To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Yep. But I reached the point long ago where I quit getting upset about it. Now all I'm interested in is watching the inevitable train wreck...
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Indeed. It's an odd cycle.
Release game with a lot of lacking content -> Reassure people content they want will be coming in the future because the engine will make everything possible -> Time passes -> New content releases and patches prompt the same questions about the same lacking content -> Tell people they can't say anything and to be patient -> More time passes -> New content releases, people are still asking the same questions -> 2 years passed now in total -> Get angry at customers for still wanting the same thing & still asking about it when they know full well no one can talk about it
I get it, you can't talk about it but ... the truth is, no one would be talking about it anymore if the stuff had just been added over time.
@Wildley Curious It goes in waves for me. I can be upset on behalf of others, even though I myself am not particularly interested in the game. I would like them to really get to the criticism given. (gah, sometimes its so hard to explain things in english, sorry if this was strangely worded)
To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Yep. But I reached the point long ago where I quit getting upset about it. Now all I'm interested in is watching the inevitable train wreck...
Oh yes, the poor hype train of doom...
It seems that tickets for the hype train are not selling as fast as they used to!
To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Indeed. It's an odd cycle.
Release game with a lot of lacking content -> Reassure people content they want will be coming in the future because the engine will make everything possible -> Time passes -> New content releases and patches prompt the same questions about the same lacking content -> Tell people they can't say anything and to be patient -> More time passes -> New content releases, people are still asking the same questions -> 2 years passed now in total -> Get angry at customers for still wanting the same thing & still asking about it when they know full well no one can talk about it
I get it, you can't talk about it but ... the truth is, no one would be talking about it anymore if the stuff had just been added over time.
Honestly, I truly believe people have far surpassed being upset at the 'silence' and the laws that keep the company having to be so. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I, personally, realized that this game would never be for me when it was the Devs and staff themselves that decided to speak as if we should not have a negative opinion, and began to loop who disagreed with them and the game as a 'yeller.'
When they begin to poke fun at their customers by placing baby bottles in packs as a joke, and when the community manager begins to say 'actually it's you, not us' rather than anyone ever offering an apology for absolutely ANYTHING.. for me, that's a good sign that I no longer want to support this company.
And I don't just mean for TS4, either.. I mean they will not see a dime from me unless they somehow make some of this better. It far surpasses toddlers, and it far surpasses their inability to speak (I understand why they can't, nor do I expect them to) -- I want an apology for the condescending attitudes, the consistent jokes made at the expense of their customers, etc.
Again, I can only speak for myself, personally. That's my breaking point.
To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Indeed. It's an odd cycle.
Release game with a lot of lacking content -> Reassure people content they want will be coming in the future because the engine will make everything possible -> Time passes -> New content releases and patches prompt the same questions about the same lacking content -> Tell people they can't say anything and to be patient -> More time passes -> New content releases, people are still asking the same questions -> 2 years passed now in total -> Get angry at customers for still wanting the same thing & still asking about it when they know full well no one can talk about it
I get it, you can't talk about it but ... the truth is, no one would be talking about it anymore if the stuff had just been added over time.
Honestly, I truly believe people have far surpassed being upset at the 'silence' and the laws that keep the company having to be so. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I, personally, realized that this game would never be for me when it was the Devs and staff themselves that decided to speak as if we should not have a negative opinion, and began to loop who disagreed with them and the game as a 'yeller.'
When they begin to poke fun at their customers by placing baby bottles in packs as a joke, and when the community manager begins to say 'actually it's you, not us' rather than anyone ever offering an apology for absolutely ANYTHING.. for me, that's a good sign that I no longer want to support this company.
And I don't just mean for TS4, either.. I mean they will not see a dime from me unless they somehow make some of this better. It far surpasses toddlers, and it far surpasses their inability to speak (I understand why they can't, nor do I expect them to) -- I want an apology for the condescending attitudes, the consistent jokes made at the expense of their customers, etc.
Again, I can only speak for myself, personally. That's my breaking point.
Oh I absolutely agree with you, I was being a little sarcastic.
How EA is handling not just this, but a whole bunch of other franchises is quite honestly despicable.
