I was being snarky back to that poster (who has continued to just be snarky in the thread, btw). I did understand what he was saying. I was literally just responding to them. It wasn't semantics, it was snark. Simple. Not sure why you insist on making a big deal out of it.
... Alrighty!
Talk about hyperbole--"people don't really enjoy the game that much." There are actually quite a few of us on here who do enjoy it. And quite a few on other forums who do enjoy it. And quite a few on Twitter who enjoy it. Sure some people don't enjoy the game that much - surprise - but broad statements where you speak for everyone are generally inaccurate. At this point, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Yes, I love the game as well, and just because I do does not mean that a lot of people do not. I wasn't speaking for everyone, I was just saying that people [generally] don't love the game that much, because omments on Kotaku, Twitter, Facebook, Metacritic, the forums, etc. are pretty much filled with comments about toddlers, lack of quality, this and that, blah blah blah. I'm not going to wait for EA to tell us that a lot of people are disappointed. That's just not good business, and EA didn't make their name in just any business - they made it in the publishing business, so they do know a thing or two about marketing and publicity.
I'd like to see them fine tune the emotions, mainly. I'd love some kind of deeper memory/scrapbook sort of system. To me pools doesn't change anything in a big way though I can concede that the ability to move around below ground was obviously a game-changer since it was apparently pretty complex for them to implement in this iteration. Most of the things I listed out, however, were things that I know other players are upset about with this game. I personally don't mind some linear gameplay and I don't really mind how they've implemented it in this version because I tend to ignore what I don't want to use and cheat or play around what doesn't work for whatever story I'm playing. I have cheat codes and I'm not afraid to use them. I'm not specifically a family player--I tend to use them for story advancement only so, while it would be nice to have toddlers back, not having them doesn't ruin my game. And family play, unfortunately, I'm one of the few people who want most interactions to be available to most sims rather than having some things specifically for immediate families (though the ability to group unrelated Sims together in a family unit would be cool, instead). I mean, I've got a long wish list of things I'd love to see but I'm happy to wait and see what they put out. I never dreamed of something like the club system and now I don't think I want another Sims game that doesn't include it.
What about the emotions need to be fine tuned? They are quite sporadic, at least for me (and I'm told that it's probably something to do with my game specifically ... despite having no CC/mods/anything other than good ole EA/Maxis produced content) but I also think that they wanted to go for an exaggerated, over the top style of play, to accentuate the melodrama in their game, much like a telenovela or something ... whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up to the player, and I find that most people don't like the frequent change of emotions in their game. The club system is also a great addition to the game.
I think the "flopped" concept though is again hyperbolic. I've seen @Writin_Reg mention once that there was a meeting where they didn't even mention TS4 but have seen, as mentioned, people state that they have brought it up more than once in their financials. I suspect it's done better than quite a few people would have liked but likely not as well as EA wanted.
It depends if you think that the initial period after the launch defines the success of a game or not ... I personally wouldn't put too much emphasis on the initial release, as hype trains are a very real thing that can skew numbers to make it appear as though something is doing better than it actually is, because success/failure should not be solely determined by the number of sales, but by the user-generated feedback of said product. Of course, one leads the other: positive feedback drives sales, whereas positive sales numbers just drive statistics and marketing campaigns. So focusing on the sales as the defining factor of success/failure is, in my eyes, misguided.
TS2 was an incredibly well done life sim, especially for its time. TS3 rode it's skirts for the initial release, I believe. I'm quite sure TS3 was so popular at first because of how well done TS2 was--people were excited for the next version (I'm sure quite a few people developed more of a love for it after playing it for a bit). I think, in turn, TS4 has taken a bit of a hit because it's coming off of TS3. Was the base game lacking? Yep. But, add to that the fact that TS3, especially towards the end (particularly Island Paradise) was pretty dang buggy and what are people going to think? The previous game had some stability issues and the new game is missing some things we expect--should I buy it? I'm not surprised in the least that there's so much of a difference between the releases of the two games. I do understand (for those who are going to jump on me with both feet) that some people had perfect experiences with TS3 but, let's be honest here. If a big portion of people can claim to have problems, some people having perfectly running games doesn't negate the issues any more than it does in this version. There was obviously something going on with how that game was designed.
Yes, I agree that the only reason that TS3 did so well was because of what TS2 produced. I wouldn't say that TS3 was a bad game ... because it was actually pretty well made in my eyes. It did have a lot going for it, but the rabbit holes completely ruined the game for me, as well as a lot of other people. I am certain that TS3 did not have as much bugs as TS4's base game ... and as much as I despise WA, I do not think it was as messy as GTW and their retail system. TS3 had its issues, but its foundation (technically) was up to par with TS2. It felt completely different (in a bad way), but I do think that it was decent early on.
TS4 has brought back something that was missing. Quirk, personality, who knows ... but there are a few things that I don't like, such as Teens/YA's/Adults/Elders all being the same with a few differences, or that they neglected family play as much as they did. That being said, the game continues to chug along in the right direction ... lots of people don't see it, and perhaps it will always entirely be personal opinion, but I do think that the game will get better ... I don't think it helps, though, to act as if it wasn't deplorable how the game was initially launched. That is just a standard that I'm not willing to accept. Even though I think that the game is good, and I like playing it, there are a few things that I felt should not have been implemented had they not been reworked over and over again until polished...
The continued problem with your statements about how many people dislike the game is that it's your perception. It's based on what you've seen online, which really can't be taken as any sort of accurate statistic. People have a tendency to talk louder and longer when they're upset about something. And people see things differently, even when viewing the same thing. Another simmer and I were chatting once about the previous forums--she didn't like how the game looked and constantly felt persecuted over there and outnumbered by those who did; I liked how the game looked and my experience was almost the opposite. I regularly had people comment on my intelligence, financial choices, taste, etc. We both were essentially wandering around the same forums, probably reading many of the same threads and had completely different perspectives. Same thing with what you're saying. @Scobre mentioned, in this thread, that her experience when researching whether to buy this game or not was closer to a 50/50 split on how many liked the game versus disliked it. Someone who really loves the game may focus on fansites that cater to TS4 fans and hardly ever see the negatives. I'm not saying there aren't people who dislike this game and proclaim it loudly because there obviously are but I don't agree that it's a much as you're convinced of.
They definitely added some exaggeration to these sims and I actually like that a bit better than previous versions. Quite a few people have mentioned seeing their sims change emotions rather quickly. I don't really notice it happening that often for my sims but I may just not be seeing it the same way you are.
They need to add more emotions. At the very least fear, though I'd like to see something like envy, as well, and maybe rebellious, though that one could also work as a temp trait for teens. They also need to tone down the happy. Massively reduce the environmental buffs and add in more negative ones. Make it harder to get happy. @Neia was sharing some great ideas about altering some of the happy buffs to fine and reserving happy for more important events or experiences. I'd also like to see uncomfortable added as a buff on negative emotions to help balance out the la-la-land feel of the game. I'd love it if traits had just a bit more impact on their emotions. I really think they've got a good foundation for this but it needs to be developed and tweaked a bit more.
I agree about the rabbit holes. But I don't agree about TS3 having fewer bugs. TS4 is pretty solid. While I can't discount those who do have issues (one player seems to get every single possible bug available for this game), I really don't see how they could outnumber TS3s bugginess. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoyed TS3, had all of the EPs except the Katy Perry one, but I lived with the issues and actually counted myself lucky that I hardly ever had my game crash or enough issues to keep me from playing (except IP).
WA was one of my favorite EPs but I don't really get comparing it to GTW--is it because I mentioned it in light of the task-driven activities? I was actually paraphrasing from another thread where people were doing that. I like GTW but if I were given a choice, I'd say I prefer WA over GTW but that's because I like the theme better. I would have preferred something with self-employment and home-based businesses for GTW but I actually enjoy the two careers I've played. Really if they would just add multi-use lots, I can make my own home-based business using that expansion. And I'll say it again, there are old favorites I'd love to see back but, honestly, I've been excited to see the new stuff they come up with because I think they've been doing a good job with that.
