Forum Announcement, Click Here to Read More From EA_Cade.
Is this Unethical?
niac1234
Posts: 6,735 Member
I recently started making a swiss mountain world because I did not think fondly of Hidden Springs before, but recently I've opened it up and started playing with the world, and I've realized that it actually is a very well made world, the layout is just awful, and that downtown is despicable. I thought it would be a fun project to take the lite world and recreate it in a way that makes sense. Is it unethical to upload that re-imagining of the world?
0
Comments
If it's an EA/Maxis world, then you cannot upload it to The Exchange.
If it's another creator's world, then you would need their permission but, as a rule of thumb, no you should not redistribute what is essentially their product. Unless they get abducted by aliens and can't update a broken world. Exceptions can be made in the case of alien abductions.
But the fact remains - only each of us can decide what we think is ethical - seeing different regions of the world teaches people differently about such things - I guess it has to be up to the individual.
I enjoy taking empty versions of worlds that the creators have put out there and doing them up my way - but I don't share them very often. I would definitely not put them out in a thread and such - but for me personally I just believe anything created by someone belongs to them. I realize that is just the way I am - so I can't decide one way or the other for you.
All I can suggest is think how you would feel if someone did that to you and shared it with every one. If it doesn't bother you, then you could probably be comfortable with it.
Me, well I couldn't.
But ethically, I would not feel right telling YOU what you should do one way or the other. So that is a tough question for me anyway.
Now that I have been totally useless in helping with your dilemma - guess I 'll go check in what ever else is going on. Sorry I wasn't much help. Just search your own heart on the matter.
ETA - As the other simmer says - if it is your world there is no good reason I can think of why you couldn't update it or redo it anyway you see fit. In fact many simmers love updated worlds. I do.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I understand your sentiment. If I were to upload it at all, it would be a complete redo of the world. the only thing that would stay consistent is the background and the theme. I'd also probably borrow a few lots. :XD: It'd be like Elle's fantasy world, Moon valley. You wouldn't even recognize the world easily if you weren't looking. (well I don't know if it'd be THAT drastic
The biggest moral question for me is the question of paying for the world. Except for the few objects that comes with Hidden Springs, there's no reason why you would need to own the world before downloading this custom world, therefore, you're just bypassing the process of paying for the world by downloading my world.
If I upload at all, it'll be on mediafire I believe. I'm really only doing this for me. I really want a proper Swiss mountain village to play in.
Oh, whoops. :XD:
I fixed the OP, it should make sense now.
EA gets real testy over that kind of thing - I would not dare advise.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
If just the world is used with none of the content from that world like in the case of the two simmers that used just the world map - they got permanbanned for violating the TOS and altering EA's content so it was sharable.
But I also know there are a couple of versions of EP worlds some simmers have shared on here - like Aunty Lynds made the ITF world into a regular world and shared and a couple simmers have made the WA worlds into regular worlds and shared those and so far they are still here - but the two that used store worlds got axed hard. One I read owned the store and at least 6 other EA games and lost access to everything. The EA games required servers as they were the mmo type and that person cannot even get on the servers - can't get a new account or anything. It has been over a year and they were still ranting about it over on FB a while back.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
i think its fine to alter a sims world, including a store world as long as the files you upload require the player to already have the necessary files, in this case HS
because sharing/providing the protected files then becomes a bigger issue then an ethical one.
i dont use the exchange and always thought they prevented being able to share store files, meaning the file wouldnt DL for the player that didnt own the necessary files
if you are able to upload store worlds with out this protection then i wouldnt upload here. but i know of many world creators that make the necessary store world files required instead of sharing and just post the altered world with requirements outside the exchange.
as for banning you maintain a right to access the game and content
http://help.ea.com/en/article/electronic-arts-account-suspension-policy/
As far as the ethics...as long as you give proper credit I wouldn't personally have an issue with it. I often upload EA lots that I have re-done (though I have never done this with a store-designed lot) and I state clearly the original lot name and that it is simply a redesign. Sometimes they are pretty extensive, but if I start with someone else's lot I give credit. Even EA.
