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Sims' Inner Life
Rukola_Schaaf
Posts: 3,065 Member
current test phase november 2017
previous test phase june 2017
after the Parenthood GP & the accompanying patch there was a thread made by I8PIKACHU about how it's equal if the sims get parented or not, how things learned within the adolescent phases don't matter at all after the sims grow up to YA & beyond
Parenthood -- where nothing really matters
i commented in that thread two times about how the traits themselves were not changed & improved
i was about to comment a third time as an answer to a comment by JimG72 <<<, who has criticized the negative posts about how traits are not working by describing in detail an own test with traits,
but then i thought i should maybe just do my own traits test instead & so i am doing it
here i will post the continuous results of that traits test
i didn't play the game for a long time now, & the last times i "played" it was actually doing testing if the game is playable for me in some way
so this will be another test of that sort
i also didn't buy anything new for the game since Dine Out, so i am not testing the new Parenthood GP, this test has to do with how traits are working now & how they should work on their own as traits defining sims as what they ought to be - distinguishable personalities, distinguishable already because of their different traits alone
& i didn't play toddlers at all since they were patched in
i didn't play them because i know their traits are way better & more interesting designed than the traits of all other ages & i wanted to spare me yet another negative experience with the shallowness of those usual traits
- - -
here's a link list to the current traits test within this thread :
* Christobel Daubney / part 1 <<<
* Christobel Daubney / part 2 <<<
- - -
i play TheSims since 2000 & though there were always some things i wanted included or improved i never had any real problems to accommodate to how to play the game in an enjoyable way in all 3 previous games - with TS4 it's very different
my playing style is diverse, i play autonomous sims, rotational with & without aging on, one sim, one family, family oriented sims with focus on their offsprings, career sims with focus on their promotion in job & of course trying out the contents of a new expansion
in previous games i played a sim between the wishes of that sim & the interactions which were enabled with the progress of that sim in relationship, job, skill ...
but now i have problems with TS4, especially regarding sim's wishes
i find the 3 slots for wishes insufficient
the moods of sims change more often than the wishes do
& wishes especially regarding buying a thing are the most dominant, which i find very troubling
currently i am playing a sim who wishes again & again to buy a chess table although he has already one, i wonder how many chess tables would be sufficient ? & it's not really enjoyable to play that because TS4 sims don't react to those new objects in their home bought for them & often after the thing they wished for is bought, they not even care to interact with it - that makes them nothing but spoiled, i don't like to play such sims
also most troubling were the wishes & objectives for family oriented sims who wished to buy children related stuff instead to wish for interactions including family members, their children, the main events in life of those family members
as i played them, i have always forgotten of a birthday & was never reminded by a sim in his/her wishes although family oriented, the result was then always sims pouting & sad because their family members have forgotten their birthday
i not even got as far as to make a birthday party because, why bother if those sims not even care for their family members although pretending in theory to be family loving sims ?
currently i play a sim, who is not family oriented & not romantically tending, he is a genius, snob & cheerful
after a time in which he got promoted often in his career i have tried to lead him gently towards a family, cause i want to play that family as a lineage
a family includes of course a partner, so i tried to nudge him towards several females in his surroundings, so he could choose on his own which one of them he wishes to spend his life with
yesterday he indeed wished for being engaged to one of those sims - i was very happy that this was his own wish, because i had played several sims with different traits & family constellations & they couldn't care less for what was going on with the other sims in their families, so i don't want to play that sort of a family anymore - that's not a family but only loosely acquainted roommates
so now he got engaged, the center of his dream is there at his house, he is happy to be engaged but ... not one thought of his, not one wish includes HER, there is not even a notice in that engagement happy moodlet that SHE is included, it just says that he is happy to be engaged - seems like it just doesn't matter to whom
& now i have not one wish, where he would like to marry her, not even a wish to interact with her in any way
but i have the options to marry her straight away or to marry her in a ceremony, party included & of course to woohoo & try for baby
one of his current wishes is to rave about interests to SOMEONE - & that's my problem, there seem to be so few wishes included in TS4 that are targetted to a certain sim - i am happy that at least that sim wished actually to be engaged to that particular sim & not just to be engaged, but that is really very rare occurance
& i wonder if there is a difference in TS4 between sims that move towards a particular sim on their own & sims that are assigned to do it by me, the player without any doing by the sim, be it wishes or autonomous actions
so currently i could marry him off BUT without that he wishes for a marriage, for a wedding party, for being married to that particular sim
& i dislike that very much
i think that if there are the options about marriage towards a particular sim, then the active sim has to realise that the relationship with that other sim is a very special one & then the wishes have to be regarding that other sim & not just whatever sim
i find that detachment, that indifference really very disheartening to play
i definately would prefer to have that sim wishing for interactions with a particular sim & not for some interactions with whatever sims
that is what makes the sims in this game in its current state so indifferent towards nearly everything, there is so little that is targetted towards certain sims & there are only so few wishes
it makes me feel while playing this game that those sims are most happy only dancing to stereo, watching TV, trolling forums & that's it
everything else seems not to be really enjoyable to those sims, they do not long to do anything else (besides of buying 1x1 pool
) - they can do it if i would direct them but it's then my doing, they are indifferent in doing it, spoiled at best if it benefits them, not grateful in any way, giving no feedback
the result is that i feel like i am playing with liveless puppets, not sims with their own mind & interest, although of course i play always with free will on
so, how are your experiences & thoughts regarding wishes of sims ?
