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THE MOLE: SPY VS SPY!

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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    edited September 2017
    Yeah, I imagined Zelinda to be straight or even asexual, Jake.

    Haylo said over half of the guys and one-third of the cast, so I'm assuming he was thinking Paul, Giles, Ben, and Pacco, since The Gov and Wil are clearly straight.
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    HayloHuskyHayloHusky Posts: 14,656 Member
    edited September 2017
    Or Haylo just miscounted at 1am XD but hey at least it sparked discussion :P
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    Or Haylo just miscounted at 1am XD but hey it leash it sparked discussion :P

    Lol :lol: True, you got everyone trying to dissect what you meant. But I can see why someone would think Pacco isn't straight ;)
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    KelvinKelvin Posts: 6,899 Member
    I thought Pacco was non-hetero as well :p
    chicken-run-ginger-i-just-decided-i-dont-care-idc-gif-20619284.gif
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    BTW, there's been subtle hints about Paul's sexuality and tension with Giles from the start... ;)

    Pacco: "So who's sleeping with who??"
    Eva: "I do not advise that you phrase it like THAT..."
    Giles: "I don't mind sharing with a dude. Paul, you up for it? It's okay, I don't bite...often." ;-p
    Screenshot-60.jpg

    Paul: "Er... You know what. This room doesn't fit my style. I'll look elsewhere, thank you for your time."
    Screenshot-61.jpg



    Giles: "No way, he can't join this all-boys club until he strips down to his underwear like the rest of us!"
    Ben: "Ja! I think I read in the bible that the best meals are made naked..."
    Giles: "I think I read that too! I heard Adam was a legendary chef."
    Screenshot-5.jpg

    Paul: "Erm, hehe.... Th-that's alright. I-I'll come back another time, uhm. Yes. Excuse me."
    Screenshot-11.jpg


    ^For those two examples, MOST straight guys wouldn't make a fuss about sharing a bed with another dude, or changing in front of another man. However, Paul being Paul, is too shy and too nervous. He might not necessarily admit to himself that he's gay, but he knows he's had certain feelings for most of his life that he has yet to fully face, and being in the closet, doesn't want to face them, especially on international television. So he just represses his feelings a bit, which is usually pretty easy to do until you walk into a room of half-naked men. :lol: Then your cover gets closer to being blown considering men have a tell when they get turned on. ;) Making Paul's nervousness in the kitchen scene more pronounced.


    Oh, and there's also this lovely symbolic shot:
    Screenshot-24.jpg

    Paul is staring right at temptation (Giles), but instantly sees the word "Sin" written on the wall and immediately is reminded that to him, lusting after another man is sinful, so Paul just decides to suppress his feelings even further, which explains why he sighs right afterwards:

    Paul: *sighs heavily*
    Screenshot-22.jpg


    The timing of this reveal is also pretty funny, since it may even be the exact episode (11) that Whitney's secret was revealed last season? Both of which are huge shockers that have had subtle hints all season long. :p
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    KelvinKelvin Posts: 6,899 Member
    I didn't know Turner's going to ship them together but it seems to work out pretty well? :D
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    edited September 2017


    Media Representation of Minorities is a really interesting topic to me, so I'm going to get down into the nitty-gritty for a bit XD

    CeltyGirly wrote: »
    HayloHusky wrote: »

    Also, there seems to be too many characters that have unique sexualities this season XD The tally is like... 4 that aren't straight now right? Out of 12 people XD It seems like a bit too inaccurate O.O Considering how casting would want a diverse range of people, it would seem that for them to have over half of the guys in one season being gay, bisexual or other, and 1/3 of the total cast, seems like an anomaly XD Hahaha...

    I mean, I think it's a decent amount in an ideal world. With the fact that more people are LGBT than most people are willing to accept 1/3 is pretty decent. Also Paul is technically closeted so "casting" wouldn't have known even though Turner would have XD
    I didn't even give Maya a sexuality.


    Haha, true, good point! :p Casting wouldn't know themselves, and even though I found out, I didn't have much control over it at that point anyhow.

