I kinda have to agree I don't quite see the purpose of this argument.
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
I included the three premade retails in there, just under a basic assumption that wanting to use three retail businesses is fair. You could do the same with restaurants, so another three lots used. Of the Spa day stuff, one of those is actually a nice gym while another is needed to provide some of the wellness stuff, so it's two. Bowling is one, because while it's true you can place a bowling alley anywhere, please name one premade lot that actually has the room to fit one without you completely renovating the lot or lazily sticking it outside. City Living has a unique Art Gallery lot that if you want another you must place one, Get Together has a spare nightclub allowing you to bring the Nightclub count up from a modest 2 to 3, and then assuming you wish to either place another karaoke bar, the Forgotten Gardens from Romantic Garden stuff, place an additional building or two you've built or use one of the other premades, I consider 12 a fair estimate.
Realize this: Not everyone feels confident building lots and not everyone thinks they can make buildings as good as Maxis does, so they don't do it. They place Maxis premades. I happen to know for a fact that if you place Maxis premades, we're currently in the negative by quite a bit, with more premades available than empty lots. I can also speak from experience that some players like a "vanilla" experience and we don't enjoy tampering with existing buildings. I don't like just bulldozing all existing lots to place my own versions; I might do that for a specific save file, but I don't do it as a rule for ALL my saves. No, I like keeping stuff like Discothek Pan Europa or Partihaus' house because I kinda like leaving the aesthetic as is. For players like myself, again we're more limited and the 12 is a conservative estimate.
The same applies to if you like using stuff downloaded from the gallery. If you were to use the ~12 lots for misc EP/GP building types, then there's a remainder of about 16 lots. That's 16 lots for you to download homes and user made business lots you enjoy.
Overall, juggling the remainder is difficult. If you want to build homes, build your own lots, place Maxis lots or place gallery downloaded lots, then yeah, you've got a clear limit. If you just went with purely vacant lots as an estimate, you have 26 to use, but that can go quick. If I made four families, each with their own self-built home, business and restaurant, then built a bowling alley, spa and night club, immediately I've used half of my lots. The problem quickly worsens if I do wanna take a stab at building my own bar, library etc.
The bolded 'additions' do not fall under 'must be placed', which is how you labeled the 12 you came up with. They are what you want to place, and are extras. You could just as easily put homes there instead. If we are working under the assumptions that we're not removing pre-mades, and we must have at least 1 of every venue type available, most venues that aren't in GPs are already covered. The three retail stores don't count toward the 12 number either, as they're already in GTW's world by default. But I will give you the three restaurants (to be fair, since they too can be owned by households). And I'm not sure about the lot you're referring to with RG so I'll give that too, if you'd like, though I'm guessing it's little more than a park with a wishing well or something.
As to the bowling addition, you don't have to make a major renovation to the premade bar/lounge/nightclub of your choice. The only real factor is you need a lot long enough to fit the lane in, which I assume won't be a problem for most if not all those pre-mades anyway. All you have to do is add in a room. It could even be in the basement of the lot if you feel you're not good at landscaping or matching outerwalls to the rest of the build, or don't want to mess with roofing or something.
The bowling pack even comes with a pre-built room in three different color options. The most building you'd have to do is adding in a stairwell if you put it in the basement:
Edit/Addition: Figured out what you meant by the gardens in RG. They can all fit in one lot. In the following picture, I just placed them down to see if they'd fit, but you could easily put them together in a way to make one park. So there's one lot to give you (though they'd also be good as room placements on existing lots if you really really don't want to build anything).
Edit/Addition: Let's assume that you're really against building whatsoever, so I'll give you the bowling alley to add in.
That's a spa, bowling, 3 restaurants, and the RG gardens. That's half the 'must have' lots you suggest. Also consider that most of the pre-made venues already have a couple variations too, so it's not just 1 per game for all of them, for the sake of 'variety'.
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
I'm legit confuse, first you say you'd like an other world, then you try to convince someone that we have enough space and don't need one?
