I'm all for avoiding pigpiling on dissenting views, but I'm also not convinced a multinational corporation need whiteknighting against a couple of people venting that their moderating policies seem to be below that of many far smaller forums, who would have banned that account far quicker.
I don't think it's being an armchair expert to say "that account shouldn't have remained active for 12 hours, they need to rethink their moderation."
I certainly haven't been attacked by said troll. However it does not mean i cannot sympathize and show compassion for others that do. Wether a person chooses not to feed the troll and ignore a thread or stand up for others and try to get said person banned off the forums is of their own accord. The first mistake we all make is expecting others to handle things in the same manner as ourselves.
Rather than arguing how one should handle it which i believe is foolish, we should be moved to action. If that action involves you ignoring the troll than be well and have a good day. I don't see a problem with it if you feel unaffected by it or this is the way you wish to handle such a thing. If that action involves you contacting the local authorities and getting others to do so than that is your right because many were threatened on here, and you choose to respond how you want to. If that action involves you getting the ERSB involved because such photo graphs were found in threads and the exchange and this forum is in need of better moderation. I also do believe EA should handle this better and if they can't then they should honestly make parents aware of what is going on. Consider restricting the age limit of the forum to 18 and up instead of 13 and up. If that action involves you making a thread and voicing out your discontent at the company than yes feel free to do so. It alerts other forumers to what is going on, and makes them more aware to better handle what is occuring on the forums. So i certainly do not think such a person is feeding the troll. Not at all i believe they are doing what they feel is the right thing.
At this point arguing what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do is not really the issue here. I don't believe was the intended purpose of the thread.
Now ip banning someone from EA's point of view isn't much because said person could still by bass the ban. Along with banning his registration and codes. However at this point i do think they should be tracing his ip and having the authorities get in contact with him, only if he is from America since he is breaking several laws. If he is over seas I do not know if England has offenses or laws for such a thing. If they do it's a bit harder to prosecute someone over seas. The other method is to have a forum moderator monitor the threads and exchange and players push the report button right away to help Guru's get him out the forums fast enough. If that means giving him an account ban every time then so be it. However they really should be hiring forum moderators and not having their Dev' guru's monitor the threads themselves.
I as a company would make a statement at the very least notifying players what they can do to help. If they feel you shouldn't engage him than just don't. Instead do what they ask quickly report the individual and be cautious of your friends request. If you do not know who the individual is do not accept the request. Players can help the gurus as well and this is the nice way of doing it. For parents like me for the time being do not let you children sit at the computer with you while you are scrolling through the forums. Do not let them on the forums either til EA resolves such a situation or in the very least he goes quiet. I would also be keeping them off the exchange. Parents and players if 12 hours pass and he is still posting contact customerservice right away, they i believe can also remove the content and ban such person.
I will boil down my interpretation of what *I* think you are saying into a short paragraph, *if* I can:
"Shut up. Don't respond to the troll. Report the offensive images. Move on. Sit back and let the "professionals" at EA handle this. Stop being over dramatic and stop feeding the troll."
This is exactly what you're saying. And you're missing the point of this entire thread with your condescending and patronizing attitude.
1. This *isn't* the entire internet we're talking about here. This is the Sims 3 website. What goes on in other forums is irrelevant. They can handle their trolls their way, and I'm *sure* that other websites have more effective moderation than this one. So knock it off with "this is the internet, there are worse trolls out there", because it is irrelevant to what happens on *this* website, m'kay?
(Yes, I am being rude and condescending right back, so sue me or report me, your choice Joolster.)
2. What this all boils down to is lack of serious moderation on EA's part. *You* said, and I quote:
I'm sure EA would rather do other things than delete files, clean up forums and deal with reports and petitions and overall perform damagecontrol caused by sesert.
You know, you're absolutely right. EA *would* rather do other things that moderate the forum that it uses to advertise their products. In fact they *are* doing other things, such as releasing a Katy Perry collector's edition of Showtime. And, obviously, for *you* that is *far more important* than dealing with a problem that you *claim* is costing them money. But, I see no proof from you that dear old sesert is costing them money.
So, link, or it's not true.
So, I say again to AE, BlueBellFlora and all of those who are fighting the good fight:
Never give up, never surrender.
Hold EA's feet to the fire.
Go to the media, especially Fox cable news. They're the ones who regularly highlight family issues, and this *is* a family issue. Make EA answer for this and explain *why* it's left its forums so unmoderated, and transferred all power to Customer Service, when it's the mods and SimGuru's who are on the ground that need to be able to handle this.
Come on, EA, man up! You have plenty of well-qualified volunteers to help you handle these kinds of situations. It worked on the Sims 2 BBS, and it's working over at EAUK's website. Why not put your money into *this* website and establish a serious moderator presence? Or is it as Joolster maintains? That you have far better things to do with your time than take care of a troll like sesert?
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
Instead do what they ask quickly report the individual and be cautious of your friends request. If you do not know who the individual is do not accept the request. Players can help the gurus as well and this is the nice way of doing it. For parents like me for the time being do not let you children sit at the computer with you while you are scrolling through the forums. Do not let them on the forums either til EA resolves such a situation or in the very least he goes quiet. I would also be keeping them off the exchange. Parents and players if 12 hours pass and he is still posting contact customerservice right away, they i believe can also remove the content and ban such person.