I do agree it had issues when it released but I didn't find the unpatched base game deplorable at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I wouldn't have been averse to them postponing the release for another 6 months and/or including toddlers in it.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
> @PHOEBESMOM601 said: > DolittleRoller wrote: » > > Face it. Sims 4 is the best selling iteration in the sims franchise. It is far more complex than sims 3 and it has way better open world gameplay. On top of that is far more customizable with the new Create a Style (which sims 3 didn't have). The toddlers are also more complex. This is why sims 4 is selling so well. It is life. > > > > > > > This site would disagree with you. Since it's a retail sales chart I'm sure it doesn't include internal figures for EA digital but I sincerely doubt that it's going to be a difference of 14 million. >
> The Sims - 16 Million > The Sims2 - 6 Million > The Sims3 - 10 Million > The Sims4 - 2 Million
2 Million > 16+6+10 Million
Sims 4 is literally the most advanced game right now. We don't even deserve to have it. It is too good for us. Which is why everyone has gone back to playing the sims 3 and 2.
The continued problem with your statements about how many people dislike the game is that it's your perception. It's based on what you've seen online, which really can't be taken as any sort of accurate statistic. People have a tendency to talk louder and longer when they're upset about something. And people see things differently, even when viewing the same thing. Another simmer and I were chatting once about the previous forums--she didn't like how the game looked and constantly felt persecuted over there and outnumbered by those who did; I liked how the game looked and my experience was almost the opposite. I regularly had people comment on my intelligence, financial choices, taste, etc. We both were essentially wandering around the same forums, probably reading many of the same threads and had completely different perspectives. Same thing with what you're saying. @Scobre mentioned, in this thread, that her experience when researching whether to buy this game or not was closer to a 50/50 split on how many liked the game versus disliked it. Someone who really loves the game may focus on fansites that cater to TS4 fans and hardly ever see the negatives. I'm not saying there aren't people who dislike this game and proclaim it loudly because there obviously are but I don't agree that it's a much as you're convinced of.
Because the people on twitter/facebook/the forums/review sites actually do make up their userbase ... I wasn't solely talking about just the forums, but even if I was, they pay attention to these forums for a reason.
I agree that it's all based on speculation, but there will never be any sort of "data analysis" unless an analyst takes the time/effort to do so, and/or if EA/Maxis releases information about their data mining process, which will most likely not happen. Most of their statistics are gained via online applications ... so, as reason suggests, it is probable that if someone will answer an online survey for EA/Maxis, they are likely familiar with online things in general like Facebook, Twitter, the forums. Why is it so ridiculous to reach the conclusion that outspoken customers get more attention, even if they are a smaller group? And I'm not talking specifically about people angry about toddlers - just in principle, people who give their feedback, v. those that don't, should be favoured.
People keep saying that the forum is filled with the "loudest minority", but they also represent the users that will take the time to give their feedback and ideas. Just because the forums may or may not be an accurate depiction of their user base (though we do have all these patches....) is besides the point; why are we putting emphasis on a majority that apparently doesn't visit the forums, and does not provide us with their opinions? Why is it that being a smaller sized group means that we are 'less than', since the majority - by default - is presumed to enjoy the game since they find no reason to share their experience? We don't even know what they are thinking, so the most obvious route is to see what people are actually saying, since we don't have any statistics to go off of.
They definitely added some exaggeration to these sims and I actually like that a bit better than previous versions. Quite a few people have mentioned seeing their sims change emotions rather quickly. I don't really notice it happening that often for my sims but I may just not be seeing it the same way you are.
Yes, it definitely is based on personal preference. I notice my Sims going through a range of emotions. It doesn't always bother me ... sometimes it's more annoying, but on the whole, I like having them in the game.
They need to add more emotions. At the very least fear, though I'd like to see something like envy, as well, and maybe rebellious, though that one could also work as a temp trait for teens. They also need to tone down the happy. Massively reduce the environmental buffs and add in more negative ones. Make it harder to get happy. @Neia was sharing some great ideas about altering some of the happy buffs to fine and reserving happy for more important events or experiences. I'd also like to see uncomfortable added as a buff on negative emotions to help balance out the la-la-land feel of the game. I'd love it if traits had just a bit more impact on their emotions. I really think they've got a good foundation for this but it needs to be developed and tweaked a bit more.
I think more negative emotions/traits/consequences would be good for the game as a whole. I don't know exactly what needs to be developed though. They are pretty good how they are in terms of fleshing it out. When a Sim is angry, I really do feel that they portray the emotion accurately and consistently. Same with the other emotions.
I agree about the rabbit holes. But I don't agree about TS3 having fewer bugs. TS4 is pretty solid. While I can't discount those who do have issues (one player seems to get every single possible bug available for this game), I really don't see how they could outnumber TS3s bugginess. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoyed TS3, had all of the EPs except the Katy Perry one, but I lived with the issues and actually counted myself lucky that I hardly ever had my game crash or enough issues to keep me from playing (except IP).
I was talking about the base games, not the entirety of TS3. I did not feel/see bugs in TS3 as much as I do in TS4. Open world was ambitious, but I don't know if it's as tricky as multitasking and emotions.
WA was one of my favorite EPs but I don't really get comparing it to GTW--is it because I mentioned it in light of the task-driven activities? I was actually paraphrasing from another thread where people were doing that. I like GTW but if I were given a choice, I'd say I prefer WA over GTW but that's because I like the theme better. I would have preferred something with self-employment and home-based businesses for GTW but I actually enjoy the two careers I've played. Really if they would just add multi-use lots, I can make my own home-based business using that expansion. And I'll say it again, there are old favorites I'd love to see back but, honestly, I've been excited to see the new stuff they come up with because I think they've been doing a good job with that.
I was comparing the quality of their work, not their concepts. I prefer GTW much more than WA, but I think that WA was the better pack in terms of development.
I do agree it had issues when it released but I didn't find the unpatched base game deplorable at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I wouldn't have been averse to them postponing the release for another 6 months and/or including toddlers in it.
TS3 did have toddlers ... but they also fleshed things out in terms of life stages. Not many complaints from me in that regard. They also had an idea (Open world) and seemed to try and develop it fully. TS4 feels as though it has some really cool features but they feel unfinished. It feels rushed.
I'd actually be surprised if they completely left the pc market. The whole series has been on pc from the get-go and while EA may be happy to push for a new market, I don't think they'd be foolish enough to move so far away from their established market (yeah, I know some people think they already have). I absolutely do not believe they'll move it exclusively to a mobile market...at least not in the next version or two. I do like your idea of having more than one non-mobile platform, i.e. a pc and a laptop version. And I suspect if they ever venture into VR with the Sims, they'll be a few years behind other developers on that because they have a bit of a stigma, it seems, with making them too realistic. I can't completely blame them, though, since I think it could be a bit off-putting to, for instance, drown your "excess" sims kid if they look hyper-realistic. Now imagine doing that in VR.
Yeah I mean it worked for the Sims 2, so I hope they do multiple platforms again. I really hope and I think there is still a large market for PC games. I mean Steam has taken off quite well. Yeah that's true about the VR. I'm just imagining someone trying to do an angry poop while wearing a VR gear. XD
I agree it is hard to tell who is the majority and minority with things, but by the end it doesn't matter. What matters is that those that choose to speak are able to give feedback and ideas anyway they can. I know it took me forever to get the guts to join forums. What happened to SimCity being treated badly is what finally pushed me to. I didn't want the same to happen to the Sims. I wanted to give my voice while I could and still fairly have free time before marriage or kids ever happen. There will probably be a time in which I won't be vocal anymore or have time to be on forums again. I don't know when that is, but life happens. Breaks are nice though.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
The continued problem with your statements about how many people dislike the game is that it's your perception. It's based on what you've seen online, which really can't be taken as any sort of accurate statistic. People have a tendency to talk louder and longer when they're upset about something. And people see things differently, even when viewing the same thing. Another simmer and I were chatting once about the previous forums--she didn't like how the game looked and constantly felt persecuted over there and outnumbered by those who did; I liked how the game looked and my experience was almost the opposite. I regularly had people comment on my intelligence, financial choices, taste, etc. We both were essentially wandering around the same forums, probably reading many of the same threads and had completely different perspectives. Same thing with what you're saying. @Scobre mentioned, in this thread, that her experience when researching whether to buy this game or not was closer to a 50/50 split on how many liked the game versus disliked it. Someone who really loves the game may focus on fansites that cater to TS4 fans and hardly ever see the negatives. I'm not saying there aren't people who dislike this game and proclaim it loudly because there obviously are but I don't agree that it's a much as you're convinced of.
