The way that is supposed to work there would be more than just male or female. You could still have a sim be male or female but you would have the option to choose some degree of both male and female at the same time or choose to have no gender identity at all. The way the both option could work is the sim doesn't have a specified gender but leans towards one. Or a sim could be female but leans towards male but doesn't want to be labeled male. I that's how I understand it. It allows for that sim to represent a broad spectrum of gender expression instead of just the rigid either or, male or female definition.
But that's exactly the problem. "Removing binary entirely" definitely sounds like you could not have the game recognize a sim as simply male or female. Which would cause a lot of things that would need to be re-imagined. Mostly the attraction system. There would definitely need to be some way to set a sim's preferences to stop them from autonomously flirting with sims they aren't supposed to. (Say we want to play the Heckings. Say we don't mind one of them having an affair, but we do mind him flirting with a female-framed sim because we think he would not. But how do we tell the autonomy that?)
Also, of course, the random townies. I don't think they need an extra dose of random... you know? ;D
The way that is supposed to work there would be more than just male or female. You could still have a sim be male or female but you would have the option to choose some degree of both male and female at the same time or choose to have no gender identity at all. The way the both option could work is the sim doesn't have a specified gender but leans towards one. Or a sim could be female but leans towards male but doesn't want to be labeled male. I that's how I understand it. It allows for that sim to represent a broad spectrum of gender expression instead of just the rigid either or, male or female definition.
But that's exactly the problem. "Removing binary entirely" definitely sounds like you could not have the game recognize a sim as simply male or female. Which would cause a lot of things that would need to be re-imagined. Mostly the attraction system. There would definitely need to be some way to set a sim's preferences to stop them from autonomously flirting with sims they aren't supposed to. (Say we want to play the Heckings. Say we don't mind one of them having an affair, but we do mind him flirting with a female-framed sim because we think he would not. But how do we tell the autonomy that?)
Also, of course, the random townies. I don't think they need an extra dose of random... you know? ;D
The way I interpreted the phrase 'remove binary' was to remove the restriction to just male or female. I'm reading that based on the dictionary definition of binary, something consisting of two parts. I can't speak for the OP's thoughts, but that's how I read and interpret it, we'll still have the male and female options but more besides.
The way I interpreted the phrase 'remove binary' was to remove the restriction to just male or female. I'm reading that based on the dictionary definition of binary, something consisting of two parts. I can't speak for the OP's thoughts, but that's how I read and interpret it, we'll still have the male and female options but more besides.
I see... but then again, isn't there just about limitless number of options? They would have to come up with some way to decide which ones to add and which ones not to and someone would inevitably feel left out.
Unless... do we really need a button to determine a sim's gender at all? Do we really have to label our sims like that? What if the gender expression was left to the customization options, describing not what a sim is, but how what they are affects them. How it actually shows. Because what goes on in our sim's head is completely up to us and shouldn't be dictated by some UI anyway, right?
And how do I propose a gender label be removed entirely without making a hot mess out of the game mechanics? Easy. Just rename the main binary button "frame" and be done with the whole thing.
The way I interpreted the phrase 'remove binary' was to remove the restriction to just male or female. I'm reading that based on the dictionary definition of binary, something consisting of two parts. I can't speak for the OP's thoughts, but that's how I read and interpret it, we'll still have the male and female options but more besides.
I see... but then again, isn't there just about limitless number of options? They would have to come up with some way to decide which ones to add and which ones not to and someone would inevitably feel left out.
Unless... do we really need a button to determine a sim's gender at all? Do we really have to label our sims like that? What if the gender expression was left to the customization options, describing not what a sim is, but how what they are affects them. How it actually shows. Because what goes on in our sim's head is completely up to us and shouldn't be dictated by some UI anyway, right?
And how do I propose a gender label be removed entirely without making a hot mess out of the game mechanics? Easy. Just rename the main binary button "frame" and be done with the whole thing.
I like your suggestion about frames and it's something I and others have wanted for a long time. The feminine frame on a male sim now is half baked, a slender waist and loss of muscle mass. What about the male posture and muscle definition that never changes until you switch genders? We should be able to adjust those to our liking. And then there's the whole problem of male sims with female frames and no bust slider. That should be an option we can choose. We should be able to mix and match those things to create the sim we envisioned.
