The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
Are you trying to justify them? because if they continue in this way, this game will always lacking in every sense...
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
Are you trying to justify them? because if they continue in this way, this game will always lacking in every sense...
I'm just sharing my opinion and discussing choice of features in a Sims game. I don't think the game is lacking.
Well, it's not a charity, right? The design and development and animation costs have to be covered somehow. Most of us don't give away weeks and weeks of our labour for free.
While I fully agree with this, the basegame isn't exactly for free either.
Exactly. That's the whole point I'm making: they make stuff at a cost, we pay that cost. We paid for the development of what was in the base game. If there was full-out weather, we'd have paid for that, too, and had a $100 base game. Even stuff that gets patched in is covered by us paying for it somewhere, under the budget for something we're buying. (Though I hope for the devs' sake that they aren't on one of those systems where they have to allocate every minute of their time to a specific project - I had a job where that was the deal once, as a kind of project shepherder, and sometimes it was really hard to figure out which project a particular necessary hour's work was going to be allocated to.)
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Well, it's not a charity, right? The design and development and animation costs have to be covered somehow. Most of us don't give away weeks and weeks of our labour for free.
While I fully agree with this, the basegame isn't exactly for free either.
Exactly. That's the whole point I'm making: they make stuff at a cost, we pay that cost. We paid for the development of what was in the base game. If there was full-out weather, we'd have paid for that, too, and had a $100 base game. Even stuff that gets patched in is covered by us paying for it somewhere, under the budget for something we're buying. (Though I hope for the devs' sake that they aren't on one of those systems where they have to allocate every minute of their time to a specific project - I had a job where that was the deal once, as a kind of project shepherder, and sometimes it was really hard to figure out which project a particular necessary hour's work was going to be allocated to.)
Yep, some of us have been paying since the Sims 1 too. Kind of ironic that the Sims 3 made so much money, yet the Sims 4 is confined by a budget. Sounds fishy sometimes, but eh I guess it is just EA.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Well, it's not a charity, right? The design and development and animation costs have to be covered somehow. Most of us don't give away weeks and weeks of our labour for free.
While I fully agree with this, the basegame isn't exactly for free either.
Exactly. That's the whole point I'm making: they make stuff at a cost, we pay that cost. We paid for the development of what was in the base game. If there was full-out weather, we'd have paid for that, too, and had a $100 base game. Even stuff that gets patched in is covered by us paying for it somewhere, under the budget for something we're buying. (Though I hope for the devs' sake that they aren't on one of those systems where they have to allocate every minute of their time to a specific project - I had a job where that was the deal once, as a kind of project shepherder, and sometimes it was really hard to figure out which project a particular necessary hour's work was going to be allocated to.)
Yep, some of us have been paying since the Sims 1 too. Kind of ironic that the Sims 3 made so much money, yet the Sims 4 is confined by a budget. Sounds fishy sometimes, but eh I guess it is just EA.
Every software project has a budget. Sims 3 included. And as EA is not a nonprofit, not all profits have to be spent on development or on reducing prices - and as a public company, EA has an actual obligation to investors to give them a return on their investment, too. (The investors are the ones putting the money up front for development, not you and I - unless you're also an investor, of course, in which case your dividends come from things like Sims 3 profits.)
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Every software project has a budget. Sims 3 included. And as EA is not a nonprofit, not all profits have to be spent on development or on reducing prices - and as a public company, EA has an actual obligation to investors to give them a return on their investment, too. (The investors are the ones putting the money up front for development, not you and I - unless you're also an investor, of course, in which case your dividends come from things like Sims 3 profits.)
True. I think Neia mentioned that EA purchased PopCap games too. I think it did help make me realize that what we purchase for the Sims doesn't always get invested back in. So it was a wake up call for me. Why I don't feel guilty about the "You must purchase everything Sims 4" comments. Because it is not like it will always help fund the Sims. It funds all EA games and yes to the investors too. I think the Sims 3 and 4 were the first Sims games in which the investors seemed to matter more than the customers. I miss when Sims games were made to be fun not just with the quantity over quality demand. Oh well c'est la vie. Sorry I didn't mean to disagree on you about this. It is just something in business that irritates me when customers don't get treated well. I'm just the type of person that tries to please everyone I guess which can be a flaw sometimes.
