Gender in the Sims Series «12...Next Go

KikiSparks1209

I've been thinking about how the Sims handles stuff like gender identity in the latest updates, and I'd like to hear your opinions! Feel free to vote and/or comment with your view on how the series should handle this topic in future installments. And please keep the conversation constructive and hate-free; this isn't a free-for-all to start screaming about how gender has to match your ideas of it. I'm just curious and looking for some open, constructive conversation!

Winifred_Willow

Other (please comment!)

Some sims I choose specifically how I want them based on game play and what I plan, others I let the game just do it's thing and choose. Sims that have options already selected I leave alone.

imhappy

I was one of those people who were annoyed at all the gender/sexuality updates. Not because I don’t think they are important. But because I rather they work on bug fixes and actual gameplay.

With that being said, I’m pleasantly surprised at how well it was done. And now that it’s finished and everyone has more choices for their Sims, I hope they can go back to big fixes and game play.

JustinB113

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

I think it’s fine as it is. I don’t think they should remove gender as it’s a life simulator and in life there are genders.

Overall I think players should get options for making sims, but townies should generate as male/female or they should add options for you to customise how townies generate.

Of all of their diversity stuff I think the pronouns have been much better implemented than body hair and orientation - these features are great for those who want them but also should really be something you can ignore if you want to.

friendlysimmers

not on the poll so my vote is none of the above

Ray_Trace

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

The only potential issue with the current system is that genderfluids have a slightly more difficult time to adjust, so I'd opt in a change gender option in say an interaction cue or mirror or something. Maybe should just be a new emotional trait altogether that constantly shifts at intervals and changes how your Sims behaves.

mightysprite

Other (please comment!)

I would have said "remove binary entirely" except I still want there to be he/him and she/her pronouns available along with everything else.

Kathykins

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

I don't care about pronouns, my played sims are either male or female, who or what gender they are attracted to doesn't change their gender. I don't really know how it all works with the "choose a pronoun" so I've given some of my sims he/him or she/her just to be sure. I don't know, maybe they'll be called "them" if I don't pick something.

Ray_Trace

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

btw I'm very confused at option 3 (Remove binary entirely (simply adjust your sim to look how you want incl. chest, beard, etc. with no gender tags)). Does that mean to get rid of pronouns entirely or...doesn't the current system already allow you to deviate by personalizing the pronouns? I don't think getting rid of gender tags will be possible because that means notifications and moodlet descriptions won't really work properly, unless all moodlets refer to the Sim in first person and notifications are reworked entirely (and I like having a pronoun feature personally).

CAPTAIN_NXR7

Other (please comment!)

The way gender identities are currently being handled in game is one that should suit almost everyone.
I’m not a fan of the ginormous pronoun UI, I would have placed it under the sim details tab where sexual orientation can also be found, but adding pronouns behind one’s name is trending IRL at the moment, so I can understand why the devs chose to place it where it currently is.
That’s OK, It doesn’t actually bother me (I just don’t really fancy it from a UI design POV) and I find myself using the pronoun customization tool more often than I thought I would. It’s great for both fantasy players like myself and people who’d rather prefer playing the game based on real life.
It is also entirely optional so if one doesn’t want to use this tool, it can be disregarded (with the exception of the UI) and the game remains unchanged.

I’m aware that this feature is in ongoing development, but overall I’m pretty satisfied with how it works since there are options for almost every kind of player and that’s the way it should be. 👍🏼

DaniRose2143

Keep male/female option, but have gender identity chosen separately with a handful of options, each with a certain set of pronouns

I debated between this and other. One of the things I've wanted the game to do better is transgender sims. It's all well and good that we can for instance give a 'male' sim a female frame but we can't give her breasts without a mod. All we can really do is give her a more defined hourglass shape. She'll still have a male stance and the default male musculature. It does feminize her face, but until you officially switch her gender to female, things like hair and makeup in the female sort don't display properly. When that happens, you can choose the female options, but not all of them show up, and the ones that do, have a thumbnail that lacks detail and everything is displayed on a male head. Same thing with nails. You can't see what a particular lipstick shade or nail shape looks like before selecting it. Half of the female options don't show, and the thumbnail doesn't give you a good look at the nails, just a male hand with a tiny sliver of the nail. I don't feel like it's a cc creator issue since their item is available to use on that sim so the creator hasn't marked it as a female only item.

