This discussion is very iteresting to me. I play many social games, amongst them MMORPGs. Within that sphere, the open world concept is discussed heavily too. One of the genre classics, World of Warcraft, is an open world game. However, most of its successful competitors, such as Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV, have instanced zones. And plenty of them.
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
The reason I use Sims 3 as an example often is because it is the only example of a fully open world sims game we have at the moment. It's not "nonsense" if that is the only example of the only sims game that has this feature. It shows me how the company worked with this feature.
I don't want to see the same mistakes again if another 100% no-loading-screens-whatsoever-Open World is being considered again.
Also, other open world games like Skyrim and areas of Dragon Age Inquisition still have really brief loading screens for transitions from inside to outside or vice versa (or other games have cutscenes for rendering) or loading between certain areas, but they disguised the loading, and they worked much better for me than sims 3 did, so that is why I don't mind seeing loading screens for certain transitions.
These above games should be looked at as good/great examples for the devs to consider for the newer games, but I don't think the devs are considering other modern games due to how Sims 4 came out.....
I'll have to look at GTA 5 or some much more recent modern open world game, but so they not have loading screens at all and have no scripted cutscene-like events, slow opening doors, or background loading (or is it rendering?) between different blocks of areas?
I would like to see more evidence of another open world similar to Sims 3 with no loading screens for inside to outside and having the same amount of interactions and details.
I am very iffy about open world that is like what many people want from Sims 3 because many games I have played do have multiple brief loading screens from what I have seen, even the open world ones.
Maybe the devs can get or create a very, very good engine with the brand new tech and engine stuff out there, hopefully. But at the moment, I am still skeptical that these particular devs can do this.
Other companies I can believe in making this work, but not this one with its history (in terms of buggy sims games in particular).
ETA: What I am saying is, for me, personally, the company has not proven it has a good record with the tech, since I felt both Sims 4 and 3 were pretty buggy, and with the whole toddler debacle and lame Sims 4 EPs, issues with missing details and missing content, etc.
I want to see the company improve Sims 4 before I ever move onto (if I ever) Sims 5. I need evidence before I can fully trust these devs to do a new sims game again.
I need to see great gameplay and details before the ambitious stuff again. I need to see details and content back. I don't want missing content and details for the next iteration because resources were used for something else like the open world.
I'm still having a wait and see mentality with this company. If they can make great future packs and work on tweaking their tech stuff, then I will start to believe in the company again enough to trust them with a new sims game.
I want to see Sims 4 redeemed or somewhat fixed with lots of good gameplay and some tweaks before I can trust them again with a fresh new Sims game, especially if said new game will have a core feature that has turned me off in the past...
At the moment, they're on shaky grounds with me, and open world is on thin ice for me.
Basically, I would accept Open World if it didn't sacrifice details and depth of gameplay Ioved from Sims 2 (plus Sims 4 toddlers), the depth of OFB business and Hobbies from sims 2, deep AI and better traits system and aspirations systems like Sims 2, better restaurants, busy lots (for me, personally--I know that other simmers had busy lots in Sims 3, but I didn't), options for my playable sims like not allowing Story Progression for certain households (like the "caste" system from one of the NRAAS mods). This, combined with all of the stuff from Sims 3, would definitely win me over to a future Sims game.
Sims 3 lost some bits of gameplay and detailed stuff from Sims 2 and 1 for me, and it's the only open world sims game, so that is why I am skeptical that Open World can be fun for me without sacrificing those details.
If Sims 4 with small lots and loading screens galore is too much to handle for the company, how can I believe these same devs can handle a complex open world in the next game?
I want gameplay and details. I can deal with closed or semi-open worlds, but I can't deal without gameplay or fleshed out sims for long.
This discussion is very iteresting to me. I play many social games, amongst them MMORPGs. Within that sphere, the open world concept is discussed heavily too. One of the genre classics, World of Warcraft, is an open world game. However, most of its successful competitors, such as Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV, have instanced zones. And plenty of them.
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
Sims 3 worlds - some of them - had routing issues. A mod made a change. Which means it's possible to program the game in a way where issues are 'cleaned up'. EA decided to not do that, but it was possible. Travel time = gameplay for many players (like me). Most of the open world was 'barren' (and beautiful), which resembles reality, even when you live in a densely populated country as I do. And when you don't like barren, you can throw in lot frames and add your own landscape to the world if you want to (or houses). And 'the most important' is highly subjective of course, I for instance don't care to see my sim do groceries or eat in a restaurant. But even if I did, turning those venues into rabbitholes was a choice. It wasn't a necessitiy, because other venues were open. Sims 3 even has one of the most advanced open venues in the franchise: tombs.