    But assuming Haylo is right; that a third of the cast has a unique sexuality (you can throw in Zelinda who may be asexual?), that really is over-representation. That's like this commercial I watched where literally 90% of the actors in it were gingers, and the commercial had nothing to do with hair color whatsoever and most of them weren't family members. :lol: It's just funny because most of the time, gingers or redheads aren't represented on TV, so to see them OVER-represented for once was quite comical.

    They say 15% of the public is LGBT.... Obviously that number is hard to pinpoint because not everyone is forthcoming with their sexuality. Let's just round that up to 20% because why not? So 20% is one-fifth. That's roughly 2.5 people out of 12? So 2 or 3. Therefore, 3 makes sense. 4 indeed might be stretching it, but I think it's fine considering you got a full range on the Kinsey Scale. Plus, oftentimes when you see the ONE gay or the ONE ginger or the ONE old person represented, it's more often than not a stereotype. So by having multiple individuals of a minority represented, you get a better depiction of the range of personalities WITHIN the minority, rather than just people thinking "this guy represents the entire minority".

    Of course, 12 people isn't a lot. :-b If we had a cast of 30, it would allow for a lot more diversity and accurate representation.

    ...But let's not forget V's quote from episode 1:
    "The cast this season are their very own melting pot, and not only culturally and ethnically."
    ^that was a hint that we got a broad spectrum of sexualities this season ;) Hehe.
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    edited September 2017
    Basically: I don't know how accurate that 15% number is, a few years ago it was 5%, then 10%, now the entire LGBT community is apparently OVER 15%, and I can't decide myself if that's close or not, but either way, 4 out of 12 is 33%, essentially DOUBLE the average. So I agree that may be considered as over representation, but so far only Paul, Giles, and Ben are confirmed LGBT, making it only a fourth of the cast which isn't bad at all. Just a pity that it's all guys and not any women. It would be more representative if you had a bi/gay woman in there, but who knows, perhaps we do? ;) (lol I'm pretty sure we don't though)
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    KelvinKelvin Posts: 6,899 Member
    edited September 2017
    Is over representation a bad thing? I think it's cool to have more sims from the minority group despite having lower chances.
    chicken-run-ginger-i-just-decided-i-dont-care-idc-gif-20619284.gif
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    WinteryGarnetWinteryGarnet Posts: 2,320 Member
    Turner wrote: »
    Basically: I don't know how accurate that 15% number is, a few years ago it was 5%, then 10%, now the entire LGBT community is apparently OVER 15%, and I can't decide myself if that's close or not, but either way, 4 out of 12 is 33%, essentially DOUBLE the average. So I agree that may be considered as over representation, but so far only Paul, Giles, and Ben are confirmed LGBT, making it only a fourth of the cast which isn't bad at all. Just a pity that it's all guys and not any women. It would be more representative if you had a bi/gay woman in there, but who knows, perhaps we do? ;) (lol I'm pretty sure we don't though)

    lol, typically when I make a one off character, one I don't plan to use after a particular project, I make a lesbian. However, the other thing is sometimes I just don't care about sexuality unless I feel the need to give them a romantic interest i.e. Maya is with Wil. However, sexuality isn't important to her character or story, so it's best to leave it alone. If I do make a legacy with her afterwards, maybe I'll decide, but for now we can just say she's cishet.
    In my novel series, my protagonist is a girl named Freya and she does not have an explicitly stated sexuality. It's not important to the narrative, and then it gives readers the chance to see her as whatever they'd like allowing them to relate to her on different levels. Other characters, however, have explicit sexualities and gender identities.

    Also about the 15%, it's so hard to calculate. So many people are closeted, especially because of legality and prejudice. I truly believe it has to be higher than 15%. I just don't think that's a calculable statistic.
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    WinteryGarnetWinteryGarnet Posts: 2,320 Member
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    Is over representation a bad thing? I think it's cool to have more sims from the minority group despite having lower chances.