If we had those options and they added a third gender option, call it neither, and we would have what amounts to removing the binary.
The way that is supposed to work there would be more than just male or female. You could still have a sim be male or female but you would have the option to choose some degree of both male and female at the same time or choose to have no gender identity at all. The way the both option could work is the sim doesn't have a specified gender but leans towards one. Or a sim could be female but leans towards male but doesn't want to be labeled male. I that's how I understand it. It allows for that sim to represent a broad spectrum of gender expression instead of just the rigid either or, male or female definition.
But that's exactly the problem. "Removing binary entirely" definitely sounds like you could not have the game recognize a sim as simply male or female. Which would cause a lot of things that would need to be re-imagined. Mostly the attraction system. There would definitely need to be some way to set a sim's preferences to stop them from autonomously flirting with sims they aren't supposed to. (Say we want to play the Heckings. Say we don't mind one of them having an affair, but we do mind him flirting with a female-framed sim because we think he would not. But how do we tell the autonomy that?)
Also, of course, the random townies. I don't think they need an extra dose of random... you know? ;D
You would still be able to make masculine and feminine sims. Going forward would just mean there will be more nuance to the attraction system.
I like your suggestion about frames and it's something I and others have wanted for a long time. The feminine frame on a male sim now is half baked, a slender waist and loss of muscle mass. What about the male posture and muscle definition that never changes until you switch genders? We should be able to adjust those to our liking. And then there's the whole problem of male sims with female frames and no bust slider. That should be an option we can choose. We should be able to mix and match those things to create the sim we envisioned.
If we had those options and they added a third gender option, call it neither, and we would have what amounts to removing the binary.
Yeah, exactly. I didn't even know that about female frame on male sims because when I make a sim like that I just make him "female" with male pronouns. Again, treating "gender" as just frame. Honestly, as far as I care, that big button next to life stage is only there to tell the game which model to load and how to treat other sims with that model. That's a very important function, but that's the only significance I give it. There are other things for the rest of the necessary stuff.
I think it’s great for sims we create, not a fan of how it’s applied to townies. Like my sim finds someone interesting and attractive, builds up a friendship, only to discover they either don’t have interest in their sex (male not interested in females), or they’re not interested in anyone… great for CAS sims and our own customization, but I miss when you could develop a relationship with any sim that your sim had interest in. Like they would be receptive to your sim regardless of sex/gender, because NPCs didn’t have preferences.
I also miss this option. I always thought that the sims was very tolerant and open minded to allow any sim to build up a relationship with any sim. The gender preferences feel limiting in the sense that sims now check if the other sim is 'the right kind of people'. For the first time in the franchise sims are aware of gender and judge others for it. I don't like slapping labels on them and preferred the implied gender preferences over the explicit boxes to tick.
I also don't like how ALL the sims who were already in my game have different settings for romance and woohoo preferences. (the default is no romantic preference, exploring and willing to woohoo everyone) I wish we would have a default follow option. Just like eyebrows follow the hair color unless specefied otherwise, the woohoo preference should follow the romantic preference unless the player actively changes this in CAS. I may be old fashioned but I was under the impression that the majority of people think romance and woohoo are linked, so why is there no option to have them linked link in the game.
If the game denies me the right to form a couple of two sims of my choosing I will take them to cas and set their preferences to my liking. And this means any combination I like. I want to decide in my own game.
So many of you have shared good points I,never considered.
Perhaps the separation of woohoo interest from romance interest, is a reflection of the awareness that people can be asexual or aromatic or aroace (interested in neither) such that it had to be recognized that romantic feelings and sexual urges are two different things.
Probably it is true that most people have the two come packaged the same way. Realizing that sex characteristics and gender identity are not one and the same, even though in most people they come as a matched set, the hame no longer by default treats it as forgone conclusion that they are the same.
People can still set them the same, but by leaving if up to the player, it avoids bias in one direction or the other.
That is why zo think they separated romance interest from woohoo interest: even though they are the same in perhaps the majority of cases, setting that as default, is a bias in favor of that, and against anything else.
Go back to how it was before (binary with pronouns being dependant on said binary choice)
This is not a safe topic to bring up. People opposed to it can not freely share their opinion as it's a weighted topic that sooner or later will lead to argument from either side between those who are for it and those who are not.
