What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
I'm hopeful for new occults, but they need to do something to improve merfolk and aliens. Maybe, they could give merfolk underwater lots in Sulani and give both occults abilities similar to Vampires and Spellcasters.
What’s intriguing is that the target audience of the sims 4 (young girls and LGBT) are very much into occult. Most of us have seen Harry Potter, twilight, true blood, American horror story, h2O, vampire diaries… and any show that mixes romanticized young adult life with occult, really. Like others people said, it brings a touch of edginess to our everyday realistic life. Most of us like the appeal of a hot werewolf boyfriend, a cute witch, an alluring mermaid etc… it really adds another dimension to the game. The sims 3 supernatural was a success, it just was really good and tons of players play the sims 3 just because of that expansion. (the mystic career that was added in the sims3 need to make a comeback)
There’s tons of players who create CC specially for these occult life states, i also see tons of videos online about it. It’s really part of the game
I firmly believe they’re losing players/money by making us wait this long between each occult state. And it’s a shame because the sims 4 vampires were well made (even tho a bit overturned), the spell casters were an upgrade from the precedent opus (even tho 50% of the spells were just glorified uninspired cheats), and i love the mermaids (they still need a proper diving spot though, hope they add that in a refresh later).
I also believe they’re afraid of going « all in » with the supernatural in general. I absolutely love paranormal stuff pack but the cute Casper ghosts ruin it for me. I wish they worked on the actual ghosts that exist in game and made them possess the sims that lived in the haunted house. I don’t think that would be too much, they did it with the flop of a gamepack that is strangerville. So why not have actual ghosts possess our sims and make them do weird stuff ? that would be a proper scary haunted house. But nah… cute green floating ghosts. It’s just weird that they’re so reluctant creating a scary experience when i see tons of young people like me online genuinely going out of their way to look for mods that make the game scarier/more difficult etc. It doesn’t need to be violent, but there’s so many ways to have a unique and scary experience playing occult, it just seems that they don’t look into it, almost as if that didn’t inspire them that much
I don’t remember if fairies or werewolves were the second most popular after mermaids and witches, but i hope they go for werewolves first because right now, even i, (a gay boy who loves mermaids and dollhouse stuff) think the game is becoming too girly. Before that, you’d have a bit of everything. But now with the lack of risk, the absence of cars, the limited options of sporty-games and hobbies, it’s becoming harder making a male sims that isn’t ken from barbie when everything is pink + bunnies + plants + ecofriendly + dream home + party outfits + Los Angeles + Cute cakes
I thought that maybe at one point they would end up doing an expansion pack reuniting fairies vs werewolves or something along the lines, which would be the amount of two game packs. It seems to me that they just don’t want to follow a logic schedule when it comes to releases and are experimenting with the fan base in terms of content and marketing so who knows. (I guess at this point it’s just me wishful thinking)
I also hope they work on generations or something that ressembles that. I really want in depth family gameplay for my family of mermaids, i also need something that expands on single sim activities. It’s weird to me that they insist so much on parties and making friends and « living it up ». I just want my sims to have depth and develop interesting hobbies/have fun on their own being a loner, i don’t feel the need to throw a party every 2 business days with barbie.
I have to agree with this. Supernatural stuff is poppular in real life. The trending show on Netflix right now that I hear everybody talking about is a Korean zombie highschool series. And look at the video games little kids are playing these days. Even I don't play them lol.
This game steers away hard from dark/edgy/sinister/dangerous content and that's sad for those of us who enjoys it and whats a darker way to play! And I'm not talking about anything wild that surpasses the rating.
I know this is not resident evil but I just wanted to at least have ghosts like I saw in sims 2 videos! Now that was creepy!
My evil vampire ends up knitting because we don't even have a career or some interesting activities to do for evil occults or mischief sims. Perhaps pranking the toilet? No evil sentiments?
I was really disappointed with the paranormal ghosts too. It turned an otherwise fantastic pack into super Mario 😂😂 it's obvious this is the direction they want to go in so I just have to to make the best of what I got to work with. 🤷♀️
The Disney content they have is fine. I'm just wondering why they don't do both.
I have a feeling that the stearing towards a "cleaner" image is to pacify the pearl clutches of the world, aka "Oh my good golly gosh! Under the mosaic sims are nekked, and they look exactly like Barbie and Ken dolls! Oh the humanity!" *passes out onto the closest fainting couch*. At least, that's how I imagine they sound.
