This seems to be what every forum ends up talking about so let's vote. Do we want an open world maybe some rabbit holes or sims 2 style closed world with loading screens but we get to take sims to work or school?
I know it will probs be somewhere between the two but I dread the return to loading screens, except if it means taking our sims between worlds should ea grants us this joy...
If you are voting no rabbit holes could you please clarify if you mean you want literally everything open, say the stadium and the hospital for example, and how this might work. I'm struggling to picture it unless it's showtime-esque and just one room opens maybe. Then we could take sims to see a doctor in a consulting room or something. Or maybe we just want restaurants and clothes stores and I really like the idea of gas stations that I've read on various threads. Anyway, let me know.
I vote open world with no rabbit holes except school and work. I don't want to follow them to the school and watch them shuffle papers all day. Or kick around a ball all day in the athletic career. What I want are shopping centers and pubs and restaurants and spas and things like that.
While yes it is typically is used in RPG's it wouldn't be impossible for them to implement since it isn't like they are not using a previously built engine an instead have built a custom one for Sims 4. :
I'm pretty sure civ 5 does this and it is not an RPG,
Besides, considering open rabbit holes with open world is pretty much possible in Sims 3 (think how university tutorial classes work), with some creative thinking it could actually be implemented already in the Sims 3. I've actually put a bit of thought into how you could do it. However, it sims the Sims 3 engine is already bloated as so while it would work it would be very inefficient. But Sims 4 doesn't this excuse,
Actually, no, Civilization 5 doesn't do it that way. You're confusing Fog of War for not loading the entire world. Sims 3 uses the Fog of War effect in Island Paradise with its hidden islands; if you have the Collection Helper, you can see that, despite the fact that they are hidden, the game is still tracking them. Same thing if you use certain mods with Civ 5... you find out the game is still tracking the rest of the world, despite the fact you can't see it.
And it doesn't matter that they're not using a pre-built engine... they're using an existing engine type. You can tell from the gameplay demo, in how they moved and built houses for Sims 4. As long as they use a certain type, they are bound by the rules of that type... it does not matter if the engine itself is entirely new, as the basics of the engine type itself do not change. And trying to breed the basics of RPG engines into RTS engines simply results in a program that will never compile, so it's not even possible to hybridize the two.
So, no, they can't do this. Modern technology will not let them.
And, no, the University classes were not open rabbitholes; they used the fog of war effect. You could actually disable it with the right mods or cheats, and you could see the lot remained active and the game kept track of the inside even when you couldn't normally see it. And it cannot be implemented in Sims 3 because the Sims 3 engine won't allow it; the devs themselves have admitted the engine is at the end of what modifications it will allow with ITF. There's nothing more they can add without breaking the engine entirely, and what you suggest is drastically more than most expansion packs.
Computers are not magical machines that will do whatever you want them to do. They have rules and limits, and they have types of programs that have even more restrictive rules and limits. Ultimately, they're just very, very complex pocket calculators that can show you all kinds of neat things that mathematics allows... but that pocket calculator remains the essence of what they are at their core. And that is why they are so limited.
I actually know quite a bit about computers, I have an IT degree and work in IT consulting for a major international company. I realise there are many people who are not computer literate on the forums but please don't presume I don't know what I'm talking about.
And that 'fog or war' as you put it was sort of what I was talking about, I just wasn't very clear sorry. , Sure the game
tracks what it going on in non-visible areas but that is just simulated calculations and doesn't require a huge amount of processing power, . What tends to be most taxing on the computer is graphics rendering. In the Sims 3 already uses the fog of war system a little, you will notice the game only renders the outside of community lot (open in the traditional sense e.g library or the university building shell way) when your scrolling around the town and then you get a second or delay when your sims visits the lot as the computer renders the inside and it opens up.