does it matter to you if sims' autonomous actions, the options for interactions & their wishes are in harmony with each other ?
previous test phase june 2017
after the Parenthood GP & the accompanying patch there was a thread made by I8PIKACHU about how it's equal if the sims get parented or not, how things learned within the adolescent phases don't matter at all after the sims grow up to YA & beyond
Parenthood -- where nothing really matters
i commented in that thread two times about how the traits themselves were not changed & improved
i was about to comment a third time as an answer to a comment by JimG72 <<<, who has criticized the negative posts about how traits are not working by describing in detail an own test with traits,
but then i thought i should maybe just do my own traits test instead & so i am doing it
here i will post the continuous results of that traits test
i didn't play the game for a long time now, & the last times i "played" it was actually doing testing if the game is playable for me in some way
so this will be another test of that sort
i also didn't buy anything new for the game since Dine Out, so i am not testing the new Parenthood GP, this test has to do with how traits are working now & how they should work on their own as traits defining sims as what they ought to be - distinguishable personalities, distinguishable already because of their different traits alone
& i didn't play toddlers at all since they were patched in
i didn't play them because i know their traits are way better & more interesting designed than the traits of all other ages & i wanted to spare me yet another negative experience with the shallowness of those usual traits
- - -
here's a link list to the current traits test within this thread :
* Christobel Daubney / part 1 <<<
* Christobel Daubney / part 2 <<<
- - -
i play TheSims since 2000 & though there were always some things i wanted included or improved i never had any real problems to accommodate to how to play the game in an enjoyable way in all 3 previous games - with TS4 it's very different
my playing style is diverse, i play autonomous sims, rotational with & without aging on, one sim, one family, family oriented sims with focus on their offsprings, career sims with focus on their promotion in job & of course trying out the contents of a new expansion
in previous games i played a sim between the wishes of that sim & the interactions which were enabled with the progress of that sim in relationship, job, skill ...
but now i have problems with TS4, especially regarding sim's wishes
i find the 3 slots for wishes insufficient
the moods of sims change more often than the wishes do
& wishes especially regarding buying a thing are the most dominant, which i find very troubling
currently i am playing a sim who wishes again & again to buy a chess table although he has already one, i wonder how many chess tables would be sufficient ? & it's not really enjoyable to play that because TS4 sims don't react to those new objects in their home bought for them & often after the thing they wished for is bought, they not even care to interact with it - that makes them nothing but spoiled, i don't like to play such sims
also most troubling were the wishes & objectives for family oriented sims who wished to buy children related stuff instead to wish for interactions including family members, their children, the main events in life of those family members
as i played them, i have always forgotten of a birthday & was never reminded by a sim in his/her wishes although family oriented, the result was then always sims pouting & sad because their family members have forgotten their birthday
i not even got as far as to make a birthday party because, why bother if those sims not even care for their family members although pretending in theory to be family loving sims ?