However, considering this is store content...a perma-ban could be an issue. Personally I wouldn't risk that, considering what others have said about loosing access to MMO servers and such. Not worth the risk, IMHO.
Maybe you could make the world for yourself, but not share it. Ruins part of the fun, but you would still get the amazing world you desire.
Dreamsong's Simblog
:shock: I would hope so!
Dreamsong's Simblog
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
You can also share a save file of any world all you want because a simmer has to own the world for the save file to work. There are even threads here where a simmer has redone a world and shared the save - it is just there is no place on this site to share a save file so it generally has to be done in a files share, or blog share, or some other place they can share the file. But technically no rules have been broken and no security circumvented to do that.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
(the section on losing accounts and all access is here - second paragraph -
9. Termination of EA Services)
here is EA's TOS - all the info can be found in there. It is also on every page of the site down bottom of every page on this site in the blue area - click on Terms of Service. Saying you don't know the rules will not be acceptable to EA seeing they make sure it is well posted and it is up to us to read it and know them.
You can find the Eula in every game you buy from EA - it is that big paragraph that we click "I agree" to in order to install the game. So by clicking that, you are telling them you know what that says and are agreeing to it.
I read everything and never agree to anything until I know what I am agreeing to.
But the TOS completely covers everything and is agreed upon and followed by the courts - it is your contract with EA and using their copywritten materials, their site, their games - everything. It is eye opening as they do not accept "I did not know that" as they make darn sure it is very visible everywhere.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
your position is clear re all that you have mentioned and i am in no way trying to change your position again the posting since its coming from EA i felt was relevant to balance out the statement and it was for others.
additionally i do not share in your opinion of how strict Ea is in practice re S3Pe. for example S3Pe is linked to here in a sticky plus folks are able to freely discussion the program. this is in contrasts to other certain mods i can think of that if merely mentioned will get the thread deleted so of course linking in a sticky is out of the question. i also dont think you are aware that S3pe cant read a store world file w/o assistance and that its used for many modding things like changing out ini files like weather- again links to these files are in stickies and so forth
without a doubt no one is suggesting breaking any rules and laws governing piracy but i again differ in what i am able discuss here about the game and contents i lawfully own. i also do think EA is tolerant of modding but for one type - which again no one is suggesting.
like i mentioned before i dont use exchange and so cant speak to the full workings of it but i also prefer official statements that directly answer questions about how EA allows its site to run in practice.
respectfully you of course have every right to your take on the situation and opinions and but i also submit others do as well.
and moving forward lets just accept we do not see eye to eye on many EA matters and just respect and accept that.
I just would not want to advise - as of the two I know banned only one had redone a store world - the other had redone an ep world. Yet some do get away with it - but I would not want to be the one that did it and have to worry about if EA did see it - seeing they made it pretty clear we are not allowed to do that.
If I was you I would just find a user created world that a creator is willing to share the empty CAW files with you. I am sure there must be a few out there that would suit your idea and then you are safe as long as you give the creator credit for the map.
I just would never encourage anyone to break the rules.
I agree that a Swiss world would be fun...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
ETA
As to why some can do it and nothing happens and others get their posts removed and account taken I have no clue. But to make a big noise about it is just liable to put some real good people that have done likewise in the same boat and I would rather not see that happen.
I do feel a creators work should not be used in that manner without their permission - but I do think it is a bit harsh of EA not to allow us to use all the things we bought and share - but I am not about to buck them either.
By the way we don't any longer buy and own games from EA - we are buying a license to use their games - I also find that leaves a particular bad taste in my mouth and even hate saying it - but that is part of what we agree to also when we click "I agree" before we can install their game.
Read the TOS yourself - it also mentions in there about losing your accounts etc, etc. But honestly it is no hair off my back what anyone does - or yours either for that fact. I am just not a rule breaker. I have never even had a parking ticket - even if I don't like a rule or agree with it - I will follow the rule regardless. I guess I am no innovator. I prefer peace and harmony to strife. That's just who I am. You are surely more than welcomed to agree or disagree - as I said above I do disagree with the rule, but the fact it is there I am going to adhere to it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I think it is pretty ethical, if you don't like completely what you have to change something is ok. Put it out for exchange is okay too (I put most of my things out in case I need to re-install my comp). What can make it unethical- interring contests with it, competing with regular creations. To be safe- best is write something in description.