I've been accused of constantly defending Sims 3 as if that's a bad thing. It's alright to praise Sims 2 and it's alright to defend Sims 4, but apparently people who like Sims 3 and its features are supposed to behave like sitting ducks. Reading all kind of opinions they don't recognize or disagree with and nod nonetheless for the sake of.... I don't know. I'll fight for the features that are essential for me to the last gasp. I really dislike when people 'explaine' features in a game they clearly don't appreciate or get, as if they're trying to put some common sense into people. When it's all nothing more than opinion. We simply have different playing styles and different priorities in the game.
This discussion is very iteresting to me. I play many social games, amongst them MMORPGs. Within that sphere, the open world concept is discussed heavily too. One of the genre classics, World of Warcraft, is an open world game. However, most of its successful competitors, such as Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV, have instanced zones. And plenty of them.
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
The open world itself worked fine, it was the routing issues in EA worlds that they didn't fix. But with World Editor that is easily fixed, and has been done by many players. Travel time is part of the immersion - which I don't understand your saying that the time detracted from gameplay? That is part of gameplay. Having loading screens and not even getting into a vehicle but just teleporting detracts from gameplay. And rabbitholes have always been a part of the Sims series since Sims 1. Where do your sims go to when the go to work or school? It's a rabbithole, it's just not a physical building that can be seen. The difference is that with Sims 3 there are buildings they vanish into.
They reduced the world but they really haven't focused on the over all development of the sims themselves. These are the most generic sims I've played since Sims 1. No matter the traits you give them they are all the same. Angry and mean sims are still nice to everyone. Sims who dislike children make excellent parents and interact with neighborhood children all the time. Loner sims get sad and depressed because they haven't interacted with other sims.
Sims emotions are all over the place, and they flip flop back and forth. One minute they are happy, then tense, then flirty, then back to happy. After a few seconds the "energetic" will get tossed in there. That takes away from game play. And this is just to name a few things on using the closed word is better argument.
The Sims 4 needs a lot of work, and people haven't forgotten about the draw back in Sims 3 or even Sims 2 for that matter. But their gameplay over all wasn't so glaringly lacking like it is in Sims 4. And open world is just one if the issues.
yes Sims 4 was released as a buggy mess, as much if not more than S3, the difference is Sims 3 was ambitious Sims 4 almost seems improvised and slightly ad hock. The retail system of GTW was shocking (not even sure if it;s fixed yet, which I assume they might have only because they were releasing the dine out pack). I understand that a future open world might be scary for someone on an old system and they may be left out but thats going to happen eventually anyway and in the meantime it holds back the Sims full potential.
Well, who knows what the future may hold? For all we know, the future may be multiplatform consoles ports or mobile phone apps or tablet apps or that weird VR thing, so...yeah.
It may not be the, er, "future" some simmers be wanting, lol.
I think it would be cool to one day have a console port. I am used to playing multiplatform games, I guess. If my PC can't handle a game, that's what I have consoles for, as a last resort for some AAA games.
Or just give me a good sims spinoff again. Like Urbz or Castaway, but more advanced.
ETA: I don't know. It feels like Sims 4 is on a tighter budget or has less resources this time around...? I wonder if Sims 5 would have the budget, the expertise, and the resources to do another ambitious sims game in the first place? Are they going to use Sims 4 profits for Sims 5, or use Sims 4 profits for another action game?
I absolutely loved the open world and I really do miss it in Sims 4. It seems to have moved from one extreme to the other - Sims 3 - a completely open world and Sims 4 - a completely closed world. I don't like extremes. A semi open world would have been far more acceptable in Sims 4 after moving away from a completely open world, perhaps each neighbourhood being open rather than all the loading screens to visit a next door neighbour.
This discussion is very iteresting to me. I play many social games, amongst them MMORPGs. Within that sphere, the open world concept is discussed heavily too. One of the genre classics, World of Warcraft, is an open world game. However, most of its successful competitors, such as Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV, have instanced zones. And plenty of them.
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
In addition to what I said before, concerning the bold part: I just asked my teen son how he would feel if next editions of GTA and Skyrim (two games he loves playing) would lose their open world concept and instead would be devided in sections, with some benefits attached of course. He looked at me as if I'd just asked him to eat puke and that no way he would want that. "But I read that this apparently is the new development for games like that", I said. According to him that's not the case though? And he's clearly happy about it.
