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Thoughts on open world?
Zeldaboy180
Posts: 5,997 Member
I never really cared for it at all. It was new and exciting for a time but it just had more issues than benefits for me.
Positives
1. No loading
2. The world's are beautiful
3. You can make dungeons for sims and trap them there MW u ah ah.
4. Almost completely customizable.
Downsides
1. Responsible for ghost towns for most players
2. Npc Sims like bartenders would always be at work and never available
3. Responsible for routing issues and lag
4. Unnecessary hours spent commuting.
5. Id have to call sims multiple times because they'd never show up, when they did they'd be super tired and leave almost instantly.
6. Things like diving are limited to one world.
Keep in mind these are all my opinions so let's keep it civil. This is not a Sims 3 a 4 post but rather Open vs closed world.
Honestly i would prefer how sims 4 does it but make it so there's no loading screens per neighborhood.
Positives
1. No loading
2. The world's are beautiful
3. You can make dungeons for sims and trap them there MW u ah ah.
4. Almost completely customizable.
Downsides
1. Responsible for ghost towns for most players
2. Npc Sims like bartenders would always be at work and never available
3. Responsible for routing issues and lag
4. Unnecessary hours spent commuting.
5. Id have to call sims multiple times because they'd never show up, when they did they'd be super tired and leave almost instantly.
6. Things like diving are limited to one world.
Keep in mind these are all my opinions so let's keep it civil. This is not a Sims 3 a 4 post but rather Open vs closed world.
Honestly i would prefer how sims 4 does it but make it so there's no loading screens per neighborhood.
7
Comments
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Doesn't the #3 always work out? I heard from some players that whenever they leave the lot or enter map view, the sim from the dungeons disappear?
Im my opinion, ea would better off made semi-open world, where in a district your sims are in, for example let's your home backyard, by knocking on a door it on your next neighborhood should load up the lots inside after the neighbor opens the door and you can interact in there like normally. Same for like going through a door of a library from the gym that is right across the street, and so on...
the Downsides :
1. ghost towns are not caused by open world but unsufficient hardware combined with limiting programming (32bit)
2. in a true open world where every sim is playable & not a role sim (RPG) all sims would have scheduled times to work
thinkable are also several scenarios of functionality, eg where the schedules of momentary unplayed sims are overruled by the currently played sim's actions , so every momentary unplayed sim is potentially there to interact with the played sim despite their schedules
3. routing issues is not open world but lacking map creation simply causing bugs, lag (1.)
4. lots of players relish the view, but teleporting could be lockable under options as the preferred form of moving through the map with the momentary actively played sim
5. (2.)
6. this limitation is rather the opposite to open world
the Positives :
4. customization has nothing to do with open world, TS4 devs could have opened up their backdrops to customization, TS2 wasn't open world & it was still very much customizable
btw
i am neither against nor pro open world
for me are loading screens not gamebreaking
i was fine with TS2's solutions & TS3 was great also
the sims themselves, their personality, options, options options for the player & lots of different gameplay make a sims game, not necessarily open world itself
I think a lot of issues people had with S3 stem from the hardware they are using. I didn't experience any performance issues other than CAS taking forever to load as more and more store sets got added. Issues I did experience were resolved or greatly reduced through the use of mods which says those issues could have been corrected by EA.
In regards to your last post about dive lots - that isn't necessarily true. IIRC you can make dive lots in CAW, I never got around to making my own world for the IP content, but I have seen custom worlds that contain dive lots. Sims 4 does this a lot and it's not an open world game, so the issue there is more tied to preference.
Thanks!! I was goingnto say this. To add to this some better coding to the standard of the brass mods would have solved all the problems. It is not the open world it is the coding.
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In the sims 4, the sims I left home don't do a thing: kids don't make homeworks, no sims implement their abilities. Nothing. I rarely left the house in the sims 4 because of this.
I like having different worlds not connected one to the other. Let me create many different saves I can modify as I wish, without having the familyes in others world being affected and leaving others saves alone so I can continue them whenever I want.
