So basically amidst the chaos what I gathered from the announcement is that TS4 will essentially turn into a more expensive version of The Sims Freeplay with all this live nonsense.
I guess EA and Maxis just waited for the fans to forget about the initial subscription model leak before they pulled this. I won't be surprised if it comes back in the endgame.
Did you actually read what Graham wrote, or did you just look at the word live?
I actually read it and the whole thing just reeked of candy coating stuff that'll be problematic in the future. Thanks for being not condescending at all. "It means we're gonna give you more packs!" that's great I could use more mindless stuff packs and game packs that totally weren't chopped off from an EP for more cash. "We'll have more patches and fixes!" oh you mean patches for broken stuff that shouldn't even be there in the first place? Thanks for doing me a solid Maxis!
This whole thing is just plum. I can see the game turning into a glorified mobile game within the year or so with this business model they're slowly suckering players like you into. If they really don't mean for the game to devolve into that maybe they shouldn't have used a term that has such a negative stigma around it.
Also I absolutely love how put down the other guy's opinion of The Sims having a bad DLC model just because he was wrong on it being the worst. I've played a metric ton of games and The Sims is right up there with the horrible DLC with it's only saving grace being that it's a game about life and thus having plenty of opportunities for expansion.
The negative stigma surrounding "live service" on these forums is mostly made up of misconceptions on what that meant, because before this thread I saw very few people who actually knew what it meant. But many just assumed it was bad.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
There is a negative stigma and it is rightful.
Just calling regular updates as a live service is very suspicious thing. Live service is usually called when you have a problem and there is a representative of the service to guide you and help you. Why would they call updates as live service!!!? It is totally pointless.
And if the goal is to think that since they give us regular updates so no need for EPs then it will be a failure service instead of a live one!! Update is an after service, when a consumer pays for a product he also pays the after service which could be in any form like guarantee, updates etc.
EA, the updates are not something you try to sell us. They cannot be a substitute for EPs.
Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
So basically amidst the chaos what I gathered from the announcement is that TS4 will essentially turn into a more expensive version of The Sims Freeplay with all this live nonsense.
I guess EA and Maxis just waited for the fans to forget about the initial subscription model leak before they pulled this. I won't be surprised if it comes back in the endgame.
Did you actually read what Graham wrote, or did you just look at the word live?
I actually read it and the whole thing just reeked of candy coating stuff that'll be problematic in the future. Thanks for being not condescending at all. "It means we're gonna give you more packs!" that's great I could use more mindless stuff packs and game packs that totally weren't chopped off from an EP for more cash. "We'll have more patches and fixes!" oh you mean patches for broken stuff that shouldn't even be there in the first place? Thanks for doing me a solid Maxis!
This whole thing is just plum. I can see the game turning into a glorified mobile game within the year or so with this business model they're slowly suckering players like you into. If they really don't mean for the game to devolve into that maybe they shouldn't have used a term that has such a negative stigma around it.
Also I absolutely love how put down the other guy's opinion of The Sims having a bad DLC model just because he was wrong on it being the worst. I've played a metric ton of games and The Sims is right up there with the horrible DLC with it's only saving grace being that it's a game about life and thus having plenty of opportunities for expansion.
The negative stigma surrounding "live service" on these forums is mostly made up of misconceptions on what that meant, because before this thread I saw very few people who actually knew what it meant. But many just assumed it was bad.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
There is a negative stigma and it is rightful.
Just calling regular updates as a live service is very suspicious thing. Live service is usually called when you have a problem and there is a representative of the service to guide you and help you. Why would they call updates as live service!!!? It is totally pointless.
So basically amidst the chaos what I gathered from the announcement is that TS4 will essentially turn into a more expensive version of The Sims Freeplay with all this live nonsense.
I guess EA and Maxis just waited for the fans to forget about the initial subscription model leak before they pulled this. I won't be surprised if it comes back in the endgame.
Did you actually read what Graham wrote, or did you just look at the word live?
I actually read it and the whole thing just reeked of candy coating stuff that'll be problematic in the future. Thanks for being not condescending at all. "It means we're gonna give you more packs!" that's great I could use more mindless stuff packs and game packs that totally weren't chopped off from an EP for more cash. "We'll have more patches and fixes!" oh you mean patches for broken stuff that shouldn't even be there in the first place? Thanks for doing me a solid Maxis!
This whole thing is just plum. I can see the game turning into a glorified mobile game within the year or so with this business model they're slowly suckering players like you into. If they really don't mean for the game to devolve into that maybe they shouldn't have used a term that has such a negative stigma around it.