currently i play a sim, who is not family oriented & not romantically tending, he is a genius, snob & cheerful
after a time in which he got promoted often in his career i have tried to lead him gently towards a family, cause i want to play that family as a lineage
a family includes of course a partner, so i tried to nudge him towards several females in his surroundings, so he could choose on his own which one of them he wishes to spend his life with
yesterday he indeed wished for being engaged to one of those sims - i was very happy that this was his own wish, because i had played several sims with different traits & family constellations & they couldn't care less for what was going on with the other sims in their families, so i don't want to play that sort of a family anymore - that's not a family but only loosely acquainted roommates
so now he got engaged, the center of his dream is there at his house, he is happy to be engaged but ... not one thought of his, not one wish includes HER, there is not even a notice in that engagement happy moodlet that SHE is included, it just says that he is happy to be engaged - seems like it just doesn't matter to whom
& now i have not one wish, where he would like to marry her, not even a wish to interact with her in any way
but i have the options to marry her straight away or to marry her in a ceremony, party included & of course to woohoo & try for baby
one of his current wishes is to rave about interests to SOMEONE - & that's my problem, there seem to be so few wishes included in TS4 that are targetted to a certain sim - i am happy that at least that sim wished actually to be engaged to that particular sim & not just to be engaged, but that is really very rare occurance
& i wonder if there is a difference in TS4 between sims that move towards a particular sim on their own & sims that are assigned to do it by me, the player without any doing by the sim, be it wishes or autonomous actions
so currently i could marry him off BUT without that he wishes for a marriage, for a wedding party, for being married to that particular sim
& i dislike that very much
i think that if there are the options about marriage towards a particular sim, then the active sim has to realise that the relationship with that other sim is a very special one & then the wishes have to be regarding that other sim & not just whatever sim
i find that detachment, that indifference really very disheartening to play
i definately would prefer to have that sim wishing for interactions with a particular sim & not for some interactions with whatever sims
that is what makes the sims in this game in its current state so indifferent towards nearly everything, there is so little that is targetted towards certain sims & there are only so few wishes
it makes me feel while playing this game that those sims are most happy only dancing to stereo, watching TV, trolling forums & that's it
everything else seems not to be really enjoyable to those sims, they do not long to do anything else (besides of buying 1x1 pool
) - they can do it if i would direct them but it's then my doing, they are indifferent in doing it, spoiled at best if it benefits them, not grateful in any way, giving no feedbackthe result is that i feel like i am playing with liveless puppets, not sims with their own mind & interest, although of course i play always with free will on
so, how are your experiences & thoughts regarding wishes of sims ?
does it matter to you if sims' autonomous actions, the options for interactions & their wishes are in harmony with each other ?
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
Post edited by Rukola_Schaaf on
12
Comments
that is one of the reasons many things don't make sense and many peoples get easy angered, because you don't see any connection between the sims, they don't have proper memorys they are tied to emotions and some linear things sims in sims 4 have much less freedom on they will and less "brains", to have decisions.
he produced finally the wish i was waiting for - To Marry Annika -
after that i went to prepare my game for the upcomming change - the foundation of a family with a prospect of children
i exchanged every sim currently living in the neighborhoods & placed then a chapel where the sims could marry
after i've finished it i went back to the sim & ... all wishes were reset, the wish, so hard to get to marry her was gone ...
now the entire work with the wishes has to be done again
here how it looks currently
although very flirty the sim wishes
a) to improve an object
b) to chat with Rodrigo (a sim he met very briefly ages ago)
c) to flirt with SOMEONE (that means if some other sims would be there he could flirt with those sims as well & his wish would be fulfilled)
d) & the current autonomous interaction is talking to Annika
& what's even more frustrating
the number of points he would get for the wedding, 100 points
he can get also if he
- improves 2 objects (2x50)
- flirts with 4 random sims (4x25)
- talks to 10 sims (10x10)
that's surely unbalanced
after clicking again & again & again through more of those completely irrelevant wishes of his i had enough
& i closed the game ...
i don't want to ignore what's there
i want to be motivated by a game to do things
i want to use what's there, to make things with it & enjoy it
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
This is a big issue for me, too! There doesn't exist a memory system. For me screenshots do not compensate for actual memories. Now additionally to the unspecific wishes, it gets even harder to connect to them, because you cannot see and thus related to their story. How was their childhood? How was teenage life? who was their first kiss? The birth of their first child. The promotion they worked so hard for. Everything is missing, and it sometimes feels, like it never happened. If you would get them a new job, divorce them and abandon their children, they would just feel a little sad for like 24hrs and there wouldn't be any sad memories left over. I bet they wouldn't even wish for getting back together or anything related to that. Just wishing for an at least 1x1 pool....
