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Sims 2 Development insight

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Comments

  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,554 Member
    edited April 4
    Gordy wrote: »

    This is exactly what I meant when I said The Sims lacks identity. Rather than create new, memorable characters exclusive to The Sims in the same vein as Bella Goth, EA/Maxis are just using it as a means of advertising other franchises and brands. Think of a game such as Animal Crossing. For those that play, I know when that title pops in your mind, you think of its popular NPCs: Tom Nook, Able Sisters, K.K. Slider, and so on. They introduced a newer NPC, Isabelle, many years into the franchise’s lifespan, and now she, too, is considered an iconic, memorable NPC. The Sims doesn’t do this. You could argue the Pancakes in TS4 are comparable, but it was an average person like me and you on Reddit who made them a viral meme, causing them to be so prominent. And, mind you, they were actually designed, probably by an intern, in the game to look nothing like they do within the meme.

    The Sims simply churns out pre-mades to check off a box of representation/diversity rather than create interesting backstories for interesting characters. Take a look at the gay couple from The Sims 4: Cats & Dogs (the fact I can say “the gay couple” and people would know exactly who I am talking about is pretty revealing of that too, might I add). Their backstory is literally that 1) They’re gay and 2) They have a cat and can’t decide who should take it around town more. Really? There was nothing more they could add onto series’ first homosexual couple’s backstory? Instead, you look at Paralives. The first male NPC they’ve revealed has a backstory of being raised by his grandma, becoming a rebel, and meeting his male lover at a party. Then, he quit his party lifestyle with the lover to move away and adopted a child before his lover passed away unexpectedly. The fact that he was gay holds no prominence to his backstory — it’s just a component of who he is, mirroring how it would be in real-life. Paralives proves that, despite we’ve seen no gameplay yet, they can at least mold a story better than Maxis, who is only capable of using the depth of a preschooler’s picture book for inspiration of their own character’s stories when they are not inserting a little-known Instagram influencer into the game.

    Some people might shrug this sort of thing off, but things like this matter a lot to the people they actively try to represent, people who appreciate complex/interesting stories, and those who specifically want to play premades. I’d say it’s borderline offensive, too. I know Maxis has YouTubers building houses for them. Do we need external authors creating stories for them too? External developers to develop the game for them? I just think it’s inexcusable for a series that costs this much money in ONE iteration alone.

    And, might I add, Journey to Batuu’s existence should be the biggest indicator that the studio has no spine and zero will to push back to form their own identity.
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 2,506 Member
    Thanks!! @Gordy i didn't even know there was more🤭
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 2,506 Member
    Sad how they were treated by EA😔 that's why you never know what the gurus are going through behind the scenes. They are just trying to make the best of what they are working with.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,141 Member
    Sad how they were treated by EA😔 that's why you never know what the gurus are going through behind the scenes. They are just trying to make the best of what they are working with.
    Yeah why I try to say it EA hindering the franchise instead of the Gurus. I mean there are reasons why SimGuruDuke moved on to start his own studio with some colleagues. EA already killed one Maxis franchise with SimCity. I have told Gurus before how upset I was EA did that and why I joined forums. I mean might happen to Sims anyway one day, but at least I can say that I didn't do anything about it like I hadn't with the parent game SimCity. I feel like Sims 4 being the first iteration not to have a SimCity desktop game developed alongside it is causing an identity crisis for the Sims.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,204 Member
    The identity crisis is they're trying to make it into an RPG instead of a simulation. All the stupid buffs annoy the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me. That's an RPG feature where you get to read about what buffs your character has. In a sim game, we should see things happening and not have to read them. I should be able to look at my sim and see that they're in a mood. I hate when kid sims come home sad from school because they got picked on. Um...hello...is this a simulation that you just made me read a scenario and then I had no freaking input in the outcome!? What the heck is that?!

    Ya know what else...how are they going to make a hospital and not have a mini-sim inside the game to run a hospital. Have they never heard of the tycoon games? Instead we get a click this, do that, click there, do this 7 times, etc. We could have had objectives like run a general practitioner office where you are a doctor or nurse and hire staff who always perform their own roles. Then at a certain point work at a hospital in various roles and work your way up to actually running and managing the hospital. Now that has replay value because there are lots of ways you can accomplish the same task. And there are a lot of ways to fail, too.

    Ok. I went on a mini-rant. Sorry about that. Haha.

    I do agree with you that you never know what's going on behind the scenes and it's not ok to attack the gurus no matter how upset you are about something. But we should definitely let them know that we are upset and why.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,141 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    The identity crisis is they're trying to make it into an RPG instead of a simulation. All the stupid buffs annoy the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me. That's an RPG feature where you get to read about what buffs your character has. In a sim game, we should see things happening and not have to read them. I should be able to look at my sim and see that they're in a mood. I hate when kid sims come home sad from school because they got picked on. Um...hello...is this a simulation that you just made me read a scenario and then I had no freaking input in the outcome!? What the heck is that?!

