As someone else mentioned here, I've been thinking a lot about this statement "we wanted to focus on the Sims themselves". I guess something like that isn't possible if you don't include a basic age in the game. I know that The Sims aren't real life but only a simulation game, but it has to have similiraties with real life, otherwise it will be a fantasy game. Also, it must have been impossible for the developers to not know what the players wanted considering the fact that there were forums in The Sims 3 as well and a huge amount of players were incredibly active, always discussing and asking for what they wanted.
I guess meeting the deadlines was much more important for the developers than delivering a near-perfect product. I don't think that this whole thing was about laziness and stuff, as I want to believe that in a company as huge and important as EA, there should be professionals who love their work and know the likes and the dislikes of the customers. Or maybe I'm just too emotional over my favourite PC game and can't think straight when it comes to it.
When I read all this, I regret I actually bought the game, thinking it would get better. I'll never buy anything from them again if they don't put time and effort into the game. Ridiculous.
It just makes no sense. Why make the next generation of Sims with the intent to create a more realistic game-play with their emotions and traits that make them react to certain things like a real person would, but then take away something that is a crucial part of real life! Their decision is beyond me. But hey, at least we can all have different walk styles...
"It's just called a phone." "What an impractical name."
This bull stuff (substitute different 4 letter word here) about not wanting to shoe-horn toddlers is for the birds. Sure, there might have been some complaints if they'd tied toddlers to the playpen and had them use a walker, but even if they'd put them in the playpen from Aurora Falls (the one that has the things that help them talk, and had them tied to a walker, the fans might not have been happy, but they wouldn't have been as angry, seeing as how Maxis at least tried to honor their promise...*IF* they'd bothered to do that.
No, all you people defending this decision need to re-think your logic. There was no reason not to have included them...the baby barely has animations, they could have done the same thing with the toddler. Fans might not have liked it as much, but at least they wouldn't be complaining about leaving out all life stages, and the family players would have had their toddlers, even if in a limited role. By now, it's too little, too late.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
This bull stuff (substitute different 4 letter word here) about not wanting to shoe-horn toddlers is for the birds. Sure, there might have been some complaints if they'd tied toddlers to the playpen and had them use a walker, but even if they'd put them in the playpen from Aurora Falls (the one that has the things that help them talk, and had them tied to a walker, the fans might not have been happy, but they wouldn't have been as angry, seeing as how Maxis at least tried to honor their promise...*IF* they'd bothered to do that.
No, all you people defending this decision need to re-think your logic. There was no reason not to have included them...the baby barely has animations, they could have done the same thing with the toddler. Fans might not have liked it as much, but at least they wouldn't be complaining about leaving out all life stages, and the family players would have had their toddlers, even if in a limited role. By now, it's too little, too late.
I would be far angrier if we had playpen-tied toddlers. I much much more prefer no toddler than badly done toddlers. And thats goes for other features too : make it right or don't make it at all.
Honesty is the best policy.
Simmers would be a lot more understanding and forgiving if they were certain of how all this came about.
To pretend that this game is exactly what they imagined it to be from the beginning and had full time for development is only generating a pile of lies as they back-fill. How about a little transparency here? The CEO/Toddler blow up would have been a perfect opportunity for a toddler update.
Nope-- The first rule of Toddler Club is we don't talk about toddlers.
I wonder how their marketing is affecting sales. This is the first Sims series that I haven't rushed out to buy the latest pack and my YA's are on hold until we get a Generations EP. I am going on pure Faith that it will happen since the only glimmer of light I have seen was from a marketing survey that mentioned toddlers and pre-teens in the Generations EP.
Ok I have been seeing a lot of people unhappy about them cutting out the toddlers but dose anyone know why? you would think after all of the money they dumped into crating the Sims 4 that they would make it better then the Sims 3," but I do think it is it needs more work it needs more things to do I love the graphics but really they have cut so much stuff out that it is kinda boring what happen to pets everyone loves having pets in their game it brought life to the game but their is no pets its just people and buildings
Rachel Franklin's new explanation last month (in an interview) is because it was the best decision ever for this game so far. Who can argue with that? Said the telemetry of TS3 showed them it would be better to leave them out. Be careful how you play or don't play a feature, next time there might not be any teens or elders in the game. Since not many like them in this game since they are the same as any other Sim.
