I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explain.
If I ignore the goals, I have zero chance of unlocking rewards - the only way to unlock is to be forced to go through all the steps without any options on how to complete said steps.
I have never played with mods or cheats, & imo shouldn't have to do so.
The reason we're complaining is because having our options removed for HOW we do things is as big a deal to us as toddlers being taken away is to legacy/family players. It's a game-breaker. It destroys our ability to get immersed in this game the way we've been able to since the beginning of the series.
I do like sandbox play but I don't want to go all the way back to the Original Sims sandbox play.
Careers and having to have friends and earn skills- yes, it's been around forever- I don't mind that. I'm not sure how I feel about mini-goals for school and careers.
- I don't always want to play painters and Sims without careers if that's the only way. Probably don't want to play all the careers, either.
I wonder how much more they're going to add. I do want some, but it has to be mixed with happy freedom. It must be so hard because I know EA wants the newer players who are goal driven- or seem to love the goal driven play from what I read here.
I'm so glad I haven't bought the game and have to make myself play to try and like it- as I've read a lot of people done with TS4. I just want to like it out of the box and play because I want to play it. I get so depressed when I read how people now like the game after making themselves play it for over a week or a 100 hours. So depressing...
Yes I didn't mind the old way of getting promotions, as it still left you with choices for how you wanted to accomplish this. I think the mini goals should be optional, if you do them, you get promoted faster, but don't have to do them in order to have your sim succeed.
I agree the developers have some tough choices, and alot of work ahead of them. I really wish they could have kept a better balance, what they will and can do, only the future will tell. I wish them luck.
I also agree that it is sad that some have found they have to force themselves to like the game. If I don't enjoy something, i'm surley not going to force myself into it. We should be able to enjoy it from the start, and continue to enjoy it for years to come, that was always the beauty of the Sims, as long as you could imagine, it never got old. All of the goals really put replay value at about zero for me, and that is not a sims game I have any interest in playing.
I was actually given the sims 4 by my dude. I suppose it was to have me give it another chance because when I first got it I played for an hr or so, said 'NOPE!' And got a refund.
Refund was now out of the question so I thought o myself "what-e-vah I'll give it another shot." I think he's regretting it now. Whole game play I was like "Nope.....NOPE...Nopenopenopenope." 50hrs of nope-ing
I've said this before but Sims 4 completely abandoned its roots, and one of its play-styles. Adding things into the game is a step up but really I do hope they go back in the way of sims 2(I managed to get the Ultimate collection guys from a really helpful ea agent!!!!)) and some of sims 3 additions because honestly, playing this game was not at all appealing, and I refuse to lower my standards in order to like a game part of a franchise that usually followed in the footsteps of its predecessors more. They should not have named this 'The sims' because this is no sequel.
I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
What aren't you understanding? Some of us want to fill goals but not in the manner they have been written? We don't want to cheat to get a promotion. For the tenth time. A Sim needs a body skill in the TS4 for the astronaut career. I want my Sim to reach the top of that one day, because it's supposed to be a people simulator where people get real jobs. Or at least 90% is a people simulator if you consider the magic etc. that is added later in them.
Alright he needs that body skill to get a promotion. But how does EA tell me to do that? They tell me 'He HAS to' Go to the Gym, no amount of cheating is going to register he went to the gym..or if it does I'm not going to use that cheat. I don't want to go to the Gym. I want my Sim to have fun My Way. I want to earn that point at home, maybe in front of the TV, or in a pool, or on Any Exercise Machine. Or at a Skating Rink if there was one and 'I' Feel like taking them there, Or by Jogging, or by Swimming or by Yoga, or fifteen other ways like we always have in the past. The point is Even If I Earn A new body skill the game isn't going to count it because I didn't go to the Gym to get it.
That is not sandbox.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
It's not about the goals, nor is it about unlocking locked objects. It's about the lack of creative freedom due to the scripted elements of gameplay. The sims was originally created as "the ultimate God game". The player was given the tools to create a world, to fill it with people, and to set their lives in motion.