Except that we do have a report button. A lot of us did use it, some did contact customer service, however, my biggest concern and complaint over this issue is that even after reporting most of the posts were left up for over FIVE hours on Sunday evening. All the while he continued to make new posts, uploads and attacks on people's pages. (For those that say, just leave then: I wasn't there the entire time, I saw some things and was angered that reporting was doing nothing at all so I did leave and came back 5 hours later to find that NOTHING had changed yet, so again I left).
I agree it's up to us to be vigilant on who we "friend", however, as far as the forums go and the exchange goes, that should not have been allowed to continue for as long as it did all from the same account (his user name remained unchanged for the duration from what I saw). After enough reports, a ban should be auto-issued, at least from posting and uploading until such a time as a moderator can look into the issue and remove the offending items or re-instate them as the case may be. Sure he could make more accounts, but at the very least it could've slowed him down. Other smaller websites can handle this much more effectively and I would expect the same and even better from a company as large as EA.
Sims 2 bbs, that guy wouldn't have lasted an hour.
Heck, this thread wouldn't last an hour.
Moderators were pulled from the community (I know because I lived with one) and given their positions based on their knowledge and helpful attitudes. They took this job very seriously mind you. Almost to the point of annoyance...
Truthfully, I'd much rather be annoyed by moderators than trolls. This place is drawing them in because they're learning that they won't be touched...and they're right. We can't touch them. Now if some of us had moderator functions, we could touch them all day and EA wouldn't have to have their feet stuck in the fire. It never costs them anything.
I dunno what the deal is. Maybe they actually want a Mature rating and don't know how to ask for it.
Instead do what they ask quickly report the individual and be cautious of your friends request. If you do not know who the individual is do not accept the request. Players can help the gurus as well and this is the nice way of doing it. For parents like me for the time being do not let you children sit at the computer with you while you are scrolling through the forums. Do not let them on the forums either til EA resolves such a situation or in the very least he goes quiet. I would also be keeping them off the exchange. Parents and players if 12 hours pass and he is still posting contact customerservice right away, they i believe can also remove the content and ban such person.
Except that we do have a report button. A lot of us did use it, some did contact customer service, however, my biggest concern and complaint over this issue is that even after reporting most of the posts were left up for over FIVE hours on Sunday evening. All the while he continued to make new posts, uploads and attacks on people's pages. (For those that say, just leave then: I wasn't there the entire time, I saw some things and was angered that reporting was doing nothing at all so I did leave and came back 5 hours later to find that NOTHING had changed yet, so again I left).
I agree it's up to us to be vigilant on who we "friend", however, as far as the forums go and the exchange goes, that should not have been allowed to continue for as long as it did all from the same account (his user name remained unchanged for the duration from what I saw). After enough reports, a ban should be auto-issued, at least from posting and uploading until such a time as a moderator can look into the issue and remove the offending items or re-instate them as the case may be. Sure he could make more accounts, but at the very least it could've slowed him down. Other smaller websites can handle this much more effectively and I would expect the same and even better from a company as large as EA.
I don't think we should hand powers into players to ban people as quite a few players can readily abuse such a system. Though i am aware of how long he was on here. Which is why i feel like Jarsie this should be something bought to both the ERSB's attention and to a News Media. However i was also saying that players can do a little more than that and keep reporting such a person till action is done. Which i know many people were doing. EA will surely not like to be known as a gaming industry that condones such images on a underage site. They certainly better consider hiring some forum moderators for all hours of the day to watch the forums and exchange. I'd be hiring in the very least a pair on each shift, 3rd, 2nd, 1st. There is no reason that such a person can post with in a 12 hours span and not receive a boot and have the pictures and what not removed.
NONE whatsoever. Nothing is more important than safety, especially when it comes to customers so they need to rethink their position and fast in case this happens again. I certainly think it's wrong that such a thing occured period. This forum has had very little moderation from opening and i am not sure why it has been this way.
BTW If anyone feels that moderating the forums would cost them unneccessary money i would like to point out that EA The Sims 3 series has already be in a steady decline of sales. Now they have a new game that promotes social aspects which is already widely destested and is attached to this forum. A feature that is being promoted to kids and teens for use, and said to be secure and safe. (Though i believe that as much as i believe pigs can fly) They would shoot themselves in the foot if they promote the simport feature to be as safe as their forums and website and they have this guy posting rated x images and making death threats on the forums. The sales for that expansion would plummit especially if the media got wind of it. So i believe having more moderators on here would save them in the long run not cost them more. Especially given the circumstances.
I don't think we should hand powers into players to ban people as quite a few players can readily abuse such a system.
I agree with this to a point. The number could be rather large though, like a set number of reports within a limited time frame could block the poster I suppose rather than ban. I probably did use a too harsh of a word there. I don't think the majority of simmers report just anything either though.
I do realize this could be abused, however, if it was something like 20 reports within a 5-10 minute time frame to block a poster, I don't think that would be unreasonable, meanwhile, limiting the numbers of times a user could report a post to one time per post per user to stop the one person from over reporting people for nothing other than they feel like it.
I just wanna add that there were a couple threads that BluebellFlora found that still had adult images from MAY OF 2011. Know when they were FINALLY removed? The same day all the pictures from just this past weekend were removed.
Now, wanna know how the stuff posted this past weekend was even brought to anyone's attention to be removed SO quickly compared to the pictures from May? Because myself as well as several other simmers (TnT_Terry listed a lot of them in a post before) were VERY active in removing this guy. I reported to the Better Business Bureau (others may have done the same, I just don't know of anyone personally), several of us reported to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (which is run/monitored by the FBI), several of us reported to our local/national news outlets, several of us reported to the Shorty Awards as well as some of EA's celebrity endorser's management teams, several of us reported to major gaming magazines/news stations, and several of us even got on the phone/live chat with EA more than once (8 times for me, not sure about others). So, yeah, maybe we took took it a little far and "overreacted". But guess what? Something's ACTUALLY getting done this time.