Considering the evidence regarding Olympus and the fact that the game was put out in less than half the time of a normal Sims development cycle, I would put anything on Rachel Franklin's "telemetry" explanation being a retroactive "official line," not what really happened. She just wants to make us think there was more thought put into the absence of toddlers than there actually was.
If TS4 was originally an online game/based on previous console games, toddlers were never cut because they never existed in the first place. They probably never got to them, or if they did, weren't anywhere near finishing them. On top of that, they are essentially still building the game (hence endless and frequent patches, and not being able to give proper previews of upcoming content). So I don't think this really has much, if anything, to do with simmers choosing to play/not use certain features of the game.
I agree with you, but if we say this then we are saying others at EA are dishonest and that can get us banned. Just so you know, by implying some over this game told fibs can get you some warnings. Heads up.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Because of laziness. Sorry. Because according to telemetry, we didn't want them.
Nothing like trying to point the finger of blame upon the customer base that gives you their money so that you have a job.
Did they not know that players don't want bugs either? There seems to be plenty of them!
And if 'telemetry' showed no one playing with toddlers and excusing their cut, why did they remove open world when telemetry would have clearly showed players playing in an open world setting?
This bull stuff (substitute different 4 letter word here) about not wanting to shoe-horn toddlers is for the birds. Sure, there might have been some complaints if they'd tied toddlers to the playpen and had them use a walker, but even if they'd put them in the playpen from Aurora Falls (the one that has the things that help them talk, and had them tied to a walker, the fans might not have been happy, but they wouldn't have been as angry, seeing as how Maxis at least tried to honor their promise...*IF* they'd bothered to do that.
No, all you people defending this decision need to re-think your logic. There was no reason not to have included them...the baby barely has animations, they could have done the same thing with the toddler. Fans might not have liked it as much, but at least they wouldn't be complaining about leaving out all life stages, and the family players would have had their toddlers, even if in a limited role. By now, it's too little, too late.
I would be far angrier if we had playpen-tied toddlers. I much much more prefer no toddler than badly done toddlers. And thats goes for other features too : make it right or don't make it at all.
Agreed. As much as I miss toddlers and want them in Sims 4, I'd prefer them to be totally absent than included and poorly made. We have enough neglected life stages. No need to add another.
As someone else mentioned here, I've been thinking a lot about this statement "we wanted to focus on the Sims themselves". I guess something like that isn't possible if you don't include a basic age in the game. I know that The Sims aren't real life but only a simulation game, but it has to have similiraties with real life, otherwise it will be a fantasy game. Also, it must have been impossible for the developers to not know what the players wanted considering the fact that there were forums in The Sims 3 as well and a huge amount of players were incredibly active, always discussing and asking for what they wanted.
I guess meeting the deadlines was much more important for the developers than delivering a near-perfect product. I don't think that this whole thing was about laziness and stuff, as I want to believe that in a company as huge and important as EA, there should be professionals who love their work and know the likes and the dislikes of the customers. Or maybe I'm just too emotional over my favourite PC game and can't think straight when it comes to it.
While it would be nice to believe that, the fact that Olympus ever started down the path of being an MMO style online game to begin with shows they don't know their customers very well at all. They had enough sense after the SimCity debacle to change course but it was far too late at that point. TS4 being the end result of all those bad decisions.
Honestly I think they would have been better off if they had just plowed ahead with Olympus and treated it as a sims spin-off game and kept developing TS3 to fund a full development cycle for a true TS4 game. But, well, too late for all that now.
