Really? Life would be incredibly boring if you always knew another person's emotional state? Okay, before you speak on life, make certain you've actually experienced it. Because that statement had me laughing uproariously at you and I'm now having trouble taking you seriously.
I'm sorry, but at some point did I say or do something that warranted a personal attack? I thought that we were having a friendly debate about the emotional aspects of a video game and suddenly I'm a laughable idiot pre-teen who hasn't lived life? Yes, life would be boring if people walked around broadcasting their current emotional state and the reasons for it. Why would anyone talk to anyone? What would be the point of getting to know anyone?
Knowing another person's emotional state at all times doesn't make life boring or easy; all it does is let you know what that person is feeling. And knowing it at all times simply lets you know how little control you can actually have over another person's emotions. Because life isn't a video game, and despite your best efforts you cannot prevent another person, even one close to you, from getting angry or depressed frequently. Best you can do is try to help them cope, and even then sometimes you will get it wrong and only make them angrier or even more sad.
Seriously, put the video games down, go out, and date someone you connect closely with for awhile and you'll see what I mean.
Again with the personal attacks. You know, the sign of a weak argument (or a poor debater) is when the arguer resorts to insults. I will be sure to ask my husband if he minds whether I go out and date so that I can gain some of your valuable insight on life.
And I'm glad you have fun figuring out why sims act the way they do. But given what you said up above about life, it's pretty obvious you would need help at times. And for most people, that is not fun at all. They struggle enough with real emotions... a game where they have to figure it out is not what they're looking for (and, trust me, you never had to figure it out with Sims 2 unless you really, really, really sucked at playing that game; most average players figured it out very quickly).
The game's AI has always determined how you play. Don't fulfill needs properly? Sims dies. Don't skill in Sims 2? You don't advance at work. Don't make friends in Sims 2? You don't advance at work. Don't skill in Sims 3 or make friends with your coworkers? You don't advance at work. The AI has always been present and forcing you down certain paths on playing; all they're doing with Sims 4 is dropping the pretense of pretending it never acted that way. If that is an RPG to you, then this series has been an RPG series from the very start.
Emotions are not always animations. This time around, the emotions are based on a combination of items. The animations are just the outcome... the rest of the items contribute to the actual emotion, and there's a growing list of items figured out to be part of what contributes to emotions.
You, Tanya, are a very good example of why these discussion boards are a terrible place to spend time. Why would you need to make someone feel like s*** in order to make a point? I came here to talk about the things that I like/haven't liked about the Sims series and how to incorporate those ideas into TS4, not to be berated for not sharing your opinions. I am open to debate, but I am not into being insulted. Have a nice day, and please do enjoy bullying your way through life.
You obviously haven't been on these forums for very long. Tanya has a bad habit of being a little blunt in his arguments. Don't take it personally, he means well and he is only trying to get us to think more critically. Don't feel sad, okay.
You obviously haven't been on these forums for very long. Tanya has a bad habit of being a little blunt in his arguments. Don't take it personally, he means well and he is only trying to get us to think more critically. Don't feel sad, okay.
I have been a member and occasional poster on the forums since before TS3 was officially released. I don't take Tanya's arguments personally; I take his/her personal insults (implied or otherwise) personally.
Really? Life would be incredibly boring if you always knew another person's emotional state? Okay, before you speak on life, make certain you've actually experienced it. Because that statement had me laughing uproariously at you and I'm now having trouble taking you seriously.
I'm sorry, but at some point did I say or do something that warranted a personal attack? I thought that we were having a friendly debate about the emotional aspects of a video game and suddenly I'm a laughable idiot pre-teen who hasn't lived life? Yes, life would be boring if people walked around broadcasting their current emotional state and the reasons for it. Why would anyone talk to anyone? What would be the point of getting to know anyone?
Except humans do go around broadcasting our current emotional state and the reasons for it. Ever notice how animals can quickly pick up on what you're feeling and whether or not you're sick? That's because humans, as a species, broadcast it... loudly. If you're skilled enough in psychology and you're not letting being human cloud your thinking, you can actually pick up on the major points of a person's entire life story just by watching them carefully for a day.
Now, what are the reasons for getting to know another person? Those are the same as if you don't know their current emotional state. Humans do not connect with each other out of curiosity about each other's emotions; like all primates, humans connect for other reasons, ranging from social advantage to simple concern about the fact the other person is feeling down and wanting to cheer them up. Curiosity about why they're feeling that way is usually a sign of sociopathy, autism, or some other mental state that most humans consider a disorder.
And what I said wasn't a personal attack. I am incredibly blunt; if I'm going to insult you, I will outright insult you. I won't beat around the bush; if I am going to call you a liar, I will flat-out call you a liar. If I am going to accuse you of having your head shoved in a certain orifice, I will tell you to contact your proctologist about a head unshoving surgery.
Finally, you have only yourself to blame; you made the comments on life in general as part of an argument related to a video game and made your experience at it part of the argument. It was either rip into it and point out how ridiculous what you said was, or ignore it and not discuss your points. You left me in a position where, in order to continue the discussion, I had to rip into your experience in life; you really shouldn't be surprised that I chose to continue the discussion.
Knowing another person's emotional state at all times doesn't make life boring or easy; all it does is let you know what that person is feeling. And knowing it at all times simply lets you know how little control you can actually have over another person's emotions. Because life isn't a video game, and despite your best efforts you cannot prevent another person, even one close to you, from getting angry or depressed frequently. Best you can do is try to help them cope, and even then sometimes you will get it wrong and only make them angrier or even more sad.
Seriously, put the video games down, go out, and date someone you connect closely with for awhile and you'll see what I mean.
Again with the personal attacks. You know, the sign of a weak argument (or a poor debater) is when the arguer resorts to insults. I will be sure to ask my husband if he minds whether I go out and date so that I can gain some of your valuable insight on life.
That wasn't a personal attack. That was a piece of advice. And I am surprised you are married, yet do not know what your husband is feeling every moment you are around him.
And yet again you bring up your personal life in relation to something I said and leave it open to attack and in a position where attacking it is legitimate. Seriously, don't do that unless you have thick enough skin to deal with people ripping it to shreds.
And I'm glad you have fun figuring out why sims act the way they do. But given what you said up above about life, it's pretty obvious you would need help at times. And for most people, that is not fun at all. They struggle enough with real emotions... a game where they have to figure it out is not what they're looking for (and, trust me, you never had to figure it out with Sims 2 unless you really, really, really sucked at playing that game; most average players figured it out very quickly).
:shock:
Why the shock at a statement with a generalized "you" in it?
I do not think you in particular had any trouble figuring it out; that's why I have not bothered to explain it at any point in this thread. Why should I insult your intelligence by telling you what you already know?
The game's AI has always determined how you play. Don't fulfill needs properly? Sims dies. Don't skill in Sims 2? You don't advance at work. Don't make friends in Sims 2? You don't advance at work. Don't skill in Sims 3 or make friends with your coworkers? You don't advance at work. The AI has always been present and forcing you down certain paths on playing; all they're doing with Sims 4 is dropping the pretense of pretending it never acted that way. If that is an RPG to you, then this series has been an RPG series from the very start.
Emotions are not always animations. This time around, the emotions are based on a combination of items. The animations are just the outcome... the rest of the items contribute to the actual emotion, and there's a growing list of items figured out to be part of what contributes to emotions.
