When is it Okay to Make Something from a Paid DLC Pack Base Game?

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Calico45Calico45 Posts: 2,038 Member
I know there have been a number of discussions around this topic generally, but I do not remember at least this question being so direct and instead the discussion focusing more on specific examples. So I do want to ask this question directly, and with a poll to organize the general responses here. When is it okay to cut content from a DLC pack and make it base game?

I tend to be a bit of a fence sitter here. It can be bad and can be good, and I usually do not mind so long as I feel that the value I "lost" was compensated for in the new improvements I received. For a long time becoming a part of the base game was the only way for a feature to really get improvements, so I suppose the existence of pack refreshes now brings a new consideration to this debate. Even in light of it, though, I think I feel fairly similarly. So long as the value is compensated for in improvements and I end up with a better game as a result, I do not think I would mind. Even less so if it was a feature that feels restricted by this DLC status.

For example, there has only ever been one feature I have played with in the Sims 4 that I have really considered to have too much potential to really be DLC locked. That is lifestyles from SE. I enjoy them, and honestly they were the thing that made me excited in the lead up to SE. However, after playing with them, I think it is pretty obvious that they are held back by lack of cross play with both older and newer packs. There are bugs, of course, but they should eventually be fixed and I imagine it would be even more likely if they were to be expanded upon. Which has yet to happen, unfortunately. I will be the first to admit that it is one of the newer packs, so maybe it will get more cross play naturally, but it has already been skipped over by an EP. I do not have high hopes for the current state, and that is more or less why I think it is a feature ripe for the plucking (and I emphasize this is the only feature I have thought this about). I suppose a pack refresh could help, but I would personally want and expect a refresh of SE to do more than just focus on the lifestyle feature. It seems to me that unless it does become a base game feature, it will remain underutilized.

But enough about my opinion, what are yours? When do you think it is okay and are there any specific examples illustrating it? If you think it is never okay, how do you think underutilized features should be dealt with? Do pack refreshes affect your opinion at all?

Edit: I added paid to the title since there was some confusion over whether or not I was talking about existing, paid DLC packs (EPs, GPs, SPs, Kits, etc.).
Post edited by Calico45 on

When is it Okay to Make Something from a Paid DLC Pack Base Game? 136 votes

It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
19%
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It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
14%
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It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
22%
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It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
42%
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Comments

  • OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,266 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    Depends entirely on what it is (and also if I've bought them lol. Don't need to waste money on the hot tub pack anymore!), but I had no issue at all with the calendar being made base game
  • Admiral8QAdmiral8Q Posts: 2,909 Member
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.

    Your question and commentary is vague. Give examples.
    I think in my opinion that putting ladders, or ponds into "base game" and bunk beds, etc, is a smart move.
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  • Calico45Calico45 Posts: 2,038 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
    Admiral8Q wrote: »
    Your question and commentary is vague. Give examples.
    I think in my opinion that putting ladders, or ponds into "base game" and bunk beds, etc, is a smart move.

    I am talking about already existing DLC content. Ponds and bunk beds were new to 4 when introduced to the base game. I doubt anyone is completely against the idea of new content being added to the base game.

    The contention comes in when something already in a DLC is made no longer exclusive to a DLC. For example hot tubs, the calendar, the photography skill, etc.

    Edit: I added "Paid" to the title since you said it was not obvious.
  • crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 5,487 Member
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
    I don't really mind if they make some stuff base game. But there should be some expanded gameplay added to it, to make it worthwhile for long time players who have bought the pack as well.
  • DoloresGreyDoloresGrey Posts: 3,376 Member
    It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
    It's okay but I think it's been happening often. It should be rare.

    Like lets say the DU hair being base game now. They could have tweaked the "dread braids" a little on to the side, make it look a little bit messy. Baaaam - new hairstyle from old hair.

    If they are going to add DLC stuff to the base game they should add new swatches and/or tiny little tweaks to make it look a bit less DLC so simmers who bought that DLC don't feel like wasting their money and basically paying for other simmers' stuff, if you know what I mean. You pay for something to have in YOUR game and then others get the same exact thing for free. If they change it a tiny little bit it could feel less wasteful. If only for one person :D
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  • Admiral8QAdmiral8Q Posts: 2,909 Member
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
    Calico45 wrote: »
    Admiral8Q wrote: »
    Your question and commentary is vague. Give examples.
    I think in my opinion that putting ladders, or ponds into "base game" and bunk beds, etc, is a smart move.

    I am talking about already existing DLC content. Ponds and bunk beds were new to 4 when introduced to the base game. I doubt anyone is completely against the idea of new content being added to the base game.

    The contention comes in when something already in a DLC is made no longer exclusive to a DLC. For example hot tubs, the calendar, the photography skill, etc.

