@JoAnne65 I am quite amazed that you have managed to play 21 generations in TS3 without the game becoming too unstable to play. But it still isn't the same as in TS2 where you also could have a lot of relatives living in other houses.
Yes I believe that you could save a house with its inhabitants in TS3 and then start with that house in a new world which is probably what you mean when you say that you can keep your family when you want to play another EP. But when you do that your sims still lose all their relationships to all other sims who then don't exist anymore.
The vanilla game has its boundaries for sure (NRaas travelling mod gives you completely new opportunities, but to be honest I'm fine with my vanilla solution in that department). The longest I've played in one save was in the beginning. During Generation 5 I got a mean glitch and I was gutted because I feared I had to sacrifice my beloved family. It's then that I discovered there's nothing easier than throw all the important relatives in one household and start a new game with them. I decided to also change their world, so went from Sunset Valley to Riverview.
After that, this has become my playing style. I play my family and when saving starts to take minutes, I simply get them all together and start a new game. Same thing when I'm tired of the world they live in and want to move. I take everyone with me that matters and leave behind who I don't care about. That even feels realistic to me, some people in life you leave behind. And the new world they move to is filled with other, new people to get relationships with.
Family members I put in one household in order to protect their family ties, friends go in seperate households and I restore their relationships (with cheats, easy) once I've placed them into the new world. Believe it or not, it's fun doing that even. And then I can continue where I left off. My current sim grew up in Dragon Valley, I started her generation by taking her on holiday in Monte Vista (where her grandparents and greatgrandparents live), now she's at college and when she'll finish her study she'll move to IP. Where, apart from exploring that huge world, she'll also become an Egypt adventurer. I don't quite see it, Sims 3 tying you to one world. I even believe I'll be able to restore broken family ties, now that I have Mastercontroller, but I haven't gotten into that yet.
Sims 3 definitely does not tie you to a single world. You can use the phone or the computer to move to a new world. Much better than the Sims 4 system of going from a desert to a European town in 3 seconds.
@JoAnne65 I am quite amazed that you have managed to play 21 generations in TS3 without the game becoming too unstable to play. But it still isn't the same as in TS2 where you also could have a lot of relatives living in other houses.
Yes I believe that you could save a house with its inhabitants in TS3 and then start with that house in a new world which is probably what you mean when you say that you can keep your family when you want to play another EP. But when you do that your sims still lose all their relationships to all other sims who then don't exist anymore.
The vanilla game has its boundaries for sure (NRaas travelling mod gives you completely new opportunities, but to be honest I'm fine with my vanilla solution in that department). The longest I've played in one save was in the beginning. During Generation 5 I got a mean glitch and I was gutted because I feared I had to sacrifice my beloved family. It's then that I discovered there's nothing easier than throw all the important relatives in one household and start a new game with them. I decided to also change their world, so went from Sunset Valley to Riverview.
After that, this has become my playing style. I play my family and when saving starts to take minutes, I simply get them all together and start a new game. Same thing when I'm tired of the world they live in and want to move. I take everyone with me that matters and leave behind who I don't care about. That even feels realistic to me, some people in life you leave behind. And the new world they move to is filled with other, new people to get relationships with.
Family members I put in one household in order to protect their family ties, friends go in seperate households and I restore their relationships (with cheats, easy) once I've placed them into the new world. Believe it or not, it's fun doing that even. And then I can continue where I left off. My current sim grew up in Dragon Valley, I started her generation by taking her on holiday in Monte Vista (where her grandparents and greatgrandparents live), now she's at college and when she'll finish her study she'll move to IP. Where, apart from exploring that huge world, she'll also become an Egypt adventurer. I don't quite see it, Sims 3 tying you to one world. I even believe I'll be able to restore broken family ties, now that I have Mastercontroller, but I haven't gotten into that yet.
Sims 3 definitely does not tie you to a single world. You can use the phone or the computer to move to a new world. Much better than the Sims 4 system of going from a desert to a European town in 3 seconds.
That's another thing that mystifies me. The using of the phone (and a heck of a long loading screen) to start with the same family on a new map is worse than not having the phone and a loading screen to do the same thing. Why?
Also going to add, the ability to move anywhere via the phone was a late addition to TS3 (and something I forget about)
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
You're not the one selling a product though. They are. They'd have to be acutely aware of what would affect those sales, including knowing that people would prefer an older product to a newer one.
You get enjoyment from what you already have, which is good.
