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LGBTQ+ Premade Couples

Comments

  • NoTalentNoTalent Posts: 340 Member
    aaronrulz wrote: »
    Kimmer wrote: »
    I've always thought that there are few gay males among single premades, at least Diego Lobo, Gunther Munch and Sergio Romeo (closeted one). I paired Gunther with Sergio and Diego found a randomly generated boyfriend in my game.
    I do wish there'd be more premade gay couples. I adore Heckings, although they often seem to flirt with others. Maybe they have an open marriage.

    I think J. Huntington III is a bit of a closet case. Not many straight men wear sweaters draped over their shoulders. haha.

    It's a very preppy look. Many did that at my school.
  • BatmanFanGirlBatmanFanGirl Posts: 1,073 Member
    I wouldn't mind more gay male couples. I can completely understand wanting to see more self representation. That said I usually make my own LGBTQ couples because I don't play premades. I get that's not the point though. :)
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    Tru fax.
  • PixyPixy Posts: 15 Member
    I'd like to see gay male couples in future packs, with or without children, but I doubt the current balance has to do with Maxis having a bias against them. Remember that the Heckings came *first*, and it's likely they have a dog rather than a child because it was the *pets* pack and no more thought was given to it. Getting a lesbian couple in Island Living actually balanced the ratio. The fact that we got two more lesbian couples in Eco Lifestyle is probably more due to the themes of the pack combined with those "crunchy granola Home Depot lesbian" stereotypes than any considerations about lesbian couples being more palatable to the public. It would have been (very) nice to have a "Home Depot" gay male couple challenging stereotypes for once, sure, but I think benefit of the doubt about anti-gay male bias is in order for now.
  • NindigoNindigo Posts: 2,422 Member
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, those of you are able to do so in an articulate and enlightened manner.

    Look, I simply wanted to draw attention to the subject of balance in the representation of LGBTQ+ couples. Whether or not it can be assumed that a Sim (like Diego Lobo, for example) is gay or not is not the point of this discussion. I'm referring to couples who are designed by EAxis to be LGBTQ+ to be representatives.

    I'll break it down really simple. We officially have as an undisputable fact:

    Brant & Brent Hecking (1 dog, no kids): Married gay couple
    Leila Illes & Oliana Ngata (0 pets, 1 kid): Married lesbian couple
    Mary & Blossom Greenburg (0 pets, 1 kid): Married lesbian couple
    Tina & Yasemin Tinker (0 pets, 1 kid): Married lesbian couple

    Single Sims:
    Lia Hauata: female in male frame
    Paka'a Uha: male in female frame
    Morgyn Ember: male in male frame, cross-dresser, unable to impregnate and get others pregnant, can't pee standing
    Darling Walsh: female in female frame, cross-dresser, otherwise a regular female to my knowledge

    Did I forget any?

    Knowing basic math, the balance is off as it currently stands. For people who care about representation and equality, this "needs" to be addressed and balanced out. EAxis "must", in other words, add two new married gay couples in upcoming packs - and I agree with @Lustianicia that they should definitely have kids instead of or in addition to pets. In order to represent gay men parents. In a game like The Sims 4, normal physical restrictions and beaucratic paperwork doesn't exist and therefore don't apply, thus it should pose no problem to make such additions in the name of equality.

    I hope that EAxis will break the apparent habit of favoring lesbian couples in the represention of same-gender couples. I believe I know exactly where this tendency is rooted, but that's another discussion and with good reason not allowed on these forums. We all need to live in the present and enlightened 2020, and view all human beings as exactly that.

    Whatever personal feelings or convictions on the entire subject of not being straight, etc. is completely irrelevant for this discussion. Please, abstain from derailing the topic with that kind of talk. It belongs elsewhere and is not Sims 4 related in and of itself. Thank you.

    @Chazzzy The Sterling Rico couple are lovers, but not officially dating. You can see for yourself by loading their household as played :)


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  • ryttu3kryttu3k Posts: 1,029 Member
    Absolutely want more queer characters of all varieties in game! And yeah, the lack of gay couples with kids is pretty jarring considering all three lesbian couples have them (although I do like that Knox and his Mums are older and that he's explicitly adopted, which is something you don't see much in games).