Besides I hardly say it is not possible in the sims 3 when majority of rabbit holes have open version that have been later released:
– Career/school buildings -> Ambitions careers + university
– Bistro -> WA stores and the restaurant set in the store
- Spa -> Store spare set
– Grocery - WA store + Produce cart from Monta Vista
- Resort RH -> the luxury room (might have a different name)
- Cinema RH-> Store Cinema
I also know that when the developers say that something isn't possible that it normally means we do think it has a good return on investment and/or it is not possible with the current tight budget/schedule. Please note, I'm not complain about the developers I just know that is how the industry works, .
That being said I do 100% agree with you the SIms 3 engine isn't exactly optimised to run things smoothly, . But the brand new Sims 4 engine (I think it is called Smart Sim) made jus for the game should be able to. Considering we have had 4 years or so of improvements in Technology,
Edit: grammar,
Yep. 'Not possible' means 'we won't sell enough extra copies to make it worth our time', or, 'it wont' run fast enough on the low-end systems we're aiming for'.
You look at what Sims 3 had..FIVE years ago. Then you consider that 3D cards have probably tripled in polygon pushing power(I think I'm being conservative), and processors (general cpus) are, at a minimum, twice as powerful (again, that's conservative, according to 'Moores Law'-not real law, but it's been consistent over the decades), and you have to wonder what they are looking at when they take out features that Sims 3 had at launch. Could it be..phones? Wrist watches? Not saying the game sucks, I'm saying..I'd like to see the baseline computer stats they are shooting for.
I actually know quite a bit about computers, I have an IT degree and work in IT consulting for a major international company. I realise there are many people who are not computer literate on the forums but please don't presume I don't know what I'm talking about.
And that 'fog or war' as you put it was sort of what I was talking about, I just wasn't very clear sorry. , Sure the game
tracks what it going on in non-visible areas but that is just simulated calculations and doesn't require a huge amount of processing power, . What tends to be most taxing on the computer is graphics rendering. In the Sims 3 already uses the fog of war system a little, you will notice the game only renders the outside of community lot (open in the traditional sense e.g library or the university building shell way) when your scrolling around the town and then you get a second or delay when your sims visits the lot as the computer renders the inside and it opens up.
Besides I hardly say it is not possible in the sims 3 when majority of rabbit holes have open version that have been later released:
– Career/school buildings -> Ambitions careers + university
– Bistro -> WA stores and the restaurant set in the store
- Spa -> Store spare set
– Grocery - WA store + Produce cart from Monta Vista
- Resort RH -> the luxury room (might have a different name)
- Cinema RH-> Store Cinema
I also know that when the developers say that something isn't possible that it normally means we do think it has a good return on investment and/or it is not possible with the current tight budget/schedule. Please note, I'm not complain about the developers I just know that is how the industry works, .
That being said I do 100% agree with you the SIms 3 engine isn't exactly optimised to run things smoothly, . But the brand new Sims 4 engine (I think it is called Smart Sim) made jus for the game should be able to. Considering we have had 4 years or so of improvements in Technology,
Edit: grammar,
Ah. I apologize for the focus on basics. I am used to having to explain them.
Now, those open rabbitholes you mention... have you actually paid attention to them? The ones in World Adventures towns typically exist where there pretty much is no other community lot that isn't a tomb; I've placed them in the base neighborhood before and watched them sit empty. The Store open venue versions of rabbitholes suffer the same problem; in general, they tend to be ghost towns. And this isn't from lack of sims in my towns... I hit the places they actually hang out and can see a full crowd easily.
Also, note that University required special coding for their indoor classroom to be used... then consider that the University subhood is generally not that full of public places to hang out. It's generally like the WA worlds in that they show up because there's no other option.
And that's the problem with arguing that open venues are possible in Sims 3: Unless you mod, they don't work at all. And even then, they might not get people visiting anyway, meaning you pretty much have an empty building that serves no point. That's why open venues are actually not possible in Sims 3.