You, Tanya, are a very good example of why these discussion boards are a terrible place to spend time. Why would you need to make someone feel like s*** in order to make a point? I came here to talk about the things that I like/haven't liked about the Sims series and how to incorporate those ideas into TS4, not to be berated for not sharing your opinions. I am open to debate, but I am not into being insulted. Have a nice day, and please do enjoy bullying your way through life.
Why would someone be stupid enough to structure an argument in such a way that their experience in life becomes a legitimate target for ripping apart, and in fact has to be ripped into in order to properly discuss their points?
Have you noticed you don't see anything about my personal life in my posts? That's because I accept the rules of a debate. One of those is that anything entered into the debate is legitimate to rip into, and another one is that you keep your personal life out of the debate if you are too thin-skinned to see it ripped into. And these are not formal rules I am using; these are basic common sense.
And, seriously, you think I am trying to bully you on here? Please. If I were going to bully you, I wouldn't even post to you. Instead, I'd just get a few people I know together and we'd report every one of your posts until you got enough of them deleted the system auto-banned you.
Plus, you have let your emotions run away with you in your reply to me. Take a good, long look at what I said. Even in this reply, take a good look. Then answer these questions for yourself:
1) Was anything I said actually hostile in tone, or are you reading a hostile tone simply because of my blunt nature?
2) Did I, at any point, actually insult you?
3) Is outright stating someone is showing a lack of experience an insult, or is it a response to a ridiculous statement about life before explaining why that statement is ridiculous?
4) Was making that statement about knowing other people's emotions in life actually necessary, or was it a wasted statement by yourself that did not actually help your point?
5) Take a look at my description of knowing another's emotions all of the time, then take a look at your marriage. Does that sound a lot like the situation you have with your husband? Do you know what he's feeling every moment you're around him? I bet it sounds exactly like your marriage, and you know exactly what he's feeling.
6) Do you see anything in my posts that reflects my own life experience? Bet you won't find any; I generally keep it out.
7) Did you or did you not quickly figure out how to manipulate emotions in Sims 2? Before you answer, consider this... If you need to make your sims happy in Sims 2, can you do it with ease? Can you make them sad with ease? If so, you figured it out... just like everyone else. If not, sit down and play a game, but observe your own actions... you probably unconsciously know how to manipulate them and don't even realize it.
8. Did I say anything that doesn't come across as logical when read in a neutral tone?
9. When I said that bit about getting out and dating... Was I actually insulting you, or was I giving friendly advice?
10. After answering all of those, answer this: Did I actually insult you, or is the insult entirely from the hostile tone that you added?
Seriously, you have not been insulted. You made a ridiculous statement, I laughed at it, I explained why it was ridiculous, I gave some friendly advice, I moved on. The statement about you needing a bit of help? Think about that logically in light of what I've said... we all would need a bit of help.
Seriously, what is it with people and focusing on the negative aspects of my posts? I could make a comment liking nine ideas out of ten and the discussion would be over the one I didn't like and why.
To the person that stated they are o.k. with this new emotional state of affairs in TS4..well, of course it is going to run your game. :hunf:
It is no longer a mere reaction to what just happened..though I just looked a numberous pictures of my TS2 Sims and their thought bubbles..and nope I didn't need a text on the HUD to tell me they were still upset or even thinking about a fight..a person, or something they wanted me to do or get for them..
Their expressions even hours later along with a thought bubble told me hm..they are still wanting to go over and smack around so and so... :twisted:
Still thinking about the woohoo they had early that moring...still 'remembering'.
I liked it that way.
In the new game it is clear by what Grant and others have said the emotions system runs the game and yes, I have no doubt I will have to jump some hoops myself to manipulate the Sim into doing what I want them to do. No doubt at all.
That's o.k. to a point because we have been doing 'that' for years..but when it comes to affecting every little thing right down to the shoes they wear.. I think it might be a bit much. I just used shoes as an example.
I don't know..I didn't need the Hud to tell me my Sims were very pleased by a surprise engagement..or that they were very aware of which Sim just walked onto a community lot etc. The smarter Sim seems to live in TS2.
Besides the picture the OP posted..I like it that way..'I' get to make up what the old lady is feeling...that is the problem..being 'told'...when in TS1 and TS2..yes, it was merely a reaction..etc..but most of the time..somehow, like magic, those facial expressions fit right into what we were planning or playing at the time.
Ever think that? How did that Sim know to produce that facial reaction at a certain time..which seemed to fit right into how you saw the relationship, or the senario you were playing..'that' was the magic of TS2.
An old example I like to use: I made a Van Helsing in my game and had a really cool Dracula..but as soon as they saw each other it was over..they were fighting...and the looks on their faces in some pictures are priceless..and somehow just fit right into the story of a vampire hunter story...now had did that happen?..I don't know but it worked often like that in my game.
The only thing diffent was my Van Helsing didn't like vamps..so didn't many other Sims in my game..but none went after him like this Sim. :P
It was quite hilarious. Because I didn't do anything to make it happen.
I would play Dracula's castle and the vamp hunter would be standing outside..waiting...I sent Drac out one time..and they got into it again.
That is why TS2 is so special..the game took it's cues from the player not the other way around. How it figured out they should be enemies..when so many other Sims liked Dracula in my game..quite a lady's man...even if they did dislike vamps..is beyond me..
So, no, I don't see being 'told' how my Sim feels..is of any interest to me at all..when in TS2 I pretty much can see and know it. Even days later..
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
That is why TS2 is so special..the game took it's cues from the player not the other way around. How it figured out they should be enemies..when so many other Sims liked Dracula in my game..quite a lady's man...even if they did dislike vamps..is beyond me..
So, no, I don't see being 'told' how my Sim feels..is of any interest to me at all..when in TS2 I pretty much can see and know it. Even days later..
I'm going to reluctantly give my opinion.
I'm very happy with the emotions. In fact a few days before they announced the sims 4, I made a thread expressing how much I wanted emotions in the game.
I'm o.k. with moodlets. The thing with me about moodlets is that most of them are meaningless. All the moodlets ever do is effect the mood of the sim positively or negatively. Ex. if you are stung by a bee, you just get a moodlet... stung by a bee. So what? You don't see the sims with a band aid or you don't see them scratching themselves. It's meaningless. If they make them meaningful, then I'm all in for the moodlets. At this point though, we either have them and they just haven't told us, or we don't have them at all. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. But I'm thinking that emotions will be a more simplified, yet more meaningful version of moodlets.
Niac, I remember reading an official post, but I can't remember where it is at the time, that said there would be moodlets working "with" the emotions, that it would be a combination of these working in the Sims 4. I do agree that the moodlets in Sims 3 didn't play as much of a role as they should have, it was a pretty lame system the way they worked.
That is why TS2 is so special..the game took it's cues from the player not the other way around. How it figured out they should be enemies..when so many other Sims liked Dracula in my game..quite a lady's man...even if they did dislike vamps..is beyond me..
So, no, I don't see being 'told' how my Sim feels..is of any interest to me at all..when in TS2 I pretty much can see and know it. Even days later..
^This. Well said, Cinebar.
Agreed. I don't think what the OP was trying to say that "emotions" are inherently bad in the game, per-Se, but that watching the sims become emotional in the game is enough and it doesn't need to be shown in the UI as they are showing us will happen in Sims 4. We are not stupid when we play our games and we can see what's going on.
