I am huge ts4 fan, i did not enjoyed ts3 at all, also i am programmer so i can kinda guess what is happening behinde the scene with developing ts4.
That said i recognize flaws of this sims game generation, there are some changes need to be done. At the same time i wonder what doest it mean that ts4 lack soul and depth, personally i dont feel this way so i am curious what does it mean to you guys?
Well value is subjective, so getting less for your money is not a fact. I feel I get a lot more than I used. If someone has a negative opinion of the game, then their criticism is justified. I may not agree with someone, but I won't look with them and tell them their opinion is wrong.
@Krueger If people can actually name the things we are getting less and less of then it's not really an opinion. They can actually provide you with proof.
It's kind of absurd to say
-"This game has only three playable lots"
-"That's your opinion!!!"
Actually it's not though. It's a fact
Nobody needs a justification to have an opinion about a video game, and nobody's fun is wrong. As far as productivity of discourse goes, I'd like to see two things. First, I'd like to see the sort of feedback we're talking about go in the dedicated feedback forum, or the forum for general Sims game comparison, and not here on what is supposed to be the game play forum. I think that would go a long way towards keeping things cool. Second, I'd like it if more people remember that it's just a video game, and that we should be kind to each other. When things get heated, try to be the bigger person and walk away.
Well the feedback section is to me at least a way to send feedback to the team and try to communicate with them about things.
Sometimes you don't want to do that. Sometimes you just want to talk with other players about their opinions on something without it having to be feedback. Just discuss with each other.
Also this section is not called "gameplay discussion" it's called "general discussion" and unfortunately a lot of things fall under "general" including the "negative" threads you're talking about.
I understand the anger simmers feel due to the never-ending bugs issue. What I don't understand is simmers spitting their dummies out when a pack they didn't want is released.
It's definitely justified. I love TS4 with all my heart, it is visually stunning but it's really rather lacking in so many ways and the sheer amount of neglect it's suffering from the development team currently is really starting to show. It is so riddled with bugs and faults that it's just not that enjoyable to play anymore. They need to start fixing their broken content before releasing new broken content but they never do and it just keeps getting worse and worse because they never fix anything. It's such a shame.
Nobody needs a justification to have an opinion about a video game, and nobody's fun is wrong. As far as productivity of discourse goes, I'd like to see two things. First, I'd like to see the sort of feedback we're talking about go in the dedicated feedback forum, or the forum for general Sims game comparison, and not here on what is supposed to be the game play forum. I think that would go a long way towards keeping things cool. Second, I'd like it if more people remember that it's just a video game, and that we should be kind to each other. When things get heated, try to be the bigger person and walk away.
Well the feedback section is to me at least a way to send feedback to the team and try to communicate with them about things.
Sometimes you don't want to do that. Sometimes you just want to talk with other players about their opinions on something without it having to be feedback. Just discuss with each other.
Also this section is not called "gameplay discussion" it's called "general discussion" and unfortunately a lot of things fall under "general" including the "negative" threads you're talking about.
I never used the word negative. However, if you want to talk about them, it was my understanding that their purpose was to let the powers-that-be know that people were unhappy, or at least that's what I've been repeatedly told. If what you stated is accurate, then it seems that the purpose is to argue with the other side. Should that be the case, it's not something that I would personally find useful, but if you're bent on doing it, and doing it here, then I direct you to my second point.
It is if constructive. But screaming at the Gurus isn't. It is just as ineffective as people say the disagree button was. Unless someone explains the issues of the game in clear detail, might as well be talking to the Gurus in pig Latin with all the cuss words and insults. Effective communication skills are key to get any voice heard.
@TheSpotted_C I agree Carl and LGR are effective communicators.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
That being said, criticism is always fine, no matter the product or if it's had predecessors or not. As long as it's delivered in a constructive and useful way, and you understand that no matter how well thought-out your feedback might be, not everyone will agree with it.
All criticism is conditionally justified. What matters is the intent in which it is offered.
I agree if the opinion tastefully points out the negatives as well the positives without all fluff that is not needed.
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Well value is subjective, so getting less for your money is not a fact. I feel I get a lot more than I used. If someone has a negative opinion of the game, then their criticism is justified. I may not agree with someone, but I won't look with them and tell them their opinion is wrong.