Seriously, it has got to be one of the reasons why romance is so heavily understated. I mean, sims nearly hold hands or cuddle or act all the intimate at all, they're just so "kid-friendly" that I can't help but wonder if some kind of nun was overseeing the development of the romance animations. As I've said many, many times, I'm not asking for <redacted> Mod, just something that doesn't feel more steralized, market-tested or safe.
In saying that however, I have seen parents complaining that TS4 is too "explicit" for their children. And that isn't a good sign IMHO, since it implies that the safest and most kid-friendly version of the sims is too "racy" just because it had woohoo.
Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand. It feels like the issue with occults is also tied to the lack of romantic interactions, as EA is trying to market to a younger demographic, and to do that, they need to sterilise the schniz out of the game.
This is just a theory of mine, but it just makes too much sense for it not to be somewhat true, even in a small amount. Annyway, it could also have something to do with some of the backlash vampires got. IIRC, there was a drama llama on Twitter around the time vampire gameplay was nerfed into oblivion, who compared the vampire break-ins with a very non-consensual adult act.
This comparison obviously shot up red flags to the big wigs, can't have the Sims or their company associated with such non-consentioal acts, which is fair enough. So it was decided that vampires would be hard nerfed and that every occult life state afterwards should be pre-nerfed to avoid such comparisons in the future, even though it means removing the more interesting aspects of the gameplay and watering it down to over-glorified cheats, instead of useful gameplay.
Anyway, it's just disappointing that the gurus have to pre-nerf themselves and keep retreading the same boring and tired trends, instead of doing what they clearly want to do. You can see it the most with Strangerville and Paranormal, you can see what they wanted to do but were unable to because they have every narrow box they can't step outside of anymore, for fear of drama llamas on social media and their bad faith comparisons.
CM Edit: Don't mention those mods please, they're banned for a reason.
If they are trying to market to younger demographics, Heads up people kids grow up to be adults and adults have a longer life span. Just saying!!!!
I'm aware people grow up, I started playing the sims when I was 9 and I'm still here 20 years later lol. The thing is, it feels like they're ONLY marketing to the younger generation, without thought or care for retaining veteran players like myself and many, many others on this forum.
You can even see it with this current round of pandering to PoC and LGBT+ crowd, we've always had the power to create PoC's and LGTB+ couples in the sims, I don't see why now it's important to parade it around as if it's the newest and hottest thing since sliced bread. Marketing to fads, for lack of a better word, gives off the impression that they don't really care and are only doing it to seem "hip" and "with it". It also goes back to what I was saying earlier in my comment about how romantic interactions feel so G rated, I have a hard time believing that this game is actually rated PG13 (in the states) or M (in Aus) because of how tame it is, outside of woohoo and references to alcohol. :-/
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
When I heard people complaining about the constant vampire break-ins I was green with envy because my sims only got attacked once by Vlad, and never again. So when I heard tthat other simmers were having lots of attacks, several nights in a row, I thought there was something wrong with my copy of the game. Like I thought there was a setting or something, the hours I spent trying to figure out what was wrong with my game was annoying and I felt helpless.
But then I found out that the people who were complaining were talking about the random nighttime visits by the vampire NPC's or seeing them walk past the house of a night time. My jaw hit my desk when I found out that people were lumping the walk-by's and random NPC visits into the "break-in" function, I was just in absolute shock that people were getting in a tizzy over a basic NPC function, that EVERY SINGLE NPC uses in the game.
Don't get me wrong, I was happy that my game wasn't broken, but man, I was shocked, to say the least.
Post edited by halloweenchild on
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
I'm hopeful for new occults, but they need to do something to improve merfolk and aliens. Maybe, they could give merfolk underwater lots in Sulani and give both occults abilities similar to Vampires and Spellcasters.
I'm not holding my breath, bug I'm hopeful.
I would really like more abilities/spells for merfolk and aliens too. For ghosts as well.
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
Couldn't agree with you more. The people wanting to play with the packs main features shouldn't be the one's having to go through every lot in the world to change it's status. If they go this way then at the very least the pack should automatically add that challenge to every single lot in the game.
I'm so tired of us Occult Players being accommodating and trying to make compromise suggestions.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
Couldn't agree with you more. The people wanting to play with the packs main features shouldn't be the one's having to go through every lot in the world to change it's status. If they go this way then at the very least the pack should automatically add that challenge to every single lot in the game.
I'm so tired of us Occult Players being accommodating and trying to make compromise suggestions.
I, myself play with occult sims regularly, though I prefer to get them through gameplay (marrying in, having kids, turning etc) rather than CAS most of the time. I also play with non-occult lot challenges in every household as standard, as long as it makes sense there.