    And definitely more explicitly trans characters, too. Characters like Darling, Lia, and Paka'a can certainly be interpreted as trans (and I do!), but setting-wise, all of Darling's are congruent with being selected as female (including a feminine dress sense!), and the only custom choices on Lia and Paka'a are a masculine frame and a feminine frame, respectively. Lia has a feminine dress preference, sits down, and can get pregnant, Paka'a has a masculine frame, stands up, and can get others pregnant. At the moment, Morgyn is the only one whose settings suggest they're trans (either a trans man who prefers fem fashion, or nonbinary, the latter of which I go with), and I'd really love to see more, including with families (also neutral pronouns, please Maxis I am begging you).

    And yeah, definitely more queer couples, and more variety with them. It's frustrating having to actively change settings just to see Sims like you.
  • EA_MaiEA_Mai Posts: 1,792 EA Community Manager
    Alright everyone, I've removed several comments from this discussion that were off topic and/or not constructive.

    I'm reopening the thread now - keep things on topic going forward. As a reminder for everyone: use the report button when needed, instead of getting into arguments that will never lead to anything constructive. And remember the forum rules.
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 2,127 Member
    People can make their own to populate the worlds, if they want more. Personally, I delete a majority of the premade sims. Only the ones that fit my gameplay for each file are safe. As is, that is only a few of the iconic characters that have been in the other iterations of the franchise.
  • fallenangel66fallenangel66 Posts: 273 Member
    edited June 25
    I don't really have a problem with a nonequal amount of same-sex couples. Here's why, if I'm in a restaurant, or at the gym, or anywhere else there are not an equal amount of any single demographic, so I don't feel the need to have them displayed equally. Sims for me is not a counting game, I like having the premades around because they add more diversity to my game mostly with traits I don't often use, but I don't feel the need to count off the demographics of each. That being said, I wouldn't mind more male couples, but that's the same as me saying I wouldn't mind more Hispanic couples.

    Edit: Maybe it's because I add my own same-sex couples. I usually add in my own extended family, and adopted families, so it comes out to be a more fair representation, but that's just me maybe.
  • MonaveilMonaveil Posts: 378 Member
    edited June 25
    I'm not sure if Minerva Charm should be on the list by @Nindigo. Wiki only says that "Minerva is one of the few pre-made female Sims in The Sims 4 who possesses one of the masculine voice types." There is no reference to any other Sim that has this feature. It was obviously done for a reason but that reason remains a mystery.

    I also like balance in my game population so I'm always looking at aspirations, traits, age, and gender. Most pre-made Sims are replaced as soon as I start a new save with my own.
  • NindigoNindigo Posts: 2,422 Member
    edited June 25
    Izzy Fabulous has a female voice. But these are just voices. Voices are not really indicative of anything in and of itself. So no, I'm not putting these on the list. Still, it's interesting to note that a balance is to be found here as well.

    And yeah, I get that some of you are like 'create your own', etc. Sure, everyone is free to do so. I don't dispute that, never did. But again, this is beside the point I'm trying to make. I want to draw attention to the message EAxis is sending via the distribution of LGBTQ+ couples. If that is somehow difficult to understand or relate to, then readers are free to leave the thread alone and not make it their business to reply the same as others already did :) I'm not really interested in getting told the same over and over again - even less so if it's beside my point. Which these comments are. I hope to meet some understanding of this.


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  • Bronwin2Bronwin2 Posts: 2,007 Member
    Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought there is no difference? If gender/sex is subjective then how can any Sim be one way or the other?
  • HeyYoDiscoNickHeyYoDiscoNick Posts: 442 Member
    I'm very happy to see this thread. More gay dads! More diversity of all kinds, please.
  • NindigoNindigo Posts: 2,422 Member
    Bronwin2 wrote: »
    Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought there is no difference? If gender/sex is subjective then how can any Sim be one way or the other?

