Okay. I'm not trying to create a flame war thread here, but seriously, do you think they'll be back? I've been messing around with python and while yes, it is a powerful language, I just don't see how you can include a whole other life stage and have it work properly. Even though I'm still extremely new to python and am probably missing something (as I have not seen the source code for the sims game), using python alone, I just cannot see it. Python isn't exactly designed for simulation games like the sims. It is powerful, but it has a much better use with web applications and such. Oh well... Just wanted to see what the sims community thought.
I know nothing about Python, but if they can't expand on the game with toddlers, wouldn't that mean they can't add anything to the game without difficulty. That sounds like expansion packs will be a mess, or simple and underwhelming.
I believe we will have them. I don't believe they will come in a patch.
Well, Graham did say they didn't want to "just shoe-horn them in", so that, to me, gives a little bit of hope that a later addition might just happen. It's slim, I know, but it isn't a flat-out "No," as far as I can see.
Unfortunately it depends on how the word "shoehorn" is interpreted. It could also mean there isn't enough room in the game engine. That could very well have been our "no."
shoe·horn
ˈSHo͞oˌhôrn/
noun
noun: shoe-horn
verb
verb: shoe-horn
1. force into an inadequate space.
"people were shoehorned into cramped corners"
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Okay. I'm not trying to create a flame war thread here, but seriously, do you think they'll be back? I've been messing around with python and while yes, it is a powerful language, I just don't see how you can include a whole other life stage and have it work properly. Even though I'm still extremely new to python and am probably missing something (as I have not seen the source code for the sims game), using python alone, I just cannot see it. Python isn't exactly designed for simulation games like the sims. It is powerful, but it has a much better use with web applications and such. Oh well... Just wanted to see what the sims community thought.
I know nothing about Python, but if they can't expand on the game with toddlers, wouldn't that mean they can't add anything to the game without difficulty. That sounds like expansion packs will be a mess, or simple and underwhelming.
I believe we will have them. I don't believe they will come in a patch.
That is partially correct. As I have said previously, the only way to feasibly add something in with python (at least from what I know) is to create a new library, (the toddlers) import it, and implement it in the game through code or a completely different script. As I have been searching through the decompiled .pyo files, I have not come across anything yet that would allow a new lifestage to be put in without messing up the game and therefore having to rewrite the core of the game. Now since I don't have the source code, and you cannot get the source code, I don't know whether it is possible or not to do this; but from the looks of the files right now, it doesn't look possible. Because they preimplemented game expansions and more worlds, they can do this. But because python is a "strict" language per se, it seems as if it is virtually impossible to add a new lifestage. Read here if you need a greater explanation on using python vs c++: http://forum.codecall.net/topic/50915-should-i-program-games-in-python-or-in-c/
I definitely think that they started work on toddlers and didn't have time to finish them. This would be why Grant was so sure toddlers was one of the life stages when he said they were a stage in that one interview he did at least a year before it released. I bet they thought they'd have enough time to get them in but they were really down to the wire so it didn't happen. I hope they are currently finishing the life stage up and will have a big announcement for us sometime this year!
I kind of got tricked into buying the game because I had no Idea they were going to discard toddlers. I found the sims4 on Origin and bought it, not knowing they were taking away the most bonding and Amazing (My opinion) Life stage. I am considered a "Young Audience" and I love to build up families and Legacies, but teaching your children how to walk, talk, and potty train. Why take away what I find the most special and important lifestage? I don't have children in real life since i am pretty "Young" but I loved the experience sims3 and 2 gave me with the bonding experience, the lifestage that you have to pay attention to them but my children in sims4 are pretty much neglected :(. I don't like it. If they ever get rid of toddlers from the base game again, they will lose my services for good and i mean every EA game I own will be thrown in the trash. Toddlers deserve so much credit. I got the game January 1st 2014.
I'm starting to think that they wont be due to the fact that we haven't heard a single thing hinting towards them coming or being in production. Not one bit of concept art or hidden clues in game files. When something is on its way there's usually evidence of it to be found somewhere on the internet. There's literally nothing and that worries me a lot.
In terms of is it possible? I don't know, i'm not a game dev. I wouldn't let your experience of Python influence your opinion. One of the devs said not long ago that the software they used is special and designed to build the game. They don't use commericial stuff so who knows what limits their software has. I defintiely think adding them in would be a very difficult thing to do but I also think it would be very possible in theory. It would just be a big pain in the plum and sure, it would bring about bugs but everything new they add to the game does so nothing new there.
This idea that toddler should be optional truely does sound impossible though. If they are implemented their presence will heavily influences lots of areas of the game (including future content they add that might be tailored to them) I don't think a take it or leave it attitude could be done with an entire lifestage as easily as it could be done with some Christmas decorations >.>
I think they will lose a lot of fans if they don't, me included. I also wonder if they are keeping silent so that they can avoid the backlash when they announce that toddlers aren't coming back.