Is it gonna completely remove the problem? Of course not. But ya know what's happening now? They're actually monitoring this guy. They have a list of accounts they are not to give new codes to and/or reactivate. Like I said, there's no guarantees. But if you don't agree with our method of handling it, fine. But you can't argue and say that it's not worth it because for once they're actually taking charge of this situation. If none of this had been done, I guarantee those photos from May would still be there, as well as all the photos from this past weekend.
Anavastia, since you were never a part of the Sims 2 BBS, you're not familiar with the way their moderation system worked, so here's a brief explanation:
SimMasters were volunteers that EA selected *within* the community, but they were not randomly selected, and they did have to meet certain standards, such as:
They had to be over 18.
They could not have any disciplinary action on their record, especially no bans.
They had to be *asked* by EA; if anyone asked to be a moderator, they were automatically disqualified.
These were unpaid volunteers who willingly agreed to give up their free time to monitor the forums, and did a d/a/m/n fine job of it too. In all the years that I posted over on the TS2 BBS, not once was there ever a case of moderator abuse...except maybe one, and that moderator was removed, but that was close to the end of EA's sudden change of policy where they shifted all the powers to the Customer Service desk...in preperation for this website, I believe.
Well, you've seen how well *that* has worked out. EA is perfectly capable of selecting the right kind of players to be their moderators, just as it is perfectly capable of giving the SimGurus more power and not tying their hands. EA doesn't have to hire anybody...it just needs a couple more SimGurus to be active on the forums at various times, including weekends (yeah, EA, paying a little time and a half won't hurt you in the long run). AND it needs the willing participation of volunteers from the community who are thoroughly vetted and held to a higher standard to whip this BBS back into shape. It worked with the Sims 2 BBS, it's working over at EAUK, it certainly should be working here.
In short, I disagree with your point that players shouldn't be given the power to moderate these forums effectively. As long as EA followed the guidelines it established under the SimMaster program, there should be no abuse of power...because these wouldn't be ordinary players.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
By EA UK, do you mean the one or two special UK boards on this site or other EA games with forums? Just because I'm from the UK, and all the non-UK specific boards are just the same English language ones everyone gets - I haven't spent enough time on the UK sections to know what goes on there.
Anavastia, since you were never a part of the Sims 2 BBS, you're not familiar with the way their moderation system worked, so here's a brief explanation:
SimMasters were volunteers that EA selected *within* the community, but they were not randomly selected, and they did have to meet certain standards, such as:
They had to be over 18.
They could not have any disciplinary action on their record, especially no bans.
They had to be *asked* by EA; if anyone asked to be a moderator, they were automatically disqualified.
These were unpaid volunteers who willingly agreed to give up their free time to monitor the forums, and did a d/a/m/n fine job of it too. In all the years that I posted over on the TS2 BBS, not once was there ever a case of moderator abuse...except maybe one, and that moderator was removed, but that was close to the end of EA's sudden change of policy where they shifted all the powers to the Customer Service desk...in preperation for this website, I believe.
Well, you've seen how well *that* has worked out. EA is perfectly capable of selecting the right kind of players to be their moderators, just as it is perfectly capable of giving the SimGurus more power and not tying their hands. EA doesn't have to hire anybody...it just needs a couple more SimGurus to be active on the forums at various times, including weekends (yeah, EA, paying a little time and a half won't hurt you in the long run). AND it needs the willing participation of volunteers from the community who are thoroughly vetted and held to a higher standard to whip this BBS back into shape. It worked with the Sims 2 BBS, it's working over at EAUK, it certainly should be working here.
In short, I disagree with your point that players shouldn't be given the power to moderate these forums effectively. As long as EA followed the guidelines it established under the SimMaster program, there should be no abuse of power...because these wouldn't be ordinary players.
I was replying to camkat's suggestion of allowing everyone on the forums the right to use the report button to ban people. As far as forum moderators from responsible players majority of sites do this and it works out great. Gpotato especially does this. They aren't allowed to perma ban people but they can silence the user until the game masters gives him perma band. That way it keeps the site clean.
So getting a volunteer moderator i am not opposed to. However i don't feel a forum full of teens and etc should be allowed to just drop a report because they don't like a thread and after 20 reports that person is banned or silenced. Especially when that can easily be used against someone that a group of people doesn't like at all. Though honestly i feel the people they pull from the community should get some type of reward wether it's free things from the store or whatever since moderating a the forums and the exchange is quite a chore.
I just wanna add that there were a couple threads that BluebellFlora found that still had adult images from MAY OF 2011. Know when they were FINALLY removed? The same day all the pictures from just this past weekend were removed.
Now, wanna know how the stuff posted this past weekend was even brought to anyone's attention to be removed SO quickly compared to the pictures from May? Because myself as well as several other simmers (TnT_Terry listed a lot of them in a post before) were VERY active in removing this guy. I reported to the Better Business Bureau (others may have done the same, I just don't know of anyone personally), several of us reported to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (which is run/monitored by the FBI), several of us reported to our local/national news outlets, several of us reported to the Shorty Awards as well as some of EA's celebrity endorser's management teams, several of us reported to major gaming magazines/news stations, and several of us even got on the phone/live chat with EA more than once (8 times for me, not sure about others). So, yeah, maybe we took took it a little far and "overreacted". But guess what? Something's ACTUALLY getting done this time.