    Again, it's about the message. (How many times, have I said it now? *rolls eyes* ) It is not about how you actually play the game.


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  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,755 Member
    I hope we'll keep seeing more variety in families added as premades in upcoming packs: gay couples, single parents, multi-generation families, etc.
    Though I'm sure we won't get families with both pets and children in packs that aren't C&D. Or any possible other packs that might include other pets.

    For me, including *any* LGBT Sims and families is the message and it's a good one. Is it uneven right now? Yeah. That doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. And even if it does, I don't believe keeping count is helpful.

    (also hey, if we could set attraction for individual Sims, that would be great)
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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 18,494 Member
    Guys in general need more attention even in CAS. I would love more attention for older and younger male Sims too for gameplay and CAS. I found out researching into MAC more they are one of the first LGBTQIA+ friendly makeup brands for guys, so makes sense with the timing when it was released. There are quite a lot of male Simmers that stream on Twitch, so premades for them I think would help. I would really like more elder premades, because that age group is really rare for premades.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
  • axim_galaxim_gal Posts: 19 Member
    edited July 2
    I don't know, I'm a straight female and I play gay male/female families all the time. I think that's the one of the things EA got right, I mean by giving us the ability to so easily make the sims we want to play, was absolutely brilliant. CAS is Everything. But, I do understand that each person wants to be represented, it's only fair, but I do think they've made major moves towards making the game more enjoyable for all.
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,090 Member
    I don't really have a problem with a nonequal amount of same-sex couples. Here's why, if I'm in a restaurant, or at the gym, or anywhere else there are not an equal amount of any single demographic, so I don't feel the need to have them displayed equally. Sims for me is not a counting game, I like having the premades around because they add more diversity to my game mostly with traits I don't often use, but I don't feel the need to count off the demographics of each. That being said, I wouldn't mind more male couples, but that's the same as me saying I wouldn't mind more Hispanic couples.

    Edit: Maybe it's because I add my own same-sex couples. I usually add in my own extended family, and adopted families, so it comes out to be a more fair representation, but that's just me maybe.

    You're clearly not someone who has felt underrepresented in the media... so of course you "don't have a problem" with it. Meanwhile, you missed the actual point entirely.
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,090 Member
    edited July 3
    I hope we'll keep seeing more variety in families added as premades in upcoming packs: gay couples, single parents, multi-generation families, etc.
    Though I'm sure we won't get families with both pets and children in packs that aren't C&D. Or any possible other packs that might include other pets.

    For me, including *any* LGBT Sims and families is the message and it's a good one. Is it uneven right now? Yeah. That doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. And even if it does, I don't believe keeping count is helpful.

    (also hey, if we could set attraction for individual Sims, that would be great)

    "For me, including *any* LGBT Sims and families is the message and it's a good one."

    Not when there's a history of bias in the media when it comes to lesbian representation VS gay male representation. If lesbians and gay men were equally discriminated against, attacked, viewed as "disgusting", etc, then I *might* agree with your point... but that's not how it is. There's generally a bias in society that deems lesbians and female/female relationships as "more acceptable" than gay men and male/male couples... so when a company uses that bias itself and takes the safest route possible by representing a lesbian or female/female relationship and then go around claiming how "progressive" they are for doing so, it becomes extremely problematic. EA and Maxis literally profit off the LGBT community every chance they get... and it's often at the expense of gay men and even transgender women (like most other companies as well).

    Companies do this A LOT... they'll throw in a lesbian character or couple (the most accepted members of the LGBT community) and then go around bragging about how "progressive" they are, while leaving out the more vulnerable and oppressed members of the community. That's not LGBT representation. That's lesbian representation. Again, lesbians generally aren't viewed the same way as gay men are in society.

    The Sims has shown a very clear bias. It's not even debatable. We've had ONE gay male couple in the entire franchise... ONE! And they don't even have kids... they're a stereotypical "cute" gay couple with a dog as their "fur baby"... so, not only are they giving out the message that lesbians are seen as more acceptable, but they're also perpetrating a stereotype by doing this. If Brant and Brent had a kid AND a dog, it wouldn't be bad... but this was clearly meant to be a negative thing. Especially when you have several lesbian couples (all with children) that have been represented in the series.