In the sims 2 I did the same: started a family, when tired started another, knowing I could return to the first whenever I wanted: all was going to be the same (or almost) but at least my sims age would have been the same, the time would stop and wait for me to return.
In the sims 4 I left a family to start a new one in another place. When I returned to the first family, my first family was already old! like...what? I didn't even entered in the family save, I just returned to the last family I played, knowing my save of that first family was lost.
Another thing I love about open word: swimming at the sea, and running around with the horses.
Just loading the houses in a Neighbourhood; so you don't get a loading screen to go next door.
Surely that wouldn't cause too many problems?
That may be true, but you're never going to have a highly populated town with open world.
Routing has everything to do with open world. Notice how there's very little routing issues in 2 and 1 compared to 3? They're almost non existant in 4. They're harder to prevent with an open world.
Teleporting is VERY immersing breaking. It's not so much in Sims 4 as I can imagine time has passed, but in Sims 3 it is.
That's a bad excuse, it's annoying when a sim says they're on their way and you have to call multiple times because they never show up. Or when they arrive they're tired and instantly leave. I asked a sim on a date and had to call like 3 times, when he got there he said never call me again because he instantly left.
It was a big issue in Sims 3, lots of content was restricted to one world
The routing issues in TS3 were a quality control issue, not a framework issue.
Could you elaborate on what content was restricted to one world in Sims 3?
Pros:
I liked sending my sims out on the weekend to different places. Teens to arcade. Children swimming. Adults to bar, for example. All at the same time. I liked easily switching between them whenever I wanted. I liked checking in on other spots like the park without sending my sims there. There is so much FREEDOM in an open world. I liked having my sim jog home after work every night to build stamina. I enjoyed small things like that. Those are the types of things I loved about the open world. You can't give us something this great and then taketh away.
The cons: for the sims 3 (obviously) it was the load time. The more generations I had, the slower it got. But, there was an update that significantly decreased that time and it loaded up very quickly. How about they work on making it load quicker for the sims 5? In the sims 4, I noticed that the bigger my family got, the load screen time would increase. How is this any better? It reminded me of the sims 2, where load screens were a monster wait time for me. Granted, they are faster in the S4. I HATE LOAD SCREENS!
Another con is that I couldn't seamlessly travel between worlds. I had (apparently, too) high hopes that this would be included in the sims 4. This would have been a massive improvement for the game and then I could tolerate all the other missing things like cast & world builder (it never worked for me in the sims 3; hoped improvement for S4.).
The sims 5 hopes and dreams: an improved open world where we can move seamlessly between worlds. I'd take a load screen, but I don't want to have to start a new game just to play in a different world. I'll take the load screen between worlds, but once I'm in that world, I want it completely open.
The sims 4 sucks!
I can take or leave open worlds. There are pros and cons to the way each game handles its worlds, and none of them are perfect, imo.
It's difficult to honestly say which one is best.
In Sims 1 & 2, I find I'm reluctant to send my sims out. I don't enjoy that they leave at 8am (for example), spend the day out until they're exausted, and return home to 8am again. They return home to begin the day, but are affected as if they'd had an entire day, and they're ready for bed. Sims 2 wins over Sims 1 due to needs not being as demanding.
In sims 2 & 4, I do appreciate having interconnected worlds, but 2 wins over 4 due to sheer size and the ability to build and customize worlds here.
In Sims 3, the open world has its advantages for a small household. Others have already explained why, but it can become overwhelming for large families and I often find I keep my sims at home just like I do in 1, 2, & 4. It's easier to manage them when they're not scattered all over the place. I also don't like the way the camera moves when switching between sims and lots. It upsets my vertigo and I have to avert my eyes.
In Sims 4, I don't like how time continues for the sims left on the home-lot and how they are often all fully energized (all needs are full) when the sim who's out and about returns home. It's almost like 2 and 1, but with a twist. It's late at night, everyone but the sim who travelled is wide awake, and none of them have done a single thing I would have liked them to do. Makes me not want to send sims out.
