I'm Beatrice the Eco-Friendly Bee
Will the Simming life ever call to me?
A sip of iced tea here, a gulp of lemonade there,
And I see toddlers everywhere!
But alas, I cannot the laundry see,
Says Beatrice the Eco-Friendly Bee.
Sorry about that, but Beatrice felt like expressing her enthusiasm for this upcoming stuff pack, and so do I.
Thank you for the insight into the making of the packs @SimGuruGraham - I love the chance to learn how things work
I haven't seen anyone mentioning the bees that are already in the game. I know they are part of the backdrop, but since they are already in the game, maybe we will get beehives (or a bee box on a post/side of house) one day. I would like to also see butterflies added; plant a butterfly bush to attract them, and they in turn pollinate/fertilize your crops?
I realize that we have all sorts of insects, courtesy of the Outdoor Retreat EP, but they are only available to find at Granite Falls. It would be nice if we could find them elsewhere in the game at random. Just a thought.
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
That said, let me share a potential roadblock that might keep us from considering it within a Stuff Pack. If you look at the order of the upcoming votes, it'll give you an idea of why certain things can be difficult for the Stuff Pack team to accomplish. First we'll be voting on an art style, then we'll vote for individual objects and pieces of clothing, and then we'll vote on the actual features that the pack includes. On a Stuff Pack, those objects and pieces of clothing have their concept art created by our team here at Maxis, but the assets themselves are actually built by outsourced partners at a separate studio. (Note - this does work a bit differently on larger packs, where they use both outsourced partners and internal artists to create a pack's clothing.) Because they're a different group at a different location, we front load all of the work that's necessary to create the basic objects/clothing for the pack to allow time for communication, revisions, and asset delivery.
Sometimes we're caught off guard by our feature selection, especially if a Stuff Pack feature would benefit from a certain piece of clothing. Let me use Backyard Stuff as an example. Had we known we were going to make a water slide in that pack when its theme and clothing were selected, we certainly would have included some new swimwear in that pack for Sims to use while on the water slide. That feature was selected after our clothing was already locked in though, and because Stuff Packs don't have any internal Create a Sim Artist time allocated to our schedule, it wasn't possible to go back and add that in later.
So bringing it back to the current discussion, it'd likely be difficult to add a Beekeeper to this pack, because presumably you'd also want a beekeeper suit for your Sim to wear when handling the bees. A larger pack could tackle this better - they have access to both internal CAS Artists, as well as multiple rounds of outsourced art with our external partners where they could request such an outfit after features had been selected. With Stuff Packs being smaller packs that are developed in shorter spans of time, that just isn't an option for us. Occasionally we can identify a need for a piece of clothing and make a special request to get time from an internal CAS Artist. If a Development Director (the people who manage the schedules of individual employees across various disciplines) works with production to find some spare time, they can approve that request. That's how we were able to get a bowling glove added in Bowling Night for example.
Hopefully that gives some insight into why the decisions we make aren't as straightforward as they seem at first glance. Each feature can have dependencies on other disciplines that a Stuff Pack just doesn't typically have access to, or the decision may come when we're already at a point in the project where we're past when we can make changes without disrupting our schedule.
Thanks so much! That was really interesting to find out
⭐ Say what you think, love who you love 'cause you just get so many trips around the sun ⭐
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
But then if they didn't have the art style down for something like VG, for example, how would they be able to work on the globe bar thing or the vanity? It's not like they could use another one already in the game, and add a new skin to it later, lol.
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
But then if they didn't have the art style down for something like VG, for example, how would they be able to work on the globe bar thing or the vanity? It's not like they could use another one already in the game, and add a new skin to it later, lol.
The idea for it could be there, but they can still code for it without knowing exactly how it looks. Any object in a game is like any other object instance until you give it a content and use. They could literally use a blob to code for the exact same object - possibly they would have to figure out the height and general structure of the object (for animations).
I can understand why they work like they do - they focus on the look of the object first - but in my mind it does seem a bit backwards. But hey, I'm not the one working on the pack, so I can't totally judge. It also makes me wonder how they worked on things in previous installments - that would be really interesting to know.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
@SimGuruGraham -- thank you for explaining the process. As much as I would love to see bees and beekeeping in game, I realize now that it would be to difficult for a stuff pack. I hope it can be done in a game pack or EP later on. Thank you so much for including us in this process!
