Rebuilding Viper Valley and The Apocalypse Challenge

mikitta47 · February 2011

More FAQ material...

*) I saw you color-coded some things according to the accordant add-on, but not all. You might want to look over the whole text again and try to optimize that.

Yeah, that's on the short list to do. I have to manually type in the style sheet call for that and I was getting kind of tired.

*) Have you thought of color-coding the LTR that are prohbibited by the accordant restritcions, too? It might help tracking the ones that are missing from the rule set yet - if any.

Again on the short list.

*) Idea for the alternate stylist rules: You might want to add business as another prerequisite, since your Sim would like to get paid ("your money is not good here"), and might need access to "beautification supplies" in order to create the "new zombie look".

On reflection, no. The sim has to get to the top of BOTH Spa jobs and keep their job AT the spa (weather receptionist or specialist track) for their entire working lives until they die. So no, no business job requirement.

*)Alternate Stylist: Master thief is a prequesite for this restriction and further on you write "Sims may quite their job at the required job level to obtain a job in the next required job even if Master Thief restrictions have not been lifted. " That doesnt make much sense.

You are correct - that was an oversight. Thankyou for catching that. You can't attempt stylist till Master Thief is cleared.

Also, in order to hold funerals, you have to have the Ghost hunter/Ghost Encounter lifted, too. Not sure about the "no parties" restriction, namely the Film-Actor, too, or if you want to make an exception for funerals, you'll HAVE to write that down in Ghost hunter if you do choose so.)

The funeral for the sim clearing stylist is allowed as an exception - you may hold THAT funeral party regardless of what other rules were lifted. I wrote that there in the rule.

"Hold a funeral for this sim. The party must be a rousing success with the highest score.

* You may hold this funeral party even if other restrictions prohibiting it have not been lifted. "

I'll change the wording a little bit to "restrictions prohibiting parties, gatherings or funerals"

*)Alternate Film Director: "Learn all the available recipes at the book store " -> does that include the abroad recipes (they are avaliable in foreign book stores), too? If not, just add the word "local" in front of the words "book store" to be more precise. Also, a typo: "thier" instead of "their".

Good catch - it is for the local book store only.
Thanks for pointing out the typo. I can't spell their consistently for some reason LOL.

And again, how do you keep track of which/how many parties were a major success? If the game does not provide such information, you might encourage the player via your rules to make notes on paper about it.

True. Thank you for the suggestion. It WILL be on the score card that I create.

*)Vampires: "Pulling a plasma pack out of the fridge or preparing a meal with plasma fruit, or pulling a plasma fruit out of the fridge counts as the family's one meal of the day if Culnary restrictions are still in place." If plasma pack and plasma fruit are the same you wrote twice about them.

A plasma pack is like the juice box other sims pull out of the fridge as a snack. Plasma fruit is an edible fruit that can be eaten as is or prepared with cooking skill. However, if culinary is not cleared, vampires can only get the plasma pack or eat the raw fruit, and they can't put the fruit in the fridge. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

*)Athletic: "The only objects that may be used to build athletic skill are a television or a radio. " -> Is jogging allowed?

You may jog around the perimeter of the home lot if Military is not cleared. You may go jogging around the neighborhood if it is.

Also: "If a spouse moves in with more than three items in their inventory, you must downsize them imediately upon moving them in." -> You might write something about what happens if a Sims dies and the "heir" gets the dead ones items into their inventory.

You are right - I need to put that in there too. If athletic hasn't been cleared, you have to clear out those items right away.

*)Architecture: Typo - "shiney" instead of "shiny". Also: I dont have a "comfort score". I only hace a sofa with +, ++ or +++, maybe again an add-on introduced thing? Also: "Sims may only use the Survival Window. " -> What does that mean?

Comfort rating-comfort score. I do need to go through the catalog and note exactly what is allowed - comfort ratings, environment rating etc.

Also - you have mentioned that you are not a native speaker of English. Is it possible that your version of the game has the comfort scores noted differently? If you could, would you take some screen shots for me so I can make some accommodations in notation for folks who may not have the same syntax for items in their game as I do?

*)Business: "You may not sell buy mode items, [...]. (You may still sell build mode items, such as walls, windows and stairs) " -> missing from the list: mastered skill certificates, LTR (like teleporter, moodlet manager etc.)

Good catch - I'll put it in the general rules that skill mastery certificates are not to be sold.

Lifetime Rewards are not to be sold.

They go into your family inventory and are used for the scoring.

Also: "Also due to broken supply chains, sims are restricted to only the cheapest, most readily available goods on the market. There just AREN'T any high quality things available. " -> You might want to clarify this further, as I am not sure what you are refering to.

Buy mode items and build mode items.

Also: "Your sim may not buy books from the book store or items from the consignment shop. " -> what about groceries?

Covered under business and culinary - if you can't go to the store and buy anything, you can't go to the market store and buy anything. But I'll amend the language.

*)Culinary: "Sims may only prepare food once per sim day. Once any sim has prepared food, no other may do so for the rest of the day." -> what if the grill catches fire and burns down while the meal is being prepared? Are you allowed a second try at preparing a group meal, because the Sim in questions did not SERVE the food, or is your family doomed to starve after they have braved the dangers of the fire?

According to the spirit of the challenge, you are out of luck. But I'll consider this because usually my sims are about to starve to death when this happens. I may come down to the addage "save early, save often".

Also: "turn the fridge backwards" -> It might have worked that way in Sims2, but in Sims 3 I cant do that, but I put a 1 tile counter in front of the fridge, so that sims cannot access it without me. Maybe helpful for other players...

You can place the fridge in a little 1 square by 2 square room with a locking door. You don't even NEED a door, just leave off the wall at one end and turn the fridge around in the little room.

Also: Are Sims allowed to eat/drink at others families houses, if they happen to serve food/drinks there? (military must have been lifted)

Considering that you may share your food with visitors, yes. However, you are still prohibited from eating on community lots, no matter WHO serves the food.

Also: You might want to mention the toy oven explicitly, because it is not under the "oven" category.

I thought it had been included as it was in Pinstar's original rules. I'll make sure to add that.

Also:"Feeding a toddler in the high chair DOES count against the daily limit, however. " -> I think this is unnecessary. Does it really make so much difference if the toddler (in the high chair) is given a bottle or a dish that you need to complicate the players life by a rule like that? Or, if bottles in the high chair count, too, if the child is sitting on the floor or in the chair while consuming food?

Pulling out a baby bottle is covered. You can give your babies and toddlers as many bottles are you like on the floor or in a high chair. Feeding a baby babyfood assumes you are using left overs to do it. Ergo it counts as the family's one meal.

I'll add a note in there that there are no commercial baby food manufacturing plants left, so if your baby gets baby food, it MUST come from the family left overs (assume that's what a sim pulls out to put in that little dish they set in front of the toddler).

Film Actor: "Children and Teenage sims may not build skill with objects that do not also raise fun." -> This is kind of an "overkill" rule for people with only the base game (and WA), because that means in other words: no Charisma, Athletic, Cooking (unless you want to fry the little ones, fire is VERY probable without a single cooking point or at least unless you have culinary cleared), Fishing/gardening (unless "The amazing Naturalist" and for fishing at least military, too, is lifted), Guitar (unless DaVinci ... is lifted), martial arts (or do the respective items give fun?), nectar making, Photography (or do you get fun from cameras?) or writing until YOUNG ADULThood.

That is correct. I'm not going to soften this rule. This is in the original rules under Music. I am trying to stay as CLOSE to what Pinstar wrote in the original as I can.

As far as taking a chance on frying your teens trying to cook - that's a chance you have to take. For what it's worth, with a very few exceptions, my sims who have started the place on fire with the grill have all had a skill over 3 LOL!

For people who dont have the add-ons Ambition and NL (so they can lift this restriction without having to clear Military, Business, Journalism and Music-Rock Star first, that must be really harsh, espacially in combination with all your little "master these 4 skills and write some best seller and paint some master piece" where you argued that Sims trying for those restrictions could start skill building in the child stage.

Teens and children can use the computer to write. It is an object that also builds fun. Just because you can't USE it for fun until certain restrictions are lifted, or it doesn't build fun WHILE writing is a moot point.

The easle is allowed.
The radio is allowed.
The television is allowed.
The Computer is allowed.
The Chess Table is allowed.
If Da Vinci and Symphonic are cleared, you may go fishing.
If Rock Star is cleared, you may play guitar.

If a particular sim dosn't have fun AT THE SAME TIME as doing something is irrelevant. If the object also builds fun in some way and that particular object is not somehow restricted by another rule, then it is allowed. All these items do build fun.

Have you played by your own "alternate" rules yet to test the playability of your new ideas? Because, honestly, they dont sound tempting to try them out AT ALL to me... Especially if you dont get free or at least random job choice via military/journalism/science/masterthief early on...

Yes, I have been playing these to test them. They are harsh. They are MEANT to be harsh. If I wanted to TEMPT you, I would make it easy :P My goal is to balance these rules so they aren't TOO easy or TOO hard. I want them to stay in keeping with the difficulty of the rules they replace for simmer who don't have the required expansions.

*)Master thief: "You are not allowed to just up and quit your job for no good reason; ... it is CHEATING if you purposely make your sim late for work..." How about purposedly sabotaging your work performance by selecting "take it easy" (you only prohibited "slacking off" and "sleeping") from the work menu and/or making enemies of coworkers and boss, etc. in order to get fired. Is that cheating, too?

If you are doing it with the intention of getting fired, it's cheating. Don't cheat. It makes the baby llamas cry. For pity's sake, think of the baby llamas!

Also: "If you get a chance card while at work, you must not ignore it. You MUST chose one of the two options." -> I dont think "ignore" is an option anymore, that was Sims 2

There is an X button you can use to shut the pop up window down without chosing either option, I think. If I am wrong about that, then the game forces the choice on you.

*)Medical: Are Sims allowed to go to the hospital go get their babies when they are coming?

When Military and Medical are cleared. I'll make sure to update the rules on that.

Also: "Whenever Sims woohoo, they MUST choose “Try for baby”.... (Unless ... the two Sims woohooing are the same gender)." -> you might want to rephrase that, bearing the "same gender have babies mod" you mentioned above in mind...

I thought I covered that using the "same gender" exception I put in the starting rules. But I see your point - if they are playing w/ the same sex pregnancy mods, they HAVE to chose ONE of the pair to be the "mommy", ergo, they can't chose any other option than try for baby.

I'll make sure it's covered again in medical.

Also: If the water is unsanitary, shouldnt Sims be prohibited from brushing their teeth at the sink?

You have enough fresh water for brushing your teeth and washing your hands. But not enough to wash clothes or take a shower. Sims who can bathe at the sink are living as shameless scape graces, thumbing their noses at the powers that be and sucking resources from other households, endangering the survival of the colony. Ain't it great to be inappropriate? :P

Also: if the female IS allowed to have their baby at the hospital, the male usually drops everything and joins her. Does this count towards the Master Thief "missing a single day of work for any reason" thingy? If so, you might want to post a warning for the inexperienced players, that this will happen. If you go with the "the game leaves us no choice" like with the grouping up when inviting a visitor, then maybe you should put that into the rules, too.

If the male or the "father" sim misses work before Master Thief is cleared - yep, it sure does. He has to quit. I will add that into the FAQ because really - they miss work, the rules say if you miss work for ANY reason ... I don't have to put a legally exhaustive set of conditions in each category. Folks CAN think a bit for themselves

*)Military: "Sims may not travel to any community lots except to go to school or go to work." -> you might want to rephrase that to "Sims may not leave their home lot..." except you are ok with going them to neighbors houses and such. ATM you are only denying them to go to COMMUNITY lots, if you get my drift. And you should write donw the "new boundaries" of the home lot, if you are going to work with then, here.

I am going to define a perimiter you can go past the hard boundaries of your lot. Those will be a certain distance past the edge on sides you don't have a road - such as to the boundary of your nearest neighbor if they are close or some other marker if they are not, and just across the road to the opposite sidewalk where there IS a road.

Also: "Teenage and child Sims may not leave the home except to go to school. They may not be off the lot at all after 3pm. " -> Please mention that teens are only allowed to go to school when education is already cleared.

I thought I had. I'll make sure that's in there.

Also:"If Education is cleared, they may not complete afterschool opportunities. They must come home immediately." -> edit an "EVEN" into that sentence, please.

why? They simply may not complete after school opportunities. I'll Amend the wording to "they may not accept the after school opportunities".

Also: "If they want to go over to someone's house after school, they may not. They must come immediately." -> How about children that come to your home with your kids after school, is that ok? Or do we have to send them home a.s.a.p.?

If other parents allow their children to wander a zombie infested waste land without supervision, that's their business. Other children and teens may come to visit you, however, and they must be off the lot by midnight.

*)Rock Star: "Sims may not dance at all. ", "The only thing stereos may be used for is to work out. " -> are you serious? Even in Pinstars Challenge you had ONE music box you were allowed to get fun from. How are you supposed to keep your sim from being stressed out without it?

Those ARE Pinstar's rules. Straight out of The Apocalypse Challenge for The Sims 2 updated for all expansions and stuff packs.

If you want to keep them from being stressed out if you have nothing else to do, have them lay on the bed and day dream.

Also: "Sims may not perform music for other sims in public " -> Does that mean they are allowed to pefrom at home?

At home yes. Family members can wander by and watch. But they cannot chose "perform" even at home. They must chose "practice" instead.

*)Symphony: " Items may not be placed outdoors. Everything must be covered by a roof or awning." ->You wrote that twice. Also: "Sims may not use telescopes (too cloudy to see anything). "-> this does not have a "dot" in front of it, but I suppose it should have...

What's a little punctuation amongst friends :P

I'll check Symphony for stating things twice. Thanks.

*)Science: "Sims may not purchase and use automobiles or motorbikes at all. Sims MAY have a bicycle, however. " -> does that mean you cant have a car at the beginning of the challenge anymore? I was already wondering about the "brought back" items, you dont mention them in the "starting out" rules anymore.

That is correct. I decided the whole "came back from adventure" scenario really didn't work well. Allowing you to get as many skill books as you want on Day 1 compensates well for it, I think. (yes, I changed the rules so you can get ALL the skill books if you like - or at least as many as you can afford and still build your house.)

Also: "you can invite over sims you are good friends with or you have a romantic relationship with " -> that kind of not matches the military rules, where you can invite only romances and BEST friends, if you dont have a car (which is prohibited by this rule).

Cars are prohibited by science. If you have science cleared, you can purchase a car and go joy riding with your buddies.

If you have hearts with someone, they may come over no matter what. If you are best friends with someone, they may come over no matter what. You may still socialize walk bys as normal.

Also: "Sims may not use the Inventor's Bench" - doesnt that kind of mean, that cleared science is a prequisite for DaVinci? You didnt mention that there. I dunno , I only have base game and WA, as you know.