@JoAnne65 GTA is a very different type of game though, and one that wouldn't make sense without its open world. But the open world is far more limited than the one in TS3 was and the story, especially in GTA V, is quite linear. None of that exists in TS. TS worked fine without open world before as well, it's just something people have enjoyed about 3 (some of them anyway). But in GTA there's no constant simulating of people having lives, kids, jobs, etc. In that sense it's far less intense and easier to make because the only way to see this world progress is to directly interact with it (and even that only very minimally impacts it, you just move from mission to mission and get to know more mission points / people), it doesn't progress on its own like TS3's open world did (which is what caused a lot of its routing problems as well).
I love open world and I feel spoiled for having had it and played it; would I want the routing issues of that came with the Sims 3 open worlds; absolutely not. I understand mentioning Sims 3 when discussing an open world because it's the only Sims game to have had one; however, I get a bit confused when people say they don't want an open world because of the bugs/lag/routing issues that were present in Sims 3. Trust me, I don't think anyone is asking for an open world that was coded like Sims 3 was.
Another thing that makes me scratch my head is if modders/Simmers could fix the issues that open world presented, why couldn't or wouldn't EA? I fail to understand the mentality of not fixing features that they put in the game or not trying to make them better for future iterations.
I love open world and I feel spoiled for having had it and played it; would I want the routing issues of that came with the Sims 3 open worlds; absolutely not. I understand mentioning Sims 3 when discussing an open world because it's the only Sims game to have had one; however, I get a bit confused when people say they don't want an open world because of the bugs/lag/routing issues that were present in Sims 3. Trust me, I don't think anyone is asking for an open world that was coded like Sims 3 was.
Another thing that makes me scratch my head is if modders/Simmers could fix the issues that open world presented, why couldn't or wouldn't EA? I fail to understand the mentality of not fixing features that they put in the game or not trying to make them better for future iterations.
Oh I agree. I'm absolutely not against an open world in TS. I think they could improve it and bring it back, but I think to satisfy everyone it'd have to be constructed differently (like you said). For one, I like that I'm not stuck in one world with TS4, so what I'd like is open neighborhoods (or very well functioning open worlds) without losing that easy access to the other worlds in the game. That's definitely a plus for me. I hope they'll consider bringing it back, but tbh, I have no idea how hard it is to do on the dev side. I mean, yes, modders can go in and fix broken parts, but when you design EPs, does it make making them much more difficult? Does it lengthen the production process because you need to do a lot more testing and bug fixing? I have really no idea, but I guess it's not just the bugs in the final game that were an issue.
Open world is dead in the water in this game. Hopefully they will stick with a PC game next time with an open world and not some complicated and then abandoned online/tablet/pc hybrid mess that absolutely ruined what S4 could have been
@JoAnne65 GTA is a very different type of game though, and one that wouldn't make sense without its open world. But the open world is far more limited than the one in TS3 was and the story, especially in GTA V, is quite linear. None of that exists in TS. TS worked fine without open world before as well, it's just something people have enjoyed about 3 (some of them anyway). But in GTA there's no constant simulating of people having lives, kids, jobs, etc. In that sense it's far less intense and easier to make because the only way to see this world progress is to directly interact with it (and even that only very minimally impacts it, you just move from mission to mission and get to know more mission points / people), it doesn't progress on its own like TS3's open world did (which is what caused a lot of its routing problems as well).
Yes, that's true. I'm not comparing them to Sims (I don't play those games myself by the way), I was merely curious about what was said, more recent games turning away from the 'older', open world concepts.
@JoAnne65 GTA is a very different type of game though, and one that wouldn't make sense without its open world. But the open world is far more limited than the one in TS3 was and the story, especially in GTA V, is quite linear. None of that exists in TS. TS worked fine without open world before as well, it's just something people have enjoyed about 3 (some of them anyway). But in GTA there's no constant simulating of people having lives, kids, jobs, etc. In that sense it's far less intense and easier to make because the only way to see this world progress is to directly interact with it (and even that only very minimally impacts it, you just move from mission to mission and get to know more mission points / people), it doesn't progress on its own like TS3's open world did (which is what caused a lot of its routing problems as well).
Though how awesome it would be If Sims were like gta v, minus the whole violiance and mature stuff (so the T rating would stay). There would be so much activies and more alive sims, and it would still be a balanced game if they colab.
