All I know is I am so sick of Bars, Bars and more Bars. Wish we could get some new lot types for a change. How about a working Casino or an Arcade.
And yes, I agree too many rabbit holes are not fun.
As for the possibility that they never planned Sims 4 to have this much content, if that is true, why? Every Sims game has had a ton of content, of course they should expect Sims 4 to have a ton of expansions. Considering it's closed world it is surprising Sims 4 can't handle what we currently have and more. This cutting back lots is getting ridiculous.
We actually don't know if Project Olympus was going to be a full multiplayer (with lots to visit, or rabbit holes, or activitites to do) other than what we saw in videos, of Sims trying to date. (In Bars). Maybe TS4 only has bars and more bars and bars because it was originally planned to be a dating game on a multiplayer scale. Where you gained points for socials and romantic interactions and spent experience points. At least that is how Project Olympus (TS4) seemed to be that type game, and maybe why they never got over the meet and greet at bars out of the core and we see more and more bars that were planned for Project Olympus.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
All I know is I am so sick of Bars, Bars and more Bars. Wish we could get some new lot types for a change. How about a working Casino or an Arcade.
And yes, I agree too many rabbit holes are not fun.
As for the possibility that they never planned Sims 4 to have this much content, if that is true, why? Every Sims game has had a ton of content, of course they should expect Sims 4 to have a ton of expansions. Considering it's closed world it is surprising Sims 4 can't handle what we currently have and more. This cutting back lots is getting ridiculous.
We actually don't know if Project Olympus was going to be a full multiplayer (with lots to visit, or rabbit holes, or activitites to do) other than what we saw in videos, of Sims trying to date. (In Bars). Maybe TS4 only has bars and more bars and bars because it was originally planned to be a dating game on a multiplayer scale. Where you gained points for socials and romantic interactions and spent experience points. At least that is how Project Olympus (TS4) seemed to be that type game, and maybe why they never got over the meet and greet at bars out of the core and we see more and more bars that were planned for Project Olympus.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
The bars are more complex than a library or a gym in that they offer food, drinks, dance, TV entertainment. Also the bar in Evergreen Harbor makes sense given its location in an industrial area. People who work hard like to drink a lot.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
The bars are more complex than a library or a gym in that they offer food, drinks, dance, TV entertainment. Also the bar in Evergreen Harbor makes sense given its location in an industrial area. People who work hard like to drink a lot.
@crocobaura They aren't much more complex actually. They don't require more work or anything. The objects like the bar that offers food and drinks or stereo that offers dance are already animated and done. Nothing complex in creating a bar compared to a gym or a library. They just aren't inventive enough to create new venue types for new EPs. They used to make lots of different ones in the Sims 3 but now everything is either a bar or a library. Just boring...
All I know is I am so sick of Bars, Bars and more Bars. Wish we could get some new lot types for a change. How about a working Casino or an Arcade.
And yes, I agree too many rabbit holes are not fun.
As for the possibility that they never planned Sims 4 to have this much content, if that is true, why? Every Sims game has had a ton of content, of course they should expect Sims 4 to have a ton of expansions. Considering it's closed world it is surprising Sims 4 can't handle what we currently have and more. This cutting back lots is getting ridiculous.
Sims 4 was always planned to have a lot of content, but it was also planned to be streamed over the internet. This is why the game could run so well on low end, old computers (by 2014 standards) because the computer was just the client. All you needed was a gpu that could handle the simple graphics, enough HD space and an internet connection. It can’t handle what it has (or what it doesnt) because the game still has a client-server architecture with your computer now handling all of the processing work instead of EA servers. The online client-server setup is exactly how they did it in SimCity which was developed alongside Sims 4 using (probably) the same engine.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
The bars are more complex than a library or a gym in that they offer food, drinks, dance, TV entertainment. Also the bar in Evergreen Harbor makes sense given its location in an industrial area. People who work hard like to drink a lot.
@crocobaura They aren't much more complex actually. They don't require more work or anything. The objects like the bar that offers food and drinks or stereo that offers dance are already animated and done. Nothing complex in creating a bar compared to a gym or a library. They just aren't inventive enough to create new venue types for new EPs. They used to make lots of different ones in the Sims 3 but now everything is either a bar or a library. Just boring...
