Some of the traits that did work well for me :
- Lazy : my lazy Sims oversleep when I'm not looking, and is all stressed when he need to clean things.
- Romantic : my romantic Sim is a single mother with her child and playing a single romantic mother is rather complicated, she's becoming tense rather often.
- Hot-headed : angry mood is not an emotion I have often so I know which of my Sims are the hot-headed ones. I think the random moodlet work rather well for this one.
- Childlish : my childlish are always playing with the children toys, can't miss it. I don't like the "buy a toy" whim though.
what do you mean by "work well" ?
how do you play eg with the tense mood ?
I mean it have an impact on the way I will play that Sims even if I keep the personnality panel closed, I can't ignore this trait, and I take it into consideration when I play.
For example my lazy Sim is my first retail owner, I'm trying to do a bakery. I discovered it's not the best combination at all because he is always standing up and whenever he has to clean the display stand, he is all tensed. At this point, the best I can do is sending him back to the kitchen because he is taking it out on all the customers. This Sim is starting to become a bit chubby too, maybe I will try to make it do some jogging, even if he won't like it.
At the opposite side of the spectrum, I can't tell you which of my Sims has the cheerful trait. I know some of them have it, but without opening the trait panel or checking in the moodlet tooltip, I don't notice it.
The whims don't interest me because all they do is give point to buy things, and most of those feel like disguised cheat codes to me and just drown the personality trait in the UI. That's odd because that wasn't a problem for me in TS2 with the unlockable bonus (the 4x4 mini tree), maybe because those bonus were more aspiration specific or seemed more subtle.
a very interesting thought, because it never before crossed my mind that they can be played that mechanistic
in general i don't play wishes as tasks towards rewards,
but that is probably indeed the only thought the devs produced regarding those wishes, which indeed deminishes them to pure functionality
Well that's all there is left now that fullfilling whims has no direct impact on the Sims. I think it could have worked with the moodlets/emotion system : fears giving a sad moodlet for example or fullfilling bigger wants giving a happy moodlet.
Some of the traits that did work well for me :
- Lazy : my lazy Sims oversleep when I'm not looking, and is all stressed when he need to clean things.
- Romantic : my romantic Sim is a single mother with her child and playing a single romantic mother is rather complicated, she's becoming tense rather often.
- Hot-headed : angry mood is not an emotion I have often so I know which of my Sims are the hot-headed ones. I think the random moodlet work rather well for this one.
- Childlish : my childlish are always playing with the children toys, can't miss it. I don't like the "buy a toy" whim though.
what do you mean by "work well" ?
how do you play eg with the tense mood ?
I mean it have an impact on the way I will play that Sims even if I keep the personnality panel closed, I can't ignore this trait, and I take it into consideration when I play.
For example my lazy Sim is my first retail owner, I'm trying to do a bakery. I discovered it's not the best combination at all because he is always standing up and whenever he has to clean the display stand, he is all tensed. At this point, the best I can do is sending him back to the kitchen because he is taking it out on all the customers. This Sim is starting to become a bit chubby too, maybe I will try to make it do some jogging, even if he won't like it.
At the opposite side of the spectrum, I can't tell you which of my Sims has the cheerful trait. I know some of them have it, but without opening the trait panel or checking in the moodlet tooltip, I don't notice it. ...
ah, i understand, you mean those traits are more apparent to you than other traits
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for me are those sims' wishes expression of personality of a sim
if eg the sim doesn't produce a wish regarding a relationship with another sim, how do i distinguish that sim from another one ?
if the only distinction between sims is their mere look, then TheSims doesn't need any code regarding inner life of sims, then a mere meshes & poses & daily tasks program is sufficient without any care for traits & aspirations & such ... & maybe that's what actually happened to TS4
wishes are for me thoughts of sims
i wouldn't use wishes of sims only to gain those points towards rewards
in TS3 & in TS2 fulfilled wishes not only play towards rewards but they improve the happiness & confidence of the sim & in result that sim is more capable, more successfull in every action
that is what true confidence would look like if there would be a better connection between traits, wishes & emotions in TS4
but the emotion confident overrides every other emotion, eg flirty or focused or inspired & disables the sim instead to enable to succeed
confident disrupts instead to enable
in RL there is no character, no trait that is confidence, confidence is a state related to other things, other traits, to experience
the confident trait in TS4 works rather like haughtiness & the damper is the option to discover for the sim something bad about him in the mirror - vain haughtiness
i think even that the idea to gain with fulfilled wishes points which collected form additional traits has simplified TheSims to a quick mobile game
those fulfilled wishes had to work towards memory & shaping the characted further, but there is no memory & the character is very lacking, that way there is no other game to play than a quick mobile but it reduces this game to a competition with all those thousands of other quick mobile games out there with points & microtransaction to speed it even further
I agree very much on what you said there. And I wonder, that this topic is not discussed more on the forums. Obviously only few simmers are playing wishes, like we do. I also have the impression that those wishes now are only a little minigame to gain points to spend them on something. I dislike it. I loved the way that those fulfilled wishes contributed to the overall state of happiness, in the same way as fears lessend that happiness level. And that this level of happiness affected how they would develop in live. In the end in influenced their life time span. Now it's very unimportant what's happening to the sim, cause after the short emotion buff, they won't remember that anything happened at all. It's so sad. They are empty shells. They have less emotion than ever...
i think people notice it but are not quite able to pinpoint why they dislike to play those sims
they say that those sims are robotic or shallow
if a sim produces wishes regarding buying, if different sims produce same wishes although having different traits
that superficiality & exchangeability adds to the repeating animations, erratic moods & reactions
many people said also that traits in TS4 don't matter at all, it's an exaggeration but in general it's correct
& one part of the traits are wishes, so those are also perceived as exchangeable
well, i can't quite understand that the devs have released the game with the current state of the sims themselves
cause those sims damage the franchise at its core
even if we had toddlers, teens of a different definition & height, babies to carry around, terrain tools, open world, no loading screens, functioning story progression with an off checkbox & CASt, that game would be still shallow because of those one dimensioned sims without memory, unable to experience, live through, react & interact, poor in traits
but maybe then it would be clearer perceivable
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
even if we had toddlers, teens of a different definition & height, babies to carry around, terrain tools, open world, no loading screens, functioning story progression with an off checkbox & CASt, that game would be still shallow because of those one dimensioned sims without memory, unable to experience, live through, react & interact, poor in traits
sad but true
(*) My Origin-ID GoodFairy684 (*)
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
let's give Frederik & Annika another chance to live happily ever after ... married
i left off when Frederik was in flirty mood, Annika there & what he wished for was stuff related to his career, his traits & a sim he met briefly ages ago ... nothing romantic at all
now straight into the game ... regarding wishes
slot 1. could be better directed towards Annika but at least it's flirty related : Woohoo with Someone ! +++
slot 2. was something with reading (clicked further sooner than shot the first pic) - - -
slot 3. a wish regarding a breakthrough - - -
slot 2 with further clicking
1) reading - - -
2) improve object (nerd-trait) - - -
3) friends with that Rodrigo kid (got to know someone new) - - -
4) hug Annika (cause near a romantic relationship) +++
slot 3 with further clicking
1) breakthrough (science career) - - -
2) friends with that Rodrigo kid (got to know someone new) - - -
3) compliment Annika (cause near a romantic relationship) +++
feels like an improvement
in contrast to the previous 10 something clicks now only 3 to 4 clicks to get the sim to wish something related to the present situation he's in & to his present overall mood is definately an improvement
could be happenstance though or whatever other reason ... further testing is needed ...
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
A thorough suggestion about how relationships and other little things should work on Sims 4
-WHAT TURNS YOUR SIM ON AND OFF: THE KEY TO TWO-SIDED RELATIONSHIPS COMING BACK.
I wish we could choose what Sims like or dislike the most about other Sims, just like in Sims 2. Besides, that would put an end to that stupid Sims 3 attraction that goes like: “Oh my God, I just saw you once and talked to you for like fifteen Sim minutes, I have an ongoing 1-lifestage relationship and my soon-to-be-wife is pregnant with twins, but I think I have fallen for you. So, you know, I’m going to call you like, every two 🐸🐸🐸🐸 hours to ask you out, send you a vending machine in YOUR MAILBOX as a courtship gift along with a love letter, and have you read disgusting pop-ups about how hot I think you are every time we happen to meet. By the way, I’m Mr. Jones, your elder university teacher”.
Also, real life relationships are WAAAAY harder. You don’t just like someone, have them like you back and live happily ever after. I mean, by choosing which physical and psychical (Let’s not forget about our dear Simmies’ traits!) qualities –or even lifestages, within a reasonable range, like elders being attracted to young adults- are more attractive to your Sims, things like this could happen: Your Sim (let’s name her Susie) is a Bookworm redhead, and is REALLY attracted to blonde Sims with the Party Animal trait, and she meets some hot blonde guy who throws the best parties around. She is romantically interested and wants to know him, but sadly, this Sim (let’s call him Stuart) greatly dislikes red-haired Sims with the Bookworm trait, so he rejects Susie the first time he sees her and agrees to be nothing but friends with her, IF SO (maybe if a Sim is, say, Snobby, they could just refuse to befriend anyone whose traits they dislike).