4 years in video game development isn't a long time; in fact, it's typically the amount of time low-end games are in development for. 5 years is typical of most video games, 6 years is long development. So, really, 4 years is not actually enough time to produce a new engine with a lot more capabilities; 5 years is usually barely enough time, and even then they have to cut a lot of corners. Video game development actually works more like movie production than programming, so a lot of time is used on concept art and laying out the features you hope for before you even begin working on the engine. Then the rest of the time is spent cutting the long list of features down to something you can get done within the time limit to produce a good game. In fact, really, movies and video games follow the same general sequence of steps in their creation. That's also why video game budgets these days tend to match movie budgets.
While yes it is typically is used in RPG's it wouldn't be impossible for them to implement since it isn't like they are not using a previously built engine an instead have built a custom one for Sims 4. :
I'm pretty sure civ 5 does this and it is not an RPG,
Besides, considering open rabbit holes with open world is pretty much possible in Sims 3 (think how university tutorial classes work), with some creative thinking it could actually be implemented already in the Sims 3. I've actually put a bit of thought into how you could do it. However, it sims the Sims 3 engine is already bloated as so while it would work it would be very inefficient. But Sims 4 doesn't this excuse,
Actually, no, Civilization 5 doesn't do it that way. You're confusing Fog of War for not loading the entire world. Sims 3 uses the Fog of War effect in Island Paradise with its hidden islands; if you have the Collection Helper, you can see that, despite the fact that they are hidden, the game is still tracking them. Same thing if you use certain mods with Civ 5... you find out the game is still tracking the rest of the world, despite the fact you can't see it.
And it doesn't matter that they're not using a pre-built engine... they're using an existing engine type. You can tell from the gameplay demo, in how they moved and built houses for Sims 4. As long as they use a certain type, they are bound by the rules of that type... it does not matter if the engine itself is entirely new, as the basics of the engine type itself do not change. And trying to breed the basics of RPG engines into RTS engines simply results in a program that will never compile, so it's not even possible to hybridize the two.
So, no, they can't do this. Modern technology will not let them.
And, no, the University classes were not open rabbitholes; they used the fog of war effect. You could actually disable it with the right mods or cheats, and you could see the lot remained active and the game kept track of the inside even when you couldn't normally see it. And it cannot be implemented in Sims 3 because the Sims 3 engine won't allow it; the devs themselves have admitted the engine is at the end of what modifications it will allow with ITF. There's nothing more they can add without breaking the engine entirely, and what you suggest is drastically more than most expansion packs.
Computers are not magical machines that will do whatever you want them to do. They have rules and limits, and they have types of programs that have even more restrictive rules and limits. Ultimately, they're just very, very complex pocket calculators that can show you all kinds of neat things that mathematics allows... but that pocket calculator remains the essence of what they are at their core. And that is why they are so limited.
I actually know quite a bit about computers, I have an IT degree and work in IT consulting for a major international company. I realise there are many people who are not computer literate on the forums but please don't presume I don't know what I'm talking about.
And that 'fog or war' as you put it was sort of what I was talking about, I just wasn't very clear sorry. , Sure the game
tracks what it going on in non-visible areas but that is just simulated calculations and doesn't require a huge amount of processing power, . What tends to be most taxing on the computer is graphics rendering. In the Sims 3 already uses the fog of war system a little, you will notice the game only renders the outside of community lot (open in the traditional sense e.g library or the university building shell way) when your scrolling around the town and then you get a second or delay when your sims visits the lot as the computer renders the inside and it opens up.
Besides I hardly say it is not possible in the sims 3 when majority of rabbit holes have open version that have been later released:
– Career/school buildings -> Ambitions careers + university
– Bistro -> WA stores and the restaurant set in the store
- Spa -> Store spare set
– Grocery - WA store + Produce cart from Monta Vista
- Resort RH -> the luxury room (might have a different name)
- Cinema RH-> Store Cinema
I also know that when the developers say that something isn't possible that it normally means we do think it has a good return on investment and/or it is not possible with the current tight budget/schedule. Please note, I'm not complain about the developers I just know that is how the industry works, .