@SimmerGeorge Oh, I wasn't thinking of how much work it's required to animate the objects, more of what the venue as a whole brings to the world. For this purpose, the bar is the social hub with a lot of possible interactions available and it makes sense to have a bar in all neighbourhoods. I agree with you that there aren't quite enough venue types, maybe we should start a petition to ask for more.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
The bars are more complex than a library or a gym in that they offer food, drinks, dance, TV entertainment. Also the bar in Evergreen Harbor makes sense given its location in an industrial area. People who work hard like to drink a lot.
@crocobaura They aren't much more complex actually. They don't require more work or anything. The objects like the bar that offers food and drinks or stereo that offers dance are already animated and done. Nothing complex in creating a bar compared to a gym or a library. They just aren't inventive enough to create new venue types for new EPs. They used to make lots of different ones in the Sims 3 but now everything is either a bar or a library. Just boring...
@SimmerGeorge Oh, I wasn't thinking of how much work it's required to animate the objects, more of what the venue as a whole brings to the world. For this purpose, the bar is the social hub with a lot of possible interactions available and it makes sense to have a bar in all neighbourhoods. I agree with you that there aren't quite enough venue types, maybe we should start a petition to ask for more.
@crocobaura Oh yeah agreed for sure but for players who have been playing for 6 years now bars got a bit old. At least for me.
@crocobaura Oh yeah agreed for sure but for players who have been playing for 6 years now bars got a bit old. At least for me.
Agreed. Bars are beyond old at this point. I don't remember any of the other games being so dependent on bars as a form of entertainment. Bars, lounges, Nightclubs -- almost all the same thing. Plus, there are now two different types of cantinas, the one in JA and now, one in JtB.
It would be so nice to have other types of venues such as theaters with working concession stands that sells all kinds of movie theater food, arcades that attract mostly kids and teen, amusement parks, miniature golf, player configurable fairs that can be placed in any town, hotels/motels/B&Bs, pool halls, nail/hair salons, barbershop, a working laundromat, a functional grocery store, or a shopping mall venue that could contain anything that the player desires!
There are so many other types of venues where Sims could meet and greet and get things done. It would be nice to see some new options.
One must remember that Sims 4 was toned down less features and more fluff, old features that was thought to be put to rest now makes an return. Of course rabbit holes were to return looking at Sims 4 narrative. Maybe the dev just figured that players wouldn't mind and took shortcuts that led to nothingness, who knows. I am not shocked at all when it comes to what Sims 4 can offer and for me it is not much, sure you get items but where is the meaty features? Nowhere to be found. The Star war Pack Imo is not worth the full price as you can't create or altered much for the other Vacation or destination spots you can alter the lots or replace lots it is what you see and that is what you going to get and that is all.
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It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.
I wonder why that is...
This statement is half true. TS3 was arguably more engaging (than TS4) however, it is heavily reliant on rabbit holes. The base game is nothing but rabbit holes and some packs add features later but that game was built on them.
Yes,
i will definitely agree - never thought I would say Sims 3 was better than any other sims game - but - yes, it is way better than Sims 4.
Sims 2 & 1 are my favorite for gameplay, Sims 3, definitely for the environments (especially love World Adventures and the ability to go anywhere).
How in the world did they think going so backwards/nonexistent gameplay was a good idea - especially given the fact that the older versions are still around to compare it with?
It's like the older versions were a 1000 piece puzzle and sims 4 is like a puzzle for infants with 5 pieces.
It is funny how the older versions of the Sims never had to rely on rabbit holes and were far more engaging.
I wonder why that is...
This statement is half true. TS3 was arguably more engaging (than TS4) however, it is heavily reliant on rabbit holes. The base game is nothing but rabbit holes and some packs add features later but that game was built on them.
Yes,
i will definitely agree - never thought I would say Sims 3 was better than any other sims game - but - yes, it is way better than Sims 4.
Sims 2 & 1 are my favorite for gameplay, Sims 3, definitely for the environments (especially love World Adventures and the ability to go anywhere).
How in the world did they think going so backwards/nonexistent gameplay was a good idea - especially given the fact that the older versions are still around to compare it with?
It's like the older versions were a 1000 piece puzzle and sims 4 is like a puzzle for infants with 5 pieces.
