Count me in as someone who thinks the option to bow at a shrine should be optional. As I've said before, I have no idea why people assumed it would be automatic/forced, or even linked to Shintoism. It's all an extreme overreaction to a 3-second clip in a teaser trailer. The fact that the team just gave in and removed it in less than 24-hours is just disgraceful.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
Making it optional would be the most plausible solution to this problem. I think it's an amicable solution that both players who want to bow in front of the shrine object and those who don't want to bow in front of it will appreciate. Even if it doesn't make it to launch, it's likely to be welcomed by many players if it's announced that it will be added in a later update.
@inuman offered another solution. I'm fine with that as long as the faith of the Komorebi Sim is preserved, so the altar doesn't have to be a shrine object if it can be worshipped. The idea of a Llama Shrine sounds interesting, but creating a new object would be a burden on the development team, so I recommend using the Doso-shin objects already known to be included. Doso-shin objects might not hurt Korean users, even if they bring back worship.
I also think that religious objects should not have been included in the beginning, as they would have made the player imagine that the Sims believe in a particular real-world god. However, it would be interesting if the concept of faith was included in The Sims. It would have been great if we could have bowed to various objects, as @Gordy suggested.
I'd like to see either keeping the shrine object and making worship optional, or replacing the shrine object with another object (I recommend the Doso-shin object) and undoing the worship.
In general, I would like to see religious objects in the game, since we already have infidelity woohoo, bubble blowing, and politics (including choosing whether your Sim wants to be politically left or right). It seems weird to leave out this one large piece of human experience. Of course I would like to see them representative of many different kinds of cultures, like many things in the game.
I also don't think this situation was handled well. I respect EA for acting quickly in an attempt to be inclusive, but I feel that the end result was exclusivity and insensitivity. I agree with those who have suggested that this action should be optional.
Let's just focus on bringing back the shrine and bowing interaction (opt) that namely meant for 'Mt. Komorebi culture', which is in this case a heavily Japanese theme inspired world in itself with a rich and steeped tradition that should have been rightfully claimed in its place in the beginning.
Sorry, I was a bit off topic. I didn't mean to discuss incorporating religion into the game. Of course my main request is for the interaction between the shrine and bowing to be optional.
In general, I would like to see religious objects in the game, since we already have infidelity woohoo, bubble blowing, and politics (including choosing whether your Sim wants to be politically left or right). It seems weird to leave out this one large piece of human experience. Of course I would like to see them representative of many different kinds of cultures, like many things in the game.
I also don't think this situation was handled well. I respect EA for acting quickly in an attempt to be inclusive, but I feel that the end result was exclusivity and insensitivity. I agree with those who have suggested that this action should be optional.
I'd like to see it done in a similar way as to how it was handled in Sime Medieval, with fake religions and the choice of being agnostic.
Sorry, off-topic.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
Personally I think all faiths from all cultures should be welcomed. They can also put in an
On/Off Toggle Options for players that don't want any faiths in their game. Whatever happened to embrace Diversity?
During the livestream today, I noticed an object called "Mountain Shrine" in the Build/Buy catalogue. It looks like the shrine from the reveal trailer. I wonder if there are any interactions, or if it is purely décor. It's visible at 1:54:31 in the livestream video.
When I first heard about all this I commented on SimmerErin's video "What about the Japanese players?"
This game just needs more options across a lot of packs. If it changes the game or adds something we should should be able to tick or toggle it.
Lifestyles can be turned off and on but sentiments can't. IMO this is a big mistake as is removing the shrine. Bow at the shrine should have been optional. I believe that sometimes they move too quickly when making decisions concerning sensitive content. They should have listened to both sides and then acted with reason.
IMO ... Removing it all together just swept the controversy under a rug. Misrepresentation is still happening. By making the bow optional it would have been fair to all without any misrepresentation.
Just an idea... They even had a trait to help do it. The new proper trait could have the bow interaction attached to it. If your Sim has that trait they bow at the shrine. If not the proper trait then some other new trait.
[The school trip has begun again looking for alternatives in Kyoto, Japan]
Small themed tours, not monotonous group tours...a living study by recording a school trip note
"Losting the road is an experience, and the process of solving minor problems on a trip among the members of the group is also a valuable study."