I watched carefully how it was in previous installments of the series. In TS2 and TS3 the most wanted expansions like Pets and Seasons came very late to the series, so it is still hope. I think it's very clever marketing strategy - people are used to getting some DLC, and they're willing to buy. If EA first gives them some not so anticipated content like party stuff, new hangouts, etc, they buy it anyway, cause they are hungry for DLC, and then they buy some more. If EA first gives the most wanted content like Seasons or Pets, some of buyers will stop at this point and will not care for later DLC. It's like in good restaurant. First you receive some appetizers, then main course. Not other way around.
TS4 can be still enjoyable but it demands different style of game. I understand that not everybody likes it. I think it can be improved with some EPs, SPs and GPs, but it will never be the same game as TS2 and TS3. In good and bad meaning of this words.
Three comments:
1. I see the GPs as replacing half of the EPs. Probably because EA wanted some of the EPs replaced by two GPs such as a GP can be seen as a half EP.
Agree.
Recently I've watched some old "First Look" of TS3 Seasons EP on Youtube. This EP was great, but I was shocked how few clothing and hairstyles there was. I must admit that in every TS4 DLC we receive so much more CAS content, and that is important to me, cause I don't use CC.
I have to disagree with you here, simply because, yes I know for me - not speaking for everyone else - I wanted Season or Pets. Seasons because that was something sorely missing from The Sims. But I used user created items to change the seasons in the original game. I also used a mod to simulate the three stages of pregnancy. And I wanted Pets because I had so much fun with them in The Sims. And of course after having Seasons and Pets in Sims 2, it was only natural to assume that we would get them in Sims 3.
But I wasn't "waiting" around for them and buying DLC or SPs simply because I was use to getting things. The games still offered hours of enjoyment and entertainment without major or what some would consider game changing content like seasons, or pets, or even the ability to push your babies and toddlers around in a stroller.
If EA had shipped Sims 2 or even Sims 3 with seasons and pets, that would have been a bonus for me as a player, but waiting on them wasn't a deal breaker, because again, I come back to the game play. It was already there. I wasn't in need of added stuff to make it fun.
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
You're not the one selling a product though. They are. They'd have to be acutely aware of what would affect those sales, including knowing that people would prefer an older product to a newer one.
You get enjoyment from what you already have, which is good.
Well if they were so aware then I think they would have done a better job at the product they put out than what they have done. But that's just my humble opinion.
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
Yes. But EA's problem isn't simmers like you who most likely will buy all Sims games no matter how EA makes them. EA isn't satisfied if only a big part of the experienced simmers buy the game because EA needs a lot of new simmers to buy the games too and that is always much harder for EA to obtain. Therefore EA needs to make all Sims games new, easy to play and different from all earlier Sims games because EA needs something to use in the headlines to attract as many new simmers as possible.
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
Yes. But EA's problem isn't simmers like you who most likely will buy all Sims games no matter how EA makes them. EA isn't satisfied if only a big part of the experienced simmers buy the game because EA needs a lot of new simmers to buy the games too and that is always much harder for EA to obtain. Therefore EA needs to make all Sims games new, easy to play and different from all earlier Sims games because EA needs something to use in the headlines to attract as many new simmers as possible.
This. We who will buy anyway are not their target market, because we'll buy. They want people who don't. And on the whole games have been dumbed down over the years. People prefer something they can dive into without three years of tutorials and as different from the others and inoffensive as possible (apparently).
@Erpe That's why I dont use mods and CC. Too much fuss. But I'm keen to try MC Commander Center, cause I hate culling, and I want to play more godlike style.
@JoAnne65 TS3 for most players is unplayable without mods, cause it is unstable. And TS4 for most players is unplayable without mods cause it is boring.^^'
I agree that TS3 is unplayable without mods and I used them too while I played the game. Mods from Nraas were mandatory.
If they were, mandatory, how come I - and others - played the game for five years without them?
I don't know because I sure couldn't. I didn't need them for World Adventures though. But for normal family play my mods were essential.
In what sense? When talking about 'unplayable' I mean? Like I said, I cherish the mods I have now, they make simming a lot easier (I have OW, ET and MC from NRaas), but if someone took them away that wouldn't stop me from playing. Relationship culling I consider unplayable, or the genetics bug TS4 suffered from at one point. Nights lasting ten real minutes in Shang Simla, that made the game unplayable in my book (that I could solve without mods though). But I've played normal family play all those years without using mods. And the mods I have now aren't for family play. What mods are you referring to?
Well maybe "family play" wasn't the right expression for me to choose because I couldn't play just one family without caring about the rest of the neighborhood. I needed mods to stop the game from destroying the other families and from destroying my own family when I shortly switched to another family. It is related to family play though because I don't let my kids grow up and move to another house just for the game to kill them or move them into other houses or families at random. I also need my moved out kids to have a job and goto work in my chosen career without the game randomly moving them to other careers where they usually would get fired without my help because the game wouldn't ever send them to work.