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
& the wishes to do something with a specific sim are extremely rare
the sims wished in the previous games to flirt with someone too, but only if they didn't knew anyone whom they wanted to be involved with or if they were an overall flirty type
& sometimes i have the feeling that TS4 sims wish something very specific but they are unable to formulate that wish because the wishes they have been given by the devs are mostly very general, regarding an unspecific someone
those sims look accomplished but are actually underneath coarsely underdeveloped
yes, it's just horrible to play it
Now... what might have been interesting is if they made the Aliens be the Schizophrenic Psychopaths and gave our human Sims their humanness back. That, I could get into.
As it stands now, I don't really feel like TS4 is an actual game.
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
I would love it to be expanded in an EP with a fourth slot which would work more like TS2 wants, proposing some more medium or long-term objectives, ideally related to a new memory system. So instead of having whims based on current emotions/current sims in proximity, it would be based on past experiences and aspirations of the Sim.
Quoted for 100 % support!
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
I always start with them watching the news on the TV, so if she automatically goes to watch TV its the news, unless she is energized then she watches sports. Guess it depends on your mood?
I put a cheap computer on the dining table (she is poor and just starting out) and she never goes to use it unless she needs to build up her social meter. To me it takes a while on the social skill with the computer so I will have her call someone to chat or if its too late at night, I have her send a few text.....that works too, LOL
I get the whim for the chess table too even though she has one. I just "x" out of any whim I don't want to fool with. Most the time I don't even pay attention to them. At least in my game, I notice the moods do not change every second like before, LOL
I forgot my Sim's Birthday one time and yep, she was so sad. So now I just have her bake a cake, invite someone over, and blow out the candles. I don't throw a party but if you have someone over, that will make them happy, LOL
I have them "elope" because I am just not one to mess with parties. I am not good at following goals, I prefer to do it my way as much as I can. LOL
My Sim's usually stay late at work, so there is no time for play (wow, I went from being a woohoo'r all the time to never letting my sim get any) ROFL
i have played several genius sims & they previously never wished for additional chesstables
i guess that wish is now bound to the lot the sim's on, they wish it always when not on the home lot, which is plum, cause the table is at home & since sims don't have memories, so they just don't know where they are & what they have
previously, before the last one or two patches they wished for playing chess not buying a chesstable
I think those can still be added with EP, at least I hope that's what they will do. On TS2 I remember the Sims themselves were more complex after all the EP than in the base game. I don't know how it went in TS3, maybe someone can tell about it.
I think the points I miss the most are :
- an attraction system, turns on/off
- memories
- wants/more medium or long term objectives that have an impact on Sims
I still see the effects of traits currently, but it's basically more a "on average, over a long period of time, this Sim will tend to do this more". If I spot a Sim washing the dishes, it's more likely to be the neat one, my family Sim is spending more time with the family, but overall it's rather subtle. The emotion trait are probably the easier to spot, but I'm not sure the random moodlet is the best way to go, sometimes it feel a bit too much random
Perhaps it might help if the sims not only were more likely to do things, but also LESS likely to do opposing things, in an attempt to create more balanced/impactful traits. Who a sim *isn't* can be just as important as who a sim *is*. (Correct me if I'm wrong, that's purely observational.)
i doubt that this would be enough
with the active trait you picked one of the few traits best defined in this game
the other being cook & genius
all other traits are either very wide defined or nearly not defined at all or purely decorational even
wide as eg creative sims although combined with a specific aspiration still wishing for the full scale of all creative things to do - painting, playing every instrument, cooking, gardening & patched in at some point also writing
but lacking regarding handiness, as if people who tinker on the workbench wouldn't be creative
& why there is the combination between gardening & creativity escapes me, to design a garden ok, but to spend time tending the garden is creative ? i suppose the devs just didn't know where to put wishes regarding gardening & ended up with creativity
if gardening is creative then why not fishing ? or colecting stuff ? or buying even ?