    I wouldn't say it's a bad thing, we're mostly speaking theoretically since this is a forum game and not an actual show. I think more representation across the board is highly important, but even when mainstream media is a bit more diverse then everyone yells that they're playing the pandering card, which they sometimes are *sad music as I gaze at all the buried lesbians in media*
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    KelvinKelvin Posts: 6,899 Member
    edited September 2017
    I don't usually care about my sims' sexual orientation because I don't spend enough time playing them. Every time I'm done creating a sim I'm like leaving it in CAS bin and that's it (mostly creating my profile picture sims :p). Well, the thing is I don't usually use them as generation founders or add them to my current neighbourhood. I know this seems quite contradictory and pointless to some others including my friends asking me why I keep on making sims when I don't play the game the much but it's just that I enjoy creating sims more than actually playing the game :D (which probably doesn't make much sense anyway lol). It's just that I prefer taking screenshots and editing stuff and that's all I think? :b

    But only when I'm submitting a sim onto a show like the Mole, just like what Celty has said, will I be considering about this whole sexuality/showmance thing. Though to be honest I don't think I've ever created a fully-heterosexual male since I've got my hands on this game XD don't ask me why I'm just weird.

    I think that most of my characters/sims are highly 'disposable' and replaceable. I just don't keep them for long :p

    Submitting them onto a show is probably a better opportunity for me to keep their memory alive because that's when he or she's actually got a chance to live a proper life apart from staying in the CAS bin.
    chicken-run-ginger-i-just-decided-i-dont-care-idc-gif-20619284.gif
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    HayloHuskyHayloHusky Posts: 14,656 Member
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I don't usually care about my sims' sexual orientation because I don't spend enough time playing them. Every time I'm done creating a sim I'm like leaving it in CAS bin and that's it (mostly creating my profile picture sims :p). Well, the thing is I don't usually use them as generation founders or add them to my current neighbourhood. I know this seems quite contradictory and pointless to some others including my friends asking me why I keep on making sims when I don't play the game the much but it's just that I enjoy creating sims more than actually playing the game :D (which probably doesn't make much sense anyway lol). It's just that I prefer taking screenshots and editing stuff and that's all I think? :b

    But only when I'm submitting a sim onto a show like the Mole, just like what Celty has said, will I be considering about this whole sexuality/showmance thing. Though to be honest I don't think I've ever created a fully-heterosexual male since I've got my hands on this game XD don't ask me why I'm just weird.

    I think that most of my characters/sims are highly 'disposable' and replaceable. I just don't keep them for long :p

    Submitting them onto a show is probably a better opportunity for me to keep their memory alive because that's when he or she's actually got a chance to live a proper life apart from staying in the CAS bin.

    This speaks to me. This is exactly how I feel except I keep a record of all the sims I've made XD I never use them, I just like making them :3
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I don't usually care about my sims' sexual orientation because I don't spend enough time playing them. Every time I'm done creating a sim I'm like leaving it in CAS bin and that's it (mostly creating my profile picture sims :p). Well, the thing is I don't usually use them as generation founders or add them to my current neighbourhood. I know this seems quite contradictory and pointless to some others including my friends asking me why I keep on making sims when I don't play the game the much but it's just that I enjoy creating sims more than actually playing the game :D (which probably doesn't make much sense anyway lol). It's just that I prefer taking screenshots and editing stuff and that's all I think? :b

    But only when I'm submitting a sim onto a show like the Mole, just like what Celty has said, will I be considering about this whole sexuality/showmance thing. Though to be honest I don't think I've ever created a fully-heterosexual male since I've got my hands on this game XD don't ask me why I'm just weird.

    I think that most of my characters/sims are highly 'disposable' and replaceable. I just don't keep them for long :p

    Submitting them onto a show is probably a better opportunity for me to keep their memory alive because that's when he or she's actually got a chance to live a proper life apart from staying in the CAS bin.

