So we finally get one of the Gurus to speak up and what do they do? Write up a passive-aggressive tirade and tell everyone to shut up and be patient. In other words after more than 200 replies to this thread we got absolutely nowhere.
I think perhaps it's more that it feels repetitive to you when you say you hear us etc. but to most simmers it's not repetitive. For any concern that we might have, you should probably say that you hear us as many times as you can. And if if it does get repetitive, it's still better than silence.
What I'm wondering about is what the discussions about toddlers really is like - what's the delay, as it were. I wish we could be part of that discussion to be honest, because I think we could probably help with any fears or issues you have. I know this probably won't happen, but a more open discussion between simmers and devs could probably lead to some compromise and good ideas aswell. After all we all want the same thing - a great game. Maybe you could hire some folks as 'professional simmers' - that way they could discuss development from a fan perspective with you guys, but not be able to leak any info. You'd think you'd already thought of that, but hey, maybe it's an idea.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
So we finally get one of the Gurus to speak up and what do they do? Write up a passive-aggressive tirade and tell everyone to shut up and be patient. In other words after more than 200 replies to this thread we got absolutely nowhere.
Outstanding. Simply outstanding.
This conversation is simply pointless. I understand, that current strategy is not to tell anything. So this is obvious that @SimGuruDrake can't confirm or deny anything. And I'm sure that it must be frustrating also for her - to have answers but not being able to deliver them.
But in my opinion this strategy is wrong and should be modified. It's not like I want to know everything about the producing process. I don't want to see some dev diary ("Dear Diary, today I've created toddlers pee, but I have to change it, because my boss said it is not sim-pee-lish enough").
For me, it would be enough just to hear one official statement - Yes, we are working on toddlers, and yes, they'll be back. Can't say when, but sure they'll return.
So we finally get one of the Gurus to speak up and what do they do? Write up a passive-aggressive tirade and tell everyone to shut up and be patient. In other words after more than 200 replies to this thread we got absolutely nowhere.
Outstanding. Simply outstanding.
Someone with some guts. I was going to remark several pages back after reading those rants about more or less don't let the door hit you in the rear, but decided attitudes from Maxis is the reason I don't want to post here anymore and has been for a very long time. Others may not see or just don't want to believe it or want to be 'friends' with gurus when I see a business relationship as just that and I'm never shocked anymore at the total disrespect I see coming out of some guru's mouth. Maybe corporate or at the next stock holders meeting should be told why people left here and are going to leave here, and gathering up or building more promotional sites like SimsVIP isn't going to work for this game when Maxis employees can't keep their mouth's shut and run off communities with exactly what you said. Glad to know I didn't say it, and others are waking up and this is exactly why many left for the total disrespect they received.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Someone with some guts. I was going to remark several pages back after reading those rants about more or less don't let the door hit you in the rear, but decided attitudes from Maxis is the reason I don't want to post here anymore and has been for a very long time. Others may not see or just don't want to believe it or want to be 'friends' with gurus when I see a business relationship as just that and I'm never shocked anymore at the total disrespect I see coming out of some guru's mouth. Maybe corporate or at the next stock holders meeting should be told why people left here and are going to leave here, and gathering up or building more promotional sites like SimsVIP isn't going to work for this game when Maxis employees can't keep their mouth's shut and run off communities with exactly what you said. Glad to know I didn't say it, and others are waking up and this is exactly why many left for the total disrespect they received.
I surely misunderstand this, but in case my last comment comes off as me wanting to be friends with Gurus, I'd just like to remark that although I found her previous comments condescending, like I said, I think the last one was a lot easier to digest and a little fairer towards the community. Also, I can imagine that reading all these comments isn't always easy, especially when your hands are tied and you can't actually say anything anyway - even if you really wanted to, which I guess they also can't say. So I'm not on a quest to be friends with gurus, but I'm definitely also not on a quest to vilify them personally for the more than obvious flaws TS4 has.
Someone with some guts. I was going to remark several pages back after reading those rants about more or less don't let the door hit you in the rear, but decided attitudes from Maxis is the reason I don't want to post here anymore and has been for a very long time. Others may not see or just don't want to believe it or want to be 'friends' with gurus when I see a business relationship as just that and I'm never shocked anymore at the total disrespect I see coming out of some guru's mouth. Maybe corporate or at the next stock holders meeting should be told why people left here and are going to leave here, and gathering up or building more promotional sites like SimsVIP isn't going to work for this game when Maxis employees can't keep their mouth's shut and run off communities with exactly what you said. Glad to know I didn't say it, and others are waking up and this is exactly why many left for the total disrespect they received.