Is it gonna completely remove the problem? Of course not. But ya know what's happening now? They're actually monitoring this guy. They have a list of accounts they are not to give new codes to and/or reactivate. Like I said, there's no guarantees. But if you don't agree with our method of handling it, fine. But you can't argue and say that it's not worth it because for once they're actually taking charge of this situation. If none of this had been done, I guarantee those photos from May would still be there, as well as all the photos from this past weekend.
I don't feel you did the wrong thing at all. Honestly EA had it coming because of how out of control these forums have gotten most of the time it's been the players struggling to keep some sort of order. I always applaud people who do something because i feel it is much better than do nothing. Though i won't frown on someone who decides to walk away that is your choice. However i don't think if you choose to walk away you have the right to come and criticize the person who stopped and helped.
I am can guarantee if nothing had been done the guy would just keep coming back and the same things would occur. In the end i feel you guys did EA a service, as they could end up in serious trouble eventually.
I just wanna add that there were a couple threads that BluebellFlora found that still had adult images from MAY OF 2011. Know when they were FINALLY removed? The same day all the pictures from just this past weekend were removed.
Now, wanna know how the stuff posted this past weekend was even brought to anyone's attention to be removed SO quickly compared to the pictures from May? Because myself as well as several other simmers (TnT_Terry listed a lot of them in a post before) were VERY active in removing this guy. I reported to the Better Business Bureau (others may have done the same, I just don't know of anyone personally), several of us reported to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (which is run/monitored by the FBI), several of us reported to our local/national news outlets, several of us reported to the Shorty Awards as well as some of EA's celebrity endorser's management teams, several of us reported to major gaming magazines/news stations, and several of us even got on the phone/live chat with EA more than once (8 times for me, not sure about others). So, yeah, maybe we took took it a little far and "overreacted". But guess what? Something's ACTUALLY getting done this time.
Is it gonna completely remove the problem? Of course not. But ya know what's happening now? They're actually monitoring this guy. They have a list of accounts they are not to give new codes to and/or reactivate. Like I said, there's no guarantees. But if you don't agree with our method of handling it, fine. But you can't argue and say that it's not worth it because for once they're actually taking charge of this situation. If none of this had been done, I guarantee those photos from May would still be there, as well as all the photos from this past weekend.
I don't feel you did the wrong thing at all. Honestly EA had it coming because of how out of control these forums have gotten most of the time it's been the players struggling to keep some sort of order. I always applaud people who do something because i feel it is much better than do nothing. Though i won't frown on someone who decides to walk away that is your choice. However i don't think if you choose to walk away you have the right to come and criticize the person who stopped and helped.
I am can guarantee if nothing had been done the guy would just keep coming back and the same things would occur. In the end i feel you guys did EA a service, as they could end up in serious trouble eventually.
Exactly, and thank you. I know this is a public forum and people have the right to offer their opinions on any matter that's discussed. And if you disagree with our methods of handling the situation, that's completely your choice. But in this particular case, if you think that ignoring this person is the better option, then there really is no need for you to get involved in this discussion. Getting involved in a discussion about a trolling situation only to tell us to ignore the trolling situation is kind of silly. (And just for the record, Anavastia, I'm not saying at all that that's what you were doing. I was referring to other people. )
By EA UK, do you mean the one or two special UK boards on this site or other EA games with forums? Just because I'm from the UK, and all the non-UK specific boards are just the same English language ones everyone gets - I haven't spent enough time on the UK sections to know what goes on there.
This is the website I am referring to. I am also a member there:
I was replying to camkat's suggestion of allowing everyone on the forums the right to use the report button to ban people. As far as forum moderators from responsible players majority of sites do this and it works out great. Gpotato especially does this. They aren't allowed to perma ban people but they can silence the user until the game masters gives him perma band. That way it keeps the site clean.
So getting a volunteer moderator i am not opposed to. However i don't feel a forum full of teens and etc should be allowed to just drop a report because they don't like a thread and after 20 reports that person is banned or silenced. Especially when that can easily be used against someone that a group of people doesn't like at all. Though honestly i feel the people they pull from the community should get some type of reward wether it's free things from the store or whatever since moderating a the forums and the exchange is quite a chore.
Ah, okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. (I seem to be doing a lot of apologizing today). Yes, if you put it *that* way, I'd be opposed to that type of system as well, but the one I have been proposing is based off the Sims 2 BBS SimMaster Program which was very effective. In fact, most of the SM's were over 21 and very responsible. No reason why they couldn't do the same here as well.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
I was replying to camkat's suggestion of allowing everyone on the forums the right to use the report button to ban people.
Yeah, and I did word it wrong and neglected to explain fully what I meant by what I said.
I did explain it later though, and I still don't see a problem with the report button functioning as a temporary block posting feature if a user receives enough reports within a short time frame. :?
Ultimately, as Jarsie suggested, I agree the best way would be to hire more Gurus and give them a little more power than they have currently, but barring that, they could still reasonably implement what I've suggested. I seem to remember TS2 BBS "hiding" posts reported multiple times until a Maxoid could remove or "un-hide" it. Unless what I remember was actually the SimMasters doing the hiding. At any rate, those SimMasters and Maxoids were on the forums and active daily, you saw them literally all over the place interacting with fans and evidence of them doing their jobs. Much more than you ever see a Guru here. EA would do well to look at how they handled the BBS of TS2 and put more of that type of moderation in place.