Thanks for catching that. I'll add science to the Da Vinci pre-requisites. I had thought I put that in there as I've said all along that you HAVE to clear science to do Da Vinci.

Also: "Sims may not run through the sprinkler" Maybe a dumb question, but what has that got to do with science? I would have expected it at medical.

The running through the sprinkler is restricted in several areas. Science because it needs to be re-invented, Symphony because that is how Pinstar wrote the rules, and medical because it's a water item that supposedly can increase your hygiene slowly.

*)The amazing Naturalist: In the prerequisites you write Ambitions, yet you do not offer an alternate rule set in the "above" section. Also: "they must have a perfect bug collection" -> what does that mean? Also, are you allowed to "keep" the bugs/plants/fish" you already collected with one Sim if they die for the successor in "trying to lift the restriction"?

I've never done the bug collecting, so that's on my short list of things to test - weather you can have normal, nice, perfect etc. bugs. I may change it to be just the in game challenge of 10 beetles and 10 butterflies. Not sure yet.

If your sim attempting to clear Da Vinci dies, you do NOT get to keep their perfects collection to add to your next attempt. However, you may sell them to increase your job progress if you are self employed.

As for the ambitions/not having ambitions thing - I'll clarify it in the category itself - Because you CAN do Da Vinci without Ambitions - you just can't be self employed.

*)Politics:"Sims may not own community lots." you worte that twice, one time with an extension behind. Also, are Sims allowed to own businesses, if Business is cleared?

I thought I edited that out. I'll check that again.

No owning community lots at all (including businesses like the salon or the grocery store, until both business and politics are cleared. Not sure atm if Master Thief is required too ... I'll look later though.

*)Private Eye: "Sims may only use the telephone for calling friends and acquaintances or for quitting work, even if science has been lifted. " -> does that count for the "house phone", the cell phones, or both?

If you can make a call on it, it counts.

*)Back to normal: "Your score is the total number of days that have passed since your founder returned from college" -> Your founder didnt come back from college, that was Sims 2! Also, shouldent you rather get a better score for taking FEWER time to solve all the problems than get more points for taking LONGER? Also: "Want an even harder challenge? Try this challenge again, except start your founder as an adult. " -> If you dont have tested if that is even possible at all, you should not suggest it.

I hadn't worked on that bit at all yet - I was focused on the rules. That is copied and pasted straight from Pin's original challenge. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, however, and I'll put it on the short list.

I would like to add one thing here - I really appreciate the help with finding conflicts with the rules, but some of them you can draw conclusions from what has already been said. This is NOT a legal document and some things ARE a matter of common sense. If I were to include every possible permutation of a rule for every single category - the document would be about the size of Obama's Health Care Bill and would scare EVERYONE away... ugh LOL! If you REALLY don't understand, that's cool - ask for clarification and your question will be included in the FAQ when I get it written up

Again, I REALLY appreciate the help you are giving me to proof read this and notice things I've missed. It help A LOT!

God Bless,
mik

ramble · February 2011

Oh wow, the rules have changed dramatically since I last read them (*cough* too long ago *cough*). I guess I have some studying to do, lol.

Anyway, based on the few bits I have read, the rules seem good. Difficult, yes, but good and in keeping with Pinstar's original rules (oh, how I actually miss playing AC on TS2). I'll give the rules a read as soon as I can so that I can join in on the conversation here.

mikitta47 wrote:

I may come down to the addage "save early, save often".

Does this mean that quitting the game without saving (after a disastrous event) is allowed (in extreme cases such as the death of the only playable sim)? Or did I misinterpret the quote?

mikitta47 · February 2011

That is a valid strategy. I'm thinking hard how to create a scoring system for this and there will definitely be something about quitting w/o saving to escape a fatal consequence. I think Pinstars Legacy scoring had something like that.

God Bless,
mik

mikitta47 · February 2011

I won't be working on rules so much this week as I've determined to get Rattlesnake Ridge up and running before the end of April. RR will be updated to LN/OLS and I hope it will have some easter eggs in it for you as well.

I'll post more FAQ stuff as I get to it.

God Bless,
mik

mikitta47 · February 2011

I did some play testing last night - with Twallen's Master Controller, Story Progression and Overwatch mods installed and Buzzler's Moodlet Hotfix installed, I was able to get a sim to level 6 in education in 3 sim weeks, which is in keeping with being able to play the challenge on Normal life span (90 days).

MC I used to give resident townies their jobs so they wouldn't get stuck on the book register 24 hours a day, but that's about it. Overwatch clears excess cars, unsticks stuck townies, runs the homeless (stuck non-resident townies) out of town and shuts off TV's and Stereos each night. The Story Progression makes it so the rest of the town dosn't do ❤️❤️❤️❤️ things like age faster than you, get sloppy fat with no provocation, lose their jobs, have families that make no sense - in essence, it's a better story manager and it allows you to establish the settings you want for your world.

Buzzler's Hotfix makes it so you can once again, sleep in any bed in the game and be assured of truly well rested night's sleep.

Basically, using these mods to fix issues in the game that were rendering it unplayable for the challenge, I can now do it on Normal age setting. I'll do some more testing, since it's not taking such a long time to progress, and report back.

God Bless,
mik

ramble · February 2011

When my sim marries in someone and the new spouse already has a job, can they keep their occupation or do they have to resign and then look at the newspaper for a new job? If they must quit, shall I assume that thay may never take up that career again? If they do not need to quit, may they lift the restrictions of that particular career?

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

Does this only apply to items in the appliances category or all other items as well (comfort items etc.)?

Business: Also due to broken supply chains, sims are restricted to only the cheapest, most readily available goods on the market.

Do you mean items bought from a shop (groceries, books etc.) or all buyable goods (also in the buy tab)?

Children and Teenage sims may not build skill with objects that do not also raise fun.

So, no skill books, either, I assume?

The Amazing Naturalist: Prerequisites - Ambitions Expansion, Master Thief, Music-Symphonic, Military, Business and Science.

Ghost Hunter: Sims may not catch the deathfish. They cannot even fish where a deathfish might spawn.

Should Ghost Hunter also be a prerequisite for The Amazing Naturalist? Or is deathfish not required in order to lift the AN restriction?

Journalism: If a sim who has been moved into the family has a non-skill book, or non-career related book in their inventory, it must be sold immediately as part of the resources brought in by the arriving spouse.

So it may be sold even if the Business restriction is still in place?

Law Enforcement - International Super Spy: Sims who are not friends with a member of the household may not enter the house.

If a sim brings home an acquaintance, they may enter the lot but not the house, right?

Life of Crime - Master Thief: You are not allowed to just up and quit your job for no good reason. You have to either be fired outright, be late for work, have a pregnancy that puts you into maternity leave or age up into an elder with less than 10 skill points in body ( before Comforting Children and Law Enforcement - Dynamic DNA Profiler have been cleared). By the way, it is CHEATING if you purposely make your sim late for work so you can quit your job. It is also cheating to purposely go to work in a super rotten mood to lower your job performance so you get fired (it's hard enough to stay happy, but you should avoid going with a red plumb bob if you can.). If you do this with the express purpose of finding another job for your sim, then you have lost the challenge.

And if a female sim happens to get pregnant, is that cheating (if Medical hasn't been lifted, one must choose "Try to get pregnant", after all, and they always the risk the chance of pregnancy)?

Daedreem · February 2011

I've been watching this topic for an update, I have many questions, but have been trying to wait rather than ask...
But...
After really starting to play I found several things that I really need to know how to handle NOW...

How are people handling the "Mooch" trait?

I couldn't find any mention of it.

I purposefully didn't select this for my founder because I didn't know what was allowed as far as mooching goes...
But his wife has several useless traits... (Party Animal... poor thing) And MOOCH... Which I hope will not be.

Here is what I'm thinking....
Mooch money from any friend.

Mooch FOOD, Not counting as your one a day meal, - ONLY from either Off-Lot family only, Or from Off-Lot Family and Best friends.

- I'm thinking the mooch food should be allowed thus based on:

Also: Are Sims allowed to eat/drink at others families houses, if they happen to serve food/drinks there? (military must have been lifted)

Considering that you may share your food with visitors, yes. However, you are still prohibited from eating on community lots, no matter WHO serves the food.

above. But I'm thinking limit it only to best friends or above because otherwise Mooch is too powerful... Of course so is Inappropriate.

- On Jobs... [Update- found the answer while writing this post, leaving the question for others who missed it... Answer- Reread "Journalism"] I was going to wait to ask this until I used the newspaper for jobs a few more times, (My SOP is decide what job I want and apply in person) but I'm not completely understanding when/how you transition from the "Must take first job in paper" to doing jobs like stylist and PI... I don't think they're in the paper, are they? Do you have to clear ALL jobs in the paper before working these, so you can just go to the location to get the job?

- Question Re Skill books.
I didn't buy a pregnancy book because I didn't consider it a skill book...
But it's also not on the list of proscribed books....
On further reflection, child-rearing COULD count as a skill... (but I do not think it was on the skill tab at the book store..)
So... is it or isn't it a no-buy?

- Last poster asked a good question:

Journalism: If a sim who has been moved into the family has a non-skill book, or non-career related book in their inventory, it must be sold immediately as part of the resources brought in by the arriving spouse.

So it may be sold even if the Business restriction is still in place?

My new bride brought in a 350 simoleon book.... I stuck it "out of the way in the family inventory" then discovered clicking on the bookshelf gives the option "Put away books from the family inventory" so if they can do that autonomously, it's not a good way to be rid of books...

- Re Apple for the Teacher....
My founder rolled Education. One of his students gave him an apple.
I stuck it on my roof. He REALLY wants that apple.
Should I leave it on the roof, or treat it like found adventure food... "You can eat it when you find it, just not carry it in your inventory" - After all, evidently my student had a source for black-market apples, and REALLY needed a good grade...

Last question for now.. (RL baby is awake and wanting attention)

When I moved my new wife in, within an hour of moving her in she was pregnant, and no longer eligible to work... Yet I had to get her a job anyway, which unfortunately prevents her from being able to unlock said desired job.... Did I do this correctly? Or since I knew she was going to procreate before working, could I have waited to get her her job?

PPS, I did cheat slightly in getting her pregnant... They were laying in bed waving the paparazzi out of the room, but the darn woman couldn't figure out how to get out. I finally built a wall to block her out of the room and give them peace, then deleted the wall so it never existed.... Hopefully that counts as more of 'dealing with bugs' rather than cheating.

PPPS, who are you calling mr Big and the Diva? Those characters are only Sims2... Do you mean 5 star celebrity's? And what if you were friends with them before they became that?
My founder has several 'celebrity' friends... he was friends with ALL of them before they gained stars.
Now, he's 2 star, and wife is 1 star.

ramble · February 2011

I'm not sure if there's a conflict between these two or am I reading between the lines too much:

Private Eye: There is a sever shortage of computer bandwidth, and the telephone lines are having issues a well.
* Sims may only use the telephone for calling friends and acquaintances or for quitting work, even if science has been lifted.
* Sims may only use the computer for looking for jobs and for writing, even if science has been cleared.
* These restrictions are lifted on Mondays and Thursdays, when sims may call all day long, chat on the internet, troll forums, etc.

Science: The cell phone in sims backpack inventories is a glorified walkie talkie with multiple channels.
* You can call other sims you are acquainted with (you have their ham radio call sign),
* you can invite over sims you are good friends with or you have a romantic relationship with,
* you can quit your job (if you are late for work or you turn elder before Comforting Children has been cleared).

So is calling sims (to chat or to invite them over) only allowed at a certain time of the day and on Mondays and Thursdays (hence the "these restrictions are lifted on Mondays and Thursdays, when sims may call all day long") or what does that bit refer to?

Law Enforcement - International Super Spy: Sims may only be invited to come to visit during daylight hours. They must leave the home lot by midnight.

So sims may only be invited to come before 6pm (when the sun sets), right? But thay may stay even after nightfall (until midnight), if they were invited beforehand?

Also, my sim received some food from her boss (in Culinary). I suppose I must dispose of it?

mikitta47 · February 2011

Hey guys - I am sorry I haven't been around to answer questions much. Let me try to get this current crop ironed out

Here we go

When my sim marries in someone and the new spouse already has a job, can they keep their occupation or do they have to resign and then look at the newspaper for a new job? If they must quit, shall I assume that thay may never take up that career again? If they do not need to quit, may they lift the restrictions of that particular career?

They may keep their job if they are already employed - in fact if they have employment in a restriction career that hasn't been lifted yet (and isn't otherwise restricted itself), that is a very good strategy to use. If you marry in someone who has already reached level 10 in a career, that restriction is automatically lifted - bonus for you!!

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

Does this only apply to items in the appliances category or all other items as well (comfort items etc.)?

Business: Also due to broken supply chains, sims are restricted to only the cheapest, most readily available goods on the market.

Do you mean items bought from a shop (groceries, books etc.) or all buyable goods (also in the buy tab)?

This applies to everything under the buy and build tabs respectively. The grocery store and book store are not thus restricted as they have the item on hand.

Children and Teenage sims may not build skill with objects that do not also raise fun.

So, no skill books, either, I assume?

Correct.

The Amazing Naturalist: Prerequisites - Ambitions Expansion, Master Thief, Music-Symphonic, Military, Business and Science.

Ghost Hunter: Sims may not catch the deathfish. They cannot even fish where a deathfish might spawn.

Should Ghost Hunter also be a prerequisite for The Amazing Naturalist? Or is deathfish not required in order to lift the AN restriction?

Catching the deathfish is not a requirement of The Amazing Naturalist.

Journalism: If a sim who has been moved into the family has a non-skill book, or non-career related book in their inventory, it must be sold immediately as part of the resources brought in by the arriving spouse.

So it may be sold even if the Business restriction is still in place?

Correct.

Law Enforcement - International Super Spy: Sims who are not friends with a member of the household may not enter the house.

If a sim brings home an acquaintance, they may enter the lot but not the house, right?

Correct

Life of Crime - Master Thief: You are not allowed to just up and quit your job for no good reason. You have to either be fired outright, be late for work, have a pregnancy that puts you into maternity leave or age up into an elder with less than 10 skill points in body ( before Comforting Children and Law Enforcement - Dynamic DNA Profiler have been cleared). By the way, it is CHEATING if you purposely make your sim late for work so you can quit your job. It is also cheating to purposely go to work in a super rotten mood to lower your job performance so you get fired (it's hard enough to stay happy, but you should avoid going with a red plumb bob if you can.). If you do this with the express purpose of finding another job for your sim, then you have lost the challenge.

And if a female sim happens to get pregnant, is that cheating (if Medical hasn't been lifted, one must choose "Try to get pregnant", after all, and they always the risk the chance of pregnancy)?

No, it's not cheating to get your female sim pregnant - after all, the new heir has to be born.

I've been watching this topic for an update, I have many questions, but have been trying to wait rather than ask...
But...
After really starting to play I found several things that I really need to know how to handle NOW...