The player chose which goals to pursue and how to achieve those goals. The player made the choices. Now, our choices are limited. We're given one specific path to follow to reach a milestone. If we play two sims with that particular milestone, we must repeat the process. If we play a third sim with that particular milestone, yes, once again we must go through the exact same step-by-step process. Oh, you say, why not just choose different aspirations? Aha! See...if I were to do that, I would be succumbing to a limitation imposed upon me by the structure of the game.
Cheats don't change the fact that scripted play takes away the player's creative freedom.
It's even worse when I have a date. My sim had a date and it was a huge succes in my opinion. The guy I wanted to fall for her did. What's more, they ended up in her bed and the next morning she was pregnant (which was my goal, I wanted a baby ). My game however was deeply disappointed. Because I didn't do anything with all those goals it wanted me to fulfill. So I got a sad tune and a bad moodlet. Misery misery. While we were expecting a baby from the guy we wanted to catch!
I really dislike it when people say ignore features of the game...cheat! As if we paid $70 to not play the game.
The easy solution is to make the goals modular so they cater to several different style players. So you can still have your goals while the rest of us also have our sandbox.
I agree. I want goals. I don't want to cheat.
I just don't want those goals to be an identical path that I have to follow every time I play them. Some of these tasks don't make sense for my sim anyway. I would rather have some flexibility and choice, and perhaps a little strategy and creative thought instead of, "Do this. Now do this and this."
I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
Ever thought some people don't like cheating or adding third-party bits to their game?
Also, I don't think there is a mod out there to make the sims 4 open world, or have the quirky hilarious bits like sims 2 have. Also can't ignore the goals of running on a treadmill 10million times because if we don't complete that goal on that specific object, our sims get no promotion.
Pay 70 bucks to have to then mod search and cheat. Sounds legit. (Not.)
I don't get why people are using the word "forced."
There have been many, many times where I will see an aspiration complete during regular casual game play.
If I pick an aspiration that compliments the career my sim chose, this happens even more frequently. These tasks are not difficult or time consuming, and most of them can be complete through regular game play. Just because the game asks you to make 10 dishes, doesn't mean you need top pump them all out in one night. Your sim WILL meet these requirements eventually.
It's forced as in it pops in your face consistantly. It's tied to everything so it's quite forced. Simply put people choose to ignore it doesn't make it less in your face. Really what if players don't want to fulfill them at all. Don't want to be bothered with them. No way of getting out of it or around it.
that's why they should have been designed as optional.
I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
I want to play a game that doesn't need cheats.
And I want a game that has great assignments, not repetitive, random and boring ones.
Honestly, I can't play this game for longer than a few hours at a time, and I constantly have to start with new Sims. I've been playing the Sims since the release of TS1. I'm having a hard time discerning whether it's just that I am no longer a fan of playing with dolls, or TS4 really is just a very bad RPG game masquerading itself as a Sims game. I am leaning towards the latter. This game is sapping my creative spirit. The lack of freedom and formulaic style is stifling. I even went and re-installed all my TS2 games to play again I am that bored. It's bad.
It's so PLAINLY obvious that this was supposed to be an MMO. Sims is NOT meant to be an MMO. So disappointing.
I don't get why people are using the word "forced."
There have been many, many times where I will see an aspiration complete during regular casual game play.
If I pick an aspiration that compliments the career my sim chose, this happens even more frequently. These tasks are not difficult or time consuming, and most of them can be complete through regular game play. Just because the game asks you to make 10 dishes, doesn't mean you need top pump them all out in one night. Your sim WILL meet these requirements eventually.
The main point is that a game should have challenges you feel you like to achieve.
I don't want to play a game in which I feel like ignoring them because they're crap.
I'll play a different game then, one with great challenges.
The power of The Sims is sandbox. They changed that concept by putting in poor challenges.