Because the people on twitter/facebook/the forums/review sites actually do make up their userbase ... I wasn't solely talking about just the forums, but even if I was, they pay attention to these forums for a reason.
I agree that it's all based on speculation, but there will never be any sort of "data analysis" unless an analyst takes the time/effort to do so, and/or if EA/Maxis releases information about their data mining process, which will most likely not happen. Most of their statistics are gained via online applications ... so, as reason suggests, it is probable that if someone will answer an online survey for EA/Maxis, they are likely familiar with online things in general like Facebook, Twitter, the forums. Why is it so ridiculous to reach the conclusion that outspoken customers get more attention, even if they are a smaller group? And I'm not talking specifically about people angry about toddlers - just in principle, people who give their feedback, v. those that don't, should be favoured.
People keep saying that the forum is filled with the "loudest minority", but they also represent the users that will take the time to give their feedback and ideas. Just because the forums may or may not be an accurate depiction of their user base (though we do have all these patches....) is besides the point; why are we putting emphasis on a majority that apparently doesn't visit the forums, and does not provide us with their opinions? Why is it that being a smaller sized group means that we are 'less than', since the majority - by default - is presumed to enjoy the game since they find no reason to share their experience? We don't even know what they are thinking, so the most obvious route is to see what people are actually saying, since we don't have any statistics to go off of.
They definitely added some exaggeration to these sims and I actually like that a bit better than previous versions. Quite a few people have mentioned seeing their sims change emotions rather quickly. I don't really notice it happening that often for my sims but I may just not be seeing it the same way you are.
Yes, it definitely is based on personal preference. I notice my Sims going through a range of emotions. It doesn't always bother me ... sometimes it's more annoying, but on the whole, I like having them in the game.
They need to add more emotions. At the very least fear, though I'd like to see something like envy, as well, and maybe rebellious, though that one could also work as a temp trait for teens. They also need to tone down the happy. Massively reduce the environmental buffs and add in more negative ones. Make it harder to get happy. @Neia was sharing some great ideas about altering some of the happy buffs to fine and reserving happy for more important events or experiences. I'd also like to see uncomfortable added as a buff on negative emotions to help balance out the la-la-land feel of the game. I'd love it if traits had just a bit more impact on their emotions. I really think they've got a good foundation for this but it needs to be developed and tweaked a bit more.
I think more negative emotions/traits/consequences would be good for the game as a whole. I don't know exactly what needs to be developed though. They are pretty good how they are in terms of fleshing it out. When a Sim is angry, I really do feel that they portray the emotion accurately and consistently. Same with the other emotions.
I agree about the rabbit holes. But I don't agree about TS3 having fewer bugs. TS4 is pretty solid. While I can't discount those who do have issues (one player seems to get every single possible bug available for this game), I really don't see how they could outnumber TS3s bugginess. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoyed TS3, had all of the EPs except the Katy Perry one, but I lived with the issues and actually counted myself lucky that I hardly ever had my game crash or enough issues to keep me from playing (except IP).
I was talking about the base games, not the entirety of TS3. I did not feel/see bugs in TS3 as much as I do in TS4. Open world was ambitious, but I don't know if it's as tricky as multitasking and emotions.
WA was one of my favorite EPs but I don't really get comparing it to GTW--is it because I mentioned it in light of the task-driven activities? I was actually paraphrasing from another thread where people were doing that. I like GTW but if I were given a choice, I'd say I prefer WA over GTW but that's because I like the theme better. I would have preferred something with self-employment and home-based businesses for GTW but I actually enjoy the two careers I've played. Really if they would just add multi-use lots, I can make my own home-based business using that expansion. And I'll say it again, there are old favorites I'd love to see back but, honestly, I've been excited to see the new stuff they come up with because I think they've been doing a good job with that.
I was comparing the quality of their work, not their concepts. I prefer GTW much more than WA, but I think that WA was the better pack in terms of development.
I do agree it had issues when it released but I didn't find the unpatched base game deplorable at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I wouldn't have been averse to them postponing the release for another 6 months and/or including toddlers in it.
TS3 did have toddlers ... but they also fleshed things out in terms of life stages. Not many complaints from me in that regard. They also had an idea (Open world) and seemed to try and develop it fully. TS4 feels as though it has some really cool features but they feel unfinished. It feels rushed.
I wasn't solely talking about the forums here either and I never said anything about whether people who speak up should have their requests or issues handled. I think it absolutely makes sense for them to listen to whomever is talking, whether they like the game or not, whether they're a majority or not. They may not, however, act on what they hear if there isn't enough of a request to make it feasible. They have limited resources (time, finances, etc.) so they won't be able to implement every request, even if those making the requests or complaints are the loudest. It's an unfortunate but simple fact. I'm not sure it's even realistic to say that those who give their feedback should be favored because they are a business first and foremost and they have to produce a profit. If a small, loud minority keeps asking for, say, playable narwhals to be added to the game, no matter how loud they manage to get it would still probably be a bad use of the dev's resources to fulfill that request because there are tons of other things people want and by making something that fits what the majority wants, they'll sell the product better. It's not always fair, unfortunately.
I also never said that I think those who dislike the game are in the minority. I simply don't know and, to be perfectly frank, I don't much care. Someone else not liking the game really doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. I do think everyone deserves to be able to voice their opinions, good or bad, and to be heard but I don't think Maxis is required to fulfill everyone's requests.
I never actually played TS3 base alone. I picked up the game in one of those combo packs with Supernatural and WA, I think, so I never got to see how the base game played without some addons.
I'm not sure how I feel regarding the development or quality of GTW versus WA. Or the game overall. I do agree TS4 was rushed--there's no doubt in my mind. I'm pretty well convinced that pools and ghosts were initially planned for the base game and had to be put off and patched in later. But I feel like part of the problem for this version of the game is that people are looking for the WOW factor and not finding it because the features they are including are mostly pretty subtle, in a sense. It's not open world and being able to color everything in the most bizarre pattern you can find (or the prettiest)--it's emotions and multitasking and the club system. For me, I have no problem being patient as they continue to develop the game because I'm actually enjoying watching them slowly add in what I feel like should be actual fundamental functions in the Sims from here on out. Sure I'd like to see weather and toddlers and I'd be alright with pets and supernaturals, etc., but I like these less eye-popping features that, to me, have the potential to add some incredible depth to my gameplay and storytelling.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I'd actually be surprised if they completely left the pc market. The whole series has been on pc from the get-go and while EA may be happy to push for a new market, I don't think they'd be foolish enough to move so far away from their established market (yeah, I know some people think they already have). I absolutely do not believe they'll move it exclusively to a mobile market...at least not in the next version or two. I do like your idea of having more than one non-mobile platform, i.e. a pc and a laptop version. And I suspect if they ever venture into VR with the Sims, they'll be a few years behind other developers on that because they have a bit of a stigma, it seems, with making them too realistic. I can't completely blame them, though, since I think it could be a bit off-putting to, for instance, drown your "excess" sims kid if they look hyper-realistic. Now imagine doing that in VR.
Yeah I mean it worked for the Sims 2, so I hope they do multiple platforms again. I really hope and I think there is still a large market for PC games. I mean Steam has taken off quite well. Yeah that's true about the VR. I'm just imagining someone trying to do an angry poop while wearing a VR gear. XD
I agree it is hard to tell who is the majority and minority with things, but by the end it doesn't matter. What matters is that those that choose to speak are able to give feedback and ideas anyway they can. I know it took me forever to get the guts to join forums. What happened to SimCity being treated badly is what finally pushed me to. I didn't want the same to happen to the Sims. I wanted to give my voice while I could and still fairly have free time before marriage or kids ever happen. There will probably be a time in which I won't be vocal anymore or have time to be on forums again. I don't know when that is, but life happens. Breaks are nice though.
Yay, solidarity! Seriously, you're absolutely right that it doesn't matter because in the end we're all simmers and most of us are pretty passionate about this game series.