I don't mind weather isn't in the base game though. It hasn't been for any of the Sims games. That is one EP theme like pets that I don't mind waiting on. I know both themes don't get made until after year 2 or 3 of initial base game release.
Post edited by Scobre on
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Well, it's not a charity, right? The design and development and animation costs have to be covered somehow. Most of us don't give away weeks and weeks of our labour for free.
While I fully agree with this, the basegame isn't exactly for free either.
Exactly. That's the whole point I'm making: they make stuff at a cost, we pay that cost. We paid for the development of what was in the base game. If there was full-out weather, we'd have paid for that, too, and had a $100 base game. Even stuff that gets patched in is covered by us paying for it somewhere, under the budget for something we're buying. (Though I hope for the devs' sake that they aren't on one of those systems where they have to allocate every minute of their time to a specific project - I had a job where that was the deal once, as a kind of project shepherder, and sometimes it was really hard to figure out which project a particular necessary hour's work was going to be allocated to.)
Agreed. Completely agree with your opinion about allocating the exact amount of time working on projects too by the way; have to deal with that more and more myself and it's unreliable, irritating, time consuming and counterproductive -_-
Because it means less money for EA so they decided to make tons of DLC for different purposes to make loads of dough. It started in Sims 2 itself as Sims 1 didn't go crazy with DLC. Sims 2 originally was different as shown there in the video, they had to redo everything because of a power outage or something and now we got the new Sims 2. Sims 2 originally looked more like a semi updated Sims 1 with the same style view, controls, etc.
Sims 2 brought weather in Sims 2 Seasons years later after the base game released. It happened again with Sims 3, now we wait (if even possible) for Sims 4 Seasons (unless it follows the Get fad then it made be called something else).
1. The Sims 2
2. The Sims 3
3. The Sims 4 (5 years later its decent)
4. The Sims 1
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
You are completely missing the point. It is not about what is only important to daily life for *you*. There are people who live in places where everyone owns a pool. That's an important part of a home. Just like basements are to me. I don't know of any home that doesn't have one where I live.
It's reaching the wider audience. Rocket ships...how many people build space ships in their yards or train to be in NASA without being in the military first? That was probably a feature that could have been held off for a pack and time and resources that could have gone to a more well-rounded feature.
The features I was discussing...what goes into an average neighborhood, transportation, different types of housing, schools, etc. Those are things that all people know about and utilize. Rockets and nightclubs and things like that will only matter to a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Besides that, those venue were very limited to basically socializing. And that part of the game isn't even top notch.
One of the reasons TS2 is still being played today is because of the AI and game mechanics. It has flaws, but those sims seemed real...I was controlling a character who was their own person. Example...and this just happened yesterday...I had a mother who was neglectful of her kids and cheating on her husband. She still had a great relationship with the husband. The social worker came while the husband was at work. I had enough of her to begin with so I just wanted him to end the relationship. I made them keep fighting and arguing and many times he looked up at the camera like why are you making me do this. See...that brings him to life. He is him with his own desires and I am forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do. He isn't just a doll. That's what made these sims so endearing and their socializations so enduring. They didn't get along with everyone and they weren't always happy.
**This was him BTW**
If TS4 had those kind of mechanics...and that is the simulation part, I certainly wouldn't have found the game so boring. I did not buy this game or buy into this franchise to play with dolls. I bought in because it was a simulation game and I expect to see some simulations happening. Everyone is always happy and friendly even after something terrible just happened to them. That's the bore and that doesn't keep everyone entertained for the long haul, as evidenced here by the constant threads asking for more information...or the many other websites with the same.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
You are completely missing the point. It is not about what is only important to daily life for *you*. There are people who live in places where everyone owns a pool. That's an important part of a home. Just like basements are to me. I don't know of any home that doesn't have one where I live.
It's reaching the wider audience. Rocket ships...how many people build space ships in their yards or train to be in NASA without being in the military first? That was probably a feature that could have been held off for a pack and time and resources that could have gone to a more well-rounded feature.