No, the person I was replying to said that it was necessary to have more than one of each/any venue in the game. I countered that it wasn't necessary, and that except for certain situations (multiple households owning one of the two businesses), any time you have multiple venues in the game, it's either because you want them there, or they were already pre-built into the world (and you're not removing pre-mades). They also suggested that there are at least 12 venue types that aren't available in the worlds already, which I also countered because I believe most already come into the game pre-built with a few exceptions (usually from GPs).
As to why I want more lots, it's because I'm a builder. It's not because I'm looking to fill up my worlds. I already have some free lots, multiple venues, not every home has a household in it, etc. But there are certain lot sizes (like the biggest in Windenburg) that only have one currently in the game, and is preoccupied by a pre-made (and I don't like removing pre-mades). So yes, I'm all for another free world (even if it's as 'plain' as Newcrest) that has at least one lot of every size available, for a canvas to build on. Because that's what I use Newcrest for, a canvas.
Why does it matter the why he want a new world? Wanting a new world cause people lack of space to build is right, but wanting a new world cause we are lacking of space to place the buildings that comes with the game is wrong?
Do you realize that the need/goal is the same here? Both want a new world. That it's for building your own buildings or using the ones from the game who cares? I could say the same, and say building isn't necessary, we already have buildings in the game why bother? Cause it's how some people play, some people build, and some use the already made buildings, neither are necessary to play the game, and both want the same thing, a new world.
You argue with someone that want the same thing then you cause he want it for a different reason.
It matters because it's misinformation. The other person is making it seem like the number they arrived at is the absolute number of available space, when it isn't, even under their own pre-defined conditions. If you want to say that we still need space even after only using 1 of each venue, and every other lot being residential, then sure, that's fine. But that's not what that other person was saying.
They said we had -x- amount of lots to build on, when in reality, even without removing pre-mades, we have more. And this is coming from a person, mind you, that strives to always come off as factual and correct. I would assume they would appreciate having the right information instead of spreading misleading info.
Edit/Addition: They used terms like 'must be placed' and 'necessary'. Perhaps if they phrased it as 'want' or 'a few extras', the situation would be different. But they didn't, and they did it purposefully.
I kinda have to agree I don't quite see the purpose of this argument.
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
Okay that is where you are wrong - to you it is just entertainment and a luxury - but there are a lot of players of this game that it is their sole source of entertainment. One thing about the Sims is - it does not matter your age, or your ability outside of some sight and some ability to use the mouse and your keyboard - but that is it. I know many simmers here who are seriously ill or disable and the only way they escape that real life problem is through the Sims. EA is aware of this factor by the way -
But please do not insult people because you see it as just another game - to some people it's a lifestyle and a tool they use to make their lives bearable. I am one of those people and I know many more like me here as well as many people who had serious health issues also who have sadly passed on. Some of which were found at their desk playing the game. So believe me it is far more than just a luxury or a toy.
Lord forbid you ever have some of these issues in your life - but you never know who is behind that Avatar or how very different their lives are from your own. When someone can see the game as just a toy or luxury - I sort of figure they are not one of "US" other wise you would never think that at all.
ETA - No disrespect intended - as you didn't know - but it is a fact. I know many long time simmers who are quite ill and this game is pretty much their whole worlds. It is why some of us run top of the line pcs and super fast internet - it's all we can do. You see my signature - this is my life -
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
....Guys wth are we even arguing?? One of you just randomly picked a new fight with me over something I never even stated.
Every discussion should have a purpose. All four currently active people in this thread agree we need more space. Despite this, one of you insists I have the "wrong" reason for wanting more space and wants to insist "~12" and "about 83" insists on factual claims (if you didn't know, the ~ before a number basically confirms a number as an estimate around that area. That's it's purpose), and another is offended I called the Sims 4 a luxury business....which it is.
I'm all for discussion, but arguing for arguing's sake is a total waste of time and feels more like a grudge match or something. I've no idea what the point or the purpose is supposed to be to these discussions when we're all 100% in agreement on the topic.
I kinda have to agree I don't quite see the purpose of this argument.