Also I have to agree with Cinebar that the emotions might be overdone, and that is based on what EA has done with previous games already. I have to have mods to tone things down because they have gone completely overboard on some aspects of the games.
I would say what my worry about Sims 4 is that they will be overdone. I know from personal experience that I'm not a drama lover and don't enjoy being around people who overreact to things. I can just imagine, for example, all of a sudden, in Sims 4, my sim has a negative reaction with another sim and goes into a depression state. This might be a sim that I want my sim to have a good relationship with but the game is forcing me to not be able to. I don't like that the game will be telling me what I can do with my sims and not the other way around. I am hoping, as Cinebar said, that there will be ways around this like we've had in the previous games. It would be nice if the little picture that tells us what mood our sims are feeling could be hidden for those who don't want to see it and CAN figure out what is going on with our sims without being TOLD.
What it appears is that EA is dumbing down the game, and for a middle aged adult that has had a lot of real life experience, that is frankly insulting.
I wonder if this would be true if this person disagreed with you and therefore ripped into your personal life (knowing absolutely nothing about it) and then blamed you for being confused and thinking that bluntness and meanness were two different things.
The cliques and fanboys on these forums are absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it bothers me when people are mean and rude for no reason other than that they feel brave and safe talking to someone on the other side of a computer screen.
Admiring a person who sticks to his guns and can coherently argue a point is one thing; to admire someone who wins arguments by dragging his opponent through the mud (subtly and just passive-aggressive enough to blame it on the victim) is sad.
Niac, I remember reading an official post, but I can't remember where it is at the time, that said there would be moodlets working "with" the emotions, that it would be a combination of these working in the Sims 4. I do agree that the moodlets in Sims 3 didn't play as much of a role as they should have, it was a pretty lame system the way they worked.
Agreed. I don't think what the OP was trying to say that "emotions" are inherently bad in the game, per-Se, but that watching the sims become emotional in the game is enough and it doesn't need to be shown in the UI as they are showing us will happen in Sims 4. We are not stupid when we play our games and we can see what's going on.
Also I have to agree with Cinebar that the emotions might be overdone, and that is based on what EA has done with previous games already. I have to have mods to tone things down because they have gone completely overboard on some aspects of the games.
I would say what my worry about Sims 4 is that they will be overdone. I know from personal experience that I'm not a drama lover and don't enjoy being around people who overreact to things. I can just imagine, for example, all of a sudden, in Sims 4, my sim has a negative reaction with another sim and goes into a depression state. This might be a sim that I want my sim to have a good relationship with but the game is forcing me to not be able to. I don't like that the game will be telling me what I can do with my sims and not the other way around. I am hoping, as Cinebar said, that there will be ways around this like we've had in the previous games. It would be nice if the little picture that tells us what mood our sims are feeling could be hidden for those who don't want to see it and CAN figure out what is going on with our sims without being TOLD.
What it appears is that EA is dumbing down the game, and for a middle aged adult that has had a lot of real life experience, that is frankly insulting.
I wonder if this would be true if this person disagreed with you and therefore ripped into your personal life (knowing absolutely nothing about it) and then blamed you for being confused and thinking that bluntness and meanness were two different things.
The cliques and fanboys on these forums are absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it bothers me when people are mean and rude for no reason other than that they feel brave and safe talking to someone on the other side of a computer screen.
Admiring a person who sticks to his guns and can coherently argue a point is one thing; to admire someone who wins arguments by dragging his opponent through the mud (subtly and just passive-aggressive enough to blame it on the victim) is sad.
As opposed to to a person who passively-aggressively attacks that other person and does not call the other person on it?
*shaking my head*
You think I'm in the wrong? Call me on it. I gave you a couple items in my previous post to you to call me on and evidence to use on purpose. So you could call me on something, be right, and I could apologize and we could move on. Because, for some reason, you seem to need that. So, I figured I would give you the opportunity to get it and see that I am not unreasonable and will admit when I'm in the wrong.
Instead, you ignored it and you talk about me passively-aggressively rather than act like a mature adult and confront me directly. Especially when I'm sitting here, waiting on it and this time you have some actual evidence to back up what you say.
Has it ever occurred to you that I find it irritating when people bring in their life experience to what has been a nice discussion? Because at that point, to counter it, I do have to rip into their life experience... it's no longer a nice discussion because they brought in their life stuff and made it personal. And, no, it's not just you... I have seen it time and again on here, with not just me being the other person, and the discussion always turns nasty because the person who brought in their life experience ends up feeling insulted or ends up claiming the other person didn't fully address what they had to say.
So, yes, I ripped into it. I did it in the most blunt way I could... and all I ask is you think before you bring it in another discussion. All I ask is you take the time to make certain it is actually necessary and you are prepared just in case the other person rips into it.
I, personally, can't handle it with a lot of my life stuff... that's why you never see me bring it in, and why the one discussion I brought in life stuff I couldn't handle being ripped into left me a sobbing wreck who eventually deleted the posts and tried to avoid talking to that other person. That other person eventually talked some sense into me, just as I talked some sense into them, and at current we have a civility towards each other. I do not blame them for my failing in that conversation... I made the decision to react with a personal life, I made the decision to bring it in, and I suffered the consequences. I take responsibility for my actions on that thread, and I accept it was my fault I ended up feeling like crap in the end. So I am not holding you to some double-standard.
And, yes, I have ripped into Niac before. But he states his opinion, and marks it as such... his post is one I cannot touch.
Finally, you think I am any different in real life? The same persona I use on here, I use out in the real world. Some of the people I deal with on a regular basis are extremely combative and will run roughshod over you if you are not as combative as they are, so I have to be combative every single day of my life just to deal with these people. In general, what you see on here is a much nicer version of who I have to be in person... because I am behind a computer screen, so I feel safe in being nicer to people. In person, I'm a lot nastier.
Yet, strangely, those who know me offline and see me without the persona comment I'm one of the nicest people they know.
Yeah, my life sucks and I might be what you consider a loser. So what? You commented that I don't know your real life... but I bet I was utterly right about your marriage. I bet if you looked at your husband right now, you would know exactly what he's feeling... because in your time with him, you've learned how to read him. And I bet it bothers you on some level that I am right. That all I needed was the information that you're married to be able to instantly know details about your marriage... details you didn't think anyone else could know. It tends to bother people a lot when I do that.
So, tell me, do you think my life excuses how I act? Do you think the fact I spend every day arguing with or being nasty to people in person because I need to be excuses how I am on here? I don't. Just as I don't think your real life had anything to do with this discussion and did not enjoy you bringing in your real-life experience to make a comment on life. Just as I do not think it excuses your actions now. We are who we choose to be... I, of all people, know how true that is, given how easy it is for me to become someone else. I chose what I feel serves me best on here. And in Sims 4, I will wear a different mask and use a different persona... because that's what I do, and because the past few years have left me not wanting to wear this persona anymore.
As opposed to to a person who passively-aggressively attacks that other person and does not call the other person on it?
*shaking my head*
You think I'm in the wrong? Call me on it. I gave you a couple items in my previous post to you to call me on and evidence to use on purpose. So you could call me on something, be right, and I could apologize and we could move on. Because, for some reason, you seem to need that. So, I figured I would give you the opportunity to get it and see that I am not unreasonable and will admit when I'm in the wrong.