It seems to me that the comm manager has a rather low opinion of the average simmer and his/her mental abilities. Either that or it's just an echo of what EA thinks of pretty much most of its gamers. You know, I really do think TS4 has potential, I think with the right philosophy and mindset behind it, the engine should be strong enough to support a variety of things people are missing - and even things they don't know they could be missing yet. They're turning this around on us so easily, though, it's sad. I even get the feeling they purposefully answer to the more 'inflammatory' statements and disregard most responses that actually are constructive. I won't speculate as to why that is, but anyway. And when they answer to every single positive suggestion with "yeah cool, but you people won't get it / won't listen / won't comprehend / won't be positive / will just run with our comments and ruin it for everyone", I honestly think they could just come out and say "if you guys weren't so stupid, we would definitely do that!" ... What surprises me though is that there are definitely other game developers who are fully capable of engaging in these kinds of discussions without that negativity, and without players feeling frustrated and confused. So I'm not just guessing that this dialogue between devs/companies & players is possible, I know for a fact that it is. I've seen it more than once. But those companies don't have as much of a history of half-promising or strongly suggesting things they don't seem to deliver on for years on end. Maybe EA should realize that if people don't trust them and if they think they're milking franchises & fans - that there's a reason for that.
But anyway, I honestly don't want to think about this anymore. I've got a lot of work to do, and I'm so sad to see how many dedicated, smart, talented & brilliant people come together to really think about what's going on & how to solve it, only to be told that they don't "get it" anyway.
To devote so much time to provide ideas and feedback as so many have done several years, and not get anything back other than occasionally "we hear you." And finally, when they begin to communicate, we are told that we are negative or having a hard time to adopt to new experiences. Then you understand that you come to a dead end.
Yep. But I reached the point long ago where I quit getting upset about it. Now all I'm interested in is watching the inevitable train wreck...
Oh yes, the poor hype train of doom...
It seems that tickets for the hype train are not selling as fast as they used to!
Ah yes, the tickets were often sold way faster than they should've been. I'm not sure how many people ever actually looked at the destination before buying, which was they ended up being disappointed when they ended up somewhere that was completely different from what they expected.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
One of these days I'll have to see if I managed to save any of the pre-release posts from the devs. If you think this is bad, reading those would really plum you off, particularly the post verifying all life stages would be included. I was ecstatic when I read that. Of course, I (thankfully) came back the next day and read the retraction and man did this place blow up. Between that and the "If you don't buy Sims 4 there may not be a Sims 5" comment this place was an absolute inferno.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Hi guys, sorry to say that yes, I've decided to leave. Pretty sad about it really. I feel like devs have made it clear they will never be able to engage with us or involve us in development. I've given my suggestions, staying here is just making me frustrated. It just plums because I'm going to miss a lot of you a ton.
It's really just my bad luck that EA has killed every franchise I've ever loved (except for Bethesda games and league of legends.) Simcity-dead. Knights of the old republic - turned into an mmo. Dragon age - turned into an 'action' rpg. I knew from day one when they announced s4, the plastic look; the corner cutting... Typical ea re-imagining a game into what their market research tells them will be more cost efficient and main stream popular. I don't know why I thought maxis could find someway to make something special out of those constraints... Wishful thinking. But if maxis doesn't even want the old fans, the 'niche' people that propped this game up from the start, then I'm not going to waste my time. Sorry guys, I know there's been a mass exodus of late, but it's for good reason. The devs have all but asked us to stop talking to them, as far as I'm concerned. A plumming shame, but par for the course with EA.
Good luck, I admire your tenacity, but I'm out of steam and don't see that changing. I'll poke my head in from time to time probably, but I don't want to post anymore. It's like bashing my head against a wall. I'm not enough of a masochist to continue.
I wish you all very happy simming, and thank you so much for your support and kindness. I hope that continues.
@sparkfairy1 thank you so much for this sanctuary, sorry I had to lay down my sword so to speak, but the fight has left me, and I've finally moved from anger to acceptance. This isn't my sims anymore. I hope one day I'll get the life sim I have been hoping for, but I doubt it'll be from this company.
Good luck, I admire your tenacity, but I'm out of steam and don't see that changing.
I hope being out of steam doesn't mean you're out of Steam, 'cause there are some great games there! (Sorry, I'm attracted to puns like a moth to the flame.)
EA/Maxis/the devs/the gurus have made it quite clear, especially lately, that they don't really want to hear anything negative. Saying "We hear you" and doing nothing about it is like a distracted parent who says the same thing to make a child be quiet, with no intention of actually doing anything. People, what you see in TS4 is what you get. The basics of the game are not going to improve. Every patch seems to break something new, without fixing the biggest bugs.