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
Okay that is where you are wrong - to you it is just entertainment and a luxury - but there are a lot of players of this game that it is their sole source of entertainment. One thing about the Sims is - it does not matter your age, or your ability outside of some sight and some ability to use the mouse and your keyboard - but that is it. I know many simmers here who are seriously ill or disable and the only way they escape that real life problem is through the Sims. EA is aware of this factor by the way -
But please do not insult people because you see it as just another game - to some people it's a lifestyle and a tool they use to make their lives bearable. I am one of those people and I know many more like me here as well as many people who had serious health issues also who have sadly passed on. Some of which were found at their desk playing the game. So believe me it is far more than just a luxury or a toy.
Lord forbid you ever have some of these issues in your life - but you never know who is behind that Avatar or how very different their lives are from your own. When someone can see the game as just a toy or luxury - I sort of figure they are not one of "US" other wise you would never think that at all.
ETA - No disrespect intended - as you didn't know - but it is a fact. I know many long time simmers who are quite ill and this game is pretty much their whole worlds.
You're going off topic here, he's just trying to say that no matter why people want a new world it doesn't matter, we want the same thing so why argue on the why people want it? We are not here to debate what the game mean to people, but to voice that we want more worlds, and that even if people want a new world for different reasons it doesn't matter.
I kinda have to agree I don't quite see the purpose of this argument.
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
Okay that is where you are wrong - to you it is just entertainment and a luxury - but there are a lot of players of this game that it is their sole source of entertainment. One thing about the Sims is - it does not matter your age, or your ability outside of some sight and some ability to use the mouse and your keyboard - but that is it. I know many simmers here who are seriously ill or disable and the only way they escape that real life problem is through the Sims. EA is aware of this factor by the way -
But please do not insult people because you see it as just another game - to some people it's a lifestyle and a tool they use to make their lives bearable. I am one of those people and I know many more like me here as well as many people who had serious health issues also who have sadly passed on. Some of which were found at their desk playing the game. So believe me it is far more than just a luxury or a toy.
Lord forbid you ever have some of these issues in your life - but you never know who is behind that Avatar or how very different their lives are from your own. When someone can see the game as just a toy or luxury - I sort of figure they are not one of "US" other wise you would never think that at all.
ETA - No disrespect intended - as you didn't know - but it is a fact. I know many long time simmers who are quite ill and this game is pretty much their whole worlds.
You're going out topic here, he's just trying to say that no matter why people want a new world it doesn't matter, we want the same thing so why argue on the why people want it? We are not here to debate what the game mean to people, but to voice that we want more worlds, and that even if people want a new world for different reasons it doesn't matter.
And your point was to waggle your finger in my face? You sound pretty off topic to me too. You are not the moderator - keep that in mind. I was not talking to you and do not need an interpreter.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I kinda have to agree I don't quite see the purpose of this argument.
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
Okay that is where you are wrong - to you it is just entertainment and a luxury - but there are a lot of players of this game that it is their sole source of entertainment. One thing about the Sims is - it does not matter your age, or your ability outside of some sight and some ability to use the mouse and your keyboard - but that is it. I know many simmers here who are seriously ill or disable and the only way they escape that real life problem is through the Sims. EA is aware of this factor by the way -
But please do not insult people because you see it as just another game - to some people it's a lifestyle and a tool they use to make their lives bearable. I am one of those people and I know many more like me here as well as many people who had serious health issues also who have sadly passed on. Some of which were found at their desk playing the game. So believe me it is far more than just a luxury or a toy.
Lord forbid you ever have some of these issues in your life - but you never know who is behind that Avatar or how very different their lives are from your own. When someone can see the game as just a toy or luxury - I sort of figure they are not one of "US" other wise you would never think that at all.
ETA - No disrespect intended - as you didn't know - but it is a fact. I know many long time simmers who are quite ill and this game is pretty much their whole worlds.
You're going out topic here, he's just trying to say that no matter why people want a new world it doesn't matter, we want the same thing so why argue on the why people want it? We are not here to debate what the game mean to people, but to voice that we want more worlds, and that even if people want a new world for different reasons it doesn't matter.
And your point was to waggle your finger in my face? You sound pretty off topic to me too. You are not the moderator - keep that in mind. I was not talking to you and do not need an interpreter.
I mean I wasn't talking to you either, but that didn't stop you from somehow getting personally offended by the one factual statement I did make.