That being said I do 100% agree with you the SIms 3 engine isn't exactly optimised to run things smoothly, . But the brand new Sims 4 engine (I think it is called Smart Sim) made jus for the game should be able to. Considering we have had 4 years or so of improvements in Technology,
Edit: grammar,
Yep. 'Not possible' means 'we won't sell enough extra copies to make it worth our time', or, 'it wont' run fast enough on the low-end systems we're aiming for'.
You look at what Sims 3 had..FIVE years ago. Then you consider that 3D cards have probably tripled in polygon pushing power(I think I'm being conservative), and processors (general cpus) are, at a minimum, twice as powerful (again, that's conservative, according to 'Moores Law'-not real law, but it's been consistent over the decades), and you have to wonder what they are looking at when they take out features that Sims 3 had at launch. Could it be..phones? Wrist watches? Not saying the game sucks, I'm saying..I'd like to see the baseline computer stats they are shooting for.
You're being overly optimistic on the polygon pushing power. The newest video cards on the market have, at most, doubled from where they were five years ago. Advancements in graphical power have actually slowed massively in the last decade; some of the newer video games on the market use graphics that you could see five years ago in their predecessor titles.
Processor capacity has also begun to slow; in fact, they are planning to adjust the time frame for Moore's Law down to twice what the previous estimate was at the end of this year.
So, pretty much, computer advancement is beginning to stagnate. As such, most video game developers are using specs today that are not that far off from what they used five years ago. Sims 4 will probably use what is currently medium-spec requirements for Sims 3 just due to massive graphical leap forward, meaning that none of the current players should have any trouble with base game.
To get an idea, my computer is a few years old. Its specs are still standard for what most video game setups on the market have.
After playing the game with an open world, I don't think I could play it any other way. I would hate for it to be like the Sims 2 again. I hope they will have sense enough to add an open world to the sims 4, other wise I will just play the sims 3.
I would prefer no rabbitholes at all, and careers that absolutely require them should be done away with and replaced with ones that don't, like the professions that came with Ambitions for example. I would also like to play sims in school but if that's not likely, another option could be replacing the rabbithole school with a home-schooling option or something like that.
Did you ever run a family with two adults having an Ambitions career? Cause I wouldn't know how to cope, I wouldn't enjoy it anyway. Having to style Sims with one and play private detective with the other. And on top of that helping two kids through their school day... Every single day of the week. Wouldn't it be a bore if playing Sims was about practically only that?
I like the idea of semi-rabbitholes by the way. And maybe add an option to choose if you want to play a particular lot as a rabbithole or not.
Edit: come to think of it, in University there are rabbithole classes and non-rabbithole classes. The first few times I liked the non-rabbithole classes. But after three days at university I know how that works, there is not much variety and as far as I'm concerned I like the rabbithole classes just as much. Press 3 and spending more time to have a ball with your student.
Thanks for all your interest in this thread so far. This is a feedback summary:
Open world is the priority:24
Zero rabbit holes is the priority:7
Want schools and work closed and evrything else open:9
Want half open-half rabbit hole venues:7
Want the world to be half open-half closed I.e.districts:8
So at the moment we seem to be leaning towards open world, if we have to choose to stop slow performance. Please keep voting and I'll try to post another summary if necessary.
Are there any new venues you might want that could be open?
Districts would be a nice way for them to compromise it! It solves some of the problems Sims 2 had while avoiding the problems with open world that Sims 3 demonstrated.
I certainly hope to see open world and venues like restaurant, shops, spa, cinema... should be open, but work places should remain closed (perhaps open stadium might be interesting).
RAFAEL VAN DER VAART - FOOTBALLER WITH THE BEST TECHNIQUE IN THE WORLD. RAFA YOU'RE THE BEST!
I actually know quite a bit about computers, I have an IT degree and work in IT consulting for a major international company. I realise there are many people who are not computer literate on the forums but please don't presume I don't know what I'm talking about.