Agree!
So many simmers And friends from the Sims 3 that won't touch this game
One of the main reasons why is because of the poor family play, toddlers!!
I wonder if they will loose money? Simmers and friends I met over the years that like me loved family play so much, including toddlers were always big spenders for the store content!
Actually yes, I think they will be brought back. Probably in a Generations-style EP, or game pack (or whatever) which players will have to pay for. Certainly, creating toddlers will require considerable resources on EA's part (which is apparently why they were not included in the base game), but no more so than pets. If you think about it, toddlers are nothing more than an additional life form that has to be designed and animated, along with all the appropriate interactions. It doesn't require changing anything that is already in the game, though. I am quite sure that the developers intend to introduce other life forms, like pets, into the game at some point, so why not toddlers, especially considering the high level of demand that already exists? I think we can forget any idea of getting them via a free patch, though. EA will expect to be compensated for the cost of creating them and there will always be enough people willing to pay.
Do I think toddlers will be back? Due to the demand, yes. I think we will get them at some point, in some form.
I hope that when they do bring them back that they are fully thought out and not disappointing. I think they unintentionally raised the bar for themselves. It will be harder to please people now they have already been upset.
If they brought back toddlers and the content felt half-hearted or done in a way to shut us up I think that would be more hurtful than not doing it at all.
I strongly feel that the basic life-stage should be part of a free patch to the base game. That way we could continue to get more content for them. I would be concerned if they were part of a gameplay or expansion pack, because I doubt we would get more content for them after that.
I keep coming back to the same question. If it's impossible why oh why did they create a game that was unfit for purpose in this way?! They only announced no toddlers what two months before release? Did they not work on them at all before then?
I just don't understand and I genuinely want to know why. Why exactly are we here where such loyal customers are thrown aside like yesterday's news when they are your guaranteed profits?!
Comments
I know nothing about Python, but if they can't expand on the game with toddlers, wouldn't that mean they can't add anything to the game without difficulty. That sounds like expansion packs will be a mess, or simple and underwhelming.
I believe we will have them. I don't believe they will come in a patch.
Unfortunately it depends on how the word "shoehorn" is interpreted. It could also mean there isn't enough room in the game engine. That could very well have been our "no."
shoe·horn
ˈSHo͞oˌhôrn/
noun
noun: shoe-horn
verb
verb: shoe-horn
1. force into an inadequate space.
"people were shoehorned into cramped corners"
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
That is partially correct. As I have said previously, the only way to feasibly add something in with python (at least from what I know) is to create a new library, (the toddlers) import it, and implement it in the game through code or a completely different script. As I have been searching through the decompiled .pyo files, I have not come across anything yet that would allow a new lifestage to be put in without messing up the game and therefore having to rewrite the core of the game. Now since I don't have the source code, and you cannot get the source code, I don't know whether it is possible or not to do this; but from the looks of the files right now, it doesn't look possible. Because they preimplemented game expansions and more worlds, they can do this. But because python is a "strict" language per se, it seems as if it is virtually impossible to add a new lifestage. Read here if you need a greater explanation on using python vs c++: http://forum.codecall.net/topic/50915-should-i-program-games-in-python-or-in-c/
I miss the toddlers so much.
In terms of is it possible? I don't know, i'm not a game dev. I wouldn't let your experience of Python influence your opinion. One of the devs said not long ago that the software they used is special and designed to build the game. They don't use commericial stuff so who knows what limits their software has. I defintiely think adding them in would be a very difficult thing to do but I also think it would be very possible in theory. It would just be a big pain in the plum and sure, it would bring about bugs but everything new they add to the game does so nothing new there.
This idea that toddler should be optional truely does sound impossible though. If they are implemented their presence will heavily influences lots of areas of the game (including future content they add that might be tailored to them) I don't think a take it or leave it attitude could be done with an entire lifestage as easily as it could be done with some Christmas decorations >.>
Playing the sims since 2012
Tbh, not having them in base game was the wrong move.
to my simblr
Agree!
So many simmers And friends from the Sims 3 that won't touch this game
One of the main reasons why is because of the poor family play, toddlers!!
I wonder if they will loose money? Simmers and friends I met over the years that like me loved family play so much, including toddlers were always big spenders for the store content!
I hope that when they do bring them back that they are fully thought out and not disappointing. I think they unintentionally raised the bar for themselves. It will be harder to please people now they have already been upset.
If they brought back toddlers and the content felt half-hearted or done in a way to shut us up I think that would be more hurtful than not doing it at all.
I strongly feel that the basic life-stage should be part of a free patch to the base game. That way we could continue to get more content for them. I would be concerned if they were part of a gameplay or expansion pack, because I doubt we would get more content for them after that.
I just don't understand and I genuinely want to know why. Why exactly are we here where such loyal customers are thrown aside like yesterday's news when they are your guaranteed profits?!
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