    Edit: I added "Paid" to the title since you said it was not obvious.

    I can't un-vote.
    Or I may change my vote to the 4th option.

    Hut tubs? Only the holiday freebie is available without the pack, (Honestly I like the pack hot-tub better, but that's irrelevant)
    The calendar? Is that base-game now? I practically never use it. Though with "Seasons" I enjoy and sometimes get annoyed at event pop-ups. If so, I can see why it was made "base-game". I actually bought the pack with the hot-tub after the "freebie" hot-tub was released. There are many other things in that pack.

    Photography skill. Heck, I think that should be base game. It was Moschino pack that originally had it (I bought the pack hoping for better in-game photography. For the tripod. Never worked :( ) There are many other things in that pack though that are cool.

    To sum up:
    -Hot tub? Sure.
    -Calendar? Why not. If you're going to buy "Seasons" ONLY fro the calendar, then don't buy it. :D
    -Photography skill? Sure.
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  • RavenSpitRavenSpit Posts: 1,333 Member
    It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
    I am pretty much on the same page as you, there are certaine features where I get it, as becoming base game opens them up to be added upon by dlc and basegame updates (like the calendar), I agree that lifestyles would be great for this too (SE lifestyles, or at least the majority of them, could still remain SE exclusive).

    There are other things, especially recolors of CAS/BB and gameplayobjects where I dont get it...like adding the top that was originally from GF in different colors to the basegame, I dont understand why that was done at all, I mean it was just one top so I dont feel robbed or anything, it just came of as lazy and unnecessary to me.
    The hot tub was worse, since it was the champion object of a stuff pack and some people might have bought the stuff pack just because of it...that seemed very unfair.

    But I have noticed them now adding new features and new objects simultaniously to a pack and the base game, like the bunk beds, ladders and likes/dislikes (also the upcoming addition of fingernails).
    So we know upfront that we get the kind of feature/object for free but have to get the pack for a certain style or part of the feature.
    That to me is more genuine and fair.
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  • VeeDubVeeDub Posts: 1,862 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    Really, I don't have a problem with reverting anything but a DLC's original main features to base game after the game itself has been around for a few years already. I feel this way about Sims 4 and every other game I play or have played or will play, and it doesn't matter to me whether or not I've already bought the DLC in question.
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  • sourapfelsourapfel Posts: 18 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    I'm not against DLC exclusive content getting patched in later for all players, buuut. What we have to take into consideration is that with how slim in content TS4 packs are, whatever they decide to patch in will always kind of feel like robbery. Putting it aside that hot tub shouldn't have been a part of any DLC, it was literally the only reason most people bought that one stuff pack. There wasn't much else to it. Should the hot tub be in some pack along many other objects, I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash. It's more of an issue with the way this game is structured.
  • DaraviDaravi Posts: 1,038 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    I'm divided. When I'm thinking of seasons, in my opinion seasons should been in base game since the beginning and not be money grab in form of a dlc. But however, we have got it already in a dlc, which I have bought, now I would be very annoyed and angry if it comes for free in the base game.
  • logionlogion Posts: 4,345 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
    This is probably how I feel, I'm okay with them taking a feature from a pack and making it free if they develop it and improve it and add more features to it that would not have been possible if that feature was not base game.

    For example the calendar from Seasons, they made it base game and they added more events to it.

    But if they take a feature from a pack and don't develop it or improve it then I feel that there was not much point in doing it, very little was gained from it except that people that don't have the pack got a small feature added to the base game.

  • SimmingalSimmingal Posts: 6,210 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is sometimes okay to make the DLC content base game, so long as the value we get back is greater or equal to what we lost.
    between this and last choice.

    for example: I would not be against hot tubs in base game if they simultaneously added more stuff to patio pack so it isn't only about hot tubs and hot tubs only

    and/or gave new hot tubs for patio pack as well like say in ground ones or something

    but as it is now i do feel rather salty having to get patio pack just to remove annoying roof off my hot tub

    and i really don't understand why they have to put hairstyles in eps only to later yeet them to base game like dang it thats one object more you could have added for the pack

    maybe the new pack refresh thing could balance it out if they do it properly so there is still hope though

    + It is just kind of sad for people who own the packs to not get new content 90% of time they advertise they put new content in base game cause its something they already have like aw come on we want something new too

    which is why i am very happy about pack refresh idea
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,496 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
    I stand alone. It is never ok in my opinion. Let's do some examples. Like weather, what if you paid the $40 for weather but then it became available in the base game for those who didn't buy Seasons? Or do you mean some cheap pack like a Kit where people might not mind? How about if the ice cream maker in Cool Kitchen ($10) for hardly any cabinet choices, became a base game object for those who got TS4 for free on a weekend. People actually bought the stuff pack for the ice cream maker not the cabinets which were not even worth the $10.00 since hardly any choices and matches. What if the pet maker became part of the base game and then what is left in the pet pack? A world? Is that ok? Or the vet career and pets to treat were base game give aways, what about that $40 you spent to get all that?