Fortunately, it seems that after the latest E3 and Gamescon, we gamers are on the threshold of a whole bunch of awesome releases. I mean, look at what's coming this fall ! Do you like simulation and building? Planet Coaster. Strategy more your thing? Civilization VI. Dark RPG-thriller? Dishonored 2. And tons more.
@esharpmajor I'm sorry to see you go but I understand and agree with what you've said. In fact, I have pretty much always agreed with what you've said and with your departure, I believe simmers have lost an important voice. You are so good at writing and that combined with a very sharp intellect has produced some epically fantastic posts that have certainly spoken to me and for me over the past few years. I hope you are making, or will someday be able to make, your living from writing because you are too talented not to.
I wish you well, and if you ever feel like stopping by to say hello maybe a few who have known you as a fellow forum member will be left to greet you. Best wishes in whatever you endeavor!
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
@SimTrippy I believe you're correct. It seems that 'managing a forum' to EA means that one minimizes anything that could potentially affect game sales, and that certainly includes posts from customers who are dissatisfied with your product. And now thanks to her calling the forum 'toxic', we've got all kinds of simmers running around repeating that to everyone with whom they disagree. What a way to run a forum. Way to go.
Maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't attempt to communicate if that's the best they can do.
I also wanted to tell you that I've enjoyed reading your intelligent and insightful posts on the forum over the past few days. It's discouraging to see so many bright, creative people give up but I certainly understand it. The only reason I stay is because I play the previous games and because I'm just stubborn enough to refuse to go away. EA made this bed, and now they get to lie in it. If they're not having any fun either, that's not my problem
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Wow, very disappointed by Drake's comments. I understand what she's saying, and that it must be frustrating that we can't accept their lack of answers as answers... But I feel like EA is gas lighting its fans. The whole conversation between ea and the community is laughable.
EA: There will be all life stages.
Fans: Yay!
Ea: Actually we ran out of time, no toddlers.
Fans: *panicked screaming*
EA: Don't worry, the base game is strong and we can add all the things you are asking for.
Fans: Oh good, so you plan on adding toddlers?
Ea: What? Since when do you guys want toddlers? No no we meant we can add pools.
Fans: Are you kidding? Of course we want complete life stages, this is a life sim!
EA: Is it? Are you sure?
Fans: What?! Yes! Stop being obtuse!
EA: Ok ok we'll let you know what we've decided.
Fans: ...
EA: We've decided: More stuff packs!
Fans: Ok... What about tod-
EA: OMG WILL YOU STOP WITH THE TODDLERS GEEZE ENOUGH ALREADY!
FAns: But... You said you'd let us know if...
EA: Look, we talk about toddlers every day. We'll let you know.
Fans: everyday for 2 years and still no decision? What are you guys doing over there?
Ea: Look, you guys have no idea what goes into making a game. Just be quiet while we work. Trust us.
Fans: Um, ok... I guess..
EA: Big announcement!
Fans: Omgomg is it...?
EA: ...a seasonal event? You guessed it!
Fans: So... Made any progress towards...
EA: WOW rude we made you this awesome thing you didn't ask for and yet you continue to ask for missing features. No pleasing some people.
Fans: We CAN be pleased, just let us know if toddlers are being worked on!
EA: *fingers in ears* IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE, literally no way to please them.
I think instead of just saying I hear you, they should answer ideas and say: Good idea, we will discuss that in our next meeting or unfortunately that's not something we are looking at adding within the next year/months...
@SimTrippy And now thanks to her calling the forum 'toxic', we've got all kinds of simmers running around repeating that to everyone with whom they disagree. What a way to run a forum. Way to go.
I think instead of just saying I hear you, they should answer ideas and say: Good idea, we will discuss that in our next meeting or unfortunately that's not something we are looking at adding within the next year/months...
That doesn't do much either. Not long after release in an Ask A Guru thread I was wondering about the option to not be herded into CAS every time you start a new game. I got a 'we'll take a look' kind of answer. Two years later I've not gotten a response of something like 'It's just not doable' or 'It's something we need to work on' or even 'That just won't work'. So I just came away with the feeling I was being pacified and dismissed.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
I think instead of just saying I hear you, they should answer ideas and say: Good idea, we will discuss that in our next meeting or unfortunately that's not something we are looking at adding within the next year/months...