I would have a geekgasm if the a Sims game came out with a GTA5 like open world, it would be sensory overload. There is a game currently in development that sounds very similar...
The problem with open world IMHO is that where it works is in closed games like MMO, but not in games that have high levels of CC.
And with Sims 3 that doesn't just mean downloads but also just changing the color of an item.
When you change an items color you force the computer to load a new template for that item adding to its workload.
Where open world works is when you either have set content or large banks of servers that a home computer just can't match.
Sims 3 biggest problem was it had to much content for the average computer to run without lag.
Now don't get me wrong I loved the Sims 3 but I have more fun on Sim 4 were I do to not having to wait 5-15 mins for the game come out of a lag spike.
To me the idea that you need to see a sims get into a car and drive for (depending on the world size) 3+ Mins to get to work/school/etc or I will lose my immersion is a bit much.
I don't find the load screens as a big deal, and if this is the trade-off for less ot no lag them I'm fine with it.
This discussion is very iteresting to me. I play many social games, amongst them MMORPGs. Within that sphere, the open world concept is discussed heavily too. One of the genre classics, World of Warcraft, is an open world game. However, most of its successful competitors, such as Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy XIV, have instanced zones. And plenty of them.
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
In addition to what I said before, concerning the bold part: I just asked my teen son how he would feel if next editions of GTA and Skyrim (two games he loves playing) would lose their open world concept and instead would be devided in sections, with some benefits attached of course. He looked at me as if I'd just asked him to eat puke and that no way he would want that. "But I read that this apparently is the new development for games like that", I said. According to him that's not the case though? And he's clearly happy about it.
Man if GTA lost it's open world I would be so sad. It would literally hurt. I mean, HURT. lol And Skyrim. Could you imagine Fallout being put back behind load screens, no more open world. It would be criminal!
Whoa!!! I would love that (as long as it is optimized)!
I also wouldn't mind a Skyrim method, if it comes down to lower-level tech, where the outside areas are open world, and there are really brief (well, longer in PS3 version) loading screens to go into and out of the buildings.
If it was programmed well like those games with worlds that don't have bad routing, I would be for open world.
Sadly, I just don't have that level of confidence in this particular company at the moment. If they can't even handle (or even have the resources and proper time for) the small/tiny "worlds", lol...?
I would love if somehow they could add open world in an ep. So people with lower spec computers and laptops could just not get that ep. I just want more control on my sims. When one is at home and the other traveled somewhere else. Then they arrive home like nothing ever happened.
The problem with open world IMHO is that where it works is in closed games like MMO, but not in games that have high levels of CC.
And with Sims 3 that doesn't just mean downloads but also just changing the color of an item.
When you change an items color you force the computer to load a new template for that item adding to its workload.
Where open world works is when you either have set content or large banks of servers that a home computer just can't match.
Sims 3 biggest problem was it had to much content for the average computer to run without lag.
Now don't get me wrong I loved the Sims 3 but I have more fun on Sim 4 were I do to not having to wait 5-15 mins for the game come out of a lag spike.
To me the idea that you need to see a sims get into a car and drive for (depending on the world size) 3+ Mins to get to work/school/etc or I will lose my immersion is a bit much.
I don't find the load screens as a big deal, and if this is the trade-off for less ot no lag them I'm fine with it.
As soon as your sim steps into that car they're at work. As soon as your kid steps into that bus they're at school. Works exactly the same way as in Sims 2 and 4 where they are at work as soon as they vanish.
Also: the game doesn't care whether it has to load a premade surface or a custom made surface (if you're referring to CASt). And as for CC, that also slows down a none open world game. Don't quite understand what you mean by 'the idea that you need to see a sim get into a car (...) or I will lose my immersion is a bit much'? I don't understand that sentence
I would love if somehow they could add open world in an ep. So people with lower spec computers and laptops could just not get that ep. I just want more control on my sims. When one is at home and the other traveled somewhere else. Then they arrive home like nothing ever happened.
Windenburg is much more open than Oasis Springs and Willow Creek by the way. What's that like for San Myshuno?
Comments
Those specific titles might not really resonate on this forum, but it strikes me as interesting as it's the more recent games that are turning away from the older, open world concepts. For a long while, developers were striving to make their worlds more open. Why the trend towards more instanced content? Generally, for the sake of systems that wouldn't function well in an open world.
