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Rose's Eyes Mafia (Mafia Win)

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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    I'm here. Been out most of the day and still got nothing done except reconnect with some old friends.

    Nushnushganay Thanks for letting everyone know I'm a dude.🤣 Has anyone really met a female that was this weird???

    xLunaSimsx I'm sorry I suspected you. I'll make better judgements once I know everyone better.

    I'm not going to vote yet because I'm not getting any red flags. I considered DeKay just because no one has said much about her except that she didn't seem suspect. Which may or may not mean anything.
    Nush isn't acting any different then normal so I can't say him with any certainty either.
    I don't know anyone else that well so I'll have to keep digging.

    I need to take my mom to the store but will be back in 2 1/2 hours, max.

    I think so far, Mouse and Nush are kinda wishy washy about it but kinda leaning me to town? If I'm understanding them properly. Haha. Maybe if they were mafia, they don't want to get on my bad side?

    You know I love your bad side the best! 😘🤣 so you really think Mouse is townish, huh? Hmm. Bit that would mean if it's not you, me, or Mouse, it would be Goof and Bella. If it is, they're doing a great job.

    Justa_G00f women can be just as zany and interesting as you are. Not often, but not often men either or people generally. The Tribe Of Gonzo doesn't discriminate. 😁

    So Bella, you here? Anything to share?

    Justa had no visitors last night.

    I sat, all night long, with my spy glasses, and watched his house. But alas, no one, not Luna (the town tracker) or a mafia member, came to visit him.

    That is what I have to share.

    Will this information put a giant mafia target on my back? Yeah, but I'm being thrown to the wolves right now anyways, so what chances of survival do I have? :sweat_smile:

    What is a visitor? Am I missing another thread to check on people or something? I was going to vote but will wait to find out what you mean.

    Bella means she's the watcher and spied on you at night to see if anyone visited you.
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
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    Justa_G00fJusta_G00f Posts: 1,075 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    I'm here. Been out most of the day and still got nothing done except reconnect with some old friends.

    Nushnushganay Thanks for letting everyone know I'm a dude.🤣 Has anyone really met a female that was this weird???

    xLunaSimsx I'm sorry I suspected you. I'll make better judgements once I know everyone better.

    I'm not going to vote yet because I'm not getting any red flags. I considered DeKay just because no one has said much about her except that she didn't seem suspect. Which may or may not mean anything.
    Nush isn't acting any different then normal so I can't say him with any certainty either.
    I don't know anyone else that well so I'll have to keep digging.

    I need to take my mom to the store but will be back in 2 1/2 hours, max.

    I think so far, Mouse and Nush are kinda wishy washy about it but kinda leaning me to town? If I'm understanding them properly. Haha. Maybe if they were mafia, they don't want to get on my bad side?

    You know I love your bad side the best! 😘🤣 so you really think Mouse is townish, huh? Hmm. Bit that would mean if it's not you, me, or Mouse, it would be Goof and Bella. If it is, they're doing a great job.

    Justa_G00f women can be just as zany and interesting as you are. Not often, but not often men either or people generally. The Tribe Of Gonzo doesn't discriminate. 😁

    So Bella, you here? Anything to share?

    Justa had no visitors last night.

    I sat, all night long, with my spy glasses, and watched his house. But alas, no one, not Luna (the town tracker) or a mafia member, came to visit him.

    That is what I have to share.

    Will this information put a giant mafia target on my back? Yeah, but I'm being thrown to the wolves right now anyways, so what chances of survival do I have? :sweat_smile:

    What is a visitor? Am I missing another thread to check on people or something? I was going to vote but will wait to find out what you mean.

    Bella means she's the watcher and spied on you at night to see if anyone visited you.

    But how do you do that? I didn't know people could visit me. Is this just for the game or the whole forum?
    How your Sims builds show your meds' effectiveness

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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    Vote: Nush

    Nush/Justa at this point. Nush has been like "if it's not you or them, or this and that, then it's them and them," and kinda just going with the flow. I'm leaning more towards a Nush and Justa team unless that's some good acting between Mouse and Nush going against each other, which I'm totally not ruling out since it's still early in the day.
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Vote: Nush

    Nush/Justa at this point. Nush has been like "if it's not you or them, or this and that, then it's them and them," and kinda just going with the flow. I'm leaning more towards a Nush and Justa team unless that's some good acting between Mouse and Nush going against each other, which I'm totally not ruling out since it's still early in the day.

    *I think it's Nush/Justa at this point
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    I'm here. Been out most of the day and still got nothing done except reconnect with some old friends.