That doesn't do much either. Not long after release in an Ask A Guru thread I was wondering about the option to not be herded into CAS every time you start a new game. I got a 'we'll take a look' kind of answer. Two years later I've not gotten a response of something like 'It's just not doable' or 'It's something we need to work on' or even 'That just won't work'. So I just came away with the feeling I was being pacified and dismissed.
I think its been made pretty clear now that the only thing Maxis is interested in is their vision. Why they even bothered to put out those surveys before the game was released is beyond me - they certainly didn't listen.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I understand that they can't always give us answers a year in advance etc. However, I never had an issue in Sims 1,2,3. They did not answer all questions, but I feel like they stated and explained enough and cared for feedback enough so that simmers felt heard.
On that note, does anyone know what this mysterious "vision" is?
Because I still don't
I don't think they know the 'vision' is as such because they never told anyone.
I think it is to try and make a game that is constantly being expanded, constantly being improved with many new ways to play. A very and immersive type of gameplay that people would enjoy for years to come...
The vision for The Sims 4 is a new experience that brings your Sims to life in deeper and uniquely personal ways – through emotions, personality traits, behaviors and interactions.
Only problem with that is: there's less depth & overall fewer traits and interactions.
So that leaves us with ... emotions & behaviors.
Comments
Yep. But I reached the point long ago where I quit getting upset about it. Now all I'm interested in is watching the inevitable train wreck...
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Indeed. It's an odd cycle.
Release game with a lot of lacking content -> Reassure people content they want will be coming in the future because the engine will make everything possible -> Time passes -> New content releases and patches prompt the same questions about the same lacking content -> Tell people they can't say anything and to be patient -> More time passes -> New content releases, people are still asking the same questions -> 2 years passed now in total -> Get angry at customers for still wanting the same thing & still asking about it when they know full well no one can talk about it
I get it, you can't talk about it but ... the truth is, no one would be talking about it anymore if the stuff had just been added over time.
Oh yes, the poor hype train of doom...
It seems that tickets for the hype train are not selling as fast as they used to!
Honestly, I truly believe people have far surpassed being upset at the 'silence' and the laws that keep the company having to be so. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I, personally, realized that this game would never be for me when it was the Devs and staff themselves that decided to speak as if we should not have a negative opinion, and began to loop who disagreed with them and the game as a 'yeller.'
When they begin to poke fun at their customers by placing baby bottles in packs as a joke, and when the community manager begins to say 'actually it's you, not us' rather than anyone ever offering an apology for absolutely ANYTHING.. for me, that's a good sign that I no longer want to support this company.
And I don't just mean for TS4, either.. I mean they will not see a dime from me unless they somehow make some of this better. It far surpasses toddlers, and it far surpasses their inability to speak (I understand why they can't, nor do I expect them to) -- I want an apology for the condescending attitudes, the consistent jokes made at the expense of their customers, etc.
Again, I can only speak for myself, personally. That's my breaking point.
Oh I absolutely agree with you, I was being a little sarcastic.
How EA is handling not just this, but a whole bunch of other franchises is quite honestly despicable.
It seems to me that the comm manager has a rather low opinion of the average simmer and his/her mental abilities. Either that or it's just an echo of what EA thinks of pretty much most of its gamers. You know, I really do think TS4 has potential, I think with the right philosophy and mindset behind it, the engine should be strong enough to support a variety of things people are missing - and even things they don't know they could be missing yet. They're turning this around on us so easily, though, it's sad. I even get the feeling they purposefully answer to the more 'inflammatory' statements and disregard most responses that actually are constructive. I won't speculate as to why that is, but anyway. And when they answer to every single positive suggestion with "yeah cool, but you people won't get it / won't listen / won't comprehend / won't be positive / will just run with our comments and ruin it for everyone", I honestly think they could just come out and say "if you guys weren't so stupid, we would definitely do that!" ... What surprises me though is that there are definitely other game developers who are fully capable of engaging in these kinds of discussions without that negativity, and without players feeling frustrated and confused. So I'm not just guessing that this dialogue between devs/companies & players is possible, I know for a fact that it is. I've seen it more than once. But those companies don't have as much of a history of half-promising or strongly suggesting things they don't seem to deliver on for years on end. Maybe EA should realize that if people don't trust them and if they think they're milking franchises & fans - that there's a reason for that.