As I've said: all four active people in this thread are in agreement we need more space, so let's cut the petty bickering. It's pointless, it accomplishes nothing, it distracts from the topic of the post (that we all support and agree with) and yeah, I'm still confused about how semi-heated things are for basically no reason at all.
Let's all drop it and let the topic continue. The main point remains: we need more space. And not need as in we'll die without it, but when the vast majority agrees they're kinda short on room or completely full, then it's a wise business idea for EA to provide for the demand; they get continued patronage, we get what we wanted, everyone wins.
Please do not argue on a thread I started. I will be very bluntly honest here. My mother was buried yesterday and due to the abusiveness and controlling behaviors my family has done ( which I have had to deal with my whole life) made it so I couldn't be there. So I am in no mind set to see any type of arguing. If you are not capable of having a calm, respectful and peaceful discussion, just turn off your computer.
Since the release of the original Sims game in the series creating in the Sim has always been stress relief for the creative outlet it has provided. It doesn't matter if it is recoloring something, creating Sims or building up the world I want my Sims in, but to be truthful building is my favorite. It always has been and always will be. True what I create for my game is based one want I need for my game and I LOVE my sims to have wide verity of venues to go to. Which does entail different types of parks, restaurants, cafes and verity of the bar/nightclub venues we already have. So please give us more empty worlds to build upon in!!! If nothing else at least give us more empty worlds for those who don't like to build all sorts of lots room to place the ones that are included in the packs we buy!!! And for love God and all things no more worlds with only 5 lots on them!!!
I dunno if it's possible, but couldn't they just like duplicate Newcrest, rotate and reskin it a bit, and TADA! We get a new world with a bunch of lots, like honestly they don't need to waste much time on the look, we want it for space, not to look pretty.
@TheGoodOldGamer Since you like to have facts straight, I figured I should remind you, that in order for an edited bar/lounge/nightclub to work as a bowling venue, you need to add at least 2 lanes, not just 1
As to how desperately I need or want more lots? Well, I bought GTW purely for the 4 lots to use as residentials, as I was out of room to continue playing(my sims move out when they become YAs and get added to the rotation). I wasn't interested in active careers, would have loved to have played with retail, but that requires using 2 lots for one household, so just wasn't happening. And that was even with only keeping 1 lot per neighbourhood for an all-in-one community lot, while the rest had been turned into residentials as well. And all premades deleted.
I am not nearly that desperate now, as it takes longer and longer to play a full rotation, the bigger it gets, so the need for more lots slows down with time. We just got way too few lots to start with, and too many of the ones we get are restricted (Can't live in the 6 lots in GF, 3 lots in GT can't have the lot type changed, just like 1 in CL besides the apartment and penthouse restrictions). There is no such thing as too many lots for me though, as I can think of a gazillion restaurant and businesses I could run, if only I had the lots.
I honestly don't think they will be able to fix this issue with room unless they just keep giving us new worlds in packs or empty ones for free. I would love to see a world editor of sorts, but I lost confidence in that with the whole apartment issue. That would have solved many issues with room availability IMO. Or maybe make some of the vacation/rentals lot residential? They seemed to not take a lot of things into consideration when making this series of the game.
....Guys wth are we even arguing?? One of you just randomly picked a new fight with me over something I never even stated.
Every discussion should have a purpose. All four currently active people in this thread agree we need more space. Despite this, one of you insists I have the "wrong" reason for wanting more space and wants to insist "~12" and "about 83" insists on factual claims (if you didn't know, the ~ before a number basically confirms a number as an estimate around that area. That's it's purpose), and another is offended I called the Sims 4 a luxury business....which it is.
I'm all for discussion, but arguing for arguing's sake is a total waste of time and feels more like a grudge match or something. I've no idea what the point or the purpose is supposed to be to these discussions when we're all 100% in agreement on the topic.
Very much so. It's why I don't care for the community much. One day, it's all good. The next? Meh. Not going into it much further than that other than to agree with the main point of the thread. Emotions aren't my thing.
This topic isn't new. It's been happening since the beginning of this iteration. That doesn't make it any less important. It actually makes it more important, imo. This batch of players hasn't been nearly as loud as the toddler players, but I feel they're just as important, and possibly even equal to in numbers.