How are people handling the "Mooch" trait?

I couldn't find any mention of it.

I purposefully didn't select this for my founder because I didn't know what was allowed as far as mooching goes...
But his wife has several useless traits... (Party Animal... poor thing) And MOOCH... Which I hope will not be.

Here is what I'm thinking....
Mooch money from any friend.

Mooch FOOD, Not counting as your one a day meal, - ONLY from either Off-Lot family only, Or from Off-Lot Family and Best friends.

- I'm thinking the mooch food should be allowed thus based on:

Also: Are Sims allowed to eat/drink at others families houses, if they happen to serve food/drinks there? (military must have been lifted)

Considering that you may share your food with visitors, yes. However, you are still prohibited from eating on community lots, no matter WHO serves the food.

above. But I'm thinking limit it only to best friends or above because otherwise Mooch is too powerful... Of course so is Inappropriate.

You can mooch food, but not on community lots if culinary has been cleared. You can mooch money once Master Thief has been cleared.

- On Jobs... [Update- found the answer while writing this post, leaving the question for others who missed it... Answer- Reread "Journalism"] I was going to wait to ask this until I used the newspaper for jobs a few more times, (My SOP is decide what job I want and apply in person) but I'm not completely understanding when/how you transition from the "Must take first job in paper" to doing jobs like stylist and PI... I don't think they're in the paper, are they? Do you have to clear ALL jobs in the paper before working these, so you can just go to the location to get the job?

Your founder determines their job either by rolling a 6 sided die or by looking in the newspaper.

Subsequent sims in the household will determine their job by looking in the paper.

When Science is cleared, they can look online.
When Military is cleared they can walk to the job of their choice.
When Science and Master Thief are cleared, they can look at ALL the jobs online.
When Journalism and Master Thief are cleared they can look at ALL the jobs in the paper.

- Question Re Skill books.
I didn't buy a pregnancy book because I didn't consider it a skill book...
But it's also not on the list of proscribed books....
On further reflection, child-rearing COULD count as a skill... (but I do not think it was on the skill tab at the book store..)
So... is it or isn't it a no-buy?

Anything not found under the skill books tab at the book store is off limits. If it isn't under that tab, it's not a skill book. The exceptions being the nectar making books found in france, the martial arts book in China and the photography books in Egypt. They are books that, when read, cause the little blue gauge to appear above your sim's head.

- Last poster asked a good question:

Journalism: If a sim who has been moved into the family has a non-skill book, or non-career related book in their inventory, it must be sold immediately as part of the resources brought in by the arriving spouse.

So it may be sold even if the Business restriction is still in place?

My new bride brought in a 350 simoleon book.... I stuck it "out of the way in the family inventory" then discovered clicking on the bookshelf gives the option "Put away books from the family inventory" so if they can do that autonomously, it's not a good way to be rid of books...

They won't put books back on shelves autonomously - at least never that I have observed. You have to chose that option for them to do it.

- Re Apple for the Teacher....
My founder rolled Education. One of his students gave him an apple.
I stuck it on my roof. He REALLY wants that apple.
Should I leave it on the roof, or treat it like found adventure food... "You can eat it when you find it, just not carry it in your inventory" - After all, evidently my student had a source for black-market apples, and REALLY needed a good grade...

Any food that you are given while at work (apples for teachers, extra food for working at the restart, etc) is fair game to eat. You just may not carry it around in your inventory. As soon as you notice it's there, it must be placed on your lot.

Last question for now.. (RL baby is awake and wanting attention)

When I moved my new wife in, within an hour of moving her in she was pregnant, and no longer eligible to work... Yet I had to get her a job anyway, which unfortunately prevents her from being able to unlock said desired job.... Did I do this correctly? Or since I knew she was going to procreate before working, could I have waited to get her her job?

You don't have to immediately get the moved in female sims a job. You can have them make babies first.

PPS, I did cheat slightly in getting her pregnant... They were laying in bed waving the paparazzi out of the room, but the darn woman couldn't figure out how to get out. I finally built a wall to block her out of the room and give them peace, then deleted the wall so it never existed.... Hopefully that counts as more of 'dealing with bugs' rather than cheating.

The paparazzi are such pests, aren't they? I wish I could give them the dirty dishes and trashy newspapers in retaliation ...

What you did was dealing with a bugged sim. You could also activate "moveobjects on" in your cheat console and pick up the paparazzi and delete them if they become stuck. The game will just spawn another one when it's wants to. They aren't allowed for any relationship building for a while anyway.

PPPS, who are you calling mr Big and the Diva? Those characters are only Sims2... Do you mean 5 star celebrity's? And what if you were friends with them before they became that?
My founder has several 'celebrity' friends... he was friends with ALL of them before they gained stars.
Now, he's 2 star, and wife is 1 star.

Mr. Big and The Diva were rich sims in TS2. They would bring in a HUGE amount of cash when moved in to the household. To carry over that idea for TS3 -- you can't marry an extraordinarily rich sim. I think you will see $$$ after you have gotten to know them a bit in their profile panel. You can also discover this by gossiping with other sims.

I'm not sure if there's a conflict between these two or am I reading between the lines too much:

Private Eye: There is a sever shortage of computer bandwidth, and the telephone lines are having issues a well.
* Sims may only use the telephone for calling friends and acquaintances or for quitting work, even if science has been lifted.
* Sims may only use the computer for looking for jobs and for writing, even if science has been cleared.
* These restrictions are lifted on Mondays and Thursdays, when sims may call all day long, chat on the internet, troll forums, etc.

Science: The cell phone in sims backpack inventories is a glorified walkie talkie with multiple channels.
* You can call other sims you are acquainted with (you have their ham radio call sign),
* you can invite over sims you are good friends with or you have a romantic relationship with,
* you can quit your job (if you are late for work or you turn elder before Comforting Children has been cleared).

So is calling sims (to chat or to invite them over) only allowed at a certain time of the day and on Mondays and Thursdays (hence the "these restrictions are lifted on Mondays and Thursdays, when sims may call all day long") or what does that bit refer to?

Science makes it so you can't use the phone for anything but calling in to work or calling friends - it's only a glorified Motorola short wave portable radio. Once science is cleared, the phone is an actual phone again.

Private Eye makes it so there is limited bandwidth on the computers and mobile phones, limited bandwidth on the short wave radios and limited accessibility on land line phones so that you can only call to chat with friends and acquaintances on the specified days (which, by the way are changing to be Tuesday and Saturday - the days right before Athletic Career game days). You can invite best friends or lovers over ANY time, however, within restriction limitations - no later than 6pm etc.

Law Enforcement - International Super Spy: Sims may only be invited to come to visit during daylight hours. They must leave the home lot by midnight.

So sims may only be invited to come before 6pm (when the sun sets), right? But thay may stay even after nightfall (until midnight), if they were invited beforehand?

Correct

Also, my sim received some food from her boss (in Culinary). I suppose I must dispose of it?

If you receive food from work, you may eat it. You must get it out of your inventory as soon as you know about it, however. You can leave it sitting on a table, though.

I hope these answers help you guys

Again, I am sorry for not checking this thread for the last couple of days. I've been busy running tests on getting through each of the rabbit hole jobs with all restrictions in place. I've installed Buzzler's hotfix for the moodlet bug, Twallen's Overwatch to get rid of all the excessive cars and Twallen's Story Progression to keep things rational in the neighborhood.

For the 4 careers I've tested so far, I've cleared them all within 45 sim days. The longest one was Education, which took 44 days. Science took 41, Military took 39 and I'm still working on Athletics. My sim is at level 7 currently, so unless I catch a HUGE break, it will take me at least another 2 sim weeks to max that career, putting her around 45ish days.

I'm thinking of making a 10 or 20 day allowance of playing with aging off. You can use it at your discretion to get you through the hump of that first job so that you aren't minutes away from old age when you clear your first restriction. This should allow playing on Normal aging. You can also use it at other times - so long as you are within the allowance.

You will get a point bonus for any unused aging-off days, and you will incur a point penalty for using aging-off more than the allowance ... once I get the scoring in place.

I'm also considering changing the rules a bit on leaving the lot for visiting. I get NO walk buys on my lot at all. None. It's very frustrating. However, I'm thinking that if you are in line of sight on your street, you can visit another sim's house - between 10am and 4pm. You can't go inside unless you are lovers or best friends with a sim in that household, however.

It's something I'm play testing and I'm not sure yet if it will be implemented.

God Bless,
mik

ramble · February 2011

Ugh, this challenge is hard to play with Night Life installed. And this is not because of the careers, but the fact that over half of the sims in town are or turn into a) vampires or b) paparazzi, and therefore they cannot be married in. I have pursued two sims with my founder and they both turned into vampires right before I could move them in! I'm not happy, not happy at all... :evil: I suppose there's no chance that they might turn back into normal sims, is there? I suppose not.

By the way, the rules state that one must buy "The Small Brass Bed $450" before they start playing. The problem is that the bed in question only costs $425. The B.R.A.❤️❤️❤️❤️. Double Bed costs $450, though - did you mean for us to buy that bed, mikitta, or the single one?

And thank you for your answers, mikitta, they were really helpful!

Herbstwinde · February 2011

hey,

I love this challenge. it's awesome. thank you so much

i like the idea about the once a week safety briefing. (when you put a time restriction on it you might want to consider large neighbourhoods, because if i play a large one it takes my sims a long time to get to and from places so 12-3 seems short. time will be half over before they arrive)

Comfort-Display-Problem the other player had:

Could this be caused by the Feature of AwesomeMod that gives you Better Object Information? If It Is you can turn that feature of and all is fine

That Feature also shows higher environment-scores.

I have quite a few questions

Ok, other things I noticed

you asked for comments.

I find the $500 rule from architecture really difficult. No cars, no computers (even if those restrictions have been lifted). You have to do Architecture before Descendants of DaVinci because the Workbenches are over 500. So I found the Descendants of Davinci Restriction about the draft table confusing, because the Restriction to "have it" is only liftable by architecture anyway. Or rather it is a mute restriction. Second mute Restriction regarding the drafting table: Architecture: "Only Sims currently in the Architecture or Stylist careers may use the Drafting Table. " Except they can't because if Architecture hasn't been cleared they can't afford it.

"No Cabs" Rule/Science Car Rule:
You basically can't leave the home lot (except for work/school) even after Military has been cleared. You have to clear either Military + Architecture + Science (before you can buy a car) or clear Military + Law Enforcement(Spy) + Stylist + Science and thus "go with" someone (especially family members) isn't necessary anymore. Because if you don't have a car the sims will take a cab to "go with" (except of course if you meant by that rule that you send two sims individually to the same lot at the same time).
Also about "go with" Rules. Do they apply to going to stores as well?

Culinary:
"If an heir outlives both their parents and they have not yet moved in a spouse, they can only eat quick meals from the fridge." & "Sims may only prepare group meals if there are more than 1 sim living on the lot." is that just saying the same thing twice or does that mean that if your heir has siblings living on the lot to have to let them starve?
Is it allowed to Buy Things from the Miscellaneous Tab in Appliances?

Film-Director:
"Sims may not attend parties thrown by resident townies." Is it allowed to attend parties by spares & relations that you moved out? or are they now townies?

Criminal Mastermind:
Is the Difference between the Rules on Purpose? In Rule 1 you don't pay for "Creations" of your sims. In rule 2 you do?
Do you have to pay protection money on the things in your family inventory (except for the big lemon) in rule 1? Like The Career Rewards.

Journalism:
"When Sims use the paper to Look for Job, they may only select the first of the three jobs that appears in the paper that day. The 2nd and 3rd jobs may not be taken. " If this 1st or 2nd career has been cleared does the Sim still have to take it? (thus making that Sim an annoying Spare that doesn't do anything productive). For the "Master Thief" -Rule this is the Exception.

Challenge Rules:
"They have to keep this job till they reach level 10 in it or they are fired"; Master-Thief :"You are not allowed to just up and quit your job for no good reason." So it is allowed to quit the Job after Level 10?

Military:
"Sims may not take the subway (it's full of zombies) even if science has been cleared. " It doesn't say anything about the Subway in the Science Rule anyway. Just about Cars, Motorbikes.

Middle Of Nowhere Rule:
Building more than 2 of each a day: gets cleared by Architecture, right?!?

Descendant of DaVinci:
It doesn't restrict having or practicing other instruments, right?

Amazing Naturalist:
"Autumn Salad, Fruit Parfait and any other dish that requires vegetables or fruits may not be prepared, ordered at restaurants or bought pre-made." & "Sims may not prepare, purchase from community lots or eat Sushi, Grilled Salmon, Lobster Thermidor or any other dish containing fish. " So the only allowed dishes are: Waffles, Grilled Cheese, Hot Dogs, Mac & Cheese, Cheesesteak, Cookies & Shawarma ?!? because all other reciped use either vegetables, fruit or fish.

On the wiki page you have a "lifetime rewards restrictions" page. that list and the rules don't match. i can tell you exactly which restrictions are missing from the rules page cause i made a list

i actually made a list of everything that is restricted and by what (Jobs, Social Interactions, Buying, etc)anybody want that list? it's an excel-spreadsheet. it might not make sense to anyone but me though

It doesn't say anything in the wiki about the speed to play the challenge. i also don't like the idea to have to play normal though. (like you said here) it seems fine to me because i get bored otherwise but to force it n people seems harsh

you said on the board that the 3+ inventory rule refers to stacks, not individual things? i didn't think so from the rules.

While you're developing Property or if your in the Architect Career are you restricted by the "1 Item per Day" - Rule (Middle of Nowhere)? Property will take forever and Architect will be impossible

Here you said: Master Cerificates go in the family inventory (for scoring) ; wiki: "Earned skill master plaques must be placed on the lot or in the sim's family inventory. "

Ok, and some purely "understanding" Problems, because my game isn't in English

Film-Actor:
What do you mean by "Recreations Tab"? The one with the fireworks or the one with all the skill objects?

Architect:
"No space completely enclosed by wall elements is allowed..." Do you mean rooms? Even if they have a door?

The Amazing Naturalist:
"You may not buy ***** with flowers from the buy tab. " Does that mean Plants in general or really just Flower *****?

edited to add: i can't understand why they restrict the word "..." then again i'm not a native speaker. maybe i'm missing something. i mean the things you commonly put flowers in

They may keep their job if they are already employed - in fact if they have employment in a restriction career that hasn't been lifted yet (and isn't otherwise restricted itself), that is a very good strategy to use. If you marry in someone who has already reached level 10 in a career, that restriction is automatically lifted - bonus for you!!

i didn't get that from the rules. even if the moved in sim is a female? because it's impossible for them to have the next heir before lifting the restriction. "the spouses to heirs who have ushered in the next generation (the heir to the previous heir is born) can unlock restrictions"

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

This applies to everything under the buy and build tabs respectively. The grocery store and book store are not thus restricted as they have the item on hand.

again. i didn't get that from the rules. "appliances" for me really only refered to appliances, not to everything.