As someone else mentioned here, I've been thinking a lot about this statement "we wanted to focus on the Sims themselves". I guess something like that isn't possible if you don't include a basic age in the game. I know that The Sims aren't real life but only a simulation game, but it has to have similiraties with real life, otherwise it will be a fantasy game. Also, it must have been impossible for the developers to not know what the players wanted considering the fact that there were forums in The Sims 3 as well and a huge amount of players were incredibly active, always discussing and asking for what they wanted.
I guess meeting the deadlines was much more important for the developers than delivering a near-perfect product. I don't think that this whole thing was about laziness and stuff, as I want to believe that in a company as huge and important as EA, there should be professionals who love their work and know the likes and the dislikes of the customers. Or maybe I'm just too emotional over my favourite PC game and can't think straight when it comes to it.
While it would be nice to believe that, the fact that Olympus ever started down the path of being an MMO style online game to begin with shows they don't know their customers very well at all. They had enough sense after the SimCity debacle to change course but it was far too late at that point. TS4 being the end result of all those bad decisions.
Honestly I think they would have been better off if they had just plowed ahead with Olympus and treated it as a sims spin-off game and kept developing TS3 to fund a full development cycle for a true TS4 game. But, well, too late for all that now.
I agree that they don't pay attention to customers, but that's not what EA is concerned with. At the end of the day, the push towards always online/social/MMO comes down to DRM and increased profit. This is the trend with a number of games and game companies - PC and console as well, not unique to this franchise.
For the Sims, we already have gone from having physical discs to codes you have to redeem and required sign-in. It's not just about it costing less to make discs. It's about not being able to resell your games to others. If you move people from what we have now to an MMO or otherwise always-online experience, like SimCity2013 was originally, not only you have to login and you can't resell your game, but you can't even share your login with others in the household or other family/friends because you are required to always be online to play the game.
Because people say they aren't important and that they are the most boring and useless life stage. It was a very smart decision and I applaud them for it. I only play YA to Elders. Speaking of Elders, I gotta make another sugar daddy sim.
Because people say they aren't important and that they are the most boring and useless life stage. It was a very smart decision and I applaud them for it. I only play YA to Elders. Speaking of Elders, I gotta make another sugar daddy sim.
Well that's just a few people cause a large portion of simmers have a different point of view on that.
Because people say they aren't important and that they are the most boring and useless life stage. It was a very smart decision and I applaud them for it. I only play YA to Elders. Speaking of Elders, I gotta make another sugar daddy sim.
Well that's just a few people cause a large portion of simmers have a different point of view on that.
Oh no. Maybe they've been wanting to get rid of their old customers. Phew!
Did they use telemetry for previous Sims titles? Because I'm curious to know what was omitted in the past because "we didn't want them".
Yes in the Sims 3 it was used. Sadly the Sims 4 is the only Sims game that had the online to offline switch and rely on telemetry for current development so severely.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Did they use telemetry for previous Sims titles? Because I'm curious to know what was omitted in the past because "we didn't want them".
Yes in the Sims 3 it was used. Sadly the Sims 4 is the only Sims game that had the online to offline switch and rely on telemetry for current development so severely.
Which basically means if a lot of playing offline then the telemetry is only showing data for those online?
Did they use telemetry for previous Sims titles? Because I'm curious to know what was omitted in the past because "we didn't want them".
Yes in the Sims 3 it was used. Sadly the Sims 4 is the only Sims game that had the online to offline switch and rely on telemetry for current development so severely.
Wasn't it used in S2 too? Isn't that what securom was?
Personally, I don't care if they collect data on how I play and I leave telemetry on when I play. But I don't always play online though.
I don't think it's as reliable an indicator as they think though. Toddlers were aged up quickly in S3 because they were a buggy, routing MESS. Not because people didn't like the life stage.
And it's not reliable to assume that everyone wants to party in S4 simply because there is not much else to do right now aside from go to the bar and dance.
Did they use telemetry for previous Sims titles? Because I'm curious to know what was omitted in the past because "we didn't want them".