And that 'fog or war' as you put it was sort of what I was talking about, I just wasn't very clear sorry. , Sure the game
tracks what it going on in non-visible areas but that is just simulated calculations and doesn't require a huge amount of processing power, . What tends to be most taxing on the computer is graphics rendering. In the Sims 3 already uses the fog of war system a little, you will notice the game only renders the outside of community lot (open in the traditional sense e.g library or the university building shell way) when your scrolling around the town and then you get a second or delay when your sims visits the lot as the computer renders the inside and it opens up.
Besides I hardly say it is not possible in the sims 3 when majority of rabbit holes have open version that have been later released:
– Career/school buildings -> Ambitions careers + university
– Bistro -> WA stores and the restaurant set in the store
- Spa -> Store spare set
– Grocery - WA store + Produce cart from Monta Vista
- Resort RH -> the luxury room (might have a different name)
- Cinema RH-> Store Cinema
I also know that when the developers say that something isn't possible that it normally means we do think it has a good return on investment and/or it is not possible with the current tight budget/schedule. Please note, I'm not complain about the developers I just know that is how the industry works, .
That being said I do 100% agree with you the SIms 3 engine isn't exactly optimised to run things smoothly, . But the brand new Sims 4 engine (I think it is called Smart Sim) made jus for the game should be able to. Considering we have had 4 years or so of improvements in Technology,
Edit: grammar,
Ah. I apologize for the focus on basics. I am used to having to explain them.
Now, those open rabbitholes you mention... have you actually paid attention to them? The ones in World Adventures towns typically exist where there pretty much is no other community lot that isn't a tomb; I've placed them in the base neighborhood before and watched them sit empty. The Store open venue versions of rabbitholes suffer the same problem; in general, they tend to be ghost towns. And this isn't from lack of sims in my towns... I hit the places they actually hang out and can see a full crowd easily.
Also, note that University required special coding for their indoor classroom to be used... then consider that the University subhood is generally not that full of public places to hang out. It's generally like the WA worlds in that they show up because there's no other option.
And that's the problem with arguing that open venues are possible in Sims 3: Unless you mod, they don't work at all. And even then, they might not get people visiting anyway, meaning you pretty much have an empty building that serves no point. That's why open venues are actually not possible in Sims 3.
4 years in video game development isn't a long time; in fact, it's typically the amount of time low-end games are in development for. 5 years is typical of most video games, 6 years is long development. So, really, 4 years is not actually enough time to produce a new engine with a lot more capabilities; 5 years is usually barely enough time, and even then they have to cut a lot of corners. Video game development actually works more like movie production than programming, so a lot of time is used on concept art and laying out the features you hope for before you even begin working on the engine. Then the rest of the time is spent cutting the long list of features down to something you can get done within the time limit to produce a good game. In fact, really, movies and video games follow the same general sequence of steps in their creation. That's also why video game budgets these days tend to match movie budgets.
No problem,
& I'll agree with you empty lots are annoying on the SIms 3, but it is possible to put all those open lots in one town (as I have in my main town of edited Twinbrook) and have it work perfectly. With Ani_'s shop from inventory and ATS3 CC I even have placed numerous of other types of community lots in my town.
I find the trick to stoping empty lots is putting a lot of extra sims in your town. In my town I have about 7 tiny 10x10 houses each full of 8 sims (set them to some sort of skill point career) that I use as "townies" and therefore my community lots are not empty because the game has a large number of available sims to draw from at any time of the day.
I also agree with you about the tight Sims 4 production schedule (and probably budget too, this is EA after all) and things being cut. That is how we lost CASt and don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the open world and/or open community lots but I would be disappointed because it is possible for them to do it and by the 4th expansion in the series I kinda expect more.
I still have a suspicion that there won't be an open neighborhood. It's just a gut feeling that won't go away. The pictures shown so far look like sections of neighborhoods with fake backdrops, but that could just be temporary.
The early marketing survey mentions backdrops:
World Creation Tool – With the world creation tool you can change the terrain, place environmental objects, and create a custom backdrop for your Sims’ neighborhood.
The survey also mentions sections of neighborhoods. This could have been for the multi-player concept, but could still be a legacy of what they have to work with.