Another good point about this would be: this would allow for different levels of attraction to take place. For example, if we could choose… four things that really turn our Sim on, and two (or four, too) which they can’t stand in a potential mate, the level of attraction to another Sim could depend on how many of his/her qualities match/mismatch our Sim’s “must-haves”. Susie likes blond-haired, Party Animal Sims, and also the ones with the Good Sense of Humor and Bookworm trait. On the other side, she hates Snobby, Evil Sims. Therefore, she felt equally appealed by our aforementioned Stuart and by a guy who spends a lot of time at the library and just told her a joke when he introduced himself as, I don’t know, Joe. This happens because each one has two of the traits she likes the most. However, when blonde Steven, one of her new classmates, walks in and invites everyone to a party, aside from making a few jokes about their elder teacher, Mr. Jones, she just falls in love (pity that he also doesn't fancy Bookworms). Needless to say that she hates Jack, an Evil classmate that’s always picking on her and thinks he’s better than anyone, even though he also has blond hair.
We want A SMART ATTRACTION SYSTEM, PLEASE. Unrequited love happens. So does love at first sight, or instant rejection. PLEASE BEAR THAT IN MIND.
Also, I personally WANT one-night stands. Many of us have met a nice guy/girl at a pub, drunk some alcohol, thought they were cute enough and made out with them or even more. And you may or may not remember their name/have their phone the day after. KISSING ONCE, especially with someone you’ve just met, does not mean that person will be sending you messages every day, wanting to hang out and such.
-YOUR SIMS’ RELATIONSHIPS TRIGGER A REACTION IN OTHER SIMS
For example, if a teen Sim starts a relationship with a ‘bad guy’ or ‘bad girl’, or maybe someone who has seriously offended that Sim’s parents, parents may complain, advice their child against going out with that Sim, or not allow them to bring that Sim home. They could even forbid him/her to see that Sim again. Then it’s our Sim’s choice to take that advice or disobey his/her parents and continue the relationship. And maybe, MAYBE, if the parents find out the relationship is still going on, they could scold their child very badly, with a subsequent relationship loss, or throw them out from home if they are grown up.
On the other hand, when Susie starts going out with Joe, everyone is delighted: He’s handsome, gets really good grades and is fun to be with. Susie’s parents can wish for her to invite him to dinner more often, or even brag in front of their friends about what a good guy their daughter is going out with.
However, news don’t travel THAT fast. The fact that Susie and Joe are dating does not mean that EVERYONE in the neighborhood will AUTOMATICALLY know; when they were just meeting at each other’s place, no one would start a rumor, since there was NO WAY for others to know. It’s not until they are seen together, or VOLUNTARILY spill the beans, that other Sims will know. Thus, the reason why Evil Jack is called a player is because while he is known to have a long-distance relationship he’s been spotted with other girls numerous times. SPOTTED, NOT MAGICAL COGNITION (Yes, I hate when rumors start after things you do AT HOME).
-PLEASE BRING THE FURY STATE BACK!
If your boyfriend cheats on your Sim, or if he/she has a fight with their best friends, it’s but logical that they’ll feel furious at the moment and lose a certain amount of relationship points (more or less depending on how serious the offense is). Right after that, your Sim won’t be willing to talk to their friends or perform any romantic interaction with their couple for a while, but after some time (if they do not break up, which could happen with temperamental Sims) it’s normal to calm down and be receptive again.
-SIM TRAITS CHANGE ALONG WITH THEIR ACTIONS AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM, OR ARE EVEN ADDED/SUBSTRACTED.
Susie has No Sense of Humor, but after a very long time dating Joe, she starts getting jokes faster and making her own, and eventually her trait changes and she develops into a Sim with a great Sense of Humor.
If Susie hadn’t been a Bookworm herself, sharing activities and interests with her boyfriend Joe, who is, would have eventually led her to the acquisition of that trait. It’s nothing but natural that, if you start reading a lot, going to the library periodically and sharing book reviews with other friends, you end up being a Bookworm. The same goes with doing a lot of activities outside and becoming an Outdoor Lover, or never cleaning up until you acquire the Slob trait. A Flirty Sim that gets in a serious relationship and doesn’t flirt for very long will finally lose that trait, although after breaking up he may recover it by using a few pick-up lines and having an affair or two. Maybe after a long time of only eating vegetal dishes your Sims considers becoming a Vegetarian?
-ROUTINE IS A RELATIONSHIP-KILLER
Happens every day. Susie was getting along very well with Joe, but after they graduated from University they moved together and sadly, a mortgage is expensive and hard work is required to pay it. They both work from morning to evening, and when they arrive home they are so tired that they just heat up some leftovers and barely talk about superfluous things before going to sleep, exhausted. Even though they have a little time on Sundays, they won’t do anything special, and whoohoo is almost out of the question. After a long time going on like this, a routine warning will appear on their relationship icon: if they don’t start to make plans together (a date, a trip or the like), their love will start to perish. Should you not remedy this situation, a day will come when one of them, or both, decide it’s time to put an end to their relation. Something similar could happen with friendship, although that has been featured better in previous Sims games.
-MEMORIES CONDITION AND SHAPE YOUR SIM’S BEHAVIOR IN THE FUTURE; THE WAY RELATIONSHIPS WORK.
Even though the choice of ending it was also hers, Susie feels a bit sad that it all went that way with Joe. This feeling is not a mood (I can’t speak about those since we have seen very little about them, but from what we’ve been shown I feel that they directly affect the Sim’s actions in short-term rather than the long run), it is an EXPERIENCE. Experiences do not have to pain your Sim always or make then happy forever, but to TEACH them something.
For example, a Sim that has been cheated on will probably refuse to pair up with a Flirty Sim anytime soon, or one said to be a player. Or, at least, they will need some time to recover from that past experience and open up to a Sim that’s in some way similar to the one that came before.
In Susie’s case, this breakup has affected her in several ways: Although it’s not as bad as being dumped, she still feels down, but besides she’s not as up for a relationship as she was before dating Joe.
It could be a little bonus that Sims tend to look for Sims that at least differ in some ways from their previous partner, as we tend to do in real life, out of the need of avoiding another breakup for similar reasons.
Following this experience system, we could have something really cool about relationships: Not all Sims will look for the same. Not every story is about meeting, flirting, kissing and becoming a couple, then marrying and having children. Yes, a Sim who is a Hopeless Romantic will almost ALWAYS be looking for that kind of relation, but someone with Commitment Issues will have to find a Sim they REALLY fall in love with (one that matches ALL or at least almost all of their “must-haves” and has none of the traits that they loathe) in order to be willing to do so.
Nonetheless, while other Sim would possibly want to start flirting again in order to overcome a breakup, a broken-hearted Romantic may not, and prefer to stay home for a time. And even after that, they won’t probably be looking for one-night stands, but for long-lasting relationships.
A different case would be a Flirty Sim, or even a liberal one if those were possible; those kind of Sims probably wouldn’t mind an open relationship where they could meet other people, or even a no-ties-whatsoever thing, where there would be no consequences for sleeping with others, and they’d still be together.
IMO, when starting a relationship, the player should be prompted with a dialog box to adjust the initial terms of it. However, it would be limited by the two Sim’s traits: You wouldn’t be allowed to choose an open relationship in which a Hopeless Romantic participates, even if the other is one of the Flirty kind. Or at least you would be warned that your poor Sim is going to suffer every time their liberal couple takes advantage of the perks of an open relationship (meaning whoohoing whoever they want in town). Also, someone with commitment issues that isn’t truly in love with the other Sim would probably find a nuisance to just stick to one Sim. And past experience should play a role when deciding on a new relationship (If having an open relation didn't work for them, they might not want to try it again).
But this is not only about love, which is nice, but still. If, say, Susie’s mother died from illness, because they took her to a doctor too late, Susie would make sure to take her sister to a doctor as soon as she starts to cough. See? Living and learning.
Another one: if Joe tells a friend that he still misses Susie and that friend does not keep the secret, Joe will not want to trust him again for that matter (also, Sims revealing things they are told should depend on how high is their relation with the Sim who trusted them).
I don’t just want independent Sims: I want independent Sims THAT WILL NOT RUIN THEIR LIVES BY MAKING THE STUPIDEST CHOICES POSSIBLE. I want Sims to be independent to a certain point only if they are smart enough.