Yeah, kids are a HUGE time sink. It's like they expect you to feed them and interact with them on a daily basis.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Yay, solidarity! Seriously, you're absolutely right that it doesn't matter because in the end we're all simmers and most of us are pretty passionate about this game series.
Yeah, kids are a HUGE time sink. It's like they expect you to feed them and interact with them on a daily basis.
Yep Simmers Unite!
Yeah, just raising my nephews has been tough. I do think I want to adopt someday.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Yay, solidarity! Seriously, you're absolutely right that it doesn't matter because in the end we're all simmers and most of us are pretty passionate about this game series.
Yeah, kids are a HUGE time sink. It's like they expect you to feed them and interact with them on a daily basis.
Yep Simmers Unite!
Yeah, just raising my nephews has been tough. I do think I want to adopt someday.
I wanted to adopt at one point. My spousal unit wasn't into it. Now, I want to sell my kids off to someone else.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I wasn't solely talking about the forums here either and I never said anything about whether people who speak up should have their requests or issues handled. I think it absolutely makes sense for them to listen to whomever is talking, whether they like the game or not, whether they're a majority or not. They may not, however, act on what they hear if there isn't enough of a request to make it feasible. They have limited resources (time, finances, etc.) so they won't be able to implement every request, even if those making the requests or complaints are the loudest. It's an unfortunate but simple fact. I'm not sure it's even realistic to say that those who give their feedback should be favored because they are a business first and foremost and they have to produce a profit. If a small, loud minority keeps asking for, say, playable narwhals to be added to the game, no matter how loud they manage to get it would still probably be a bad use of the dev's resources to fulfill that request because there are tons of other things people want and by making something that fits what the majority wants, they'll sell the product better. It's not always fair, unfortunately.
So who are the people requesting things in the game? The people on the forums, and various other forms of social media, but the forums are the most obvious place, because there are places specifically designed by EA/Maxis to hear peoples feedback and ideas.
Of course they shouldn't act on every single request ... so if the only people requesting things are people that are speaking up, which are mainly going to be on the forums, then logic dictates that you want to pay attention to the forums, and thus the point of my argument surfaces: the forums, however small or large, is an important piece that EA/Maxis is trying not to neglect, since they can't get that same information from a survey/telemetry. So, in essence, the forums stand to reason for being a pretty good representation of what people want, because they are the most likely place for people to go to express exactly what they want in the game ... this was in response to you stating that the forums are not an "accurate representation" of how the game is going, when it is designed specifically so that EA/Maxis can hear from people as to how their game is going...
I also never said that I think those who dislike the game are in the minority. I simply don't know and, to be perfectly frank, I don't much care. Someone else not liking the game really doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. I do think everyone deserves to be able to voice their opinions, good or bad, and to be heard but I don't think Maxis is required to fulfill everyone's requests.
I wasn't saying that the people who dislike the game are in the minority ... I was saying that the forums are apparently the minority, as they are not an accurate representation of the community, according to you. Or do you wish to clarify? I don't have any expectation that EA/Maxis should fulfill every request, but the forums are more important than people are making them out to be, whenever they say that the forums are "just a part" of the community, as if their value is diminished for not being the majority. I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what you are saying. If you wish to clarify, please sidestep yet again ... it's becoming annoying to see you respond with something like, "I did not write this exact statement so I did not mean this at all, and here is what I 'really' meant..." when I am legitimately just taking the meaning of the words that you strung together.
I never actually played TS3 base alone. I picked up the game in one of those combo packs with Supernatural and WA, I think, so I never got to see how the base game played without some addons.
Maybe if you can try TS3 base game, or even TS2 in the near future ... they may feel empty compared to TS4, since I did feel like I could do quite a bit in TS4's base game, but the mechanics and stuff in those base games are more succinct and polished than TS4.
I'm not sure how I feel regarding the development or quality of GTW versus WA. Or the game overall. I do agree TS4 was rushed--there's no doubt in my mind. I'm pretty well convinced that pools and ghosts were initially planned for the base game and had to be put off and patched in later. But I feel like part of the problem for this version of the game is that people are looking for the WOW factor and not finding it because the features they are including are mostly pretty subtle, in a sense. It's not open world and being able to color everything in the most bizarre pattern you can find (or the prettiest)--it's emotions and multitasking and the club system. For me, I have no problem being patient as they continue to develop the game because I'm actually enjoying watching them slowly add in what I feel like should be actual fundamental functions in the Sims from here on out. Sure I'd like to see weather and toddlers and I'd be alright with pets and supernaturals, etc., but I like these less eye-popping features that, to me, have the potential to add some incredible depth to my gameplay and storytelling.
I am pretty patient as well, and I agree that the game has a lot to offer that just isn't being utilised/appreciated by Simmers ... I think that EA and Maxis are making more valiant efforts to create the things that they want while trying to help the people that are looking for that 'wow' factor. It may take a little while. But the reality of the situation is that if there is a large group of people (See: forums, facebook, twitter, etc.) expressing that they want certain content, there is going to be some validity in exploring that. Of course they are doing this while maintaining their personal expectations of the game, so it's a bit of a balancing act ... and they can't always fulfill customer demand unfortunately, so they need to work towards the next best thing.
I think that people are looking for things like open-world-and-CaSt-esque features, but can also appreciate the subtler aspects as well if they are done correctly ... I just don't really see TS4 doing enough in the base game/EP features. TS2 had toddlers. TS3 had open world. TS4 had emotions and multitasking, which are extremely great features that are undervalued (since no one really points out that these are awesome feats in the history of The Sims), but they also seem to cause a lot of problems for development and game mechanics ... emotions multiply the interactions by so much, since each emotion changes how you interact with the world entirely, and mulitasking is of course a very complicated system, since there are so many things going on at once. On top of that, TS4 was supposed to be accessible to as many people as possible (or so that story goes ... which I think became even more prevalent after they scrapped Olympus or whatever) including people with lower end computers. I think that they pulled this off, but I would like to see them stretch the game specs out a bit, and create a game that is more complicated in terms of programming and physical objects that are within the game itself.
Not putting stuff packs on sale, and all other Sim products are not on sale just the base game, expansion packs, and game packs for Sims 4. Sad sale once more.
1. The Sims 2
2. The Sims 3
3. The Sims 4 (5 years later its decent)
4. The Sims 1
You probably should have directed this comment to @DolittleRoller since they were the one implying the team being smaller is a direct correlation to the quality of the game.
On the other hand, companies don't waste resources on failing products so the fact that the game still has a large development team is likely an indicator that's it's at least doing well enough to warrant the expense of a large team.
I could have mentioned @DolittleRoller but you were the one that responded to his assertion by saying that more people than ever have been working on the game, which implies that you agree with his logic. So both of you should have been tagged.
Companies don't usually waste resources on failing products, but failing products with a proven market tend to be revamped to fit with the current consumer demand, which is what's currently happening with TS4.
But EA said The Sims 4 was their most popular game last time they spoke about it AND that it was only getting more and more popular.
So while it may have started off bad, EA are extremely happy with the success.
Where have they said this? (About it being their most popular game) I'm just curious cause you said it in that "something question about comparisons" thread and I had inquiried about where this was said. I googled it and couldn't find anything like that. I mean it's a popular game but come on games like SW Battlefront that have already sold 12 million copies in 8 months seem quite a bit more popular than TS4. Fifa 16 sold 4.9 million copies in its first week. I'm not even sure about Madden/Battlefield etc. How is The Sims 4 their most popular game? Don't get me wrong I love the sims, didn't like battlefront(I still have 1 and 2, no comparison), fifa etc but it's pretty obvious it's not EA's most popular game. I'm really just pretty curious where you found it or heard/read it is all.
When is the next sims 3 EP coming out? Island Paradiso was so good! Hope the sims team are working on another EP for the most advanced sims game to date: Sims 3
I wasn't solely talking about the forums here either and I never said anything about whether people who speak up should have their requests or issues handled. I think it absolutely makes sense for them to listen to whomever is talking, whether they like the game or not, whether they're a majority or not. They may not, however, act on what they hear if there isn't enough of a request to make it feasible. They have limited resources (time, finances, etc.) so they won't be able to implement every request, even if those making the requests or complaints are the loudest. It's an unfortunate but simple fact. I'm not sure it's even realistic to say that those who give their feedback should be favored because they are a business first and foremost and they have to produce a profit. If a small, loud minority keeps asking for, say, playable narwhals to be added to the game, no matter how loud they manage to get it would still probably be a bad use of the dev's resources to fulfill that request because there are tons of other things people want and by making something that fits what the majority wants, they'll sell the product better. It's not always fair, unfortunately.