I will boil down my interpretation of what *I* think you are saying into a short paragraph, *if* I can:
"Shut up. Don't respond to the troll. Report the offensive images. Move on. Sit back and let the "professionals" at EA handle this. Stop being over dramatic and stop feeding the troll."
This is exactly what you're saying. And you're missing the point of this entire thread with your condescending and patronizing attitude.
1. This *isn't* the entire internet we're talking about here. This is the Sims 3 website. What goes on in other forums is irrelevant. They can handle their trolls their way, and I'm *sure* that other websites have more effective moderation than this one. So knock it off with "this is the internet, there are worse trolls out there", because it is irrelevant to what happens on *this* website, m'kay?
(Yes, I am being rude and condescending right back, so sue me or report me, your choice Joolster.)
2. What this all boils down to is lack of serious moderation on EA's part. *You* said, and I quote:
I'm sure EA would rather do other things than delete files, clean up forums and deal with reports and petitions and overall perform damagecontrol caused by sesert.
You know, you're absolutely right. EA *would* rather do other things that moderate the forum that it uses to advertise their products. In fact they *are* doing other things, such as releasing a Katy Perry collector's edition of Showtime. And, obviously, for *you* that is *far more important* than dealing with a problem that you *claim* is costing them money. But, I see no proof from you that dear old sesert is costing them money.
So, link, or it's not true.
So, I say again to AE, BlueBellFlora and all of those who are fighting the good fight:
Never give up, never surrender.
Hold EA's feet to the fire.
Go to the media, especially Fox cable news. They're the ones who regularly highlight family issues, and this *is* a family issue. Make EA answer for this and explain *why* it's left its forums so unmoderated, and transferred all power to Customer Service, when it's the mods and SimGuru's who are on the ground that need to be able to handle this.
Come on, EA, man up! You have plenty of well-qualified volunteers to help you handle these kinds of situations. It worked on the Sims 2 BBS, and it's working over at EAUK's website. Why not put your money into *this* website and establish a serious moderator presence? Or is it as Joolster maintains? That you have far better things to do with your time than take care of a troll like sesert?
BRAVO my dear friend....take a bow, simply well said
a_niles06 said:
I just wanna add that there were a couple threads that BluebellFlora found that still had adult images from MAY OF 2011. Know when they were FINALLY removed? The same day all the pictures from just this past weekend were removed.
Now, wanna know how the stuff posted this past weekend was even brought to anyone's attention to be removed SO quickly compared to the pictures from May? Because myself as well as several other simmers (TnT_Terry listed a lot of them in a post before) were VERY active in removing this guy. I reported to the Better Business Bureau (others may have done the same, I just don't know of anyone personally), several of us reported to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (which is run/monitored by the FBI), several of us reported to our local/national news outlets, several of us reported to the Shorty Awards as well as some of EA's celebrity endorser's management teams, several of us reported to major gaming magazines/news stations, and several of us even got on the phone/live chat with EA more than once (8 times for me, not sure about others). So, yeah, maybe we took took it a little far and "overreacted". But guess what? Something's ACTUALLY getting done this time.
Is it gonna completely remove the problem? Of course not. But ya know what's happening now? They're actually monitoring this guy. They have a list of accounts they are not to give new codes to and/or reactivate. Like I said, there's no guarantees. But if you don't agree with our method of handling it, fine. But you can't argue and say that it's not worth it because for once they're actually taking charge of this situation. If none of this had been done, I guarantee those photos from May would still be there, as well as all the photos from this past weekend.
Thank you hon, anyone with half a mind coming in here, should rightfully be thanking all of us for doing all we have done to stop this madness, not ridiculing, accusing, arguing and complaining. If you chose to walk away that was and is your choice, but simply put, if it wasn't for those of us who chose to stand up and do something, we would all still be smack in the center of continuous trolling and trash by this madman! So in short, this thread was created to let everyone know what is being done on all fronts and for those to report any new or missed accounts made by this unmentionable psycho, not a place to come trash those willing to use their free-time to try to protect themselves and everyone else here in the community! So please end this uninformed and senseless chatter and get back to either helping or walk away period!
I own every basegame, EP, GP, SP and kits for all sims, ie.., sims 1, 2, 3 and 4
I am a sims 3 Store Owner Thanks to all my Amazing friends here, and I do own all store stuff from sims 2 as well!
I'm actually a moderator on another forum and the way that forum is set up makes it harder for trolls to access it. Last night though, I actually thought to myself "It's a shame that trolls would have difficulty accessing these forums. Otherwise we'd be able to show EA how to moderate a forum."
I also would hope that the "chat feature" that they plan to implement would be to allow Simmers to log into an *open* chat feature that EA *can* moderate, instead of a private 1-on-1 chat. Therein lies the danger. One-on-one chats can't be monitored unless one of the chatters requests it, and even then EA may not have enough customer reps to handle the traffic.
EA would be wise to invest in having staff to moderate the chats as well as the forums.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
In the UK the game is rated 12+, Yet they be exposed to this... Ugh. I Myself am twelve years old but I am mature enough to side with you guys and put a stop to this.
According to someone who posted in Giting, the live chat people siad that all of his current accounts had been banned for Extreme Content Abuse and they were tracking his IPs and banning the accounts as they come.
Personally, I'm not so sure whether to believe this. All of the pages seem to be hidden, and I haven't had any new requests from him, but based on EA's record with this, I am still unsure.
According to someone who posted in Giting, the live chat people siad that all of his current accounts had been banned for Extreme Content Abuse and they were tracking his IPs and banning the accounts as they come.