I haven't seen bees and bee hives suggested anywhere. It could be a gameplay item where you have to collect the honey and wax. Make eco friendly candles and honey to sell. Maybe get some more plants/flowers, flowering trees to have a greater chance to get bees. It could also be added as a new self employment, beekeeper. You could get sick if you got stung while harvesting if you didn't protect yourself.
New lot trait could be bee friendly which would help with bees moving into your hive.
We could have two different bee houses to choose from, one cheap and one more expensive that would be better at attracting bees. I know bee keepers buy their bee colonies but I think it would be more of a challenge if we had to somehow make them appear.
Thoughts?
Well before they consider bees they need to stop spraying gardens for bugs, as the two do not go together. In real life I do organic gardening and bug sprays is a big - HUGE NO-NO. We use enemy bugs of plant eating bugs to control them - not sprays. I have frogs, snakes, a type of wasp,earth worms, certain beetles, and huge Garden spiders in my garden. Keep in mind I have a wasp allergy - but they don't bother me - I am not their target - garden pests are. Lady bugs, certain flowers that repel plant eating bugs, are among my arsenal as is planting beneficial plants to protect other plants. But spraying for bugs really needs to be made to disappear. The only spray in my garden is an ordinary plant oil that protects fruits from worms. Bees are killed by even many organic plant sprays or causes them to not be able to reproduce. Without bees pollinating can become insane - believe me - we don't get food with out the bees - so we need what many refer to as the creepy crawlers. They are pretty much my friend for sure. LOL. But the game needs to adopt no more bug sprays and instead give us the little creepy crawlers a healthy garden needs... and bees.
My plant protection of choice usually keep people out of your garden too. Between the spiders and snakes - I get no thieves. LOL.
But seriously I would not expect beekeeping in a sp anyway. That a lot of animations never mind anything else.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Interesting read. I thought the feature selection would be the first to be decided upon and then the objects and CAS items. To me you're working backwards. I also didn't know we had beekeeping in Sims3, guess it was in a pack I wasn't too interested in. ( Ooops )
In any case I enjoy reading about all different ideas. And what @SageRainWillow said, We never know what you might decide to incorporate later on in other packs.
It came in supernatural I think I recall - herbal gardening and bees go hand in hand. LOL. I believe we have had bees in all versions of the Sims but this one so far. I remember needing honey to trade the fairy for certain items in Making Magic even - and in Sims 2 we had a nectar we needed honey for as well as the baking oven recipes. Clair the bear used to help me finish up my honey and honey cone gathering during the night if I left the job unfinished. Other times she stole the honey. LOL. The the Sims 3 witches brews needed honey - potions as well, and herbs benefited from them. So yes - all 3 previous Sims had the bees.
I never had a sim die from bee attacks but they were feeling pretty miserable with all the stings. LOL. So I can't recall if there was a death by bees or not. I don't kill my sims so that is probably why if they had it I wouldn't know anyway.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
This is one feature I would LOVE to see. I love bees. Here in California they are very tame. If a bee can be tame LOL
Every time it gets too hot I can see how the bees are struggling with finding water. So they sit lethargic on the floor. I usually pick them up on my hand and give them something to drink. They are very thankful and begin flying again after a while!
This is one feature I would LOVE to see. I love bees. Here in California they are very tame. If a bee can be tame LOL
Every time it gets too hot I can see how the bees are struggling with finding water. So they sit lethargic on the floor. I usually pick them up on my hand and give them something to drink. They are very thankful and begin flying again after a while!
That is very kind of you. I would be like that. In areas where water is scarce I used to leave jar caps in shade with water for various creatures and beneficials at different heights as well as onground. Especially when I lived down south in Georgia. Here in Maine so many ponds, lakes, rivers, springs and waterfalls just everywhere and forest everywhere - not really an issue. Water is one thing we don't lack.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I believe we have had bees in all versions of the Sims but this one so far. I remember needing honey to trade the fairy for certain items in Making Magic
Oooh, you're right, now I remember! I never bought supernatural so in my Sims3 I didn't have bees. But since they've been around maybe we'll get bees in Sims4 eventually.
The way SimguruGraham shot down my idea I really think so, it wouldn't be good if everybody got excited about bees for this stuffpack if they already have other plans.