My point is that it should be me who decides when I don't care for my sim's kids anymore. Not the game assuming that they can be killed or moved around at random or given random jobs just because I moved them to a house of their own.
Yes, I think SP was borked in the beginning (I started playing when the game was six months old and I didn't really know any better, so it never bothered me). Disabling SP was fixed apparently and after August 2011 non existent all together. And the game doesn't cul sims when you make sure to not put them in one person households. The game isn't rotational play friendly where it comes to aging. That's personal preference though, not the game being flawed in general. I dislike the town doesn't age in Sims 2.
@JoAnne65 I am quite amazed that you have managed to play 21 generations in TS3 without the game becoming too unstable to play. But it still isn't the same as in TS2 where you also could have a lot of relatives living in other houses.
Yes I believe that you could save a house with its inhabitants in TS3 and then start with that house in a new world which is probably what you mean when you say that you can keep your family when you want to play another EP. But when you do that your sims still lose all their relationships to all other sims who then don't exist anymore.
The vanilla game has its boundaries for sure (NRaas travelling mod gives you completely new opportunities, but to be honest I'm fine with my vanilla solution in that department). The longest I've played in one save was in the beginning. During Generation 5 I got a mean glitch and I was gutted because I feared I had to sacrifice my beloved family. It's then that I discovered there's nothing easier than throw all the important relatives in one household and start a new game with them. I decided to also change their world, so went from Sunset Valley to Riverview.
After that, this has become my playing style. I play my family and when saving starts to take minutes, I simply get them all together and start a new game. Same thing when I'm tired of the world they live in and want to move. I take everyone with me that matters and leave behind who I don't care about. That even feels realistic to me, some people in life you leave behind. And the new world they move to is filled with other, new people to get relationships with.
Family members I put in one household in order to protect their family ties, friends go in seperate households and I restore their relationships (with cheats, easy) once I've placed them into the new world. Believe it or not, it's fun doing that even. And then I can continue where I left off. My current sim grew up in Dragon Valley, I started her generation by taking her on holiday in Monte Vista (where her grandparents and greatgrandparents live), now she's at college and when she'll finish her study she'll move to IP. Where, apart from exploring that huge world, she'll also become an Egypt adventurer. I don't quite see it, Sims 3 tying you to one world. I even believe I'll be able to restore broken family ties, now that I have Mastercontroller, but I haven't gotten into that yet.
Sims 3 definitely does not tie you to a single world. You can use the phone or the computer to move to a new world. Much better than the Sims 4 system of going from a desert to a European town in 3 seconds.
That's another thing that mystifies me. The using of the phone (and a heck of a long loading screen) to start with the same family on a new map is worse than not having the phone and a loading screen to do the same thing. Why?
Also going to add, the ability to move anywhere via the phone was a late addition to TS3 (and something I forget about)
I agree with Arletta here, that option is silly imo. You can move your sims to another world alright, but you can never go back again. And you can't take other households with you. Which is why I prefer using the bin for that
@Arletta You are mainly saying the same as I said except that I don't play TS3 anymore either but for other reasons. There were mainly three things that I didn't like about TS3:
1. There were no family stories and neighborhood stories like there was in TS2. The other families in TS3 were reduced to being NPCs which the game moved around at random or even killed at random.
2. The EPs in TS3 couldn't cooperate. If we wanted to use another EP then we had to start over in a new world.
3. We couldn't add subworlds like we could in TS2. Therefore we couldn't expand very much and we had to start over all the time.
So TS2 was a better game for me than TS3 ever was. But I don't even play TS2 anymore either because I know that game way too well and because I have tried everything. With its low difficulty degree the game therefore isn't worth playing for me anymore.
Didn't mean to repeat you.
After a time, I edited a game world, or a bunch of them to include things from other packs. The constantly having to edit them drove me bananas. One of the reasons I like TS4, no need to edit a bunch of times or have a starting world.
I don't play TS3 very often. I'm kind of 'meh' about it most of the time. I just don't think there's anything wrong with going back and playing an older game if you don't like the current one. They must factor that in when they make the game, that people aren't going to like it and are going to stick with an older version. Certainly I'd be aware of it. Because that's their competition, the older versions.
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
Yes. But EA's problem isn't simmers like you who most likely will buy all Sims games no matter how EA makes them. EA isn't satisfied if only a big part of the experienced simmers buy the game because EA needs a lot of new simmers to buy the games too and that is always much harder for EA to obtain. Therefore EA needs to make all Sims games new, easy to play and different from all earlier Sims games because EA needs something to use in the headlines to attract as many new simmers as possible.