Science makes it so you can't use the phone for anything but calling in to work or calling friends - it's only a glorified Motorola short wave portable radio. Once science is cleared, the phone is an actual phone again.

Private Eye makes it so there is limited bandwidth on the computers and mobile phones, limited bandwidth on the short wave radios and limited accessibility on land line phones so that you can only call to chat with friends and acquaintances on the specified days ...

again, i didn't get that from the rules. it seems inconsistent with how the rules are usually worded. for me it meant: until science is cleared: no using phones for vacations,property,services, etc (everything except calling friends & quitting work)... until private eye is cleared no using phones for vacations,property,services, etc (everything except calling friends & quitting work) except on mondays and thursdays where you could check on property, go on vacations, call services, etc. ... so both have to be cleared to do anything with the phone anytime, but once science is cleared you have mondays & thursdays to do those things. i think if you mean it the way you just now said you should maybe word it differently, like "using the phone is prohibited, except on mondays and thursdays where you may call friends or quit work."

i'm just pointing these "misunderstandings" out because i think other people might have the same problem & you asked for comments

all the best

mikitta47 · February 2011

ramble wrote:

Ugh, this challenge is hard to play with Night Life installed. And this is not because of the careers, but the fact that over half of the sims in town are or turn into a) vampires or b) paparazzi, and therefore they cannot be married in. I have pursued two sims with my founder and they both turned into vampires right before I could move them in! I'm not happy, not happy at all... :evil: I suppose there's no chance that they might turn back into normal sims, is there? I suppose not.

not until Science and Medical are cleared. I agree the vampires are annoying. So are the paparazzi. All I can say is NRAAS mods do take care of those things and make it so there aren't nearly so many of them in the 'hood.

By the way, the rules state that one must buy "The Small Brass Bed $450" before they start playing. The problem is that the bed in question only costs $425. The B.R.A.❤️❤️❤️❤️. Double Bed costs $450, though - did you mean for us to buy that bed, mikitta, or the single one?

The single one - sorry.

And thank you for your answers, mikitta, they were really helpful!

You are welcome

God Bless,
mik

mikitta47 · February 2011

Herbstwinde wrote:

hey,

I love this challenge. it's awesome. thank you so much

You bet

I'm glad to meet other fans:D

i like the idea about the once a week safety briefing. (when you put a time restriction on it you might want to consider large neighbourhoods, because if i play a large one it takes my sims a long time to get to and from places so 12-3 seems short. time will be half over before they arrive)

You may factor in travel time.

Comfort-Display-Problem the other player had:

Could this be caused by the Feature of AwesomeMod that gives you Better Object Information? If It Is you can turn that feature of and all is fine That Feature also shows higher environment-scores.

Hmm My hubby uses Awsome, but I didn't like it too well. I prefer Twallen's mods, personally, because I feel I have much more control over the settings.

I have quite a few questions

Ok, other things I noticed you asked for comments.

I find the $500 rule from architecture really difficult. No cars, no computers (even if those restrictions have been lifted). You have to do Architecture before Descendants of DaVinci because the Workbenches are over 500. So I found the Descendants of Davinci Restriction about the draft table confusing, because the Restriction to "have it" is only liftable by architecture anyway. Or rather it is a mute restriction. Second mute Restriction regarding the drafting table: Architecture: "Only Sims currently in the Architecture or Stylist careers may use the Drafting Table. " Except they can't because if Architecture hasn't been cleared they can't afford it.

Certain things are allowed as an exception to the rule, such as the cheapest computer, which is required if you need to do any writing, the inventor's bench and the sculptor's bench, which are both required by Da Vinci. If an item is required by a particular restriction, then you may purchase it even if it costs over 500 simoleons.

If you have a sim in Architecture or in Stylist, the drafting table is allowed as an exception for them, even if Da Vinci has not been lifted. Once Da Vinci is lifted, everyone can use those items.

"No Cabs" Rule/Science Car Rule:
You basically can't leave the home lot (except for work/school) even after Military has been cleared. You have to clear either Military + Architecture + Science (before you can buy a car) or clear Military + Law Enforcement(Spy) + Stylist + Science and thus "go with" someone (especially family members) isn't necessary anymore. Because if you don't have a car the sims will take a cab to "go with" (except of course if you meant by that rule that you send two sims individually to the same lot at the same time).
Also about "go with" Rules. Do they apply to going to stores as well?

you can use a bicycle or you can run or walk.

Ok, I think I see the confusion on the Architecture rule - it is SPECIFICALLY for build items and for decorative or household items, like furniture, fixtures or appliances.

I'll rethink the go-with thing, since if a sim is single and there isn't anyone else in the household, it makes that kind of unworkable.

Culinary:
"If an heir outlives both their parents and they have not yet moved in a spouse, they can only eat quick meals from the fridge." & "Sims may only prepare group meals if there are more than 1 sim living on the lot." is that just saying the same thing twice or does that mean that if your heir has siblings living on the lot to have to let them starve?
Is it allowed to Buy Things from the Miscellaneous Tab in Appliances?

If a sim is the ONLY one living on the lot, they may only have quick meals. If a sim is NOT the only one living on the lot, they may prepare group meals.

Film-Director:
"Sims may not attend parties thrown by resident townies." Is it allowed to attend parties by spares & relations that you moved out? or are they now townies?

If you move sims out of the household into their own lots, they become resident townies. You may not attend their parties.

Criminal Mastermind:
Is the Difference between the Rules on Purpose? In Rule 1 you don't pay for "Creations" of your sims. In rule 2 you do?
Do you have to pay protection money on the things in your family inventory (except for the big lemon) in rule 1? Like The Career Rewards.

I'm a bit confused. Can you quote which rules you are concerned about?

Journalism:
"When Sims use the paper to Look for Job, they may only select the first of the three jobs that appears in the paper that day. The 2nd and 3rd jobs may not be taken. " If this 1st or 2nd career has been cleared does the Sim still have to take it? (thus making that Sim an annoying Spare that doesn't do anything productive). For the "Master Thief" -Rule this is the Exception.

Read through the rules again - that has been addressed.

Challenge Rules:
"They have to keep this job till they reach level 10 in it or they are fired"; Master-Thief :"You are not allowed to just up and quit your job for no good reason." So it is allowed to quit the Job after Level 10?

A sim may quit their job when they reach level 10 and thus have lifted that particular restriction.

Military:
"Sims may not take the subway (it's full of zombies) even if science has been cleared. " It doesn't say anything about the Subway in the Science Rule anyway. Just about Cars, Motorbikes.

Yeah, I should change that. No science, no working subway.

Middle Of Nowhere Rule:
Building more than 2 of each a day: gets cleared by Architecture, right?!?

Business I think. I'll have to look.

Descendant of DaVinci:
It doesn't restrict having or practicing other instruments, right?

No other instruments till Rock Star is cleared, I believe. If I didn't put that in there, I did mean to.

Amazing Naturalist:
"Autumn Salad, Fruit Parfait and any other dish that requires vegetables or fruits may not be prepared, ordered at restaurants or bought pre-made." & "Sims may not prepare, purchase from community lots or eat Sushi, Grilled Salmon, Lobster Thermidor or any other dish containing fish. " So the only allowed dishes are: Waffles, Grilled Cheese, Hot Dogs, Mac & Cheese, Cheesesteak, Cookies & Shawarma ?!? because all other reciped use either vegetables, fruit or fish.

Pretty much.

On the wiki page you have a "lifetime rewards restrictions" page. that list and the rules don't match. i can tell you exactly which restrictions are missing from the rules page cause i made a list i actually made a list of everything that is restricted and by what (Jobs, Social Interactions, Buying, etc)anybody want that list? it's an excel-spreadsheet. it might not make sense to anyone but me though

Right now, things are in a state of flux. I've been amending rules and haven't had time to do anything else with the site. If you have a database - would you consider putting that up on the Wiki for me? Just let me know so I can look it over. I've been meaning to do this for some time, but other things have held my attention.

It doesn't say anything in the wiki about the speed to play the challenge. i also don't like the idea to have to play normal though. (like you said here) it seems fine to me because i get bored otherwise but to force it n people seems harsh

Speed? Do you mean aging? If you mean if you can play on high speed so time goes fast - that's an individual thing and not directed by the rules.

As far as playing on normal aging - it's part of the challenge. You can get through ALL of the restrictions if you have it on Epic. What's the challenge in that?

Currently, for folks who do not use mods to fix EA's glitches, bugs and problems, the only way to reasonably do the challenge is if you have aging set to long. It's stupid, but there it is. EA needs to fix the game.

you said on the board that the 3+ inventory rule refers to stacks, not individual things? i didn't think so from the rules.

The rules were taken, as much as possible, from Pinstar's TS2 rules. IIRC, there was no stacking of items in inventory. I'm still undecided on this and am play testing thing before I make a final decision.

While you're developing Property or if your in the Architect Career are you restricted by the "1 Item per Day" - Rule (Middle of Nowhere)? Property will take forever and Architect will be impossible

Developing property under the middle of no-where rules - yes, it applies.

Working on Architect assignments - no, you are not restricted. That is spelled out in the Architect restrictions.

Here you said: Master Cerificates go in the family inventory (for scoring) ; wiki: "Earned skill master plaques must be placed on the lot or in the sim's family inventory. "

You may place them on the lot if you so chose. Placing them in your family inventory is a safer place for them, however, since you won't inadvertently delete them when you change walls around.

Ok, and some purely "understanding" Problems, because my game isn't in English

Film-Actor:
What do you mean by "Recreations Tab"? The one with the fireworks or the one with all the skill objects?

Recreations - the parties, dance floors, disco lights, etc. The one with the balloons on it. The exception is that if you have cleared culinary, you may purchase birthday cakes.

Architect:
"No space completely enclosed by wall elements is allowed..." Do you mean rooms? Even if they have a door?

On community lots, you may not have a room entirely enclosed by walls. They can have a door, just not entirely enclosed rooms.

The Amazing Naturalist:
"You may not buy ***** with flowers from the buy tab. " Does that mean Plants in general or really just Flower *****?

Plants in general.

edited to add: i can't understand why they restrict the word "..." then again i'm not a native speaker. maybe i'm missing something. i mean the things you commonly put flowers in

I don't know why the forum blocks the word p.o.t.s either.

They may keep their job if they are already employed - in fact if they have employment in a restriction career that hasn't been lifted yet (and isn't otherwise restricted itself), that is a very good strategy to use. If you marry in someone who has already reached level 10 in a career, that restriction is automatically lifted - bonus for you!!

i didn't get that from the rules. even if the moved in sim is a female? because it's impossible for them to have the next heir before lifting the restriction. "the spouses to heirs who have ushered in the next generation (the heir to the previous heir is born) can unlock restrictions"

It is in the rules - read through the first bits

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

This applies to everything under the buy and build tabs respectively. The grocery store and book store are not thus restricted as they have the item on hand.

again. i didn't get that from the rules. "appliances" for me really only refered to appliances, not to everything.

The cheapest available items means just that - what ever is the cheapest available item of that type in the category. Decorative buy mode items and furnishings are restricted to $500 or less Other items, you just have to go with the cheapest available option.

One exception is the TV - you don't have to get the old timey TV. You can get the next one better - because you can upgrade it to be able to watch the fishing channel - which you need to do to max fishing for Da Vinci. Oh, and speaking of that .... you are allowed to take a class in fishing if restrictions on classes haven't otherwise been lifted yet. That's because there are no books to teach the skill. The only two ways to get level 1 in fishing is to either take the class at the grocery store or to just go fishing.

Science makes it so you can't use the phone for anything but calling in to work or calling friends - it's only a glorified Motorola short wave portable radio. Once science is cleared, the phone is an actual phone again.

Private Eye makes it so there is limited bandwidth on the computers and mobile phones, limited bandwidth on the short wave radios and limited accessibility on land line phones so that you can only call to chat with friends and acquaintances on the specified days ...

again, i didn't get that from the rules. it seems inconsistent with how the rules are usually worded. for me it meant: until science is cleared: no using phones for vacations,property,services, etc (everything except calling friends & quitting work)... until private eye is cleared no using phones for vacations,property,services, etc (everything except calling friends & quitting work) except on mondays and thursdays where you could check on property, go on vacations, call services, etc. ... so both have to be cleared to do anything with the phone anytime, but once science is cleared you have mondays & thursdays to do those things. i think if you mean it the way you just now said you should maybe word it differently, like "using the phone is prohibited, except on mondays and thursdays where you may call friends or quit work."

Think of it in terms of role playing a bit. The REASON phone use is restricted by science is because the cell phones don't work - what you have is a short wave radio (pretend here). Once science is cleared, you actually have a full featured phone. Before science is cleared, you do not.

The REASON Private Eye restricts phone use is because the coach, the mayor and the business tycoon are all conspiring to rob the town of bandwidth and accessibility. Again - role play some and pretend.

If science is lifted but private eye is not, you can use the phone to do more than just call friends. If science is NOT lifted but private eye IS - then you can call your friends all the time, but you can't use it to check up on work, hire a maid etc..

i'm just pointing these "misunderstandings" out because i think other people might have the same problem & you asked for comments

all the best

No worries

Thanks for you input!

God Bless,
mik

Herbstwinde · February 2011

hey,

thanks for answering that quickly.
More Questions or still unclear

Architecture Rule:
“Sims may not purchase anything with a comfort score over 4”
“Sims may not purchase anything with an environment score over 2”

I looked in my game and an online object catalogue and I couldn’t find any objects with a comfort score over 4. There is actually only one object with a comfort 4+. The “Beautiful Boudoir Bed”. Did you maybe mean the comfort, environment the other way around

or did you mean another score? But only beds and hot tubs additionally have Energy & Stress Relief

Hmm My hubby uses Awsome, but I didn't like it too well. I prefer Twallen's mods, personally, because I feel I have much more control over the settings.

I’ve never tried them. Probably I’m too lazy. I know what awesomemod does and I’d have to actually learn what twallens do

Ok, I think I see the confusion on the Architecture rule - it is SPECIFICALLY for build items and for decorative or household items, like furniture, fixtures or appliances.

Ah, ok, it all seems much clearer now

I'll rethink the go-with thing, since if a sim is single and there isn't anyone else in the household, it makes that kind of unworkable.

I didn’t even think about that, because it hasn’t come up but true.

Criminal Mastermind:

I'm a bit confused. Can you quote which rules you are concerned about?

„Criminal Mastermind Method I”
“Once per week, by midnight each Monday your Sims must sell off all replaceable items on their lot and in their inventory, and replace them with exact same item. “
“The Big Lemon purchased each week to pay rent on the consignment items you purchased at the begining of the challenge does NOT need to have protection money paid on it.”

„Criminal Mastermind, Method II“
“Add the value of any paintings, sculptures or inventions you have made. “
“Add the value of any items your kleptomaniac sims might bring home.”