Personally, I'm not so sure whether to believe this. All of the pages seem to be hidden, and I haven't had any new requests from him, but based on EA's record with this, I am still unsure.
Thats all well and good, but that is a one-line response in towards the end of a huge thread in a category (Technical) it doesn't belong in, in the first place! There should have been something said at the very top of the Forum subject pages under the Welcome to the Forums thread at the very least!!!! Not your fault Callum, jsut very angry that EA has the audacity to ask us to vote for them for an award and then offer a BRIBE to get people to do it, when they do NOT deserve said award. Not for their shoddy bug filled game, and also not for the fact that this happened in the first place. I am just venting is all! I signed on today to that and looked at the hubby, and said "look at this, can you believe the nerve?" :shock:
In the UK the game is rated 12+, Yet they be exposed to this... Ugh. I Myself am twelve years old but I am mature enough to side with you guys and put a stop to this.
Welcome dear, just be careful around here! And thank you! I can't believe a 12+ year old has more reasoning, then someone who keeps coming to this thread and rant about how wrong we all are.
Oh but wait, said person, will just say it's her opinion and I am angry because she doesn't agree. Well dear, it is not that, it is the fact that you said your piece, why don't YOU let it go. There are plenty of other threads to give "your opinion" to. Just saying...
Comments
I don't think it's being an armchair expert to say "that account shouldn't have remained active for 12 hours, they need to rethink their moderation."
Rather than arguing how one should handle it which i believe is foolish, we should be moved to action. If that action involves you ignoring the troll than be well and have a good day. I don't see a problem with it if you feel unaffected by it or this is the way you wish to handle such a thing. If that action involves you contacting the local authorities and getting others to do so than that is your right because many were threatened on here, and you choose to respond how you want to. If that action involves you getting the ERSB involved because such photo graphs were found in threads and the exchange and this forum is in need of better moderation. I also do believe EA should handle this better and if they can't then they should honestly make parents aware of what is going on. Consider restricting the age limit of the forum to 18 and up instead of 13 and up. If that action involves you making a thread and voicing out your discontent at the company than yes feel free to do so. It alerts other forumers to what is going on, and makes them more aware to better handle what is occuring on the forums. So i certainly do not think such a person is feeding the troll. Not at all i believe they are doing what they feel is the right thing.
At this point arguing what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do is not really the issue here. I don't believe was the intended purpose of the thread.
Now ip banning someone from EA's point of view isn't much because said person could still by bass the ban. Along with banning his registration and codes. However at this point i do think they should be tracing his ip and having the authorities get in contact with him, only if he is from America since he is breaking several laws. If he is over seas I do not know if England has offenses or laws for such a thing. If they do it's a bit harder to prosecute someone over seas. The other method is to have a forum moderator monitor the threads and exchange and players push the report button right away to help Guru's get him out the forums fast enough. If that means giving him an account ban every time then so be it. However they really should be hiring forum moderators and not having their Dev' guru's monitor the threads themselves.
I as a company would make a statement at the very least notifying players what they can do to help. If they feel you shouldn't engage him than just don't. Instead do what they ask quickly report the individual and be cautious of your friends request. If you do not know who the individual is do not accept the request. Players can help the gurus as well and this is the nice way of doing it. For parents like me for the time being do not let you children sit at the computer with you while you are scrolling through the forums. Do not let them on the forums either til EA resolves such a situation or in the very least he goes quiet. I would also be keeping them off the exchange. Parents and players if 12 hours pass and he is still posting contact customerservice right away, they i believe can also remove the content and ban such person.
I will boil down my interpretation of what *I* think you are saying into a short paragraph, *if* I can:
"Shut up. Don't respond to the troll. Report the offensive images. Move on. Sit back and let the "professionals" at EA handle this. Stop being over dramatic and stop feeding the troll."
This is exactly what you're saying. And you're missing the point of this entire thread with your condescending and patronizing attitude.
1. This *isn't* the entire internet we're talking about here. This is the Sims 3 website. What goes on in other forums is irrelevant. They can handle their trolls their way, and I'm *sure* that other websites have more effective moderation than this one. So knock it off with "this is the internet, there are worse trolls out there", because it is irrelevant to what happens on *this* website, m'kay?
(Yes, I am being rude and condescending right back, so sue me or report me, your choice Joolster.)
2. What this all boils down to is lack of serious moderation on EA's part. *You* said, and I quote:
I'm sure EA would rather do other things than delete files, clean up forums and deal with reports and petitions and overall perform damagecontrol caused by sesert.
You know, you're absolutely right. EA *would* rather do other things that moderate the forum that it uses to advertise their products. In fact they *are* doing other things, such as releasing a Katy Perry collector's edition of Showtime. And, obviously, for *you* that is *far more important* than dealing with a problem that you *claim* is costing them money. But, I see no proof from you that dear old sesert is costing them money.
So, link, or it's not true.
So, I say again to AE, BlueBellFlora and all of those who are fighting the good fight:
Never give up, never surrender.
Hold EA's feet to the fire.
Go to the media, especially Fox cable news. They're the ones who regularly highlight family issues, and this *is* a family issue. Make EA answer for this and explain *why* it's left its forums so unmoderated, and transferred all power to Customer Service, when it's the mods and SimGuru's who are on the ground that need to be able to handle this.