    Two female Sims were shown kissing when The Sims was first revealed back in the 1990's. In Sims 3, a lesbian couple (with a child) was represented in the 'Roaring Heights' DLC. In Sims 4, we have more lesbian couples... and each have a child. In Sims 4, we have ONE gay male couple throughout the entire franchise and they have a dog. Even during pride month a couple years ago, The Sims posted a picture on their social media accounts that showed a "rainbow" of LGBT Sims... and guess what? The lesbian couple was shown with a child, while the gay male couple wasn't... there was even a MALE/FEMALE couple in the pic that was shown holding a baby! What is that about!?

    08cwPNG.jpg

    I can't remember the exact year this was shown, but it was an official render by The Sims team... and yeah, they continue to show a very clear and explicit bias against gay men... especially when a male/female couple was shown in an LGBT image and even they have a baby, while the gay male couple doesn't.

    This is either a really HUGE coincidence that EA and Maxis have simply overlooked (over and over and over and over again)... or they're showing an obviously bigoted bias. I highly doubt it's a coincidence...
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 2,127 Member
    edited July 3
    The premades are just background esthetic, like set dressing for a sitcom. It is up to the players to create what we want represented. I do that for each save and each one is different. I delete who doesn't fit certain saves and I change others. My own experiences are not really represented in-game unless I create them.
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,090 Member
    edited July 3
    To those of you who "don't understand" and think it's considered "whining" simply for pointing out the lack of representation for gay male Sims, it's about more than just the representation. It's about the subtle message EA is sending by creating several pre-made lesbian couples (again, all with children), while only have ONE gay male couple who only have a dog. That, along with all the other things (such as a lesbian couple being featured in the new logo and a gay male couple being the ONLY one without a child in the pride month image I showed prior), is a very concerning negative message.

    EA has certainly proven themselves to be biased against gay men. They don't believe gay males are "acceptable enough" to be represented in the game... and they definitely don't seem to think gay men should be raising children either (since absolutely NONE of the very few representations for gay male Sims have had children).

    The pride month image was beyond offensive when I first saw it (and yes, I made a big deal about it at the time too). The fact that the image featured a lesbian couple and a straight couple (for whatever reason) with children, while purposely making the ONLY gay male couple in the image without children, was deeply concerning... and still is. Especially when they won't even add more than one canon gay male couple in the game... and the only one we actually have doesn't have a child (while ALL lesbian couples do).

    It's a form of homophobia and anti-gay male bias... no matter how you try spinning it. There's literally no reason EA can't simply add a pre-made gay male couple in the game with children. There's NO excuse for this... because they don't seem to have a problem with adding several lesbian and straight couples with kids... why can't we even have just ONE gay male couple with a child!? EA absolutely has explaining to do!

    Also, again, this is a COMMON TREND in the media (especially video games). Lesbians are almost always the "safe" route companies take when it comes to showing LGBT representation... and it's because society generally has an easier time accepting the idea of two women being together VS two men. So yeah... you can't really blame someone like myself for feeling this way.
  • elanorbretonelanorbreton Posts: 11,652 Member
    Personally, I don't see any message coming from EA through the game.

    How many people count up the statistics for the type of sims added to the game? I would think that most people just open up the game and play it however they want to.

  • pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,623 Member
    I still don’t understand why you just can’t represent lesbian/gays by making them in your own game. Why you think EA needs to provide the premade couples. Yes I know they need to be treated equal and they need not to be looked down on. But this is also a game and you are free to create whoever you want without restrictions. You can be whoever you want in the game. So to ask EA to provide more premade gay/lesbian couples in the game I would think you are restricting how the game is meant to be played. It’s only my opinion so you can take it with a grain of salt and agree or not.
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  • Seera1024Seera1024 Posts: 3,448 Member
    edited July 3
    Flexono1 wrote: »
    To those of you who "don't understand" and think it's considered "whining".