The Education Ministry said it will resume school trips that were suspended due to the ferry Ferry Sewol accident from the 1st. Accordingly, each education office offers small-themed school trips at class or club level as an alternative to improving the safety problems and educational effects of large-scale school trips.
Last June, I was able to meet students on a free-themed school trip on a business trip to Kyoto, Japan. Even if it was different from us, I could not help but be surprised by the difference in the culture of field trips. It was a free trip for several high school students to decide where they wanted to go, as well as using public transportation.
Photo Description - Korean Students in groups traveling to Fushiminari Shrine in Kyoto
This is a national page that the Korean Ministry of Education actively promotes school trips to Japan. If Manager of this forum thinks this is about a political dispute, you can delete my comment.
I hesitated whether to post it or not, but I decided to upload it because the fact that the government actively promotes students' visits to the shrine would help resolve the current misunderstanding and a useless dispute.
I thought there would be no problem because this article is not about the conflict but about Korea and Japan are being friends each other.
Wise words my grandmother taught me... These are some of her sayings I heard frequently as a child:
"If someone reaches out to shake your hand, shake their hand. If they bow to you, bow back. Don't expect the world to follow your ways. Learn their ways instead."
"They say do unto others as you would like done unto you, but that's not always true. People may not want the same treatment as you. If you don't know how someone wants to be treated... ask them."
Another common saying from my (very Catholic) grandma was, "All good paths lead to the same place. It doesn't matter if they worship in a church, temple or on a prayer blanket. If they are a good person, that's all that matters."
Mt. Komorebi is a place that does not exist. The shines are not actually Shinto shrines. While the ways are very reminiscent and based on Japanese culture, there is an element of fantasy to The Sims. The shrines are not even replicas of real shrines here on Earth. They are Sim shrines. The traditions simmers construct around them will be based heavily on that person's culture.
A German simmer may use the shrines and build holidays around them very differently than a Mexican simmer. And that's okay. Because that is what The Sims has always been about. Telling your stories. Are those stories 100% accurate to a specific culture? Not always. The Harvestfest holiday is based on the American holiday Thanksgiving, but we do not chase gnomes around the house, I can attest to that.
I support adding the bowing back in, because in the final analysis, the shrines do not belong to any actual religion. They are set in a fictitious world that just happens to look a lot like Japan.
I saw on Plumbella's review that the animal rock statues have both a 'make an offering for good fortune to' and a 'bow' interaction. There is two shrines in debug and maybe they are on one of the other hiking trails. Maybe they will have the interactions like the statues.
I saw on Plumbella's review that the animal rock statues have both a 'make an offering for good fortune to' and a 'bow' interaction. There is two shrines in debug and maybe they are on one of the other hiking trails. Maybe they will have the interactions like the statues.
I saw on Plumbella's review that the animal rock statues have both a 'make an offering for good fortune to' and a 'bow' interaction. There is two shrines in debug and maybe they are on one of the other hiking trails. Maybe they will have the interactions like the statues.
JFC, if that IS the case then why the frick didn't the team just come out and say we're replacing it instead of removing it? (Unless I missed something) Like I suppose I can kind of see how them announcing the "replacement" would still set some people off, but still, omg.
Give our Vampires back their fangs!!! Reverse the Nerf!!! Occult simmers should not be shoved aside for the "realism players"! It's time Occult lovers/players started to demand equal treatment. #JusticeForOccults
Or the game changers were given an old version before EA took out the option. Remember in Eco Lifestyle they were able to play with the balcony on the apartment in the game, but they took that feature out in the final release.
Thank you all for sharing a variety of information that shows promise.
I also watched the livestream, as well as Plumbella's video. I'm not very good at listening to English either, so I'm using the subtitle feature to decipher it a bit. I haven't been able to watch all game changers videos, so please point out or go through them if I'm wrong.
It's a great fact that I was able to check out "MountainShrine" in architecture mode.
The live stream didn't show the shrine and stone statue area, so we don't know if the shrine in the first video is still in the world. As @SageRainWillow said, the data in the game changers may be outdated before it was changed. However, I think we've allayed any concerns that all the shrines are gone.