I understand that if you do Method I you don’t need to pay Protections for Paintings, etc because they are not replacable Items, if you use Method II you do have to pay protection for them.
The Second question was because you specifically say that no Protection Money needs to be payed for the Big Lemon (which just sits in the family inventory so it didn’t even occur to me) if Protection money had to be paid for other things in the Inventory, like the Career Reward Computer, even if you can’t take it out yet.

Journalism:
"When Sims use the paper to Look for Job, they may only select the first of the three jobs that appears in the paper that day. The 2nd and 3rd jobs may not be taken. " If this 1st or 2nd career has been cleared does the Sim still have to take it? (thus making that Sim an annoying Spare that doesn't do anything productive). For the "Master Thief" -Rule this is the Exception.

Read through the rules again - that has been addressed.

Hehe, ok, I did. I’m still confused. So the way I understand it, the rules kinda stack on top of each other. If 2 rules restrict the same thing you have to clear both to be able to do that? So the way I understand it now:
if military + science aren’t cleared you have to take the first job from the newspaper regardless if that career has been cleared(= Journalism Rule); if military + science aren’t cleared but journalism is cleared you may take the first uncleared job from the newspaper (= Master-Thief Rule);
If science is cleared but Military + Journalism isn’t Sims have to take the first job on the computer. (=Master-Thief Rule), if Science + Master Thief is cleared, military isn’t, sims’s may look through all the listings on the computer (Journalism-Rule)

If you have a database - would you consider putting that up on the Wiki for me? Just let me know so I can look it over. I've been meaning to do this for some time, but other things have held my attention.

Do you mean upload it as a file or make it into websites? The second would take me some time the first I’m not sure how to do

or if it’s even possible. Can you upload Resources?

It doesn't say anything in the wiki about the speed to play the challenge.

Speed? Do you mean aging?
As far as playing on normal aging - it's part of the challenge. You can get through ALL of the restrictions if you have it on Epic. What's the challenge in that?

Currently, for folks who do not use mods to fix EA's glitches, bugs and problems, the only way to reasonably do the challenge is if you have aging set to long. It's stupid, but there it is. EA needs to fix the game.

They sure do. Yes I meant the aging. I just meant to say that I think it doesn’t actually say anything on the wiki about that. But I agree if you play without mods it’s impossible on normal aging. And of course it would be boring/too easy if aging is set on anything but normal but I think some people might need more time because they are bad at micro managing

you said on the board that the 3+ inventory rule refers to stacks, not individual things? i didn't think so from the rules.

The rules were taken, as much as possible, from Pinstar's TS2 rules. IIRC, there was no stacking of items in inventory. I'm still undecided on this and am play testing thing before I make a final decision.

I think it probably wouldn’t make a huge difference either way, because there's so many restrictions about what you can have in your inventory at all and on selling and buying. In my game athletic is also always one of the first jobs, comes up very often. I wonder about that. Might not be true for everyone though.

While you're developing Property or if your in the Architect Career are you restricted by the "1 Item per Day" - Rule (Middle of Nowhere)? Property will take forever and Architect will be impossible

Developing property under the middle of no-where rules - yes, it applies.

Working on Architect assignments - no, you are not restricted. That is spelled out in the Architect restrictions.

Yeah that seems logical of course. I was trying to point out that in the Architect Restrictions on the wiki it right now just says that you are not restricted to the building of 2 items of each per day if you are on Assignments. Nothing about the other general or architecture restrictions.

i didn't get that from the rules. even if the moved in sim is a female? because it's impossible for them to have the next heir before lifting the restriction. "the spouses to heirs who have ushered in the next generation (the heir to the previous heir is born) can unlock restrictions"

It is in the rules - read through the first bits

Ok. That quote was from the beginning of the rules. I just meant to say that the way I understood it is that the next heir has to have been born before the spouses are able to even try to lift restrictions. Now I understand that they can get to 10 of the career before the heir is born but the restriction is only considered lifted if they then also produce the next heir.

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

This applies to everything under the buy and build tabs respectively. The grocery store and book store are not thus restricted as they have the item on hand.

again. i didn't get that from the rules. "appliances" for me really only refered to appliances, not to everything.

The cheapest available items means just that - what ever is the cheapest available item of that type in the category. Decorative buy mode items and furnishings are restricted to $500 or less Other items, you just have to go with the cheapest available option.

Ok, my question is or how I understand it (now):

Build/Buy-Interface (that is clear in the rules actually):
Buying anything over 500 (except when necessary or if no cheaper option is available)
– restricted by Architecture
Buying anything that isn’t the cheapest option (in any category)
- Restricted by Business
Buying any but the cheapest appliances
- Restricted by Architecture

If Business is lifted but Architecture is not:
You can buy anything you want (Furniture, Plumbing, etc), even not the cheapest options, as long as it’s under 500. Except you can’t buy any - but the cheapest – Appliances (Ovens, Washing Machines, etc.), because that is still restricted by architecture. Taking into account that of course culinary or medical or whatever restricts the specific item have to be cleared to be able to buy the object in question at all.

This seemed clear to me in the rules. The confusion started here on the board.

One exception is the TV - you don't have to get the old timey TV. You can get the next one better

That makes sense.

Science makes it so you can't use the phone for anything but calling in to work or calling friends - it's only a glorified Motorola short wave portable radio. Once science is cleared, the phone is an actual phone again.

Private Eye makes it so there is limited bandwidth on the computers and mobile phones, limited bandwidth on the short wave radios and limited accessibility on land line phones so that you can only call to chat with friends and acquaintances on the specified days ...

If science is lifted but private eye is not, you can use the phone to do more than just call friends. If science is NOT lifted but private eye IS - then you can call your friends all the time, but you can't use it to check up on work, hire a maid etc..

Maybe I’m slow. I understand this: The Restrictions stack on top of each other, so:
1. Version
Science uncleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Monday, Thursdays: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Other Days: No Use of Phone at all
Science uncleared + Private Eye cleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science cleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Mondays, Thursdays: call Aqauintances, quit Work, call Services, etc.
Other Days: No Use of Phone at all
Science + Private Eye cleared:
Do whatever you want whenever you want(except restricted by others of course)

2. Version (how I understood it from the wiki)
Science uncleared + Private Eye uncleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science uncleared + Private Eye cleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science cleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Mondays, Thursdays: call Aquaintances, quit Work, call Services, etc.
Other Days: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science + Private Eye cleared:
Do whatever you want whenever you want(except restricted by others of course)

Is it Version 1 or 2 ?
From the “Idea” Version 1 would make more sense I think.

Btw, I found it a bit rude to point out to read the rules or role-play. I read the rules very very carefully and often and I do understand the “Idea” of the restrictions. If I have a question it is either because I’m misunderstanding the rules or another possibility is, that the rules aren’t always clear to someone who hasn’t written them themselves.
You asked for feedback (or "playtesting" - which is impossible if something is unclear) & I’m giving it. I have no problem being told I understood something wrong, I do have a problem being schooled like a child if I point out a place where I see an unclear rule or even inconsistency in the rules.

mikitta47 · February 2011

hey,

thanks for answering that quickly.
More Questions or still unclear
Architecture Rule:
“Sims may not purchase anything with a comfort score over 4”
“Sims may not purchase anything with an environment score over 2”

I looked in my game and an online object catalogue and I couldn’t find any objects with a comfort score over 4. There is actually only one object with a comfort 4+. The “Beautiful Boudoir Bed”. Did you maybe mean the comfort, environment the other way around or did you mean another score? But only beds and hot tubs additionally have Energy & Stress Relief

It is on my to do list to amend that. I've been working on other things this last week and haven't gotten to new updates. There's still a lot of TS2 specific language in the rules.

Hmm My hubby uses Awsome, but I didn't like it too well. I prefer Twallen's mods, personally, because I feel I have much more control over the settings.

I’ve never tried them. Probably I’m too lazy. I know what awesomemod does and I’d have to actually learn what twallens do

Awesome is a good mod – it didn't play well with my system, however, and I stopped using it (it was causing some crazy bad glitches for me). I had used Twallen's mods for TS2 back in the day and really liked them, so when the whole LN moodlet fiasco came about, I went with him again. It's all a matter of preference as the mods he writes do essentially the same things that Awesome does, they just do it in different ways. My system just plays better with Twallen's for some reason.

Criminal Mastermind:

I'm a bit confused. Can you quote which rules you are concerned about?

„Criminal Mastermind Method I”
“Once per week, by midnight each Monday your Sims must sell off all replaceable items on their lot and in their inventory, and replace them with exact same item. “
“The Big Lemon purchased each week to pay rent on the consignment items you purchased at the begining of the challenge does NOT need to have protection money paid on it.”

„Criminal Mastermind, Method II“
“Add the value of any paintings, sculptures or inventions you have made. “
“Add the value of any items your kleptomaniac sims might bring home.”

I understand that if you do Method I you don’t need to pay Protections for Paintings, etc because they are not replacable Items, if you use Method II you do have to pay protection for them.
The Second question was because you specifically say that no Protection Money needs to be payed for the Big Lemon (which just sits in the family inventory so it didn’t even occur to me) if Protection money had to be paid for other things in the Inventory, like the Career Reward Computer, even if you can’t take it out yet.

Ahh ok – the big lemon thing – that is for folks who don't like opening their cheat console and typing in familyfunds nameoffamily simoleonamount. The Big Lemon IS your protection payment (or rental charge depending on how you look at it). You can use that throughout the challenge instead of selling and buying back those specific items, but anything else has to be accounted for according to Criminal Mastermind rules.

Journalism:
"When Sims use the paper to Look for Job, they may only select the first of the three jobs that appears in the paper that day. The 2nd and 3rd jobs may not be taken. " If this 1st or 2nd career has been cleared does the Sim still have to take it? (thus making that Sim an annoying Spare that doesn't do anything productive). For the "Master Thief" -Rule this is the Exception.

Read through the rules again - that has been addressed.

Hehe, ok, I did. I’m still confused. So the way I understand it, the rules kinda stack on top of each other. If 2 rules restrict the same thing you have to clear both to be able to do that? So the way I understand it now:
if military + science aren’t cleared you have to take the first job from the newspaper regardless if that career has been cleared(= Journalism Rule); if military + science aren’t cleared but journalism is cleared you may take the first uncleared job from the newspaper (= Master-Thief Rule);
If science is cleared but Military + Journalism isn’t Sims have to take the first job on the computer. (=Master-Thief Rule), if Science + Master Thief is cleared, military isn’t, sims’s may look through all the listings on the computer (Journalism-Rule)

The rule for Journalism states ...

When Sims use the paper to Look for Job, they may only select the first of the three jobs that appears in the paper that day. The 2nd and 3rd jobs may not be taken.

* If Military is cleared, sims may walk to the rabbit hole of their choice to get a job.
* If Science is cleared, sims may use the computer to get a job. Sims may browse through all listings.

And the rules for Master Thief state ...

# Sims MUST take the first job in the paper on the first day of the challenge, no exceptions - or they can use the alternate rule and randomly determine their job.
# Subsequent sims must take the first job in the paper on the first day they look for a job, UNLESS that career track has been cleared by another sim already. Then they may take the second job (or the third if the second career track has been cleared). They may wait as many days as they need to get a job in a career track that has not been cleared. They MUST take the first uncleared career track job available in the paper on what ever day they are looking.

* If Science has been cleared, sims may use the news paper OR the computer to find a job, but they must take the first listed job available, taking in to account what restrictions have already been lifted.
* If Military has been lifted, you may use the random method to find a job. If you roll an option where one of the choices has already been cleared, you automatically get the one that hasn't. If you roll an option where both choices have already been cleared, you can roll again. For example, if you roll and get 1, the options are Business and Law Enforcement If Business has already been cleared, you must take the Law Enforcement job. If Business and Law Enforcement-Forensics have both been cleared but Law Enforcement-Special Agent have NOT been cleared, then you must still take Law Enforcement and chose the Special Agent branch at level 6. If Business and both Law Enforcement branches have been cleared, you must roll again.

The language for Journalism needs to be updated to be consistent with what is in the Master Thief rules.

Basically - if you don't have Master Thief cleared, you have to take random pot-luck on your job, even if you can walk there or look online for it. If Master Thief is lifted, you are not restricted to the first job in any media.

If you have a database - would you consider putting that up on the Wiki for me? Just let me know so I can look it over. I've been meaning to do this for some time, but other things have held my attention.

Do you mean upload it as a file or make it into websites? The second would take me some time the first I’m not sure how to do or if it’s even possible. Can you upload Resources?

If you sign up at Wikia, you can then edit any Wikia page you wish. There are simple guidelines, like letting the page owner know what changes you made by posting on the chat board for that page. You can put in content from a spread sheet, I believe, and the Wikia engine will do the formatting. Otherwise, it's pretty simple to actually do formatting on Wikia. Most of it is WYSIWYG editing.

It doesn't say anything in the wiki about the speed to play the challenge.

Speed? Do you mean aging?
As far as playing on normal aging - it's part of the challenge. You can get through ALL of the restrictions if you have it on Epic. What's the challenge in that?

Currently, for folks who do not use mods to fix EA's glitches, bugs and problems, the only way to reasonably do the challenge is if you have aging set to long. It's stupid, but there it is. EA needs to fix the game.

They sure do. Yes I meant the aging. I just meant to say that I think it doesn’t actually say anything on the wiki about that. But I agree if you play without mods it’s impossible on normal aging. And of course it would be boring/too easy if aging is set on anything but normal but I think some people might need more time because they are bad at micro managing

I know I don't do micromanaging well at all. I ran some tests before installing those mods and it was awful trying to grind. It took 3 times longer than it should have to get the first generation grown up. That made me break my long standing rule of not running mods at all (I had a bad experience with Awesome ...)

For those running mods that fix EA's issues, then you should be running the challenge on normal. HOWEVER - I will be giving y'all a freebee of a certain number of days you can turn aging off, 10 or 20, I'm not sure yet. That is because so far, Three out of the 5 careers I've tested get cleared with no time to have a baby. I've tested Education (44 days), Science (41 days), Military (39 days) and Athletics (38 days). I'm currently testing Business and have reached level 3 in the first week. We'll have to see if that progression continues at that pace.

you said on the board that the 3+ inventory rule refers to stacks, not individual things? i didn't think so from the rules.

The rules were taken, as much as possible, from Pinstar's TS2 rules. IIRC, there was no stacking of items in inventory. I'm still undecided on this and am play testing thing before I make a final decision.

I think it probably wouldn’t make a huge difference either way, because there's so many restrictions about what you can have in your inventory at all and on selling and buying. In my game athletic is also always one of the first jobs, comes up very often. I wonder about that. Might not be true for everyone though.

Heh, I have gotten education in 3 of the last 5 tests I've run LOL! Education sucks because it's all charisma and mood based. Of course, in my tests, I choose a specific career, but I look at the paper out of curiosity just to see.