    Nushnushganay Thanks for letting everyone know I'm a dude.🤣 Has anyone really met a female that was this weird???

    xLunaSimsx I'm sorry I suspected you. I'll make better judgements once I know everyone better.

    I'm not going to vote yet because I'm not getting any red flags. I considered DeKay just because no one has said much about her except that she didn't seem suspect. Which may or may not mean anything.
    Nush isn't acting any different then normal so I can't say him with any certainty either.
    I don't know anyone else that well so I'll have to keep digging.

    I need to take my mom to the store but will be back in 2 1/2 hours, max.

    I think so far, Mouse and Nush are kinda wishy washy about it but kinda leaning me to town? If I'm understanding them properly. Haha. Maybe if they were mafia, they don't want to get on my bad side?

    You know I love your bad side the best! 😘🤣 so you really think Mouse is townish, huh? Hmm. Bit that would mean if it's not you, me, or Mouse, it would be Goof and Bella. If it is, they're doing a great job.

    Justa_G00f women can be just as zany and interesting as you are. Not often, but not often men either or people generally. The Tribe Of Gonzo doesn't discriminate. 😁

    So Bella, you here? Anything to share?

    Justa had no visitors last night.

    I sat, all night long, with my spy glasses, and watched his house. But alas, no one, not Luna (the town tracker) or a mafia member, came to visit him.

    That is what I have to share.

    Will this information put a giant mafia target on my back? Yeah, but I'm being thrown to the wolves right now anyways, so what chances of survival do I have? :sweat_smile:

    What is a visitor? Am I missing another thread to check on people or something? I was going to vote but will wait to find out what you mean.

    Bella means she's the watcher and spied on you at night to see if anyone visited you.

    But how do you do that? I didn't know people could visit me. Is this just for the game or the whole forum?

    It's the game.
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
    x3vZicL.gif
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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    Justa, if you can give your opinion on Mouse and Nush, that would be helpful. (Or your opinion on me too if you want but I'm more interested in knowing what you think of Mouse and Nush. LOL.)
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
    x3vZicL.gif
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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    I'm here. Been out most of the day and still got nothing done except reconnect with some old friends.

    Nushnushganay Thanks for letting everyone know I'm a dude.🤣 Has anyone really met a female that was this weird???

    xLunaSimsx I'm sorry I suspected you. I'll make better judgements once I know everyone better.

    I'm not going to vote yet because I'm not getting any red flags. I considered DeKay just because no one has said much about her except that she didn't seem suspect. Which may or may not mean anything.
    Nush isn't acting any different then normal so I can't say him with any certainty either.
    I don't know anyone else that well so I'll have to keep digging.

    I need to take my mom to the store but will be back in 2 1/2 hours, max.

    I think so far, Mouse and Nush are kinda wishy washy about it but kinda leaning me to town? If I'm understanding them properly. Haha. Maybe if they were mafia, they don't want to get on my bad side?

    You know I love your bad side the best! 😘🤣 so you really think Mouse is townish, huh? Hmm. Bit that would mean if it's not you, me, or Mouse, it would be Goof and Bella. If it is, they're doing a great job.

    Justa_G00f women can be just as zany and interesting as you are. Not often, but not often men either or people generally. The Tribe Of Gonzo doesn't discriminate. 😁

    So Bella, you here? Anything to share?

    Justa had no visitors last night.

    I sat, all night long, with my spy glasses, and watched his house. But alas, no one, not Luna (the town tracker) or a mafia member, came to visit him.

    That is what I have to share.

    Will this information put a giant mafia target on my back? Yeah, but I'm being thrown to the wolves right now anyways, so what chances of survival do I have? :sweat_smile:

    What is a visitor? Am I missing another thread to check on people or something? I was going to vote but will wait to find out what you mean.

    Bella means she's the watcher and spied on you at night to see if anyone visited you.

    But how do you do that? I didn't know people could visit me. Is this just for the game or the whole forum?

    It's the game.

    By the way, maybe I didn't explain this clearly. But when you're being visited by someone at night, it just means like someone is performing an action on you, and that also includes a nightkill. So with the info Bella has given, it means no one tried to kill you, and Luna didn't track you, and mafia didn't roleblock you last night. Hope that makes sense.
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
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    TheRoseHorseTheRoseHorse Posts: 7,300 Member
    Vote Count:
    Justa (1)- Mouse
    Mouse (1)- Nush
    Nush (1)- Dekay

    Day 2 ends in about 15 1/2 hrs.
    Even the Most Beautiful Rose has been through the Dirt
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    Justa_G00fJusta_G00f Posts: 1,075 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa, if you can give your opinion on Mouse and Nush, that would be helpful. (Or your opinion on me too if you want but I'm more interested in knowing what you think of Mouse and Nush. LOL.)