Instead, you ignored it and you talk about me passively-aggressively rather than act like a mature adult and confront me directly. Especially when I'm sitting here, waiting on it and this time you have some actual evidence to back up what you say.
Has it ever occurred to you that I find it irritating when people bring in their life experience to what has been a nice discussion? Because at that point, to counter it, I do have to rip into their life experience... it's no longer a nice discussion because they brought in their life stuff and made it personal. And, no, it's not just you... I have seen it time and again on here, with not just me being the other person, and the discussion always turns nasty because the person who brought in their life experience ends up feeling insulted or ends up claiming the other person didn't fully address what they had to say.
So, yes, I ripped into it. I did it in the most blunt way I could... and all I ask is you think before you bring it in another discussion. All I ask is you take the time to make certain it is actually necessary and you are prepared just in case the other person rips into it.
I, personally, can't handle it with a lot of my life stuff... that's why you never see me bring it in, and why the one discussion I brought in life stuff I couldn't handle being ripped into left me a sobbing wreck who eventually deleted the posts and tried to avoid talking to that other person. That other person eventually talked some sense into me, just as I talked some sense into them, and at current we have a civility towards each other. I do not blame them for my failing in that conversation... I made the decision to react with a personal life, I made the decision to bring it in, and I suffered the consequences. I take responsibility for my actions on that thread, and I accept it was my fault I ended up feeling like crap in the end. So I am not holding you to some double-standard.
And, yes, I have ripped into Niac before. But he states his opinion, and marks it as such... his post is one I cannot touch.
Finally, you think I am any different in real life? The same persona I use on here, I use out in the real world. Some of the people I deal with on a regular basis are extremely combative and will run roughshod over you if you are not as combative as they are, so I have to be combative every single day of my life just to deal with these people. In general, what you see on here is a much nicer version of who I have to be in person... because I am behind a computer screen, so I feel safe in being nicer to people. In person, I'm a lot nastier.
Yet, strangely, those who know me offline and see me without the persona comment I'm one of the nicest people they know.
Yeah, my life sucks and I might be what you consider a loser. So what? You commented that I don't know your real life... but I bet I was utterly right about your marriage. I bet if you looked at your husband right now, you would know exactly what he's feeling... because in your time with him, you've learned how to read him. And I bet it bothers you on some level that I am right. That all I needed was the information that you're married to be able to instantly know details about your marriage... details you didn't think anyone else could know. It tends to bother people a lot when I do that.
So, tell me, do you think my life excuses how I act? Do you think the fact I spend every day arguing with or being nasty to people in person because I need to be excuses how I am on here? I don't. Just as I don't think your real life had anything to do with this discussion and did not enjoy you bringing in your real-life experience to make a comment on life. Just as I do not think it excuses your actions now. We are who we choose to be... I, of all people, know how true that is, given how easy it is for me to become someone else. I chose what I feel serves me best on here. And in Sims 4, I will wear a different mask and use a different persona... because that's what I do, and because the past few years have left me not wanting to wear this persona anymore.
Tanya, I am sorry that you have to deal with awful people on a daily basis and that being nasty is the only way that you know how to deal with them.
The comment that you seem to think was about my personal life was "life would be incredibly boring if we always knew how everyone felt all the time". This was a comment on life in general, not on my life. From this, you made many assumptions regarding who I am and you made my personal life part of the argument. I was dumbfounded then and I am dumbfounded now.
Here are the assumptions that you made about me (or the implications, if you rather)
-I have no life nor have I lived
-I play video games too much
-I am alone
-I am autistic or sociopathic?
Now, you can tell me or yourself that these were all generalizations and not directed at me, but we both know that they were attacks that were intended to get a rise. It worked. I have been scratching my head since Friday trying to figure out how I offended you such that you would need to react in that fashion.
I didn't call you out for anything until you forced me to do so. We were debating, not having a "yo mama's so fat" joke-off. And once I took your bait you responded by telling me that it was my fault that you were being nasty. That somehow I had "brought it on myself", at which point I realized that it was pointless to argue with you. And then here comes a "follower" to say how awesome you are because you are rude and mean. I mean blunt. Whatever you want to call it.
Yes, you are clearly a prominent member of the community (12k posts, wow!) and therefore you are not to be trifled with. And heaven forbid someone else put their neck out on the chopping block and let you know how very abrasive and insulting you are because if they do, they'll surely be next.
I am done arguing with you about why I deserve to be bullied. That is not what this post was meant to be about, and I find you to be completely unreasonable and, quite frankly, oblivious to your own behavior patterns. Respond or don't, but I am done with you. I see no good that can come from further interaction with you.
4. Figure out a sim-memory system that works
The memory system in TS2 was flawed but efficient. The memory system in TS3 is ridiculous. Does my sim really need to remember every single woohoo they have ever had. Does my sim really need to remember every party invitation they've received? I don't think so. Additionally, referring back to #3, I will look at the memories when I feel like it, so quit with the pop-ups telling me every time that a memory is formed, please.
This is the *only* part of the post that I'll bother to reply to, and no, I didn't really bother to read the rest...again, just the same old, same old, some player trying to tell the Sims 4 team how to make the game according to *their* preference.
However, in regards to the memory system (which, by the way, didn't even come with the base game...it was added in an expansion pack because the fans demanded it)...the Sims Team also gave us the option to disable memories and x out of the notifications...in other words, we can opt out of the whole memory thing *if we want to*...so, if you're seeing a lot of pop-ups, whose fault is that? Yours, not EA's. They gave you a way out, not our problem if you choose not to use it. And, by the way, there's been no mention of any kind of memory system in The Sims 4. How much you want to bet they not only don't include it, but that there will be endless petitions demanding it back, so the game can be more like The Sims 2? That's how it got added to The Sims 3, you know.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
4. Figure out a sim-memory system that works
The memory system in TS2 was flawed but efficient. The memory system in TS3 is ridiculous. Does my sim really need to remember every single woohoo they have ever had. Does my sim really need to remember every party invitation they've received? I don't think so. Additionally, referring back to #3, I will look at the memories when I feel like it, so quit with the pop-ups telling me every time that a memory is formed, please.
This is the *only* part of the post that I'll bother to reply to, and no, I didn't really bother to read the rest...again, just the same old, same old, some player trying to tell the Sims 4 team how to make the game according to *their* preference.
However, in regards to the memory system (which, by the way, didn't even come with the base game...it was added in an expansion pack because the fans demanded it)...the Sims Team also gave us the option to disable memories and x out of the notifications...in other words, we can opt out of the whole memory thing *if we want to*...so, if you're seeing a lot of pop-ups, whose fault is that? Yours, not EA's. They gave you a way out, not our problem if you choose not to use it. And, by the way, there's been no mention of any kind of memory system in The Sims 4. How much you want to bet they not only don't include it, but that there will be endless petitions demanding it back, so the game can be more like The Sims 2? That's how it got added to The Sims 3, you know.
Yes, we players of TS2 are relentless in our demands for every subsequent Sims game to be an exact replica of TS2, aren't we? I don't mind the petitions. I don't read them unless the petition sounds like something I care about.
I like that my Sims have memories, I just want them to be more manageable and realistic. I would rather have memories that mean something than have to either a)go through the memories every few plays and delete the ones that are meaningless ("Tom just ate toast for the first time!") or b)not have any at all.
As for the pop-ups, I did not realize that that was an option. Thanks, I am really happy to know that I can get rid of them!