All it would need is a global toggle in Options to apply the lot challenge globally, or disable it globally as default.
As I usually go in and add Simple Living and Reduce & Recycle to every single household as standard (for everyday challenge), adding the occult related ones aren't an issue for me personally. You don't need to add it until you play with them anyway.
I also add appropriate challenges for each world/neighbourhood too, now that they don't take up a Lot Trait slot. Volcanic activity everywhere in Sulani. Earthquakes everywhere in Del Sol Valley. Filthy on farm/countryside lots.
I would love for alien abductions to be based on lot, rather than activities, so even sims who aren't science minded have a chance to get abducted, just because they happened to be somewhere interesting to aliens. You didn't see anything glowing in that pond. Honest...
I would love for vampires to be more likely to autonomously drink from sims on some community lots, such as those with a hidden vampire lair beneath, as well as just attack sims in their homes.
Adding these as challenges to lots doesn't mean it happens every night, it just means it happens at all. It also allows me to decide where it's appropriate, and where it isn't.
I enjoy lot challenges and "negative" gameplay and would rather they be quick and easy to apply, but also quick and easy to remove, so they don't get nerfed.
I play a realistic game, very rarely touch the supernatural elements in Sims games, and even I wish there at least a little more activity.
I loathed how Vampires completely overran the worlds once you installed the pack in TS2....but TS4 takes it to the other extreme, I almost never even see any of the vampires that I know are out there.
I absolutely love the idea of having them associated with Lot Challenges we could add or remove at will.
I also think they should go back to including occult lifestates in more of the packs. I recognize that it's a controversial view to have for most people who don't play with them at all, but the alternative has proven to be that people who like occults in their game are being completely shortchanged. I just don't think that's fair to that segment of the community which has been a part of this franchise since the beginning.
I'm saying this as someone who was one of the lobbiests in favor of splitting them out into their own packs "back in the day"....now that I have seen the end result of that, I have changed my mind.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
Couldn't agree with you more. The people wanting to play with the packs main features shouldn't be the one's having to go through every lot in the world to change it's status. If they go this way then at the very least the pack should automatically add that challenge to every single lot in the game.
I'm so tired of us Occult Players being accommodating and trying to make compromise suggestions.
I, myself play with occult sims regularly, though I prefer to get them through gameplay (marrying in, having kids, turning etc) rather than CAS most of the time. I also play with non-occult lot challenges in every household as standard, as long as it makes sense there.
All it would need is a global toggle in Options to apply the lot challenge globally, or disable it globally as default.
As I usually go in and add Simple Living and Reduce & Recycle to every single household as standard (for everyday challenge), adding the occult related ones aren't an issue for me personally. You don't need to add it until you play with them anyway.
I also add appropriate challenges for each world/neighbourhood too, now that they don't take up a Lot Trait slot. Volcanic activity everywhere in Sulani. Earthquakes everywhere in Del Sol Valley. Filthy on farm/countryside lots.
I would love for alien abductions to be based on lot, rather than activities, so even sims who aren't science minded have a chance to get abducted, just because they happened to be somewhere interesting to aliens. You didn't see anything glowing in that pond. Honest...
I would love for vampires to be more likely to autonomously drink from sims on some community lots, such as those with a hidden vampire lair beneath, as well as just attack sims in their homes.
Adding these as challenges to lots doesn't mean it happens every night, it just means it happens at all. It also allows me to decide where it's appropriate, and where it isn't.
I enjoy lot challenges and would rather they be quick and easy to apply, but also quick and easy to remove, so they don't get nerfed.
The alien part made me really sad, because sims who weren't science-minded used to get abducted quite a bit. Until people complained and it was nerfed, now it's perma locked to the scientist career and the satellite specific item. -_-
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
I play a realistic game, very rarely touch the supernatural elements in Sims games, and even I wish there at least a little more activity.
I loathed how Vampires completely overran the worlds once you installed the pack in TS2....but TS4 takes it to the other extreme, I almost never even see any of the vampires that I know are out there.
I absolutely love the idea of having them associated with Lot Challenges we could add or remove at will.
I also think they should go back to including occult lifestates in more of the packs. I recognize that it's a controversial view to have for most people who don't play with them at all, but the alternative has proven to be that people who like occults in their game are being completely shortchanged. I just don't think that's fair to that segment of the community which has been a part of this franchise since the beginning.
I'm saying this as someone who was one of the lobbiests in favor of splitting them out into their own packs "back in the day"....now that I have seen the end result of that, I have changed my mind.