not well or nearly not defined at all as all traits regarding relationships & related to an inner emotional state like cheerful, gloomy, hot headed, self assured, perfectionist, ambitious, childish, snob, good, mean ...
purely decorational like outgoing, noncommital, loner, hates children, family oriented, evil, bro, slob, neat, materialistic, loves outdoors, lazy, insane, glutton, clumsy, childish, music lover, geek, foody, bookworm, art lover, romantic, goofball - those traits though coming with additional interactions & animations & even wishes don't help to form a personality at all, they sometimes boost moods & add here & there an additional animation available only with that trait but have no impact on life of that sim
even the romantic will behave, wish & is able to lead a life of any other kind, it doesn't define anything really if i compare that to what it could be or how it was defined in the previous games
in the previous games trait definitions were less detailed but clearly distinguishable, with TS4 the traits related actions & moods are muddled to a mush of fleeting moods all over the place with only few exceptions
i wrote in those forums about those matters meantime several times
& at this point i give that game until the end of this year to overhaul those traits from the ground up,
if that doesn't happen then i will move on for good because this game offers that way nothing exceptional anymore if compared to other games genres like RPGs or strategy or management related games
TheSims were up till now very special, it gave me the opportunity to design people in detail with a complete set of external & internal being
with TS4 the external was stripped down & limited & the internal as discribed here just unsatisfactory lacking in every respect
all that makes the sims themselves gone - it's a shame
in most cases very vague defined traits, with too few specific things to do regarding those traits
with too few slots for wishes to appear
with too few wishes in general
& in many cases too unspecific wishes
& additional the infinitesimal amount of wishes & interactions to wish for regarding relationships in general makes them especially superficial
combined then with all the wishes to buy something
& then the fleeting & changing moods
the result are superficial, spoiled, moody sims with a hang towards insanity
before developing those sims with emotions the devs didn't bother to consult any expert about the subject
they wanted to make sims more realistic, more detailed, feeling more alive to the player, yet they thought they can still just refrain to their gut feeling of a game designer & programmer
it's arrogance & it shows in the results
& yes, sims learn & repeat what they have done previously, but the number & depth of possible personalities are limited in the current state of this game & the lenght to get a sim to behave like it should be is too subtle & takes too long, even people in real life learn quicker because they learn differently than it is programmed in TS4
there had to be an entire EP with tons of new interactions, traits, wishes & an overhaul of that emotional system
but i am not very optimistic that TS4 will ever get anything like that
I agree to that. I think, it was a bad decision to get rid of fears, cause this would also add to more defined personalities. To me it's another feature they got rid off, in order for the game to be less rude/cruel. The thing is, that this kind of stuff made the game interesting and diverse. You can't have light without darkness.
True!
Additionally, wishes and behavior do not or in a too less extent relate to the picked trait. Traits do most of the time only influence the mood, the sim will get more frequently than others. And then this mood will (sometimes) influence the behaviour and wishes. The problem is, that ANY sim will get into ANY mood at a certain point, and thus they all start to feel the same.
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.
So true, I think the creative trait feels underwhelming because of this. With so many skills (3 instruments, 3 cooking, painting, photography, writing), so many careers (musician/cooking/painting/writing) and several aspirations related to creativity, a vast proportion of my Sims are in an inspired mood, even without the creative trait.
But I guess it also depends greatly on the way we play. Genius/Focused for example also has a lot of things related to it, 5 skills and a bunch of career and still I tend to notice the genius trait of my Sims more. Maybe it's a more complicated mood to get, maybe I'm less actively looking for it. I don't know honestly.
Some of the traits that did work well for me :
- Lazy : my lazy Sims oversleep when I'm not looking, and is all stressed when he need to clean things.
- Romantic : my romantic Sim is a single mother with her child and playing a single romantic mother is rather complicated, she's becoming tense rather often.
- Hot-headed : angry mood is not an emotion I have often so I know which of my Sims are the hot-headed ones. I think the random moodlet work rather well for this one.
- Childlish : my childlish are always playing with the children toys, can't miss it. I don't like the "buy a toy" whim though.