I wonder if they can be catered to as well?
There aren't enough awesomes to throw at you for what you said though. You hit the nail on the head for what's really wrong with this so-called 'community.'
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
I agree that there needs to be an additional world, or--better yet--an expansion to the towns that we have now, like how in Unleashed, we went from, like, 10 lots to 60.
Historically, the game has always added more space as more EPs and content are released, since the more venues and gameplay/CAS items that the players are given, the more venues and households they'll want to create, and the more space that they'll need to put all this stuff in. So this seems to be a fair request.
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the restrictions EA/Maxis has placed on builders! Maybe having only one of each venue in the game is fine with you, but speaking as a hardcore builder, I like to have several lots of all types in my game. So, your solution does not fly with me. This, of course, is my opinion...
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the restrictions EA/Maxis has placed on builders! Maybe having only one of each venue in the game is fine with you, but speaking as a hardcore builder, I like to have several lots of all types in my game. So, your solution does not fly with me. This, of course, is my opinion...
Same here!!! I don't want just one type of café, library, museum...etc. I want my sims to have multiple choices. I also want for the sims that mine comes into contact with and becomes a part of his life, to have a place to live and invite my Sim over to their place. Kind of hard to play the game that I want to play when we are limited on space.
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the restrictions EA/Maxis has placed on builders! Maybe having only one of each venue in the game is fine with you, but speaking as a hardcore builder, I like to have several lots of all types in my game. So, your solution does not fly with me. This, of course, is my opinion...
Oh, don't get me wrong, I do too. I was just commenting on what the other poster said, in how there must be -x- amount of venues, cutting off that many lots from 'free for use' for whatever you want. We came around to about half that amount eventually, around 6 instead of 12.
That's not how I play/build though. I don't even use Newcrest for actual gameplay for the most part, I use it as a general building canvas. I've probably built more venues than homes at this point. But there's a difference between 'need' and 'want'. And the other poster I was replying to said you needed more than one to get all the gameplay available, when you really don't. More than one means you want variety.
Sims 1 - 10 lots
Sims 2 - Infinite lots
Sims 3 - About ~90 lots per world, with 30 vacant or empty lots, and enough free space to add expansion building types to almost (Bridgeport) any world
Sims 4 - ~16 lots per world for about 83 lots total if you have all EPs and GPs, but one town has apartments that cannot be removed or you lose their functionality, meaning 16 of those cannot be edited in a meaningful way (so 67 are flexible), and only another 26 lots are vacant compared to Sims 3's 30. The game likewise offers about 12 lots that must be placed and are needed/heavily desired to experience pack content. (so ~14 empty lots if these are placed)
It's actually somewhat comparable to Sims 3, but I think a meaningful difference is that Sims 3 started us off heavily oversupplied with vacant lots, then slowly filled those over development time. Sims 4 comparatively started us with only 6 vacant lots, and often provides quite a few premade lots alongside packs and expansions. At the very least some must be placed to experience functionality of a GP. Finally, we can control more homes than in Sims 3, so while one restaurant might suffice for Sims 3, it does not suffice for Sims 4.
For you, perhaps. There's almost nothing in the game that stops you from having only one of each venue if you wanted (and in some cases, you don't even need every available venue). In regards to restaurants, the only reason you'd have to have more than one is if you had more than one household that owns one, same for a retail store. In fact, I know many players who indeed have only one area for venues, and use the rest of the worlds as residential.
(I'm not too concerned personally with having every lot possible as residential but it can certainly 'suffice' just fine.)
As for the lots that 'must be placed' (assuming you intend to never remove a pre-made already in the worlds), where does the 12 come from?
There's a spa from Spa Day (which I remember specifically because there's a tutorial asking you to place one, lol).
There's a restaurant from Dine Out.
...
And what else?
Retail stores are already in the GTW world.
Nightclubs (and even club hangouts) exist in GT's world.
Kareoke bars already exist in CL's world.
Bars, lounges, gyms, museums, libraries, etc already exist in the worlds.