    Why even pay money but just wait until the game one day adds the feature to the base if it is ok. What would be the point of Backyard stuff if they gave a way the hot tub, (and they did) it was the reason people spent money on the stuff pack. What if restaurants were added to the base for free this year what was the point of buying DO? The calendar in Seasons is one of the main features if people don't know it. It is the whole purpose of Seasons and holidays. They gave it away for nothing to those who some got the base for free or $5.00 and never paid as much as their long time customers.
    It's not a big deal to some because they don't understand why it was even in a seasons pack but it is a main feature given away to those who probably won't use it.

    No, it cheapens the packs you did buy and in more ways than one.
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  • Pamtastic72Pamtastic72 Posts: 4,531 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    So far I’m not at all sorry about what they have added to base game since most of it wasn’t an integral part of the dlc it came in. The calendar can only benefit from being base game because now they can expand it to touch on other packs same with photography and I agree with op about sentiments. None of these were key pack features either. Active careers were the key feature for Get To Work, weather and the seasons were the key feature for Seasons and winter sports was the key feature for Snowy Escape. The hot tub however is different in that it was the only gameplay feature in Perfect Patio - but on the other hand it was only a stuff pack, & it’s ages old, and so was that big of a deal at the time they did that? In my opinion, meh 🤷🏻‍♀️ not really.
  • Olalla1986Olalla1986 Posts: 195 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
    It never sits right with me when features from paid DLC are being added to the base game. Not that I don’t want base game players to have something new added, but because it’s absolutely ridiculous to agree with this practice. These things should be planned ahead which features are going to be paid (weather) and which features are going to the base game (calendar). I will never cheer the practice of getting back to features from old DLCs and adding them today for free. Frankly, it doesn’t matter if I use the free added feature or not, the fact is only one. I paid for the whole thing and a piece of it is now free for everyone which makes me look like a fool for paying full price in the first place.
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,081 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    When it should have been in the base game to start with.
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  • PreCiiousPreCiious Posts: 353 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
    Deleted.


    Post edited by PreCiious on
  • GalacticGalGalacticGal Posts: 22,268 Member
    I'm not bothered if they make some items Base Game. For instance, I chose not to purchase Eco Living, but they made ladders Base Game, which is the only thing of value I wanted from that pack. This allows me to make the choice, based on what the pack itself, gives.
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  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 5,622 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
    Well, looking at the end-user license agreement, it's pretty clear that Maxis/EA reserve the right to make changes that they feel are for the best, and we have agreed to abide by that.

    The way I see it, if I buy a pack because it has, say, a cool bar I like that some time down the line gets added to the base game for free, I am not losing anything, and what I had by purchasing that pack when I did was early access to it.

    I do believe that some premium items, offered as a special incentive, ought to remain exclusive. But if Maxis/EA decide differently, I can disagree, but not object.

    Obviously, they would (being a commercial enterprise) prefer to sell content than to give it away. I am sure that when items become available as base-game, there is a rationale behind it.

    I also know that it was only an offer too good to refuse - namely, the base game for free - that finally got me to migrate from TS3 to give 4 a chance. I have in fact spent money that I otherwise would not have since.

    Also:
    Daravi wrote: »
    When I'm thinking of seasons, in my opinion seasons should been in base game since the beginning and not be money grab in form of a dlc.

    But here's the thing: I don't want Seasons. I don't want hot weather, or cold weather, or holidays inserting themselves. I have not bought that pack. I literally would not want those features if I can avoid them. It may be wildly popular. But that doesn't make it universally desirable. And if it is popular, it makes sense to sell that option.

    The calendar appearing in my game has not unduly intruded - I mind it less than festival announcements for San Myshuno and Mt. Komorebi, which I very much wish I could disable. But I am glad not to have Seasons features, just as I am glad I can purchase Realm of Magic, and not have Vampires. I like to be selective in my content.
  • BabykittyjadeBabykittyjade Posts: 4,363 Member
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
    Personally this is not something I have a problem with. I pay for things I want when I want it to have fun with it at that time. Do I care if it comes out free two years later? No.
    It seems like a really selfish take imo.
    I paid for this exclusive item no one can ever have for free cause it's all mine forever and ever unless you pay too!😈
    I mean someone else getting something for free I paid for does not effect me or my game in any way, shape or form. What changes for me? Infact I feel happy if someone got something for free their happiness brings me joy. Often times I learned you don't need to be entitled to something to feel happiness within yourself. You feel that through the joy and happiness of others😀 so anything, any little thing at all that can bring "more" to others. Or "joy" to others is something I look foward to and welcome. In this case making something DLC basegame.