I surely misunderstand this, but in case my last comment comes off as me wanting to be friends with Gurus, I'd just like to remark that although I found her previous comments condescending, like I said, I think the last one was a lot easier to digest and a little fairer towards the community. Also, I can imagine that reading all these comments isn't always easy, especially when your hands are tied and you can't actually say anything anyway - even if you really wanted to, which I guess they also can't say. So I'm not on a quest to be friends with gurus, but I'm definitely also not on a quest to vilify them personally for the more than obvious flaws TS4 has.
It happens over and over. Time to let the world know it happens over and over. This is not the first time and won't be the last. And if anyone has a problem with me then they know what they can do. Close my account here so I won't draw attention to the passive aggressive condescending remarks made by this moderator. Some of us (as like you) can actually see it whether others can or not. And it's high time it stops and the only way to do that is go to someone above Rachel Franklin's head. But then that might be Peter Moore, who is just as condescending. Heck he may be over in the corner cheering it on. (Yes, Gurus, I am exaggerating to make my point) but not really.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Thanks for your follow up post, SGDrake. I am looking forward to hearing the clearer answer on what's going on with the relationships and understanding of rotational play when that comes, and it is also nice to hear that toddlers are not "out of sight out of mind" with the team. The rest I'll leave to myself because it's speculation.
@Cinebar yeah I definitely agree that this wasn't the right way to respond to the concerns in this thread, especially because most people really phrased their comments in a polite, honest, and very forthcoming way, frequently pointing out that they did and do not mean to personally attack her for everything (I'm sure there were exceptions, I just can't think of any right now). It's, again, not fair to tell your customers that they just don't want to be happy. If I don't care for a game, or I think it will never make me happy, I'm out. Like Assassin's Creed. Just not my cup of tea, never will be - but I'm not in their forums complaining about it as I know that that game will, in fact never make me happy. So clearly, it's not our unwillingness to be happy that keeps bringing us back to the forums or to engage gurus in these kinds of discussions. It's hope, I guess, and nostalgia. And the fear that our hopes will get crushed in the end and that a franchise we've spent decades supporting may no longer support us as players.
@carlymichelle haven't you responded the exact same thing in another thread? Reread carefully, this isn't just about toddlers. For some it may be their main concern, but clearly not for everyone. So please don't reduce it to that.
didnt they announce before sims 4 was even out that toddlers would not be in the game?
Yes. But Ryan Vaughn mentioned toddlers and pools in the same sentence, then went on to say they had built a strong foundation capable of making every one of those dreams come true (those he mentioned we were disappointed about) ...so, it was very much implied. And he was believed by people like me, who when I saw the pools took for granted they would be adding toddlers shortly. Since he said we were disappointed about those things but they could make every one of those dreams come true. Well, obviously not as we are still waiting two years later. This was before the what's in what's out blog. And it was directly spoken for fans to see so those preorders wouldn't be cancelled.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
While I'm waiting to board my flight (it's going to be 12 hours in the air! O.O) I wanted to take the time to comment on a few things, I'm on mobile so please bear with me.
Remarks about me being condescending: Nothing I ever say is meant to be an insult to you. Do I come off strong when writing lengthy, no jokes in sight, kind of responses? Absolutely. That's because I believe I should be very serious with you during conversations like this because you deserve my unde attention.
To those of you who I've had polite conversations, reached out to me or responded to me in private messages to chat about things in a more "quiet" space, and those who facilitate a welcoming conversation in threads for all kinds of feedback my comments should have been clear that I wasn't referencing you. The way you engage in providing your thoughts and opinions is the exact engagement that I would like to see throughout all the conversations in the forums and other areas of the Internet. Having mutual respect for one another (developer and customer) is a big deal and I'd like you to know that I have respect for quite a lot of you and am very thankful when you take the time to correct the course of threads when you see someone misquoting or taking something out of context and that you take the time to be constructive with your criticism.
Culling, Relationship Decay: As I've mentioned before, I don't work in development, but as I do work in communications there are somethings that I can do. I had a chat with another member of the Comms team and we will be having a meeting with the right people to see what exactly is going on with this so we can provide you with a clearer answer. I may not be able to provide you an answer right away (traveling plus I have a Disneyland vacation coming up) but I will be working hard to get you some kind of insight into this.