Keep male/female option, but have gender identity chosen separately with a handful of options, each with a certain set of pronouns
The only thing is, they forgot to change brother and sister to just sibling as an option, which can be really triggering to someone who identifies as non-binary or agender etc. Like me. I mean if they are going to be called they/them and have all the clothing and attraction and sexual orientation attributes of an enby, shouldn't they be called a sibling and a child instead of a brother/sister and a daughter/son?
Comments
But that's exactly the problem. "Removing binary entirely" definitely sounds like you could not have the game recognize a sim as simply male or female. Which would cause a lot of things that would need to be re-imagined. Mostly the attraction system. There would definitely need to be some way to set a sim's preferences to stop them from autonomously flirting with sims they aren't supposed to. (Say we want to play the Heckings. Say we don't mind one of them having an affair, but we do mind him flirting with a female-framed sim because we think he would not. But how do we tell the autonomy that?)
Also, of course, the random townies. I don't think they need an extra dose of random... you know? ;D
The way I interpreted the phrase 'remove binary' was to remove the restriction to just male or female. I'm reading that based on the dictionary definition of binary, something consisting of two parts. I can't speak for the OP's thoughts, but that's how I read and interpret it, we'll still have the male and female options but more besides.
I see... but then again, isn't there just about limitless number of options? They would have to come up with some way to decide which ones to add and which ones not to and someone would inevitably feel left out.
Unless... do we really need a button to determine a sim's gender at all? Do we really have to label our sims like that? What if the gender expression was left to the customization options, describing not what a sim is, but how what they are affects them. How it actually shows. Because what goes on in our sim's head is completely up to us and shouldn't be dictated by some UI anyway, right?
And how do I propose a gender label be removed entirely without making a hot mess out of the game mechanics? Easy. Just rename the main binary button "frame" and be done with the whole thing.
I like your suggestion about frames and it's something I and others have wanted for a long time. The feminine frame on a male sim now is half baked, a slender waist and loss of muscle mass. What about the male posture and muscle definition that never changes until you switch genders? We should be able to adjust those to our liking. And then there's the whole problem of male sims with female frames and no bust slider. That should be an option we can choose. We should be able to mix and match those things to create the sim we envisioned.
If we had those options and they added a third gender option, call it neither, and we would have what amounts to removing the binary.
You would still be able to make masculine and feminine sims. Going forward would just mean there will be more nuance to the attraction system.
Yeah, exactly. I didn't even know that about female frame on male sims because when I make a sim like that I just make him "female" with male pronouns. Again, treating "gender" as just frame. Honestly, as far as I care, that big button next to life stage is only there to tell the game which model to load and how to treat other sims with that model. That's a very important function, but that's the only significance I give it. There are other things for the rest of the necessary stuff.
I also miss this option. I always thought that the sims was very tolerant and open minded to allow any sim to build up a relationship with any sim. The gender preferences feel limiting in the sense that sims now check if the other sim is 'the right kind of people'. For the first time in the franchise sims are aware of gender and judge others for it. I don't like slapping labels on them and preferred the implied gender preferences over the explicit boxes to tick.
I also don't like how ALL the sims who were already in my game have different settings for romance and woohoo preferences. (the default is no romantic preference, exploring and willing to woohoo everyone) I wish we would have a default follow option. Just like eyebrows follow the hair color unless specefied otherwise, the woohoo preference should follow the romantic preference unless the player actively changes this in CAS. I may be old fashioned but I was under the impression that the majority of people think romance and woohoo are linked, so why is there no option to have them linked link in the game.
If the game denies me the right to form a couple of two sims of my choosing I will take them to cas and set their preferences to my liking. And this means any combination I like. I want to decide in my own game.
Perhaps the separation of woohoo interest from romance interest, is a reflection of the awareness that people can be asexual or aromatic or aroace (interested in neither) such that it had to be recognized that romantic feelings and sexual urges are two different things.
Probably it is true that most people have the two come packaged the same way. Realizing that sex characteristics and gender identity are not one and the same, even though in most people they come as a matched set, the hame no longer by default treats it as forgone conclusion that they are the same.
People can still set them the same, but by leaving if up to the player, it avoids bias in one direction or the other.
That is why zo think they separated romance interest from woohoo interest: even though they are the same in perhaps the majority of cases, setting that as default, is a bias in favor of that, and against anything else.
So it is up to the player.
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