So who are the people requesting things in the game? The people on the forums, and various other forms of social media, but the forums are the most obvious place, because there are places specifically designed by EA/Maxis to hear peoples feedback and ideas.
Of course they shouldn't act on every single request ... so if the only people requesting things are people that are speaking up, which are mainly going to be on the forums, then logic dictates that you want to pay attention to the forums, and thus the point of my argument surfaces: the forums, however small or large, is an important piece that EA/Maxis is trying not to neglect, since they can't get that same information from a survey/telemetry. So, in essence, the forums stand to reason for being a pretty good representation of what people want, because they are the most likely place for people to go to express exactly what they want in the game ... this was in response to you stating that the forums are not an "accurate representation" of how the game is going, when it is designed specifically so that EA/Maxis can hear from people as to how their game is going...
I also never said that I think those who dislike the game are in the minority. I simply don't know and, to be perfectly frank, I don't much care. Someone else not liking the game really doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. I do think everyone deserves to be able to voice their opinions, good or bad, and to be heard but I don't think Maxis is required to fulfill everyone's requests.
I wasn't saying that the people who dislike the game in the minority ... I was saying that the forums are apparently the minority, as they are not an accurate representation of the community, according to you. Or do you wish to clarify? I don't have any expectation that EA/Maxis should fulfill every request, but the forums are more important than people are making them out to be, whenever they say that the forums are "just a part" of the community, as if their value is diminished for not being the majority. I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what you are saying. If you wish to clarify, please sidestep yet again ... it's becoming annoying to see you respond with something like, "I did not write this exact statement so I did not mean this at all, and here is what I 'really' meant..." when I am legitimately just taking the meaning of the words that you strung together.
I never actually played TS3 base alone. I picked up the game in one of those combo packs with Supernatural and WA, I think, so I never got to see how the base game played without some addons.
Maybe if you can try TS3 base game, or even TS2 in the near future ... they may feel empty compared to TS4, since I did feel like I could do quite a bit in TS4's base game, but the mechanics and stuff in those base games are more succinct and polished than TS4.
I'm not sure how I feel regarding the development or quality of GTW versus WA. Or the game overall. I do agree TS4 was rushed--there's no doubt in my mind. I'm pretty well convinced that pools and ghosts were initially planned for the base game and had to be put off and patched in later. But I feel like part of the problem for this version of the game is that people are looking for the WOW factor and not finding it because the features they are including are mostly pretty subtle, in a sense. It's not open world and being able to color everything in the most bizarre pattern you can find (or the prettiest)--it's emotions and multitasking and the club system. For me, I have no problem being patient as they continue to develop the game because I'm actually enjoying watching them slowly add in what I feel like should be actual fundamental functions in the Sims from here on out. Sure I'd like to see weather and toddlers and I'd be alright with pets and supernaturals, etc., but I like these less eye-popping features that, to me, have the potential to add some incredible depth to my gameplay and storytelling.
I am pretty patient as well, and I agree that the game has a lot to offer that just isn't being utilised/appreciated by Simmers ... I think that EA and Maxis are making more valiant efforts to create the things that they want while trying to help the people that are looking for that 'wow' factor. It may take a little while. But the reality of the situation is that if there is a large group of people (See: forums, facebook, twitter, etc.) expressing that they want certain content, there is going to be some validity in exploring that. Of course they are doing this while maintaining their personal expectations of the game, so it's a bit of a balancing act ... and they can't always fulfill customer demand unfortunately, so they need to work towards the next best thing.
I think that people are looking for things like open-world-and-CaSt-esque features, but can also appreciate the subtler aspects as well if they are done correctly ... I just don't really see TS4 doing enough in the base game/EP features. TS2 had toddlers. TS3 had open world. TS4 had emotions and multitasking, which are extremely great features that are undervalued (since no one really points out that these are awesome feats in the history of The Sims), but they also seem to cause a lot of problems for development and game mechanics ... emotions multiply the interactions by so much, since each emotion changes how you interact with the world entirely, and mulitasking is of course a very complicated system, since there are so many things going on at once. On top of that, TS4 was supposed to be accessible to as many people as possible (or so that story goes ... which I think became even more prevalent after they scrapped Olympus or whatever) including people with lower end computers. I think that they pulled this off, but I would like to see them stretch the game specs out a bit, and create a game that is more complicated in terms of programming and physical objects that are within the game itself.
You know what, we're obviously talking in circles around each other. I'm actually getting tired of you stepping back and restating things as if you were saying the same thing the whole time. I never said the forums were the minority or that they weren't an accurate representation of the fanbase so please show me where I stated that. In fact, I've been pretty clear that I don't have any kind of statistics on who says what where and how many people say they like the game and how many hate it. But please feel free to continue harping on this if it pleases you.
I actually popped into TS2 when they first started offering UC for free. I remembered how much I enjoyed the game at the time but at present, I can't get past the graphics or the annoying time travel thing where you leave for a whole day and come home to morning again. I do think TS2 had some really great gameplay, I just don't have any interest in it anymore. TS3, on the other hand, I would probably pop into on occasion if I wanted to use the space on my computer for the game but I don't because I've got plenty of other games I play and I'm enjoying TS4.
I think there's a pretty large group of people who completely miss the beauty of the club system. I've seen quite a few people just casually toss out "and clubs" as if they weren't anything other than a way for your sim to socialize. And it's quite a solid feature. I think people are more willing to appreciate the subtler aspects when the flashier ones are in play, as well.
Beyond that, it's been an interesting discussion so I appreciate it.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
You know what, we're obviously talking in circles around each other. I'm actually getting tired of you stepping back and restating things as if you were saying the same thing the whole time. I never said the forums were the minority or that they weren't an accurate representation of the fanbase so please show me where I stated that. In fact, I've been pretty clear that I don't have any kind of statistics on who says what where and how many people say they like the game and how many hate it. But please feel free to continue harping on this if it pleases you.
When I said: I was using the negative reception of the game as a factor in leading me to believe that the game doesn't isn't doing well if - surprise - people don't really enjoy the game that much. Perhaps you require EA to explicitly state what the sales figures are until your judgement is made, and I will concede to that argument because I agree as well, but until we get any sort of information, I am going to speculate. If you wish to denounce me for that, then so be it, and you can continue to use inconclusive statements during the interim, since we don't have "cold hard facts" and thus are incapable of making any definitive conclusions ... I also recall someone posting on the forums about the discussions that EA has with their shareholders and that TS4 didn't really come up ... odd, considering EA had no problem doing that with TS3's launch. What does that mean when they are silent, or sparse with positive recognition of their sales? I guess we're supposed to believe that they are just being private or something.
You responded with:
Talk about hyperbole--"people don't really enjoy the game that much." There are actually quite a few of us on here who do enjoy it. And quite a few on other forums who do enjoy it. And quite a few on Twitter who enjoy it. Sure some people don't enjoy the game that much - surprise - but broad statements where you speak for everyone are generally inaccurate. At this point, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
You were saying that I was being hyperbolic by saying that people don't really enjoy the game that much ... which I guess is a bold statement, but the truth is that a lot of people really don't. Sure, you can say that I don't have definitive numbers or statistics that suggests this, but it is overwhelmingly apparent when you look at Facebook, Twitter, the forums, etc. compared to all the positive remarks that people make about the game. I may not be reading every single thread or comment, but skimming through comments and threads, I see a lot more negative than positive, which suggests that people are not enjoying the game all that much compared to other Sim games ... so, point being: you can use forums and threads and whatever else that attracts Simmers as a way of telling how the game is doing without explicitly looking for statistics from EA, or (naively) thinking that they would actually tell us if the game was doing poorly, since they have a history of blatant PR control.
He got seriously reprimanded for that twitter thing ... LOL. But they would never tell you.
...
I said:
Companies don't usually waste resources on failing products, but failing products with a proven market tend to be revamped to fit with the current consumer demand, which is what's currently happening with TS4.