Toddlers: We know that this is a big issue within the community and we definitely are not blind to your pleas for us to tell you something. I wish the answer wasn't one I keep repeating but it's the only one I have for you. With that in mind I want you to know that we absolutely hear you, this is something that is a topic of conversation every day that I'm at work. Because the team hears you, they understand this is a big part of how you immerse yourself in the game and it's a most loved part of the game for many of you. I stickied that toddler thread as acknowledgement that we absolutely hear you, I asked Lyndsay to go into that thread so that she could express that she hears you, and the team appreciates reading every idea/picture that is provided in that thread. We just simply don't want to constantly give you the same answer over and over because it does feel self defeating for us and we know it is frustrating for you. I absolutely HATE asking you this but please be patient when we have something to say in either direction we will tell you.
Influencer feedback: Yes these individuals tell us about things that they see talked about but each has a different community with different concerns. For example: Some are more focused on building than stories so their feedback will be on terrain manipulation, spiral staircases, platform staircases, roofing options, split levels, etc. I try to make sure I work with a variety of people and there are some I've started working with recently so we have even more variety in feedback. But we absolutely look at the feedback / ideas section for themes that we may have never thought of or to confirm that a theme we were thinking is of interest to you.
Phew that was a lot of typing but I'm on my flight now so I will chat with all of you Monday when I'm back in the office
Hope you're enjoying your weekend!
Ok, you say toddlers are 'topic of conversation every day'... What on earth are you talking about then if you STILL don't have an answer either way? You're (Company) either making them, not making them, or thinking about it. Which is it? Why say nothing? I don't get it. Are they on the table as potential or not? It's pretty simple.
Until you (whoever, I really don't care) can answer that, I'm not interested anymore.
Initially Guru Grant said that all life stages would be included in the game. It was later retracted. This caused a reaction because not only were so many other things missing, but many people enjoy family play with toddlers. A petition was started on Change that included over 25000 signatures. The thread that was following it was closed. EA has pretty much been very quiet about it ever since.
Maybe they don't even *know* whether they will be able to fit toddler work into the game yet. They're probably still discussing how much depth they need to put into them compared with what time and money budget will be feasible to do it in. Too shallow and they'll have wasted their time cos we still won't like the result. Too deep and it will cost more than it will bring in.
Maybe they don't even *know* whether they will be able to fit toddler work into the game yet. They're probably still discussing how much depth they need to put into them compared with what time and money budget will be feasible to do it in. Too shallow and they'll have wasted their time cos we still won't like the result. Too deep and it will cost more than it will bring in.
people forget they have to do all the animations etc for the sims to put it in perspective it takes disney up to 3 years to animate their movies? get what i mean?? making toddlers just doesnt happen
Maybe they don't even *know* whether they will be able to fit toddler work into the game yet. They're probably still discussing how much depth they need to put into them compared with what time and money budget will be feasible to do it in. Too shallow and they'll have wasted their time cos we still won't like the result. Too deep and it will cost more than it will bring in.
After two years and half knowing this was an issue all this talking about it every day, surely by now someone knows the actual answer. I assume since after two years of conversation about toddlers in a game, they would know, right? So, nothing left to be said to fans but no. I mean who discusses a problem for two years and half (everyday?) and doesn't know the answer.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I don't get it. This whole influencers. No offence to the people invited to that meeting, but I don't know anyone of them.
But I get it. I'm old and I'm not enjoying watching kids playing games on youtube and apparently that's how influencers looks these days. I have to adjust, ok.
But I can't understand how it is possible that I couldn't find single person from Poland attending that meeting? I mean - Germany is Polands neighbour. We have a lot of Influencers, awesome people which are just amazing but none of them was worthy of an invitation? It is really, really sad that Polish community is so discriminated. In my personal opinion it is really, really significant that EA refused to invite anyone from a country which was so close to the place where main event was held.
Not everybody is going to be able to or want to dedicate their summer holiday time and budget to going to a gaming event. They won't all take up the invitation if it's offered. I know that if I'd been invited, I would have turned it down, even if I lived in the next country over. Other stuff in my life is more important this month. I'm sure you could ask some of the more prominent people from Poland if they received an invite?