Bowling alleys only need a lane added to an existing bar/lounge/nightclub, and not an entire new venue.
Is there a venue I'm missing that needs to be placed? Because I doubt the amount of available-but-not-in-world venues is as high as '12'.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the restrictions EA/Maxis has placed on builders! Maybe having only one of each venue in the game is fine with you, but speaking as a hardcore builder, I like to have several lots of all types in my game. So, your solution does not fly with me. This, of course, is my opinion...
Oh, don't get me wrong, I do too. I was just commenting on what the other poster said, in how there must be -x- amount of venues, cutting off that many lots from 'free for use' for whatever you want. We came around to about half that amount eventually, around 6 instead of 12.
That's not how I play/build though. I don't even use Newcrest for actual gameplay for the most part, I use it as a general building canvas. I've probably built more venues than homes at this point. But there's a difference between 'need' and 'want'. And the other poster I was replying to said you needed more than one to get all the gameplay available, when you really don't. More than one means you want variety.
Thank you for explaining that, now I understand.
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
I would like a free world that we can add are own lots on and pick what size lot you want
I would love to have a couple of worlds with nothing but the three largest size lots. I would turn one of those into a country side world in a heart beat!! I would a couple of different farms, a bed and breakfast for romantic weekends getaways and honeymoons.
I build more than I play and although I don't build in this iteration, something I'd like to see for builders is the ability to truly combine residential and commercial lots. Flats above shops, etc.
We are way overdue for another Newcrest type of world. Can't believe there has been no movement on adding new "blank" worlds, since Newcrest was released on June 11 2015.
We are way overdue for another Newcrest type of world. Can't believe there has been no movement on adding new "blank" worlds, since Newcrest was released on June 11 2015.
Very true!!! We got Newcrest because there was backlash of the lack of space. They released it with "We hear and here you go!" type of thing. Well listen! Don't hear us! LISTEN to us! Give us more empty worlds to build in. Heck even put them up to download for those who want more empty worlds, like the holiday pack is a free download.
I wouldn't mind paying for worlds, but not empty ones. I wouldn't pay an empty world that only had five lots either! I would pay a reasonable amount of money for worlds like we could buy in TS3 but not for those prices. I only bought those with the free sim points I earned.
We are way overdue for another Newcrest type of world. Can't believe there has been no movement on adding new "blank" worlds, since Newcrest was released on June 11 2015.
Very true!!! We got Newcrest because there was backlash of the lack of space. They released it with "We hear and here you go!" type of thing. Well listen! Don't hear us! LISTEN to us! Give us more empty worlds to build in. Heck even put them up to download for those who want more empty worlds, like the holiday pack is a free download.
I wouldn't mind paying for worlds, but not empty ones. I wouldn't pay an empty world that only had five lots either! I would pay a reasonable amount of money for worlds like we could buy in TS3 but not for those prices. I only bought those with the free sim points I earned.
I've yet to hear the rational of only having 5 lots per segment in the neighborhoods. If they originally had 10 in each, then that would have helped to alleviate the lack of space, but 5. That was just ridiculous.
Comments
A huge chunk of the community is in agreement we lack space. This game is a luxury, and the video game/entertainment industry is a luxury business. None of us NEED any of this.
But for the developers in such an industry "want" and "need" are often one in the same. If I ran an arcade and everyone was demanding a Donkey Kong arcade machine, I don't brush them off with "well they don't NEED it." No, they want it, and my business is providing what they want in terms of arcade games. I should supply it.
Here? For whatever reason it seems clear the average player wants more space. We may have different motives and reasons for why we want more space, but we all want it. Therefore, it's in the Sim's interest to provide. Arguing over why we should want more space is a pretty meaningless discussion.
The bolded 'additions' do not fall under 'must be placed', which is how you labeled the 12 you came up with. They are what you want to place, and are extras. You could just as easily put homes there instead. If we are working under the assumptions that we're not removing pre-mades, and we must have at least 1 of every venue type available, most venues that aren't in GPs are already covered. The three retail stores don't count toward the 12 number either, as they're already in GTW's world by default. But I will give you the three restaurants (to be fair, since they too can be owned by households). And I'm not sure about the lot you're referring to with RG so I'll give that too, if you'd like, though I'm guessing it's little more than a park with a wishing well or something.