-REAL DRUNK SIMS:
No more “A bit juiced” or “super juiced” crap. I’ll have my Sims real drunk, thanks. And that, IMO, can only be achieved by them AUTONOMOUSLY AND INEVITABLY doing some crazy stuff. That meaning, when “a bit juiced”, they will suddenly do something you can’t control, like telling a spicy joke or some silly dance, or shouting something stupid, and you CANNOT cancel that action. It could be real funny because Sims would still keep their sense and do only harmless things. However, when “Super juiced”, it’s hardcore mode we’re talking about. You lose control of your Sim: You CAN’T TELL HIM WHAT TO DO OR WHAT NOT (until drunkenness is gone), except maybe not allowing them to drink more. You can just watch actions appearing in queue and behold the disaster coming. From them hitting on a girl who's next to her boyfriend to calling their relatives in the middle of the night, start crying uncontrollably or even running naked. You won’t be able to direct them to go home, use the toilet, etc. They’ll have to come up with that by themselves. Now THAT is what I call drunk.
-STORY PROGRESSION
Yeah, if we could choose different flavors, that would be the thing. I don’t always fancy one of the Sims I created and left for a while adopting a burrito baby (for god’s sake, get rid of those poor things), two astray cats and marrying an obese slob who spends his unemployed days couch-potatoing. However, I don’t want life to remain the same around me while I’m minding my own business either. I just want the choices that Sims autonomously make to be reasoned to some extent.
By the way, it would be cool if we could choose between pets being completely autonomous as in Sims 2 or controlling them Sims 3-style.
-EVENT PLANIFICATION
Would be nice if we could schedule a party or anything for the next week, and modify the date or conditions whenever necessary.
-FAMILY TREE
This is an idea I saw before in the forums and it's just fantastic: We should be able to edit it. For example, create a family in CAS and then set family bonds with a family that already exits in the neighborhood. Brilliant.
-BRING BACK THE MEMORIES SIMS 2-STYLE.
Was I the only one checking the memories of the family I'd just picked, before anything? I liked to know what those tiny people had been up to before I controlled them. If so, they would have to change the way each Sim keeps those memories, depending on their personality. Anyway, don't take anything from Sims 3 for this. I'm begging.
I'll probably come up with more later, but I was tired English is not my mohter tongue, and it's double tiring to think about something, then translating it.
What do you think, leaving me being a very bored girl on weekends aside?
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
f3. compliment Annika
f3. be friendly with Annika
w3. talk with that Rodrigo kid
w1. practice pick up line in mirror (changed from woohoo although the Flirty went up to Very Flirty)
mood down again to Flirty
wishes slot 3. :
buy microscope (genius)
1x1 pool (lack of luxus at home)
higher level of chess skill
1x1 pool
criticise someone (snob)
talk with Rodrigo (got to know someone new)
buy microscope (genius)
prevent abductions (science career)
read somenting (nerd)
talk with Rodrigo
higher level of chess skill
1x1 pool
...
slot 2. :
f2. hug Annika (romantic relationship)
w2. surf the internet
...
romantic action : seduce
w3. get to know someone new (because cheerful)
action : invite to stay over night
"a pajama party, that's great" says Annika, in a flirt mood
w1. practice pick up line in mirror
w1. Hug Someone
f1. Hug Someone
w1. Kiss Someone
mood up to Very Flirty
w1. shower cold (cause flirty - that wish always breaks any further interactions in that direction, as if the sim doesn't want to be flirty anymore)
w1. Kiss Someone
(although very flirty, the other two slots are not correspondent to the overall mood & not to the present situation)
slot 2. : buy 1x1 pool
slot 3. : clone something
...
mood drops back to Flirty
f1. Kiss Someone
w1. higher level of charisma skill
w1. tell a dirty joke
f1. tell a dirty joke (which went badly, he's not so funny, but at least he's not embarrassed)
w1. higher level of charisma skill
autonomous action : dancing (cancelled by me)
w1. Flirt with Someone
f1. Flirt with Someone
w1. watch a romantic TV show
w2. criticise someone (snob)
w3. buy 1x1 pool (lack of luxus at home - that wish clutters slot 2 & 3 with a permanent appearance)
w2. buy microscope (genius)
w3. higher level of chess skill (nerd)
...
so back to square one again, nothing is improved, not even changed - all hopes shattered
i am giving up at that point with the tryout to play those sims
next stop Gamescom in august
hopes for a family EP at least at the end of 2015,
if it's not there, then i move on completely, move out for good from TS4, it's unbearable to play that game as TheSims
bye bye Frederik & Annika, i'm sorry that your life will probably remain unfinished, while it not even began
you are just too dumb to be true sims
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Whims are absolutely arbitrary and random wishes in TS4. That's why I stopped considering those for my game play. I'm really hoping, that they change this, cause wishes in TS2 influenced a lot how I played different sims and it therefore influenced their unique life story. Right now everything relies on the aspiration goals, which are the same for everybody when chosen the same aspiration. So every sims is more or less doing the same stuff... it's hard to adapt to a different game play style and I prefer the one I'm used to from TS2.
(*) My Origin-ID GoodFairy684 (*)
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
that different gameplay would mean that i had to disregard wishes completely
but what remains then to be played ?
in the end would such a sim be nothing but an avatar without any distiction to any other sim, because the differences between the sims are marginal, more tense more flirty more focused more inspired more athletic than any other sim
the traits that show in action are all emotions related which sum up to 15 traits tops (angry, bored, confident, dazzed, embarrassed, energized, flirty, focused, happy, inspired, playful, sad, tense, uncomfortable & OK)
& distinct combinations are not possible because there is a big portion of random emotion included & every sim shows at some point all of those 15 trait/emotions
& therefore, have you played one TS4 sim then you have played them all
the only difference is skin deep
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I agree making Sims really different is a bit complicated currently. But they can't do much with just the traits alone, if they make them matter too much, the Sims will be too much exagerated. I don't want my bookworm to do nothing but read or my slob never moving. But if they don't matter enough, Sims become bland.
I still see the effects of traits currently, but it's basically more a "on average, over a long period of time, this Sim will tend to do this more". If I spot a Sim washing the dishes, it's more likely to be the neat one, my family Sim is spending more time with the family, but overall it's rather subtle. The emotion trait are probably the easier to spot, but I'm not sure the random moodlet is the best way to go, sometimes it feel a bit too much random
i see as the problem that those sims are programmed too wide in their preferences
somehow as if the makers couldn't decide
if the traits the player is choosing for the sims in CAS should matter
or if those sims should become personalities while being played first
currently we have neither the first nor the second clearly acting out but rather interferring with each other, which results in a muddled way of all sims tending towards the same personality with a slight tendency towards the traits & that aspirational trait, but because aspirations can be changed so easily every sim has the opportunity to become - everything - that's just boring to play, where are the differencies ? i don't see any, the sims move in the same way if they are not using those silly walks, they have very similiar voices, they all tell the same jokes with the same animation to the audience reacting in the very same way, they all use the computer, dance to stereo, watch TV - it's repeat
& after 10 months i just don't believe anymore in the potential of this game, potential is gone after 6 months, half a year in which either it is pushed clearly into the development direction or it will stay that way forever because now after nearly a year those people who like those sims as they are would be very unhappy if those sims suddenly would become very different
& those sims had to be very different to how they are now io to be personalities at all
so why change those sims, it would mean programming work, they seem not even to work on the very obvious gamebreaking things like the incest bug or options about culling, the personality of those sims is probably one of the smallest concerns of the devs
i suppose people who like those sims as they are now just like also their uniformity
so i don't think it will ever be better
especially because in the previous iterations the tweaks done to the sims themselves were rather minor changes, the overall character of the sims never changed much from day one of the initial release, they became wider with more options but not different to how they started out
if those rather uniform TS4 sims become even wider that won't change their uniformity
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
... I loved the way that those fulfilled wishes contributed to the overall state of happiness, in the same way as fears lessend that happiness level. And that this level of happiness affected how they would develop in live. In the end in influenced their life time span. Now it's very unimportant what's happening to the sim, cause after the short emotion buff, they won't remember that anything happened at all. It's so sad. They are empty shells. They have less emotion than ever...
yes - that is what makes me very sad about those sims
they look more realistic, are more elaborately done in the way they look
but their inner life has shriveled to nonexistence
as i started in september 2014 to make sims i imagined that i could make different sims, different in their look & different in their character
very distinguishable as personalities ... at the beginning there were only some grains of sand that i sensed that there are no personalities to distinguish, that sand has grown over the months to stones & now those are meantime a massive of montains, unsurmountable in my estimation
those sims can look very distinguishable but they are at their core the very same one sim with miniscule differences
Post edited by Rukola_Schaaf on
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
since i was going to replay in that post in a thread JimG72 <<< with the line :
"do bookworms on their own prefer now a book to their phone to gain fun ?"