The features I was discussing...what goes into an average neighborhood, transportation, different types of housing, schools, etc. Those are things that all people know about and utilize. Rockets and nightclubs and things like that will only matter to a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Besides that, those venue were very limited to basically socializing. And that part of the game isn't even top notch.
One of the reasons TS2 is still being played today is because of the AI and game mechanics. It has flaws, but those sims seemed real...I was controlling a character who was their own person. Example...and this just happened yesterday...I had a mother who was neglectful of her kids and cheating on her husband. She still had a great relationship with the husband. The social worker came while the husband was at work. I had enough of her to begin with so I just wanted him to end the relationship. I made them keep fighting and arguing and many times he looked up at the camera like why are you making me do this. See...that brings him to life. He is him with his own desires and I am forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do. He isn't just a doll. That's what made these sims so endearing and their socializations so enduring. They didn't get along with everyone and they weren't always happy.
If TS4 had those kind of mechanics...and that is the simulation part, I certainly wouldn't have found the game so boring. I did not buy this game or buy into this franchise to play with dolls. I bought in because it was a simulation game and I expect to see some simulations happening. Everyone is always happy and friendly even after something terrible just happened to them. That's the bore and that doesn't keep everyone entertained for the long haul, as evidenced here by the constant threads asking for more information...or the many other websites with the same.
And there are people who lives in places where bars are more common than swimming pools, and places where basements are rather uncommon, that's the whole point, what is important for you, may not be what is important for everybody else. No matter the set of features, there would have been common things not included, because we don't all have the same "common things".
I personally think rocket science could have been kept for GTW, and I would have prefered a sport activity usable by children instead. I'm sure there are people who prefer rocket science over children playing soccer though.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
Well I'm going to be the neutral party here and say that both matter just like life states matter to people too that don't play the typical life. We are all Simmers and have different aspects of the series of what catches our attention about the Sims. Everyone needs something to make the game fun to them.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
How is going out with your partner or friends not part of the basics of life? To me, it's way more basic than a backyard swimming pool. I was really excited not to have to wait to buy an expansion for my Sims to get to enjoy what to me and pretty much everyone I know is a normal part of everyday life. Going out at the end of a workday or on the weekend makes everyday life great.
How hard was it to code? I dunno, but venue behavior is a lot more than a set of furniture.
As for whether it plays like a game not a dollhouse, that's subjective, not measurable or even predictable. For me, personally, the Sims in this game feel more "real" than in the previous version. I'm actually playing a game; in Sims 3, I was playing watch-the-AI-do-its-own-thing-without-me. The experience of any one game is going to vary from person to person. This one feels like Sims to me; the previous one felt like I was playing a domestic version of Civilization.
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I've always wished apartments could be base game material some day as far as "daily life" things go. I've lived in them all my life and all around where I live are apartments aside from a small subdivision of houses. It's still weird to me having to build a full on house, having a personal pool, a basement, etc.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
You said it wasn't a new feature, which pertaining to the animation system, is inaccurate. Because of multitasking, they went with interactions being mainly data driven and having a set of constraints to determine whether they can be multitasked or not. All that is a new feature.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.
Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.
Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
@Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.
Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!
You can mod it !
And the people who don't use mods and have always been able to change the venues in the past? One of the biggest complaints when the game first came out was the venue restrictions.
The difference here is that I don't just think of myself and making it fun for me. I think about the playerbase and all of the simmers I have met over the years who love different features than me.
Comments
There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)
Are you trying to justify them?
I'm just sharing my opinion and discussing choice of features in a Sims game. I don't think the game is lacking.
Exactly. That's the whole point I'm making: they make stuff at a cost, we pay that cost. We paid for the development of what was in the base game. If there was full-out weather, we'd have paid for that, too, and had a $100 base game. Even stuff that gets patched in is covered by us paying for it somewhere, under the budget for something we're buying. (Though I hope for the devs' sake that they aren't on one of those systems where they have to allocate every minute of their time to a specific project - I had a job where that was the deal once, as a kind of project shepherder, and sometimes it was really hard to figure out which project a particular necessary hour's work was going to be allocated to.)