And The Sims? Well, The Sims 3's open world didn't exactly function 'well'. It didn't run smoothly, travel time detracted from gameplay, most of the open world was barren and the majority of the most important buildings were rabbitholes. Places that had been totally open in TS2 and offered related gameplay opportunities were taken away and their loss was keenly felt.
On the whole, many people were negative about TS3 until Generations, and that expansion--like the recent TS4 toddler patch--had a fair number of people crying out that it was just 'stuff that should have been in the base game'. TS3 didn't get proper retail opportunities until Midnight Hollow brought the cash register and that was towards the end of it's lifecycle and in the store. Do people forget these criticisms in light of those now levelled agaist TS4?
Reducing the open world to concentrate on gameplay opportunities and sim behaviour was, in my opinion, a good decision. I'm not sure if the subsequent results were as good as they could have been (I do miss story progression and numerous other features), but I genuinely think that the open world was more trouble than it was worth and took away from TS2 concepts that could have been much better served without it.
I don't want to see the same mistakes again if another 100% no-loading-screens-whatsoever-Open World is being considered again.
Also, other open world games like Skyrim and areas of Dragon Age Inquisition still have really brief loading screens for transitions from inside to outside or vice versa (or other games have cutscenes for rendering) or loading between certain areas, but they disguised the loading, and they worked much better for me than sims 3 did, so that is why I don't mind seeing loading screens for certain transitions.
These above games should be looked at as good/great examples for the devs to consider for the newer games, but I don't think the devs are considering other modern games due to how Sims 4 came out.....
I'll have to look at GTA 5 or some much more recent modern open world game, but so they not have loading screens at all and have no scripted cutscene-like events, slow opening doors, or background loading (or is it rendering?) between different blocks of areas?
I would like to see more evidence of another open world similar to Sims 3 with no loading screens for inside to outside and having the same amount of interactions and details.
I am very iffy about open world that is like what many people want from Sims 3 because many games I have played do have multiple brief loading screens from what I have seen, even the open world ones.
Maybe the devs can get or create a very, very good engine with the brand new tech and engine stuff out there, hopefully. But at the moment, I am still skeptical that these particular devs can do this.
Other companies I can believe in making this work, but not this one with its history (in terms of buggy sims games in particular).
ETA: What I am saying is, for me, personally, the company has not proven it has a good record with the tech, since I felt both Sims 4 and 3 were pretty buggy, and with the whole toddler debacle and lame Sims 4 EPs, issues with missing details and missing content, etc.
I want to see the company improve Sims 4 before I ever move onto (if I ever) Sims 5. I need evidence before I can fully trust these devs to do a new sims game again.
I need to see great gameplay and details before the ambitious stuff again. I need to see details and content back. I don't want missing content and details for the next iteration because resources were used for something else like the open world.
I'm still having a wait and see mentality with this company. If they can make great future packs and work on tweaking their tech stuff, then I will start to believe in the company again enough to trust them with a new sims game.
I want to see Sims 4 redeemed or somewhat fixed with lots of good gameplay and some tweaks before I can trust them again with a fresh new Sims game, especially if said new game will have a core feature that has turned me off in the past...
At the moment, they're on shaky grounds with me, and open world is on thin ice for me.
(She/her)
Sims 3 lost some bits of gameplay and detailed stuff from Sims 2 and 1 for me, and it's the only open world sims game, so that is why I am skeptical that Open World can be fun for me without sacrificing those details.
If Sims 4 with small lots and loading screens galore is too much to handle for the company, how can I believe these same devs can handle a complex open world in the next game?
I want gameplay and details. I can deal with closed or semi-open worlds, but I can't deal without gameplay or fleshed out sims for long.
(She/her)
I've been accused of constantly defending Sims 3 as if that's a bad thing. It's alright to praise Sims 2 and it's alright to defend Sims 4, but apparently people who like Sims 3 and its features are supposed to behave like sitting ducks. Reading all kind of opinions they don't recognize or disagree with and nod nonetheless for the sake of.... I don't know. I'll fight for the features that are essential for me to the last gasp. I really dislike when people 'explaine' features in a game they clearly don't appreciate or get, as if they're trying to put some common sense into people. When it's all nothing more than opinion. We simply have different playing styles and different priorities in the game.