I've mentioned in the past that I am not against the micro-hoods in the S4 worlds. I still don't feel they're a major issue. But I do feel it may have worked better had they made each 'micro-sector' behave as an open hood. Maybe then, I would feel more comfortable having my sim visit 'designated' lots rather than have them simply wander about the open areas that feels more or less like an extension of their home and nothing more.
Most of the downsides you mentioned can be counter-argued with downsides to each of the games.
In 4, I dislike how a sim can not call a sim when they're supposedly somewhere in the 'micro-hood' your sim resides in. Yet I can not find them anywhere to interact with.
Most issues are optimization issues in each of the games and I highly doubt any of them have to do with the actual structure of the world opposed to how they were designed and/or programmed to respond to player interaction.
At the end of the day, I would like to have an open world with interconnecting open worlds. Long loads don't bother me if I plan to spend time in whatever world I've chosen to play in, because once I'm there, I'm there for a while anyway. The realist in me knows this is not something that would come easily though. Therefore, I'm fine with the sacrifices if they suit me.
Right now, the open world suits me best, but how I'll feel about it tomorrow might change. My colony is growing, and soon I'll have to move them, knowing that I will have to take relationship hits when I do so. But the small worlds in 4 are not a solution for me. When I run out of space in 4, it is more or less the exact same issue I will face. The only way to continue on would be to save each offspring and start a new save with them, rendering the difference between open worlds and the interconnected worlds in 4 moot. 4's worlds are simply too small, and 3's 'world' is all there is, leaving me with a feeling of limitation in both games.
But do I want to go back to the closed world (and its shortcomings) and limited apsirations of 2 to compensate for both decisions that don't work out? Right now, I'm not really sure. A solution to advance and continue on would be preferrable, really, but that does not exist.
Open 'hoods, rather than open worlds, but both being slightly bigger.
'Hoods with 10-12 lots, and worlds with 4-6 hoods of that size.
TS4 has hoods with about 5 lots, and only 3 hoods per world. Not quite big enough for my liking.
I'm hoping there will be a TS5 that takes this middle ground.
I think that would be well cool. I would love to see different neighborhoods in each world, like Sunset Valley one side of the track, Moonlight Falls on the other side, maybe something like Hidden Springs up in the hills. Oh the stories that could be made.
Sims 4 Comic Legacy
TS1, TS2 & TS3 are based on the exact same engine
there were very much routing issues in TS1 & TS2 as well
TS3 just added way more of it due to the inclusion of open world
but the idea of an open world itself is not the cause, its execution is, the first engine of sims was not designed for a game like this & all routing had to be included by hand, which is prone to human error & means increase in costs
TS4 ...
it has no routing issues, yeah
they could have easily add all the "solutions" of TS4 regarding routing in TS3 too & several of them they did indeed
one of such "solutions" is clipping
TS4 sims clip like plum, everywhere
another "solutions" to routing problems, it has no real babies, it has no toddlers, no sim runs freely on a lot, sims don't interact with each other in a combined animation, no CASt, mushy textures, blurr, octagonals ... & don't forget the Armagedon of TS4 - CULLING (relational & factual)
all that has nothing to do with open world
not only open world is prevented in TS4, in fact life simulation is prevented in TS4
backdrops
TS3 has backdrops too, but they are
1. nature
2. roads leading outside the city
3. enough space & options for simulation
4. city structure
5. potential for interconnected worlds (NRaas Traveler)
TS3 has the same non-open world gameplay problems TS2 already has
the time inconsistencies
already WA introduces time inconsistencies between its 3 vacation worlds & the main home world
TS3 is in fact not open world, it's just a huge world to play in combined with time passing for a larger group of sims than in TS2
you have to imagine a lot of things in TS4
are you talking about TS3 or TS4 ?