Personalized Neighborhoods – Each section of a neighborhood is yours to personalize through shared content or Maxis creations that you place yourself.
There could be nothing to it, but it's giving me bad vibes.
I still have a suspicion that there won't be an open neighborhood. It's just a gut feeling that won't go away. The pictures shown so far look like sections of neighborhoods with fake backdrops, but that could just be temporary.
The early marketing survey mentions backdrops:
World Creation Tool – With the world creation tool you can change the terrain, place environmental objects, and create a custom backdrop for your Sims’ neighborhood.
The survey also mentions sections of neighborhoods. This could have been for the multi-player concept, but could still be a legacy of what they have to work with.
Personalized Neighborhoods – Each section of a neighborhood is yours to personalize through shared content or Maxis creations that you place yourself.
There could be nothing to it, but it's giving me bad vibes.
I don't 'trust' this picture for instance. That town looks like a decor. If I'm wrong it will be beautiful by the way.
I vote open world/rabbit hole, with a 'load rabbit hole' option, wherein you 'can', if you want, visit a rabbit hole, and then it loads a separate lot. But the visit would be optional, via menu option when you click on the rabbit hole.
A mix of both. Workplaces and schools can remain rabbitholes. Shops and restaurants should remain open.
However, processing power could be a problem... so maybe they could do semi-open shops and restaurants.
Here's an idea I had; shops and restaurants act like rabbitholes when your Sim isn't there. Sims that work there just go in and disappear, as do Sims who go shopping or eating there. But once you direct your Sim(s) to go there, it opens up to a functioning venue.
....
I agree with the above /\
But I can also see where the 2 below simmers are coming from:
I'm sorry, but if I absolutely, positively have to go choose, I would go with close world no rabbit holes especially if we get to see them at school and work. I just really hated those darn rabbit holes, maybe a little bit more than the average simmer. I want to see my sims out at dinner and make them toast and flirt with each other over the table, and watch them try on clothes and interact with the clerk. I missed the little things like actually watching them go grocery shopping. I mean, I liked the idea of an open world and if we could have both, that would be wonderful, but I just really despised those rabbit holes. :x
I feel the same way. I would love more then anything to have open restaurants again like in the Sims 2 not Sims 3 (like actual hosts, waiters and chefs). And grocery stores, clothing store and things like that.
Edit: also I wouldn't mind if it was closed if that meant the lots would actually be full of other Sims. I am tired of empty lots.
I guess if I had to choose I would say an open world with some open rabbit holes. I really like Callum's idea though, of having them closed or open depending on whether your sim works at the rabbithole or if they want to visit it.
The open rabbit holes I would like to have would be:
- The Spa
- A clothing/ book store
- The Cinema
- Restaurants
- Gym
- Library
- Nightclubs & Bars
Where as I wouldn't mind if the following rabbit holes were closed:
- Work
-School
-Stadium
- Hospital
- City Halls
However if my preference would mean the open rabbit holes would be empty of sims, like it is now in the sims 3. I would rather have a closed world with no rabbit holes as long as it meant there would be a guarantee of sims in the rabbit hole alongside the sim I'm controlling as like Solstice401 I am really fed up of empty lots.
@astridentanja where did you get that pic from I haven't seen any other pics showing the UI interface?
I think I'd rather have an open world, to be honest. It's a feature I really love. I think certain rabbit holes (like the theater and for Pete's sake the diner and bistro) should be opened up in addition to an open world.
I vote open world/rabbit hole, with a 'load rabbit hole' option, wherein you 'can', if you want, visit a rabbit hole, and then it loads a separate lot. But the visit would be optional, via menu option when you click on the rabbit hole.
It would be nice to see less rabbit holes like when they go out to eat or something. But maybe like someone said that they can have partial rabbit holes in some places. Like you only see the actual dinging area instead of everything or maybe you can see a room in the hospital instead of the whole thing or if school is seen just the classroom no hallways or anything because it would be to big and cause lag.