That way the sandbox people will be disappointed ánd the people who play games because they want to be challenged.
It's neither fish nor fowl really.
I don't even understand why people are complaining about this. Ignore the goals. Play with cheats. Play however you want. Nobody is making you do anything. There's a mod to unlock locked objects.
What aren't you understanding? Some of us want to fill goals but not in the manner they have been written? We don't want to cheat to get a promotion. For the tenth time. A Sim needs a body skill in the TS4 for the astronaut career. I want my Sim to reach the top of that one day, because it's supposed to be a people simulator where people get real jobs. Or at least 90% is a people simulator if you consider the magic etc. that is added later in them.
Alright he needs that body skill to get a promotion. But how does EA tell me to do that? They tell me 'He HAS to' Go to the Gym, no amount of cheating is going to register he went to the gym..or if it does I'm not going to use that cheat. I don't want to go to the Gym. I want my Sim to have fun My Way. I want to earn that point at home, maybe in front of the TV, or in a pool, or on Any Exercise Machine. Or at a Skating Rink if there was one and 'I' Feel like taking them there, Or by Jogging, or by Swimming or by Yoga, or fifteen other ways like we always have in the past. The point is Even If I Earn A new body skill the game isn't going to count it because I didn't go to the Gym to get it.
That is not sandbox.
I do play multiple adult Sims and multiple households. I also have to play with aging off especially when working g on careers. It is a busy thing and it is a lot to do, but I would rather have a lot to do than not enough.
This post you made though, I totally understand and agree with. If body skill is needed , why does it have to be obtained a certain way?
Well, I just don't know what to say? I just don't see how you are forced to play with the objectives. You can "x" out whims, you don't even have to look at the achievements if you don't want to. If you want your sim to be promoted in his job, you have to do certain things, but we did that in both the original and Sims 2. Not in 3, if you showed up, that was good enough. But I just don't see how you are forced to do anything in t4. I don't.
By the way, I play the sims, I play hidden objects games, (but don't look for collections in the sims) and occasionally I will play one of the many RPG games that I buy, install, load up once or twice and try to figure out why I buy them. *shakes head at my own weirdness* because I never play them more than a couple hours in total. Rarely will I play one for an afternoon. I do have a console, but I use it for Netflix and my movies, again I buy a game for it, but don't like how far away I have to sit to play it, so I usually don't. I consistently and almost daily play the Sims. So, I really don't think you can say that people who like RPG or console games like the sims 4.
I do not see how you are forced in any way whatsoever into playing this game one way. I don't. IF you choose to, you can. IF you don't want to, you don't have to.
I would like to see some specifics as to how you are forced? I'm seeing a lot of generalities and unsubstantiated accusations, I'm not seeing a single "for instance" as to how you are forced to follow linear game play. How are your sims put at a disadvantage? In what specific way? Is it over and over or a simple "here and there" situation? I simply do not see it. So prove it, I guess I'm saying. I don't mean to sound superior or EA apologist in any way, I simply do not see where I or anyone is forced to play one way. I'd like it explained to me, in specifics with several examples. I guess I'm just not smart enough to see where you all are coming from.
If I want my Sims to get promotion then I must grind Windweaver. No longer is it 'my' choice how I will gain a skill like in the past but now, it's a particular set of objectives and or ways of where and when and what to use to skill if that is any clearer. In the past games the Player decided how to get a promotion and or actually the skill to get promoted. If you want the Sim to be successful and get more money and get a promotion and that career reward It Is somewhat different this time. It's no longer about me thinking up fun ways to gain a skill ( I rarely had Sims read books in the TS2 unless there was no choice) now, it's all about the grind to get there. Read the whole thread there are many examples of why it is now too linear.