    Dekay, I'm really not picking anything up on you either way. You might have a good "poker face" or just a lot of mafia experience to help hide but I can't tell.

    Someone mentioned that @Nushnushganay wouldn't help me if he was mafia which I guess makes sense so, I don't think he's one.

    @Mouselline seemed like she was getting a little defensive but trying to read emotion rarely leads me to accuracy so maybe...

    @bellagorilla said I had no visitors so I'll assume that's a good thing and don't know why mafia would vouch for me (if that's what she was doing) so, I doubt her, for now.

    I was wrong about Luna so who knows if I'm even good at this game, at this point. I'll need until tomorrow to vote.
    How your Sims builds show your meds' effectiveness

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    Justa_G00fJusta_G00f Posts: 1,075 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    I'm here. Been out most of the day and still got nothing done except reconnect with some old friends.

    Nushnushganay Thanks for letting everyone know I'm a dude.🤣 Has anyone really met a female that was this weird???

    xLunaSimsx I'm sorry I suspected you. I'll make better judgements once I know everyone better.

    I'm not going to vote yet because I'm not getting any red flags. I considered DeKay just because no one has said much about her except that she didn't seem suspect. Which may or may not mean anything.
    Nush isn't acting any different then normal so I can't say him with any certainty either.
    I don't know anyone else that well so I'll have to keep digging.

    I need to take my mom to the store but will be back in 2 1/2 hours, max.

    I think so far, Mouse and Nush are kinda wishy washy about it but kinda leaning me to town? If I'm understanding them properly. Haha. Maybe if they were mafia, they don't want to get on my bad side?

    You know I love your bad side the best! 😘🤣 so you really think Mouse is townish, huh? Hmm. Bit that would mean if it's not you, me, or Mouse, it would be Goof and Bella. If it is, they're doing a great job.

    @Justa_G00f women can be just as zany and interesting as you are. Not often, but not often men either or people generally. The Tribe Of Gonzo doesn't discriminate. 😁

    So Bella, you here? Anything to share?


    That was actually a self deprecating joke.
    How your Sims builds show your meds' effectiveness

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    Ok caught up. I think it's Mouse and a partner. If we believe Bella, and I kinda do, and I also believe Goof, that basically leaves Dekay. I'm not getting the sense that it's Dekay as I have a few times before, when she was, but she's not a mafia champion for nothing, either.

    I've ruled out Goof. I'm a VT. I think Bella is telling the truth, though one little thing: how does not being visited mean someone is not mafia? Do watchers see the nightly mafia chat as a visit? If so, that makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Can anyone tell me which it is?

    So if Bella is honest and the watcher, she will be killed next, unless possibly the mafia kills someone else to create confusion over Bella perhaps still being mafia. That's a risky possibility because if she survives the night, her intel could be the end of the mafia in this game.

    I'm keeping my vote on Mouse for now.

    In order from most sus to least by POE:

    Mouse
    Dekay
    Goof
    Bella
    Me (because I know my role is VT)

    What are everyone else's lists?
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    If Bella could explain why she chose to watch Goof rather than Dekay or me or anyone else, that would help. Also if she's lying, now would be a good time for the real watcher to come forward. If no one counterclaims then Bella can most likely be trusted.
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

    xicwqMCm.jpg
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    DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,665 Member
    Ok caught up. I think it's Mouse and a partner. If we believe Bella, and I kinda do, and I also believe Goof, that basically leaves Dekay. I'm not getting the sense that it's Dekay as I have a few times before, when she was, but she's not a mafia champion for nothing, either.

    I've ruled out Goof. I'm a VT. I think Bella is telling the truth, though one little thing: how does not being visited mean someone is not mafia? Do watchers see the nightly mafia chat as a visit? If so, that makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Can anyone tell me which it is?

    (...)

    I think Bella meant that it doesn't rule out Justa to not be mafia since he wasn't visited.

    I.e, a person who is not visited can still be either a mafia or town.

    Watchers don't see the nightly chat as a visit. They can only see if someone had performed an action on the person they are watching, but they won't know what that action is.
    My Top Song of the Day: Innocence by Avril Lavigne
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    bellagorillabellagorilla Posts: 6,891 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Ok caught up. I think it's Mouse and a partner. If we believe Bella, and I kinda do, and I also believe Goof, that basically leaves Dekay. I'm not getting the sense that it's Dekay as I have a few times before, when she was, but she's not a mafia champion for nothing, either.