I have to admit I would like to be able to see more of what my sims do like kids in class or something. But I wouldnt want to all the time. So maybe if there could be a way that things are rabbit holes unless you choose you want the theature or school to be open. Like you could direct a sim to go to the movies and their would be options like a rabit hole and you are busy with something else you dont want to watch them you dont have to. But then maybe all your sims are at the park and you really want to see what your sim at the movies is doing so if there could be a way to see them watching a movie when you want to that would be neat. Or most times you dont want to deal with school so maybe just use the options. But maybe one day you really want to be able to see your kid do classwork and make friends with classmates by interacting with them. Then agian maybe just keep those places as rabbit holes but a home school option can be available as well and working from home instead.
Id be ok with most rabbit holes if its better for the game and runs easier but the ones I really wish could be not rabbit holes would be diners and stores/books/grocieries/spas. And I would choose to keep rabbit holes over loading screens any day. But it would still be neat if less rabbit holes were there or for those places you could have partial scenes or options to veiw into these places that are rabbit holes in ts3.
Comments
I vote open world.
^THIS!^
You look at what Sims 3 had..FIVE years ago. Then you consider that 3D cards have probably tripled in polygon pushing power(I think I'm being conservative), and processors (general cpus) are, at a minimum, twice as powerful (again, that's conservative, according to 'Moores Law'-not real law, but it's been consistent over the decades), and you have to wonder what they are looking at when they take out features that Sims 3 had at launch. Could it be..phones? Wrist watches? Not saying the game sucks, I'm saying..I'd like to see the baseline computer stats they are shooting for.
Ah. I apologize for the focus on basics. I am used to having to explain them.
Now, those open rabbitholes you mention... have you actually paid attention to them? The ones in World Adventures towns typically exist where there pretty much is no other community lot that isn't a tomb; I've placed them in the base neighborhood before and watched them sit empty. The Store open venue versions of rabbitholes suffer the same problem; in general, they tend to be ghost towns. And this isn't from lack of sims in my towns... I hit the places they actually hang out and can see a full crowd easily.
Also, note that University required special coding for their indoor classroom to be used... then consider that the University subhood is generally not that full of public places to hang out. It's generally like the WA worlds in that they show up because there's no other option.
And that's the problem with arguing that open venues are possible in Sims 3: Unless you mod, they don't work at all. And even then, they might not get people visiting anyway, meaning you pretty much have an empty building that serves no point. That's why open venues are actually not possible in Sims 3.
4 years in video game development isn't a long time; in fact, it's typically the amount of time low-end games are in development for. 5 years is typical of most video games, 6 years is long development. So, really, 4 years is not actually enough time to produce a new engine with a lot more capabilities; 5 years is usually barely enough time, and even then they have to cut a lot of corners. Video game development actually works more like movie production than programming, so a lot of time is used on concept art and laying out the features you hope for before you even begin working on the engine. Then the rest of the time is spent cutting the long list of features down to something you can get done within the time limit to produce a good game. In fact, really, movies and video games follow the same general sequence of steps in their creation. That's also why video game budgets these days tend to match movie budgets.
You're being overly optimistic on the polygon pushing power. The newest video cards on the market have, at most, doubled from where they were five years ago. Advancements in graphical power have actually slowed massively in the last decade; some of the newer video games on the market use graphics that you could see five years ago in their predecessor titles.
Processor capacity has also begun to slow; in fact, they are planning to adjust the time frame for Moore's Law down to twice what the previous estimate was at the end of this year.
So, pretty much, computer advancement is beginning to stagnate. As such, most video game developers are using specs today that are not that far off from what they used five years ago. Sims 4 will probably use what is currently medium-spec requirements for Sims 3 just due to massive graphical leap forward, meaning that none of the current players should have any trouble with base game.
To get an idea, my computer is a few years old. Its specs are still standard for what most video game setups on the market have.
I like the idea of semi-rabbitholes by the way. And maybe add an option to choose if you want to play a particular lot as a rabbithole or not.