No way, I, and many others, don't want occult life-states to go back to being side pieces to the main packs. We've seen what happens, mermaids for example are extremely underdeveloped and are lacking in proper skill trees. Same with Aliens, they were added as an afterthought. No skill trees or anything to their names. Heck, even ghosts got this treatment and IIRC were added in a free patch after people complained that they were missing.
Adding occults in their own special packs, is the best solution IMHO and the only way they can have the time and effort given to them so they can have proper gameplay. The people who buy the occult packs for the "stuff" and not the main focus only have themselves to blame, not the occult.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
That’s fair enough and makes sense, especially for GPs and smaller packs.
Unfortunately it’s the folks who are not very creative and intuitive that complain about these features. They do not possess the ability to think for themselves nor find work arounds, so they head straight for the manager’s office. These people decide to buy an item they don’t necessarily care for without considering the consequences of having such item, then make a fuss about it actually working as intended.
The problem is that often times these are also the people who get their way. They would rather instigate drama to get what THEY want instead of going through a few simple steps to make it work for themselves without having restrictions imposed on others.
And so here’s the manager’s response: “Oh for god’s sake just do what they ask for as long as they shut up.”
Now it’s up for debate whether or not that particular manager should be a manager in the first place. 😅
It’s also like those people who decided to adopt a cute little puppy, then rage about never being able to go anywhere because of the DOG. “OMG I bought it to carry it around in my hand bag but it’s misbehaving and I don’t have TIME to bring it to puppy school or train it!! MY LIFE’S A MESS!! OMG MY BAG IS TOO!!!”
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
No way, I, and many others, don't want occult life-states to go back to being side pieces to the main packs. We've seen what happens, mermaids for example are extremely underdeveloped and are lacking in proper skill trees. Same with Aliens, they were added as an afterthought. No skill trees or anything to their names. Heck, even ghosts got this treatment and IIRC were added in a free patch after people complained that they were missing.
Be realistic, you were never going to get a pack dedicated to just mermaids. The choices were having them in a pack with other things or not having them at all for that particular lifestate. Which is the point I was making. For some lifestates, putting them in other packs is the way to go, because the alternative is not getting them at all.
At least once they add them to the game in the first place, even if they do a subpar job, it's an easier task for modders to make them better.
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
That’s fair enough and makes sense, especially for GPs and smaller packs.
Unfortunately it’s the folks who are not very creative and intuitive that complain about these features. They do not possess the ability to think for themselves nor find work arounds, so they head straight for the manager’s office. These people decide to buy an item they don’t necessarily care for without considering the consequences of having such item, then make a fuss about it actually working as intended.
The problem is that often times these are also the people who get their way. They would rather instigate drama to get what THEY want instead of going through a few simple steps to make it work for themselves without having restrictions imposed on others.
And so here’s the manager’s response: “Oh for god’s sake just do what they ask for as long as they shut up.”
Now it’s up for debate whether or not that particular manager should be a manager in the first place. 😅
It’s also like those people who decided to adopt a cute little puppy, then rage about never being able to go anywhere because of the DOG. “OMG I bought it to carry it around in my hand bag but it’s misbehaving and I don’t have TIME to bring it to puppy school or train it!! MY LIFE’S A MESS!! OMG MY BAG IS TOO!!!”
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
I also feel really sad for that metaphorical misbehaving puppy in the handbag. 😭
No way, I, and many others, don't want occult life-states to go back to being side pieces to the main packs. We've seen what happens, mermaids for example are extremely underdeveloped and are lacking in proper skill trees. Same with Aliens, they were added as an afterthought. No skill trees or anything to their names. Heck, even ghosts got this treatment and IIRC were added in a free patch after people complained that they were missing.
Be realistic, you were never going to get a pack dedicated to just mermaids. The choices were having them in a pack with other things or not having them at all for that particular lifestate. Which is the point I was making. For some lifestates, putting them in other packs is the way to go, because the alternative is not getting them at all.
At least once they add them to the game in the first place, even if they do a subpar job, it's an easier task for modders to make them better.
I get that, but the result is that the life-states will always end up half-baked and underdeveloped, either have a separate dev team work on said lifestate or give it it's own pack.
We as players shouldn't have to rely on mods or modders either, moding should be for fun, not to fix a game the gurus/devs should be fixing. This goes for all studios, not just EA/Maxis.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
That’s fair enough and makes sense, especially for GPs and smaller packs.