Yes, we players of TS2 are relentless in our demands for every subsequent Sims game to be an exact replica of TS2, aren't we? I don't mind the petitions. I don't read them unless the petition sounds like something I care about.
I like that my Sims have memories, I just want them to be more manageable and realistic. I would rather have memories that mean something than have to either a)go through the memories every few plays and delete the ones that are meaningless ("Tom just ate toast for the first time!") or b)not have any at all.
As for the pop-ups, I did not realize that that was an option. Thanks, I am really happy to know that I can get rid of them!
Sarcasm aside, a lot of what I've seen on here is a demand that TS4 use the same type of gameplay as The Sims 2, including having to buy clothing and some open venues, thoug we *may* or may not have an open world....and there will be howls of outrage if we don't have an open world, even though *not* having it will probably make the game run better.
As for disabling the memories, if I'm not mistaken, that comes under the Option menu...look under the Game Options icon. I think you'll find the option there.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
I am done arguing with you about why I deserve to be bullied.
How may I put it...
Someone insulting you, is not bullying. Someone saying your ideas are bad, is not bullying. Someone criticizing you in a blunt manner, is not bullying. Someone pointing out faults and flaws in your appearance, lifestyle, or mannerisms is not bullying.
Bullying is bullying.
Don't cry bullying just because you brought yourself into the argument and basically forced the issue.
Tanya, I am sorry that you have to deal with awful people on a daily basis and that being nasty is the only way that you know how to deal with them.
The comment that you seem to think was about my personal life was "life would be incredibly boring if we always knew how everyone felt all the time". This was a comment on life in general, not on my life. From this, you made many assumptions regarding who I am and you made my personal life part of the argument. I was dumbfounded then and I am dumbfounded now.
Here are the assumptions that you made about me (or the implications, if you rather)
-I have no life nor have I lived
-I play video games too much
-I am alone
-I am autistic or sociopathic?
Now, you can tell me or yourself that these were all generalizations and not directed at me, but we both know that they were attacks that were intended to get a rise. It worked. I have been scratching my head since Friday trying to figure out how I offended you such that you would need to react in that fashion.
I didn't call you out for anything until you forced me to do so. We were debating, not having a "yo mama's so fat" joke-off. And once I took your bait you responded by telling me that it was my fault that you were being nasty. That somehow I had "brought it on myself", at which point I realized that it was pointless to argue with you. And then here comes a "follower" to say how awesome you are because you are rude and mean. I mean blunt. Whatever you want to call it.
Yes, you are clearly a prominent member of the community (12k posts, wow!) and therefore you are not to be trifled with. And heaven forbid someone else put their neck out on the chopping block and let you know how very abrasive and insulting you are because if they do, they'll surely be next.
I am done arguing with you about why I deserve to be bullied. That is not what this post was meant to be about, and I find you to be completely unreasonable and, quite frankly, oblivious to your own behavior patterns. Respond or don't, but I am done with you. I see no good that can come from further interaction with you.
It is not the only way I know how to deal with them. It is the way I have found most effective in dealing with them. Some people you must simply be nasty back to; they do not understand anything else.
Comments on life in general are reflections of personal life. They reflect your experiences up to this point, how you view things, and what you have experienced. They reflect who you are. Even my reply is such; it reflects the fact I have actually experienced what it is like to know another feelings and paid attention to the fact I knew it. The difference between us is, I can stand my life experiences being ripped into; that is why I can use them. And one cannot address, properly, a comment on life in general without addressing the experience that led up to that comment.
Also, where did I actually say you have no life? Where did I say you play video games too much? Where did I say you are alone? Where did I say you are autistic or sociopathic? I use a lot of generalized statements in my comments, but none of those are items I claimed or even implied about you.
Telling someone they are inexperienced in an area does not say they have no life; everyone is inexperienced in some area. Telling someone to put down the video games... this is a video game forum, and you wouldn't be here unless you played them at least in part, so advising you to put them down for awhile is just telling you to get away from them and focus elsewhere for a bit (and it was presented as advice on top of that). Saying to find someone you actually connect with is not saying you're alone; in fact, it kinda implies the opposite, in that it implies you are with someone but you do not have a strong connection with them. And pointing out the autism or sociopathy was intended to point out that anyone can experience what it is like to know the feelings of another at all times unless they are one of those two; it merely requires finding the right person.
And the fact you "know" these were attacks to get a rise reflects on your worldview; if I wanted to get a rise out of you, I know a lot more effective methods of doing so. Like accusing you of having your head crammed in a certain orifice; that always gets a rise out of people. I could have easily slipped that one in, and some people would tell me that the accusation would not be inaccurate (I know because one has already told me this through email).
This isn't offended. People have seen offended. People on here have also learned that when you offend me, the kid gloves I've been treating you with vanish.
12k posts mean nothing. Neither does the people coming in and telling you that you're not experiencing bullying. All 12k posts means is I have too much time on my hands. All those other people coming in to tell you about me does is let you know I'm a bit known and that people know my style. And take a look at what I have said... I am asking you to think more critically about what you say in support of an idea. Not asking you not to argue your idea. Nor am I asking you to consider me anything less than a nasty person... just to think more carefully about what I have said instead of assuming that everything I say must be directed or about you when replying to you. And, yes, you've been assuming a lot... and we all know what "assume" makes out of people.
And you still think this is bullying you... do you need someone to show you what bullying on here is really like? Do you need to actually experience it to know the difference? Because I know people who would gladly demonstrate the difference for you... and then leave you understanding that just because I'm rough and abrasive doesn't mean I'm bullying you. After all, a bully wouldn't conclude you have a strong marriage with your husband and connect to him... instead, they would state you are a terrible wife who doesn't love him and probably only married him for his money.
Grow a thicker skin and learn what bullying is. Because your victim complex in this discussion is very attractive to real bullies looking for a victim; after all, you just loudly advertised that you're an easy target.
Grow a thicker skin and learn what bullying is. Because your victim complex in this discussion is very attractive to real bullies looking for a victim; after all, you just loudly advertised that you're an easy target
I personally think this is a case of the "Wounded Zebra".
Or rather... "Whoever is the victim is the one who is right."
I wonder if this would be true if this person disagreed with you and therefore ripped into your personal life (knowing absolutely nothing about it) and then blamed you for being confused and thinking that bluntness and meanness were two different things.
The cliques and fanboys on these forums are absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it bothers me when people are mean and rude for no reason other than that they feel brave and safe talking to someone on the other side of a computer screen.
Admiring a person who sticks to his guns and can coherently argue a point is one thing; to admire someone who wins arguments by dragging his opponent through the mud (subtly and just passive-aggressive enough to blame it on the victim) is sad.
*slaps forehead* I can't tell you how many times I've been the person being dragged into the mud by Tanya, and there have only been a couple times where I come back from it with the same opinions as I had before. I've learned my lessons... you obviously haven't.
So, in other words, you don't want the series to continue?
If they scrap it being emotion-based, they have to redo the engine. Problem: This game will have had five years development in next year, and the max development time before you will never even make back your investment is eight years. Sims 4 would become vaporware under your idea. It would never be released and the series would end with the ITF expansion.
I think that having emotions in the game is a great idea, but having the entire point of the game tied into emotions (which I fear will be as shallow as the moodlets and traits in TS3) will really limit the game. The videos that we have been shown makes it seem as if we will be told what emotion the sim has at any given time.....and I think that this really dumbs down the gameplay. Do we really need to be told what our sim is feeling if we can just see it?