OMG.. I love icemunmun. Between them and Leniad, those two really brought me back to TS4 with their creations. I can't wait for munmun's bees. Thank you for posting that. I didn't know they were working on it.
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
Like he said, they outsource the building of the actual assets for the clothing and objects on a stuff pack and don't have multiple passes at it and internal resources for it like they would with a game or expansion pack. So it probably makes sense to get the concept art to those people so they can start building the assets for the clothing and objects rather than have them sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
I'd love bees too, so I hope they'll return in a GP or EP. Ideally, I'd have liked to see them in Outdoor Retreat, as wild plants could have been used as food for bees (beehives would need to be installed close to wild flowers), and bees would have had the best environment in Granite Falls. But as it didn't happen, then I hope that they're back with a farming pack, still with the option to let them feed by themselves on flowers.
@Tanja1986 What a cute picture ! Bees and wildlife need more people like you to help them
@Writin_Reg I agree about spraying for bugs. Even if it's in the Sims, it bothers me a little bit too. I hope we'll have at some point options to create organic gardens. I'd really like a way to make compost. But I guess this will be part of a GP or EP rather than a SP, if ever it's possible, like beehives...
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
Like he said, they outsource the building of the actual assets for the clothing and objects on a stuff pack and don't have multiple passes at it and internal resources for it like they would with a game or expansion pack. So it probably makes sense to get the concept art to those people so they can start building the assets for the clothing and objects rather than have them sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
I understood perfectly, you don't have to explain. I'm sure it makes sense for the way they have build up their developing of packs. But from an actual game developing standpoint, it's very backwards imo. But yes, I understand perfectly why they do it. It also explains why the quality of the stuff packs is what it is, perfectly.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
Like he said, they outsource the building of the actual assets for the clothing and objects on a stuff pack and don't have multiple passes at it and internal resources for it like they would with a game or expansion pack. So it probably makes sense to get the concept art to those people so they can start building the assets for the clothing and objects rather than have them sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
I understood perfectly, you don't have to explain. I'm sure it makes sense for the way they have build up their developing of packs. But from an actual game developing standpoint, it's very backwards imo. But yes, I understand perfectly why they do it. It also explains why the quality of the stuff packs is what it is, perfectly.
I've discussed how many of our basic art assets are concepted here in the studio, and then sent to external partners to actually have the asset built. It's understandable that an outside partner needs contracts in place and their time scheduled well in advance so that their resources are available to us.
As you can see just from these forums, we're spoilt for choice when it comes to the features that we can potentially add to a Stuff Pack. You can look at an example like the lawn water slide in Backyard Stuff and see how it would have been nice to include new swimwear alongside such a feature. At the same time, I don't think that not having new swimwear hurt that feature in any way, as there are already a number of swimwear options available to anyone who owns the base game. We aren't going to choose to include features that would be hurt by the exclusion of supporting assets... so the game isn't suffering in quality from that perspective. Similarly, if we get excited about a feature but determine we don't have the supporting assets to include it at this time, there's always another pack right around the corner where we could consider adding it instead... so again, the creative direction of the game isn't being compromised. Finally, on some occasions we do pick a feature in advance so that a style can be built around it... Bowling Night is a great example where we knew we would have bowling, so we have things like bowling shirts, bowling signs, and more made in advance of actually starting production on the pack. The takeaway should be that we're flexible in our approach to meet the needs of the project. As producers, we've learned different levers we can pull to get a pack what it needs without disrupting our development schedule.
If you look at the order of the votes we're having, each one is helping narrow down our direction, with each subsequent decision carrying a greater weight in what you get in the final product.
Unfortunately some aspects of this conversation are leaning into the business side of game development, which I can't discuss in depth (see the "Welcome!" thread on this forum.) I hope you'll understand that if the discussion goes further in that direction I won't be able to provide further details.
@SimGuruGraham That's interesting to know. My thought is though - wouldn't it make more sense to work on the features of the pack first, and when those are decided, you work on the art style and look of the objects? It seems a bit backward, since you also pointed out a very obvious flaw with that way of doing it - that you don't have time to go back and add things that become obvious when you have actually made the features. I'm kinda facepalming over here. LOL But hey, what do I know.