Hi Cinebar,
I play t2 or did up til this game was released, and you always HAD to get specific skills and a certain number of friends. Always. That's why I used the custom jobs b/c the Acting career from mts didn't have a friends requirement that you had to have, just skills. Consequently, all my sims had that job. It was fun b/c every once in a while a card would pop up that if you answered it right, your sim would get $500000. That was really fun....to me. I'm not finding it all that different with 4. But maybe we each focus on something different the way we each play our game. I guess? I just don't see any difference between 2 & 4 in the job department. Well....yes, there is a difference b/c they added things like earn so much tips if your sim is in the music industry. In ts2, that's what my sims did for a living. I built a bar, and they formed a band and I sent them out to play. Before OFB came out, my sims could bring in a grand or more a night, lol. Once that ep hit, never again. But I had more fun in the very early days of t2 than any other time playing the Sims Franchise. But that's me, I guess. The music job is really all my sims do, I really haven't explored any other career in 4 except the artist job, and that's new, so whatever they do would be different.
Anyway, I'm real sorry you all find it a grind. I'm having fun, I hope more feel like I do rather than the other way, for fear they will dump the game like they did TSM. That's my biggest fear right now.
ETA:
As I go through the thread I found this, that Cinebar also said:
See by being able to actually fail there is a risk and a challenge but the player plays their way how to get there or not. The difference in the past TS1 and TS2 is the player was told this Sim needs this many skills this time before they can get promoted. Fair enough it could be tedious but not pressing. Nor did it include telling the player things like 'play the guitar ten times'. That is redundancy. And too much a chore and too much linear scripted play.
> @NoWayJose527 said: > I've been a "simmer" for as long as there have been Sims. Until Sims 3 came along, I bought every game, every expansion pack, and every "stuff pack". Simming wasn't a game to me. It was a thoroughly enjoyable hobby, one in which I invested a considerable amount of both time and money. > > I loved The Sims because it was open-ended, because there were no rules on how to play, no scores to achieve, nothing but a wondrous, creative sandbox filled with options and choices for my sims. > > Now, the creative aspects of The Sims are being taken away. Our sandbox has been replaced with a dreadful "objective-based" game that TELLS us what we are SUPPOSED to do and which places our sims at a disadvantage if we FAIL to play along. > > I want my sandbox back. > > I don't want any more "mini-games" with scores, objectives, and "follow-the-numbers" checklists telling me what my sims need to do. I especially don't want to look ahead to a series of expansion packs that provide no creative grist for the imaginative mill, but only more dull, repetitive game play with more developer-provided goals to achieve. > > I want to choose what my sims will do and how they will achieve the objectives I set for them. I want the freedom to let my imagination go in whatever direction I choose. > > I want my sandbox back, EA, and I'm not the only one who feels this way.
YESSSSSS!
*Starts a slow clap*
I agree with this sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much!!!!
I hated the repetitive objectives in TS3 World Adventures. I'm kind of annoyed that they brought back objectives with s4.
I didn't read the whole thread. Just wanted to say to OP: I still play both Sims 1 and 2, and there are goals for careers, Making Magic, Open for Business, etc...
Not sure why you think they've never been there.
Truthfully, you don't even need to meet the goals in the Sims 3 or 4 half the time. They're just there to give you something to do if you can't think of anything else. It's no big deal. Once they're done, they're done--then you can play any way you like.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
No, I didn't, I asked why is it so horrible to request they change some of how this is all implemented? Why is it? Because you are bored in a life simulator and can't find anything to do in a game like The Sims? Isn't that the real argument? You personally don't have enough imagination to play as the Sims but Need those goals to make you feel like you are playing a video game? is that assuming? or closer to the truth?
This IS the Sims!!!!! The game you are bashing, it is the Sims! FCOL!
The dating system in Sims 4 is almost the same as in Sims 2, just presented in a different way. In Sims 2, as soon as the date starts you see the wishes and fears of both Sims on the date. They are mostly related to romance. Possibly one Sim wants to kiss, play, go out to eat, and give a backrub. The other has a different list of wants. Sometimes their wishes coincide. Sometimes it's not possible to achieve the wish without a lot of hard work. (For instance, if one Sim wants to make out and the couple doesn't know each other well, you'll need to work toward that goal during the date.)