You responded:
As for your second point, you have no proof that the game is failing so you can't accurately assume...
That whole "accurately assume" thing is what I'm debating right now, since every time that I tell you that I am using the power of observation as an indicator of the games well-being, you respond with something like "it's just your perception" or "you have no statistics" (other than user generated feedback, reviews, comments, complaints, etc. etc. etc.) ... which I understand is a valid concern, but I am also telling you that I am using Facebook, Twitter, the forums to come to that conclusion ... if you are using the same things and coming to a different conclusion, then I would like to read what you're reading, because you are debating the validity of my observations either because you observe something differently (which you've alluded to but have not pushed that point at all really) or because you doubt my assertions as anecdotes, bias, etc. etc., to which I've responded by saying that I love TS4, and (in other posts) that I support the dev's, but I cannot ignore the community's concerns because the comparison between TS4/TS2/TS3 in certain areas reveals a lot of issues ... like I've said previously, there are lots of great things in TS4, but there are also lots of things that are wrong - in other areas- that shouldn't have been given to us when it was. Can I cite specifically what every single problem is? No, unfortunately not, I just know that the technical issues have never been as obvious as they are in TS4, and then when you think about the fact that they had missed some things before launch ... it just adds to the fact that they rushed the game out there to meet a deadline for whatever reason, and they suffered for it.
And also, there were statements like these:
Sorry but "negative reception" doesn't prove the game is failing to the point of being revamped. It's all conjecture on your part.
The continued problem with your statements about how many people dislike the game is that it's your perception. It's based on what you've seen online, which really can't be taken as any sort of accurate statistic.
And
If a small, loud minority keeps asking for, say, playable narwhals to be added to the game, no matter how loud they manage to get it would still probably be a bad use of the dev's resources to fulfill that request because there are tons of other things people want and by making something that fits what the majority wants, they'll sell the product better.
Which is all to undermine the fact that I've been paying attention to the forums/internet to fuel the reason why I think that the game is doing poorly. I would like to see some numbers for some clarification, but I doubt that is going to happen, so we are just left with what people are actually saying, and it does not suggest that the game is doing well. If you did not mean "a small, loud minority" being the entire forums, and instead just the people that complain about X over and over again, I completely agree; I am not talking about a "small, loud minority" though ... I'm talking about the entire community, which is pieced together from all over, but the forums being the lead as they are supposed to be the central online hub for the community to interact with dev's and other users.
I actually popped into TS2 when they first started offering UC for free. I remembered how much I enjoyed the game at the time but at present, I can't get past the graphics or the annoying time travel thing where you leave for a whole day and come home to morning again. I do think TS2 had some really great gameplay, I just don't have any interest in it anymore. TS3, on the other hand, I would probably pop into on occasion if I wanted to use the space on my computer for the game but I don't because I've got plenty of other games I play and I'm enjoying TS4.
TS2 has its issues with coding, since it is a resource hog (even on a good computer by today's standards) ... the graphics are what they are I guess, and the aesthetic in TS4 is so much better, but TS2's base did the life stages really well, and the way that they developed the personal connection between Sims was awesome, with things like memories and those burning thought bubbles ... silly things like that just added to the personality of the game. TS3 also ran pretty well as a base game ... it definitely had its issues down the line, but I always found the base game to run smoothly. I can't really say what they did well, but things like GUI, animations, game mechanics, etc. were pretty well built in the base game. I think open world was also a very interesting concept, and it was really interesting being able to go into the homes of other Sims without a loading screen, and there weren't many hiccups with the AI or with animations or anything. I did not have Sims walking through each other, or freezing for long periods, or Sims moving around constantly, needlessly. They did have their little bugs and glitches, but nothing as persistent as that.
I think there's a pretty large group of people who completely miss the beauty of the club system. I've seen quite a few people just casually toss out "and clubs" as if they weren't anything other than a way for your sim to socialize. And it's quite a solid feature. I think people are more willing to appreciate the subtler aspects when the flashier ones are in play, as well.
Yeah, the club system does not get the respect that it deserves. People say that GT was just clubs and Windenburg, as if only coming with one shining open ended feature is worse than coming up with two or three features that are not as big or as malleable.
Beyond that, it's been an interesting discussion so I appreciate it.
You probably should have directed this comment to @DolittleRoller since they were the one implying the team being smaller is a direct correlation to the quality of the game.
On the other hand, companies don't waste resources on failing products so the fact that the game still has a large development team is likely an indicator that's it's at least doing well enough to warrant the expense of a large team.
I could have mentioned @DolittleRoller but you were the one that responded to his assertion by saying that more people than ever have been working on the game, which implies that you agree with his logic. So both of you should have been tagged.
Companies don't usually waste resources on failing products, but failing products with a proven market tend to be revamped to fit with the current consumer demand, which is what's currently happening with TS4.
But EA said The Sims 4 was their most popular game last time they spoke about it AND that it was only getting more and more popular.
So while it may have started off bad, EA are extremely happy with the success.
Where have they said this? (About it being their most popular game) I'm just curious cause you said it in that "something question about comparisons" thread and I had inquiried about where this was said. I googled it and couldn't find anything like that. I mean it's a popular game but come on games like SW Battlefront that have already sold 12 million copies in 8 months seem quite a bit more popular than TS4. Fifa 16 sold 4.9 million copies in its first week. I'm not even sure about Madden/Battlefield etc. How is The Sims 4 their most popular game? Don't get me wrong I love the sims, didn't like battlefront(I still have 1 and 2, no comparison), fifa etc but it's pretty obvious it's not EA's most popular game. I'm really just pretty curious where you found it or heard/read it is all.
I'm not sure but Jack might be referencing the snippet of phone call from last year about the year end earning figures. She posted it in another thread today. It's the call from last year at the end of the fiscal year. Quite a few people say it's a very positive reference to TS4 but if you listen to it what is really said it's that TS4 is performing better than they thought. In corporate speak that could mean they thought they would sell a million games and they really sold a million and two.
Comments
With recent news I think the stuffpack will be coming first.
The continued problem with your statements about how many people dislike the game is that it's your perception. It's based on what you've seen online, which really can't be taken as any sort of accurate statistic. People have a tendency to talk louder and longer when they're upset about something. And people see things differently, even when viewing the same thing. Another simmer and I were chatting once about the previous forums--she didn't like how the game looked and constantly felt persecuted over there and outnumbered by those who did; I liked how the game looked and my experience was almost the opposite. I regularly had people comment on my intelligence, financial choices, taste, etc. We both were essentially wandering around the same forums, probably reading many of the same threads and had completely different perspectives. Same thing with what you're saying. @Scobre mentioned, in this thread, that her experience when researching whether to buy this game or not was closer to a 50/50 split on how many liked the game versus disliked it. Someone who really loves the game may focus on fansites that cater to TS4 fans and hardly ever see the negatives. I'm not saying there aren't people who dislike this game and proclaim it loudly because there obviously are but I don't agree that it's a much as you're convinced of.
They definitely added some exaggeration to these sims and I actually like that a bit better than previous versions. Quite a few people have mentioned seeing their sims change emotions rather quickly. I don't really notice it happening that often for my sims but I may just not be seeing it the same way you are.
They need to add more emotions. At the very least fear, though I'd like to see something like envy, as well, and maybe rebellious, though that one could also work as a temp trait for teens. They also need to tone down the happy. Massively reduce the environmental buffs and add in more negative ones. Make it harder to get happy. @Neia was sharing some great ideas about altering some of the happy buffs to fine and reserving happy for more important events or experiences. I'd also like to see uncomfortable added as a buff on negative emotions to help balance out the la-la-land feel of the game. I'd love it if traits had just a bit more impact on their emotions. I really think they've got a good foundation for this but it needs to be developed and tweaked a bit more.
I agree about the rabbit holes. But I don't agree about TS3 having fewer bugs. TS4 is pretty solid. While I can't discount those who do have issues (one player seems to get every single possible bug available for this game), I really don't see how they could outnumber TS3s bugginess. To be clear, I thoroughly enjoyed TS3, had all of the EPs except the Katy Perry one, but I lived with the issues and actually counted myself lucky that I hardly ever had my game crash or enough issues to keep me from playing (except IP).