    This speaks to me. This is exactly how I feel except I keep a record of all the sims I've made XD I never use them, I just like making them :3

    The "recording" comment you just made speaks to me, in the same way when I said I'm addicted to "elimination and condensing" spoke to you on a spiritual level a few months ago. :lol:

    But basically I don't join enough shows nowadays to actively make a lot of great sims. I have a huge list of IDEAS (like a sim who's name/personality is based on the idea of karma, for instance, has been an idea I've had for a year or two now), but never go through with making them because it feels like I waste of time to me if I'm not USING them for something.

    That being said, I get what you guys are saying, it's definitely fun to just fool around and make different sims. I'd just hate to spend hours on something only for nothing to come of it. I'd need to at least save it and store it for potential future usage.

    I've always liked the idea of a "lineup" of sorts... Like a database somewhere that holds all the information I have for all my characters (and pretty much anything else I do :open_mouth: ). I just don't have enough good ones to really put the time into making such a database :p
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    Screenshot.jpg

    COME ON WIL! YOU MESSED UP A PERFECTLY GOOD RAINBOW! plum XD

    I'm realizing now I messed up too. :p Wil should be first, because he's more red and Kaitlin could pass as orange. At the time she gave me more of a tan/brown vibe so I wanted her on the edge. Oopsies! XD
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    TurnerTurner Posts: 10,743 Member
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I didn't know Turner's going to ship them together but it seems to work out pretty well? :D

    I've been planning a love triangle of sorts from the beginning of the season, actually. :b I didn't know between whom but quickly realized it could be Giles and then Paul/Eva. However, Paul's sexuality developed slower than expected and Eva got eliminated earlier than expected. XD So I try not to get too disappointed when subplots don't work out, because I have a lot anyway and know they can't all work.
    At this point though, their relationship is in the hands of their creators: AKA you and Tiger. :blush:
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    twiddle3twiddle3 Posts: 8,293 Member
    Turner wrote: »
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I don't usually care about my sims' sexual orientation because I don't spend enough time playing them. Every time I'm done creating a sim I'm like leaving it in CAS bin and that's it (mostly creating my profile picture sims :p). Well, the thing is I don't usually use them as generation founders or add them to my current neighbourhood. I know this seems quite contradictory and pointless to some others including my friends asking me why I keep on making sims when I don't play the game the much but it's just that I enjoy creating sims more than actually playing the game :D (which probably doesn't make much sense anyway lol). It's just that I prefer taking screenshots and editing stuff and that's all I think? :b

    But only when I'm submitting a sim onto a show like the Mole, just like what Celty has said, will I be considering about this whole sexuality/showmance thing. Though to be honest I don't think I've ever created a fully-heterosexual male since I've got my hands on this game XD don't ask me why I'm just weird.

    I think that most of my characters/sims are highly 'disposable' and replaceable. I just don't keep them for long :p

    Submitting them onto a show is probably a better opportunity for me to keep their memory alive because that's when he or she's actually got a chance to live a proper life apart from staying in the CAS bin.

    This speaks to me. This is exactly how I feel except I keep a record of all the sims I've made XD I never use them, I just like making them :3

    The "recording" comment you just made speaks to me, in the same way when I said I'm addicted to "elimination and condensing" spoke to you on a spiritual level a few months ago. :lol:

    But basically I don't join enough shows nowadays to actively make a lot of great sims. I have a huge list of IDEAS (like a sim who's name/personality is based on the idea of karma, for instance, has been an idea I've had for a year or two now), but never go through with making them because it feels like I waste of time to me if I'm not USING them for something.

    That being said, I get what you guys are saying, it's definitely fun to just fool around and make different sims. I'd just hate to spend hours on something only for nothing to come of it. I'd need to at least save it and store it for potential future usage.

    I've always liked the idea of a "lineup" of sorts... Like a database somewhere that holds all the information I have for all my characters (and pretty much anything else I do :open_mouth: ). I just don't have enough good ones to really put the time into making such a database :p

    I'm the same tbh, I have loads of ideas for characters but the problem i have is i can never get the sims to look how i want. I'm not that good with CAS so i usually just dabble with the sliders and outfits until i get a half-decent looking sim.