Once you know the system, you can get a dream date every time, but in order to get the dream date you HAVE to fulfill the wishes. Sims 4 is the same, except instead of saying Joe Sim wants to kiss Sue Sim, and later telling you Joe Sim wants to kiss again, it just says "kiss twice." In both cases you kiss twice to get a good score. This is not new or anything to do with role-playing games. It is just a gameplay mechanic well established in The Sims. The difference is that it's easier in The Sims 4.
The party also had a meter in Sims 2, but the "goals" were hidden from view. It was sometimes difficult to stop a party from going south. Sims 4 makes the mechanics plain so you can influence how it's going if you wish. You can also turn off the goals if you want. I've had a Sims 4 party that way. It is not difficult to uncheck a check box. You couldn't do that in Sims 2. So Sims 4 offers more freedom, not less.
Btw, for those who have not noticed, you don't get the same goals for every party or date.
It was difficult to get promoted in Sims 1 and Sims 2. You had goals to achieve and they weren't easy. Sims 4 is different because the goals are far more varied, make much more sense in the context of the career being pursued, and are a lot more interesting to carry out than simply sitting around reading books for hours on end. It's a lot harder to get fired in Sims 4 (if you can get fired at all?), and I regret that. I want more gameplay and challenge, not less. If all challenge is taken away from career paths I will not want to play the game.
I'll add that I am not thrilled by the Sims 3 innovation of collecting. (There was actually a little of this at the end of Sims 2.) So I just do not play it right now. Eventually I will pick one Sim to give it a shot and who knows, maybe I'll like it. Meantime, no one is forcing me to collect rocks or whatever. I am free to play however I like, as is everyone else.
No, I could say like need that body skill well, I wasn't told I had to go to the gym to get it...and if I don't the skill I gain at home isn't going to count..see my point? No, I would rather Me Decide how I want that body skill. Is it working out at home? or in front of the TV while I'm busy with others actually living a life, or going out to the pool for a family fun pool time? See? this is the difference. Even If I want to Gain That body Skill in A more fun way to me, it's not going to count at all.
I agree, and quoted that as I think it's well-stated. I'm seeing a lot of people just stating and re-stating "There are goals in 1-3," etc. It seems clear to me that we're just not all on the same page when we discuss 'goals' or what 'forcing' us to do something means.
There were indeed goals and rewards in the earlier games too. The issue is that those goals were defined in broad strokes. Reach Logic skill of 4. That was the sort of goal you'd see in the earlier games. So I could have my Sim play chess or look for new stars with the telescope, I could do programming work in TS4, and so on. Any of those, either singly or in any combination I chose could be used to reach the goal of getting Logic to 4.
Now in TS4, the goals are, for the most part, defined much more narrowly. Instead of 'Reach Logic 4,' more often I will get a goal like, "Write a game mod." Or with that Body/Athletics skill example, rather than simply needing to raise the skill (and being free to choose any means I prefer), I have to specifically go use a punching bag. And often, not only use a punching bag, but it has to be a punching bag at a gym. That's the difference.
What I (and some others, by the look of things) are asking for, is to go back to more broadly-stated goals that allow us freedom in how we accomplish them. The current narrowly-defined goals instead dictate precisely what you have to do (and often where), which is why we say they 'force' us to do things in a particular way.
I just want the freedom to have those choices -- to be given a goal that can be completed in multiple different ways. So if I have a Sim who I've decided is a boxer, yes, he can go some rounds with that punching bag. But I can also have a lady Sim who's still fitness-oriented but she focuses on jogging. Or one Sim is outgoing and loves to go to the gym, but the other is a loner and stays home on her own treadmill. (Because the game doesn't dictate the how/where of things, it just gives me a broad goal to shoot for.)