It will limit the game... but there's no way of doing complex emotions without making them the entire point of the game.
I'm sorry. You are exxagerating. The Suims in the Sims 2 were more emotional than The Sims in The Sims 3 and the game wasn't all about that. Ten years later it's pretty reasonable they could tweak and refine that, while not making it overtake the entire gameplay. Even because most of the emotional features presented so far are quite shallow, based on objets, and we could do without those.
You know, your line of thought isn't good for this industry. Take Pixar, for example. Then they did Monsters INC, there was no way to render fur like they did. So they just came up with a brand new way. They've faced similar challenges in most of their films and tacked them. Even The sims 2 had some creative solutions dealing with season back in The Sims 2, where they made snow and rain in a way that wasn't too taxing on the machines we had back then using creative solutions.
All the time we see people in computing industry break molds. Whenever something doesn't seem possible, they change the paradigm, think outside the box and make it work.
So, in other words, you don't want the series to continue?
If they scrap it being emotion-based, they have to redo the engine. Problem: This game will have had five years development in next year, and the max development time before you will never even make back your investment is eight years. Sims 4 would become vaporware under your idea. It would never be released and the series would end with the ITF expansion.
I think that having emotions in the game is a great idea, but having the entire point of the game tied into emotions (which I fear will be as shallow as the moodlets and traits in TS3) will really limit the game. The videos that we have been shown makes it seem as if we will be told what emotion the sim has at any given time.....and I think that this really dumbs down the gameplay. Do we really need to be told what our sim is feeling if we can just see it?
It will limit the game... but there's no way of doing complex emotions without making them the entire point of the game.
I'm sorry. You are exxagerating. The Suims in the Sims 2 were more emotional than The Sims in The Sims 3 and the game wasn't all about that. Ten years later it's pretty reasonable they could tweak and refine that, while not making it overtake the entire gameplay. Even because most of the emotional features presented so far are quite shallow, based on objets, and we could do without those.
You know, your line of thought isn't good for this industry. Take Pixar, for example. Then they did Monsters INC, there was no way to render fur like they did. So they just came up with a brand new way. They've faced similar challenges in most of their films and tacked them. Even The sims 2 had some creative solutions dealing with season back in The Sims 2, where they made snow and rain in a way that wasn't too taxing on the machines we had back then using creative solutions.
All the time we see people in computing industry break molds. Whenever something doesn't seem possible, they change the paradigm, think outside the box and make it work.
I'm not arguing the system is not shallow; it's a computer game. It's easier to just fake the emotions, as they did in Sims 2, and get more depth than try a true emotions engine, as they are with Sims 4. That's why Sims 2 has a bit of an advantage; since they weren't programming actual emotions in the first place, they had a lot more room for the animations to fake it. That's also why video game makers don't try to create emotion engines; they generally get farther by just faking it, using tricks and slight of hand to fill in any empty spots, and letting the players enjoy the show.
Basically, what they're doing with Sims 4 is trying coding like you would see in a true AI. Rather than simply go with animations with a couple of simple triggers, they're trying a complex trigger system like you would see in an actual person to try to create real emotions. You've already stated several of the disadvantages of doing this. However, at the same time, this is still something entirely new; no other video game maker on the planet uses an emotions engine and I know of no attempts to make one before now.
So, in a way, the Sims 4 engine is an attempt at pulling something similar to what Pixar did with fur. If they succeed... they will blow anything we have seen in any other video game, as far as emotions, out of the water and make every other attempt at simulating emotions look like it was done by rank amateurs.
But that doesn't mean that there are not problems. All of the problems I cited with having to tell people what they're feeling? That's not game-side; that's a problem real people have with interpreting the emotions of others. That's why the Sims series has always used over-exaggerated emotions and a lot of games either over-exaggerate them or have you up close to where you can observe them (or, in cases where neither is an option, pretty much flat-out tell you what the emotion is). So, the adding of flat-out telling you what the emotion is isn't for the simulation side, but to make things easier on players by eliminating and chance of uncertainty.
It's like how the monsters in Monsters, Inc. inform you outright that they need screams for power.
It's like how the monsters in Monsters, Inc. inform you outright that they need screams for power.
And yet, by the end of the movie, they understand that laughter is much more powerful...
I really don't think sims in TS4 will have AI emotions at all. They'll just have a revamped moodlets system, limiting and unlocking actions per emotional state, and more animations, some that working combined with other animations.
I don't need my Sim to react to painting r colors. I surely don't do that. Let's have emotions, surely. Let's base them on relationships though. I care more how family, lovers, co-workers and enemies affect me, not the color green or a 60's styled rocket painting.
I fear they might overdo emotions and it will be TS3 all over again. So much focus on worlds that many other features got put aside.
It's like how the monsters in Monsters, Inc. inform you outright that they need screams for power.
And yet, by the end of the movie, they understand that laughter is much more powerful...
I really don't think sims in TS4 will have AI emotions at all. They'll just have a revamped moodlets system, limiting and unlocking actions per emotional state, and more animations, some that working combined with other animations.
I don't need my Sim to react to painting r colors. I surely don't do that. Let's have emotions, surely. Let's base them on relationships though. I care more how family, lovers, co-workers and enemies affect me, not the color green or a 60's styled rocket painting.
I fear they might overdo emotions and it will be TS3 all over again. So much focus on worlds that many other features got put aside.
And that's if they fail to achieve to what they set out to do. Which is also my fear. If it becomes all about emotions and emotions are badly done... then what's the point? Sims 3 isn't running half-badly on my computer and with it I will soon have nearly everything I want.
So, in the potential for this game to utterly suck, we agree. I see potential for it to be good. Thus, I'm waiting for more information before making a final decision.
Options! I think a way to make it better than the previous Sims would be options. Well... probably not "better" in everyone's eyes, but one thing I think we can all agree on is that we simmers have different preferences, styles, and play methods.
If at all possible, I think there should be advanced options and modes where we can set the amount of sims per town, (using Sims 3 as an example) an option to cut off or on the attraction system system or (still using Sims 3 as an example) cut on and off CASt. Mode wise (and still using Sims 3 as an example, lol) with the world editor we have in game where we can add and bulldoze lots give us an option or a way to add addresses, add roads, edit terrain... things like that.
I mean CASt isn't in Sims 4 and we may not be able to edit the towns or any of that but I'm trying to give an example of what I'm talking about. Just more options to give us a bit more control without mods if possible. As long as it doesn't affect the game in a negative way or anything.
I am wondering about the answer to this question. I believe the fans have the last word and if they like a game they are going to buy it. There are a lot of players that are moving back to play previous games of the saga. I am not sure if this means that the game is not as popular as previous versions.
So, in other words, you don't want the series to continue?
If they scrap it being emotion-based, they have to redo the engine. Problem: This game will have had five years development in next year, and the max development time before you will never even make back your investment is eight years. Sims 4 would become vaporware under your idea. It would never be released and the series would end with the ITF expansion.
I think that having emotions in the game is a great idea, but having the entire point of the game tied into emotions (which I fear will be as shallow as the moodlets and traits in TS3) will really limit the game. The videos that we have been shown makes it seem as if we will be told what emotion the sim has at any given time.....and I think that this really dumbs down the gameplay. Do we really need to be told what our sim is feeling if we can just see it?