The sim in question may have been assigned male but she's transitioning and living as her true self and the game does a horrible job of depicting that journey. It does the full before and after well, but the journey in between is, diplomatically speaking, a complete mess. Also I agree gender identity should be a separate option, but all pronouns should be available to any sim. I don't feel like certain gender identities should be limited to certain pronouns.

Ilikebuilding

Other (please comment!)

I have no idea what the gender options mean. What are they for? They seem to make no difference what gender you assign to them. I have come to the conclusion they are just for if you upload them.
But one strange thing. When they become young adults, some females sound like males, no matter how you fiddle about in CAS. What's that all about?

Ray_Trace

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

Ilikebuilding wrote: »

I have no idea what the gender options mean. What are they for? They seem to make no difference what gender you assign to them. I have come to the conclusion they are just for if you upload them.
But one strange thing. When they become young adults, some females sound like males, no matter how you fiddle about in CAS. What's that all about?

The Sims gender determines what pronouns the game gives them in moodlets and notifications. Sometimes it doesn't properly, I have my male Sim still being referred to as a "them" in some notifications and moodlets and I saw a grammar error with the hangnail moodlet from the high maintenance trait ({Sim Name's} Nails have rebelled against their!")

BTW that version of CAS where you can edit their voice you can't access without cheats after you first create a sim. For that you need to turn "testingCheats true" and "cas.fulleditmode", shift click on the Sim and hit "Edit in CAS".

ChadSims2

Other (please comment!)

I prefer the way it was originally before the Sims team messed everything up when they poorly added this feature with text that does not even make sense whatsoever such as Ray said.

Ray_Trace wrote: »

I have my male Sim still being referred to as a "them" in some notifications and moodlets and I saw a grammar error with the hangnail moodlet from the high maintenance trait ({Sim Name's} Nails have rebelled against their!")

Why is his male Sim who does not use those pronouns being called a them and their why is the Sims team misgendering Sims?

Ray_Trace

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

To be fair, that was the result of an overlook since notifications/moodlets tend to be inconsistent (some moodlets refer to your Sim in first person, others do it in third person, some default to "them" rather than properly shifting pronouns, even prior to the update).

EA_Cade

ChadSims2 wrote: »

I prefer the way it was originally before the Sims team messed everything up when they poorly added this feature with text that does not even make sense whatsoever such as Ray said.

Ray_Trace wrote: »

I have my male Sim still being referred to as a "them" in some notifications and moodlets and I saw a grammar error with the hangnail moodlet from the high maintenance trait ({Sim Name's} Nails have rebelled against their!")

Why is his male Sim who does not use those pronouns being called a them and their why is the Sims team misgendering Sims?

I believe the technical term is "Bug".

We have threads for all of these and more on Answers HQ.

Babykittyjade

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

I'd like to keep whatever it is we have now since it's the most flexible. Definitely wouldn't want gender removed as the third poll option suggests. I don't like labels but that's a case of no labels gone too far, once we get to a point where nothing is defined or named and we have to invent new words to speak about old things. 😆
Yeah, now it's perfect to me.

Yoshibug20

Keep male/female option, add third, gender-neutral choice

It would probably take the most work, but I've actually thought a lot about the possibility of adding a gender neutral choice and how that would play out. This could be called the "Custom" gender; denoted by a ☄ comet symbol instead of ♂️ Mars or ♀️ Venus symbol.

Custom Sims can choose between masculine or feminine frames, choose to be allowed into areas locked to one sex or either of the two sexes (like bathrooms and gender doors), and choose any of their CAS gender settings.