Comments
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explain.
If I ignore the goals, I have zero chance of unlocking rewards - the only way to unlock is to be forced to go through all the steps without any options on how to complete said steps.
I have never played with mods or cheats, & imo shouldn't have to do so.
The reason we're complaining is because having our options removed for HOW we do things is as big a deal to us as toddlers being taken away is to legacy/family players. It's a game-breaker. It destroys our ability to get immersed in this game the way we've been able to since the beginning of the series.
I was actually given the sims 4 by my dude. I suppose it was to have me give it another chance because when I first got it I played for an hr or so, said 'NOPE!' And got a refund.
Refund was now out of the question so I thought o myself "what-e-vah I'll give it another shot." I think he's regretting it now. Whole game play I was like "Nope.....NOPE...Nopenopenopenope." 50hrs of nope-ing
I've said this before but Sims 4 completely abandoned its roots, and one of its play-styles. Adding things into the game is a step up but really I do hope they go back in the way of sims 2(I managed to get the Ultimate collection guys from a really helpful ea agent!!!!)) and some of sims 3 additions because honestly, playing this game was not at all appealing, and I refuse to lower my standards in order to like a game part of a franchise that usually followed in the footsteps of its predecessors more. They should not have named this 'The sims' because this is no sequel.
What aren't you understanding? Some of us want to fill goals but not in the manner they have been written? We don't want to cheat to get a promotion. For the tenth time. A Sim needs a body skill in the TS4 for the astronaut career. I want my Sim to reach the top of that one day, because it's supposed to be a people simulator where people get real jobs. Or at least 90% is a people simulator if you consider the magic etc. that is added later in them.
Alright he needs that body skill to get a promotion. But how does EA tell me to do that? They tell me 'He HAS to' Go to the Gym, no amount of cheating is going to register he went to the gym..or if it does I'm not going to use that cheat. I don't want to go to the Gym. I want my Sim to have fun My Way. I want to earn that point at home, maybe in front of the TV, or in a pool, or on Any Exercise Machine. Or at a Skating Rink if there was one and 'I' Feel like taking them there, Or by Jogging, or by Swimming or by Yoga, or fifteen other ways like we always have in the past. The point is Even If I Earn A new body skill the game isn't going to count it because I didn't go to the Gym to get it.
That is not sandbox.
It's not about the goals, nor is it about unlocking locked objects. It's about the lack of creative freedom due to the scripted elements of gameplay. The sims was originally created as "the ultimate God game". The player was given the tools to create a world, to fill it with people, and to set their lives in motion.
The player chose which goals to pursue and how to achieve those goals. The player made the choices. Now, our choices are limited. We're given one specific path to follow to reach a milestone. If we play two sims with that particular milestone, we must repeat the process. If we play a third sim with that particular milestone, yes, once again we must go through the exact same step-by-step process. Oh, you say, why not just choose different aspirations? Aha! See...if I were to do that, I would be succumbing to a limitation imposed upon me by the structure of the game.
Cheats don't change the fact that scripted play takes away the player's creative freedom.
Good Example of NOT a sandbox!
I agree. I want goals. I don't want to cheat.
I just don't want those goals to be an identical path that I have to follow every time I play them. Some of these tasks don't make sense for my sim anyway. I would rather have some flexibility and choice, and perhaps a little strategy and creative thought instead of, "Do this. Now do this and this."
Ever thought some people don't like cheating or adding third-party bits to their game?
Also, I don't think there is a mod out there to make the sims 4 open world, or have the quirky hilarious bits like sims 2 have. Also can't ignore the goals of running on a treadmill 10million times because if we don't complete that goal on that specific object, our sims get no promotion.
Pay 70 bucks to have to then mod search and cheat. Sounds legit. (Not.)