    I keep most of my ideas for characters written down in a book so i dont forget them, I do the same for characters i come up with for acting and stuff. Although if i ever need an idea quickly for a sim to submit i often recreate/borrow a character i've played or used IRL. :p

    I dont think i would have enough sims for a Lineup either tbh, I cant even remember half of them. Once they are submitted that's it, The ideas gone out of my head. :s
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    twiddle3twiddle3 Posts: 8,293 Member
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    Screenshot.jpg

    COME ON WIL! YOU MESSED UP A PERFECTLY GOOD RAINBOW! plum XD

    It's funny how most of the remaining contestants seem to have a color assigned to them. Guess the Gov is Col. Mustard in this game. :D
    Speaking of colors, Wonder if the spys have been given the color green to wear to keep with The Moles theme? ;)
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    WinteryGarnetWinteryGarnet Posts: 2,320 Member
    I keep info on my bookish characters in documents,but any sim characters are just for funsies.
    I'm just here getting teary eyed over a video game, so I could use some funsie sim creation XD
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    twiddle3 wrote: »
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    Screenshot.jpg

    COME ON WIL! YOU MESSED UP A PERFECTLY GOOD RAINBOW! plum XD

    It's funny how most of the remaining contestants seem to have a color assigned to them. Guess the Gov is Col. Mustard in this game. :D
    Speaking of colors, Wonder if the spys have been given the color green to wear to keep with The Moles theme? ;)

    Maybe Pacco could host all-stars then? The other Grey is in jail after all. ;)
    That's going to be one he[color][/color]ck of a showdown then. :)
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I thought Pacco was non-hetero as well :p

    I don't even know. XD.
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    Turner wrote: »
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    Or Haylo just miscounted at 1am XD but hey it leash it sparked discussion :P

    Lol :lol: True, you got everyone trying to dissect what you meant. But I can see why someone would think Pacco isn't straight ;)

    Yup. He had some interesting quotes after all. ;)
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    Turner wrote: »
    BTW, there's been subtle hints about Paul's sexuality and tension with Giles from the start... ;)

    Pacco: "So who's sleeping with who??"
    Eva: "I do not advise that you phrase it like THAT..."
    Giles: "I don't mind sharing with a dude. Paul, you up for it? It's okay, I don't bite...often." ;-p
    Screenshot-60.jpg

    Paul: "Er... You know what. This room doesn't fit my style. I'll look elsewhere, thank you for your time."
    Screenshot-61.jpg



    Giles: "No way, he can't join this all-boys club until he strips down to his underwear like the rest of us!"
    Ben: "Ja! I think I read in the bible that the best meals are made naked..."
    Giles: "I think I read that too! I heard Adam was a legendary chef."
    Screenshot-5.jpg

    Paul: "Erm, hehe.... Th-that's alright. I-I'll come back another time, uhm. Yes. Excuse me."
    Screenshot-11.jpg


    ^For those two examples, MOST straight guys wouldn't make a fuss about sharing a bed with another dude, or changing in front of another man. However, Paul being Paul, is too shy and too nervous. He might not necessarily admit to himself that he's gay, but he knows he's had certain feelings for most of his life that he has yet to fully face, and being in the closet, doesn't want to face them, especially on international television. So he just represses his feelings a bit, which is usually pretty easy to do until you walk into a room of half-naked men. :lol: Then your cover gets closer to being blown considering men have a tell when they get turned on. ;) Making Paul's nervousness in the kitchen scene more pronounced.


    Oh, and there's also this lovely symbolic shot:
    Screenshot-24.jpg

    Paul is staring right at temptation (Giles), but instantly sees the word "Sin" written on the wall and immediately is reminded that to him, lusting after another man is sinful, so Paul just decides to suppress his feelings even further, which explains why he sighs right afterwards:

    Paul: *sighs heavily*
    Screenshot-22.jpg


    The timing of this reveal is also pretty funny, since it may even be the exact episode (11) that Whitney's secret was revealed last season? Both of which are huge shockers that have had subtle hints all season long. :p