Gendered animations like the "sexy pose" interaction could even be replaced with animations designed specifically for Custom Sims. These types of animations would either be undifferentiated and not draw from traditional gender archetypes, or Custom Sims could have their own gendered archetype and animations (which could be decided on by the LGBTIQ+ community).

I feel like I could improve upon this idea; please let me know what you all think.

CordeliaBeaufort

Keep male/female option, add third, gender-neutral choice

I think some creatures are more suited to gender neutral. (Ie Grim Reaper)
For my gameplay, I do play with ancient sprits, angels, demons and they are supposed to be gender neutral aswell.

ignominiusrex

Keep male/female option, add third, gender-neutral choice

Of course keep male and female options, but ask for gender separate from sex, so you could choose the two as they are for both cisgender and transgender individuals, plus add an option of a third, for each: intersex and nonbinary, respectively.

Then let the player choose pronouns whether he/him, she/her, or they/them.

That should cover all contingencies without getting too complicated: cisgender and transgender people, intersection and nonvinary people, and any combinations thereof.

The mods that provide details for transgender sims such as gender affirming healthcare are nice, allow for social and medical transition at varying levels that the player can choose and they have effects in game.

BlueR0se

Keep male/female option, add third, gender-neutral choice

I think I may have misunderstood the option I chose but oh well. Ultimately, I am satisfied with what we have, my only critique is that we need gender neutral options for things like "son," "daughter," "mother," "father," etc. Getting the option to customize that stuff individually I think would be the best solution as there is no universal answer for those kind of things and it also allows for further customization options for everyone else for things like job titles if applicable.

Nikkih

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

I think the developers done this amazingly how it is, I'm not sure how much more they could do with this though, well we have the "traditional" genders male and female, we have non-binary ie pronouns and of course we could have a legit transgender sim, we can customize this exactly how we like it through gender options, we could also customize to an extent that no male or female symbols comes up, if there's more they could add please educate me, but as I feel this customization of the game is complete

CrazyCatGal28

I think it’s great for sims we create, not a fan of how it’s applied to townies. Like my sim finds someone interesting and attractive, builds up a friendship, only to discover they either don’t have interest in their sex (male not interested in females), or they’re not interested in anyone… great for CAS sims and our own customization, but I miss when you could develop a relationship with any sim that your sim had interest in. Like they would be receptive to your sim regardless of sex/gender, because NPCs didn’t have preferences.

_Gina

Keep gender as is (binary with pronoun choice)

I like it the way it is now. My only gripe is that (at least in my game) sims tend to get the they/them by default. I like to play rotationally, with premade sims, and it means going to CAS an assigning proper pronouns to every single sim I'm starting to play. It's nothing major, but I'd definitely like it if sims could still get default pronouns based on their frame. The option to change that is now there and... it is still more likely we will leave them than change them, right?

Also, the "get rid of binary completely" option... confuses me. I just... can't imagine how that would even work, so that's kind of a scary prospect.

CieloSims

I chose other because I liked how it was before all the gender options. Male or female, that's it.

DaniRose2143

Keep male/female option, but have gender identity chosen separately with a handful of options, each with a certain set of pronouns

_Gina wrote: »

I like it the way it is now. My only gripe is that (at least in my game) sims tend to get the they/them by default. I like to play rotationally, with premade sims, and it means going to CAS an assigning proper pronouns to every single sim I'm starting to play. It's nothing major, but I'd definitely like it if sims could still get default pronouns based on their frame. The option to change that is now there and... it is still more likely we will leave them than change them, right?

Also, the "get rid of binary completely" option... confuses me. I just... can't imagine how that would even work, so that's kind of a scary prospect.

The way that is supposed to work there would be more than just male or female. You could still have a sim be male or female but you would have the option to choose some degree of both male and female at the same time or choose to have no gender identity at all. The way the both option could work is the sim doesn't have a specified gender but leans towards one. Or a sim could be female but leans towards male but doesn't want to be labeled male. I that's how I understand it. It allows for that sim to represent a broad spectrum of gender expression instead of just the rigid either or, male or female definition.