Unfortunately it’s the folks who are not very creative and intuitive that complain about these features. They do not possess the ability to think for themselves nor find work arounds, so they head straight for the manager’s office. These people decide to buy an item they don’t necessarily care for without considering the consequences of having such item, then make a fuss about it actually working as intended.
The problem is that often times these are also the people who get their way. They would rather instigate drama to get what THEY want instead of going through a few simple steps to make it work for themselves without having restrictions imposed on others.
And so here’s the manager’s response: “Oh for god’s sake just do what they ask for as long as they shut up.”
Now it’s up for debate whether or not that particular manager should be a manager in the first place. 😅
It’s also like those people who decided to adopt a cute little puppy, then rage about never being able to go anywhere because of the DOG. “OMG I bought it to carry it around in my hand bag but it’s misbehaving and I don’t have TIME to bring it to puppy school or train it!! MY LIFE’S A MESS!! OMG MY BAG IS TOO!!!”
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
I also feel really sad for that metaphorical misbehaving puppy in the handbag. 😭
Aw. That’s because you care. ❤️
The metaphorical person carrying that metaphorical puppy in their metaphorical handbag doesn’t.
Not about the puppy anyway.
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
Grump away. Several foot of snow on the ground and at least another seven or eight weeks until I can get outside and get seeds in the ground. I'm going insane indoors. A bug free fleshed out Occult pack would've calmed the howling monster I'm becoming
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
Grump away. Several foot of snow on the ground and at least another seven or eight weeks until I can get outside and get seeds in the ground. I'm going insane indoors. A bug free fleshed out Occult pack would've calmed the howling monster I'm becoming
You need a conservatory or greenhouse like your sims have
What was the exact wording? Because "We hear you" I parse as corporate for "We are painfully aware of your pesky prodding, and although we don't have immediate plans for this feature, we don't want to rule out that we may some day implement it, after all.".
I wonder, though…. Would the Sims team continue occult-oriented packs like RoM depending on the feedback? Vampires had great feedback, but also had controversy and backlash to the point of Sims team nerfing them and other occults, and that led to Realm-only occult/secretive occults (spellcaster) or very tame/mild occults (see: mermaids).
Honestly, that is such a headscratcher. Just how averse can one be to offering toggles? A simple off/on switch labeled "Vampires are real" and we could decide whether we want vampire gameplay or not, while keeping all the Build/Buy objects. No need to nerf anything. Realism players would simply untick the box in every save, occult players keep it checked always and story players could decided on a save-by-save basis.
I think everyone would be happy if they made two packs instead of one. A full pack like vampires and a second pack with all the BB and CAS items for that pack. That way they can have all the BB and CAS without the Vampires. So with that in mind make a Werewolf pack and a pack with the CAS and BB for the Werewolf pack, etc, etc, etc. Let's add in all possible paranormal packs that way. And while we're at it let's start yesterday.
I think this solution would overlook those of us who belong to the “middle“ group in all of this; that is those of us who like to play with occults but also enjoy more “realistic” gameplay and don’t necessarily want this to play out at the same time. I think it’s annoying that Vlad isn’t there when I want him to be, but insists on turning up whenever I find him to be out of place, sneaking in while my sims are having a party just so he can stay and use their computer for half the night 🙄
This goes for many unwelcome NPCs though and I wish we had more control over how they invade our story territory without the need of mods.
I agree with @EternalSunshine that toggles or lot traits would be a much more ideal solution. It may be that they say adding toggles could potentially end up breaking the game, but we’ve seen toggles being added with several of the more recent packs so it’s not like it isn’t an option at all. And that way those players who’d prefer to go all in on occults could do that, those who’d rather not would have that option and those of us who’d enjoy a mix where we can let occults run wild in some saves, have them take the backseat in others and just have a little bit of everything in the rest of our saves could do that instead of it being one big muddle in every save.
I feel that since they added lot challenges to base game, some of the mechanics of previous packs should be reconsidered and transferred . Getting vampires to visit a lot should be part of lot challenge now, same way cottage living foxes cannot visit the farm and terrorize the chickens unless that lot challenge is activated.
This way there’s no need for complaints from both sides. If a player doesn’t want something to happen on their lot, don’t use the challenge. The beauty is that we can have as many lot challenges as we like.
Of course there will always be a NerfSquad lurking in the shadows, ready to attack the moment some sim does something without another sims consent, (at least that’s how they’d read it) but sure….we just have to try and stand our ground whenever they open their genius mouth and open our maws wider and howl louder.
The lot challenge has been the fairest toggle yet and doesn’t require a pack to be split. Personally I prefer getting a Game Pack such as Vampires to include a gameplay system, a world and CAS & BB to make the entire occult experience feel more complete.