But anyway, I honestly don't want to think about this anymore. I've got a lot of work to do, and I'm so sad to see how many dedicated, smart, talented & brilliant people come together to really think about what's going on & how to solve it, only to be told that they don't "get it" anyway.
Ah yes, the tickets were often sold way faster than they should've been. I'm not sure how many people ever actually looked at the destination before buying, which was they ended up being disappointed when they ended up somewhere that was completely different from what they expected.
I mean its all good and well to say that they do. when they obviously haven't.
I have given up on ts4.
I want to see how long before they realize that the train has crashed.
This train wreck will be fun .
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
It's really just my bad luck that EA has killed every franchise I've ever loved (except for Bethesda games and league of legends.) Simcity-dead. Knights of the old republic - turned into an mmo. Dragon age - turned into an 'action' rpg. I knew from day one when they announced s4, the plastic look; the corner cutting... Typical ea re-imagining a game into what their market research tells them will be more cost efficient and main stream popular. I don't know why I thought maxis could find someway to make something special out of those constraints... Wishful thinking. But if maxis doesn't even want the old fans, the 'niche' people that propped this game up from the start, then I'm not going to waste my time. Sorry guys, I know there's been a mass exodus of late, but it's for good reason. The devs have all but asked us to stop talking to them, as far as I'm concerned. A plumming shame, but par for the course with EA.
Good luck, I admire your tenacity, but I'm out of steam and don't see that changing. I'll poke my head in from time to time probably, but I don't want to post anymore. It's like bashing my head against a wall. I'm not enough of a masochist to continue.
I wish you all very happy simming, and thank you so much for your support and kindness. I hope that continues.
@sparkfairy1 thank you so much for this sanctuary, sorry I had to lay down my sword so to speak, but the fight has left me, and I've finally moved from anger to acceptance. This isn't my sims anymore. I hope one day I'll get the life sim I have been hoping for, but I doubt it'll be from this company.
I hope being out of steam doesn't mean you're out of Steam, 'cause there are some great games there! (Sorry, I'm attracted to puns like a moth to the flame.)
EA/Maxis/the devs/the gurus have made it quite clear, especially lately, that they don't really want to hear anything negative. Saying "We hear you" and doing nothing about it is like a distracted parent who says the same thing to make a child be quiet, with no intention of actually doing anything. People, what you see in TS4 is what you get. The basics of the game are not going to improve. Every patch seems to break something new, without fixing the biggest bugs.
Fortunately, it seems that after the latest E3 and Gamescon, we gamers are on the threshold of a whole bunch of awesome releases. I mean, look at what's coming this fall ! Do you like simulation and building? Planet Coaster. Strategy more your thing? Civilization VI. Dark RPG-thriller? Dishonored 2. And tons more.
I wish you well, and if you ever feel like stopping by to say hello maybe a few who have known you as a fellow forum member will be left to greet you. Best wishes in whatever you endeavor!
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't attempt to communicate if that's the best they can do.
I also wanted to tell you that I've enjoyed reading your intelligent and insightful posts on the forum over the past few days. It's discouraging to see so many bright, creative people give up but I certainly understand it. The only reason I stay is because I play the previous games and because I'm just stubborn enough to refuse to go away. EA made this bed, and now they get to lie in it. If they're not having any fun either, that's not my problem
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
AMAZING
And a million times yes to this:
That doesn't do much either. Not long after release in an Ask A Guru thread I was wondering about the option to not be herded into CAS every time you start a new game. I got a 'we'll take a look' kind of answer. Two years later I've not gotten a response of something like 'It's just not doable' or 'It's something we need to work on' or even 'That just won't work'. So I just came away with the feeling I was being pacified and dismissed.
I think its been made pretty clear now that the only thing Maxis is interested in is their vision. Why they even bothered to put out those surveys before the game was released is beyond me - they certainly didn't listen.
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Because I still don't
I don't think they know the 'vision' is as such because they never told anyone.
I think it is to try and make a game that is constantly being expanded, constantly being improved with many new ways to play. A very and immersive type of gameplay that people would enjoy for years to come...
That was back in the TS3 days though...
The vision for The Sims 4 is a new experience that brings your Sims to life in deeper and uniquely personal ways – through emotions, personality traits, behaviors and interactions.
Only problem with that is: there's less depth & overall fewer traits and interactions.
So that leaves us with ... emotions & behaviors.
I'm wowed