The cave has been revealed by the climbing during the live stream. It was a small cave with no spiritial objects placed in it. The description of the cave on the interactive-map says the only way to get there is by hiking, along with pictures of the cave with snow and stone statues. It states that the hiking trails are located in the town of Yukimatsu and Senbamachi. This suggests that there are multiple "the points of interest (caves, etc.)".
I think the livestream avoided mentioning the shrine objects, stone statues and bowing. As @AnnLee87 said, I hope bowing is included in the "proper" and other new traits or new features. I felt it suggested that they are currently being cautious about this whole issue.
The screenshot is a little hard to read because of the blurred text, but I found it to be a very polite description of the "MountainShrine" . (No Sims-specific humor! )
I believe the developers were making it respectful to the shrine.
"MountainShrine" is unlikely to have a worshipping option. Maybe it's possible to meditate as the description suggests. Or maybe it's just a decoration.
But it's a hopeful fact that an object similar to a shrine exists in the game under the name of "MountainShrine". Hopefully those fact will point us in the right direction with our request.
Thank you all for keeping the thread carefully. We will continue to wait calmly for new information.
I uploaded it to see if the gamechanger's video is old one or newly updated one. From those clothes it looks like their video is after the update, but from another videos like this (from 36:00) or this(sim is bowing in front of monument with fan pattern clothes) or this(sim is changing his clothes to that one using Vending machine) it still looks like their video is before update. In other words, shrine interaction could be after or before update. I think it looks more like before the update though
I totally support this. Shrine worship shouldn't have been removed in the first place (just because of something that happened a long time ago and doesn't have any meaning in the modern world). People who didn't want their sims to bow, then should just not do it. The game wasn't going to force them. It's all a bit ridiculous, to be honest.
Some people (and you know who I mean) are notorious for always moaning about anything the Japanese do, because of a certain "inferiority complex" they have carried for a long time.
Comments
Even if it doesn't make it to launch, it's likely to be welcomed by many players if it's announced that it will be added in a later update.
@inuman offered another solution.
I'm fine with that as long as the faith of the Komorebi Sim is preserved, so the altar doesn't have to be a shrine object if it can be worshipped. The idea of a Llama Shrine sounds interesting, but creating a new object would be a burden on the development team, so I recommend using the Doso-shin objects already known to be included.
Doso-shin objects might not hurt Korean users, even if they bring back worship.
I also think that religious objects should not have been included in the beginning, as they would have made the player imagine that the Sims believe in a particular real-world god. However, it would be interesting if the concept of faith was included in The Sims. It would have been great if we could have bowed to various objects, as @Gordy suggested.
I'd like to see either keeping the shrine object and making worship optional, or replacing the shrine object with another object (I recommend the Doso-shin object) and undoing the worship.
Sorry for my bad English.
I also don't think this situation was handled well. I respect EA for acting quickly in an attempt to be inclusive, but I feel that the end result was exclusivity and insensitivity. I agree with those who have suggested that this action should be optional.
The Sims Game
I didn't mean to discuss incorporating religion into the game.
Of course my main request is for the interaction between the shrine and bowing to be optional.
I'd like to see it done in a similar way as to how it was handled in Sime Medieval, with fake religions and the choice of being agnostic.
Sorry, off-topic.
On/Off Toggle Options for players that don't want any faiths in their game. Whatever happened to embrace Diversity?
This game just needs more options across a lot of packs. If it changes the game or adds something we should should be able to tick or toggle it.
Lifestyles can be turned off and on but sentiments can't. IMO this is a big mistake as is removing the shrine. Bow at the shrine should have been optional. I believe that sometimes they move too quickly when making decisions concerning sensitive content. They should have listened to both sides and then acted with reason.
IMO ... Removing it all together just swept the controversy under a rug. Misrepresentation is still happening. By making the bow optional it would have been fair to all without any misrepresentation.
Just an idea... They even had a trait to help do it. The new proper trait could have the bow interaction attached to it. If your Sim has that trait they bow at the shrine. If not the proper trait then some other new trait.
https://www.korea.kr/news/reporterView.do?newsId=148780923
[The school trip has begun again looking for alternatives in Kyoto, Japan]
Small themed tours, not monotonous group tours...a living study by recording a school trip note
"Losting the road is an experience, and the process of solving minor problems on a trip among the members of the group is also a valuable study."