WA was one of my favorite EPs but I don't really get comparing it to GTW--is it because I mentioned it in light of the task-driven activities? I was actually paraphrasing from another thread where people were doing that. I like GTW but if I were given a choice, I'd say I prefer WA over GTW but that's because I like the theme better. I would have preferred something with self-employment and home-based businesses for GTW but I actually enjoy the two careers I've played. Really if they would just add multi-use lots, I can make my own home-based business using that expansion. And I'll say it again, there are old favorites I'd love to see back but, honestly, I've been excited to see the new stuff they come up with because I think they've been doing a good job with that.
I do agree it had issues when it released but I didn't find the unpatched base game deplorable at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I wouldn't have been averse to them postponing the release for another 6 months and/or including toddlers in it.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
> DolittleRoller wrote: »
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> Face it. Sims 4 is the best selling iteration in the sims franchise. It is far more complex than sims 3 and it has way better open world gameplay. On top of that is far more customizable with the new Create a Style (which sims 3 didn't have). The toddlers are also more complex. This is why sims 4 is selling so well. It is life.
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>
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> This site would disagree with you. Since it's a retail sales chart I'm sure it doesn't include internal figures for EA digital but I sincerely doubt that it's going to be a difference of 14 million.
>
> The Sims - 16 Million
> The Sims2 - 6 Million
> The Sims3 - 10 Million
> The Sims4 - 2 Million
2 Million > 16+6+10 Million
Sims 4 is literally the most advanced game right now. We don't even deserve to have it. It is too good for us. Which is why everyone has gone back to playing the sims 3 and 2.
Because the people on twitter/facebook/the forums/review sites actually do make up their userbase ... I wasn't solely talking about just the forums, but even if I was, they pay attention to these forums for a reason.
I agree that it's all based on speculation, but there will never be any sort of "data analysis" unless an analyst takes the time/effort to do so, and/or if EA/Maxis releases information about their data mining process, which will most likely not happen. Most of their statistics are gained via online applications ... so, as reason suggests, it is probable that if someone will answer an online survey for EA/Maxis, they are likely familiar with online things in general like Facebook, Twitter, the forums. Why is it so ridiculous to reach the conclusion that outspoken customers get more attention, even if they are a smaller group? And I'm not talking specifically about people angry about toddlers - just in principle, people who give their feedback, v. those that don't, should be favoured.
People keep saying that the forum is filled with the "loudest minority", but they also represent the users that will take the time to give their feedback and ideas. Just because the forums may or may not be an accurate depiction of their user base (though we do have all these patches....) is besides the point; why are we putting emphasis on a majority that apparently doesn't visit the forums, and does not provide us with their opinions? Why is it that being a smaller sized group means that we are 'less than', since the majority - by default - is presumed to enjoy the game since they find no reason to share their experience? We don't even know what they are thinking, so the most obvious route is to see what people are actually saying, since we don't have any statistics to go off of.
Yes, it definitely is based on personal preference. I notice my Sims going through a range of emotions. It doesn't always bother me ... sometimes it's more annoying, but on the whole, I like having them in the game.
I think more negative emotions/traits/consequences would be good for the game as a whole. I don't know exactly what needs to be developed though. They are pretty good how they are in terms of fleshing it out. When a Sim is angry, I really do feel that they portray the emotion accurately and consistently. Same with the other emotions.
I was talking about the base games, not the entirety of TS3. I did not feel/see bugs in TS3 as much as I do in TS4. Open world was ambitious, but I don't know if it's as tricky as multitasking and emotions.
I was comparing the quality of their work, not their concepts. I prefer GTW much more than WA, but I think that WA was the better pack in terms of development.
TS3 did have toddlers ... but they also fleshed things out in terms of life stages. Not many complaints from me in that regard. They also had an idea (Open world) and seemed to try and develop it fully. TS4 feels as though it has some really cool features but they feel unfinished. It feels rushed.
I agree it is hard to tell who is the majority and minority with things, but by the end it doesn't matter. What matters is that those that choose to speak are able to give feedback and ideas anyway they can. I know it took me forever to get the guts to join forums. What happened to SimCity being treated badly is what finally pushed me to. I didn't want the same to happen to the Sims. I wanted to give my voice while I could and still fairly have free time before marriage or kids ever happen. There will probably be a time in which I won't be vocal anymore or have time to be on forums again. I don't know when that is, but life happens. Breaks are nice though.
I wasn't solely talking about the forums here either and I never said anything about whether people who speak up should have their requests or issues handled. I think it absolutely makes sense for them to listen to whomever is talking, whether they like the game or not, whether they're a majority or not. They may not, however, act on what they hear if there isn't enough of a request to make it feasible. They have limited resources (time, finances, etc.) so they won't be able to implement every request, even if those making the requests or complaints are the loudest. It's an unfortunate but simple fact. I'm not sure it's even realistic to say that those who give their feedback should be favored because they are a business first and foremost and they have to produce a profit. If a small, loud minority keeps asking for, say, playable narwhals to be added to the game, no matter how loud they manage to get it would still probably be a bad use of the dev's resources to fulfill that request because there are tons of other things people want and by making something that fits what the majority wants, they'll sell the product better. It's not always fair, unfortunately.
I also never said that I think those who dislike the game are in the minority. I simply don't know and, to be perfectly frank, I don't much care. Someone else not liking the game really doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. I do think everyone deserves to be able to voice their opinions, good or bad, and to be heard but I don't think Maxis is required to fulfill everyone's requests.
I never actually played TS3 base alone. I picked up the game in one of those combo packs with Supernatural and WA, I think, so I never got to see how the base game played without some addons.
I'm not sure how I feel regarding the development or quality of GTW versus WA. Or the game overall. I do agree TS4 was rushed--there's no doubt in my mind. I'm pretty well convinced that pools and ghosts were initially planned for the base game and had to be put off and patched in later. But I feel like part of the problem for this version of the game is that people are looking for the WOW factor and not finding it because the features they are including are mostly pretty subtle, in a sense. It's not open world and being able to color everything in the most bizarre pattern you can find (or the prettiest)--it's emotions and multitasking and the club system. For me, I have no problem being patient as they continue to develop the game because I'm actually enjoying watching them slowly add in what I feel like should be actual fundamental functions in the Sims from here on out. Sure I'd like to see weather and toddlers and I'd be alright with pets and supernaturals, etc., but I like these less eye-popping features that, to me, have the potential to add some incredible depth to my gameplay and storytelling.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Yay, solidarity!
Yeah, kids are a HUGE time sink. It's like they expect you to feed them and interact with them on a daily basis.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Yeah, just raising my nephews has been tough. I do think I want to adopt someday.
I wanted to adopt at one point. My spousal unit wasn't into it.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
So who are the people requesting things in the game? The people on the forums, and various other forms of social media, but the forums are the most obvious place, because there are places specifically designed by EA/Maxis to hear peoples feedback and ideas.
Of course they shouldn't act on every single request ... so if the only people requesting things are people that are speaking up, which are mainly going to be on the forums, then logic dictates that you want to pay attention to the forums, and thus the point of my argument surfaces: the forums, however small or large, is an important piece that EA/Maxis is trying not to neglect, since they can't get that same information from a survey/telemetry. So, in essence, the forums stand to reason for being a pretty good representation of what people want, because they are the most likely place for people to go to express exactly what they want in the game ... this was in response to you stating that the forums are not an "accurate representation" of how the game is going, when it is designed specifically so that EA/Maxis can hear from people as to how their game is going...
I wasn't saying that the people who dislike the game are in the minority ... I was saying that the forums are apparently the minority, as they are not an accurate representation of the community, according to you. Or do you wish to clarify? I don't have any expectation that EA/Maxis should fulfill every request, but the forums are more important than people are making them out to be, whenever they say that the forums are "just a part" of the community, as if their value is diminished for not being the majority. I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what you are saying. If you wish to clarify, please sidestep yet again ... it's becoming annoying to see you respond with something like, "I did not write this exact statement so I did not mean this at all, and here is what I 'really' meant..." when I am legitimately just taking the meaning of the words that you strung together.
Maybe if you can try TS3 base game, or even TS2 in the near future ... they may feel empty compared to TS4, since I did feel like I could do quite a bit in TS4's base game, but the mechanics and stuff in those base games are more succinct and polished than TS4.
