I think there is an easy solution to this issue. They could add a customizable field in CAS for whatever pronouns the sim will use. So, it will be up to the player to define the pronouns, whatever they feel is suitable, and the game will simply use those pronouns instead of the regular she/him or whatever.
That’s …. literally what we’re asking for. I don’t think you could find a single person who advocates changing all pronouns to they/them. I certainly wouldn’t like that, and I am very happy about the announcement of this update.
There are 21,661 people who have signed this petition which says, “ If we could have the option to choose pronouns for our sim or for the team to switch older game texts to be gender neutral like current pack dialoged it would be impactful for those of us who are still unable to truly feel represented in the game by having our sims selves misgendered.“
If the team gives the option for all sims to choose their pronouns and uses them consistently, great. That should make everyone happy. I don’t like the alternative at all, which misgenders binary sims as they/them.
Yes, but the sims team talked about pronouns, not making everything in the game gender neutral. I honestly don't know where that idea came from.
But making the text gender neutral has been their way of handling it so far.
I quoted and linked to a huge petition that literally calls for this as an option.
People have every reason to express specifically how they would and wouldn’t like this handled in a thread like this.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
You need proof that they’ve gone gender neutral in several texts from things added in EPs even though many of us are saying they have? I don’t have time to keep track of all the ways they’ve done this.
You need proof that they’ve gone gender neutral in several texts from things added in EPs even though many of us are saying they have? I don’t have time to keep track of all the ways they’ve done this.
I'll keep an eye out in my game and post any that I come across.
You need proof that they’ve gone gender neutral in several texts from things added in EPs even though many of us are saying they have? I don’t have time to keep track of all the ways they’ve done this.
I'll keep an eye out in my game and post any that I come across.
Sounds good.
If you don’t take our word for it, look at that petition again.
“Recent packs have been adding more gender neutral language or choosing to call a sim by their name instead of he/she, but the gendered language still lingers.”
Only it isn’t just using sims by their name, there are gender neutral pronouns used, as well.
“If we could have the option to choose pronouns for our sim or for the team to switch older game texts to be gender neutral like current pack dialoged [sic]...”
Thanks, I signed the petition. I'll start paying closer attention to the pop ups. 🙂
Well, I guess we know where you stand. 🙂
I don’t really see the point in a petition anymore since the team has said over and over that they’re “researching” this and getting ready to implement a change. But if there was a petition that didn’t include going fully gender neutral as an option, I’d sign that one.
Having the option to choose pronouns for our sims (and not just mix and match "male" and "female" options) is really important to me because as it is now, I can't really make myself in the game or even Sims like me as it makes me dysphoric. There is not really a way to be nonbinary in the game without the use of mods unless you are okay with he or she pronouns.
Also, I saw some people saying going through and replacing all the language would be really hard, but I don't think it would be. I mean there are already modders who do it for free. It may be harder to do it in every single language, but I think it would be a great opportunity for the Sims team to work with nonbinary simmers who speak lots of different languages, because we exist all over the world.
Replacing dialogue in the game (if they will do it) is not difficult to do, there are tutorials online on how you can open the files and change the text in the game, I did it once myself for fun and changed the text for some moods in the game.
The problem is that if you would want the game to refer to your sim as nonbinary in the game then you would need to rewrite the messages (because a lot of messages are referring to your sim as M0 and F0 (him and her)) and there is so much text in the game that it would require a huge amount of time and people who have to consult with language experts (because several of the 18 supported languages have dialogue that would need to be completely rewritten). This is probably why no modder have done a pronouns mod.
I also don't know if the game has M0 and F0 coded in other events too, like tuning. So it is possible, but it sounds like it could quickly turn into a huge effort.
You're right. Just the tuning for random names (for both CAS and random in-game spawns) would be its own kind of nightmare because there are separate lists for male and female... in each language currently supported. Makes me shudder to think of how much more is in the background like that, stuff that we the players might never normally see. I'm sure the team will do the best they can within the limits of an aging game, but I sure don't envy them the job in making it happen.
The random names and townies brings up an interesting side point: To be more inclusive of non-binary people, perhaps some small portion of the townies should go by they/them pronouns. Or at least a couple of pre-made Sims for future packs or expansions, just as there has been deliberate introduction of same-sex Sim couples in the game.