Every software project has a budget. Sims 3 included. And as EA is not a nonprofit, not all profits have to be spent on development or on reducing prices - and as a public company, EA has an actual obligation to investors to give them a return on their investment, too. (The investors are the ones putting the money up front for development, not you and I - unless you're also an investor, of course, in which case your dividends come from things like Sims 3 profits.)
I don't mind weather isn't in the base game though. It hasn't been for any of the Sims games. That is one EP theme like pets that I don't mind waiting on. I know both themes don't get made until after year 2 or 3 of initial base game release.
Sims 2 brought weather in Sims 2 Seasons years later after the base game released. It happened again with Sims 3, now we wait (if even possible) for Sims 4 Seasons (unless it follows the Get fad then it made be called something else).
2. The Sims 3
3. The Sims 4 (5 years later its decent)
4. The Sims 1
You are completely missing the point. It is not about what is only important to daily life for *you*. There are people who live in places where everyone owns a pool. That's an important part of a home. Just like basements are to me. I don't know of any home that doesn't have one where I live.
It's reaching the wider audience. Rocket ships...how many people build space ships in their yards or train to be in NASA without being in the military first? That was probably a feature that could have been held off for a pack and time and resources that could have gone to a more well-rounded feature.
The features I was discussing...what goes into an average neighborhood, transportation, different types of housing, schools, etc. Those are things that all people know about and utilize. Rockets and nightclubs and things like that will only matter to a tiny fraction of the playerbase. Besides that, those venue were very limited to basically socializing. And that part of the game isn't even top notch.
One of the reasons TS2 is still being played today is because of the AI and game mechanics. It has flaws, but those sims seemed real...I was controlling a character who was their own person. Example...and this just happened yesterday...I had a mother who was neglectful of her kids and cheating on her husband. She still had a great relationship with the husband. The social worker came while the husband was at work. I had enough of her to begin with so I just wanted him to end the relationship. I made them keep fighting and arguing and many times he looked up at the camera like why are you making me do this. See...that brings him to life. He is him with his own desires and I am forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do. He isn't just a doll. That's what made these sims so endearing and their socializations so enduring. They didn't get along with everyone and they weren't always happy.
**This was him BTW**
If TS4 had those kind of mechanics...and that is the simulation part, I certainly wouldn't have found the game so boring. I did not buy this game or buy into this franchise to play with dolls. I bought in because it was a simulation game and I expect to see some simulations happening. Everyone is always happy and friendly even after something terrible just happened to them. That's the bore and that doesn't keep everyone entertained for the long haul, as evidenced here by the constant threads asking for more information...or the many other websites with the same.
I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.
Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.
And there are people who lives in places where bars are more common than swimming pools, and places where basements are rather uncommon, that's the whole point, what is important for you, may not be what is important for everybody else. No matter the set of features, there would have been common things not included, because we don't all have the same "common things".
I personally think rocket science could have been kept for GTW, and I would have prefered a sport activity usable by children instead. I'm sure there are people who prefer rocket science over children playing soccer though.
How is going out with your partner or friends not part of the basics of life? To me, it's way more basic than a backyard swimming pool. I was really excited not to have to wait to buy an expansion for my Sims to get to enjoy what to me and pretty much everyone I know is a normal part of everyday life. Going out at the end of a workday or on the weekend makes everyday life great.
How hard was it to code? I dunno, but venue behavior is a lot more than a set of furniture.
As for whether it plays like a game not a dollhouse, that's subjective, not measurable or even predictable. For me, personally, the Sims in this game feel more "real" than in the previous version. I'm actually playing a game; in Sims 3, I was playing watch-the-AI-do-its-own-thing-without-me. The experience of any one game is going to vary from person to person. This one feels like Sims to me; the previous one felt like I was playing a domestic version of Civilization.
Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.
Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.
On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.
You said it wasn't a new feature, which pertaining to the animation system, is inaccurate. Because of multitasking, they went with interactions being mainly data driven and having a set of constraints to determine whether they can be multitasked or not. All that is a new feature.
When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.
Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.
It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.
Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!
You can mod it !
And the people who don't use mods and have always been able to change the venues in the past? One of the biggest complaints when the game first came out was the venue restrictions.
The difference here is that I don't just think of myself and making it fun for me. I think about the playerbase and all of the simmers I have met over the years who love different features than me.