It will limit the game... but there's no way of doing complex emotions without making them the entire point of the game. Computers are not as advanced as people think they are; if you're going to do a video game with complex emotions, you're either going to be using massive amounts of slight of hand (which works in single player games where you play one character), or you're going to program the entire thing around emotions; there's no other options, as all other options require replicating the human brain to the point you would spawn true AI and we currently do not have the technology to do that on purpose yet.
So it's either emotions in the game and the game focuses on them, or no actual emotions with this game series. There's no middle ground. And despite what people say, not even Sims 2 actually had emotions, but it just used a lot of slight of hand and hoped people wouldn't notice (and most didn't).
As for being told what emotions a sim has... this is actually necessary if they got anywhere close to replicating actual emotions. There are 182 different emotional states in normal humans that cause tears, and they cover everything from sadness to happiness to rage. As a species, humans tend to cry a lot, and yet for some reason humans always associate tears in video games with sadness. So if your sim is crying because they're happy, you're not going to know it unless you have a little box that says happy. And people also associate smiling with happiness in video games, despite the fact that most of the reasons why humans smile have nothing to do with being happy.
So, really, if they are going to actually do emotions and do them well, they will need a box to tell you what the emotion is simply because the normal associations with each action don't match up to emotional reality and would cause you to draw the seriously wrong conclusions as to what your sim is feeling. Because, let's face it, humans suck at reading each other well and find reading a fictional character existing inside a computer program nearly impossible.
So you say computer are not that advance. Go fetch me 16 Kilobytes of ram. Next fetch me 32 megabytes of ram. Thirdly fetch me 8 Gigabytes of ram. Come on. We gone a long way since Commodore 64 computers. Today computers can multi-task. A big fact Amiga could multi-task in real time. Heck my mom programmed on punch cards. A lot of things have changed. We no longer use floppy drives. Hard drive storage has gone up.
CPU cores have gone up. We gone from 1 megahertz CPU to Gigahertz CPU. We gone from Single core CPU to Quad-core and up CPU. Disprove all my facts if you can.
Comments
You obviously haven't been on these forums for very long. Tanya has a bad habit of being a little blunt in his arguments. Don't take it personally, he means well and he is only trying to get us to think more critically. Don't feel sad, okay.
I have been a member and occasional poster on the forums since before TS3 was officially released. I don't take Tanya's arguments personally; I take his/her personal insults (implied or otherwise) personally.
Except humans do go around broadcasting our current emotional state and the reasons for it. Ever notice how animals can quickly pick up on what you're feeling and whether or not you're sick? That's because humans, as a species, broadcast it... loudly. If you're skilled enough in psychology and you're not letting being human cloud your thinking, you can actually pick up on the major points of a person's entire life story just by watching them carefully for a day.
Now, what are the reasons for getting to know another person? Those are the same as if you don't know their current emotional state. Humans do not connect with each other out of curiosity about each other's emotions; like all primates, humans connect for other reasons, ranging from social advantage to simple concern about the fact the other person is feeling down and wanting to cheer them up. Curiosity about why they're feeling that way is usually a sign of sociopathy, autism, or some other mental state that most humans consider a disorder.
And what I said wasn't a personal attack. I am incredibly blunt; if I'm going to insult you, I will outright insult you. I won't beat around the bush; if I am going to call you a liar, I will flat-out call you a liar. If I am going to accuse you of having your head shoved in a certain orifice, I will tell you to contact your proctologist about a head unshoving surgery.
Finally, you have only yourself to blame; you made the comments on life in general as part of an argument related to a video game and made your experience at it part of the argument. It was either rip into it and point out how ridiculous what you said was, or ignore it and not discuss your points. You left me in a position where, in order to continue the discussion, I had to rip into your experience in life; you really shouldn't be surprised that I chose to continue the discussion.
That wasn't a personal attack. That was a piece of advice. And I am surprised you are married, yet do not know what your husband is feeling every moment you are around him.
And yet again you bring up your personal life in relation to something I said and leave it open to attack and in a position where attacking it is legitimate. Seriously, don't do that unless you have thick enough skin to deal with people ripping it to shreds.
Why the shock at a statement with a generalized "you" in it?
I do not think you in particular had any trouble figuring it out; that's why I have not bothered to explain it at any point in this thread. Why should I insult your intelligence by telling you what you already know?
Why would someone be stupid enough to structure an argument in such a way that their experience in life becomes a legitimate target for ripping apart, and in fact has to be ripped into in order to properly discuss their points?
Have you noticed you don't see anything about my personal life in my posts? That's because I accept the rules of a debate. One of those is that anything entered into the debate is legitimate to rip into, and another one is that you keep your personal life out of the debate if you are too thin-skinned to see it ripped into. And these are not formal rules I am using; these are basic common sense.
And, seriously, you think I am trying to bully you on here? Please. If I were going to bully you, I wouldn't even post to you. Instead, I'd just get a few people I know together and we'd report every one of your posts until you got enough of them deleted the system auto-banned you.
Plus, you have let your emotions run away with you in your reply to me. Take a good, long look at what I said. Even in this reply, take a good look. Then answer these questions for yourself:
1) Was anything I said actually hostile in tone, or are you reading a hostile tone simply because of my blunt nature?
2) Did I, at any point, actually insult you?
3) Is outright stating someone is showing a lack of experience an insult, or is it a response to a ridiculous statement about life before explaining why that statement is ridiculous?
4) Was making that statement about knowing other people's emotions in life actually necessary, or was it a wasted statement by yourself that did not actually help your point?
5) Take a look at my description of knowing another's emotions all of the time, then take a look at your marriage. Does that sound a lot like the situation you have with your husband? Do you know what he's feeling every moment you're around him? I bet it sounds exactly like your marriage, and you know exactly what he's feeling.
6) Do you see anything in my posts that reflects my own life experience? Bet you won't find any; I generally keep it out.
7) Did you or did you not quickly figure out how to manipulate emotions in Sims 2? Before you answer, consider this... If you need to make your sims happy in Sims 2, can you do it with ease? Can you make them sad with ease? If so, you figured it out... just like everyone else. If not, sit down and play a game, but observe your own actions... you probably unconsciously know how to manipulate them and don't even realize it.
8. Did I say anything that doesn't come across as logical when read in a neutral tone?
9. When I said that bit about getting out and dating... Was I actually insulting you, or was I giving friendly advice?
10. After answering all of those, answer this: Did I actually insult you, or is the insult entirely from the hostile tone that you added?
Seriously, you have not been insulted. You made a ridiculous statement, I laughed at it, I explained why it was ridiculous, I gave some friendly advice, I moved on. The statement about you needing a bit of help? Think about that logically in light of what I've said... we all would need a bit of help.
Seriously, what is it with people and focusing on the negative aspects of my posts? I could make a comment liking nine ideas out of ten and the discussion would be over the one I didn't like and why.
It is no longer a mere reaction to what just happened..though I just looked a numberous pictures of my TS2 Sims and their thought bubbles..and nope I didn't need a text on the HUD to tell me they were still upset or even thinking about a fight..a person, or something they wanted me to do or get for them..
Their expressions even hours later along with a thought bubble told me hm..they are still wanting to go over and smack around so and so... :twisted:
Still thinking about the woohoo they had early that moring...still 'remembering'.
I liked it that way.