I'm sure this inclusion would anger some portion of players and bring on an onslaught of hate against non-binary folks (I've read a fair amount of it in comments on a third-party website regarding this subject, which I won't link to). But it would be an accurate representation of how people are actually living in the world today.
Edit: Changed "gay and lesbian Sim couples" to "same-sex Sim couples" as all Sims in this version are potentially bisexual (which is not realistic, but convenient for players).
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.
@dearie_blossom thank you so much for posting that. Forgive me for being obtuse and not noticing it in my game.
they said its a bug so I believe them otherwise wouldn't it have been easier to tell the truth its not like there is
anything we can do about it anyway so what good would a lie do them.
it would just be sad if that were the case its a lie a child would tell.
> @logion said: > Replacing dialogue in the game (if they will do it) is not difficult to do, there are tutorials online on how you can open the files and change the text in the game, I did it once myself for fun and changed the text for some moods in the game. > > The problem is that if you would want the game to refer to your sim as nonbinary in the game then you would need to rewrite the messages (because a lot of messages are referring to your sim as M0 and F0 (him and her)) and there is so much text in the game that it would require a huge amount of time and people who have to consult with language experts (because several of the 18 supported languages have dialogue that would need to be completely rewritten). This is probably why no modder have done a pronouns mod. > > I also don't know if the game has M0 and F0 coded in other events too, like tuning. So it is possible, but it sounds like it could quickly turn into a huge effort.
Multiple modders have literally done a pronoun mod. I have a gender neutral language mod in my game and others exist that let you input specific pronouns.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
I'll be just as happy tomorrow as I am today if they don't remove he/she/him/her etc. Do what they want, fine by me, but I'm hoping gender neutral 'they' doesn't overtake the entire game and wipe out all he/she pronouns and this be an option for those of us who respect others wanting to remain he/she/him/her. You say the game doesn't distinguish with the genius if it's a he or she. Ok. But shouldn't it? For those of us who want it to pay respect to the gender? I think so. Right? It should have said he or she if that is who the player believes that Sim to be. Instead they just threw in a blanketed 'they'. That's not going to make anyone happy in the long run.
I'm a she. I am woman, hear me roar. I want to be referred to as she, so I think Maxis should at least acknowledge women or anyone else who wants to be called she or he. Gender Neutral excludes she if they continue to just use they. And
'they' excludes many other people who go by 78 different personal pronouns, how is that fair to those who identify as 78 different pronouns? It's not. I just hope she and he remain if that is who the person playing the game wants them and believes them to be. Because otherwise it discriminates against women to remove she when that is who the woman wants to be called. Long and hard battles to have freedom to be a woman and respected just as much as anyone else. The removal of she would be a disgrace.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Multiple modders have literally done a pronoun mod. I have a gender neutral language mod in my game and others exist that let you input specific pronouns.
Question is, are all these mods configured for localization? Do they support languages other than English? Does the gender neutral mod override gendered text?
Maxis will need to work very closely with language experts in order to get this feature right. It can't just work for English, German, Dutch, Finnish and Polish and not for the rest of the supported languages. I believe some languages don't even use gender, perhaps others don't use gender neutrality. But look, don't ever listen to me. I have no clue about language. I can barely speak English.
It's a tricky beast regardless and goodness knows how the devs will implement this feature. For example, how are gender neutral and neo pronouns used in those other countries if they're utilized at all?
In any case I do hope everyone will get what he/she/they/ it etc. prefer(s).
You know that's dehumanizing to the Nth degree, right? And strongly deprecated on that count? If not, you do, now. Please, don't.
I'm not so sure about that @Sindocat I saw someone who wanted to be called bug another that wanted to be called dragon
and one that wanted to be called tree so I'm sure somewhere there is someone that wants to be called it.
I don't know why maybe there a big fan of the movie or something but I'm sure it is out there some where.
I'm not so sure about that @Sindocat I saw someone who wanted to be called bug another that wanted to be called dragon
and one that wanted to be called tree so I'm sure somewhere there is someone that wants to be called it.
I don't know why maybe there a big fan of the movie or something but I'm sure it is out there some where.
Maybe a baby?
"Every child matters. If we fail our children, we are bound to fail our present, our future, faith, cultures, and civilizations as well."
