense to me. http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/858721/leaked-early-gameplay-of-the-sims-4-new-information/p1
If repeating what I believe to be the truth about the game is considered a "negative agenda", then so be it. It was EAs choice to make this game the way it is, and if they'd never decided to call it TS4 in the first place then maybe people wouldn't be asking for the things they loved that were in past games, things that they apparently can't or don't want to add. Maybe in the beginning they thought they could do it, I don't know. But ever since the executive decision to attempt to make a more traditional experience out of their 'Freeplay Mode', I think they've been struggling to find a vision. JMO
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I thought I'd cross post my response here to show you all I've offered my help once again despite what has happened and I'll let you know if it goes anywhere and if there is movement on accepting feedback. I think you'll appreciate that I really do value you all here and believe you should get far more credit for the way you keep this thread running well.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
If they had called it The Sims: Young Adult Life or something like that, I think that perhaps there would have been more unhappy gamers at first but that there would have been far different expectations and fewer ensuing disappointments.
TS4 has been out for basically two years now, so there have been about three years (including prerelease press and hype) to comment on the game. My feeling is that what we see is all it can be. They no longer want to hear suggestions of how to fix it, because it's unfixable. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm on some secret blacklist of "Simmers I Ignore," which is sad but something I'm OK with now.
(waves madly @sparkfairy1, hi!)
Oh, and I loved your lemons/plums/prunes comment.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
I feel the same way. I also expected what you did for 4. Agree also had they named it something other than TS4 I would have realized this was a different game like TS2 Castaway or TSM. I can't see at all where this game deserves a numerical spot in the franchise.
@HappySimmer3 indeed! That's what I always think as well: if they simply hadn't called it "The Sims 4" but "Sims Stories" or "Crazy Carefree YA Sims", they would be getting far less backlash for what they've done to the series, because people wouldn't have considered it a sequel in the first place. And they would've never expected it to adhere to the same standards as all previous games. Like our good old Wright said, the Sims is supposed to "enable stories", not tell us what to do. That's the opposite of what they've done now, and there's really not that much "free play" left to speak of. There's honestly no depth to a date where you have to speak x times about the food or make x amount of flirt attempts, and it's hard for me to ignore those goals, especially after that giant pop-up tells me that my mediocre date hasn't won me any medals. That isn't to say some people may not prefer this game play to sandbox, but yeah, sandbox should still be entirely available. But I guess the statistics are telling them our play styles are outdated? lol
Oh well, smh. At least I just had very good spareribs
Yes, apparently all their data told them that a traditional sims game would no longer be profitable. But then I think of how they tried to present this game as a traditional sims experience before release and never once hinted at all the changes they made to it, to the point of not even letting any gaming sites review it before launch. That makes me wonder how reliable their data actually is, since someone in management decided that they needed us more 'traditional' simmers to purchase the game after all. It's no wonder so many of us feel royally ripped off.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Oh yes I remember the 'dot-com' area.
Apparently every single computer was going to die and the world was going to end?
That is strange. I read what SimGuruDrake posted on it today [Edit: she edited her post as well] but still don't get it. How can there be feedback on something that doesn't exist? Wouldn't it be a better fit in Ideas or in Speculation and Rumor?
It's like The Emperor's New Clothes. How do you like his clothes? There are no clothes.
ETA: And now it's moved AGAIN. Back to Ideas, where it belongs... I guess.
Actually, the dot-com boom refers to this period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble
Good luck to everyone who chooses to continue this conversation we have been trying to have with EA. I sincerely hope "things change" for the better and I see a reason to return to the community.
You guys are wonderful, don't let the trolls get you down, and very happy simming to you all.
Much love!
They've moved it to Ideas after a user pointed it out, so they placed it there, and I think that's where it's final place will be.
Yep, moved again. To Ideas, which makes more sense. It was in Feedback temporarily.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I refrained from asking about toddlers altogether...
Just saw it, started reading, but had to quit before I threw up. It seems more like a fawning "let's be BFFs" thread, but then I'm old and cynical. I'm waiting for "what's your favorite color" and "what's your college major" questions.
ETA: I decided to put on my big girl pants and read it all. Plus I posed a question about toddlers. Not asking if they'll come or not, but what was the real reason as to why they weren't included in the base game, since we were told conflicting reasons.
Also I'd really love to see more input and questions answered from other gurus.