    I've ruled out Goof. I'm a VT. I think Bella is telling the truth, though one little thing: how does not being visited mean someone is not mafia? Do watchers see the nightly mafia chat as a visit? If so, that makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Can anyone tell me which it is?

    (...)

    I think Bella meant that it doesn't rule out Justa to not be mafia since he wasn't visited.

    I.e, a person who is not visited can still be either a mafia or town.

    Watchers don't see the nightly chat as a visit. They can only see if someone had performed an action on the person they are watching, but they won't know what that action is.

    Mhm, I simply get a result from the host. A peek into the mafia chat would tell me who the mafia members are 😅 a bit op if you ask me.

    I also know that I was not roleblocked, since I did receive a result. But like I said before, just because Justa was not visited, does not rule out the possibility that he visited someone...
    7dW3gu7.gif
    Most likely caught as scum and best theme-Google Translate, 4th annual Scummies win!
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    bellagorillabellagorilla Posts: 6,891 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Ok caught up. I think it's Mouse and a partner. If we believe Bella, and I kinda do, and I also believe Goof, that basically leaves Dekay. I'm not getting the sense that it's Dekay as I have a few times before, when she was, but she's not a mafia champion for nothing, either.

    I've ruled out Goof. I'm a VT. I think Bella is telling the truth, though one little thing: how does not being visited mean someone is not mafia? Do watchers see the nightly mafia chat as a visit? If so, that makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Can anyone tell me which it is?

    (...)

    I think Bella meant that it doesn't rule out Justa to not be mafia since he wasn't visited.

    I.e, a person who is not visited can still be either a mafia or town.

    Watchers don't see the nightly chat as a visit. They can only see if someone had performed an action on the person they are watching, but they won't know what that action is.

    Mhm, I simply get a result from the host. A peek into the mafia chat would tell me who the mafia members are 😅 a bit op if you ask me.

    I also know that I was not roleblocked, since I did receive a result. But like I said before, just because Justa was not visited, does not rule out the possibility that he visited someone...

    Luna, as the tracker, would've been the one to tell you such information as "he left his house last night!" but alas, we did not get to hear what Intel she gathered 😔
    7dW3gu7.gif
    Most likely caught as scum and best theme-Google Translate, 4th annual Scummies win!
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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    Ok caught up. I think it's Mouse and a partner. If we believe Bella, and I kinda do, and I also believe Goof, that basically leaves Dekay. I'm not getting the sense that it's Dekay as I have a few times before, when she was, but she's not a mafia champion for nothing, either.

    I've ruled out Goof. I'm a VT. I think Bella is telling the truth, though one little thing: how does not being visited mean someone is not mafia? Do watchers see the nightly mafia chat as a visit? If so, that makes sense. If not, it doesn't. Can anyone tell me which it is?

    (...)

    I think Bella meant that it doesn't rule out Justa to not be mafia since he wasn't visited.

    I.e, a person who is not visited can still be either a mafia or town.

    Watchers don't see the nightly chat as a visit. They can only see if someone had performed an action on the person they are watching, but they won't know what that action is.

    Mhm, I simply get a result from the host. A peek into the mafia chat would tell me who the mafia members are 😅 a bit op if you ask me.

    I also know that I was not roleblocked, since I did receive a result. But like I said before, just because Justa was not visited, does not rule out the possibility that he visited someone...

    He doesn't even know how any of that works.
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member

    Ummmm as for suspicions...

    DeKay and her constant mistrust has me questioning if she isn't one of the mafia?
    Nush agreeing with her also...hmm, Idk.

    ]Justa had no visitor, yet might still be mafia.
    Mouse may also be mafia. Hmm.

    Have I missed anyone? :sweat_smile:

    It's getting late, so my brain isn't working all that well. I shall review in the morning. Oyasumi~

    No, Dekay. Your comment that Bella could have meant that because Justa wasn't visited, means he wasn't mafia, isn't based on what she actually said. Uncharacteristically sloppy of you. 🤔
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    Justa_G00fJusta_G00f Posts: 1,075 Member
    Ok so, do these actions happen through requests (messages) with the moderator (Rose)? At first I thought it was something more "mechanical", for lack of a better term. And, based on what was said today, I'm guessing the mob "visits" each other through Rose, which is why we never hear input from her except for official results. And, the watcher can ask Rose if any messages have been sent. Please tell me if I have any of this correct. I can't theorize any of the other actions, though. Like, what roleblocking is.