@Krueger If people can actually name the things we are getting less and less of then it's not really an opinion. They can actually provide you with proof.
It's kind of absurd to say
-"This game has only three playable lots"
-"That's your opinion!!!"
Actually it's not though. It's a fact
It's a question of quality over quantity for me. Sure there may be less in number, but they're a whole lot more fun to play for me. So in my opinion, I am not getting less for my money. That's what I was trying to say, the value someone gets out of the game is subjective.
If anyone thinks a thread has been posted in the wrong section just flag it and let the moderators decide if it should be moved. There was a Sims 3 thread in the Sims 4 section yesterday and it has been moved. So apparently there is some moderating presence on weekends.
Though saying that "something is lacking" or calling EA out when they do certain inappropriate things is sometimes constructive and not bashing, just to be an 🌺🌺🌺🌺.
And also there is a lot of opinion in there but there are things that are not just opinions but actual proven issues with the game.
But saying "something is lacking" on its own is not enough. What's lacking? If someone says "depth," that can have many meanings. There have been some people like Carl who have expanded on that, and given good feedback on how to improve without being rude to those with other opinions.
I don't feel sorry for EA or any big company being called out but I guess that depends on what you consider inappropriate, and what you consider an actual proven issue in the game. Putting YouTubers' opinions above everyone else's when it comes to the game? Definitely inappropriate, call them out. Not giving us a color wheel? Not so much.
After 40,000 posts (mine) I'm pretty sure when I say it is lacking, I've probably already told them how and how to change it. It's seven years now, I'm not complaining about lack of color wheel. I'm complaining about lack of gameplay we haven't already done over and over. Most of us who speak the language (what we mean) understand very well what someone means by lacking it's not our fault the gurus have dull ears.
This isn't 2014, feedback and ideas have been full for years and years of what people meant, it's not like they just arrived, because when we say it's lacking we have already told them over and over, and nothing was done about it. No use to say anymore than it's lacking, since this 2020 and they have already been told in very long drawn out bullet points.
What Carl has expressed (after years of not allowing any negative comments the first few years on that site) is what others and myself had already been saying to Maxis for years since the fall of 2014. I respect Carl, but he is way late to the party.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Well value is subjective, so getting less for your money is not a fact. I feel I get a lot more than I used. If someone has a negative opinion of the game, then their criticism is justified. I may not agree with someone, but I won't look with them and tell them their opinion is wrong.
@Krueger If people can actually name the things we are getting less and less of then it's not really an opinion. They can actually provide you with proof.
It's kind of absurd to say
-"This game has only three playable lots"
-"That's your opinion!!!"
Actually it's not though. It's a fact
It's a question of quality over quantity for me. Sure there may be less in number, but they're a whole lot more fun to play for me. So in my opinion, I am not getting less for my money. That's what I was trying to say, the value someone gets out of the game is subjective.
@Krueger Yeah but you have to see things objectively too. Would you recommend a scifi pack to someone that has no places to go or explore? If not then there's a problem there. You can always say "Oh I don't care of the missions are repetitive and the game is full of chance cards 'cause I find that interesting" That's subjective.
"Oh though the game has the issue of not being hands on or offering any gameplay that is fresh and doesn't use animations and ideas from the base game, I still like it because I don't care about that issue. Though the problem exists, it's a problem I don't care for. The problem is still there, it's just me that doesn't care for it" That's objective.
To make something objective you actually have to take it from an abstract level, to a specific, countable, touchable level like in the second example.
I think criticism is in the eye of the beholder so to speak and is very subjective what one person may think is a flaw another may not. Is sims 4 perfect? No but neither have any of the other games are. On a personal level I quite like sims 4 I prefer it over sims 1 but like sims 3 the most. I am aware a lot of people don’t share this opinion and that is fine with me. All criticism of the game is valid as long as it is constructive. Most of the feedback both positive and negative on this forum is valid and constructive. However at times (usually when a new pack is announced) a small minority go too far with their opinion and won’t accept others opinion this is both those who have positive and negative critiques.
I am huge ts4 fan, i did not enjoyed ts3 at all, also i am programmer so i can kinda guess what is happening behinde the scene with developing ts4.
That said i recognize flaws of this sims game generation, there are some changes need to be done. At the same time i wonder what doest it mean that ts4 lack soul and depth, personally i dont feel this way so i am curious what does it mean to you guys?