Yes in the Sims 3 it was used. Sadly the Sims 4 is the only Sims game that had the online to offline switch and rely on telemetry for current development so severely.
Wasn't it used in S2 too? Isn't that what securom was?
Personally, I don't care if they collect data on how I play and I leave telemetry on when I play. But I don't always play online though.
I don't think it's as reliable an indicator as they think though. Toddlers were aged up quickly in S3 because they were a buggy, routing MESS. Not because people didn't like the life stage.
And it's not reliable to assume that everyone wants to party in S4 simply because there is not much else to do right now aside from go to the bar and dance.
You know you make a valid point. I personally loved Toddlers in TS3 but there were so many issues that I had to age them up quickly. And in TS4, sims really have nothing to do except to do what's already there which in this case is partying. Almost like it was set up that way.
Did they use telemetry for previous Sims titles? Because I'm curious to know what was omitted in the past because "we didn't want them".
Yes in the Sims 3 it was used. Sadly the Sims 4 is the only Sims game that had the online to offline switch and rely on telemetry for current development so severely.
Wasn't it used in S2 too? Isn't that what securom was?
Personally, I don't care if they collect data on how I play and I leave telemetry on when I play. But I don't always play online though.
I don't think it's as reliable an indicator as they think though. Toddlers were aged up quickly in S3 because they were a buggy, routing MESS. Not because people didn't like the life stage.
And it's not reliable to assume that everyone wants to party in S4 simply because there is not much else to do right now aside from go to the bar and dance.
You know you make a valid point. I personally loved Toddlers in TS3 but there were so many issues that I had to age them up quickly. And in TS4, sims really have nothing to do except to do what's already there which in this case is partying. Almost like it was set up that way.
It's why I don't mind leaving telemetry on. I do way different things than just go to the bars. I hardly send my sims to them at all, unless it is a single sim with the serial romantic trait and I only have a couple of those in my town. Well, I send my serial killer there too for new townie victims. lol
But I more use the game to still play out my various family situations and their careers and I use it for other sims to do collecting and skill development etc. I don't know. I just don't mind adding to the information that it's not just all about partying.
Wasn't it used in S2 too? Isn't that what securom was?
Personally, I don't care if they collect data on how I play and I leave telemetry on when I play. But I don't always play online though.
I don't think it's as reliable an indicator as they think though. Toddlers were aged up quickly in S3 because they were a buggy, routing MESS. Not because people didn't like the life stage.
And it's not reliable to assume that everyone wants to party in S4 simply because there is not much else to do right now aside from go to the bar and dance.
I'm not sure. Maybe? I just played on disks, so I tried avoiding Securom as much as possible. I don't like playing online Sims games either.
Yeah I agree with that. The Sims 2 toddlers I think were better and both the Sims 3 babies and toddlers had their issues. Yeah that's what I'm worried what the telemetry is doing now is telling Maxis that all Simmers like to do is woohoo and party. I hope they realize other things are important too. At least GT will bring some much needed group activities, so it is a good start. I really miss the play interactions children used to have.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Which basically means if a lot of playing offline then the telemetry is only showing data for those online?
Yep, you have to be actively online and click share user data for the telemetry to work, which I tend to do neither. If Maxis really wants to know how I feel about the game, there is plenty of feedback on forums for that. The making me feel like just another stat gives me a morbid feeling. I'm human not a robot.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Comments
I guess meeting the deadlines was much more important for the developers than delivering a near-perfect product. I don't think that this whole thing was about laziness and stuff, as I want to believe that in a company as huge and important as EA, there should be professionals who love their work and know the likes and the dislikes of the customers. Or maybe I'm just too emotional over my favourite PC game and can't think straight when it comes to it.
"It's just called a phone."
"What an impractical name."
No, all you people defending this decision need to re-think your logic. There was no reason not to have included them...the baby barely has animations, they could have done the same thing with the toddler. Fans might not have liked it as much, but at least they wouldn't be complaining about leaving out all life stages, and the family players would have had their toddlers, even if in a limited role. By now, it's too little, too late.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
I would be far angrier if we had playpen-tied toddlers. I much much more prefer no toddler than badly done toddlers. And thats goes for other features too : make it right or don't make it at all.