Totally agree, guess EA/Maxis figured they can close Pandora Box and nobody will notice.
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EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
**I stand corrected in that Sims and Sims2 really did offer at least the same level or greater value, that being said from Sims3 on this has definitely been the guiding principle and will undoubtedly continue to be.
All I know is I am so sick of Bars, Bars and more Bars. Wish we could get some new lot types for a change. How about a working Casino or an Arcade.
And yes, I agree too many rabbit holes are not fun.
As for the possibility that they never planned Sims 4 to have this much content, if that is true, why? Every Sims game has had a ton of content, of course they should expect Sims 4 to have a ton of expansions. Considering it's closed world it is surprising Sims 4 can't handle what we currently have and more. This cutting back lots is getting ridiculous.
Sims 4 was always planned to have a lot of content, but it was also planned to be streamed over the internet. This is why the game could run so well on low end, old computers (by 2014 standards) because the computer was just the client. All you needed was a gpu that could handle the simple graphics, enough HD space and an internet connection. It can’t handle what it has (or what it doesnt) because the game still has a client-server architecture with your computer now handling all of the processing work instead of EA servers. The online client-server setup is exactly how they did it in SimCity which was developed alongside Sims 4 using (probably) the same engine.
I agree with you and for me I feel if EA/Maxis had the choice to choose an new engine built from scratch or use the gimped engine they would go with an new engine. I feel it was an mistake to go with an engine that was built for another project as they have to work within the limitations the engine offers. However, it is what it is what it is and for me Sims 4 has peaked. Each game program has an creativity level that comes to an end eventually and I feel Sims 4 has again reached that creativity level endpoint and there is right now nothing they can do to impress me. If they somehow are able to add an feature from the past that was popular that would be an miracle.
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EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
Let's simplify it even more:
The base of a corporation is to get as much money as possible to it's shareholders and board members, tho board members are of less importance than shareholders.
It is, literally, it's only purpose. If the way to maximize profit is to deliver absolutely nothing and sell it for Infinity dollars, that is the ideal situation. But reality gets in the way of that so the real situation is this: There is a sweet spot for every type of product where the work hours, manufacturing costs and sell price all meet. To finely trim that spot (aka deliver as little as possible, made with as little effort as possible and as few employees as possible* ) for as high enough price as possible without cutting sales numbers is the magic bullet for a corporation.
This is why the board members of EA payed attention to the Sim City fiasco: They literally lost their bonuses, so they well... sorta kinda cared a bit, until they got their bonuses back.
*Corporations are not job creators. Not if they can avoid it. Employees are extremely expensive while being extremely unreliable; to avoid hiring people, and getting away with firing people, is something any successful company has made into a science.
EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
Let's simplify it even more:
The base of a corporation is to get as much money as possible to it's shareholders and board members, tho board members are of less importance than shareholders.
It is, literally, it's only purpose. If the way to maximize profit is to deliver absolutely nothing and sell it for Infinity dollars, that is the ideal situation. But reality gets in the way of that so the real situation is this: There is a sweet spot for every type of product where the work hours, manufacturing costs and sell price all meet. To finely trim that spot (aka deliver as little as possible, made with as little effort as possible and as few employees as possible* ) for as high enough price as possible without cutting sales numbers is the magic bullet for a corporation.
This is why the board members of EA payed attention to the Sim City fiasco: They literally lost their bonuses, so they well... sorta kinda cared a bit, until they got their bonuses back.
*Corporations are not job creators. Not if they can avoid it. Employees are extremely expensive while being extremely unreliable; to avoid hiring people, and getting away with firing people, is something any successful company has made into a science.
@gnelso1239 Yes definitely. But that's why I really dislike the idea of corporations like that. People in charge of marketing are people who went to college in order to learn how to maximize profit by any means possible. Imagine spending four years or more in college only learning about how to extract the biggest amount of money with the lease amount of effort from your customers. That completely collides with the ideas of "creativity", "fun", "innovation". Those are concepts that you might want to achieve as a game designer, but they do cost more money than lazily doing the same old and shareholders prefer that. This is where the two worlds of creative game designing and marketing collide and things like the Sims or the FIFA franchise turn into what they have become today.