so i started my current test with a bookworm io to test the current scope of that trait
the first test subject is Christobel Daubney
she's Bookworm, Neat, Perfectionist
her starting aspiration was Mansion Baron with the accompanying trait Thrifty
it's a sim i made some time ago among others but never got to play her, she was just one of my background townies
i've let her now dwell in Oasis Springs, the house unfurnished
1. she didn't wish immediately for a bookcase, in fact she didn't wish for anything to buy despite there was no fridge, no toilet, no bed
& i have to say i always liked that sims wished for the basic things in their lives, it made them appear caring for themselves, for their ability to live
TS4 sims seem to be impartial about if they live or not, their only response to the absence of a surrounding & situation providing them with the basic necessities is at best moaning & being unhappy & moaning more & displaying their displeasure in an extremely passive way
but back to the bookworm
she was standing in front of the house & i was expecting her to take out her phone & start playing phone games but NOPE, she took her phone out but started surfing the web instead, which was really nice, way better than trying to fulfill a fun meter which is still quite full
so the first thing i bought her was a bookcase, despite her not wishing for it
i liked it very much that in TS2 & TS3 bookworms seemed almost obcessed by books & bookcases
that's maybe rather a bit unrealistic but it made sims' traits shine bright through
so i cancelled her interaction with the phone, placed the bookshelf & the first thing she then did was INDEED to head to the bookcase, take out on her own a book & read
a BIG PLUS that is for the trait
+
2. i furnished her house with the necessities
one of her wishes was to accomplish something in perfect quality & she did that later by making some meals, which made her learn the cooking skill, which then lead the game to give her by itself into the cooking career, which i didn't have at all in mind for her
3. i think i dislike that the Perfectionist trait is taking quite a lot of wishing space & overshadowing the Bookworm trait, because i have to make her stray away from being a bookworm io to make accomplish being a perfectionist
what i would like is that the traits of a sim mingle & mix & define that way a sim & not that some traits with more elaborate things to do are taking over the entire personality & supersede the other traits
or i wish that i am able to highlight one trait as the leading one for a personality of a sim, that would give me the opportunity to lead the sim's personality
4. because of the bookworm trait i thought i should take her to the library & see how she behaves there
i was expecting her to head to the computers, but NOPE, she went for a book instead
that is after i called her to enter the building first, since she was standing there at first in front of it doing nothing for some time
as i learned later, it's somehow a pause sims have when they land in front of a building when they're doing nothing, the game's probably still loading despite time running already
& a second nice surprise was, that the first book she took out of the shelves was one teaching her the writing skill
but that was probably a random choice, nothing coherent with any of Christobel's traits, a pity, it would be nice if sims would choose matching things to do & interact, matching their already existent personality content
+ +
5. Christobel was about to surf the bookcases & read here & there some of the books a little, she displayed that behaviour already at home with the own bookcase
somehow i dislike that, i think a Perfectionist shouldn't want to do that, this is a totally different sort of a trait, rather the Noncommittal
a perfectionist trait combined with a bookworm trait should produce a sim who is reading books autonomously from page one to the last in one go, that's what a perfectionst bookworm would like to do imo
6. i also dislike that i can "buy" any of the books at any of the bookshelves instead that there is a bookstore
since i own Get To Work so i wanted to make an actual bookstore where sims can buy books
this went not so smooth as i hoped, i didn't find any fitting bookstore at the Gallery & since i would like to keep Windenburg's library building, so i tried to convert it into a store & learned (again) that if the original booksheves remain in the store i will be selling bookshelves instead of books
i wish some day a sims game is as sophisticated to recognize that a bookstore is a place where sims buy books & that a store where sims can buy bookshelves is where nobody can read books magically taken out of those bookshelves
i also wish empty shelves would appear completely empty & would fill visually with books only if there actually were books there
in TS4 shelves appear always filled with books, they don't display as empty shelves at all
7. another plus is Christobel, since she's Neat, is actually putting the books away on her own & not just leaving all the books everywhere lying which she took out of the shelves on her own
& she washed her hands once on her own leaving even a conversation with another sim going on, i liked that very much !
a way more obsession actions & wishes is what the traits need in TS4
+ +
8. since Christobel went for the writing skill on her own, so i thought i should place her into the writer's career & let her learn writing books for real
the first step to accomplish that in a more realistic manner is to let Christobel buy all the neccesary books where she can learn the skill additionally to actually writing books
io to that i want to have an actually functioning bookstore in the worlds
the game on its own placed her while i was remodelling the library to a bookstore into the cooking career
since apparently the game just can't stand unemployed sims if they are on their own (making homeless lazy bums impossible to play rotationally btw), so i have already placed Christobel now into the writer's career
that was more or less all for the first day of testing
additional notes :
since Christobel became hungry & i own Dine Out so i placed one restaurant found in the Gallery, fitting the Windenburg feel
there were several frictions like the Gallery still unable to display only files with packs i own but instead displaying files which have packs i own included as well
the restaurant i placed has now missing wallcoverings because i don't own some packs used
eating in that restaurant went also not so well, somehow Christobel ended up eating only the dessert instead of the whole meal with appetizer, main course & then dessert, but at least it was served before Christobel started to moan about her being too hungry & it was served AT ALL
Post edited by Rukola_Schaaf on
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
I tend to forget the whims when I'm playing, they are too much short-terms to my liking, especially those related to other Sims just passing by your houses or to buying things.
I would love it to be expanded in an EP with a fourth slot which would work more like TS2 wants, proposing some more medium or long-term objectives, ideally related to a new memory system. So instead of having whims based on current emotions/current sims in proximity, it would be based on past experiences and aspirations of the Sim.
I can get on board with this, but I also vaguely recall being annoyed by temporary wishes in TS2 as well- Minor stuff but if memory serves me right, there were odd things popping up even then with the "rolls". I still miss wants and fears from TS2 though.
after 3 attempts i settled with a bookstore & made another of my previous townie sims an owner
she is also a Bookworm
Hedwig Hecklin, Bookworm, Romantic, Active & also Thrifty
the first thing she did after i told her to set the new rebate at the register was to grab one of the tablets & read a book on it, so that's a plus
but the next thing she did after i told her to open the store was to head towards the computer to play BlickBlock, that's a big minus, a bookworm shouldn't do that already as a second fun thing to do, maybe one in a hundred but not as a second already
the traits orientated actions & interactions seem rather random
so the question is, why give the player traits to choose for sims in the fitst place if in the game the sims don't act upon those traits as prefered ?
+ -
i bought her a book for her inventory to have always something to read
next of her actions was again to grab the tablet & read an ebook
but then she developed a "nicely decorated" +2 happy moodlet while still no happy moodlet because she'd read & is reading a book, because she is in a bookstore, because she is surrounded by books - nothing !
heck, not even any reaction because she is in a store, a Thrifter should get happy !!! because she is in an own store & she should surf their own store & enjoy it - but nothing !
the lack of reaction to their surroundings,
that's what makes those sims so oblivious & so uncaring for their own existence & its quality
that's what makes them appear less intelligent compared to the previous versions of this franchise, especially TS2 sims, which were even able to interactact directly with the player from time to time
+ - - -
then the interaction of the customers in a business - as always in TS4, yep, nothing changed since i last tested it months ago -
the very first "customers" headed straight towards the objects which have absolutely nothing in common with the shop they are in !!!
1. grab the tablet & surf the web on it
2. head to the computer & play a sports game
3. head to the computer & play blickblock
i remember, the customers in TS2 OFB, were 90% interested in actually interact with the shop they are in, actually surf the sold objects, there was a slight chance that a sim would do something else, like converse with other sims, or get into a fight with them, insult them, even indeed dance in the store, but that was just a slight chance & not as it is in TS4 a prominent behaviour, where the reason to open & run a business seems to be sort of disturbance between the leisure activities all those sims display constantly
as i was, as described, a sim day before with Christobel in the restaurant, the visit started with sims dancing to the music there & then later a sim which came in & collected all the dirty dishes from the tables, a townie sim, not a waiter !
4. the fourth "customer" headed up the stairs btw to find there a computer & troll the forums
5. another one was busy with his phone
6. one has kicked the garbage can & was entertaining herself by making more mess out of it
7. the next one saw that & started to play with the garbage pile after the previous was done with it
yeah, cause all that is what people do in a bookstore, right ?