While you're developing Property or if your in the Architect Career are you restricted by the "1 Item per Day" - Rule (Middle of Nowhere)? Property will take forever and Architect will be impossible

Developing property under the middle of no-where rules - yes, it applies.

Working on Architect assignments - no, you are not restricted. That is spelled out in the Architect restrictions.

Yeah that seems logical of course. I was trying to point out that in the Architect Restrictions on the wiki it right now just says that you are not restricted to the building of 2 items of each per day if you are on Assignments. Nothing about the other general or architecture restrictions.

Here's the exact rule …

You may not place more than 2 items from each build mode category per day (2 wall sections AND 2 squares of paint AND 2 sections of flooring, etc. per the Middle of Nowhere Legacy handicap).
Deleted items count against the daily limit.
Ignore this rule on the first day of the challenge unless you have purchased a pre-built lot.
You may use Auto Roof on a prebuilt lot on the first day to replace the roof with a flat one, but after that you may not use it at all.
Sims in the Architecture career may ignore this rule while they are remoddeling client's houses. It is assumed that the clients have arranged the delivery of everything you need to make over their homes.

All restrictions apply to the home lot and to the community lots the legacy family owns. It does NOT apply at all to architecture assignments to redo other sim's homes. Though if Medical is not cleared, they may not have tubs and showers yet … and that may upset them :P

i didn't get that from the rules. even if the moved in sim is a female? because it's impossible for them to have the next heir before lifting the restriction. "the spouses to heirs who have ushered in the next generation (the heir to the previous heir is born) can unlock restrictions"

It is in the rules - read through the first bits

Ok. That quote was from the beginning of the rules. I just meant to say that the way I understood it is that the next heir has to have been born before the spouses are able to even try to lift restrictions. Now I understand that they can get to 10 of the career before the heir is born but the restriction is only considered lifted if they then also produce the next heir.

Ahh I got ya. If the next heir has not been born, you have to wait till the heir is born to lift the restriction – it is on hold until the heir is born. The married in spouse does not have to clear a whole different restriction. The job they already cleared counts – when the heir is born.

I had thought I copy/pasted that directly from Pinstar's original rules. I apologize that I had not.

Architecture: "Sims may not have any but the cheapest appliances available."

This applies to everything under the buy and build tabs respectively. The grocery store and book store are not thus restricted as they have the item on hand.

again. i didn't get that from the rules. "appliances" for me really only refered to appliances, not to everything.

The cheapest available items means just that - what ever is the cheapest available item of that type in the category. Decorative buy mode items and furnishings are restricted to $500 or less Other items, you just have to go with the cheapest available option.

Ok, my question is or how I understand it (now):

Build/Buy-Interface (that is clear in the rules actually):
Buying anything over 500 (except when necessary or if no cheaper option is available)
– restricted by Architecture
Buying anything that isn’t the cheapest option (in any category)
- Restricted by Business
Buying any but the cheapest appliances
- Restricted by Architecture

If Business is lifted but Architecture is not:
You can buy anything you want (Furniture, Plumbing, etc), even not the cheapest options, as long as it’s under 500. Except you can’t buy any - but the cheapest – Appliances (Ovens, Washing Machines, etc.), because that is still restricted by architecture. Taking into account that of course culinary or medical or whatever restricts the specific item have to be cleared to be able to buy the object in question at all.

This seemed clear to me in the rules. The confusion started here on the board.

Correct. I'm sorry for the confusion.

One exception is the TV - you don't have to get the old timey TV. You can get the next one better

That makes sense.

Had that one come up for me in play testing – it occurred to me that you couldn't skill up if you couldn't get the TV that could be upgraded for the fishing channel.

Science makes it so you can't use the phone for anything but calling in to work or calling friends - it's only a glorified Motorola short wave portable radio. Once science is cleared, the phone is an actual phone again.

Private Eye makes it so there is limited bandwidth on the computers and mobile phones, limited bandwidth on the short wave radios and limited accessibility on land line phones so that you can only call to chat with friends and acquaintances on the specified days ...

If science is lifted but private eye is not, you can use the phone to do more than just call friends. If science is NOT lifted but private eye IS - then you can call your friends all the time, but you can't use it to check up on work, hire a maid etc..

Maybe I’m slow. I understand this: The Restrictions stack on top of each other, so:
1. Version
Science uncleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Monday, Thursdays: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Other Days: No Use of Phone at all
Science uncleared + Private Eye cleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science cleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Mondays, Thursdays: call Aqauintances, quit Work, call Services, etc.
Other Days: No Use of Phone at all
Science + Private Eye cleared:
Do whatever you want whenever you want(except restricted by others of course)

2. Version (how I understood it from the wiki)
Science uncleared + Private Eye uncleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science uncleared + Private Eye cleared:
All Days: call Aquaintances, quit work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science cleared + Private Eye uncleared:
Mondays, Thursdays: call Aquaintances, quit Work, call Services, etc.
Other Days: call Aquaintances, quit Work … Services, etc. forbidden
Science + Private Eye cleared:
Do whatever you want whenever you want(except restricted by others of course)

Is it Version 1 or 2 ?
From the “Idea” Version 1 would make more sense I think.

It is version 1.

Btw, I found it a bit rude to point out to read the rules or role-play. I read the rules very very carefully and often and I do understand the “Idea” of the restrictions. If I have a question it is either because I’m misunderstanding the rules or another possibility is, that the rules aren’t always clear to someone who hasn’t written them themselves.
You asked for feedback (or "playtesting" - which is impossible if something is unclear) & I’m giving it. I have no problem being told I understood something wrong, I do have a problem being schooled like a child if I point out a place where I see an unclear rule or even inconsistency in the rules.

I am sorry you were offended and it was not my intention to come off as condescending or self righteous. Essentially, I am a very concrete sequential person. If you ask a question, I'll try to answer it as best I can - in a very concrete and sequential way.

From the questions about the phone, it seemed to me that you were not understanding why I was calling it essentially a glorified walkie talkie so I thought to explain my thought processes to you.

The questions about jobs were addressed in the rules so I directed you back to them. Albeit, I do need to amend the wording in Journalism to match the wording in Master Thief.

The bit about moving in a spouse who has already cleared a restriction but not yet ushered in the next heir – I thought I had copied that straight over from Pinstar's rules. Evidently I did not. I will try to get that amended.

I appreciate every bit of feed back that you can give me. I truly do. Please don't stop

Once again, I do apologize for coming off as rude. That was not my intention at all.

God Bless,
mik

mikitta47 · February 2011

Update to let y'all know I've got a couple of changes in. I haven't worked as diligently as I could have the last week or so. I've been ill with some sort of stomach virus since Friday (well, I was horridly ill Friday and Saturday, but my tummy is still kind of rumbly even now) so I didn't get much of anything done this weekend.

I'm working on a new challenge neighborhood updated for all expansions and stuff packs (ran into a snag with THAT today, too), so that has been taking a fair amount of my attention as well. I'm trying to construct the new N'hood so it ensures any given lot will get SOME walk bys ... I hope.

I apologize that updates are slow in coming. If any of you want to contribute to the wiki - you are welcome to do so. Just let me know what you put in so I can look it over and make sure everything is linked up nice and neat.

God Bless,
mik

Daedreem · February 2011

I just saw the updates here, hadn't looked last few days.. Thanks!

I'll have to pull your new version of the rules off the wiki, and into a document where I can reference them from my laptop while I play.
I have a couple favors to ask for the next time you edit the rules...

1 - I rarely ever say anything to anyone, but too much bad spelling causes bad moodlets for me... You've actually had a LOT in your rules... The majority of which is caught by spell-checkers and easily fixable... Every time I pull the rules, the first thing I have to do for my sanity is correct the same errors every time. If you use a word processor that has a spell-checker, would you mind running it to catch the typos before posting? - Sorry about this request, but I'm sure it bothers others, not just me, and should take next to no time if you have a spell-checker...

2. - Last time I pulled the rules, I looked high and low for a posting date or version number so I would be able to tell if it was updated...
Can you add one or the other? That way we'll know when changes are made without seeing you post here that you've done so.

Also... If you DO have the rules in a document (MS word or open office format or other) would it be possible for you to post a downloadable version? every time I pull the wording from the wiki I have to edit out all the embedded links like "EDIT"

PS. Even WITH my searchable document, I've been accidentally breaking too many rules... (sigh)
I didn't notice the ban on locking wishes until after I quit for the night last night... (I assume this means daily "promises"?)
I didn't notice that use of the phone was double-restricted... I've been using it to call "Acquaintances", but not "Strangers", and invite sims over once they became good friends any day... (sigh)
I guess that's how I cleared education quickly enough that my founder was able to have children born on the same day he aged up to adult using education... The hard part for me was getting enough friends and acquaintances to max charisma.

- I have no walk-by's either... The hood I used only had one location where I could add the huge lot, and it's several yards away from the street....
to be able to have 'walk-bys' I set myself the limit of the street and sidewalk on either side, despite not being attached to my lot... But since no one actually walked by I stretched it more... The house across the street had loads of visitors, including the family that lived there... Anytime I saw someone get out of their car standing on the sidewalk, even if it was obvious they were about to visit the neighbors if they were interactable I would tell my sim to greet them. Sometimes he ended up standing in the neighbor's front yard talking, but as long as they were on the front sidewalk when I said "greet them" and they had not reached the front door I treated it as a walk-by. Now, if I could have visited the actual house, it would have been much better. It took him forever to meet his "wife" that lived in that house.

I have a couple bugs in my game I wonder if you know how to fix?
One is the reason I said "Wife"...
Despite compatible signs and romantic interest, my founder and his girl cannot get in any tone higher than 'flirty'... Yet if laying in bed, they can obviously woohoo, as their children attest... I can't get them married or have backrubs, or anything else requiring more than flirting, yet when I tested without saving, they can dial the mood up with other sims, even with incompatible signs. I looked it up online, and people say that's a bug, but for some people they can't even get to "flirty" - Hopefully it's OK that the bloodline doesn't share a last name, since I didn't realize it was more than just too low of a mood to marry at first, and moved her in and got them 'busy'.

2- a LARGE section of my ground level floor has become bugged, so that it thinks there is an object sitting there. Sims cannot walk there, and I cannot place any objects there. (I suppose with move objects I could place things not requiring physical interaction like the stereo)
I've tried turning on every cheat I know- testingcheat, move objects, and buydebug hoping I could find and remove an invisible "object" but I had no luck... And I can't delete the platform and rebuild it... even the sledgehammer won't touch it because there is an 'object' there...

I do not know much about bug-fixing mods, you evidently do... Anything out there that can fix these?
And is there any way to make the children have the correct last name?

- Since you build worlds, I also wonder if you know how the huge meteor (or whatever it's called) works?

I'm using a downloaded 'hood called "Strangeville" that was based on TS2 Strangetown.
I had to use the exit without saving and reload tactic (with an outdated save

) the other day, either because of something done by the 'hood creator, or by a really unfortunate coincidence.
My founder (teacher level 10) and the twins (elementary students) were at the school when I was notified of the large shadow. - I couldn't get the kids out of the school, they were locked in until class was over. The founder got off work, and stepped out of the building, but the meteor hit before he could get in his car... so he barely survived.
EVERY child and teen in the hood was killed or glitched.
Since the huge meteor was INSIDE the school, the founder couldn't 'pick it up'.
Both his kids, last I was able to click on them, had 'Expire' in their que, however death was so busy, he seemed to give up after about the first 5 kids... the 2 girls were still in the family on the left side, but you couldn't click them... the game even was giving me 'curfew' warnings, that they should hurry home.
- Had it worked correctly, I would have very disgustedly accepted the situation and re-procreated... but with no picking up meteor and glitched undead sims... um.. no.

Anyway, after I quit without saving I went into edit town with cheats on, and went to the school lot. I couldn't find any spawners placed under the school. Was this an awful coincidence? or is the meteor spawner THERE, but wouldn't show on the lot? Would moving the school lot as is to a new empty lot fix it?

I tried demolishing the school, changing the lot to a 'meteor park' and building a new school, but my founder was then jobless, and the kids had c's instead of a's... so I went back to the original save.

Since then, I've been saving every day before school... But I'd like to know how that even works, so I know if it's going to be possible to ever clear alien tech.. because if it'll only hit the school, there's no way to pick it up, and likely no way to survive it, and would be a true apocalypse for the town's population even if I did.

(PPS. Before I started, I tried to get your viper bay... but it didn't seem to be available in the exchange, or the other file-hosting site... when I click your links to get there, I get a message saying I can use that site to upload and offer content, rather than getting the content. - [I wasn't 100% set on yours anyway, because you stated you made collectible resources more sparse than normal... I feel that at least rocks and gems would be the same before and after the apocalypse.. and as for seeds and bugs, they're hard enough to find NORMALLY... much less when you cannot buy the 'collection helper'])

Baby's awake...
Hope my first request didn't offend...
And thanks for the time you're spending on the challenge.

Last thing... I think you've said before you're planning on either using color-coding, or some other method to make the rules less confusing?

For instance: - Fast learner reward is covered by both education and (science? no time to look ATM... I'll pretend that's right)

I didn't notice the second limitation at first, and the first thing I did for my founder after he hit education level 10 was reward him by buying fast learner since I thought he'd cleared it...
Are you planning to either use color-coding on things like the "Can't buy fast learner reward" rule to show it's in 2 different places, or add beside the rule (+Science) or something similar? This would really help, and I would do it with my own copy of the rules (had planned to in fact, after discovering I was missing things...) but if I DID correct my own copy that way, I'd have to redo it every time you updated the main rules...
- If you want to share documents with me if you use either MS Word or Open Office, I'd be glad to add the cross-referencing FOR you, and spell-check too.

That way it would save you time to work on the rules, and would save everyone a headache including you by having the rules be a bit clearer where *I* could assist. - Let me know if you want to do this, and I'll post you my user ID using gmail so you can email me. - 24 hours later I would delete the post or message (If you accept them) containing my user ID, and with a post I wouldn't mention gmail.com in it anyway.

you'll have to use your human brain to combine it as bot's cannot.

OK.. baby is fully awake now. Dag-dag.

mikitta47 · February 2011

Daedreem wrote:

I just saw the updates here, hadn't looked last few days.. Thanks!

I'll have to pull your new version of the rules off the wiki, and into a document where I can reference them from my laptop while I play.
I have a couple favors to ask for the next time you edit the rules...

1 - I rarely ever say anything to anyone, but too much bad spelling causes bad moodlets for me... You've actually had a LOT in your rules... The majority of which is caught by spell-checkers and easily fixable... Every time I pull the rules, the first thing I have to do for my sanity is correct the same errors every time. If you use a word processor that has a spell-checker, would you mind running it to catch the typos before posting? - Sorry about this request, but I'm sure it bothers others, not just me, and should take next to no time if you have a spell-checker...