You know that's dehumanizing to the Nth degree, right? And strongly deprecated on that count? If not, you do, now. Please, don't.
Oh come on, of course I’d never call a human “it” unless that human asks me to do so. I can imagine there’s folks who want to be called “It”? Or evil clowns…🎈
Personally I only use “he / she / they” unless I’m told otherwise.
In this case I left the option there, my bad that I omitted all the other pronouns, although I simply don’t know what they are and how many exist.
Referring to someone as “SHE” who prefers “VE” could just be as insensitive as referring to someone as “IT” who’d like to be referred to as “E” and vice versa. And I only just learned that “VE” and “E” are -in fact- pronouns. I don’t even know what the difference is, but that doesn’t mean I will not respect a person’s wishes.
I don’t mean to offend anyone (good luck with that Captain Butt Brain) and I still hope that everybody gets what… everybody wants. 😁
@CAPTAIN_NXR7 And here was me assuming you were maybe talking about fantasy sims, maybe even some entity similar to the Mass Effect universe's Hanar. For anyone who may not know, they're gender-neutral (possibly entirely genderless) creatures whose self-referring pronouns are translated into spoken galactic languages as "this one" and "it."
FYI: Just because you can see my signature, don't assume that I can see yours.
Because I can't; I keep all sigs turned off.
I'm not so sure about that @Sindocat I saw someone who wanted to be called bug another that wanted to be called dragon
and one that wanted to be called tree so I'm sure somewhere there is someone that wants to be called it.
I don't know why maybe there a big fan of the movie or something but I'm sure it is out there some where.
I'm not so sure about that @Sindocat I saw someone who wanted to be called bug another that wanted to be called dragon
and one that wanted to be called tree so I'm sure somewhere there is someone that wants to be called it.
I don't know why maybe there a big fan of the movie or something but I'm sure it is out there some where.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
They have been removing gendered pronouns for a while now. I don‘t understand why you‘re acting obtuse. There are posts about this issue on Answers HQ. The Sim Gurus act like this was a mistake but funny how this issue only popped up when they started jumping on the pronouns bandwagon.
Comments
No. They haven't. You're exaggerating again. That one example someone was able to come up with was a reference to a trait. Not gender.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/988368/why-wasnt-there-a-mention-about-this-pronoun-changes/p2
You should remember as you started the thread.
Izzy had a Eureka Moment! Being a Genius, this gave them a boost to one of their more practiced skills.
The game doesn't distinguish whether the genius is he/him or she/her so they used them/their in this instance. It wasn't a nod to pronoun correctness.
I quoted and linked to a huge petition that literally calls for this as an option.
People have every reason to express specifically how they would and wouldn’t like this handled in a thread like this.
I'll keep an eye out in my game and post any that I come across.
If you don’t take our word for it, look at that petition again.
“Recent packs have been adding more gender neutral language or choosing to call a sim by their name instead of he/she, but the gendered language still lingers.”
Only it isn’t just using sims by their name, there are gender neutral pronouns used, as well.
“If we could have the option to choose pronouns for our sim or for the team to switch older game texts to be gender neutral like current pack dialoged [sic]...”
https://www.change.org/p/ea-games-pronoun-options-for-trans-and-non-binary-sims-in-the-sims-4
I don’t really see the point in a petition anymore since the team has said over and over that they’re “researching” this and getting ready to implement a change. But if there was a petition that didn’t include going fully gender neutral as an option, I’d sign that one.
The random names and townies brings up an interesting side point: To be more inclusive of non-binary people, perhaps some small portion of the townies should go by they/them pronouns. Or at least a couple of pre-made Sims for future packs or expansions, just as there has been deliberate introduction of same-sex Sim couples in the game.
I'm sure this inclusion would anger some portion of players and bring on an onslaught of hate against non-binary folks (I've read a fair amount of it in comments on a third-party website regarding this subject, which I won't link to). But it would be an accurate representation of how people are actually living in the world today.
Edit: Changed "gay and lesbian Sim couples" to "same-sex Sim couples" as all Sims in this version are potentially bisexual (which is not realistic, but convenient for players).
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Bug-Reports/Sims-being-given-wrong-pronouns-in-new-pop-ups/td-p/10379101
@dearie_blossom thank you so much for posting that. Forgive me for being obtuse and not noticing it in my game.
they said its a bug so I believe them otherwise wouldn't it have been easier to tell the truth its not like there is
anything we can do about it anyway so what good would a lie do them.
it would just be sad if that were the case its a lie a child would tell.