As to the bowling addition, you don't have to make a major renovation to the premade bar/lounge/nightclub of your choice. The only real factor is you need a lot long enough to fit the lane in, which I assume won't be a problem for most if not all those pre-mades anyway. All you have to do is add in a room. It could even be in the basement of the lot if you feel you're not good at landscaping or matching outerwalls to the rest of the build, or don't want to mess with roofing or something.
The bowling pack even comes with a pre-built room in three different color options. The most building you'd have to do is adding in a stairwell if you put it in the basement:
Edit/Addition: Figured out what you meant by the gardens in RG. They can all fit in one lot. In the following picture, I just placed them down to see if they'd fit, but you could easily put them together in a way to make one park. So there's one lot to give you (though they'd also be good as room placements on existing lots if you really really don't want to build anything).
Edit/Addition: Let's assume that you're really against building whatsoever, so I'll give you the bowling alley to add in.
That's a spa, bowling, 3 restaurants, and the RG gardens. That's half the 'must have' lots you suggest. Also consider that most of the pre-made venues already have a couple variations too, so it's not just 1 per game for all of them, for the sake of 'variety'.
It matters because it's misinformation. The other person is making it seem like the number they arrived at is the absolute number of available space, when it isn't, even under their own pre-defined conditions. If you want to say that we still need space even after only using 1 of each venue, and every other lot being residential, then sure, that's fine. But that's not what that other person was saying.
They said we had -x- amount of lots to build on, when in reality, even without removing pre-mades, we have more. And this is coming from a person, mind you, that strives to always come off as factual and correct. I would assume they would appreciate having the right information instead of spreading misleading info.
Edit/Addition: They used terms like 'must be placed' and 'necessary'. Perhaps if they phrased it as 'want' or 'a few extras', the situation would be different. But they didn't, and they did it purposefully.
Okay that is where you are wrong - to you it is just entertainment and a luxury - but there are a lot of players of this game that it is their sole source of entertainment. One thing about the Sims is - it does not matter your age, or your ability outside of some sight and some ability to use the mouse and your keyboard - but that is it. I know many simmers here who are seriously ill or disable and the only way they escape that real life problem is through the Sims. EA is aware of this factor by the way -
But please do not insult people because you see it as just another game - to some people it's a lifestyle and a tool they use to make their lives bearable. I am one of those people and I know many more like me here as well as many people who had serious health issues also who have sadly passed on. Some of which were found at their desk playing the game. So believe me it is far more than just a luxury or a toy.
Lord forbid you ever have some of these issues in your life - but you never know who is behind that Avatar or how very different their lives are from your own. When someone can see the game as just a toy or luxury - I sort of figure they are not one of "US" other wise you would never think that at all.
ETA - No disrespect intended - as you didn't know - but it is a fact. I know many long time simmers who are quite ill and this game is pretty much their whole worlds. It is why some of us run top of the line pcs and super fast internet - it's all we can do. You see my signature - this is my life -
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Every discussion should have a purpose. All four currently active people in this thread agree we need more space. Despite this, one of you insists I have the "wrong" reason for wanting more space and wants to insist "~12" and "about 83" insists on factual claims (if you didn't know, the ~ before a number basically confirms a number as an estimate around that area. That's it's purpose), and another is offended I called the Sims 4 a luxury business....which it is.
I'm all for discussion, but arguing for arguing's sake is a total waste of time and feels more like a grudge match or something. I've no idea what the point or the purpose is supposed to be to these discussions when we're all 100% in agreement on the topic.
You're going off topic here, he's just trying to say that no matter why people want a new world it doesn't matter, we want the same thing so why argue on the why people want it? We are not here to debate what the game mean to people, but to voice that we want more worlds, and that even if people want a new world for different reasons it doesn't matter.
And your point was to waggle your finger in my face? You sound pretty off topic to me too. You are not the moderator - keep that in mind. I was not talking to you and do not need an interpreter.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I mean I wasn't talking to you either, but that didn't stop you from somehow getting personally offended by the one factual statement I did make.