The open world itself worked fine, it was the routing issues in EA worlds that they didn't fix. But with World Editor that is easily fixed, and has been done by many players. Travel time is part of the immersion - which I don't understand your saying that the time detracted from gameplay? That is part of gameplay. Having loading screens and not even getting into a vehicle but just teleporting detracts from gameplay. And rabbitholes have always been a part of the Sims series since Sims 1. Where do your sims go to when the go to work or school? It's a rabbithole, it's just not a physical building that can be seen. The difference is that with Sims 3 there are buildings they vanish into.
They reduced the world but they really haven't focused on the over all development of the sims themselves. These are the most generic sims I've played since Sims 1. No matter the traits you give them they are all the same. Angry and mean sims are still nice to everyone. Sims who dislike children make excellent parents and interact with neighborhood children all the time. Loner sims get sad and depressed because they haven't interacted with other sims.
Sims emotions are all over the place, and they flip flop back and forth. One minute they are happy, then tense, then flirty, then back to happy. After a few seconds the "energetic" will get tossed in there. That takes away from game play. And this is just to name a few things on using the closed word is better argument.
The Sims 4 needs a lot of work, and people haven't forgotten about the draw back in Sims 3 or even Sims 2 for that matter. But their gameplay over all wasn't so glaringly lacking like it is in Sims 4. And open world is just one if the issues.
It may not be the, er, "future" some simmers be wanting, lol.
I think it would be cool to one day have a console port. I am used to playing multiplatform games, I guess. If my PC can't handle a game, that's what I have consoles for, as a last resort for some AAA games.
Or just give me a good sims spinoff again. Like Urbz or Castaway, but more advanced.
ETA: I don't know. It feels like Sims 4 is on a tighter budget or has less resources this time around...? I wonder if Sims 5 would have the budget, the expertise, and the resources to do another ambitious sims game in the first place? Are they going to use Sims 4 profits for Sims 5, or use Sims 4 profits for another action game?
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Another thing that makes me scratch my head is if modders/Simmers could fix the issues that open world presented, why couldn't or wouldn't EA? I fail to understand the mentality of not fixing features that they put in the game or not trying to make them better for future iterations.
Oh I agree. I'm absolutely not against an open world in TS. I think they could improve it and bring it back, but I think to satisfy everyone it'd have to be constructed differently (like you said). For one, I like that I'm not stuck in one world with TS4, so what I'd like is open neighborhoods (or very well functioning open worlds) without losing that easy access to the other worlds in the game. That's definitely a plus for me. I hope they'll consider bringing it back, but tbh, I have no idea how hard it is to do on the dev side. I mean, yes, modders can go in and fix broken parts, but when you design EPs, does it make making them much more difficult? Does it lengthen the production process because you need to do a lot more testing and bug fixing? I have really no idea, but I guess it's not just the bugs in the final game that were an issue.
And I fully agree with @aricarai
Though how awesome it would be If Sims were like gta v, minus the whole violiance and mature stuff (so the T rating would stay). There would be so much activies and more alive sims, and it would still be a balanced game if they colab.
And with Sims 3 that doesn't just mean downloads but also just changing the color of an item.
When you change an items color you force the computer to load a new template for that item adding to its workload.
Where open world works is when you either have set content or large banks of servers that a home computer just can't match.
Sims 3 biggest problem was it had to much content for the average computer to run without lag.
Now don't get me wrong I loved the Sims 3 but I have more fun on Sim 4 were I do to not having to wait 5-15 mins for the game come out of a lag spike.
To me the idea that you need to see a sims get into a car and drive for (depending on the world size) 3+ Mins to get to work/school/etc or I will lose my immersion is a bit much.
I don't find the load screens as a big deal, and if this is the trade-off for less ot no lag them I'm fine with it.
Man if GTA lost it's open world I would be so sad. It would literally hurt. I mean, HURT. lol And Skyrim.
Whoa!!! I would love that (as long as it is optimized)!
I also wouldn't mind a Skyrim method, if it comes down to lower-level tech, where the outside areas are open world, and there are really brief (well, longer in PS3 version) loading screens to go into and out of the buildings.
If it was programmed well like those games with worlds that don't have bad routing, I would be for open world.
Sadly, I just don't have that level of confidence in this particular company at the moment. If they can't even handle (or even have the resources and proper time for) the small/tiny "worlds", lol...?
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Also: the game doesn't care whether it has to load a premade surface or a custom made surface (if you're referring to CASt). And as for CC, that also slows down a none open world game. Don't quite understand what you mean by 'the idea that you need to see a sim get into a car (...) or I will lose my immersion is a bit much'? I don't understand that sentence