> Replacing dialogue in the game (if they will do it) is not difficult to do, there are tutorials online on how you can open the files and change the text in the game, I did it once myself for fun and changed the text for some moods in the game.
>
> The problem is that if you would want the game to refer to your sim as nonbinary in the game then you would need to rewrite the messages (because a lot of messages are referring to your sim as M0 and F0 (him and her)) and there is so much text in the game that it would require a huge amount of time and people who have to consult with language experts (because several of the 18 supported languages have dialogue that would need to be completely rewritten). This is probably why no modder have done a pronouns mod.
>
> I also don't know if the game has M0 and F0 coded in other events too, like tuning. So it is possible, but it sounds like it could quickly turn into a huge effort.
Multiple modders have literally done a pronoun mod. I have a gender neutral language mod in my game and others exist that let you input specific pronouns.
I'll be just as happy tomorrow as I am today if they don't remove he/she/him/her etc. Do what they want, fine by me, but I'm hoping gender neutral 'they' doesn't overtake the entire game and wipe out all he/she pronouns and this be an option for those of us who respect others wanting to remain he/she/him/her. You say the game doesn't distinguish with the genius if it's a he or she. Ok. But shouldn't it? For those of us who want it to pay respect to the gender? I think so. Right? It should have said he or she if that is who the player believes that Sim to be. Instead they just threw in a blanketed 'they'. That's not going to make anyone happy in the long run.
I'm a she. I am woman, hear me roar. I want to be referred to as she, so I think Maxis should at least acknowledge women or anyone else who wants to be called she or he. Gender Neutral excludes she if they continue to just use they. And
'they' excludes many other people who go by 78 different personal pronouns, how is that fair to those who identify as 78 different pronouns? It's not. I just hope she and he remain if that is who the person playing the game wants them and believes them to be. Because otherwise it discriminates against women to remove she when that is who the woman wants to be called. Long and hard battles to have freedom to be a woman and respected just as much as anyone else. The removal of she would be a disgrace.
Question is, are all these mods configured for localization? Do they support languages other than English? Does the gender neutral mod override gendered text?
Maxis will need to work very closely with language experts in order to get this feature right. It can't just work for English, German, Dutch, Finnish and Polish and not for the rest of the supported languages. I believe some languages don't even use gender, perhaps others don't use gender neutrality. But look, don't ever listen to me. I have no clue about language. I can barely speak English.
It's a tricky beast regardless and goodness knows how the devs will implement this feature. For example, how are gender neutral and neo pronouns used in those other countries if they're utilized at all?
In any case I do hope everyone will get what he/she/they/ it etc. prefer(s).
You know that's dehumanizing to the Nth degree, right? And strongly deprecated on that count? If not, you do, now. Please, don't.
I'm not so sure about that @Sindocat I saw someone who wanted to be called bug another that wanted to be called dragon
and one that wanted to be called tree so I'm sure somewhere there is someone that wants to be called it.
I don't know why maybe there a big fan of the movie or something but I'm sure it is out there some where.
Maybe a baby?
Oh come on, of course I’d never call a human “it” unless that human asks me to do so. I can imagine there’s folks who want to be called “It”? Or evil clowns…🎈
Personally I only use “he / she / they” unless I’m told otherwise.
In this case I left the option there, my bad that I omitted all the other pronouns, although I simply don’t know what they are and how many exist.
Referring to someone as “SHE” who prefers “VE” could just be as insensitive as referring to someone as “IT” who’d like to be referred to as “E” and vice versa. And I only just learned that “VE” and “E” are -in fact- pronouns. I don’t even know what the difference is, but that doesn’t mean I will not respect a person’s wishes.
I don’t mean to offend anyone (good luck with that Captain Butt Brain) and I still hope that everybody gets what… everybody wants. 😁
Because I can't; I keep all sigs turned off.
well that baby for sure.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/heres-why-some-lgbtq-youth-are-embracing-non-binary-pronoun-it-its-223331366.html
That's baby "What". "It" is his father. 😁
Then I guess I didn't exaggerate after all did I.
I'll let you know once I find more examples. 😄