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Sims 2 Development insight

«1
BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 2,485 Member
For anyone interested in sims2 development from a dev. Part 1 and part 2.
I love hearing about the process of game making. And although he didn't mention it, it even gives a little insight on what ts4 development could be like behind the scenes imo.



Post edited by EA_Leeloo on
Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(

Comments

  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,062 Member
    Cool. This podcast was really good at showing the history of the Sims 2 as well and Bella's story.
    https://open.spotify.com/episode/6qik1RKFDwAi528S6aajds
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • auroraael14auroraael14 Posts: 855 Member
    Thanks! I really enjoyed reading about the sims 2 development.
    Check out my gallery for house builds! Username: aejp24
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,062 Member
    edited March 29
    Video about that thread:
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Colton147147Colton147147 Posts: 10,366 Member
    Sims 2 Remastered confirmed.
    Your Justine Keaton Enthusiast.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 5,369 Member
    Sims 2 Remastered confirmed.

    Oh, I wish!!
  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 3,205 Member
    Great video! Thank you for sharing! Really shows the different climate in which the game was made.
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,194 Member
    Very interesting read!! Really cool how they already had done tons of tech before the launch of the game to support pets and stuff down the line.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
  • DoodlyDoofusDoodlyDoofus Posts: 818 Member
    I imagine if Sims 4 devs would talk about their development insights it would read "EA finally let me outside for three minutes after 13 months of work on bugs. The sun burnt my skin, I had not seen it for so long. If only I could've escaped, but we all knew what would happen if we tried that.....Oh we'll never forget what happened to Stevie."
  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 3,816 Member
    I read the first part of this a few days ago and I very much enjoyed it.
  • icmnfrshicmnfrsh Posts: 18,503 Member
    Thank you so much for this! As a huge fan of The Sims 2, any insights into its development are always interesting to me. All the could've beens and whatnot
    Don't manhandle the urchin. He's not for sale. FIND YOUR OWN! - Xenon the Antiquarian, Dragon Age II

    Race Against the Clock: Can your elder sim turn back the clock before their time runs out?
  • bixtersbixters Posts: 1,655 Member
    I imagine if Sims 4 devs would talk about their development insights it would read "EA finally let me outside for three minutes after 13 months of work on bugs. The sun burnt my skin, I had not seen it for so long. If only I could've escaped, but we all knew what would happen if we tried that.....Oh we'll never forget what happened to Stevie."

    :D:D It's true though.

    "EA finally let have 5 extra dollars for that new pack we're working on. Now, we can finally add in 2 animations. When we asked if we could have money for 3 new animations, EA was so generous that they gave us 2 nickles and 3 pennies they found on the floor. EA is so generous!"
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,154 Member
    Wow. They had 2 QA testers on staff. And when he spoke about how you are supposed to be able to walk away from the computer for a while and come back and your sims still be alive...that hit home. I used to cook dinner and eat while TS2 was running and always came back to alive sims with new memories. Just the other week in TS4, I left to go to the bathroom and came back to my sim dead from a cooking fire.
    logo_489628_web_zps00dd166f.png
  • Brd709Brd709 Posts: 370 Member
    Anyone remember the trailer for The Sims 2 which the final product turned out nothing like?
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,543 Member
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,154 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.
    logo_489628_web_zps00dd166f.png
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,543 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.

    Oh don’t get me wrong, I think it’s actually VERY impressive what The Sims 4’s developers were able to do in such a short time considering where the project started, EA’s poor management, and the insanely short amount of time they had. It’s just disappointing because I think the game could’ve been huge and so well-received upon release if circumstances were different.

    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong. As for QA, even looking at the latest cleaning kit pack, they’re pushing out these huge gameplay balance changes to it already. Did nobody think to play with the pack for a week to see how it would impact daily gameplay? I often get the impression packs aren’t played with enough before release. That’s why live mode lacks so much.
  • TS1299TS1299 Posts: 1,409 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.

    Oh don’t get me wrong, I think it’s actually VERY impressive what The Sims 4’s developers were able to do in such a short time considering where the project started, EA’s poor management, and the insanely short amount of time they had. It’s just disappointing because I think the game could’ve been huge and so well-received upon release if circumstances were different.

    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong. As for QA, even looking at the latest cleaning kit pack, they’re pushing out these huge gameplay balance changes to it already. Did nobody think to play with the pack for a week to see how it would impact daily gameplay? I often get the impression packs aren’t played with enough before release. That’s why live mode lacks so much.