if TS3, then
as i said, they could have programmed non active sims dropping their actions to rush to where the active sim wanted them to be
but NPCs are pure role, they have no life
if you invite a "sim" which is in fact only a NPC working 24/7 you shouldn't be upset that they have no time at all, if the role is calling they'll drop everything, they are no sims with free will
there are also several NPCs which have some free time but NPCs exist solely to function in a role
in TS3 not even NRaas mods can make a NPC a fully functioning sim, the code is not there, the game was not planned to function as "sims only"
if NPCs are immersion breaking to you, then we agree
i always have spoken against the usage of pure NPCs in a life simulation game
i understand the limitations in a game, i accepted limited usage of them in TS1, TS2 & TS3 for various reasons
but i have totally enough of them in TS4, where they are an inaccessible plague
(very much like the zombies in TS3 were, & i loved my zombie sims !!! in TS2)
in TS2
1. i was able to at least edit NPCs 100% in SimPe
2. they acted even as NPCs along their traits
3. traits mattered in TS2 very much
moreso it is in TS4 too, isn't it ?
CL ? hospital, science lab, police station ? ... cars & locomotion restricted to FX only
TS4 runs better than TS3 not because it is only partially open world but because so much stuff is FX only
it's just less world, less sims, less traits, less texture, less options, less life states, less ages, less city structure & functionality, less life
you can have in TS3 a smaller world than Bridgeport
it will run better on a good modern machine
but of course you can't have no NPCs in TS3 & in TS4 as well
in general
open world is a myth
there are no open worlds at all, nowhere
& surely not in a game
but there are well enough planned & executed games
where the devs understand what is basics to a genre & where they protect that from ANY changes
The Sims franchise seems to be open to ANY ideas new devs bring into it
there is NOBODY at EA protecting the basics of a life simulation cause they just have no idea why people play that sort of a game
they probably think TSFP is a life simulation as well
TS3 is no open world
it's just HUGE
huge in options, huge in world extent, huge in population, huge in traits amount, huge in hardware usage
with it's dimensions it looks like open world where in fact it's just too big to notice its limits apparently
TS4 is so small everywhere, it's hard not to notice
Otherwise, I have nothing but kudos for the open world in TS3. It allowed for more realism, immersion, and connection to the sims. I loved that all members of my Sim household continued to exist, function, and progress when my attention was focused on another Sim. Even more, I loved that the entire population progressed together.
These days, open world games are more the norm than the exception. Computers are more sophisticated and capable than ever before. Yet, for TS4 the designers opted to go back to the loading screens from more than ten years ago.
I understand the need for the game to be inclusive. However, the problems with TS3 were optimization and the intentional decision not to use modern computers full 64-bit architecture. If there had been a 64-bit version of TS3, I suspect that there would have been a lot more satisfied consumers.
It's for Sims 5, if we ever get one.
at the end of TS3 development i've read very often warnings that the next iteration cannot be better than all the dissatisfying stuff in TS3
than i didn't take it seriously enough, i had faith in the development team, in the business sense at EA
but indeed
those people warning were absolutely right
TS4 devs are the same people who made the wrong decisions already with TS3, who made & are now still making the wrongest decisions with TS4 & if nothing radically changes about who is in charge & executing & how with the next iteration, then there is no indication to believe that TS5 will be any better of a life simulation no matter if it's closed, open or whatever world or time management or how pretty the 3D is, or if it has backdrops, loading screens, FX or not
this franchise is ill
seriously ill, if there is nobody at EA who finds a cure then its future looks bleak
It's just so immersion breaking being interrupted while I'm playing to load a lot, and then load the house lot again. It does not motivate me to do anything in the game but stay home. And that's boring. In TS3, I find myself exploring all over town at all hours of the day because of how seamless it is.
When they work on base games, the amount of staff they have is greater than the amount working on expansions AFAIK. They bring in many different developers just for the development of the base game.
It's also worth mentioning there's some Sims developers working on 4 that have been around since 2, some even since TS1. And some of those people have higher positions up the ladder. Yet, TS4 turned out as it did. There's just many more factors than individual developers. But I do agree with you to a certain degree, as many of the design flaws of 3 are back in 4. Shame there's no open world to redeem the game. I don't know if watching my Sim drink water for a few seconds while they watch TV is a decent trade off.