I would go the other way if it were a lot trait. Maybe patch in a lot Trait for base game that is "Occult free" so that specialty packs can continue to be designed freely as their own "normal". I really loved Vampire break-ins, not knowing when it would happen or to which household (I play many) they would show up at, and that was part of the joy of it - the element of surprise, the not knowing. If I had to use a lot trait for attacks, it would become predictable and, knowing the Sims 4 mechanics, overdone. I wouldn't want it to be a "challenge", I'd want it to be an unpredictable possibility, true to the lore of the creature itself.
Plus, as has been pointed out, if someone is going to buy a pack they know they won't like, just for objects or clothing, then the responsibility should be on them to equip the lot trait to keep out the Occults, not the person who bought it for its actual theme.
Just my two cents.
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
Dust System - Easier to add/remove from lots and could be made available on community lots.
Haunted Houses - Remove the Haunted House residential lot type and add it as a lot challenge instead. This gameplay could then be used in tiny homes, apartments, rentals and community lots. Maybe hotels at some point too.
TLC Lot Trait - This is rightfully a lot challenge. Adding the challenge could add the objects required to the lot requirements list and give you access to them in the catalogue. This way you can choose where to place them. This would allow the TLC gameplay (except for Landlord) on lots other than apartments. This lot challenge would lower the rent by a set percentage, or lower lot taxes on non-apartment lots.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
That’s fair enough and makes sense, especially for GPs and smaller packs.
Unfortunately it’s the folks who are not very creative and intuitive that complain about these features. They do not possess the ability to think for themselves nor find work arounds, so they head straight for the manager’s office. These people decide to buy an item they don’t necessarily care for without considering the consequences of having such item, then make a fuss about it actually working as intended.
The problem is that often times these are also the people who get their way. They would rather instigate drama to get what THEY want instead of going through a few simple steps to make it work for themselves without having restrictions imposed on others.
And so here’s the manager’s response: “Oh for god’s sake just do what they ask for as long as they shut up.”
Now it’s up for debate whether or not that particular manager should be a manager in the first place. 😅
It’s also like those people who decided to adopt a cute little puppy, then rage about never being able to go anywhere because of the DOG. “OMG I bought it to carry it around in my hand bag but it’s misbehaving and I don’t have TIME to bring it to puppy school or train it!! MY LIFE’S A MESS!! OMG MY BAG IS TOO!!!”
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
I also feel really sad for that metaphorical misbehaving puppy in the handbag. 😭
Aw. That’s because you care. ❤️
The metaphorical person carrying that metaphorical puppy in their metaphorical handbag doesn’t.
Not about the puppy anyway.
I think I hear "this should've been base game", every pack that gets announced. A lot of yoi should never run your own company lol.
Yes EA is notoriously greedy, but come on. Not everything can be free, it's a business.
Speaking for myself, I have no problem paying for what I want if it means I can get the things I want in my game. I know that my personal taste is a little outside of the standard life simulation so it's fine. It's just a matter of the content actually existing to be offered so I can throw my money at it. I don't even care if dating and attraction and every Occult comes in a different GP, I will buy them all. I'm just afraid that when things like decorating and weddings start to take up the GP space, where does that leave Occult players?
Yes. Dream home decorator was the first Game Pack that I skipped. I am uninterested in weddings but the world looks interesting. When there is a pack with gameplay that I enjoy available I will probably get it but I will not go online and check all my mods and CC just for a new map. Hope we will get a interesting new occult soon, and that it will get it's own pack. Mermaids and aliens are fun to have in my game but there is a huge difference between the states that came as side-dishes in large packs or Vampires or Spellcasters.
Comments
I think negative autonomous things like this work perfectly as Lot Challenges, due to there being no limit on how many you can set.
If you have an Occult Free lot trait and want it on all lots, that limits you to only 2 other traits, whereas doing it the above way means you can still pick 3 positive traits.
Several things could be reworked as lot challenges too:
I'm not holding my breath, bug I'm hopeful.
I'm aware people grow up, I started playing the sims when I was 9 and I'm still here 20 years later lol. The thing is, it feels like they're ONLY marketing to the younger generation, without thought or care for retaining veteran players like myself and many, many others on this forum.