As I've said: all four active people in this thread are in agreement we need more space, so let's cut the petty bickering. It's pointless, it accomplishes nothing, it distracts from the topic of the post (that we all support and agree with) and yeah, I'm still confused about how semi-heated things are for basically no reason at all.
Let's all drop it and let the topic continue. The main point remains: we need more space. And not need as in we'll die without it, but when the vast majority agrees they're kinda short on room or completely full, then it's a wise business idea for EA to provide for the demand; they get continued patronage, we get what we wanted, everyone wins.
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I agree with this message 100% ,
As to how desperately I need or want more lots? Well, I bought GTW purely for the 4 lots to use as residentials, as I was out of room to continue playing(my sims move out when they become YAs and get added to the rotation). I wasn't interested in active careers, would have loved to have played with retail, but that requires using 2 lots for one household, so just wasn't happening. And that was even with only keeping 1 lot per neighbourhood for an all-in-one community lot, while the rest had been turned into residentials as well. And all premades deleted.
I am not nearly that desperate now, as it takes longer and longer to play a full rotation, the bigger it gets, so the need for more lots slows down with time. We just got way too few lots to start with, and too many of the ones we get are restricted (Can't live in the 6 lots in GF, 3 lots in GT can't have the lot type changed, just like 1 in CL besides the apartment and penthouse restrictions). There is no such thing as too many lots for me though, as I can think of a gazillion restaurant and businesses I could run, if only I had the lots.
Very much so. It's why I don't care for the community much. One day, it's all good. The next? Meh. Not going into it much further than that other than to agree with the main point of the thread. Emotions aren't my thing.
This topic isn't new. It's been happening since the beginning of this iteration. That doesn't make it any less important. It actually makes it more important, imo. This batch of players hasn't been nearly as loud as the toddler players, but I feel they're just as important, and possibly even equal to in numbers.
I wonder if they can be catered to as well?
There aren't enough awesomes to throw at you for what you said though. You hit the nail on the head for what's really wrong with this so-called 'community.'
Historically, the game has always added more space as more EPs and content are released, since the more venues and gameplay/CAS items that the players are given, the more venues and households they'll want to create, and the more space that they'll need to put all this stuff in. So this seems to be a fair request.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the restrictions EA/Maxis has placed on builders! Maybe having only one of each venue in the game is fine with you, but speaking as a hardcore builder, I like to have several lots of all types in my game. So, your solution does not fly with me. This, of course, is my opinion...
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
Same here!!! I don't want just one type of café, library, museum...etc. I want my sims to have multiple choices. I also want for the sims that mine comes into contact with and becomes a part of his life, to have a place to live and invite my Sim over to their place. Kind of hard to play the game that I want to play when we are limited on space.
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I do too. I was just commenting on what the other poster said, in how there must be -x- amount of venues, cutting off that many lots from 'free for use' for whatever you want. We came around to about half that amount eventually, around 6 instead of 12.
That's not how I play/build though. I don't even use Newcrest for actual gameplay for the most part, I use it as a general building canvas. I've probably built more venues than homes at this point. But there's a difference between 'need' and 'want'. And the other poster I was replying to said you needed more than one to get all the gameplay available, when you really don't. More than one means you want variety.
Thank you for explaining that, now I understand.
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
I would love to have a couple of worlds with nothing but the three largest size lots. I would turn one of those into a country side world in a heart beat!! I would a couple of different farms, a bed and breakfast for romantic weekends getaways and honeymoons.
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Very true!!! We got Newcrest because there was backlash of the lack of space. They released it with "We hear and here you go!" type of thing. Well listen! Don't hear us! LISTEN to us! Give us more empty worlds to build in. Heck even put them up to download for those who want more empty worlds, like the holiday pack is a free download.
I wouldn't mind paying for worlds, but not empty ones. I wouldn't pay an empty world that only had five lots either! I would pay a reasonable amount of money for worlds like we could buy in TS3 but not for those prices. I only bought those with the free sim points I earned.
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I've yet to hear the rational of only having 5 lots per segment in the neighborhoods. If they originally had 10 in each, then that would have helped to alleviate the lack of space, but 5. That was just ridiculous.