8. & 9. two other sims headed straight upwards for the third comuter but it was already taken so they were just standing there doing nothing
literally not one sim displayed any customer interaction - great
at least there is no music in the shop, otherwise they would definately start dancing
- - - - - - - - -
here a screenshot of the activities of the "customers" after the described above
they read (background), playing sports game on the last remaining tablet after i removed all other "distractions" incl computers, kick again the trashcan, are conversing about whatever, even the owner is eager to talk about some business unrelated stuff, for hours, nothing gets sold, nobody is interested in buying anything - what a great business experience that is
the next sim day i changed to Christobel Daubney back io to bring her writing up & make her progress quicker in her career
after she slept & have eaten (for hours) i traveled with her to the newly built bookstore, Hedwig Hecklin wasn't there, the store was managed by 3 !!! clerks, which did (at first) nothing business related & were not in the least interested in selling anything to anybody (at first)
there is also no option to interact with the staff in business related manner at all
the bookstore is just a front, an extented bookcase at home, now i can grab a book from a display instead from a list of books - great
at least there was a business activity indeed in that bookstore after i bought the book & let Christobel analyse it
one clerk cleaned the shelves, another was actually busy selling a book to an actual customer & two other sims were standing in front of the shelves & were thinking about books - wow
after Christobel had analysed the first writing book she felt inspired (+2 for 4h), that she has reacted is a plus, but what comes out of become inspired that way while being a bookworm is not a plus at all, cause as before
1. she wished to buy a bar
2. plant something
3. buy an easel
4. buy an instrument
5. to look at a piece of art
6. talk to someone about dreams
the moodlets are totally unrelated to the traits
while the traits are depended on the moods & defined through moods & produce moods, which don't circle back towards the given traits but spread further towards all sorts of traits because the moods are leading in TS4, not the traits
it was always a problem of TS4 & it still is, unchanged
Christobel's sixth wish is probably the nearest it gets with those TS4 sims to how people being bookworms would behave, so i've let her talk about her dreams to a clerk
i had to give her the order a second time because the game made the first order just tracelessly disappear
how did Christobel, a YA sim, a bookworm, neat, perfectionist, thrifty & having read a book about the writing skill talk about her dreams ? she talked like a little child would do, a one eyed monster appeared as a speach bubble - that's gameplay consistency, right ?
i call that immersion breaking for sure
7. suggest a crazy plan
i go with that next
it would be a great idea if what she will be talking about would have to do with her current situation in her life & with her traits & with the relationships - then it would make a great interaction between the sim i am directing & me, the player, then i would play The Sims
but as TS4 plays still is some unrelated widely spread out interaction stuff, could be this or that, the sim doesn't matter & what i am playing neither
nothing matters in this game, the game plays itself in a useless manner
a castle, a ray gun, a plane - what have those symbols she's talking about to do with her life & her current situation ? - nothing !!!
wish fulfilled
8. plant something
9. buy an instrument
& so on & on & on ...
next thing that happened was, the shelves got dirty (after only few hours the store exited at all !), they got as dirty as it started affecting all of the customers, especially those neat
since Christobel is neat, so she became very uncomfortable, +3 uncomfortable moodlet !!!
but wait !
so you're standing with your sim middle in a business which is programmed to get dirty quick & there is not one single freaking option to tell it to the 3 !!! clerks that supposedly are working there ? & not even a neat sim has such an option !!! minus !!!
as always, as before
the only two options to play in TS4 with negative moodlets is
1. endure & relish your sim suffering a bad mood - what fun !
2. get out & try to calm your sim & get rid of that moodlet quick,
yeah i know, i can tell the sim to complain about problems, which causes a relationship reduction between those two sims - stunning gameplay & so rich, deep, immersive, diverse & so freakishly related to the situation at hand !
additionally
situations like this show not (as it was in the previous installments) in the immediate general info about a sim but only in the "emotional feedback" especially the corner picture & the facial & bodily expression
i think i'll wrap up Christobel the bookworm, let her live on her own (i hope, she doesn't get culled while i am testing the other traits with other sims) & move on
cause as i know, playing a writer in TS4 is so tremendously unsatisfactory, they are so desinterested in writing, so non-interactive towards what they are doing, writing the books is a means to an end of making money, i have to jump through hoops io to keep the books a sim has written - no, thank you, btdt
- - -
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
the next trait i will be testing is the Mean trait
i made a new sim, Bruno Schultheiss
he's Mean, Self-Assured, Noncommital & Shrewd from the Fabulously Wealthy aspiration
i've put him into the Criminal career though i didn't wanted him to have the Publlic Enemy aspiration
io to progress there he has to do some mischievous interactions, i think that goes well with the mean trait
1. first thing he wanted to become confident, the game suggested to work out to achieve that, so i've sent Bruno to the gym
on his own he had a lenghty friendly chat with Don Lotario & the trainer
also he watched on his own a TV film & became bored afterwards
next day before going to work he started to watch the very same film on his own, which would have made him bored again, not an ideal emotional state to work effectively
i cancelled that & told him to watch the comedy channel
-
2. on the first evening he also wanted to meet new sims at a lounge, so i've send him to a new lounge in Windenburg i found at the Gallery
after the first rude introduction, which i ordered him to do he immediately changed to the usual friendly chatter - nothing's changed there
-
3. he also headed on his own for reading a book, so that's not bookworms excusive behaviour as i have hoped with the first sim
he also washes his hands always after visiting the toilet despite not being neat & to shower qued afterwards
- -
4. one positive, since he said at least few mean things to other sims & probably one of the sims he met was also mean & have even insultet him once on his own, so he was quite pleased with that & developed a positive Mean moodlet
+
since the rather lacking performance of that sim on his first two days did depress me a little, so i paused the test for few days
yesterday i remembered that the clubs are working quite fine
5. so i made Bruno the head of a The Mean club, where mean interactions to everybody are welcome
i excluded those mean interactions towards club members, maybe i change it later
since Bruno needs some mischievous interactions to progress in his career, so i included lots of those to the club rules
but excluded also playing computer games, surfing the web & watching TV, because sims always end up doing exactly that even if they have enough other activities which would provide them with fun & entertainment
Bruno was hungry after work so i've send him to the restaurant for the first meeting of the club
it went so far rather well, though quite tame
nobody was insulting anybody but Bruno developed a positive moodlet from being together with other mean sims, so that's something
+
a side note : what i miss in general is just a nice way to say goodbye to any sim in the room, cause usually i just hit M & the sim goes off the current lot
a Goodbye & a Hello action initiated by the player
that would be nice
6. the next day after Bruno was eating he was visited by the gym trainer, who has been bombarding him with phone invitations every day since they've met
they talked a little, while i had to pause & cancel some actions since Bruno wanted to throw out the trash lying there from whatever action & wash the dishes, despite not being neat
then all of sudden he became Tense because of the Noncommital trait
i gave him some mischievous interactions to perform needed for his daily tasks
after that he autonomously started to yell at Marcus Flex, the still visiting gym trainer - that's a big plus !!!
- +
7. Bruno went to work after he became playful again from watching comedy channel, while Marcus remained in the house, threw out the trash, watched TV & did what those sims seem always to do, to play phone games while watching TV simultanously
8. after Bruno was back from work & had two days off i decided to test more intense the mean trait & went to meet with the club at the park
there were not many sims there, i've let Bruno again introduce himself rude to two sims, but the prevalent intent of Bruno was to have a friendly chat, despite being mean & despite a club meeting suggesting mean interactions
i've spent even the first 300 club points on mean actions boost
there were few autonomous mean actions though by Bruno, so those indeed were improved a little, but could really be way more along the traits still
although the only trait related club requirement is the Mean trait are the other club members extremely timid in being mean, they prefer to be mischievous
also the most prevalent autonomous action that came up over & over again in Bruno is to drink water, way more often than the mean actions
but it was nice that the other sims, the NPCs behaved diverse on their own, one of them tried to calm down or cheer up himself at a mirror still in park
- + - -
side note : the only "necessity object" Bruno developed a wish for is the dishwasher
sims would rather buy a dishwasher before they even notice not having a bed or toilet or fridge - priorities
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Re your bookworm* Sim, I've played writers/bookworms in ts2-4. I can't recall them autonomously engaging in literary pursuits except reading. My sims in ts3 would become obsessed with gaming as well. One thing I did like in Ts3 was the illustrous versus money making writer aspirations, and my writer/bookish sim would paint autonomously as she had the creative trait, but not write. I can't recall right now if there was a moodlet specific for writer/bookish sims if they were in a library in TS3.
I think I may create a bookstore as you did in ts4 tho and test it out . The only retail shop I've ever created was for my artsy sim and I didn't notice any peculiar behavior - sims checked out paintings, one sim would be by a computer but for the most part customers behaved as they should. The only downside was the grind of getting perks.
But you are right that in ts4 the moods are the primary motivator. I would be fine with this if only traits had a greater impact on how sims deal with those moods. For the inspiration moodlet it's a lot more straightforward, given the skills/talents connected with the trait. I tend to ignore whims but I'll pay special attention to whether my writer whips up a whim to write a book when inspired - it would make sense say if your sim has an outdoor trait, bookworm....steps outside and gets a whim to write a poem- specifically a poem. I don't know how complicated the coding has to be for a sim to "recognize" something so specific and have it influence their whims.
I'm also thinking that adult bookworms should have the option to write in a journal. I don't have parenthood yet - is the option to journal restricted to teens?
Emotions get a dedicated whim bubble.
I wish traits and aspirations would get a dedicated whim bubble as well. This would bring out a sims personality more you would have them wanting to do more things related to their personality instead of being obsessed with some object, or other whims.
It wouldn't do anything for more autonomous actions, but at least they would be thinking about it.
I don't think emotions should get their own whim bubble period.