It's forced as in it pops in your face consistantly. It's tied to everything so it's quite forced. Simply put people choose to ignore it doesn't make it less in your face. Really what if players don't want to fulfill them at all. Don't want to be bothered with them. No way of getting out of it or around it.
that's why they should have been designed as optional.
And I want a game that has great assignments, not repetitive, random and boring ones.
It's so PLAINLY obvious that this was supposed to be an MMO. Sims is NOT meant to be an MMO. So disappointing.
I don't want to play a game in which I feel like ignoring them because they're crap.
I'll play a different game then, one with great challenges.
The power of The Sims is sandbox. They changed that concept by putting in poor challenges.
That way the sandbox people will be disappointed ánd the people who play games because they want to be challenged.
It's neither fish nor fowl really.
I do play multiple adult Sims and multiple households. I also have to play with aging off especially when working g on careers. It is a busy thing and it is a lot to do, but I would rather have a lot to do than not enough.
This post you made though, I totally understand and agree with. If body skill is needed , why does it have to be obtained a certain way?
Hi Cinebar,
I play t2 or did up til this game was released, and you always HAD to get specific skills and a certain number of friends. Always. That's why I used the custom jobs b/c the Acting career from mts didn't have a friends requirement that you had to have, just skills. Consequently, all my sims had that job. It was fun b/c every once in a while a card would pop up that if you answered it right, your sim would get $500000. That was really fun....to me. I'm not finding it all that different with 4. But maybe we each focus on something different the way we each play our game. I guess? I just don't see any difference between 2 & 4 in the job department. Well....yes, there is a difference b/c they added things like earn so much tips if your sim is in the music industry. In ts2, that's what my sims did for a living. I built a bar, and they formed a band and I sent them out to play. Before OFB came out, my sims could bring in a grand or more a night, lol. Once that ep hit, never again. But I had more fun in the very early days of t2 than any other time playing the Sims Franchise. But that's me, I guess. The music job is really all my sims do, I really haven't explored any other career in 4 except the artist job, and that's new, so whatever they do would be different.
Anyway, I'm real sorry you all find it a grind. I'm having fun, I hope more feel like I do rather than the other way, for fear they will dump the game like they did TSM. That's my biggest fear right now.
ETA:
As I go through the thread I found this, that Cinebar also said:
See by being able to actually fail there is a risk and a challenge but the player plays their way how to get there or not. The difference in the past TS1 and TS2 is the player was told this Sim needs this many skills this time before they can get promoted. Fair enough it could be tedious but not pressing. Nor did it include telling the player things like 'play the guitar ten times'. That is redundancy. And too much a chore and too much linear scripted play.
Now I get what you are saying. Sorry.
> I've been a "simmer" for as long as there have been Sims. Until Sims 3 came along, I bought every game, every expansion pack, and every "stuff pack". Simming wasn't a game to me. It was a thoroughly enjoyable hobby, one in which I invested a considerable amount of both time and money.
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> I loved The Sims because it was open-ended, because there were no rules on how to play, no scores to achieve, nothing but a wondrous, creative sandbox filled with options and choices for my sims.
>
> Now, the creative aspects of The Sims are being taken away. Our sandbox has been replaced with a dreadful "objective-based" game that TELLS us what we are SUPPOSED to do and which places our sims at a disadvantage if we FAIL to play along.
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> I want my sandbox back.
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> I don't want any more "mini-games" with scores, objectives, and "follow-the-numbers" checklists telling me what my sims need to do. I especially don't want to look ahead to a series of expansion packs that provide no creative grist for the imaginative mill, but only more dull, repetitive game play with more developer-provided goals to achieve.
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> I want to choose what my sims will do and how they will achieve the objectives I set for them. I want the freedom to let my imagination go in whatever direction I choose.
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> I want my sandbox back, EA, and I'm not the only one who feels this way.
YESSSSSS!
*Starts a slow clap*
I agree with this sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much!!!!
I hated the repetitive objectives in TS3 World Adventures. I'm kind of annoyed that they brought back objectives with s4.