I absolutely rely on spell checkers, because as you have noticed mine is pretty bad. There is a bit of a problem with the wiki though and putting in an Open Office doc into it. When I copy and paste the rules into OE, it strips all the tags that make things organized on that page. Things like headers, bolding, color coding, italics and all. If I get things looking pretty in OE and paste it into the wysiwyg editor for Wikia, there is no formatting and it takes me HOURS to reformat it. I made the decision early on that dealing with the misspellings early on and trying to catch them manually was the better part of valor. I wish their editor allowed my browser's spell checker to work

There is one thing I can do, which is check it in source view (where you see the mark up code in a plain text editor) as that does catch the misspelled words - but so MUCH is underlined in red because of the way the mark up is written that I still miss things - and I run the risk of really screwing something up if I mistakenly delete a tag or an expression. BUT I'm willing to try that.

2. - Last time I pulled the rules, I looked high and low for a posting date or version number so I would be able to tell if it was updated...
Can you add one or the other? That way we'll know when changes are made without seeing you post here that you've done so.

I've started adding a line on the wikia's TALK page about if I've updated anything. Just a blurb - so you will have to look at the date of the posting for that - but they do have a time stamp on the talk page
.

Also... If you DO have the rules in a document (MS word or open office format or other) would it be possible for you to post a downloadable version? every time I pull the wording from the wiki I have to edit out all the embedded links like "EDIT"

I haven't been doing a dual upkeep.

PS. Even WITH my searchable document, I've been accidentally breaking too many rules... (sigh)
I didn't notice the ban on locking wishes until after I quit for the night last night... (I assume this means daily "promises"?)
I didn't notice that use of the phone was double-restricted... I've been using it to call "Acquaintances", but not "Strangers", and invite sims over once they became good friends any day... (sigh)
I guess that's how I cleared education quickly enough that my founder was able to have children born on the same day he aged up to adult using education... The hard part for me was getting enough friends and acquaintances to max charisma.

It is an enormous document - almost 50 pages of walled text. It's easy to miss something. Cut yourself some slack and when you notice that you have inadvertently broken a rule - just fix it.

- I have no walk-by's either... The hood I used only had one location where I could add the huge lot, and it's several yards away from the street....
to be able to have 'walk-bys' I set myself the limit of the street and sidewalk on either side, despite not being attached to my lot... But since no one actually walked by I stretched it more... The house across the street had loads of visitors, including the family that lived there... Anytime I saw someone get out of their car standing on the sidewalk, even if it was obvious they were about to visit the neighbors if they were interactable I would tell my sim to greet them. Sometimes he ended up standing in the neighbor's front yard talking, but as long as they were on the front sidewalk when I said "greet them" and they had not reached the front door I treated it as a walk-by. Now, if I could have visited the actual house, it would have been much better. It took him forever to meet his "wife" that lived in that house.

I'm mulling over different iterations of the rules to address the "no walk by's" issue. Among the things I'm thinking of being able to go in a certain "zone" where you can freely walk and wander during daylight areas, being able to walk anywhere on a sidewalk or road, but you can't enter other sims' houses, doing the 1 time a week community lot visit, and other variations on that theme. I will post to let everyone know when I've decided just HOW it will be addressed.

I have a couple bugs in my game I wonder if you know how to fix?
One is the reason I said "Wife"...
Despite compatible signs and romantic interest, my founder and his girl cannot get in any tone higher than 'flirty'... Yet if laying in bed, they can obviously woohoo, as their children attest... I can't get them married or have backrubs, or anything else requiring more than flirting, yet when I tested without saving, they can dial the mood up with other sims, even with incompatible signs. I looked it up online, and people say that's a bug, but for some people they can't even get to "flirty" - Hopefully it's OK that the bloodline doesn't share a last name, since I didn't realize it was more than just too low of a mood to marry at first, and moved her in and got them 'busy'.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am so very VERY glad I don't have that particular bug. It's bad enough with the ones I DO have.

It is possible that Twallen's or Pescado's mods might help you out. Awesome is what is called a "CORE" mod, which means it affects things from a base program level. He puts in little fixes and tweaks for things so they run more smoothly. He also makes you re-download the thing every week as he puts out updates that often.

Twallen's Nraas mods work differently as they are NOT core mods - they are more like overlays to the main program. I don't know if Twallen has addressed the romance bug or not, but you may be able to fix things with the story progression mod.

2- a LARGE section of my ground level floor has become bugged, so that it thinks there is an object sitting there. Sims cannot walk there, and I cannot place any objects there. (I suppose with move objects I could place things not requiring physical interaction like the stereo)
I've tried turning on every cheat I know- testingcheat, move objects, and buydebug hoping I could find and remove an invisible "object" but I had no luck... And I can't delete the platform and rebuild it... even the sledgehammer won't touch it because there is an 'object' there...

When the lot gets THAT bugged you really only have one choice - you have to temporarily move the family out. Use the phone and put them on a small, empty lot - be sure to salvage any non-replaceable items like skill plaques and such. Once you have the family moved, go into Edit Town mode and bulldoze the challenge lot. Then go into the empty lot and rebuild the house as well as you can remember it. Return to game and use the phone to move your family back on to that lot. That should clear the invisible items problems.

I do not know much about bug-fixing mods, you evidently do... Anything out there that can fix these?
And is there any way to make the children have the correct last name?

You can install Twallen's Master Controller, which will allow you to manually change sims' names - both first and last. You have to be able to click on that sim though. His Story Progression mod allows you to set things up so the kids get their dad's last name, or their mom's last name.

- Since you build worlds, I also wonder if you know how the huge meteor (or whatever it's called) works?

I'm using a downloaded 'hood called "Strangeville" that was based on TS2 Strangetown.
I had to use the exit without saving and reload tactic (with an outdated save ) the other day, either because of something done by the 'hood creator, or by a really unfortunate coincidence.
My founder (teacher level 10) and the twins (elementary students) were at the school when I was notified of the large shadow. - I couldn't get the kids out of the school, they were locked in until class was over. The founder got off work, and stepped out of the building, but the meteor hit before he could get in his car... so he barely survived.
EVERY child and teen in the hood was killed or glitched.
Since the huge meteor was INSIDE the school, the founder couldn't 'pick it up'.
Both his kids, last I was able to click on them, had 'Expire' in their que, however death was so busy, he seemed to give up after about the first 5 kids... the 2 girls were still in the family on the left side, but you couldn't click them... the game even was giving me 'curfew' warnings, that they should hurry home.
- Had it worked correctly, I would have very disgustedly accepted the situation and re-procreated... but with no picking up meteor and glitched undead sims... um.. no.

Anyway, after I quit without saving I went into edit town with cheats on, and went to the school lot. I couldn't find any spawners placed under the school. Was this an awful coincidence? or is the meteor spawner THERE, but wouldn't show on the lot? Would moving the school lot as is to a new empty lot fix it?

I tried demolishing the school, changing the lot to a 'meteor park' and building a new school, but my founder was then jobless, and the kids had c's instead of a's... so I went back to the original save.

Since then, I've been saving every day before school... But I'd like to know how that even works, so I know if it's going to be possible to ever clear alien tech.. because if it'll only hit the school, there's no way to pick it up, and likely no way to survive it, and would be a true apocalypse for the town's population even if I did.

The giant meteor is a random spawn introduced with Ambitions. There isn't a spawner specifically for it. I've had it hit 3 times in the year since I've had ambitions loaded. Two times it was on a residential lot. The third time, it was on the Stadium. I think what happens is that the game does a random check every so often, and when it comes up that your active household sims are in danger of being hit by that meteor, you get the message and have a chance to get them out of the way. If they are in a rabbit hole at the time - things have the ability to get buggy.

The time it hit at the stadium - everyone left the building and were rubber-necking at the sky. I ran my sim around the corner and the meteor landed on his fiance - which was a bummer, but I used the opportunity to cozy up to a young adult lass who was standing there as a survivor and married her in.

I think you did the best thing you could -which was reload a previously saved game. It proves the rule - save early, save often.

(PPS. Before I started, I tried to get your viper bay... but it didn't seem to be available in the exchange, or the other file-hosting site... when I click your links to get there, I get a message saying I can use that site to upload and offer content, rather than getting the content. - [I wasn't 100% set on yours anyway, because you stated you made collectible resources more sparse than normal... I feel that at least rocks and gems would be the same before and after the apocalypse.. and as for seeds and bugs, they're hard enough to find NORMALLY... much less when you cannot buy the 'collection helper'])

It's actually not that sparse. There aren't as many, say, fishing spawners, because there aren't as many places to fish, and there are NO harvestable plants since there isn't any living vegetation at the start of the game, but I have at LEAST one of every non-WA collectible spawner there (and a few WA ones to boot), with the more rare items being a bit farther out of the way.

or

Should take you to the download for Viper Valley.

Baby's awake...
Hope my first request didn't offend...
And thanks for the time you're spending on the challenge.

Last thing... I think you've said before you're planning on either using color-coding, or some other method to make the rules less confusing?

For instance: - Fast learner reward is covered by both education and (science? no time to look ATM... I'll pretend that's right)

I didn't notice the second limitation at first, and the first thing I did for my founder after he hit education level 10 was reward him by buying fast learner since I thought he'd cleared it...
Are you planning to either use color-coding on things like the "Can't buy fast learner reward" rule to show it's in 2 different places, or add beside the rule (+Science) or something similar? This would really help, and I would do it with my own copy of the rules (had planned to in fact, after discovering I was missing things...) but if I DID correct my own copy that way, I'd have to redo it every time you updated the main rules...
- If you want to share documents with me if you use either MS Word or Open Office, I'd be glad to add the cross-referencing FOR you, and spell-check too. That way it would save you time to work on the rules, and would save everyone a headache including you by having the rules be a bit clearer where *I* could assist. - Let me know if you want to do this, and I'll post you my user ID using gmail so you can email me. - 24 hours later I would delete the post or message (If you accept them) containing my user ID, and with a post I wouldn't mention gmail.com in it anyway. you'll have to use your human brain to combine it as bot's cannot.

OK.. baby is fully awake now. Dag-dag.

The color coding is specifically to denote what expansion a rule or restriction applies to. I'm slowly getting things changed so if something is restricted by more than one thing, I note it in parenthesis. I have not got it all done by any stretch, but it's happening slowly.

As for doing the cross referencing - you can sign up for a free account at Wikia and then you can actually do some of the editing of the Wikia yourself - correct my spelling, do the cross references, etc. Just note it on the Talk page that you did it.

The beauty of the Wikia is that if something were to happen so I could not keep it up - another person could always take over the editing and upkeep. And because it allows Wikia members to edit any pages that have not been specifically protected, the whole community who enjoys this challenge can contribute. It's not just ONE person doing it all.

I would love to see a cross referenced page that lists, say, the different opportunities that can pop up and what restricts weather you can take them or not. I've started another, but it's not complete or finished, that cross references the lifetime rewards and what restricts them. It needs to be finished. Having a list of items, their prices and what restricts them would be very useful too.

That's a lot of man-hours to put into things and I just haven't gotten to it yet. But if you are really good at that sort of thing - by all means GO FOR IT

If you would rather put it in a text file (or odf as the case may be) and email it to me - you can email me from Wikia I believe, as I have my settings done so that other users can contact me that way.

I would very much welcome your help!

God Bless,
mik

Daedreem · February 2011

Thanks for the reply.

I looked over the beginning of the updated rules, and had to really LOOK to find one spelling error.. (the word doesn't, which was written dosn't)
I hit the "edit" for the section, expecting it to prompt me to create an account and log in, but it instead allowed me to make the change without being logged in.

I thought you might want to know about that, as that setting seems extra risky..

I have a migraine ATM, but later when I have time to give the rules a good read, I'll see if I can find any other misspellings you missed. Thank-you very much for saving my 'too-picky' sanity!

I will try the moving them out of the house and rebuilding it fix you mentioned later... but it got me wondering...
Since the game thinks it is an "object" that is on the ground floor.. maybe I can just pack all their furnishings in family inventory, and "Sell furniture" when I move out? Maybe that would clear the stuck tiles without rebuilding?
I'm NOT packing the dirty laundry though..

They'll chunk it all in Crater lake when they rebuild.

- Just my luck that the first time I have a "once in 3 real years" event (which I'd have loved happening with less devastating results) it ended up being a game-killer.... Good to know it wasn't something the creator did to make Strangeville more... shall we say... Strange; however.

Thanks for all the info!

mikitta47 · February 2011

Wikia is built on the concept of the vast majority who contribute are out to improve the page.

If there ends up being trouble with a page troll, then I can lock things - and once the rules are solidly amended to their most final state - I WILL lock them so they can't be tampered with. Other pages will still be editable, however.

I really hope that a a few people will start contributing - doing cross references and such - because it's a really big job for just one individual.

I can't tell you how grateful I am that you are interested in doing some of these things!

God Bless,
mik

illusoryToast · February 2011

I don't understand why we have to buy these items:

The list of items you must buy are

The Small Brass Bed $425
The Chillgood Refrigerator $375
The Bargain John Commode $250
The Back to School Bookshelf $250
The Audiolite by Lofti Boom Box Radio $150
The Park N' Griddle Grill $150
The Plain Basin Sink $120
The Tablelicious Table $60
2 Exquisite Bistro Chairs ($40 each) $80

I don't like being limited in the items I can buy. Some of these items you won't even be able to use until later in the game like the grill. I just don't really understand why we first have to purchase them and then keep them on the lot the entire challenge.Why can't we sell them back when we unlock business?

mikitta47 · February 2011

If you don't like being limited to what items you can buy - this challenge is not for you because the ENTIRE CHALLENGE is about having restrictions on what you can do, use and buy = and then lifting those restrictions one by one.

As for the list, the only item you are unable to use right away is the grill. You must wait till you have moved in your spouse to use it.

The reasons I put this rule in are thus...

1. An alternate to the Criminal restriction at the beginning of the game - it gives you items you don't have to sell back as such. BUT the trade off is you have to pay "rent" on them for the duration of the game.

2. Eliminating the rule requiring you to start out with only 1740 simoleons (legacy challenge rules) to build your house requires a balancing alternate rule set that forces you start with no extra money for bills, etc. This is part of that balancing. You HAVE to get these items before you start building and before you purchase skill books on day one. It reduces the total money you have for building.

3. 'Paying rent' by purchasing the Big Lemon and sticking it into inventory gives you a visual reference for scoring. Though not entirely neccessary because you can just look at how many weeks your family has existed, There WILL be something in the scoring about selling back those big lemons and getting bonus points for the cash you got from them.

4. I thought it was a reasonable vehicle for role play.

Here is the deal guys - this is a challenge, but like ANY OTHER CHALLENGE OUT THERE - it is still your game. If you can't stand this bit of the rules, then don't use it - just buy the items you want and sell them back each week (including collecting godawful amounts of books in your inventory - you can' take them out, remember). It amounts to the same amount of money taken from the family.