    Plus I also feel certain things just has to be moved to badegame in order for the packs to flow together smoothly like the calendar for example. It was impossible for devs to predict 7 years of future dlc and how it should all work together. It's not until later they realize they need something to be basegame. So I think they should do whatever they need to do to keep making this game awesome 👌
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  • carpe_diemcarpe_diem Posts: 280 Member
    edited September 2021
    It is always okay to make DLC content base game; we do not lose anything either way.
    I pay for a pack, have fun playing with it, 1+ yrs later some of the content is expanded/improved and included in BG. IMO: That’s sounds great! I benefit from it because half done systems (Lifestyles! NAPs!) can get improved.

    And also, EA are doing these packs without us customers knowing, players reviews & request reach them after the release, and they often not fix things afterwards (which is a bit frustrating!). Including system to BG (to improve them on players requests) / refreshes on packs are very welcome from my side.
    Post edited by carpe_diem on
  • Paigeisin5Paigeisin5 Posts: 1,944 Member
    It depends on the DLC content; somethings should have always been base game/would have been better there and others should have always been DLC exclusive.
    I was a bit peeved when the teams began to include content from DLC in updates to the base game. But then I remembered how sparse and unfinished the base game felt when it was released, and how upset a lot of us were about that. If the base game updates include improvements for the content we paid for then I don't mind who benefits from the base game getting a boost with a few random game play assets and features. And the more they go back and refresh older packs, the more we'll benefit when the refresh updates are free for everyone. And that's especially true when you stop and consider how many hours you've played certain packs. I know I have gotten my money's worth, and more, from Spa Day, and I see no harm in sharing a few features with players who didn't buy the pack. It's actually a very good marketing strategy that will convince some people to buy the pack. Plus, don't forget about everything we're getting for free. Spa Day will feel almost like a new pack with all the new improvements.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,794 Member
    While EA/Maxis may make changes to how they deliver their product and some may view it as shady depending on what they are giving whether it was an feature that one had to pay and now that same feature will be free and those who get it while it is free now look at it as unfair. However, this practice to be fair to EA/Maxis is practiced by other companies I guess it depends on the person and how they feel about it. Personally, I have no qualms about it for it is not my program. But if one feels they been slighted do have choices if this becomes an practice quite frequently Choice one- continue to buy the product Choice two- do not indulge but it is okay to express one's disappointment in this practice even though it may or may not change anything.
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  • lexibeelexibee Posts: 157 Member
    It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
    I can understand making certain systems from DLCs base game to justify (from a development/resources standpoint) reworking them. But even then I'm iffy since it's not like previous installments of the sims had trouble with pack integration of systems the way TS4 does. Like I feel like the systems should already be integrated when the game releases regardless of which packs you have. But instead they just focus on one thing and then when they want to actually make it function with other systems in the game, it requires making it base game? I just think they should have the foresight on these things as an experienced game dev company. And especially now that they're doing these refreshes, I stand by them making these packs integrated and fulfilling on their own, without having to keep making things we paid for free. It literally devalues the product.

    They also will reuse systems to justify reselling it to us (photography taken from GTW and used in Moschino now base game 🙄. Should it have always been BG? Yes. Did they sell it to us separately then later integrated it? Also Yes. That's what I'm sick of).

    But my real gripe comes from them taking BB/CAS items out of DLCs and making them BG without any changes to them whatsoever, or really basic changes that still does not justify the loss to the pack. Plus it was one thing when they did it once or twice, but they're pulling this more often now, and it comes off as lazy and cheap. I'm not upset that BG players are getting "new things", it's just that we ALL should get "new things". How does it benefit someone who has bought lots of packs to get one of the items they paid for put into BG, without gaining anything? It's a loss. Or at the very least neutral. Like... okay....

    How hard is it to just make new content? Especially now that they're more often partnering with CC creators, so Maxis isn't even the one putting in the effort. They should do more CC creator stuff for BG, and stop taking things out of other packs for a quick and easy "content patch" that only benefits players who have financially supported the game less than the players you're taking items from.

    TLDR: The devs need to have more foresight when it comes to implementing new systems with pack integration. They need to stop taking the cheap and easy route of just taking existing items from DLC and putting them in BG. They should partner with CC creators more for BG items so EVERYONE gets something new, not just players who have spent less than the people who have already bought the items they're giving back.
  • EnchantingdustEnchantingdust Posts: 156 Member
    It is never okay to make DLC content base game; we always lose something when something is no longer exclusive to the DLC we bought.
    I think this is never ok because some people paid for these features. I think this is disrespectful to add these features to the base game afterwards.
    Of course, I would be happy to know that the base game gets updates too but I believe these updates should be different from the content people buy.
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