    Ya know what else...how are they going to make a hospital and not have a mini-sim inside the game to run a hospital. Have they never heard of the tycoon games? Instead we get a click this, do that, click there, do this 7 times, etc. We could have had objectives like run a general practitioner office where you are a doctor or nurse and hire staff who always perform their own roles. Then at a certain point work at a hospital in various roles and work your way up to actually running and managing the hospital. Now that has replay value because there are lots of ways you can accomplish the same task. And there are a lot of ways to fail, too.

    Ok. I went on a mini-rant. Sorry about that. Haha.

    I do agree with you that you never know what's going on behind the scenes and it's not ok to attack the gurus no matter how upset you are about something. But we should definitely let them know that we are upset and why.
    I feel like the game Two Point Hospital even has more of that Sims identity than the Sims 4 does. I think when it comes down to it the game is full of apathy but lacks empathy. There is just not those emotions that other simulation and even RPG games have these days. It feels more like those clicker mobile games to earn money and nothing else so I do agree it does feel like a tycoon game but even with those I mostly took rollercoaster off the rails and let the dinosaurs attack the guests, so at least there was some aspect of failure to them.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,414 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I feel like the game Two Point Hospital even has more of that Sims identity than the Sims 4 does. I think when it comes down to it the game is full of apathy but lacks empathy. There is just not those emotions that other simulation and even RPG games have these days. It feels more like those clicker mobile games to earn money and nothing else so I do agree it does feel like a tycoon game but even with those I mostly took rollercoaster off the rails and let the dinosaurs attack the guests, so at least there was some aspect of failure to them.

    @Scobre Two Point Hospital is exactly how you make a modern game that is a succesor to a previously very succesful game. Two Point Hospital had huge shoes to fill because "Theme hospital" is such an iconic game.
    I feel like they did a great job with it, you can see the passion and hard-work that was put into it.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,141 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I feel like the game Two Point Hospital even has more of that Sims identity than the Sims 4 does. I think when it comes down to it the game is full of apathy but lacks empathy. There is just not those emotions that other simulation and even RPG games have these days. It feels more like those clicker mobile games to earn money and nothing else so I do agree it does feel like a tycoon game but even with those I mostly took rollercoaster off the rails and let the dinosaurs attack the guests, so at least there was some aspect of failure to them.

    @Scobre Two Point Hospital is exactly how you make a modern game that is a succesor to a previously very succesful game. Two Point Hospital had huge shoes to fill because "Theme hospital" is such an iconic game.
    I feel like they did a great job with it, you can see the passion and hard-work that was put into it.
    Yep why I support competition. It is healthy. I mean we did get City Skylines out of SimCity at least.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 2,506 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    The identity crisis is they're trying to make it into an RPG instead of a simulation. All the stupid buffs annoy the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me. That's an RPG feature where you get to read about what buffs your character has. In a sim game, we should see things happening and not have to read them. I should be able to look at my sim and see that they're in a mood. I hate when kid sims come home sad from school because they got picked on. Um...hello...is this a simulation that you just made me read a scenario and then I had no freaking input in the outcome!? What the heck is that?!

    Ya know what else...how are they going to make a hospital and not have a mini-sim inside the game to run a hospital. Have they never heard of the tycoon games? Instead we get a click this, do that, click there, do this 7 times, etc. We could have had objectives like run a general practitioner office where you are a doctor or nurse and hire staff who always perform their own roles. Then at a certain point work at a hospital in various roles and work your way up to actually running and managing the hospital. Now that has replay value because there are lots of ways you can accomplish the same task. And there are a lot of ways to fail, too.

    Ok. I went on a mini-rant. Sorry about that. Haha.

    I do agree with you that you never know what's going on behind the scenes and it's not ok to attack the gurus no matter how upset you are about something. But we should definitely let them know that we are upset and why.

    Your idea with the hospital is❤❤❤🧡
    Amazing. These are actual love hearts by the way. Not bad word coverings😅😅
    I always wanted a hospital that functions similar to how you described.
    I had to download mods just to roleplay something similar.
    Zombies, oh please oh please give us zombies!! :'(
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,204 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    The identity crisis is they're trying to make it into an RPG instead of a simulation. All the stupid buffs annoy the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me. That's an RPG feature where you get to read about what buffs your character has. In a sim game, we should see things happening and not have to read them. I should be able to look at my sim and see that they're in a mood. I hate when kid sims come home sad from school because they got picked on. Um...hello...is this a simulation that you just made me read a scenario and then I had no freaking input in the outcome!? What the heck is that?!

    Ya know what else...how are they going to make a hospital and not have a mini-sim inside the game to run a hospital. Have they never heard of the tycoon games? Instead we get a click this, do that, click there, do this 7 times, etc. We could have had objectives like run a general practitioner office where you are a doctor or nurse and hire staff who always perform their own roles. Then at a certain point work at a hospital in various roles and work your way up to actually running and managing the hospital. Now that has replay value because there are lots of ways you can accomplish the same task. And there are a lot of ways to fail, too.

    Ok. I went on a mini-rant. Sorry about that. Haha.

    I do agree with you that you never know what's going on behind the scenes and it's not ok to attack the gurus no matter how upset you are about something. But we should definitely let them know that we are upset and why.