This. We who will buy anyway are not their target market, because we'll buy. They want people who don't. And on the whole games have been dumbed down over the years. People prefer something they can dive into without three years of tutorials and as different from the others and inoffensive as possible (apparently).
Well, I was like that, buying everything. That stopped though
If EA had shipped Sims 2 or even Sims 3 with seasons and pets, that would have been a bonus for me as a player, but waiting on them wasn't a deal breaker, because again, I come back to the game play. It was already there. I wasn't in need of added stuff to make it fun.
I said this years ago about TS4 before it was released, and now I'll say it again about a hopefully much-improved TS5 that comes out someday and is a worthy Sims successor: stop making players wait years and pay for the same things over and over. Put seasons, weather, and pets in the base game, along with toggles to turn them off if players don't want them. Branch out with new ideas: people have been asking for a robust farm/ranch expansion pack for ages. There ARE new things to implement if the devs will only look.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that more packs are not going to help Sims 4. I have some major concerns that the game engine cannot handle many player requests, or if it's done, it ends up severely limited. Remember how former SimGuruRyan said two years ago that they were "building a strong foundation capable of fulfilling all of your desires for years to come?" Two years later and all I see are more issues and an ongoing lack of communication. It worries me for the state of the franchise.
At this pace, this game will probably need six years.
That's a lot of stuff packs.
I got the impression (could be wrong) that they don't have an end date in mind on that thread over in Video Haven.
I doubt a business as large as EA is just winging it.
Probably just PR speak to manage customer expectations.
What ever duration it turns out to be, I just hope it isn't going to be longer than TS3's lifespan. It's 2 years in, and I feel ready for a new base game. I really never got this feeling before during TS2/TS3 this soon.
Comments
Sims 3 definitely does not tie you to a single world. You can use the phone or the computer to move to a new world. Much better than the Sims 4 system of going from a desert to a European town in 3 seconds.
That's another thing that mystifies me. The using of the phone (and a heck of a long loading screen) to start with the same family on a new map is worse than not having the phone and a loading screen to do the same thing. Why?
Also going to add, the ability to move anywhere via the phone was a late addition to TS3 (and something I forget about)
But for many players - myself included - the older games aren't competition. I'm still playing Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3. I didn't drop one version for a newer one. I love all of them, and so I continue to play all of them.
You're not the one selling a product though. They are. They'd have to be acutely aware of what would affect those sales, including knowing that people would prefer an older product to a newer one.
You get enjoyment from what you already have, which is good.
I have to disagree with you here, simply because, yes I know for me - not speaking for everyone else - I wanted Season or Pets. Seasons because that was something sorely missing from The Sims. But I used user created items to change the seasons in the original game. I also used a mod to simulate the three stages of pregnancy. And I wanted Pets because I had so much fun with them in The Sims. And of course after having Seasons and Pets in Sims 2, it was only natural to assume that we would get them in Sims 3.
But I wasn't "waiting" around for them and buying DLC or SPs simply because I was use to getting things. The games still offered hours of enjoyment and entertainment without major or what some would consider game changing content like seasons, or pets, or even the ability to push your babies and toddlers around in a stroller.
If EA had shipped Sims 2 or even Sims 3 with seasons and pets, that would have been a bonus for me as a player, but waiting on them wasn't a deal breaker, because again, I come back to the game play. It was already there. I wasn't in need of added stuff to make it fun.
Well if they were so aware then I think they would have done a better job at the product they put out than what they have done. But that's just my humble opinion.
This. We who will buy anyway are not their target market, because we'll buy. They want people who don't. And on the whole games have been dumbed down over the years. People prefer something they can dive into without three years of tutorials and as different from the others and inoffensive as possible (apparently).
I said this years ago about TS4 before it was released, and now I'll say it again about a hopefully much-improved TS5 that comes out someday and is a worthy Sims successor: stop making players wait years and pay for the same things over and over. Put seasons, weather, and pets in the base game, along with toggles to turn them off if players don't want them. Branch out with new ideas: people have been asking for a robust farm/ranch expansion pack for ages. There ARE new things to implement if the devs will only look.
That's a lot of stuff packs.
I got the impression (could be wrong) that they don't have an end date in mind on that thread over in Video Haven.
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I doubt a business as large as EA is just winging it.
Probably just PR speak to manage customer expectations.
What ever duration it turns out to be, I just hope it isn't going to be longer than TS3's lifespan. It's 2 years in, and I feel ready for a new base game. I really never got this feeling before during TS2/TS3 this soon.