The traits that sort of work but could be more interesting :
- Active : it works well but there's not that much to do when you're active at the moment (quite the opposite of creative/focused in fact), I think it will be better once we'll have sports
The ones that didn't :
- Cheerful : there's already an overaboundance of happy moodlets everywhere, one more doesn't impact my gameplay much
I don't have a problem of moody Sims though, I'm not using any emotional aura and my Sims are rather consistent in their emotions. I think the positive ones are far too strong compared to the negative ones though. And more precisely it's far too easy to stack a bunch of +1 happy that overrides any negative emotions. I think the more trivial happy moodlets should just boost positive emotions but not overrides negative ones. Ideally I would like small day-to-day problems to boost negative emotions too, like a broken sink should make an angry Sim even more angry. I don't think considering being in a good mood/bad mood as emotions works well.
The whims don't interest me because all they do is give point to buy things, and most of those feel like disguised cheat codes to me and just drown the personality trait in the UI. That's odd because that wasn't a problem for me in TS2 with the unlockable bonus (the 4x4 mini tree), maybe because those bonus were more aspiration specific or seemed more subtle.
& all 3 are better executed with the focused mood
what do you mean by "work well" ?
how do you play eg with the tense mood ?
athletic, energized & bro are going very well together
it means the sim has to spend nearly all the time jogging & at the gym
i like to play such a sim, it's very simple because the autonomous actions & the wishes are aligned & if i go out with that sim to that place where he is most happy, the gym his life is filled with satisfaction
the athletic mood & trait are compared to the other well equipped, it sure could be much more, but i would be already happy if there would be more to do in this game besides of gym, kitchen & laboratory
eg the painter, the only thing he can do is stand at the easel & paint, then go to the museum & look at paintings
to add more possibilities to do at the very same easel is not enhancing the life of a painter
how about being inspired while jogging, small sketches inbetween, folding easels, more expressive talks with other sims, vernissages ...
a very interesting thought, because it never before crossed my mind that they can be played that mechanistic
in general i don't play wishes as tasks towards rewards,
but that is probably indeed the only thought the devs produced regarding those wishes, which indeed deminishes them to pure functionality
for me are those sims' wishes expression of personality of a sim
if eg the sim doesn't produce a wish regarding a relationship with another sim, how do i distinguish that sim from another one ?
if the only distinction between sims is their mere look, then TheSims doesn't need any code regarding inner life of sims, then a mere meshes & poses & daily tasks program is sufficient without any care for traits & aspirations & such ... & maybe that's what actually happened to TS4
wishes are for me thoughts of sims
i wouldn't use wishes of sims only to gain those points towards rewards
in TS3 & in TS2 fulfilled wishes not only play towards rewards but they improve the happiness & confidence of the sim & in result that sim is more capable, more successfull in every action
that is what true confidence would look like if there would be a better connection between traits, wishes & emotions in TS4
but the emotion confident overrides every other emotion, eg flirty or focused or inspired & disables the sim instead to enable to succeed
confident disrupts instead to enable
in RL there is no character, no trait that is confidence, confidence is a state related to other things, other traits, to experience
the confident trait in TS4 works rather like haughtiness & the damper is the option to discover for the sim something bad about him in the mirror - vain haughtiness
i think even that the idea to gain with fulfilled wishes points which collected form additional traits has simplified TheSims to a quick mobile game
those fulfilled wishes had to work towards memory & shaping the characted further, but there is no memory & the character is very lacking, that way there is no other game to play than a quick mobile but it reduces this game to a competition with all those thousands of other quick mobile games out there with points & microtransaction to speed it even further
I agree very much on what you said there. And I wonder, that this topic is not discussed more on the forums. Obviously only few simmers are playing wishes, like we do. I also have the impression that those wishes now are only a little minigame to gain points to spend them on something. I dislike it. I loved the way that those fulfilled wishes contributed to the overall state of happiness, in the same way as fears lessend that happiness level. And that this level of happiness affected how they would develop in live. In the end in influenced their life time span. Now it's very unimportant what's happening to the sim, cause after the short emotion buff, they won't remember that anything happened at all. It's so sad. They are empty shells. They have less emotion than ever...
You find my sims in the gallery tagged with #SimsFairy.