Edit: come to think of it, in University there are rabbithole classes and non-rabbithole classes. The first few times I liked the non-rabbithole classes. But after three days at university I know how that works, there is not much variety and as far as I'm concerned I like the rabbithole classes just as much. Press 3 and spending more time to have a ball with your student.
Thanks for all your interest in this thread so far. This is a feedback summary:
Open world is the priority:24
Zero rabbit holes is the priority:7
Want schools and work closed and evrything else open:9
Want half open-half rabbit hole venues:7
Want the world to be half open-half closed I.e.districts:8
So at the moment we seem to be leaning towards open world, if we have to choose to stop slow performance. Please keep voting and I'll try to post another summary if necessary.
Are there any new venues you might want that could be open?
This!
No problem,
& I'll agree with you empty lots are annoying on the SIms 3, but it is possible to put all those open lots in one town (as I have in my main town of edited Twinbrook) and have it work perfectly. With Ani_'s shop from inventory and ATS3 CC I even have placed numerous of other types of community lots in my town.
I find the trick to stoping empty lots is putting a lot of extra sims in your town. In my town I have about 7 tiny 10x10 houses each full of 8 sims (set them to some sort of skill point career) that I use as "townies" and therefore my community lots are not empty because the game has a large number of available sims to draw from at any time of the day.
I also agree with you about the tight Sims 4 production schedule (and probably budget too, this is EA after all) and things being cut. That is how we lost CASt and don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the open world and/or open community lots but I would be disappointed because it is possible for them to do it and by the 4th expansion in the series I kinda expect more.
The early marketing survey mentions backdrops:
The survey also mentions sections of neighborhoods. This could have been for the multi-player concept, but could still be a legacy of what they have to work with.
There could be nothing to it, but it's giving me bad vibes.
I agree with the above /\
But I can also see where the 2 below simmers are coming from:
I guess if I had to choose I would say an open world with some open rabbit holes. I really like Callum's idea though, of having them closed or open depending on whether your sim works at the rabbithole or if they want to visit it.
The open rabbit holes I would like to have would be:
- The Spa
- A clothing/ book store
- The Cinema
- Restaurants
- Gym
- Library
- Nightclubs & Bars
Where as I wouldn't mind if the following rabbit holes were closed:
- Work
-School
-Stadium
- Hospital
- City Halls
However if my preference would mean the open rabbit holes would be empty of sims, like it is now in the sims 3. I would rather have a closed world with no rabbit holes as long as it meant there would be a guarantee of sims in the rabbit hole alongside the sim I'm controlling as like Solstice401 I am really fed up of empty lots.
@astridentanja where did you get that pic from I haven't seen any other pics showing the UI interface?
This would be great!
It would be nice to see less rabbit holes like when they go out to eat or something. But maybe like someone said that they can have partial rabbit holes in some places. Like you only see the actual dinging area instead of everything or maybe you can see a room in the hospital instead of the whole thing or if school is seen just the classroom no hallways or anything because it would be to big and cause lag.
I have to admit I would like to be able to see more of what my sims do like kids in class or something. But I wouldnt want to all the time. So maybe if there could be a way that things are rabbit holes unless you choose you want the theature or school to be open. Like you could direct a sim to go to the movies and their would be options like a rabit hole and you are busy with something else you dont want to watch them you dont have to. But then maybe all your sims are at the park and you really want to see what your sim at the movies is doing so if there could be a way to see them watching a movie when you want to that would be neat. Or most times you dont want to deal with school so maybe just use the options. But maybe one day you really want to be able to see your kid do classwork and make friends with classmates by interacting with them. Then agian maybe just keep those places as rabbit holes but a home school option can be available as well and working from home instead.
Id be ok with most rabbit holes if its better for the game and runs easier but the ones I really wish could be not rabbit holes would be diners and stores/books/grocieries/spas. And I would choose to keep rabbit holes over loading screens any day. But it would still be neat if less rabbit holes were there or for those places you could have partial scenes or options to veiw into these places that are rabbit holes in ts3.
Im a simmer forever