Back to the original issue, as far as I know exchange policy is that re-uploading EA worlds is a big huge no-no. Some people have uploaded lite versions of worlds before, so I'm not sure if this policy is absolute or only speaking strictly in terms of included content, but your best bet is to just stay away. Besides, there's more pride to be had in creating a world yourself from a greyscale or the sculpting tools (If you have strong -ambitions- SEE WAT I DID THAR?)
1. Is the world largely identical to the original?
If yes, then don't upload it. If you can't upload it without another player recognizing that it's eerily similar to the original world, then you've probably done something unethical.
2. Did you create the world from scratch, by yourself, or only used materials which were open-source (i.e, the authors gave permission for you to use it)?
If yes, then you're in good shape -- feel free to upload it.
I see nothing wrong with borrowing "themes" and "feel." You can not copyright feelings or general concepts, like 'quaint and rustic' or 'Victorian horror story', and I dare say that anyone who tries to lay claim to general themes as their own are actually the unethical ones. You need to just make sure that:
1. Your world is not shaped the same
2. The lots are not reused -- create your own or use (with permission) ones made by other players
3. You do not name the lots the same thing as in the original work
4. The 'story' is not the same
What this really means is you do not know what the limits are.
Of course the real question is WHY you would want to upload someone else's work and claim it as your own. I guess there are kids who plagiarize their term papers or otherwise cheat. I know it happens, but I don't even pretend to understand it. Is it just that these people lack imagination or is it just laziness?
Excuse me? I don't appreciate your tone. I'm not some kid who wants to take EA's credit for a world, and it's not like I'm stealing their work. I think we all can tell that EA did the terrain for the world and can take credit for the original.
People upload redone versions of EA worlds all of the time. It's mostly a utility so that people do not need to deal with placing all of the EP and store lots into these worlds and it's perfectly o.k. My concern is the economic aspect of it.
I had to deal with people plagiarizing my work about a year ago, and for you to compare me to that type of scum is very insulting and hurtful. boy I wish I could swear on this site. Why don't you stop throwing around insults and start looking into who you are dealing with? I clearly have a lot of original content in my studio and, at least I think, don't completely lack creativity like you accuse me of.
Well, excuse me for giving you a direct and honest answer to your question. We're you, perhaps, hoping that people would tell you it was OK to take EA's work and claim it as your own?
Most of the responses you got danced around the issue. There were the legalistic arguments -- whether this infringes on EAs copyrights. (It does.). There are the policy arguments -- whether this will get you permanently banned. (It could, if EA notices). I just reframed you question more bluntly.
And you provided the answer in you response to me. This suggests you knew the answer all along. Perhaps you were hoping that someone would tell you that plagiarism was OK? Or perhaps you were just looking for attention?
The argument that "other people do it" is a non-sequitur. Other people do a lot of stuff they should not do. (For the students out there, here's an observation for you: once you graduate, no employer really cares what grades you got in a given class, or how you did on a particular test or paper. So why risk being expelled over something that does not matter?)
You have given you own answer. There is no reason to be offended because you do not like that answer.
No. You insulted me. You called me lazy and uncreative. I have every right to be offended, and you certainly don't have the right to tell me what I should and shouldn't feel.
You saw my post before. I had decided I didn't want to do the world because of the economic issues that would arise. This because of fact that most of the money spent on the world is for the world itself and not the objects that would be required to download it. For me to upload that, would cause EA to lose money. I came to this conclusion because of the arguments on this thread, So stop assuming that I already had the answer like I'm some 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
I never had a quandary with uploading a different version of an EA world. I would just call it 'Hidden Springs revised' so as to not mislead anyone into thinking it's my world design. Or is that not 'Creative' enough for you? I guess you're the high authority of what does and does not get to go on the exchange. For Christ's sake, It's an exchange, not an art gallery. We're exchanging content, that's the point. Do people who upload their versions of EA families in their original houses not follow your rules?
Go troll somewhere else.