    I just wish that EA Would give full creative control on The Sims. They Gave Bioware creative control in Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem (both are lackluster) which failed because the leaders at Bioware who replaced the old leaders have no vision for the game. Meanwhile the leaders at Maxis feels that they had a vision on what they wanted to do in the game it is just that they are limited on what they can do because instead of not having Stuff Packs and Kits for EA they can use those resources for Quality of Life Improvements.

    Let's be real. I HIGHLY Doubt that it was SimGuruLyndsy (Head of The Sims) or any of the development team would want to create Kits that contain like 4-10 items to be sold for $5. More likely scenario is that EA noticed how packs are doing well and was tasked by EA to create another "Monetizable" content.

    If They can give DICE and even Respawn full creative Control in their projects then they should have also given it to The Sims Studio. Yes the studio creates packs based on what they wanted to create and surveys and etc. But you can definitely know if a feature or pack is something that is done by the studio out of whims (First pet Stuff) or something that is forced by EA.

    EA Should have been strict at Bioware and not Maxis.
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,154 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.

    Oh don’t get me wrong, I think it’s actually VERY impressive what The Sims 4’s developers were able to do in such a short time considering where the project started, EA’s poor management, and the insanely short amount of time they had. It’s just disappointing because I think the game could’ve been huge and so well-received upon release if circumstances were different.

    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong. As for QA, even looking at the latest cleaning kit pack, they’re pushing out these huge gameplay balance changes to it already. Did nobody think to play with the pack for a week to see how it would impact daily gameplay? I often get the impression packs aren’t played with enough before release. That’s why live mode lacks so much.

    I just wish that EA Would give full creative control on The Sims. They Gave Bioware creative control in Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem (both are lackluster) which failed because the leaders at Bioware who replaced the old leaders have no vision for the game. Meanwhile the leaders at Maxis feels that they had a vision on what they wanted to do in the game it is just that they are limited on what they can do because instead of not having Stuff Packs and Kits for EA they can use those resources for Quality of Life Improvements.

    Let's be real. I HIGHLY Doubt that it was SimGuruLyndsy (Head of The Sims) or any of the development team would want to create Kits that contain like 4-10 items to be sold for $5. More likely scenario is that EA noticed how packs are doing well and was tasked by EA to create another "Monetizable" content.

    If They can give DICE and even Respawn full creative Control in their projects then they should have also given it to The Sims Studio. Yes the studio creates packs based on what they wanted to create and surveys and etc. But you can definitely know if a feature or pack is something that is done by the studio out of whims (First pet Stuff) or something that is forced by EA.

    EA Should have been strict at Bioware and not Maxis.

    This is not how it works. EA would be the one saying make me money. Maxis is the one that comes up with the ways to make money. And kits is their brainchild. So place that blame where it belongs. Business first, fun game maybe. But the sims is a money maker, even when people are dissatisfied, they still keep buying the DLC.

    To me, it is clear that their way of saving money is by not keeping programmers on staff and not having any quality control testers. They have tons of FX people, though. (n n f c n ccx x - I'm leaving this because it was my dog and she thought she did a good job) I do remember early on when the game released one of the gurus mentioned that they wanted the engine to not require hiring expensive programmers when they created packs and it shows. The amount of bugs that get shipped and the haphazard integration into the base game is evident that they are not spending money on the right things. And that is all on Maxis. They make all the decisions on this game and they decide the directions.
    logo_489628_web_zps00dd166f.png
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,062 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.
    Yeah when I talked to a Sims 2 artist he said how rough the work conditions were back then too. He said later that some friends of his that work for EA says it has improved a lot. Game industry in general isn't under an union, so they tend to work more than 40 hours a week and closer to 60 to 80 hours a week from what I found out from asking different developers in it.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 3,205 Member
    Brd709 wrote: »
    Anyone remember the trailer for The Sims 2 which the final product turned out nothing like?
    You mean the one set in the living room taking us through the years of family adventures?
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,380 Member
    edited April 3
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong.

    @Sk8rblaze But people don't care. And if people don't care then this is never gonna change. The standards will keep getting lower and lower and as long as people keep handing out their money the game will keep getting worse, with less content, more recycling of animations and features.