Come on, EA, man up! You have plenty of well-qualified volunteers to help you handle these kinds of situations. It worked on the Sims 2 BBS, and it's working over at EAUK's website. Why not put your money into *this* website and establish a serious moderator presence? Or is it as Joolster maintains? That you have far better things to do with your time than take care of a troll like sesert?
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
Except that we do have a report button. A lot of us did use it, some did contact customer service, however, my biggest concern and complaint over this issue is that even after reporting most of the posts were left up for over FIVE hours on Sunday evening. All the while he continued to make new posts, uploads and attacks on people's pages. (For those that say, just leave then: I wasn't there the entire time, I saw some things and was angered that reporting was doing nothing at all so I did leave and came back 5 hours later to find that NOTHING had changed yet, so again I left).
I agree it's up to us to be vigilant on who we "friend", however, as far as the forums go and the exchange goes, that should not have been allowed to continue for as long as it did all from the same account (his user name remained unchanged for the duration from what I saw). After enough reports, a ban should be auto-issued, at least from posting and uploading until such a time as a moderator can look into the issue and remove the offending items or re-instate them as the case may be. Sure he could make more accounts, but at the very least it could've slowed him down. Other smaller websites can handle this much more effectively and I would expect the same and even better from a company as large as EA.
Heck, this thread wouldn't last an hour.
Moderators were pulled from the community (I know because I lived with one) and given their positions based on their knowledge and helpful attitudes. They took this job very seriously mind you. Almost to the point of annoyance...
Truthfully, I'd much rather be annoyed by moderators than trolls. This place is drawing them in because they're learning that they won't be touched...and they're right. We can't touch them. Now if some of us had moderator functions, we could touch them all day and EA wouldn't have to have their feet stuck in the fire. It never costs them anything.
I dunno what the deal is. Maybe they actually want a Mature rating and don't know how to ask for it.
I don't think we should hand powers into players to ban people as quite a few players can readily abuse such a system. Though i am aware of how long he was on here. Which is why i feel like Jarsie this should be something bought to both the ERSB's attention and to a News Media. However i was also saying that players can do a little more than that and keep reporting such a person till action is done. Which i know many people were doing. EA will surely not like to be known as a gaming industry that condones such images on a underage site. They certainly better consider hiring some forum moderators for all hours of the day to watch the forums and exchange. I'd be hiring in the very least a pair on each shift, 3rd, 2nd, 1st. There is no reason that such a person can post with in a 12 hours span and not receive a boot and have the pictures and what not removed.
NONE whatsoever. Nothing is more important than safety, especially when it comes to customers so they need to rethink their position and fast in case this happens again. I certainly think it's wrong that such a thing occured period. This forum has had very little moderation from opening and i am not sure why it has been this way.
BTW If anyone feels that moderating the forums would cost them unneccessary money i would like to point out that EA The Sims 3 series has already be in a steady decline of sales. Now they have a new game that promotes social aspects which is already widely destested and is attached to this forum. A feature that is being promoted to kids and teens for use, and said to be secure and safe. (Though i believe that as much as i believe pigs can fly) They would shoot themselves in the foot if they promote the simport feature to be as safe as their forums and website and they have this guy posting rated x images and making death threats on the forums. The sales for that expansion would plummit especially if the media got wind of it. So i believe having more moderators on here would save them in the long run not cost them more. Especially given the circumstances.
I agree with this to a point. The number could be rather large though, like a set number of reports within a limited time frame could block the poster I suppose rather than ban. I probably did use a too harsh of a word there. I don't think the majority of simmers report just anything either though.
I do realize this could be abused, however, if it was something like 20 reports within a 5-10 minute time frame to block a poster, I don't think that would be unreasonable, meanwhile, limiting the numbers of times a user could report a post to one time per post per user to stop the one person from over reporting people for nothing other than they feel like it.
Now, wanna know how the stuff posted this past weekend was even brought to anyone's attention to be removed SO quickly compared to the pictures from May? Because myself as well as several other simmers (TnT_Terry listed a lot of them in a post before) were VERY active in removing this guy. I reported to the Better Business Bureau (others may have done the same, I just don't know of anyone personally), several of us reported to the Internet Crime Complaint Center (which is run/monitored by the FBI), several of us reported to our local/national news outlets, several of us reported to the Shorty Awards as well as some of EA's celebrity endorser's management teams, several of us reported to major gaming magazines/news stations, and several of us even got on the phone/live chat with EA more than once (8 times for me, not sure about others). So, yeah, maybe we took took it a little far and "overreacted". But guess what? Something's ACTUALLY getting done this time.
Is it gonna completely remove the problem? Of course not. But ya know what's happening now? They're actually monitoring this guy. They have a list of accounts they are not to give new codes to and/or reactivate. Like I said, there's no guarantees. But if you don't agree with our method of handling it, fine. But you can't argue and say that it's not worth it because for once they're actually taking charge of this situation. If none of this had been done, I guarantee those photos from May would still be there, as well as all the photos from this past weekend.
Heart, LittleV
SimMasters were volunteers that EA selected *within* the community, but they were not randomly selected, and they did have to meet certain standards, such as:
They had to be over 18.
They could not have any disciplinary action on their record, especially no bans.
They had to be *asked* by EA; if anyone asked to be a moderator, they were automatically disqualified.
These were unpaid volunteers who willingly agreed to give up their free time to monitor the forums, and did a d/a/m/n fine job of it too. In all the years that I posted over on the TS2 BBS, not once was there ever a case of moderator abuse...except maybe one, and that moderator was removed, but that was close to the end of EA's sudden change of policy where they shifted all the powers to the Customer Service desk...in preperation for this website, I believe.