    Well it is whining. If you need your entire existence to be validated by a video game that is a you problem, and tbh getting this worked up over pixels in a game suggests you have some serious deep seated issues. The world doesn't owe you anything, you are not entitled to anything from EA.

    There is literally nothing stopping you from creating the sims and the stories you want. Rather than waste time crying on the forum, load up the game, open the gallery, download some gay couples, add a few kids, place them into the world.....

    Ta-da problem solved

    It would be one thing if this wasn't a life simulator. But this is. Unless you can find a study that says that gay couples are significantly less likely to exist than lesbian couples or that gays are less likely to raise a family than lesbians, then EA should at least attempt to be realistic in their addition of LGBTQ Sims and couples.

    It would also be one thing if EA started out all premades as single with no kids and unset gender preferences and let the game randomize at the start of each save with %'s that were at least somewhat realistic or adjusted by the player on a save by save basis. Like a player could choose to play for a story a neighborhood where everyone is straight except the couple they created. Or a player could turn the situation on its head and say LGBTQ was the norm and being straight is the outlier. Or be realistic. Or have every type have equal chances.

    But it's not. EA decided to add couples and premades with preset gender preferences. They should attempt to maintain some equality in the gender preferences they add keeping to at least a semi-realistic amount. And be equal in who they give and don't give kids and pets to.

    And this is as a player who tends towards straight couples when there's nothing that randomizes gender preference in game. And I've only ever made one Sim out of CAS with the intention of them being anything but straight. So this issue doesn't directly cause me any problems or discomfort.

    Your suggestion is a solution to the current situation, no one is denying that. The OP and others want EA to fix the situation so they don't have to go download or make couples themselves to fix the imbalance.
  • bellagoth_bellagoth_ Posts: 577 Member
    edited July 3
    come on y'all don't be hard on op, (i meant the other op, forgot the thread got closed lmao)
    while i too dislike people wanting to be represented 24/7 (especially on the sims where you can make literally anyone), he kinda has a point

    ea goes all about how progressive and inclusive they are, they shove down everyone's throat how lgbt friendly they are, yet the only sims they keep including are lesbians
    if i was a gay man it probably would kinda annoy me as well to be left out because well...media does indeed seem to cater more the lesbians for the whole women empowerment or something like that (not my opinion, i'm just basing on what i read/see around google)

    also, the sims has a majority female player base (again, i don't say this, google does) so of course ea will try to fit their agenda to represent the majority of its players, it's nothing personal, just ea doing business pretending they care just to get media approval and peoples money

    ts4 is very biased towards the female young adult and it shows not only on premades, but in content as well

    to be fair and letting the premades apart, ea just wants to cater the young adult in general, and the romance system is so bad that no matter how gay or straight is a sim, if they get in a flirty mood they gonna flirt even with the talking toilet
    i'm telling y'all. bella goth's disappearance was just her running away from this franchise before it became what it is rn, a JOKE
  • RouenpucelleRouenpucelle Posts: 1,738 Member
    Representation is extremely important. I find it deeply concerning that no male couple with children has been featured.

    In general, The Sims is aimed at females, so it doesn’t surprise me that there are more female couples. To me, the issue is the makeup of the couples. A male couple with children has no reason to be absent.

    Here is a quote that may help explain the issue for those who don’t understand:
    “Representation creates relatable and powerful role models and sources of inspiration. What many seem to take for granted is the power of having a role model that you can look up to and relate to. Having a black female role model was the reason the talented Lupita Nyong’o felt she could make it in acting. This point is also made abundantly clear in an emotional story around a queer girl’s struggle in coming out. You can read the full story here, but the short of it is, a character coming out as gay in Supergirl helped a queer girl from committing suicide whilst struggling to deal with her own coming out.” (From criticalhit.net)

    Of course people can create whatever characters they want, and other people can delete whatever characters they want. But the characters the game is shipped with matter. You can bet EA spends a lot of time figuring out what premades will sell the game. It’s a statement that they decided that male couples with children would not sell.
    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
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