Like he said, they outsource the building of the actual assets for the clothing and objects on a stuff pack and don't have multiple passes at it and internal resources for it like they would with a game or expansion pack. So it probably makes sense to get the concept art to those people so they can start building the assets for the clothing and objects rather than have them sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
I understood perfectly, you don't have to explain. I'm sure it makes sense for the way they have build up their developing of packs. But from an actual game developing standpoint, it's very backwards imo. But yes, I understand perfectly why they do it. It also explains why the quality of the stuff packs is what it is, perfectly.
I've discussed how many of our basic art assets are concepted here in the studio, and then sent to external partners to actually have the asset built. It's understandable that an outside partner needs contracts in place and their time scheduled well in advance so that their resources are available to us.
As you can see just from these forums, we're spoilt for choice when it comes to the features that we can potentially add to a Stuff Pack. You can look at an example like the lawn water slide in Backyard Stuff and see how it would have been nice to include new swimwear alongside such a feature. At the same time, I don't think that not having new swimwear hurt that feature in any way, as there are already a number of swimwear options available to anyone who owns the base game. We aren't going to choose to include features that would be hurt by the exclusion of supporting assets... so the game isn't suffering in quality from that perspective. Similarly, if we get excited about a feature but determine we don't have the supporting assets to include it at this time, there's always another pack right around the corner where we could consider adding it instead... so again, the creative direction of the game isn't being compromised. Finally, on some occasions we do pick a feature in advance so that a style can be built around it... Bowling Night is a great example where we knew we would have bowling, so we have things like bowling shirts, bowling signs, and more made in advance of actually starting production on the pack. The takeaway should be that we're flexible in our approach to meet the needs of the project. As producers, we've learned different levers we can pull to get a pack what it needs without disrupting our development schedule.
If you look at the order of the votes we're having, each one is helping narrow down our direction, with each subsequent decision carrying a greater weight in what you get in the final product.
Unfortunately some aspects of this conversation are leaning into the business side of game development, which I can't discuss in depth (see the "Welcome!" thread on this forum.) I hope you'll understand that if the discussion goes further in that direction I won't be able to provide further details.
@SimGuruGraham Thanks for the response. As I said, I completely understand why you do it the way you do. It's entirely possible that the quality of the packs has very little to do with this process you use for developing packs. However that wasn't initially the reason for my comment - it's just show how my mind works, and when I see something that to me is an obvious flaw, I sometimes like to divulge that observation. My mind is constantly looking for process improvements. I'm quite aware I don't have the 'full' picture. I do however have an education in software development, so i understand the basics.
The rest is just my views about how the creative process works, and what I personally would consider the best way to make a game, or part of a game in this instance. A strict creative process, especially one that is tightly tied to a smaller budget and less resources, very harshly limits the creative process. I could go on in detail why that is, but I'm pretty sure you guys already know what I'm talking about. Especially if you would compare how dev teams worked back in the day. It's a different time now.
I'm not saying you aren't doing a fantastic job - tbh I'm in awe you get anything done at all. And I am definitely not blaming you devs for the quality of the packs. I truly admire the creative things you manage to put in the packs despite the creative handcuffs that you guys have to deal with.
The reason I am 'facepalming' like crazy is because the process you guys have for creating a pack really highlights why I don't go well with the game anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, I think I always will. But the look of the game is NOT the most important thing. The game becomes shallow when features aren't the most important thing, the first thing, in the pack, or any part of the game. It's quite obvious especially in the expansion packs. The game packs seems to escape most of the symptoms of this affliction, but it's definitely prevalent in the stuff packs (for obvious reasons), and painfully obvious in expansion packs.
To me it's very obvious that the look and feel and design of the game is ever so slightly disproportionately focused on. Not that it's isn't important. But a pretty game very fast becomes shallow if the proper amount of time is not spent on actual features. And in comparison; a pretty animation without meaning or purpose could just aswell be a chair for whatever it's worth in gameplay.
The reason I'm facepalming is because I don't agree with the game development philosophy that seem to be at the core of your dev team.
I could go on, but I don't think this is the place for it tbh. I'd love to discuss it more at some point - you could pm me whenever. I would truly love to help.
Cheers
Aine
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
Comments
Will the Simming life ever call to me?
A sip of iced tea here, a gulp of lemonade there,
And I see toddlers everywhere!
But alas, I cannot the laundry see,
Says Beatrice the Eco-Friendly Bee.