Depth and even soul is subjective to the user, Depth for me means features are not just superficial it is like an baking an multilayered cake. Sims 3 had many layers such creating your own world instead of EA/Maxis giving it to you when they please. Create your own lots when you can't in Sims 4, there are an few other significant features that Sims 3 possess that Sims 4 has yet to possess and the same can be said about Sims 4 but it is rare, can't speak on the soul issue. Sims 4 never had an proper gaming evolution like most other games in an franchise.
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That said i recognize flaws of this sims game generation, there are some changes need to be done. At the same time i wonder what doest it mean that ts4 lack soul and depth, personally i dont feel this way so i am curious what does it mean to you guys?
@Krueger If people can actually name the things we are getting less and less of then it's not really an opinion. They can actually provide you with proof.
It's kind of absurd to say
-"This game has only three playable lots"
-"That's your opinion!!!"
Actually it's not though. It's a fact
Well the feedback section is to me at least a way to send feedback to the team and try to communicate with them about things.
Sometimes you don't want to do that. Sometimes you just want to talk with other players about their opinions on something without it having to be feedback. Just discuss with each other.
Also this section is not called "gameplay discussion" it's called "general discussion" and unfortunately a lot of things fall under "general" including the "negative" threads you're talking about.
I never used the word negative. However, if you want to talk about them, it was my understanding that their purpose was to let the powers-that-be know that people were unhappy, or at least that's what I've been repeatedly told. If what you stated is accurate, then it seems that the purpose is to argue with the other side. Should that be the case, it's not something that I would personally find useful, but if you're bent on doing it, and doing it here, then I direct you to my second point.
@TheSpotted_C I agree Carl and LGR are effective communicators.
Long answer: definitely.
That being said, criticism is always fine, no matter the product or if it's had predecessors or not. As long as it's delivered in a constructive and useful way, and you understand that no matter how well thought-out your feedback might be, not everyone will agree with it.
But there is a forum for Feedback, and it should be used for that.
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If you download one of my builds, by all means, leave me a message and tell me what you did and did not like about it.
I agree if the opinion tastefully points out the negatives as well the positives without all fluff that is not needed.
It's a question of quality over quantity for me. Sure there may be less in number, but they're a whole lot more fun to play for me. So in my opinion, I am not getting less for my money. That's what I was trying to say, the value someone gets out of the game is subjective.
After 40,000 posts (mine) I'm pretty sure when I say it is lacking, I've probably already told them how and how to change it. It's seven years now, I'm not complaining about lack of color wheel. I'm complaining about lack of gameplay we haven't already done over and over. Most of us who speak the language (what we mean) understand very well what someone means by lacking it's not our fault the gurus have dull ears.
This isn't 2014, feedback and ideas have been full for years and years of what people meant, it's not like they just arrived, because when we say it's lacking we have already told them over and over, and nothing was done about it. No use to say anymore than it's lacking, since this 2020 and they have already been told in very long drawn out bullet points.
What Carl has expressed (after years of not allowing any negative comments the first few years on that site) is what others and myself had already been saying to Maxis for years since the fall of 2014. I respect Carl, but he is way late to the party.
@Krueger Yeah but you have to see things objectively too. Would you recommend a scifi pack to someone that has no places to go or explore? If not then there's a problem there. You can always say "Oh I don't care of the missions are repetitive and the game is full of chance cards 'cause I find that interesting" That's subjective.
"Oh though the game has the issue of not being hands on or offering any gameplay that is fresh and doesn't use animations and ideas from the base game, I still like it because I don't care about that issue. Though the problem exists, it's a problem I don't care for. The problem is still there, it's just me that doesn't care for it" That's objective.
To make something objective you actually have to take it from an abstract level, to a specific, countable, touchable level like in the second example.
Depth and even soul is subjective to the user, Depth for me means features are not just superficial it is like an baking an multilayered cake. Sims 3 had many layers such creating your own world instead of EA/Maxis giving it to you when they please. Create your own lots when you can't in Sims 4, there are an few other significant features that Sims 3 possess that Sims 4 has yet to possess and the same can be said about Sims 4 but it is rare, can't speak on the soul issue. Sims 4 never had an proper gaming evolution like most other games in an franchise.