There is always going to be some kind of conflict when you mix "money-making" marketing strategies with art, creative, innovative thinking etc. You see that all the time not just with big games but also with singers and artists who come into conflict with their labels for those exact reasons.
I think this problem is getting out of hand at EA and could be why they have become so hated and bring out lackluster games.
EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
Let's simplify it even more:
The base of a corporation is to get as much money as possible to it's shareholders and board members, tho board members are of less importance than shareholders.
It is, literally, it's only purpose. If the way to maximize profit is to deliver absolutely nothing and sell it for Infinity dollars, that is the ideal situation. But reality gets in the way of that so the real situation is this: There is a sweet spot for every type of product where the work hours, manufacturing costs and sell price all meet. To finely trim that spot (aka deliver as little as possible, made with as little effort as possible and as few employees as possible* ) for as high enough price as possible without cutting sales numbers is the magic bullet for a corporation.
This is why the board members of EA payed attention to the Sim City fiasco: They literally lost their bonuses, so they well... sorta kinda cared a bit, until they got their bonuses back.
*Corporations are not job creators. Not if they can avoid it. Employees are extremely expensive while being extremely unreliable; to avoid hiring people, and getting away with firing people, is something any successful company has made into a science.
@gnelso1239 Yes definitely. But that's why I really dislike the idea of corporations like that. People in charge of marketing are people who went to college in order to learn how to maximize profit by any means possible. Imagine spending four years or more in college only learning about how to extract the biggest amount of money with the lease amount of effort from your customers. That completely collides with the ideas of "creativity", "fun", "innovation". Those are concepts that you might want to achieve as a game designer, but they do cost more money than lazily doing the same old and shareholders prefer that. This is where the two worlds of creative game designing and marketing collide and things like the Sims or the FIFA franchise turn into what they have become today.
There is always going to be some kind of conflict when you mix "money-making" marketing strategies with art, creative, innovative thinking etc. You see that all the time not just with big games but also with singers and artists who come into conflict with their labels for those exact reasons.
I think this problem is getting out of hand at EA and could be why they have become so hated and bring out lackluster games.
Someone once said that when there is more than three layers of administration between the boss and the employee things turn into a money first operation. Very very few corporations that actually manufacture goods or deliver services (unlike say investment companies which are always shady) starts off like this. It is also usually telling when management is hired externally for their managing skills, with no in-knowledge of the type of business (so no promoted developers, but "experts in management").
I am old enough to remember when EA's logo looked like this:
...And back then they were a different kind of company.
EA's business model for the Sims has never been to progressively deliver at least the same (or greater value) per consumer dollar spent to purchase their products. Rather, their goal is to minimize development costs and maximize returns.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
Let's simplify it even more:
The base of a corporation is to get as much money as possible to it's shareholders and board members, tho board members are of less importance than shareholders.
It is, literally, it's only purpose. If the way to maximize profit is to deliver absolutely nothing and sell it for Infinity dollars, that is the ideal situation. But reality gets in the way of that so the real situation is this: There is a sweet spot for every type of product where the work hours, manufacturing costs and sell price all meet. To finely trim that spot (aka deliver as little as possible, made with as little effort as possible and as few employees as possible* ) for as high enough price as possible without cutting sales numbers is the magic bullet for a corporation.
This is why the board members of EA payed attention to the Sim City fiasco: They literally lost their bonuses, so they well... sorta kinda cared a bit, until they got their bonuses back.
*Corporations are not job creators. Not if they can avoid it. Employees are extremely expensive while being extremely unreliable; to avoid hiring people, and getting away with firing people, is something any successful company has made into a science.
@gnelso1239 Yes definitely. But that's why I really dislike the idea of corporations like that. People in charge of marketing are people who went to college in order to learn how to maximize profit by any means possible. Imagine spending four years or more in college only learning about how to extract the biggest amount of money with the lease amount of effort from your customers. That completely collides with the ideas of "creativity", "fun", "innovation". Those are concepts that you might want to achieve as a game designer, but they do cost more money than lazily doing the same old and shareholders prefer that. This is where the two worlds of creative game designing and marketing collide and things like the Sims or the FIFA franchise turn into what they have become today.