Sorry about that, but Beatrice felt like expressing her enthusiasm for this upcoming stuff pack, and so do I.
Ok I got you the first three times
I haven't seen anyone mentioning the bees that are already in the game. I know they are part of the backdrop, but since they are already in the game, maybe we will get beehives (or a bee box on a post/side of house) one day. I would like to also see butterflies added; plant a butterfly bush to attract them, and they in turn pollinate/fertilize your crops?
I realize that we have all sorts of insects, courtesy of the Outdoor Retreat EP, but they are only available to find at Granite Falls. It would be nice if we could find them elsewhere in the game at random. Just a thought.
Simming since the beginning
*Shudder* I could only handle that if the bees are a black mass like "die by flies" in Sims 2. 🐸🐸🐸🐸 phobias!
Thanks so much! That was really interesting to find out
Simmer since 2009
S4 content owned - GTW, GT, CL, OR, DO, SD, P, V, KR, SS, BS, FS, BN, RG, MH, LP, PP, LP, CK, VG,
Sims lost:7
But then if they didn't have the art style down for something like VG, for example, how would they be able to work on the globe bar thing or the vanity? It's not like they could use another one already in the game, and add a new skin to it later, lol.
The idea for it could be there, but they can still code for it without knowing exactly how it looks. Any object in a game is like any other object instance until you give it a content and use. They could literally use a blob to code for the exact same object - possibly they would have to figure out the height and general structure of the object (for animations).
I can understand why they work like they do - they focus on the look of the object first - but in my mind it does seem a bit backwards. But hey, I'm not the one working on the pack, so I can't totally judge. It also makes me wonder how they worked on things in previous installments - that would be really interesting to know.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/910413/post-apocalyptic-murkland-the-starter-challenge/p1
Well before they consider bees they need to stop spraying gardens for bugs, as the two do not go together. In real life I do organic gardening and bug sprays is a big - HUGE NO-NO. We use enemy bugs of plant eating bugs to control them - not sprays. I have frogs, snakes, a type of wasp,earth worms, certain beetles, and huge Garden spiders in my garden. Keep in mind I have a wasp allergy - but they don't bother me - I am not their target - garden pests are. Lady bugs, certain flowers that repel plant eating bugs, are among my arsenal as is planting beneficial plants to protect other plants. But spraying for bugs really needs to be made to disappear. The only spray in my garden is an ordinary plant oil that protects fruits from worms. Bees are killed by even many organic plant sprays or causes them to not be able to reproduce. Without bees pollinating can become insane - believe me - we don't get food with out the bees - so we need what many refer to as the creepy crawlers. They are pretty much my friend for sure. LOL. But the game needs to adopt no more bug sprays and instead give us the little creepy crawlers a healthy garden needs... and bees.
My plant protection of choice usually keep people out of your garden too. Between the spiders and snakes - I get no thieves. LOL.
But seriously I would not expect beekeeping in a sp anyway. That a lot of animations never mind anything else.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
It came in supernatural I think I recall - herbal gardening and bees go hand in hand. LOL. I believe we have had bees in all versions of the Sims but this one so far. I remember needing honey to trade the fairy for certain items in Making Magic even - and in Sims 2 we had a nectar we needed honey for as well as the baking oven recipes. Clair the bear used to help me finish up my honey and honey cone gathering during the night if I left the job unfinished. Other times she stole the honey. LOL. The the Sims 3 witches brews needed honey - potions as well, and herbs benefited from them. So yes - all 3 previous Sims had the bees.
I never had a sim die from bee attacks but they were feeling pretty miserable with all the stings. LOL. So I can't recall if there was a death by bees or not. I don't kill my sims so that is probably why if they had it I wouldn't know anyway.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Every time it gets too hot I can see how the bees are struggling with finding water. So they sit lethargic on the floor. I usually pick them up on my hand and give them something to drink. They are very thankful and begin flying again after a while!
That is very kind of you. I would be like that. In areas where water is scarce I used to leave jar caps in shade with water for various creatures and beneficials at different heights as well as onground. Especially when I lived down south in Georgia. Here in Maine so many ponds, lakes, rivers, springs and waterfalls just everywhere and forest everywhere - not really an issue. Water is one thing we don't lack.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Oooh, you're right, now I remember! I never bought supernatural so in my Sims3 I didn't have bees. But since they've been around maybe we'll get bees in Sims4 eventually.