The emotions system, by and large, is a failure. It's better to acknowledge this, cut their losses and reduce it to a more supportive role, rather than to insist this lackluster feature is truly the great groundbreaking feature they tried to claim it was at release.
i commented in that thread two times about how the traits themselves were not changed & improved
i was about to comment a third time as an answer to a comment by JimG72 <<<, who has criticized the negative posts about how traits are not working by describing in detail an own test with traits,
but then i thought i should maybe just do my own traits test instead & so i am doing it
........
i also didn't buy anything new for the game since Dine Out, so i am not testing the new Parenthood GP, this test has to do with how traits are working now & how they should work on their own as traits defining sims as what they ought to be - distinguishable personalities, distinguishable already because of their different traits alone
(1) That other thread was about the Parenthood game pack not making any difference with how sims act; (2) My comments and testing in that thread were about how the character value traits introduced in Parenthood interact with the other traits to cause a difference in how sims act; and (3) You don't own the Parenthood pack, so you have no access to the character value system, and aren't testing that. So thankfully you saved me some time and I could stop reading there....because you're comparing apples and oranges to what I was talking about and testing. But thanks for the shout out, lol.
I don't think emotions should get their own whim bubble period.
The emotions system, by and large, is a failure. It's better to acknowledge this, cut their losses and reduce it to a more supportive role, rather than to insist this lackluster feature is truly the great groundbreaking feature they tried to claim it was at release.
I 100% agree. The emotion system of The Sims 4 is an absolute overkill. It leaves no room for actual Sim personalities.
Comments
I mean it have an impact on the way I will play that Sims even if I keep the personnality panel closed, I can't ignore this trait, and I take it into consideration when I play.
For example my lazy Sim is my first retail owner, I'm trying to do a bakery. I discovered it's not the best combination at all because he is always standing up and whenever he has to clean the display stand, he is all tensed. At this point, the best I can do is sending him back to the kitchen because he is taking it out on all the customers. This Sim is starting to become a bit chubby too, maybe I will try to make it do some jogging, even if he won't like it.
At the opposite side of the spectrum, I can't tell you which of my Sims has the cheerful trait. I know some of them have it, but without opening the trait panel or checking in the moodlet tooltip, I don't notice it.
Well that's all there is left now that fullfilling whims has no direct impact on the Sims. I think it could have worked with the moodlets/emotion system : fears giving a sad moodlet for example or fullfilling bigger wants giving a happy moodlet.
they say that those sims are robotic or shallow
if a sim produces wishes regarding buying, if different sims produce same wishes although having different traits
that superficiality & exchangeability adds to the repeating animations, erratic moods & reactions
many people said also that traits in TS4 don't matter at all, it's an exaggeration but in general it's correct
& one part of the traits are wishes, so those are also perceived as exchangeable
well, i can't quite understand that the devs have released the game with the current state of the sims themselves
cause those sims damage the franchise at its core
even if we had toddlers, teens of a different definition & height, babies to carry around, terrain tools, open world, no loading screens, functioning story progression with an off checkbox & CASt, that game would be still shallow because of those one dimensioned sims without memory, unable to experience, live through, react & interact, poor in traits
but maybe then it would be clearer perceivable
sad but true
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
let's give Frederik & Annika another chance to live happily ever after ... married
i left off when Frederik was in flirty mood, Annika there & what he wished for was stuff related to his career, his traits & a sim he met briefly ages ago ... nothing romantic at all
now straight into the game ... regarding wishes
slot 1. could be better directed towards Annika but at least it's flirty related : Woohoo with Someone ! +++
slot 2. was something with reading (clicked further sooner than shot the first pic) - - -
slot 3. a wish regarding a breakthrough - - -
slot 2 with further clicking
1) reading - - -
2) improve object (nerd-trait) - - -
3) friends with that Rodrigo kid (got to know someone new) - - -
4) hug Annika (cause near a romantic relationship) +++
slot 3 with further clicking
1) breakthrough (science career) - - -
2) friends with that Rodrigo kid (got to know someone new) - - -
3) compliment Annika (cause near a romantic relationship) +++
feels like an improvement
in contrast to the previous 10 something clicks now only 3 to 4 clicks to get the sim to wish something related to the present situation he's in & to his present overall mood is definately an improvement
could be happenstance though or whatever other reason ... further testing is needed ...
f1. = fulfilled wish slot 1.
w1. woohoo with someone
w2. hug Annika
f3. compliment Annika
f3. be friendly with Annika
w3. talk with that Rodrigo kid
w1. practice pick up line in mirror (changed from woohoo although the Flirty went up to Very Flirty)
mood down again to Flirty
wishes slot 3. :
buy microscope (genius)
1x1 pool (lack of luxus at home)
higher level of chess skill
1x1 pool
criticise someone (snob)
talk with Rodrigo (got to know someone new)
buy microscope (genius)
prevent abductions (science career)
read somenting (nerd)
talk with Rodrigo
higher level of chess skill
1x1 pool
...
slot 2. :
f2. hug Annika (romantic relationship)
w2. surf the internet
...
romantic action : seduce
w3. get to know someone new (because cheerful)
action : invite to stay over night
"a pajama party, that's great" says Annika, in a flirt mood
w1. practice pick up line in mirror
w1. Hug Someone
f1. Hug Someone
w1. Kiss Someone
mood up to Very Flirty
w1. shower cold (cause flirty - that wish always breaks any further interactions in that direction, as if the sim doesn't want to be flirty anymore)
w1. Kiss Someone
(although very flirty, the other two slots are not correspondent to the overall mood & not to the present situation)
slot 2. : buy 1x1 pool
slot 3. : clone something
...
mood drops back to Flirty
f1. Kiss Someone
w1. higher level of charisma skill
w1. tell a dirty joke
f1. tell a dirty joke (which went badly, he's not so funny, but at least he's not embarrassed)
w1. higher level of charisma skill
autonomous action : dancing (cancelled by me)
w1. Flirt with Someone
f1. Flirt with Someone
w1. watch a romantic TV show
w2. criticise someone (snob)
w3. buy 1x1 pool (lack of luxus at home - that wish clutters slot 2 & 3 with a permanent appearance)
w2. buy microscope (genius)
w3. higher level of chess skill (nerd)
...
so back to square one again, nothing is improved, not even changed - all hopes shattered
i am giving up at that point with the tryout to play those sims
next stop Gamescom in august
hopes for a family EP at least at the end of 2015,
if it's not there, then i move on completely, move out for good from TS4, it's unbearable to play that game as TheSims
bye bye Frederik & Annika, i'm sorry that your life will probably remain unfinished, while it not even began
you are just too dumb to be true sims
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
but what remains then to be played ?
in the end would such a sim be nothing but an avatar without any distiction to any other sim, because the differences between the sims are marginal, more tense more flirty more focused more inspired more athletic than any other sim
the traits that show in action are all emotions related which sum up to 15 traits tops (angry, bored, confident, dazzed, embarrassed, energized, flirty, focused, happy, inspired, playful, sad, tense, uncomfortable & OK)
& distinct combinations are not possible because there is a big portion of random emotion included & every sim shows at some point all of those 15 trait/emotions
& therefore, have you played one TS4 sim then you have played them all
the only difference is skin deep
i see as the problem that those sims are programmed too wide in their preferences
somehow as if the makers couldn't decide
if the traits the player is choosing for the sims in CAS should matter
or if those sims should become personalities while being played first
currently we have neither the first nor the second clearly acting out but rather interferring with each other, which results in a muddled way of all sims tending towards the same personality with a slight tendency towards the traits & that aspirational trait, but because aspirations can be changed so easily every sim has the opportunity to become - everything - that's just boring to play, where are the differencies ? i don't see any, the sims move in the same way if they are not using those silly walks, they have very similiar voices, they all tell the same jokes with the same animation to the audience reacting in the very same way, they all use the computer, dance to stereo, watch TV - it's repeat
& after 10 months i just don't believe anymore in the potential of this game, potential is gone after 6 months, half a year in which either it is pushed clearly into the development direction or it will stay that way forever because now after nearly a year those people who like those sims as they are would be very unhappy if those sims suddenly would become very different
& those sims had to be very different to how they are now io to be personalities at all
so why change those sims, it would mean programming work, they seem not even to work on the very obvious gamebreaking things like the incest bug or options about culling, the personality of those sims is probably one of the smallest concerns of the devs
i suppose people who like those sims as they are now just like also their uniformity
so i don't think it will ever be better
especially because in the previous iterations the tweaks done to the sims themselves were rather minor changes, the overall character of the sims never changed much from day one of the initial release, they became wider with more options but not different to how they started out
if those rather uniform TS4 sims become even wider that won't change their uniformity
they look more realistic, are more elaborately done in the way they look
but their inner life has shriveled to nonexistence
as i started in september 2014 to make sims i imagined that i could make different sims, different in their look & different in their character
very distinguishable as personalities ... at the beginning there were only some grains of sand that i sensed that there are no personalities to distinguish, that sand has grown over the months to stones & now those are meantime a massive of montains, unsurmountable in my estimation
those sims can look very distinguishable but they are at their core the very same one sim with miniscule differences
~ ~ ~
since i was going to replay in that post in a thread JimG72 <<< with the line :
"do bookworms on their own prefer now a book to their phone to gain fun ?"