    Knowing this stuff will help with my vote tremendously.
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    TheRoseHorseTheRoseHorse Posts: 7,300 Member
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    Ok so, do these actions happen through requests (messages) with the moderator (Rose)? At first I thought it was something more "mechanical", for lack of a better term. And, based on what was said today, I'm guessing the mob "visits" each other through Rose, which is why we never hear input from her except for official results. And, the watcher can ask Rose if any messages have been sent. Please tell me if I have any of this correct. I can't theorize any of the other actions, though. Like, what roleblocking is.

    Knowing this stuff will help with my vote tremendously.

    So the Mafia have a kill that they can do at night, the mafia roleblock can prevent someone from doing their action, the town watcher can see if anyone targeted the person they targeted and the town tracker (who is out) can see who someone targeted. So during the night they just message me and I perform that action. For instance, if I was mafia goon, and I killed Sarah, I would be seen as visiting Sarah if the watcher looked at Sarah. If the tracker looked at me, they would also see that I visited Sarah. But not the other way around. I hope that helps some.
    Even the Most Beautiful Rose has been through the Dirt
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    Justa_G00fJusta_G00f Posts: 1,075 Member
    Yes it does, thank you Rose! 😎
    It seems like there's more to it but I don't know what to ask yet. Seeing people talk about it gives me enough pieces to ask about the gaps in the big picture of the game.
    I'll be back in a while, hopefully before voting time. I need to reread the thread now that I know more.
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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    Yes it does, thank you Rose! 😎
    It seems like there's more to it but I don't know what to ask yet. Seeing people talk about it gives me enough pieces to ask about the gaps in the big picture of the game.
    I'll be back in a while, hopefully before voting time. I need to reread the thread now that I know more.

    oh, just to make sure you know, it's like a tabletop RPG where Rose is the DM, so she would message someone and tell them "You see that So-and-So was visited last night." or when someone with a power tells Rose who they targeted, if they were roleblocked, she tells them that their action produced no results/was blocked.. do I have that right, Rose? Or can someone be roleblocked and not even know it?

    So all the "actions" are decisions made by players who have a power or an action they can perform, who tell Rose what they did, and she tells them what happened, in cases where they get to know.

    Other people aren't privy to any of that. It all happens in narrative, in individual private messages with Rose. I was very confused about all the "visiting" and other actions myself, in the beginning. Still am, somewhat, on how they work.

    Oh and the mafia chat is a conversation chat involving the members of the mafia (two, in this game) and Rose has access to that chat as well.

    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    So if Bella really is the Watcher (and no one else is claiming to be...so if her claim is false, the real watcher isn't doing Town any favors by not sharing their intel or showing her out as a fake), then that means she's town, and I believe JustaGoof is as well, and I know I am. Which leaves only DeKay and Mouse, yes?

    DeKay is often the player killed first in a game when she is not town, because mafia know she's an excellent scumhunter and tends to organize the townies well to root out the mafia, so she tends to be their #1 target. It's strange mafia would have chosen anyone else to axe first if she were a townie, but unless it's you, Goof, or Bella (which I doubt) it has to be DeKay and Mouse.

    So my vote still sits on Mouse, but I'd be just as comfortable voting DeKay at this point. I just don't want us to get confused and end up failing to take out one of them.
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    Meant to add: DeKay is so often killed first, due to her threat to mafia when she's not mafia, that in games where there is a protective role amongst town, like a Doctor, often whoever got that role will protect DeKay that first night just to roleblock the mafia from taking her out. We did not have a protective town role in this game. So the mafia spared DeKay because...DeKay IS mafia.
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 9,418 Member
    can't edit to add, but I was remembering the time I had a protective role and protected DeKay like 3 nights in a row...and she was mafia the whole time! LOL
    Racism is EVERYONE's fight #BLM #StopAsianHate
    Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.

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    TheRoseHorseTheRoseHorse Posts: 7,300 Member
    Justa_G00f wrote: »
    Yes it does, thank you Rose! 😎
    It seems like there's more to it but I don't know what to ask yet. Seeing people talk about it gives me enough pieces to ask about the gaps in the big picture of the game.
    I'll be back in a while, hopefully before voting time. I need to reread the thread now that I know more.

    oh, just to make sure you know, it's like a tabletop RPG where Rose is the DM, so she would message someone and tell them "You see that So-and-So was visited last night." or when someone with a power tells Rose who they targeted, if they were roleblocked, she tells them that their action produced no results/was blocked.. do I have that right, Rose? Or can someone be roleblocked and not even know it?

    The watcher and tracker will know if they were roleblocked because they will get no result. VT's will not have any way of knowing they were roleblocked.
    Even the Most Beautiful Rose has been through the Dirt
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