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Maybe they don't even *know* whether they will be able to fit toddler work into the game yet. They're probably still discussing how much depth they need to put into them compared with what time and money budget will be feasible to do it in. Too shallow and they'll have wasted their time cos we still won't like the result. Too deep and it will cost more than it will bring in.
people forget they have to do all the animations etc for the sims to put it in perspective it takes disney up to 3 years to animate their movies? get what i mean?? making toddlers just doesnt happen
You seem to forget that they've probably been working on TS4 for at least 3 to 4 years already, and that if it had been a priority to them, I think they would've been close to finished (if not finished) by now.
Let me see if I got this right, from reading post from those who attended like Crinrict and others in their own blogs. From what I gathered this was more or less a promotional meeting of how they could get more fan created websites up and running to promote the game, talk about the positives of the game and not focus on the failures and so Maxis could sell more games? Yep, I'm pretty sure that was the heart of the matter.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Let me see if I got this right, from reading post from those who attended like Crinrict and others in their own blogs. From what I gathered this was more or less a promotional meeting of how they could get more fan created websites up and running to promote the game, talk about the positives of the game and not focus on the failures and so Maxis could sell more games? Yep, I'm pretty sure that was the heart of the matter.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
didnt they announce before sims 4 was even out that toddlers would not be in the game?
Doesn't matter. They were either promised (the alpha interview stating that all life stages would be present) or implied (...won't be in game at launch) and therefore need to be put in, or people need to be informed otherwise. They also need to apologise for people taking their words as promises or implications. The End. No amount of variations of '..but you were informed otherwise' work, at least from my experience.
*I didn't get that from either the interview, which was back in like January before the game was launched (I believed the things I read that said the game was subject to change in an Alpha state). Nor did I take 'at launch' as an implication, but that's me.
Let me see if I got this right, from reading post from those who attended like Crinrict and others in their own blogs. From what I gathered this was more or less a promotional meeting of how they could get more fan created websites up and running to promote the game, talk about the positives of the game and not focus on the failures and so Maxis could sell more games? Yep, I'm pretty sure that was the heart of the matter.
She did a write up in German and someone translated it for us here, and it's posted here somewhere and btw, she wasn't the only one. I think I got the gest of the meeting to build more websites to promote the game. How hidden was that? Not very.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Comments
Outstanding. Simply outstanding.
I think perhaps it's more that it feels repetitive to you when you say you hear us etc. but to most simmers it's not repetitive. For any concern that we might have, you should probably say that you hear us as many times as you can. And if if it does get repetitive, it's still better than silence.
What I'm wondering about is what the discussions about toddlers really is like - what's the delay, as it were. I wish we could be part of that discussion to be honest, because I think we could probably help with any fears or issues you have. I know this probably won't happen, but a more open discussion between simmers and devs could probably lead to some compromise and good ideas aswell. After all we all want the same thing - a great game. Maybe you could hire some folks as 'professional simmers' - that way they could discuss development from a fan perspective with you guys, but not be able to leak any info. You'd think you'd already thought of that, but hey, maybe it's an idea.
This conversation is simply pointless. I understand, that current strategy is not to tell anything. So this is obvious that @SimGuruDrake can't confirm or deny anything. And I'm sure that it must be frustrating also for her - to have answers but not being able to deliver them.
But in my opinion this strategy is wrong and should be modified. It's not like I want to know everything about the producing process. I don't want to see some dev diary ("Dear Diary, today I've created toddlers pee, but I have to change it, because my boss said it is not sim-pee-lish enough").
For me, it would be enough just to hear one official statement - Yes, we are working on toddlers, and yes, they'll be back. Can't say when, but sure they'll return.
Someone with some guts. I was going to remark several pages back after reading those rants about more or less don't let the door hit you in the rear, but decided attitudes from Maxis is the reason I don't want to post here anymore and has been for a very long time. Others may not see or just don't want to believe it or want to be 'friends' with gurus when I see a business relationship as just that and I'm never shocked anymore at the total disrespect I see coming out of some guru's mouth. Maybe corporate or at the next stock holders meeting should be told why people left here and are going to leave here, and gathering up or building more promotional sites like SimsVIP isn't going to work for this game when Maxis employees can't keep their mouth's shut and run off communities with exactly what you said. Glad to know I didn't say it, and others are waking up and this is exactly why many left for the total disrespect they received.