Also I absolutely love how put down the other guy's opinion of The Sims having a bad DLC model just because he was wrong on it being the worst. I've played a metric ton of games and The Sims is right up there with the horrible DLC with it's only saving grace being that it's a game about life and thus having plenty of opportunities for expansion.
The negative stigma surrounding "live service" on these forums is mostly made up of misconceptions on what that meant, because before this thread I saw very few people who actually knew what it meant. But many just assumed it was bad.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
There is a negative stigma and it is rightful.
Just calling regular updates as a live service is very suspicious thing. Live service is usually called when you have a problem and there is a representative of the service to guide you and help you. Why would they call updates as live service!!!? It is totally pointless.
The standard phrase for real-time customer support is "live support" or "live customer service", not "live service". The only other thing I can find "live service" being used for (alongside what's described by Graham) is live-streamed religious services. And I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of confusion between these two meanings of "live service", which is all that matters — it's okay in English for a word or phrase to have two meanings.
Edited for spelling post Red Bull. I should just buy a Red Bull fridge this week.
Post edited by luthienrising on
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Hey everyone, in the course of replying to someone on twitter yesterday, I see my comments have kicked off some lively discussion here on the forums. Twitter isn't a great format for detailed information on complex subjects, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to post here and shine some light on what I was chatting about.
...
Thank you so much for the tweet and detailed explanation, dear sir! (and, I'm glad I asked, to provide an opportunity to clear up confusion, not start a debate, of course.)
Don't anger the fruit. It may make her toot (at you).
Sims 4 isn't really very nimble. Probably less so. Development has been sluggish and unresponsive. Appears that the "live service" was more of an excuse to say, "We'll patch that in later." So much damage to the brand over simple things like toddlers, and this "live service" has been useless at preventing massive loss of fan base. I 100% support successful "Live Service" like Bethesda and Fallout 4, but this isn't really Live Service. "Live" implies you guys can dynamically respond to player feed back and add content via updates. Instead you guys follow a strict plan set in stone long before launch. So my suggestion would be to USE your Live Service set up. For the love of Pete just patch in toddlers and preteens and get on with it all ready.
What's the deal with the creepy Sim in the yellow shirt, and glasses? The one right up there! I'm guessing what ever he is it starts with "serial".
First of all, thank you for explaining. I really like the live service. I love the frequent updates. However, I agree knowing this has nothing to do with the live service I do want more expansion packs. I miss them and I do feel like they should be released more frequently. I don't need an expansion pack every month, but I do feel like every 6-8 months would be good. I know you don't have a schedule, but I think that expansion packs are very important for the game and I do miss having a big pack once in a while.
So far they have released an EP close to around every 6-8 months. There were 5 months between Base Game and GtW, and 8 months between GtW and GT. We're on the seventh month since EP02, so we're likely to get a new one in the next month or so since they've followed the same SP/SP/GP/SP/SP pattern they did between the last two and Backyard Stuff will be the final SP in that pattern for this round.
So basically amidst the chaos what I gathered from the announcement is that TS4 will essentially turn into a more expensive version of The Sims Freeplay with all this live nonsense.
I guess EA and Maxis just waited for the fans to forget about the initial subscription model leak before they pulled this. I won't be surprised if it comes back in the endgame.
Did you actually read what Graham wrote, or did you just look at the word live?
I actually read it and the whole thing just reeked of candy coating stuff that'll be problematic in the future. Thanks for being not condescending at all. "It means we're gonna give you more packs!" that's great I could use more mindless stuff packs and game packs that totally weren't chopped off from an EP for more cash. "We'll have more patches and fixes!" oh you mean patches for broken stuff that shouldn't even be there in the first place? Thanks for doing me a solid Maxis!
This whole thing is just plum. I can see the game turning into a glorified mobile game within the year or so with this business model they're slowly suckering players like you into. If they really don't mean for the game to devolve into that maybe they shouldn't have used a term that has such a negative stigma around it.
Also I absolutely love how put down the other guy's opinion of The Sims having a bad DLC model just because he was wrong on it being the worst. I've played a metric ton of games and The Sims is right up there with the horrible DLC with it's only saving grace being that it's a game about life and thus having plenty of opportunities for expansion.
The negative stigma surrounding "live service" on these forums is mostly made up of misconceptions on what that meant, because before this thread I saw very few people who actually knew what it meant. But many just assumed it was bad.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
There is a negative stigma and it is rightful.
Just calling regular updates as a live service is very suspicious thing. Live service is usually called when you have a problem and there is a representative of the service to guide you and help you. Why would they call updates as live service!!!? It is totally pointless.
And if the goal is to think that since they give us regular updates so no need for EPs then it will be a failure service instead of a live one!! Update is an after service, when a consumer pays for a product he also pays the after service which could be in any form like guarantee, updates etc.