God Bless,
mik

Daedreem · February 2011

Just to let you know.. with migraine (they sometimes last for days) and my hubby having no days off, I've been unable to do anything to help you... but I still do intend to.

- I don't know if I'll remember them, but I do have some questions... I always seem to get time to post when I've forgotten what's been bugging me for the last week.

- First, something that has absolutely nothing to do with the rules.

I mentioned before my founder cleared education...
He seems to have a magical friendship aura about him now... The minute he MEETS someone, he's friends... 5 seconds later, he's best friends with them. He doesn't even have to TALK to them.
He's at max charisma, and has completed all but the "traits" in-game challenge... I can't seem to clear that one.
-Is it normal for a TOC teacher (with great lecture effect) to have the friendship aura?
-Is it instead normal for Max Cha sims who have completed the ingame challenges to have that power?
-Or is it maybe the combination of the 2?
-Or is he just wonderfully wonderfully bugged?

I've never gotten TOC education before.. haven't had ambitions long.. Also have never had a sim complete so many Charisma challenges... So I'm clueless.
Oh.. and he's a 4 star celebrity... in case that has anything to do with it.
Mostly natural, partly from an 'oops'.
(I searched your rules for the word "agent" to see if any agent calls were allowed.... didn't find it, and looked everywhere I thought a restriction would be and didn't find it... So I was accepting the agent "work out 4 hours" opportunities... I can't seem to get any skill-based opportunities except from the agent.

I finally saw that restriction a day or 2 ago and sadly pass up "work out 4 hours" now.)

----
My teenagers have met every other teen in school, and originally only one seemed "legal". The others were either Vampires or Babysitters.. (are babysitters NPC's, or TOWNIE Npc's?) - The one guy that was left was no real prize... couch potato, slob, neurotic, and unknown... He was a 1 star celebrity in the film industry. Nowhere on his character information do I have "rich"... however a couple times in celebrity gossip, I've gotten that he is, so he's now off the market as well. luckily 3 YA sims have moved in across the street, so hopefully my girls will grow up before my pick of them gets married...
But for next time I want to know... Career, Babysitter... Are these illegal NPC's?
And, how are we supposed to get "Rich" revealed when we can't visit Sims at their homes? (In normal games, that's how I find out.)

----
My lot bugged out again after I moved and rebuilt within a week.. Luckily I saved a spare copy of my 2nd rebuild, so just had to edit it to add more floor tiles, etc, for the upgrades occuring within the last week.

This brings 2 things to mind...
-to discover why my lot is being bugged, I eliminated one of the several things the large open area that keeps bugging was used for by a slight cheat.... I moved the "portable" radio off the 8x8 area so they could work out in a less critical area... Now it's been 2 weeks, and the lot hasn't rebugged...

-An alternative taxing method might be just to keep a spare updated copy of your lot complete with taxable items, and move them every week. (sell furtiture) - This would give your sims a +15 mood boost for moving, is the bad thing... Also, it eliminates the laundry piles on a weekly basis... (unless you can transport them via family inventory) But it would keep bugs from slipping into your lot.
-Important.. if doing this move all books from the bookshelf to the sims or family inventory... I did this one of the 2 times, and had no problems... I didn't do this the second and the bookshelf bugged. books couldn't be read or removed from the shelf... luckily "take all" worked, even though I had to ignore 3 item limit to do it.... -- Important thing to note... the new bookshelf I bought to replace the bugged one came with 3 new skill books... but when I "sold" them, they were worth 0$ simoleons, same as the other books in the bookshelf, so deleting them was no problem.

---
AH! I finally remember the most important question I had, regarding the "cannot quit jobs at all" rule....
My "wife" was working science, and kept getting notice she could change careers to medical. I passed them up, not knowing if they were allowed, and amazingly wanting science more at that moment...
Before I could post here to ask though, she got the opportunity to switch from science 7 to Military 8.... Military is my #1 priority, so I couldn't bring myself to pass it up to come ask you about those...
-Are these "Job switches" where your boss comes to you and says "The 'x' career path really needs you" banned by the quit job rule? or allowed, since you aren't actually quitting, you're just transferring? - I'm expecting that if I for some reason have to quit/get fired from military, she can no longer take science OR military is one downside to taking the opportunity...

I'm sure I have more questions, but I'll stop at those...

-Just one note...
I kinda disagree with a couple things that you are coming as closely to pinstars original rules as you can... I know the games are very different so it is tough... but...
In the original, unless he changed the rules since I last looked, there were 2 very important decisions you had to make... your traits, and what order you cleared jobs...
Traits like Slob, that allowed 'lick clean'.. That interaction he allowed, but you don't if I remember correctly... If you chose slob, you could do it in pinstars... and it made for lots of strategizing.

Mooch didn't exist, but I think is another example of trait choices... I think rules need put in place to make it less powerful, however I don't think making it worthless is good... and if you can't mooch money before business (max of 4 simoleons per mooch? useless no matter what!) and can't mooch food before clearing culinary.. There's no reason at all to mooch food post culinary. - I think you should consider limits more like "only from Off-Lot best friends" or/and "Only once a week" or/and "only from off-lot family" instead of completely making that choice useless.

We can no longer strategize careers to clear first, (unless the switch opportunities are allowed) which is also completely different... I hated that at first, and still find it somewhat annoying, but it is less of a headache, and you've nicely fit it in as a restriction or few, so I accept that...

OK.. gotta run.
Looking forward to your reply.

mikitta47 · March 2011

Daedreem wrote:

Just to let you know.. with migraine (they sometimes last for days) and my hubby having no days off, I've been unable to do anything to help you... but I still do intend to.

I'm sorry you have been suffering w/ the migraine. I get them from time to time and they are just awful! *hugs*

- I don't know if I'll remember them, but I do have some questions... I always seem to get time to post when I've forgotten what's been bugging me for the last week.

- First, something that has absolutely nothing to do with the rules.
I mentioned before my founder cleared education...
He seems to have a magical friendship aura about him now... The minute he MEETS someone, he's friends... 5 seconds later, he's best friends with them. He doesn't even have to TALK to them.
He's at max charisma, and has completed all but the "traits" in-game challenge... I can't seem to clear that one.
-Is it normal for a TOC teacher (with great lecture effect) to have the friendship aura?
-Is it instead normal for Max Cha sims who have completed the ingame challenges to have that power?
-Or is it maybe the combination of the 2?
-Or is he just wonderfully wonderfully bugged?

Hmm I don't believe I've ever experienced that, so I can't answer it. Enjoy it though :P

I've never gotten TOC education before.. haven't had ambitions long.. Also have never had a sim complete so many Charisma challenges... So I'm clueless.
Oh.. and he's a 4 star celebrity... in case that has anything to do with it.
Mostly natural, partly from an 'oops'.
(I searched your rules for the word "agent" to see if any agent calls were allowed.... didn't find it, and looked everywhere I thought a restriction would be and didn't find it... So I was accepting the agent "work out 4 hours" opportunities... I can't seem to get any skill-based opportunities except from the agent. I finally saw that restriction a day or 2 ago and sadly pass up "work out 4 hours" now.)

Hmm I thought I had put it in that until the Film Actor career is cleared, you can't take any of those Celebrity oriented challenges. I'll make sure I've got it in there.

One of my goals - if I can find a good, comprehensive list of them - is to add in what opportunities you may or may not take corresponding to each restriction.

----
My teenagers have met every other teen in school, and originally only one seemed "legal". The others were either Vampires or Babysitters.. (are babysitters NPC's, or TOWNIE Npc's?) - The one guy that was left was no real prize... couch potato, slob, neurotic, and unknown... He was a 1 star celebrity in the film industry. Nowhere on his character information do I have "rich"... however a couple times in celebrity gossip, I've gotten that he is, so he's now off the market as well. luckily 3 YA sims have moved in across the street, so hopefully my girls will grow up before my pick of them gets married...
But for next time I want to know... Career, Babysitter... Are these illegal NPC's?
And, how are we supposed to get "Rich" revealed when we can't visit Sims at their homes? (In normal games, that's how I find out.)

Babysitters - while they are babysitters, they are off limits because they are a service sim. When they age up to YA, if they have a regular career, they become legal. If they take a service career like Maid or repair person, etc, then they remain illegal.

Rich sims - in Pinstar's original rules, you couldn't move in a rich sim because they brought in a TON of cash to the household. The most I've seen any married in sim bring with them is 2500 Simoleons. Now, here's a question for all of you. Have you seen any married in sim bring in MORE than that? If not, then the "no rich sims" rule may be obsolete. So please keep a watch out for that in your games please

----
My lot bugged out again after I moved and rebuilt within a week.. Luckily I saved a spare copy of my 2nd rebuild, so just had to edit it to add more floor tiles, etc, for the upgrades occuring within the last week.

This brings 2 things to mind...
-to discover why my lot is being bugged, I eliminated one of the several things the large open area that keeps bugging was used for by a slight cheat.... I moved the "portable" radio off the 8x8 area so they could work out in a less critical area... Now it's been 2 weeks, and the lot hasn't rebugged...

I've noticed that the radio really needs quite a bit of room around it for them to want to use it. I usually put it on the roof, or on the ground if my home is on stilts as this seems to avoid the lion's share of issues with it.

-An alternative taxing method might be just to keep a spare updated copy of your lot complete with taxable items, and move them every week. (sell furtiture) - This would give your sims a +15 mood boost for moving, is the bad thing... Also, it eliminates the laundry piles on a weekly basis... (unless you can transport them via family inventory) But it would keep bugs from slipping into your lot.
-Important.. if doing this move all books from the bookshelf to the sims or family inventory... I did this one of the 2 times, and had no problems... I didn't do this the second and the bookshelf bugged. books couldn't be read or removed from the shelf... luckily "take all" worked, even though I had to ignore 3 item limit to do it.... -- Important thing to note... the new bookshelf I bought to replace the bugged one came with 3 new skill books... but when I "sold" them, they were worth 0$ simoleons, same as the other books in the bookshelf, so deleting them was no problem.

Unless your lot is bugged, I can't see allowing a weekly move.

---
AH! I finally remember the most important question I had, regarding the "cannot quit jobs at all" rule....
My "wife" was working science, and kept getting notice she could change careers to medical. I passed them up, not knowing if they were allowed, and amazingly wanting science more at that moment...
Before I could post here to ask though, she got the opportunity to switch from science 7 to Military 8.... Military is my #1 priority, so I couldn't bring myself to pass it up to come ask you about those...
-Are these "Job switches" where your boss comes to you and says "The 'x' career path really needs you" banned by the quit job rule? or allowed, since you aren't actually quitting, you're just transferring? - I'm expecting that if I for some reason have to quit/get fired from military, she can no longer take science OR military is one downside to taking the opportunity...

If you are in 1 career and you get the opportunity to switch jobs, you may take that opportunity if you wish. You haven't called in to "quit work", you were offered a job at a different site. It is a good strategy for game play, however you are right about this - that if you should lose the job in the second career, you may never take a career in either the first or second one again. So that all figures in to how you play the challenge.

I'm sure I have more questions, but I'll stop at those...

-Just one note...
I kinda disagree with a couple things that you are coming as closely to pinstars original rules as you can... I know the games are very different so it is tough... but...
In the original, unless he changed the rules since I last looked, there were 2 very important decisions you had to make... your traits, and what order you cleared jobs...
Traits like Slob, that allowed 'lick clean'.. That interaction he allowed, but you don't if I remember correctly... If you chose slob, you could do it in pinstars... and it made for lots of strategizing.

Mooch didn't exist, but I think is another example of trait choices... I think rules need put in place to make it less powerful, however I don't think making it worthless is good... and if you can't mooch money before business (max of 4 simoleons per mooch? useless no matter what!) and can't mooch food before clearing culinary.. There's no reason at all to mooch food post culinary. - I think you should consider limits more like "only from Off-Lot best friends" or/and "Only once a week" or/and "only from off-lot family" instead of completely making that choice useless.

We can no longer strategize careers to clear first, (unless the switch opportunities are allowed) which is also completely different... I hated that at first, and still find it somewhat annoying, but it is less of a headache, and you've nicely fit it in as a restriction or few, so I accept that...

OK.. gotta run.
Looking forward to your reply.

In Pinstar's rules, you could make your founder ANYthing you wanted.

Lick clean - it is allowed. And keeping dirty dishes or spoiled food on the lot so slob sims may lick them clean is also allowed.

Mooch - I'll have to think on it a bit. I've never played with that trait before, so in my next test iteration, I'll run it through. Perhaps I'll make the rule that you can't choose to mooch from ANYone who is not a good friend, and then only one person mooched from once per sim day - which tempers it a little bit.

The careers - I made the decision to keep it random until Master Thief is cleared in order to keep things challenging. Being able to take job change opportunities balances it out.

Oh, one thing I just thought of - if you DO change careers and then get the opportunity to change back, you may not - due to the rule of if you ever quit or get fired from a job for any reason, you can't take a job in that career again. So if Sally Sim has a job in Business and gets the opportunity to switch to Politics, she may. But if she gets the opportunity to switch back to Business, she may not.

I've been taking a break from sims the last week or so. Been playing through Oblivion again. Funny how that game has as many bugs as the sims, but it's overall design is so good, it's still a great game. Of course, it' not a sand box, so it's like comparing apples to walnuts.

Anyway - Soon as I'm done with doing Oblivion, I'll be back on testing the challenge scenarios again :P

God Bless,
mik

Daedreem · March 2011

I have another "am I bugged, or is this normal, and what can I do about it within challenge rules" question...

My founder... The same sim as had the "Friendship aura" I mentioned earlier...
Finally kicked the bucket due to old age. As expected. His lifetime returned Education, Hopelessness, Military, Comforting children, the birth of 3 grandkids, and near-completion of Medical and Culinary... But that evidently wasn't enough for him.

About a week after he died, he returned for his first haunt.
Weeks later, he hasn't left.

He naps in my sims beds, when meals are served he grabs a serving (When the toddler conceived after his death transitions, it means someone's going hungry...) he poltergeists things every now and then, scared a Sim once.... But just will not go away.

He floated off to his grave once, and I thought "Finally"... but no. He went, Mourned, then poltergeisted the stone, then went back to the house for a nap.

I've had to buy a 9th bed for the ghost, so all my sims would have a place to sleep.

- My theory of why he's staying, if it's not just a random bug...
Except the new baby that filled his family member slot, everyone in the house is his best friend.. And is staying so, even though he's dead and they do not interact with him. (except meal small talk when he sits down with them)- His wife is SLIGHTLY not full green relationship... I think she got hit by a celebrity gossip thing since he started haunting, so I know their relationships can drop.

Even if I ignore GH restrictions, I do not know how to get rid of him...

Is he bugged?
How can I get de-haunted?
-I considered having everyone in the house argue with him and see if he'll leave... Even tho i'd hate having a mad ghost.
--PS. He no longer has his "Great Lecture" Moodlet aura he obtained from the education career... That's what I think was creating new friends for him even without him interacting with them.

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