There is always going to be some kind of conflict when you mix "money-making" marketing strategies with art, creative, innovative thinking etc. You see that all the time not just with big games but also with singers and artists who come into conflict with their labels for those exact reasons.
I think this problem is getting out of hand at EA and could be why they have become so hated and bring out lackluster games.
Someone once said that when there is more than three layers of administration between the boss and the employee things turn into a money first operation. Very very few corporations that actually manufacture goods or deliver services (unlike say investment companies which are always shady) starts off like this. It is also usually telling when management is hired externally for their managing skills, with no in-knowledge of the type of business (so no promoted developers, but "experts in management").
I am old enough to remember when EA's logo looked like this:
...And back then they were a different kind of company.
Oh yes, I remember that as well and I really enjoyed the games they put out. It is the people who change the company and the current people in charge has not necessarily changed the business for the better.
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I think they overanalyzed why we didn't like Get to Work that much, and came to the conclusion that open/active careers/lots wasn't what we desired. Which is completely wrong. We do want all lots/jobs/works to be playable, as option, but GTW was such a bad frankenstein of Open for Business and Ambitions, that was halfbaked and empty that we just can't enjoy it.
I adore the rabbit holes. The last thing I wanna do is control my Sims at every single moment. I very much like that I can send them off somewhere and do other things with other Sims.
@Chazzzy I don't get it, cus even with current active careers you can choose not to control your sism everysingle day. Of course you need to go there once, but itsn ot that bothersome.
Comments
We actually don't know if Project Olympus was going to be a full multiplayer (with lots to visit, or rabbit holes, or activitites to do) other than what we saw in videos, of Sims trying to date. (In Bars). Maybe TS4 only has bars and more bars and bars because it was originally planned to be a dating game on a multiplayer scale. Where you gained points for socials and romantic interactions and spent experience points. At least that is how Project Olympus (TS4) seemed to be that type game, and maybe why they never got over the meet and greet at bars out of the core and we see more and more bars that were planned for Project Olympus.
This tracks to me. Seems plausible.
Bars as such? Simple explanation, it is a lot type that exists in base game so it will work if you only use the base game and that particular expansion. That's logical.
However, even with that criteria, which is fully logical, there are also: Gyms, Nigh clubs (without DJ booth), library, museum, lounge to choose from.
I think there is a single expansion world that has a lounge in it (from Pets). AND a bar, but that actually shows that they put MORE work in that world and not less, because two venues instead of one.
There is no reason why the single venue in Evergreen Harbor wouldn't be a Lounge, a Library or a Gym, for example.
The bars are more complex than a library or a gym in that they offer food, drinks, dance, TV entertainment. Also the bar in Evergreen Harbor makes sense given its location in an industrial area. People who work hard like to drink a lot.
@crocobaura They aren't much more complex actually. They don't require more work or anything. The objects like the bar that offers food and drinks or stereo that offers dance are already animated and done. Nothing complex in creating a bar compared to a gym or a library. They just aren't inventive enough to create new venue types for new EPs. They used to make lots of different ones in the Sims 3 but now everything is either a bar or a library. Just boring...
Sims 4 was always planned to have a lot of content, but it was also planned to be streamed over the internet. This is why the game could run so well on low end, old computers (by 2014 standards) because the computer was just the client. All you needed was a gpu that could handle the simple graphics, enough HD space and an internet connection. It can’t handle what it has (or what it doesnt) because the game still has a client-server architecture with your computer now handling all of the processing work instead of EA servers. The online client-server setup is exactly how they did it in SimCity which was developed alongside Sims 4 using (probably) the same engine.
@SimmerGeorge Oh, I wasn't thinking of how much work it's required to animate the objects, more of what the venue as a whole brings to the world. For this purpose, the bar is the social hub with a lot of possible interactions available and it makes sense to have a bar in all neighbourhoods. I agree with you that there aren't quite enough venue types, maybe we should start a petition to ask for more.
@crocobaura Oh yeah agreed for sure but for players who have been playing for 6 years now bars got a bit old. At least for me.
Agreed. Bars are beyond old at this point. I don't remember any of the other games being so dependent on bars as a form of entertainment. Bars, lounges, Nightclubs -- almost all the same thing. Plus, there are now two different types of cantinas, the one in JA and now, one in JtB.