Simmers would be a lot more understanding and forgiving if they were certain of how all this came about.
To pretend that this game is exactly what they imagined it to be from the beginning and had full time for development is only generating a pile of lies as they back-fill. How about a little transparency here? The CEO/Toddler blow up would have been a perfect opportunity for a toddler update.
Nope-- The first rule of Toddler Club is we don't talk about toddlers.
I wonder how their marketing is affecting sales. This is the first Sims series that I haven't rushed out to buy the latest pack and my YA's are on hold until we get a Generations EP. I am going on pure Faith that it will happen since the only glimmer of light I have seen was from a marketing survey that mentioned toddlers and pre-teens in the Generations EP.
I agree with you, but if we say this then we are saying others at EA are dishonest and that can get us banned. Just so you know, by implying some over this game told fibs can get you some warnings. Heads up.
Did they not know that players don't want bugs either? There seems to be plenty of them!
And if 'telemetry' showed no one playing with toddlers and excusing their cut, why did they remove open world when telemetry would have clearly showed players playing in an open world setting?
While it would be nice to believe that, the fact that Olympus ever started down the path of being an MMO style online game to begin with shows they don't know their customers very well at all. They had enough sense after the SimCity debacle to change course but it was far too late at that point. TS4 being the end result of all those bad decisions.
Honestly I think they would have been better off if they had just plowed ahead with Olympus and treated it as a sims spin-off game and kept developing TS3 to fund a full development cycle for a true TS4 game. But, well, too late for all that now.
I agree that they don't pay attention to customers, but that's not what EA is concerned with. At the end of the day, the push towards always online/social/MMO comes down to DRM and increased profit. This is the trend with a number of games and game companies - PC and console as well, not unique to this franchise.
For the Sims, we already have gone from having physical discs to codes you have to redeem and required sign-in. It's not just about it costing less to make discs. It's about not being able to resell your games to others. If you move people from what we have now to an MMO or otherwise always-online experience, like SimCity2013 was originally, not only you have to login and you can't resell your game, but you can't even share your login with others in the household or other family/friends because you are required to always be online to play the game.
Always follow the money.
EA ID: staravia81
Well that's just a few people cause a large portion of simmers have a different point of view on that.
Oh no. Maybe they've been wanting to get rid of their old customers. Phew!
Which basically means if a lot of playing offline then the telemetry is only showing data for those online?
Wasn't it used in S2 too? Isn't that what securom was?
Personally, I don't care if they collect data on how I play and I leave telemetry on when I play. But I don't always play online though.
I don't think it's as reliable an indicator as they think though. Toddlers were aged up quickly in S3 because they were a buggy, routing MESS. Not because people didn't like the life stage.
And it's not reliable to assume that everyone wants to party in S4 simply because there is not much else to do right now aside from go to the bar and dance.
You know you make a valid point. I personally loved Toddlers in TS3 but there were so many issues that I had to age them up quickly. And in TS4, sims really have nothing to do except to do what's already there which in this case is partying. Almost like it was set up that way.
It's why I don't mind leaving telemetry on. I do way different things than just go to the bars. I hardly send my sims to them at all, unless it is a single sim with the serial romantic trait and I only have a couple of those in my town. Well, I send my serial killer there too for new townie victims. lol
But I more use the game to still play out my various family situations and their careers and I use it for other sims to do collecting and skill development etc. I don't know. I just don't mind adding to the information that it's not just all about partying.
Yeah I agree with that. The Sims 2 toddlers I think were better and both the Sims 3 babies and toddlers had their issues. Yeah that's what I'm worried what the telemetry is doing now is telling Maxis that all Simmers like to do is woohoo and party. I hope they realize other things are important too. At least GT will bring some much needed group activities, so it is a good start. I really miss the play interactions children used to have.