The Education Ministry said it will resume school trips that were suspended due to the ferry Ferry Sewol accident from the 1st. Accordingly, each education office offers small-themed school trips at class or club level as an alternative to improving the safety problems and educational effects of large-scale school trips.
Last June, I was able to meet students on a free-themed school trip on a business trip to Kyoto, Japan. Even if it was different from us, I could not help but be surprised by the difference in the culture of field trips. It was a free trip for several high school students to decide where they wanted to go, as well as using public transportation.
Photo Description - Korean Students in groups traveling to Fushiminari Shrine in Kyoto
This is a national page that the Korean Ministry of Education actively promotes school trips to Japan. If Manager of this forum thinks this is about a political dispute, you can delete my comment.
I hesitated whether to post it or not, but I decided to upload it because the fact that the government actively promotes students' visits to the shrine would help resolve the current misunderstanding and a useless dispute.
I thought there would be no problem because this article is not about the conflict but about Korea and Japan are being friends each other.
"If someone reaches out to shake your hand, shake their hand. If they bow to you, bow back. Don't expect the world to follow your ways. Learn their ways instead."
"They say do unto others as you would like done unto you, but that's not always true. People may not want the same treatment as you. If you don't know how someone wants to be treated... ask them."
Another common saying from my (very Catholic) grandma was, "All good paths lead to the same place. It doesn't matter if they worship in a church, temple or on a prayer blanket. If they are a good person, that's all that matters."
Mt. Komorebi is a place that does not exist. The shines are not actually Shinto shrines. While the ways are very reminiscent and based on Japanese culture, there is an element of fantasy to The Sims. The shrines are not even replicas of real shrines here on Earth. They are Sim shrines. The traditions simmers construct around them will be based heavily on that person's culture.
A German simmer may use the shrines and build holidays around them very differently than a Mexican simmer. And that's okay. Because that is what The Sims has always been about. Telling your stories. Are those stories 100% accurate to a specific culture? Not always. The Harvestfest holiday is based on the American holiday Thanksgiving, but we do not chase gnomes around the house, I can attest to that.
I support adding the bowing back in, because in the final analysis, the shrines do not belong to any actual religion. They are set in a fictitious world that just happens to look a lot like Japan.
JFC, if that IS the case then why the frick didn't the team just come out and say we're replacing it instead of removing it? (Unless I missed something) Like I suppose I can kind of see how them announcing the "replacement" would still set some people off, but still, omg.
...
Is it back?
I also watched the livestream, as well as Plumbella's video. I'm not very good at listening to English either, so I'm using the subtitle feature to decipher it a bit. I haven't been able to watch all game changers videos, so please point out or go through them if I'm wrong.
It's a great fact that I was able to check out "MountainShrine" in architecture mode.
The live stream didn't show the shrine and stone statue area, so we don't know if the shrine in the first video is still in the world. As @SageRainWillow said, the data in the game changers may be outdated before it was changed. However, I think we've allayed any concerns that all the shrines are gone.
The cave has been revealed by the climbing during the live stream. It was a small cave with no spiritial objects placed in it. The description of the cave on the interactive-map says the only way to get there is by hiking, along with pictures of the cave with snow and stone statues. It states that the hiking trails are located in the town of Yukimatsu and Senbamachi. This suggests that there are multiple "the points of interest (caves, etc.)".
I think the livestream avoided mentioning the shrine objects, stone statues and bowing. As @AnnLee87 said, I hope bowing is included in the "proper" and other new traits or new features. I felt it suggested that they are currently being cautious about this whole issue.
The screenshot is a little hard to read because of the blurred text, but I found it to be a very polite description of the "MountainShrine" . (No Sims-specific humor!
I believe the developers were making it respectful to the shrine.
"MountainShrine" is unlikely to have a worshipping option. Maybe it's possible to meditate as the description suggests. Or maybe it's just a decoration.
But it's a hopeful fact that an object similar to a shrine exists in the game under the name of "MountainShrine". Hopefully those fact will point us in the right direction with our request.
Thank you all for keeping the thread carefully. We will continue to wait calmly for new information.
In simlicy's video(from 14:00), the clothes on the trailer disappeared and new clothes appeared.
Some people (and you know who I mean) are notorious for always moaning about anything the Japanese do, because of a certain "inferiority complex" they have carried for a long time.