Not sure why you think they've never been there.
Truthfully, you don't even need to meet the goals in the Sims 3 or 4 half the time. They're just there to give you something to do if you can't think of anything else. It's no big deal. Once they're done, they're done--then you can play any way you like.
This IS the Sims!!!!! The game you are bashing, it is the Sims! FCOL!
*EA fills a cup with your tears and drinks*
I hope EA drowns in my tears.
sadly they've learned to swim in it, because they're still bring many people to cry -.-
I will flood their studios.
Too bad they put the pools in their studios and not in our games...
Once you know the system, you can get a dream date every time, but in order to get the dream date you HAVE to fulfill the wishes. Sims 4 is the same, except instead of saying Joe Sim wants to kiss Sue Sim, and later telling you Joe Sim wants to kiss again, it just says "kiss twice." In both cases you kiss twice to get a good score. This is not new or anything to do with role-playing games. It is just a gameplay mechanic well established in The Sims. The difference is that it's easier in The Sims 4.
The party also had a meter in Sims 2, but the "goals" were hidden from view. It was sometimes difficult to stop a party from going south. Sims 4 makes the mechanics plain so you can influence how it's going if you wish. You can also turn off the goals if you want. I've had a Sims 4 party that way. It is not difficult to uncheck a check box. You couldn't do that in Sims 2. So Sims 4 offers more freedom, not less.
Btw, for those who have not noticed, you don't get the same goals for every party or date.
It was difficult to get promoted in Sims 1 and Sims 2. You had goals to achieve and they weren't easy. Sims 4 is different because the goals are far more varied, make much more sense in the context of the career being pursued, and are a lot more interesting to carry out than simply sitting around reading books for hours on end. It's a lot harder to get fired in Sims 4 (if you can get fired at all?), and I regret that. I want more gameplay and challenge, not less. If all challenge is taken away from career paths I will not want to play the game.
I'll add that I am not thrilled by the Sims 3 innovation of collecting. (There was actually a little of this at the end of Sims 2.) So I just do not play it right now. Eventually I will pick one Sim to give it a shot and who knows, maybe I'll like it. Meantime, no one is forcing me to collect rocks or whatever. I am free to play however I like, as is everyone else.
I agree, and quoted that as I think it's well-stated. I'm seeing a lot of people just stating and re-stating "There are goals in 1-3," etc. It seems clear to me that we're just not all on the same page when we discuss 'goals' or what 'forcing' us to do something means.
There were indeed goals and rewards in the earlier games too. The issue is that those goals were defined in broad strokes. Reach Logic skill of 4. That was the sort of goal you'd see in the earlier games. So I could have my Sim play chess or look for new stars with the telescope, I could do programming work in TS4, and so on. Any of those, either singly or in any combination I chose could be used to reach the goal of getting Logic to 4.
Now in TS4, the goals are, for the most part, defined much more narrowly. Instead of 'Reach Logic 4,' more often I will get a goal like, "Write a game mod." Or with that Body/Athletics skill example, rather than simply needing to raise the skill (and being free to choose any means I prefer), I have to specifically go use a punching bag. And often, not only use a punching bag, but it has to be a punching bag at a gym. That's the difference.
What I (and some others, by the look of things) are asking for, is to go back to more broadly-stated goals that allow us freedom in how we accomplish them. The current narrowly-defined goals instead dictate precisely what you have to do (and often where), which is why we say they 'force' us to do things in a particular way.
I just want the freedom to have those choices -- to be given a goal that can be completed in multiple different ways. So if I have a Sim who I've decided is a boxer, yes, he can go some rounds with that punching bag. But I can also have a lady Sim who's still fitness-oriented but she focuses on jogging. Or one Sim is outgoing and loves to go to the gym, but the other is a loner and stays home on her own treadmill. (Because the game doesn't dictate the how/where of things, it just gives me a broad goal to shoot for.)