The way SimguruGraham shot down my idea I really think so, it wouldn't be good if everybody got excited about bees for this stuffpack if they already have other plans.
OMG.. I love icemunmun. Between them and Leniad, those two really brought me back to TS4 with their creations. I can't wait for munmun's bees. Thank you for posting that. I didn't know they were working on it.
Like he said, they outsource the building of the actual assets for the clothing and objects on a stuff pack and don't have multiple passes at it and internal resources for it like they would with a game or expansion pack. So it probably makes sense to get the concept art to those people so they can start building the assets for the clothing and objects rather than have them sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
@Tanja1986 What a cute picture ! Bees and wildlife need more people like you to help them
@Writin_Reg I agree about spraying for bugs. Even if it's in the Sims, it bothers me a little bit too. I hope we'll have at some point options to create organic gardens. I'd really like a way to make compost. But I guess this will be part of a GP or EP rather than a SP, if ever it's possible, like beehives...
My Sims 3 blog, Back to the Sims 3
I've discussed how many of our basic art assets are concepted here in the studio, and then sent to external partners to actually have the asset built. It's understandable that an outside partner needs contracts in place and their time scheduled well in advance so that their resources are available to us.
As you can see just from these forums, we're spoilt for choice when it comes to the features that we can potentially add to a Stuff Pack. You can look at an example like the lawn water slide in Backyard Stuff and see how it would have been nice to include new swimwear alongside such a feature. At the same time, I don't think that not having new swimwear hurt that feature in any way, as there are already a number of swimwear options available to anyone who owns the base game. We aren't going to choose to include features that would be hurt by the exclusion of supporting assets... so the game isn't suffering in quality from that perspective. Similarly, if we get excited about a feature but determine we don't have the supporting assets to include it at this time, there's always another pack right around the corner where we could consider adding it instead... so again, the creative direction of the game isn't being compromised. Finally, on some occasions we do pick a feature in advance so that a style can be built around it... Bowling Night is a great example where we knew we would have bowling, so we have things like bowling shirts, bowling signs, and more made in advance of actually starting production on the pack. The takeaway should be that we're flexible in our approach to meet the needs of the project. As producers, we've learned different levers we can pull to get a pack what it needs without disrupting our development schedule.
If you look at the order of the votes we're having, each one is helping narrow down our direction, with each subsequent decision carrying a greater weight in what you get in the final product.
Unfortunately some aspects of this conversation are leaning into the business side of game development, which I can't discuss in depth (see the "Welcome!" thread on this forum.) I hope you'll understand that if the discussion goes further in that direction I won't be able to provide further details.
The rest is just my views about how the creative process works, and what I personally would consider the best way to make a game, or part of a game in this instance. A strict creative process, especially one that is tightly tied to a smaller budget and less resources, very harshly limits the creative process. I could go on in detail why that is, but I'm pretty sure you guys already know what I'm talking about. Especially if you would compare how dev teams worked back in the day. It's a different time now.
I'm not saying you aren't doing a fantastic job - tbh I'm in awe you get anything done at all. And I am definitely not blaming you devs for the quality of the packs. I truly admire the creative things you manage to put in the packs despite the creative handcuffs that you guys have to deal with.
The reason I am 'facepalming' like crazy is because the process you guys have for creating a pack really highlights why I don't go well with the game anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, I think I always will. But the look of the game is NOT the most important thing. The game becomes shallow when features aren't the most important thing, the first thing, in the pack, or any part of the game. It's quite obvious especially in the expansion packs. The game packs seems to escape most of the symptoms of this affliction, but it's definitely prevalent in the stuff packs (for obvious reasons), and painfully obvious in expansion packs.
To me it's very obvious that the look and feel and design of the game is ever so slightly disproportionately focused on. Not that it's isn't important. But a pretty game very fast becomes shallow if the proper amount of time is not spent on actual features. And in comparison; a pretty animation without meaning or purpose could just aswell be a chair for whatever it's worth in gameplay.
The reason I'm facepalming is because I don't agree with the game development philosophy that seem to be at the core of your dev team.
I could go on, but I don't think this is the place for it tbh. I'd love to discuss it more at some point - you could pm me whenever. I would truly love to help.
Cheers
Aine