Heck, we have been waiting for 2 years already, and since day one we already got the ''we hear you'' talk, and here we are... still nothing.
So .. yeah.
I surely misunderstand this, but in case my last comment comes off as me wanting to be friends with Gurus, I'd just like to remark that although I found her previous comments condescending, like I said, I think the last one was a lot easier to digest and a little fairer towards the community. Also, I can imagine that reading all these comments isn't always easy, especially when your hands are tied and you can't actually say anything anyway - even if you really wanted to, which I guess they also can't say. So I'm not on a quest to be friends with gurus, but I'm definitely also not on a quest to vilify them personally for the more than obvious flaws TS4 has.
It happens over and over. Time to let the world know it happens over and over. This is not the first time and won't be the last. And if anyone has a problem with me then they know what they can do. Close my account here so I won't draw attention to the passive aggressive condescending remarks made by this moderator. Some of us (as like you) can actually see it whether others can or not. And it's high time it stops and the only way to do that is go to someone above Rachel Franklin's head. But then that might be Peter Moore, who is just as condescending. Heck he may be over in the corner cheering it on. (Yes, Gurus, I am exaggerating to make my point) but not really.
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
@carlymichelle haven't you responded the exact same thing in another thread? Reread carefully, this isn't just about toddlers. For some it may be their main concern, but clearly not for everyone. So please don't reduce it to that.
Yes. But Ryan Vaughn mentioned toddlers and pools in the same sentence, then went on to say they had built a strong foundation capable of making every one of those dreams come true (those he mentioned we were disappointed about) ...so, it was very much implied. And he was believed by people like me, who when I saw the pools took for granted they would be adding toddlers shortly. Since he said we were disappointed about those things but they could make every one of those dreams come true. Well, obviously not as we are still waiting two years later. This was before the what's in what's out blog. And it was directly spoken for fans to see so those preorders wouldn't be cancelled.
Ok, you say toddlers are 'topic of conversation every day'... What on earth are you talking about then if you STILL don't have an answer either way? You're (Company) either making them, not making them, or thinking about it. Which is it? Why say nothing? I don't get it. Are they on the table as potential or not? It's pretty simple.
Until you (whoever, I really don't care) can answer that, I'm not interested anymore.
--T
ETA: Forgot a ?
I imagine something like that...
Lol. I can't help but repeat at offensively regular intervals just how much I love that meme.
Lol.
At this point. I'd be willing to believe that.
--T
people forget they have to do all the animations etc for the sims to put it in perspective it takes disney up to 3 years to animate their movies? get what i mean?? making toddlers just doesnt happen
After two years and half knowing this was an issue all this talking about it every day, surely by now someone knows the actual answer. I assume since after two years of conversation about toddlers in a game, they would know, right? So, nothing left to be said to fans but no. I mean who discusses a problem for two years and half (everyday?) and doesn't know the answer.
Not everybody is going to be able to or want to dedicate their summer holiday time and budget to going to a gaming event. They won't all take up the invitation if it's offered. I know that if I'd been invited, I would have turned it down, even if I lived in the next country over. Other stuff in my life is more important this month. I'm sure you could ask some of the more prominent people from Poland if they received an invite?
You seem to forget that they've probably been working on TS4 for at least 3 to 4 years already, and that if it had been a priority to them, I think they would've been close to finished (if not finished) by now.
@crinrict hasn't posted anything about Gamescom in her blog. Nobody else I've seen post so far mentions the stuff you're talking about. Only a few people have posted about the event so far that I've seen. This is the most detailed description; I posted it here earlier, but maybe that was a different thread: https://julyvee94.wordpress.com/2016/08/19/the-sims-panel-and-my-experience-at-gamescom-2016/
Doesn't matter. They were either promised (the alpha interview stating that all life stages would be present) or implied (...won't be in game at launch) and therefore need to be put in, or people need to be informed otherwise. They also need to apologise for people taking their words as promises or implications. The End. No amount of variations of '..but you were informed otherwise' work, at least from my experience.
*I didn't get that from either the interview, which was back in like January before the game was launched (I believed the things I read that said the game was subject to change in an Alpha state). Nor did I take 'at launch' as an implication, but that's me.
She did a write up in German and someone translated it for us here, and it's posted here somewhere and btw, she wasn't the only one. I think I got the gest of the meeting to build more websites to promote the game. How hidden was that? Not very.