    Interesting, guess it's about time for me to get back reading some old episodes again :sweat_smile: (there goes my super memory reputation :mrgreen: )

    Screenshot-24.jpg

    Also, the pun is interesting in this picture :smirk::innocent:
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    Turner wrote: »
    Basically: I don't know how accurate that 15% number is, a few years ago it was 5%, then 10%, now the entire LGBT community is apparently OVER 15%, and I can't decide myself if that's close or not, but either way, 4 out of 12 is 33%, essentially DOUBLE the average. So I agree that may be considered as over representation, but so far only Paul, Giles, and Ben are confirmed LGBT, making it only a fourth of the cast which isn't bad at all. Just a pity that it's all guys and not any women. It would be more representative if you had a bi/gay woman in there, but who knows, perhaps we do? ;) (lol I'm pretty sure we don't though)

    BLANCHE! She HAS to make a cameo this season! :smiley:
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    M13VulpeculaM13Vulpecula Posts: 19,720 Member
    twiddle3 wrote: »
    Turner wrote: »
    HayloHusky wrote: »
    ChocoCub wrote: »
    I don't usually care about my sims' sexual orientation because I don't spend enough time playing them. Every time I'm done creating a sim I'm like leaving it in CAS bin and that's it (mostly creating my profile picture sims :p). Well, the thing is I don't usually use them as generation founders or add them to my current neighbourhood. I know this seems quite contradictory and pointless to some others including my friends asking me why I keep on making sims when I don't play the game the much but it's just that I enjoy creating sims more than actually playing the game :D (which probably doesn't make much sense anyway lol). It's just that I prefer taking screenshots and editing stuff and that's all I think? :b

    But only when I'm submitting a sim onto a show like the Mole, just like what Celty has said, will I be considering about this whole sexuality/showmance thing. Though to be honest I don't think I've ever created a fully-heterosexual male since I've got my hands on this game XD don't ask me why I'm just weird.

    I think that most of my characters/sims are highly 'disposable' and replaceable. I just don't keep them for long :p

    Submitting them onto a show is probably a better opportunity for me to keep their memory alive because that's when he or she's actually got a chance to live a proper life apart from staying in the CAS bin.

    This speaks to me. This is exactly how I feel except I keep a record of all the sims I've made XD I never use them, I just like making them :3

    The "recording" comment you just made speaks to me, in the same way when I said I'm addicted to "elimination and condensing" spoke to you on a spiritual level a few months ago. :lol:

    But basically I don't join enough shows nowadays to actively make a lot of great sims. I have a huge list of IDEAS (like a sim who's name/personality is based on the idea of karma, for instance, has been an idea I've had for a year or two now), but never go through with making them because it feels like I waste of time to me if I'm not USING them for something.

    That being said, I get what you guys are saying, it's definitely fun to just fool around and make different sims. I'd just hate to spend hours on something only for nothing to come of it. I'd need to at least save it and store it for potential future usage.

    I've always liked the idea of a "lineup" of sorts... Like a database somewhere that holds all the information I have for all my characters (and pretty much anything else I do :open_mouth: ). I just don't have enough good ones to really put the time into making such a database :p

    I'm the same tbh, I have loads of ideas for characters but the problem i have is i can never get the sims to look how i want. I'm not that good with CAS so i usually just dabble with the sliders and outfits until i get a half-decent looking sim.

    I keep most of my ideas for characters written down in a book so i dont forget them, I do the same for characters i come up with for acting and stuff. Although if i ever need an idea quickly for a sim to submit i often recreate/borrow a character i've played or used IRL. :p

    I dont think i would have enough sims for a Lineup either tbh, I cant even remember half of them. Once they are submitted that's it, The ideas gone out of my head. :s

    I'm on this team as well. :) I've also made several Sims I'll probably never use. Like this transgender character, an actress aged in her late 40's, the sister of my Sim for R&J season 2, the cop who arrested Hector in the finale...
    Even Pacco was hanging around for ages in my Sim Bin. Still remember that I've also signed him up for High Hopes 1, along with Brock. Oh, what could've all been... ;)
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