EA, the updates are not something you try to sell us. They cannot be a substitute for EPs.
There are many different definitions of a 'live service'. You might see it as pointless, but that is your perspective and the developers choose to call the game a live service due to the more frequent tweaking done and content added to the game.
Update is an after service? If I recall, don't we get updates prior to the release of a Pack? So if anything wouldn't patches be a before service?
I fail to see how they're even hinting at substituting Expansion Packs with Patches. Where is this misconception coming from?
Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
So far they have released an EP close to around every 6-8 months. There were 5 months between Base Game and GtW, and 8 months between GtW and GT. We're on the seventh month since EP02, so we're likely to get a new one in the next month or so since they've followed the same SP/SP/GP/SP/SP pattern they did between the last two and Backyard Stuff will be the final SP in that pattern for this round.
Sorry to say but we won't be getting a new EP this quarter unless its theme was very subtle in the teaser.
Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
Sims 4 isn't really very nimble. Probably less so. Development has been sluggish and unresponsive. Appears that the "live service" was more of an excuse to say, "We'll patch that in later." So much damage to the brand over simple things like toddlers, and this "live service" has been useless at preventing massive loss of fan base. I 100% support successful "Live Service" like Bethesda and Fallout 4, but this isn't really Live Service. "Live" implies you guys can dynamically respond to player feed back and add content via updates. Instead you guys follow a strict plan set in stone long before launch. So my suggestion would be to USE your Live Service set up. For the love of Pete just patch in toddlers and preteens and get on with it all ready.
So far they have released an EP close to around every 6-8 months. There were 5 months between Base Game and GtW, and 8 months between GtW and GT. We're on the seventh month since EP02, so we're likely to get a new one in the next month or so since they've followed the same SP/SP/GP/SP/SP pattern they did between the last two and Backyard Stuff will be the final SP in that pattern for this round.
Sorry to say but we won't be getting a new EP this quarter unless its theme was very subtle in the teaser.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
Which games? Pray tell which games are these that are adding up to amounts like $700 for you that are not the Sims? That are "far worse"? Gosh, any games I have, I can lay out money left and right for optional DLC and "season passes" and I still cannot get to amounts anything close to the Sims. On top of that, Sims 4 base game is 60 euros from Origin! That's WITHOUT any packs at all. That's over twice what American players are paying, and excuses like tax and "higher minimum wages" don't even come close to explaining it. NO OTHER COMPANY DOES THIS. Sims 3 pets is 40 euros! That's so crazy I cannot even get my mind around it!
I don't mind paying for games and game content. I spend a lot on games, I have for a long time, and The Sims franchise is a very small part of it.
But absolutely nothing else I can think of reaches anything close to the amounts that this one does. Are you including MMORPG subscription costs in your statements? Because I have no idea where you are finding games to spend that much money on for content. Or are you talking about superficial things, like keys for chests in DOTA 2 or something? Nope, still not seeing it.
Microtransactions addictions in mobile games? Well maybe, buy that's another beat entirely and you might as well just start including VLTs and slot machines if you are going to start using loose terms like that.
Nothing else has DLC that will reach the amounts the Sims does. And that has been fine, when the releases were meaty and had substance behind them. But that's no longer the case, and it looks like there's no light at the end of the tunnel for it here.
Games that are "far worse" for dlc, indeed. Hogwash.
I not once put down their belief that The Sims DLC model is bad, I just pointed out that it's not the worst when there are games far worse out there.
Which games? Pray tell which games are these that are adding up to amounts like $700 for you that are not the Sims? That are "far worse"? Gosh, any games I have, I can lay out money left and right for optional DLC and "season passes" and I still cannot get to amounts anything close to the Sims. On top of that, Sims 4 base game is 60 euros from Origin! That's WITHOUT any packs at all. That's over twice what American players are paying, and excuses like tax and "higher minimum wages" don't even come close to explaining it. NO OTHER COMPANY DOES THIS. Sims 3 pets is 40 euros! That's so crazy I cannot even get my mind around it!
I don't mind paying for games and game content. I spend a lot on games, I have for a long time, and The Sims franchise is a very small part of it.
But absolutely nothing else I can think of reaches anything close to the amounts that this one does. Are you including MMORPG subscription costs in your statements? Because I have no idea where you are finding games to spend that much money on for content. Or are you talking about superficial things, like keys for chests in DOTA 2 or something? Nope, still not seeing it.
Microtransactions addictions in mobile games? Well maybe, buy that's another beat entirely and you might as well just start including VLTs and slot machines if you are going to start using loose terms like that.