so i started my current test with a bookworm io to test the current scope of that trait
the first test subject is Christobel Daubney
she's Bookworm, Neat, Perfectionist
her starting aspiration was Mansion Baron with the accompanying trait Thrifty
it's a sim i made some time ago among others but never got to play her, she was just one of my background townies
i've let her now dwell in Oasis Springs, the house unfurnished
1. she didn't wish immediately for a bookcase, in fact she didn't wish for anything to buy despite there was no fridge, no toilet, no bed
& i have to say i always liked that sims wished for the basic things in their lives, it made them appear caring for themselves, for their ability to live
TS4 sims seem to be impartial about if they live or not, their only response to the absence of a surrounding & situation providing them with the basic necessities is at best moaning & being unhappy & moaning more & displaying their displeasure in an extremely passive way
but back to the bookworm
she was standing in front of the house & i was expecting her to take out her phone & start playing phone games but NOPE, she took her phone out but started surfing the web instead, which was really nice, way better than trying to fulfill a fun meter which is still quite full
so the first thing i bought her was a bookcase, despite her not wishing for it
i liked it very much that in TS2 & TS3 bookworms seemed almost obcessed by books & bookcases
that's maybe rather a bit unrealistic but it made sims' traits shine bright through
so i cancelled her interaction with the phone, placed the bookshelf & the first thing she then did was INDEED to head to the bookcase, take out on her own a book & read
a BIG PLUS that is for the trait
+
2. i furnished her house with the necessities
one of her wishes was to accomplish something in perfect quality & she did that later by making some meals, which made her learn the cooking skill, which then lead the game to give her by itself into the cooking career, which i didn't have at all in mind for her
3. i think i dislike that the Perfectionist trait is taking quite a lot of wishing space & overshadowing the Bookworm trait, because i have to make her stray away from being a bookworm io to make accomplish being a perfectionist
what i would like is that the traits of a sim mingle & mix & define that way a sim & not that some traits with more elaborate things to do are taking over the entire personality & supersede the other traits
or i wish that i am able to highlight one trait as the leading one for a personality of a sim, that would give me the opportunity to lead the sim's personality
4. because of the bookworm trait i thought i should take her to the library & see how she behaves there
i was expecting her to head to the computers, but NOPE, she went for a book instead
that is after i called her to enter the building first, since she was standing there at first in front of it doing nothing for some time
as i learned later, it's somehow a pause sims have when they land in front of a building when they're doing nothing, the game's probably still loading despite time running already
& a second nice surprise was, that the first book she took out of the shelves was one teaching her the writing skill
but that was probably a random choice, nothing coherent with any of Christobel's traits, a pity, it would be nice if sims would choose matching things to do & interact, matching their already existent personality content
+ +
5. Christobel was about to surf the bookcases & read here & there some of the books a little, she displayed that behaviour already at home with the own bookcase
somehow i dislike that, i think a Perfectionist shouldn't want to do that, this is a totally different sort of a trait, rather the Noncommittal
a perfectionist trait combined with a bookworm trait should produce a sim who is reading books autonomously from page one to the last in one go, that's what a perfectionst bookworm would like to do imo
6. i also dislike that i can "buy" any of the books at any of the bookshelves instead that there is a bookstore
since i own Get To Work so i wanted to make an actual bookstore where sims can buy books
this went not so smooth as i hoped, i didn't find any fitting bookstore at the Gallery & since i would like to keep Windenburg's library building, so i tried to convert it into a store & learned (again) that if the original booksheves remain in the store i will be selling bookshelves instead of books
i wish some day a sims game is as sophisticated to recognize that a bookstore is a place where sims buy books & that a store where sims can buy bookshelves is where nobody can read books magically taken out of those bookshelves
i also wish empty shelves would appear completely empty & would fill visually with books only if there actually were books there
in TS4 shelves appear always filled with books, they don't display as empty shelves at all
7. another plus is Christobel, since she's Neat, is actually putting the books away on her own & not just leaving all the books everywhere lying which she took out of the shelves on her own
& she washed her hands once on her own leaving even a conversation with another sim going on, i liked that very much !
a way more obsession actions & wishes is what the traits need in TS4
+ +
8. since Christobel went for the writing skill on her own, so i thought i should place her into the writer's career & let her learn writing books for real
the first step to accomplish that in a more realistic manner is to let Christobel buy all the neccesary books where she can learn the skill additionally to actually writing books
io to that i want to have an actually functioning bookstore in the worlds
the game on its own placed her while i was remodelling the library to a bookstore into the cooking career
since apparently the game just can't stand unemployed sims if they are on their own (making homeless lazy bums impossible to play rotationally btw), so i have already placed Christobel now into the writer's career
that was more or less all for the first day of testing
additional notes :
since Christobel became hungry & i own Dine Out so i placed one restaurant found in the Gallery, fitting the Windenburg feel
there were several frictions like the Gallery still unable to display only files with packs i own but instead displaying files which have packs i own included as well
the restaurant i placed has now missing wallcoverings because i don't own some packs used
eating in that restaurant went also not so well, somehow Christobel ended up eating only the dessert instead of the whole meal with appetizer, main course & then dessert, but at least it was served before Christobel started to moan about her being too hungry & it was served AT ALL
I can get on board with this, but I also vaguely recall being annoyed by temporary wishes in TS2 as well- Minor stuff but if memory serves me right, there were odd things popping up even then with the "rolls". I still miss wants and fears from TS2 though.
~ ~ ~
after 3 attempts i settled with a bookstore & made another of my previous townie sims an owner
she is also a Bookworm
Hedwig Hecklin, Bookworm, Romantic, Active & also Thrifty
the first thing she did after i told her to set the new rebate at the register was to grab one of the tablets & read a book on it, so that's a plus
but the next thing she did after i told her to open the store was to head towards the computer to play BlickBlock, that's a big minus, a bookworm shouldn't do that already as a second fun thing to do, maybe one in a hundred but not as a second already
the traits orientated actions & interactions seem rather random
so the question is, why give the player traits to choose for sims in the fitst place if in the game the sims don't act upon those traits as prefered ?
+ -
i bought her a book for her inventory to have always something to read
next of her actions was again to grab the tablet & read an ebook
but then she developed a "nicely decorated" +2 happy moodlet while still no happy moodlet because she'd read & is reading a book, because she is in a bookstore, because she is surrounded by books - nothing !
heck, not even any reaction because she is in a store, a Thrifter should get happy !!! because she is in an own store & she should surf their own store & enjoy it - but nothing !
the lack of reaction to their surroundings,
that's what makes those sims so oblivious & so uncaring for their own existence & its quality
that's what makes them appear less intelligent compared to the previous versions of this franchise, especially TS2 sims, which were even able to interactact directly with the player from time to time
+ - - -
then the interaction of the customers in a business - as always in TS4, yep, nothing changed since i last tested it months ago -
the very first "customers" headed straight towards the objects which have absolutely nothing in common with the shop they are in !!!
1. grab the tablet & surf the web on it
2. head to the computer & play a sports game
3. head to the computer & play blickblock
i remember, the customers in TS2 OFB, were 90% interested in actually interact with the shop they are in, actually surf the sold objects, there was a slight chance that a sim would do something else, like converse with other sims, or get into a fight with them, insult them, even indeed dance in the store, but that was just a slight chance & not as it is in TS4 a prominent behaviour, where the reason to open & run a business seems to be sort of disturbance between the leisure activities all those sims display constantly
as i was, as described, a sim day before with Christobel in the restaurant, the visit started with sims dancing to the music there & then later a sim which came in & collected all the dirty dishes from the tables, a townie sim, not a waiter !
4. the fourth "customer" headed up the stairs btw to find there a computer & troll the forums
5. another one was busy with his phone
6. one has kicked the garbage can & was entertaining herself by making more mess out of it
7. the next one saw that & started to play with the garbage pile after the previous was done with it
yeah, cause all that is what people do in a bookstore, right ?