    Your idea with the hospital is❤❤❤🧡
    Amazing. These are actual love hearts by the way. Not bad word coverings😅😅
    I always wanted a hospital that functions similar to how you described.
    I had to download mods just to roleplay something similar.

    I need your mod list because this is the gameplay I want, too! <3

    I haven't played the professions after the first go because they were repetitive and not fun for me. What really annoyed me was that there was new staff every single day and that my sim had to do literally everything even as a surgeon he still had to change the bed sheets. That's ridiculous. And why can't we have more than one sim at a time working a profession? Have we not been playing this game for 20 years? Do we not know how to multitask now? The way they implemented it was so dumb. I mean...we can't even take our sims to the doctor for crying out loud. This team should be ashamed and embarrassed about that pack, for real. They were not thinking simulation game when they created it.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,141 Member
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    The identity crisis is they're trying to make it into an RPG instead of a simulation. All the stupid buffs annoy the ❤️❤️❤️❤️ out of me. That's an RPG feature where you get to read about what buffs your character has. In a sim game, we should see things happening and not have to read them. I should be able to look at my sim and see that they're in a mood. I hate when kid sims come home sad from school because they got picked on. Um...hello...is this a simulation that you just made me read a scenario and then I had no freaking input in the outcome!? What the heck is that?!

    Ya know what else...how are they going to make a hospital and not have a mini-sim inside the game to run a hospital. Have they never heard of the tycoon games? Instead we get a click this, do that, click there, do this 7 times, etc. We could have had objectives like run a general practitioner office where you are a doctor or nurse and hire staff who always perform their own roles. Then at a certain point work at a hospital in various roles and work your way up to actually running and managing the hospital. Now that has replay value because there are lots of ways you can accomplish the same task. And there are a lot of ways to fail, too.

    Ok. I went on a mini-rant. Sorry about that. Haha.

    I do agree with you that you never know what's going on behind the scenes and it's not ok to attack the gurus no matter how upset you are about something. But we should definitely let them know that we are upset and why.

    Your idea with the hospital is❤❤❤🧡
    Amazing. These are actual love hearts by the way. Not bad word coverings😅😅
    I always wanted a hospital that functions similar to how you described.
    I had to download mods just to roleplay something similar.

    I need your mod list because this is the gameplay I want, too! <3

    I haven't played the professions after the first go because they were repetitive and not fun for me. What really annoyed me was that there was new staff every single day and that my sim had to do literally everything even as a surgeon he still had to change the bed sheets. That's ridiculous. And why can't we have more than one sim at a time working a profession? Have we not been playing this game for 20 years? Do we not know how to multitask now? The way they implemented it was so dumb. I mean...we can't even take our sims to the doctor for crying out loud. This team should be ashamed and embarrassed about that pack, for real. They were not thinking simulation game when they created it.
    Yeah the active careers are super buggy. The work from home jobs I call the professions and they started making them with the Sims 4 City Living pack for the Sims 4. My favorite professions in the Sims 3 were the lifeguard and the firefighter and tattoo artist.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • EA_LeelooEA_Leeloo Posts: 1,866 EA Community Manager
    Hey, FYI: I moved this thread to the Sims Franchise section.
  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,768 Member
    For anyone interested in sims2 development from a dev. Part 1 and part 2.
    I love hearing about the process of game making. And although he didn't mention it, it even gives a little insight on what ts4 development could be like behind the scenes imo.





    Does anyone know if a dev from The Sims 3 will write about its development? I'd really be interested in that much more!

    Also, I don't think this behind the scenes look at TS2 development gives any hint to TS4 development at all. TS2 was very organized and not very buggy and was just very thoughtfully made, whereas TS4 is a whole different story....


    Took a quick snapshot of my active sim with her date riding the roller coaster at the amusement park:
    The look of sheer terror is priceless, lol!

    Screenshot-186.jpg


  • NationalPokedexNationalPokedex Posts: 713 Member
    @ClarionOfJoy Ray Mazza has some blog posts about development of TS3: https://www.raymazza.com/articles/categories/the-sims
  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 1,768 Member
    @ClarionOfJoy Ray Mazza has some blog posts about development of TS3: https://www.raymazza.com/articles/categories/the-sims


    Oh my God, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! <3<3<3


    Took a quick snapshot of my active sim with her date riding the roller coaster at the amusement park:
    The look of sheer terror is priceless, lol!

    Screenshot-186.jpg


  • Chicklet453681Chicklet453681 Posts: 1,120 Member
    Wow! @NationalPokedex TYSM for that link for insight into TS3 development! I so enjoyed reading that, and it was so so interesting to read the ways they came up with traits. I loved it!
  • NationalPokedexNationalPokedex Posts: 713 Member
    You’re welcome to @ClarionOfJoy and @Chicklet453681 ! I only just discovered that blog a few days ago when I learned about Never Forget Games so it was very fresh in my mind.
  • TrowiciaTrowicia Posts: 2,013 Member
    This was an amazing read. Thank you for sharing!!
    // take back to 2018.
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