Well, you've seen how well *that* has worked out. EA is perfectly capable of selecting the right kind of players to be their moderators, just as it is perfectly capable of giving the SimGurus more power and not tying their hands. EA doesn't have to hire anybody...it just needs a couple more SimGurus to be active on the forums at various times, including weekends (yeah, EA, paying a little time and a half won't hurt you in the long run). AND it needs the willing participation of volunteers from the community who are thoroughly vetted and held to a higher standard to whip this BBS back into shape. It worked with the Sims 2 BBS, it's working over at EAUK, it certainly should be working here.
In short, I disagree with your point that players shouldn't be given the power to moderate these forums effectively. As long as EA followed the guidelines it established under the SimMaster program, there should be no abuse of power...because these wouldn't be ordinary players.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
I was replying to camkat's suggestion of allowing everyone on the forums the right to use the report button to ban people. As far as forum moderators from responsible players majority of sites do this and it works out great. Gpotato especially does this. They aren't allowed to perma ban people but they can silence the user until the game masters gives him perma band. That way it keeps the site clean.
So getting a volunteer moderator i am not opposed to. However i don't feel a forum full of teens and etc should be allowed to just drop a report because they don't like a thread and after 20 reports that person is banned or silenced. Especially when that can easily be used against someone that a group of people doesn't like at all. Though honestly i feel the people they pull from the community should get some type of reward wether it's free things from the store or whatever since moderating a the forums and the exchange is quite a chore.
I don't feel you did the wrong thing at all. Honestly EA had it coming because of how out of control these forums have gotten most of the time it's been the players struggling to keep some sort of order. I always applaud people who do something because i feel it is much better than do nothing. Though i won't frown on someone who decides to walk away that is your choice. However i don't think if you choose to walk away you have the right to come and criticize the person who stopped and helped.
I am can guarantee if nothing had been done the guy would just keep coming back and the same things would occur. In the end i feel you guys did EA a service, as they could end up in serious trouble eventually.
Exactly, and thank you. I know this is a public forum and people have the right to offer their opinions on any matter that's discussed. And if you disagree with our methods of handling the situation, that's completely your choice. But in this particular case, if you think that ignoring this person is the better option, then there really is no need for you to get involved in this discussion. Getting involved in a discussion about a trolling situation only to tell us to ignore the trolling situation is kind of silly. (And just for the record, Anavastia, I'm not saying at all that that's what you were doing. I was referring to other people.
This is the website I am referring to. I am also a member there:
http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/sims-series/
They have a strong moderator pressence.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
Ah, okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. (I seem to be doing a lot of apologizing today). Yes, if you put it *that* way, I'd be opposed to that type of system as well, but the one I have been proposing is based off the Sims 2 BBS SimMaster Program which was very effective. In fact, most of the SM's were over 21 and very responsible. No reason why they couldn't do the same here as well.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
Yeah, and I did word it wrong and neglected to explain fully what I meant by what I said.
I did explain it later though, and I still don't see a problem with the report button functioning as a temporary block posting feature if a user receives enough reports within a short time frame. :?
Ultimately, as Jarsie suggested, I agree the best way would be to hire more Gurus and give them a little more power than they have currently, but barring that, they could still reasonably implement what I've suggested. I seem to remember TS2 BBS "hiding" posts reported multiple times until a Maxoid could remove or "un-hide" it. Unless what I remember was actually the SimMasters doing the hiding. At any rate, those SimMasters and Maxoids were on the forums and active daily, you saw them literally all over the place interacting with fans and evidence of them doing their jobs. Much more than you ever see a Guru here. EA would do well to look at how they handled the BBS of TS2 and put more of that type of moderation in place.
BRAVO my dear friend....take a bow, simply well said
Thank you hon, anyone with half a mind coming in here, should rightfully be thanking all of us for doing all we have done to stop this madness, not ridiculing, accusing, arguing and complaining. If you chose to walk away that was and is your choice, but simply put, if it wasn't for those of us who chose to stand up and do something, we would all still be smack in the center of continuous trolling and trash by this madman! So in short, this thread was created to let everyone know what is being done on all fronts and for those to report any new or missed accounts made by this unmentionable psycho, not a place to come trash those willing to use their free-time to try to protect themselves and everyone else here in the community! So please end this uninformed and senseless chatter and get back to either helping or walk away period!
I am a sims 3 Store Owner Thanks to all my Amazing friends here, and I do own all store stuff from sims 2 as well!
EA would be wise to invest in having staff to moderate the chats as well as the forums.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
According to a moderator, this is the official announcement:
http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/540/486829.page#7471987
Personally, I'm not so sure whether to believe this. All of the pages seem to be hidden, and I haven't had any new requests from him, but based on EA's record with this, I am still unsure.
Thats all well and good, but that is a one-line response in towards the end of a huge thread in a category (Technical) it doesn't belong in, in the first place! There should have been something said at the very top of the Forum subject pages under the Welcome to the Forums thread at the very least!!!! Not your fault Callum, jsut very angry that EA has the audacity to ask us to vote for them for an award and then offer a BRIBE to get people to do it, when they do NOT deserve said award. Not for their shoddy bug filled game, and also not for the fact that this happened in the first place. I am just venting is all!
Welcome dear, just be careful around here!
Oh but wait, said person, will just say it's her opinion and I am angry because she doesn't agree. Well dear, it is not that, it is the fact that you said your piece, why don't YOU let it go. There are plenty of other threads to give "your opinion" to. Just saying...