8. & 9. two other sims headed straight upwards for the third comuter but it was already taken so they were just standing there doing nothing
literally not one sim displayed any customer interaction - great
at least there is no music in the shop, otherwise they would definately start dancing
- - - - - - - - -
here a screenshot of the activities of the "customers" after the described above
they read (background), playing sports game on the last remaining tablet after i removed all other "distractions" incl computers, kick again the trashcan, are conversing about whatever, even the owner is eager to talk about some business unrelated stuff, for hours, nothing gets sold, nobody is interested in buying anything - what a great business experience that is
the next sim day i changed to Christobel Daubney back io to bring her writing up & make her progress quicker in her career
after she slept & have eaten (for hours) i traveled with her to the newly built bookstore, Hedwig Hecklin wasn't there, the store was managed by 3 !!! clerks, which did (at first) nothing business related & were not in the least interested in selling anything to anybody (at first)
there is also no option to interact with the staff in business related manner at all
the bookstore is just a front, an extented bookcase at home, now i can grab a book from a display instead from a list of books - great
at least there was a business activity indeed in that bookstore after i bought the book & let Christobel analyse it
one clerk cleaned the shelves, another was actually busy selling a book to an actual customer & two other sims were standing in front of the shelves & were thinking about books - wow
after Christobel had analysed the first writing book she felt inspired (+2 for 4h), that she has reacted is a plus, but what comes out of become inspired that way while being a bookworm is not a plus at all, cause as before
1. she wished to buy a bar
2. plant something
3. buy an easel
4. buy an instrument
5. to look at a piece of art
6. talk to someone about dreams
the moodlets are totally unrelated to the traits
while the traits are depended on the moods & defined through moods & produce moods, which don't circle back towards the given traits but spread further towards all sorts of traits because the moods are leading in TS4, not the traits
it was always a problem of TS4 & it still is, unchanged
Christobel's sixth wish is probably the nearest it gets with those TS4 sims to how people being bookworms would behave, so i've let her talk about her dreams to a clerk
i had to give her the order a second time because the game made the first order just tracelessly disappear
how did Christobel, a YA sim, a bookworm, neat, perfectionist, thrifty & having read a book about the writing skill talk about her dreams ? she talked like a little child would do, a one eyed monster appeared as a speach bubble - that's gameplay consistency, right ?
i call that immersion breaking for sure
7. suggest a crazy plan
i go with that next
it would be a great idea if what she will be talking about would have to do with her current situation in her life & with her traits & with the relationships - then it would make a great interaction between the sim i am directing & me, the player, then i would play The Sims
but as TS4 plays still is some unrelated widely spread out interaction stuff, could be this or that, the sim doesn't matter & what i am playing neither
nothing matters in this game, the game plays itself in a useless manner
a castle, a ray gun, a plane - what have those symbols she's talking about to do with her life & her current situation ? - nothing !!!
wish fulfilled
8. plant something
9. buy an instrument
& so on & on & on ...
next thing that happened was, the shelves got dirty (after only few hours the store exited at all !), they got as dirty as it started affecting all of the customers, especially those neat
since Christobel is neat, so she became very uncomfortable, +3 uncomfortable moodlet !!!
but wait !
so you're standing with your sim middle in a business which is programmed to get dirty quick & there is not one single freaking option to tell it to the 3 !!! clerks that supposedly are working there ? & not even a neat sim has such an option !!! minus !!!
as always, as before
the only two options to play in TS4 with negative moodlets is
1. endure & relish your sim suffering a bad mood - what fun !
2. get out & try to calm your sim & get rid of that moodlet quick,
yeah i know, i can tell the sim to complain about problems, which causes a relationship reduction between those two sims - stunning gameplay & so rich, deep, immersive, diverse & so freakishly related to the situation at hand !
additionally
situations like this show not (as it was in the previous installments) in the immediate general info about a sim but only in the "emotional feedback" especially the corner picture & the facial & bodily expression
i think i'll wrap up Christobel the bookworm, let her live on her own (i hope, she doesn't get culled while i am testing the other traits with other sims) & move on
cause as i know, playing a writer in TS4 is so tremendously unsatisfactory, they are so desinterested in writing, so non-interactive towards what they are doing, writing the books is a means to an end of making money, i have to jump through hoops io to keep the books a sim has written - no, thank you, btdt
- - -
~ ~ ~
the next trait i will be testing is the Mean trait
i made a new sim, Bruno Schultheiss
he's Mean, Self-Assured, Noncommital & Shrewd from the Fabulously Wealthy aspiration
i've put him into the Criminal career though i didn't wanted him to have the Publlic Enemy aspiration
io to progress there he has to do some mischievous interactions, i think that goes well with the mean trait
1. first thing he wanted to become confident, the game suggested to work out to achieve that, so i've sent Bruno to the gym
on his own he had a lenghty friendly chat with Don Lotario & the trainer
also he watched on his own a TV film & became bored afterwards
next day before going to work he started to watch the very same film on his own, which would have made him bored again, not an ideal emotional state to work effectively
i cancelled that & told him to watch the comedy channel
-
2. on the first evening he also wanted to meet new sims at a lounge, so i've send him to a new lounge in Windenburg i found at the Gallery
after the first rude introduction, which i ordered him to do he immediately changed to the usual friendly chatter - nothing's changed there
-
3. he also headed on his own for reading a book, so that's not bookworms excusive behaviour as i have hoped with the first sim
he also washes his hands always after visiting the toilet despite not being neat & to shower qued afterwards
- -
4. one positive, since he said at least few mean things to other sims & probably one of the sims he met was also mean & have even insultet him once on his own, so he was quite pleased with that & developed a positive Mean moodlet
+
since the rather lacking performance of that sim on his first two days did depress me a little, so i paused the test for few days
yesterday i remembered that the clubs are working quite fine
5. so i made Bruno the head of a The Mean club, where mean interactions to everybody are welcome
i excluded those mean interactions towards club members, maybe i change it later
since Bruno needs some mischievous interactions to progress in his career, so i included lots of those to the club rules
but excluded also playing computer games, surfing the web & watching TV, because sims always end up doing exactly that even if they have enough other activities which would provide them with fun & entertainment
Bruno was hungry after work so i've send him to the restaurant for the first meeting of the club
it went so far rather well, though quite tame
nobody was insulting anybody but Bruno developed a positive moodlet from being together with other mean sims, so that's something
+
a side note : what i miss in general is just a nice way to say goodbye to any sim in the room, cause usually i just hit M & the sim goes off the current lot
a Goodbye & a Hello action initiated by the player
that would be nice
6. the next day after Bruno was eating he was visited by the gym trainer, who has been bombarding him with phone invitations every day since they've met
they talked a little, while i had to pause & cancel some actions since Bruno wanted to throw out the trash lying there from whatever action & wash the dishes, despite not being neat
then all of sudden he became Tense because of the Noncommital trait
i gave him some mischievous interactions to perform needed for his daily tasks
after that he autonomously started to yell at Marcus Flex, the still visiting gym trainer - that's a big plus !!!
- +
7. Bruno went to work after he became playful again from watching comedy channel, while Marcus remained in the house, threw out the trash, watched TV & did what those sims seem always to do, to play phone games while watching TV simultanously
8. after Bruno was back from work & had two days off i decided to test more intense the mean trait & went to meet with the club at the park
there were not many sims there, i've let Bruno again introduce himself rude to two sims, but the prevalent intent of Bruno was to have a friendly chat, despite being mean & despite a club meeting suggesting mean interactions
i've spent even the first 300 club points on mean actions boost
there were few autonomous mean actions though by Bruno, so those indeed were improved a little, but could really be way more along the traits still
although the only trait related club requirement is the Mean trait are the other club members extremely timid in being mean, they prefer to be mischievous
also the most prevalent autonomous action that came up over & over again in Bruno is to drink water, way more often than the mean actions
but it was nice that the other sims, the NPCs behaved diverse on their own, one of them tried to calm down or cheer up himself at a mirror still in park
- + - -
side note : the only "necessity object" Bruno developed a wish for is the dishwasher
sims would rather buy a dishwasher before they even notice not having a bed or toilet or fridge - priorities
I think I may create a bookstore as you did in ts4 tho and test it out . The only retail shop I've ever created was for my artsy sim and I didn't notice any peculiar behavior - sims checked out paintings, one sim would be by a computer but for the most part customers behaved as they should. The only downside was the grind of getting perks.
But you are right that in ts4 the moods are the primary motivator. I would be fine with this if only traits had a greater impact on how sims deal with those moods. For the inspiration moodlet it's a lot more straightforward, given the skills/talents connected with the trait. I tend to ignore whims but I'll pay special attention to whether my writer whips up a whim to write a book when inspired - it would make sense say if your sim has an outdoor trait, bookworm....steps outside and gets a whim to write a poem- specifically a poem. I don't know how complicated the coding has to be for a sim to "recognize" something so specific and have it influence their whims.
I'm also thinking that adult bookworms should have the option to write in a journal. I don't have parenthood yet - is the option to journal restricted to teens?
I wish traits and aspirations would get a dedicated whim bubble as well. This would bring out a sims personality more you would have them wanting to do more things related to their personality instead of being obsessed with some object, or other whims.
It wouldn't do anything for more autonomous actions, but at least they would be thinking about it.
The emotions system, by and large, is a failure. It's better to acknowledge this, cut their losses and reduce it to a more supportive role, rather than to insist this lackluster feature is truly the great groundbreaking feature they tried to claim it was at release.
(1) That other thread was about the Parenthood game pack not making any difference with how sims act; (2) My comments and testing in that thread were about how the character value traits introduced in Parenthood interact with the other traits to cause a difference in how sims act; and (3) You don't own the Parenthood pack, so you have no access to the character value system, and aren't testing that. So thankfully you saved me some time and I could stop reading there....because you're comparing apples and oranges to what I was talking about and testing. But thanks for the shout out, lol.
I 100% agree. The emotion system of The Sims 4 is an absolute overkill. It leaves no room for actual Sim personalities.