You can even see it with this current round of pandering to PoC and LGBT+ crowd, we've always had the power to create PoC's and LGTB+ couples in the sims, I don't see why now it's important to parade it around as if it's the newest and hottest thing since sliced bread. Marketing to fads, for lack of a better word, gives off the impression that they don't really care and are only doing it to seem "hip" and "with it". It also goes back to what I was saying earlier in my comment about how romantic interactions feel so G rated, I have a hard time believing that this game is actually rated PG13 (in the states) or M (in Aus) because of how tame it is, outside of woohoo and references to alcohol. :-/
When I heard people complaining about the constant vampire break-ins I was green with envy because my sims only got attacked once by Vlad, and never again. So when I heard tthat other simmers were having lots of attacks, several nights in a row, I thought there was something wrong with my copy of the game. Like I thought there was a setting or something, the hours I spent trying to figure out what was wrong with my game was annoying and I felt helpless.
But then I found out that the people who were complaining were talking about the random nighttime visits by the vampire NPC's or seeing them walk past the house of a night time. My jaw hit my desk when I found out that people were lumping the walk-by's and random NPC visits into the "break-in" function, I was just in absolute shock that people were getting in a tizzy over a basic NPC function, that EVERY SINGLE NPC uses in the game.
Don't get me wrong, I was happy that my game wasn't broken, but man, I was shocked, to say the least.
I would really like more abilities/spells for merfolk and aliens too. For ghosts as well.
Except that I would have to switch every lot in my game as a "challenge" just to have Vampires behave as intended from their own pack. I play over 200 Sims (and growing).
I also don't consider Vampire attacks "negative" gameplay, just unpredictable and exciting and that's how I like it. Everything else in Sims 4 is so predictable and positivity driven, which just isn't interesting to me. Making the attacks a challenge takes that unpredictability away because the player can, once again, predict what's going to happen, and then you know it ends up happening every. single. night. over and over on a cycle. That's not fun either.
The Vampires pack was created to bring a little darkness and spice to the game. It was intended to have random Vampire break-ins and many players were very excited for it. We wanted it. Why then, should the pack be compromised for players who didn't even want the Vampires in the first place? That doesn't make sense. It's the people who don't like it but bought it anyway who should be finding the work-around.
It would be like if I bought Parenthood for the CAS stuff and then complained that toddlers, kids and teens were acting out too much so then devs nerfed the autonomy and suddenly players had to specifically direct their kids to do something "bad". Oh, hey, why don't we just make that "negative autonomy" a lot challenge instead for the people who wanted parenting in a Parenthood pack?
See what I'm saying? These aren't EPs. I do expect a bit of compromise in an EP because it's supposed to cater to a broader player base. But a GP is a very focused theme with niche gameplay for specific player types. They should not be compromised.
Couldn't agree with you more. The people wanting to play with the packs main features shouldn't be the one's having to go through every lot in the world to change it's status. If they go this way then at the very least the pack should automatically add that challenge to every single lot in the game.
I'm so tired of us Occult Players being accommodating and trying to make compromise suggestions.
Lets make this a reality!
I, myself play with occult sims regularly, though I prefer to get them through gameplay (marrying in, having kids, turning etc) rather than CAS most of the time. I also play with non-occult lot challenges in every household as standard, as long as it makes sense there.
All it would need is a global toggle in Options to apply the lot challenge globally, or disable it globally as default.
As I usually go in and add Simple Living and Reduce & Recycle to every single household as standard (for everyday challenge), adding the occult related ones aren't an issue for me personally. You don't need to add it until you play with them anyway.
I also add appropriate challenges for each world/neighbourhood too, now that they don't take up a Lot Trait slot. Volcanic activity everywhere in Sulani. Earthquakes everywhere in Del Sol Valley. Filthy on farm/countryside lots.
I would love for alien abductions to be based on lot, rather than activities, so even sims who aren't science minded have a chance to get abducted, just because they happened to be somewhere interesting to aliens. You didn't see anything glowing in that pond. Honest...
I would love for vampires to be more likely to autonomously drink from sims on some community lots, such as those with a hidden vampire lair beneath, as well as just attack sims in their homes.
Adding these as challenges to lots doesn't mean it happens every night, it just means it happens at all. It also allows me to decide where it's appropriate, and where it isn't.
I enjoy lot challenges and "negative" gameplay and would rather they be quick and easy to apply, but also quick and easy to remove, so they don't get nerfed.
I loathed how Vampires completely overran the worlds once you installed the pack in TS2....but TS4 takes it to the other extreme, I almost never even see any of the vampires that I know are out there.
I absolutely love the idea of having them associated with Lot Challenges we could add or remove at will.