Nothing else has DLC that will reach the amounts the Sims does. And that has been fine, when the releases were meaty and had substance behind them. But that's no longer the case, and it looks like there's no light at the end of the tunnel for it here.
Games that are "far worse" for dlc, indeed. Hogwash.
Rock Band is a good example as stated above, and also Train Simulator. It has over $2000 of DLC on Steam! And a game I play a lot charges $130 for its newest expansion, and would cost upwards of $300 to buy all the content seperately.
I predicted it right when I said that developing the gender-bender patch will take away from expansion releases. Prepare for a dry spell, dry spell that will cost EA a lot of fans. If they knew what is good for them, they would pull the plug on SPs RIGHT NOW in order to hurry up the next EP and then resume the SPs after it.
I predicted it right when I said that developing the gender-bender patch will take away from expansion releases. Prepare for a dry spell, dry spell that will cost EA a lot of fans. If they knew what is good for them, they would pull the plug on SPs RIGHT NOW in order to hurry up the next EP and then resume the SPs after it.
We got that dry spell when they were working on it. February to June. That was the dry spell. Anything else is probably not going to be related to that patch unless it's just working on fixes for the clothing and making sure the townie generator doesn't accidentally generate with the opposite tagged clothes.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
Comments
There is a negative stigma and it is rightful.
Just calling regular updates as a live service is very suspicious thing. Live service is usually called when you have a problem and there is a representative of the service to guide you and help you. Why would they call updates as live service!!!? It is totally pointless.
And if the goal is to think that since they give us regular updates so no need for EPs then it will be a failure service instead of a live one!! Update is an after service, when a consumer pays for a product he also pays the after service which could be in any form like guarantee, updates etc.
EA, the updates are not something you try to sell us. They cannot be a substitute for EPs.
Yup I agree, that is very odd to me.
The standard phrase for real-time customer support is "live support" or "live customer service", not "live service". The only other thing I can find "live service" being used for (alongside what's described by Graham) is live-streamed religious services. And I don't think there's going to be a whole lot of confusion between these two meanings of "live service", which is all that matters — it's okay in English for a word or phrase to have two meanings.
Edited for spelling post Red Bull. I should just buy a Red Bull fridge this week.
There are many different definitions of a 'live service'. You might see it as pointless, but that is your perspective and the developers choose to call the game a live service due to the more frequent tweaking done and content added to the game.
Update is an after service? If I recall, don't we get updates prior to the release of a Pack? So if anything wouldn't patches be a before service?
I fail to see how they're even hinting at substituting Expansion Packs with Patches. Where is this misconception coming from?
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
Sorry to say but we won't be getting a new EP this quarter unless its theme was very subtle in the teaser.
Sometimes your creativity is limited where you use it most, but you can use those limitations to inspire new forms of creativity you may never have thought of beforehand.
Thank god...
Which games? Pray tell which games are these that are adding up to amounts like $700 for you that are not the Sims? That are "far worse"? Gosh, any games I have, I can lay out money left and right for optional DLC and "season passes" and I still cannot get to amounts anything close to the Sims. On top of that, Sims 4 base game is 60 euros from Origin! That's WITHOUT any packs at all. That's over twice what American players are paying, and excuses like tax and "higher minimum wages" don't even come close to explaining it. NO OTHER COMPANY DOES THIS. Sims 3 pets is 40 euros! That's so crazy I cannot even get my mind around it!
I don't mind paying for games and game content. I spend a lot on games, I have for a long time, and The Sims franchise is a very small part of it.
But absolutely nothing else I can think of reaches anything close to the amounts that this one does. Are you including MMORPG subscription costs in your statements? Because I have no idea where you are finding games to spend that much money on for content. Or are you talking about superficial things, like keys for chests in DOTA 2 or something? Nope, still not seeing it.
Microtransactions addictions in mobile games? Well maybe, buy that's another beat entirely and you might as well just start including VLTs and slot machines if you are going to start using loose terms like that.
Nothing else has DLC that will reach the amounts the Sims does. And that has been fine, when the releases were meaty and had substance behind them. But that's no longer the case, and it looks like there's no light at the end of the tunnel for it here.
Games that are "far worse" for dlc, indeed. Hogwash.
Rock Band is a good example as stated above, and also Train Simulator. It has over $2000 of DLC on Steam! And a game I play a lot charges $130 for its newest expansion, and would cost upwards of $300 to buy all the content seperately.
We got that dry spell when they were working on it. February to June. That was the dry spell. Anything else is probably not going to be related to that patch unless it's just working on fixes for the clothing and making sure the townie generator doesn't accidentally generate with the opposite tagged clothes.
Sims Fanboy
Play with Life