I am pretty patient as well, and I agree that the game has a lot to offer that just isn't being utilised/appreciated by Simmers ... I think that EA and Maxis are making more valiant efforts to create the things that they want while trying to help the people that are looking for that 'wow' factor. It may take a little while. But the reality of the situation is that if there is a large group of people (See: forums, facebook, twitter, etc.) expressing that they want certain content, there is going to be some validity in exploring that. Of course they are doing this while maintaining their personal expectations of the game, so it's a bit of a balancing act ... and they can't always fulfill customer demand unfortunately, so they need to work towards the next best thing.
I think that people are looking for things like open-world-and-CaSt-esque features, but can also appreciate the subtler aspects as well if they are done correctly ... I just don't really see TS4 doing enough in the base game/EP features. TS2 had toddlers. TS3 had open world. TS4 had emotions and multitasking, which are extremely great features that are undervalued (since no one really points out that these are awesome feats in the history of The Sims), but they also seem to cause a lot of problems for development and game mechanics ... emotions multiply the interactions by so much, since each emotion changes how you interact with the world entirely, and mulitasking is of course a very complicated system, since there are so many things going on at once. On top of that, TS4 was supposed to be accessible to as many people as possible (or so that story goes ... which I think became even more prevalent after they scrapped Olympus or whatever) including people with lower end computers. I think that they pulled this off, but I would like to see them stretch the game specs out a bit, and create a game that is more complicated in terms of programming and physical objects that are within the game itself.
2. The Sims 3
3. The Sims 4 (5 years later its decent)
4. The Sims 1
Where have they said this? (About it being their most popular game) I'm just curious cause you said it in that "something question about comparisons" thread and I had inquiried about where this was said. I googled it and couldn't find anything like that. I mean it's a popular game but come on games like SW Battlefront that have already sold 12 million copies in 8 months seem quite a bit more popular than TS4. Fifa 16 sold 4.9 million copies in its first week. I'm not even sure about Madden/Battlefield etc. How is The Sims 4 their most popular game? Don't get me wrong I love the sims, didn't like battlefront(I still have 1 and 2, no comparison), fifa etc but it's pretty obvious it's not EA's most popular game. I'm really just pretty curious where you found it or heard/read it is all.
You know what, we're obviously talking in circles around each other. I'm actually getting tired of you stepping back and restating things as if you were saying the same thing the whole time. I never said the forums were the minority or that they weren't an accurate representation of the fanbase so please show me where I stated that. In fact, I've been pretty clear that I don't have any kind of statistics on who says what where and how many people say they like the game and how many hate it. But please feel free to continue harping on this if it pleases you.
I actually popped into TS2 when they first started offering UC for free. I remembered how much I enjoyed the game at the time but at present, I can't get past the graphics or the annoying time travel thing where you leave for a whole day and come home to morning again. I do think TS2 had some really great gameplay, I just don't have any interest in it anymore. TS3, on the other hand, I would probably pop into on occasion if I wanted to use the space on my computer for the game but I don't because I've got plenty of other games I play and I'm enjoying TS4.
I think there's a pretty large group of people who completely miss the beauty of the club system. I've seen quite a few people just casually toss out "and clubs" as if they weren't anything other than a way for your sim to socialize. And it's quite a solid feature. I think people are more willing to appreciate the subtler aspects when the flashier ones are in play, as well.
Beyond that, it's been an interesting discussion so I appreciate it.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
When I said: I was using the negative reception of the game as a factor in leading me to believe that the game doesn't isn't doing well if - surprise - people don't really enjoy the game that much. Perhaps you require EA to explicitly state what the sales figures are until your judgement is made, and I will concede to that argument because I agree as well, but until we get any sort of information, I am going to speculate. If you wish to denounce me for that, then so be it, and you can continue to use inconclusive statements during the interim, since we don't have "cold hard facts" and thus are incapable of making any definitive conclusions ... I also recall someone posting on the forums about the discussions that EA has with their shareholders and that TS4 didn't really come up ... odd, considering EA had no problem doing that with TS3's launch. What does that mean when they are silent, or sparse with positive recognition of their sales? I guess we're supposed to believe that they are just being private or something.
You responded with:
You were saying that I was being hyperbolic by saying that people don't really enjoy the game that much ... which I guess is a bold statement, but the truth is that a lot of people really don't. Sure, you can say that I don't have definitive numbers or statistics that suggests this, but it is overwhelmingly apparent when you look at Facebook, Twitter, the forums, etc. compared to all the positive remarks that people make about the game. I may not be reading every single thread or comment, but skimming through comments and threads, I see a lot more negative than positive, which suggests that people are not enjoying the game all that much compared to other Sim games ... so, point being: you can use forums and threads and whatever else that attracts Simmers as a way of telling how the game is doing without explicitly looking for statistics from EA, or (naively) thinking that they would actually tell us if the game was doing poorly, since they have a history of blatant PR control.
Ex:
He got seriously reprimanded for that twitter thing ... LOL. But they would never tell you.
...
I said:
You responded:
That whole "accurately assume" thing is what I'm debating right now, since every time that I tell you that I am using the power of observation as an indicator of the games well-being, you respond with something like "it's just your perception" or "you have no statistics" (other than user generated feedback, reviews, comments, complaints, etc. etc. etc.) ... which I understand is a valid concern, but I am also telling you that I am using Facebook, Twitter, the forums to come to that conclusion ... if you are using the same things and coming to a different conclusion, then I would like to read what you're reading, because you are debating the validity of my observations either because you observe something differently (which you've alluded to but have not pushed that point at all really) or because you doubt my assertions as anecdotes, bias, etc. etc., to which I've responded by saying that I love TS4, and (in other posts) that I support the dev's, but I cannot ignore the community's concerns because the comparison between TS4/TS2/TS3 in certain areas reveals a lot of issues ... like I've said previously, there are lots of great things in TS4, but there are also lots of things that are wrong - in other areas- that shouldn't have been given to us when it was. Can I cite specifically what every single problem is? No, unfortunately not, I just know that the technical issues have never been as obvious as they are in TS4, and then when you think about the fact that they had missed some things before launch ... it just adds to the fact that they rushed the game out there to meet a deadline for whatever reason, and they suffered for it.
And also, there were statements like these:
And
Which is all to undermine the fact that I've been paying attention to the forums/internet to fuel the reason why I think that the game is doing poorly. I would like to see some numbers for some clarification, but I doubt that is going to happen, so we are just left with what people are actually saying, and it does not suggest that the game is doing well. If you did not mean "a small, loud minority" being the entire forums, and instead just the people that complain about X over and over again, I completely agree; I am not talking about a "small, loud minority" though ... I'm talking about the entire community, which is pieced together from all over, but the forums being the lead as they are supposed to be the central online hub for the community to interact with dev's and other users.
TS2 has its issues with coding, since it is a resource hog (even on a good computer by today's standards) ... the graphics are what they are I guess, and the aesthetic in TS4 is so much better, but TS2's base did the life stages really well, and the way that they developed the personal connection between Sims was awesome, with things like memories and those burning thought bubbles ... silly things like that just added to the personality of the game. TS3 also ran pretty well as a base game ... it definitely had its issues down the line, but I always found the base game to run smoothly. I can't really say what they did well, but things like GUI, animations, game mechanics, etc. were pretty well built in the base game. I think open world was also a very interesting concept, and it was really interesting being able to go into the homes of other Sims without a loading screen, and there weren't many hiccups with the AI or with animations or anything. I did not have Sims walking through each other, or freezing for long periods, or Sims moving around constantly, needlessly. They did have their little bugs and glitches, but nothing as persistent as that.
Yeah, the club system does not get the respect that it deserves. People say that GT was just clubs and Windenburg, as if only coming with one shining open ended feature is worse than coming up with two or three features that are not as big or as malleable.
Yes, I agree.
I'm not sure but Jack might be referencing the snippet of phone call from last year about the year end earning figures. She posted it in another thread today. It's the call from last year at the end of the fiscal year. Quite a few people say it's a very positive reference to TS4 but if you listen to it what is really said it's that TS4 is performing better than they thought. In corporate speak that could mean they thought they would sell a million games and they really sold a million and two.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14793218/#Comment_14793218