I also think they should go back to including occult lifestates in more of the packs. I recognize that it's a controversial view to have for most people who don't play with them at all, but the alternative has proven to be that people who like occults in their game are being completely shortchanged. I just don't think that's fair to that segment of the community which has been a part of this franchise since the beginning.
I'm saying this as someone who was one of the lobbiests in favor of splitting them out into their own packs "back in the day"....now that I have seen the end result of that, I have changed my mind.
The Winters family Tree --- My Mods
The alien part made me really sad, because sims who weren't science-minded used to get abducted quite a bit. Until people complained and it was nerfed, now it's perma locked to the scientist career and the satellite specific item. -_-
No way, I, and many others, don't want occult life-states to go back to being side pieces to the main packs. We've seen what happens, mermaids for example are extremely underdeveloped and are lacking in proper skill trees. Same with Aliens, they were added as an afterthought. No skill trees or anything to their names. Heck, even ghosts got this treatment and IIRC were added in a free patch after people complained that they were missing.
Adding occults in their own special packs, is the best solution IMHO and the only way they can have the time and effort given to them so they can have proper gameplay. The people who buy the occult packs for the "stuff" and not the main focus only have themselves to blame, not the occult.
That’s fair enough and makes sense, especially for GPs and smaller packs.
Unfortunately it’s the folks who are not very creative and intuitive that complain about these features. They do not possess the ability to think for themselves nor find work arounds, so they head straight for the manager’s office. These people decide to buy an item they don’t necessarily care for without considering the consequences of having such item, then make a fuss about it actually working as intended.
The problem is that often times these are also the people who get their way. They would rather instigate drama to get what THEY want instead of going through a few simple steps to make it work for themselves without having restrictions imposed on others.
And so here’s the manager’s response:
“Oh for god’s sake just do what they ask for as long as they shut up.”
Now it’s up for debate whether or not that particular manager should be a manager in the first place. 😅
It’s also like those people who decided to adopt a cute little puppy, then rage about never being able to go anywhere because of the DOG. “OMG I bought it to carry it around in my hand bag but it’s misbehaving and I don’t have TIME to bring it to puppy school or train it!! MY LIFE’S A MESS!! OMG MY BAG IS TOO!!!”
I believe I’ve just entered vent mode and it’s making me grumpy. I apologize. I need to de- grumpify now.
Yes it is all quite mind boggling come to think of it and no, we shouldn’t constantly have to compromise.
Yet here we are, trying to find ways to make new occult packs work for those who don’t even want occults, without a single new occult in sight. At this point we all sound like a broken record in an echo chamber. At least I do. I feel a tad sad for us.
Be realistic, you were never going to get a pack dedicated to just mermaids. The choices were having them in a pack with other things or not having them at all for that particular lifestate. Which is the point I was making. For some lifestates, putting them in other packs is the way to go, because the alternative is not getting them at all.
At least once they add them to the game in the first place, even if they do a subpar job, it's an easier task for modders to make them better.
The Winters family Tree --- My Mods
I also feel really sad for that metaphorical misbehaving puppy in the handbag. 😭
I get that, but the result is that the life-states will always end up half-baked and underdeveloped, either have a separate dev team work on said lifestate or give it it's own pack.
We as players shouldn't have to rely on mods or modders either, moding should be for fun, not to fix a game the gurus/devs should be fixing. This goes for all studios, not just EA/Maxis.
Aw. That’s because you care. ❤️
The metaphorical person carrying that metaphorical puppy in their metaphorical handbag doesn’t.
Not about the puppy anyway.
Still, I could think of worse ways to implement restriction than lot challenges, like nerfing things almost out of existence.
Grump away. Several foot of snow on the ground and at least another seven or eight weeks until I can get outside and get seeds in the ground. I'm going insane indoors. A bug free fleshed out Occult pack would've calmed the howling monster I'm becoming
You need a conservatory or greenhouse like your sims have
I personally want a bowling league with team Were and team Vamp bowling against each other then getting into fights at the local bowling alley!
I don't know why, but I've always wanted to do this in game since Vampires was released.
Occult Sims are Sims too!
#occultsimrepresentation
#NoHellhoundLeftBehind
Yes. Dream home decorator was the first Game Pack that I skipped. I am uninterested in weddings but the world looks interesting. When there is a pack with gameplay that I enjoy available I will probably get it but I will not go online and check all my mods and CC just for a new map. Hope we will get a interesting new occult soon, and that it will get it's own pack. Mermaids and aliens are fun to have in my game but there is a huge difference between the states that came as side-dishes in large packs or Vampires or Spellcasters.
I hope that it will come sometime soon