It would be so nice to have other types of venues such as theaters with working concession stands that sells all kinds of movie theater food, arcades that attract mostly kids and teen, amusement parks, miniature golf, player configurable fairs that can be placed in any town, hotels/motels/B&Bs, pool halls, nail/hair salons, barbershop, a working laundromat, a functional grocery store, or a shopping mall venue that could contain anything that the player desires!
There are so many other types of venues where Sims could meet and greet and get things done. It would be nice to see some new options.
Yes,
i will definitely agree - never thought I would say Sims 3 was better than any other sims game - but - yes, it is way better than Sims 4.
Sims 2 & 1 are my favorite for gameplay, Sims 3, definitely for the environments (especially love World Adventures and the ability to go anywhere).
How in the world did they think going so backwards/nonexistent gameplay was a good idea - especially given the fact that the older versions are still around to compare it with?
It's like the older versions were a 1000 piece puzzle and sims 4 is like a puzzle for infants with 5 pieces.
Totally agree, guess EA/Maxis figured they can close Pandora Box and nobody will notice.
**I stand corrected in that Sims and Sims2 really did offer at least the same level or greater value, that being said from Sims3 on this has definitely been the guiding principle and will undoubtedly continue to be.
I agree with you and for me I feel if EA/Maxis had the choice to choose an new engine built from scratch or use the gimped engine they would go with an new engine. I feel it was an mistake to go with an engine that was built for another project as they have to work within the limitations the engine offers. However, it is what it is what it is and for me Sims 4 has peaked. Each game program has an creativity level that comes to an end eventually and I feel Sims 4 has again reached that creativity level endpoint and there is right now nothing they can do to impress me. If they somehow are able to add an feature from the past that was popular that would be an miracle.
@gnelso1239 Which is great for business but terrible for theh quality...
Let's simplify it even more:
The base of a corporation is to get as much money as possible to it's shareholders and board members, tho board members are of less importance than shareholders.
It is, literally, it's only purpose. If the way to maximize profit is to deliver absolutely nothing and sell it for Infinity dollars, that is the ideal situation. But reality gets in the way of that so the real situation is this: There is a sweet spot for every type of product where the work hours, manufacturing costs and sell price all meet. To finely trim that spot (aka deliver as little as possible, made with as little effort as possible and as few employees as possible* ) for as high enough price as possible without cutting sales numbers is the magic bullet for a corporation.
This is why the board members of EA payed attention to the Sim City fiasco: They literally lost their bonuses, so they well... sorta kinda cared a bit, until they got their bonuses back.
*Corporations are not job creators. Not if they can avoid it. Employees are extremely expensive while being extremely unreliable; to avoid hiring people, and getting away with firing people, is something any successful company has made into a science.
@gnelso1239 Yes definitely. But that's why I really dislike the idea of corporations like that. People in charge of marketing are people who went to college in order to learn how to maximize profit by any means possible. Imagine spending four years or more in college only learning about how to extract the biggest amount of money with the lease amount of effort from your customers. That completely collides with the ideas of "creativity", "fun", "innovation". Those are concepts that you might want to achieve as a game designer, but they do cost more money than lazily doing the same old and shareholders prefer that. This is where the two worlds of creative game designing and marketing collide and things like the Sims or the FIFA franchise turn into what they have become today.
There is always going to be some kind of conflict when you mix "money-making" marketing strategies with art, creative, innovative thinking etc. You see that all the time not just with big games but also with singers and artists who come into conflict with their labels for those exact reasons.
I think this problem is getting out of hand at EA and could be why they have become so hated and bring out lackluster games.
Someone once said that when there is more than three layers of administration between the boss and the employee things turn into a money first operation. Very very few corporations that actually manufacture goods or deliver services (unlike say investment companies which are always shady) starts off like this. It is also usually telling when management is hired externally for their managing skills, with no in-knowledge of the type of business (so no promoted developers, but "experts in management").
I am old enough to remember when EA's logo looked like this:
...And back then they were a different kind of company.
Oh yes, I remember that as well and I really enjoyed the games they put out. It is the people who change the company and the current people in charge has not necessarily changed the business for the better.
@Chazzzy I don't get it, cus even with current active careers you can choose not to control your sism everysingle day. Of course you need to go there once, but itsn ot that bothersome.