    It really is up to the community to push for things to get better, but at this point I am convinced a big part of the Sims community just doesn't know better. (which is not a bad thing, it's just what happens when you only play one game.)
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,194 Member
    edited April 3
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing! Halfway through reading, and I can already feel just how different the dev culture was then compared to now. It just feels that they were full of hardworking people trying really hard to push the barrier, whereas every time I read behind the scenes for TS4, it’s about rushing the product out and salvaging whatever they could from their flop online idea for EA’s wallet.

    But to be fair, he did say that the EP cycle is insane and even he burnt out of it.

    Still not mad at the TS4 devs because they did what they could with that mess. But I am critical of them for putting basic stuff on the back burner. It's clear they no longer have a staff of programmers or QA on staff.

    Oh don’t get me wrong, I think it’s actually VERY impressive what The Sims 4’s developers were able to do in such a short time considering where the project started, EA’s poor management, and the insanely short amount of time they had. It’s just disappointing because I think the game could’ve been huge and so well-received upon release if circumstances were different.

    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong. As for QA, even looking at the latest cleaning kit pack, they’re pushing out these huge gameplay balance changes to it already. Did nobody think to play with the pack for a week to see how it would impact daily gameplay? I often get the impression packs aren’t played with enough before release. That’s why live mode lacks so much.

    I just wish that EA Would give full creative control on The Sims. They Gave Bioware creative control in Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem (both are lackluster) which failed because the leaders at Bioware who replaced the old leaders have no vision for the game. Meanwhile the leaders at Maxis feels that they had a vision on what they wanted to do in the game it is just that they are limited on what they can do because instead of not having Stuff Packs and Kits for EA they can use those resources for Quality of Life Improvements.

    Let's be real. I HIGHLY Doubt that it was SimGuruLyndsy (Head of The Sims) or any of the development team would want to create Kits that contain like 4-10 items to be sold for $5. More likely scenario is that EA noticed how packs are doing well and was tasked by EA to create another "Monetizable" content.

    If They can give DICE and even Respawn full creative Control in their projects then they should have also given it to The Sims Studio. Yes the studio creates packs based on what they wanted to create and surveys and etc. But you can definitely know if a feature or pack is something that is done by the studio out of whims (First pet Stuff) or something that is forced by EA.

    EA Should have been strict at Bioware and not Maxis.

    Full creative control isn't always a good thing...I guess it really depends on who's leading the teams. Many of the executives in command of the studios don't understand their own studios, what they are good at and what the fans expect from them that's the main issue. Remember Rachel the first executive producer on The Sims 4 who knew virtually nothing about The Sims? Her dancing on the stage still haunts this game. Bioware was a full blown mess after the release of DA:I. EA made them shot themselves in the foot....twice! And yes, the kits are likely an EA demand so that The Sims can bring in money on the same level as Fifa and other EA games with heavy monetization. I'm also guessing the latest Sims 4 packs didn't do *that* well so they had to find another way to bring in more money.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,154 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I definitely get the feeling that there aren’t as many programmers or QA on the team as The Sims 2 though. When you start seeing repurposed features that function the same exact way as existing ones, nothing but fluff and new animations, and broken features, it becomes very clear programming isn’t too strong.

    @Sk8rblaze But people don't care. And if people don't care then this is never gonna change. The standards will keep getting lower and lower and as long as people keep handing out their money the game will keep getting worse, with less content, more recycling of animations and features.

    It really is up to the community to push for things to get better, but at this point I am convinced a big part of the Sims community just doesn't know better. (which is not a bad thing, it's just what happens when you only play one game.)

    I think once Paralives comes out and the sims has competition, standards will rise. The reason people dish out money is because they have no other option for this type of game and EA/Maxis sets the tone for everything. I see it in the Paralives patreon all the time. People ask for the same exact features the sims has because they have no imagination and don't know that you can ask for more. If Paralives has more features, less bugs, and a studio that is willing to listen to and patch things quickly, I think Maxis is going to find themselves having to up their standards because people will either leave the sims or expect a lot more overall.
    logo_489628_web_zps00dd166f.png
  • Brd709Brd709 Posts: 370 Member
    Brd709 wrote: »
    Anyone remember the trailer for The Sims 2 which the final product turned out nothing like?
    You mean the one set in the living room taking us through the years of family adventures?

    That's the one. Every scene of the generations had kids or teens swinging from the lights.
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