In the new game it is clear by what Grant and others have said the emotions system runs the game and yes, I have no doubt I will have to jump some hoops myself to manipulate the Sim into doing what I want them to do. No doubt at all.
That's o.k. to a point because we have been doing 'that' for years..but when it comes to affecting every little thing right down to the shoes they wear.. I think it might be a bit much. I just used shoes as an example.
I don't know..I didn't need the Hud to tell me my Sims were very pleased by a surprise engagement..or that they were very aware of which Sim just walked onto a community lot etc. The smarter Sim seems to live in TS2.
Besides the picture the OP posted..I like it that way..'I' get to make up what the old lady is feeling...that is the problem..being 'told'...when in TS1 and TS2..yes, it was merely a reaction..etc..but most of the time..somehow, like magic, those facial expressions fit right into what we were planning or playing at the time.
Ever think that? How did that Sim know to produce that facial reaction at a certain time..which seemed to fit right into how you saw the relationship, or the senario you were playing..'that' was the magic of TS2.
An old example I like to use: I made a Van Helsing in my game and had a really cool Dracula..but as soon as they saw each other it was over..they were fighting...and the looks on their faces in some pictures are priceless..and somehow just fit right into the story of a vampire hunter story...now had did that happen?..I don't know but it worked often like that in my game.
The only thing diffent was my Van Helsing didn't like vamps..so didn't many other Sims in my game..but none went after him like this Sim. :P
It was quite hilarious. Because I didn't do anything to make it happen.
I would play Dracula's castle and the vamp hunter would be standing outside..waiting...I sent Drac out one time..and they got into it again.
That is why TS2 is so special..the game took it's cues from the player not the other way around. How it figured out they should be enemies..when so many other Sims liked Dracula in my game..quite a lady's man...even if they did dislike vamps..is beyond me..
So, no, I don't see being 'told' how my Sim feels..is of any interest to me at all..when in TS2 I pretty much can see and know it. Even days later..
^This. Well said, Cinebar.
I'm going to reluctantly give my opinion.
I'm very happy with the emotions. In fact a few days before they announced the sims 4, I made a thread expressing how much I wanted emotions in the game.
I'm o.k. with moodlets. The thing with me about moodlets is that most of them are meaningless. All the moodlets ever do is effect the mood of the sim positively or negatively. Ex. if you are stung by a bee, you just get a moodlet... stung by a bee. So what? You don't see the sims with a band aid or you don't see them scratching themselves. It's meaningless. If they make them meaningful, then I'm all in for the moodlets. At this point though, we either have them and they just haven't told us, or we don't have them at all. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. But I'm thinking that emotions will be a more simplified, yet more meaningful version of moodlets.
Agreed. I don't think what the OP was trying to say that "emotions" are inherently bad in the game, per-Se, but that watching the sims become emotional in the game is enough and it doesn't need to be shown in the UI as they are showing us will happen in Sims 4. We are not stupid when we play our games and we can see what's going on.
Also I have to agree with Cinebar that the emotions might be overdone, and that is based on what EA has done with previous games already. I have to have mods to tone things down because they have gone completely overboard on some aspects of the games.
I would say what my worry about Sims 4 is that they will be overdone. I know from personal experience that I'm not a drama lover and don't enjoy being around people who overreact to things. I can just imagine, for example, all of a sudden, in Sims 4, my sim has a negative reaction with another sim and goes into a depression state. This might be a sim that I want my sim to have a good relationship with but the game is forcing me to not be able to. I don't like that the game will be telling me what I can do with my sims and not the other way around. I am hoping, as Cinebar said, that there will be ways around this like we've had in the previous games. It would be nice if the little picture that tells us what mood our sims are feeling could be hidden for those who don't want to see it and CAN figure out what is going on with our sims without being TOLD.
What it appears is that EA is dumbing down the game, and for a middle aged adult that has had a lot of real life experience, that is frankly insulting.
I wonder if this would be true if this person disagreed with you and therefore ripped into your personal life (knowing absolutely nothing about it) and then blamed you for being confused and thinking that bluntness and meanness were two different things.
The cliques and fanboys on these forums are absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it bothers me when people are mean and rude for no reason other than that they feel brave and safe talking to someone on the other side of a computer screen.
Admiring a person who sticks to his guns and can coherently argue a point is one thing; to admire someone who wins arguments by dragging his opponent through the mud (subtly and just passive-aggressive enough to blame it on the victim) is sad.
Well said, Jim
As opposed to to a person who passively-aggressively attacks that other person and does not call the other person on it?
*shaking my head*
You think I'm in the wrong? Call me on it. I gave you a couple items in my previous post to you to call me on and evidence to use on purpose. So you could call me on something, be right, and I could apologize and we could move on. Because, for some reason, you seem to need that. So, I figured I would give you the opportunity to get it and see that I am not unreasonable and will admit when I'm in the wrong.
Instead, you ignored it and you talk about me passively-aggressively rather than act like a mature adult and confront me directly. Especially when I'm sitting here, waiting on it and this time you have some actual evidence to back up what you say.
Has it ever occurred to you that I find it irritating when people bring in their life experience to what has been a nice discussion? Because at that point, to counter it, I do have to rip into their life experience... it's no longer a nice discussion because they brought in their life stuff and made it personal. And, no, it's not just you... I have seen it time and again on here, with not just me being the other person, and the discussion always turns nasty because the person who brought in their life experience ends up feeling insulted or ends up claiming the other person didn't fully address what they had to say.
So, yes, I ripped into it. I did it in the most blunt way I could... and all I ask is you think before you bring it in another discussion. All I ask is you take the time to make certain it is actually necessary and you are prepared just in case the other person rips into it.
I, personally, can't handle it with a lot of my life stuff... that's why you never see me bring it in, and why the one discussion I brought in life stuff I couldn't handle being ripped into left me a sobbing wreck who eventually deleted the posts and tried to avoid talking to that other person. That other person eventually talked some sense into me, just as I talked some sense into them, and at current we have a civility towards each other. I do not blame them for my failing in that conversation... I made the decision to react with a personal life, I made the decision to bring it in, and I suffered the consequences. I take responsibility for my actions on that thread, and I accept it was my fault I ended up feeling like crap in the end. So I am not holding you to some double-standard.
And, yes, I have ripped into Niac before. But he states his opinion, and marks it as such... his post is one I cannot touch.
Finally, you think I am any different in real life? The same persona I use on here, I use out in the real world. Some of the people I deal with on a regular basis are extremely combative and will run roughshod over you if you are not as combative as they are, so I have to be combative every single day of my life just to deal with these people. In general, what you see on here is a much nicer version of who I have to be in person... because I am behind a computer screen, so I feel safe in being nicer to people. In person, I'm a lot nastier.
Yet, strangely, those who know me offline and see me without the persona comment I'm one of the nicest people they know.
Yeah, my life sucks and I might be what you consider a loser. So what? You commented that I don't know your real life... but I bet I was utterly right about your marriage. I bet if you looked at your husband right now, you would know exactly what he's feeling... because in your time with him, you've learned how to read him. And I bet it bothers you on some level that I am right. That all I needed was the information that you're married to be able to instantly know details about your marriage... details you didn't think anyone else could know. It tends to bother people a lot when I do that.
So, tell me, do you think my life excuses how I act? Do you think the fact I spend every day arguing with or being nasty to people in person because I need to be excuses how I am on here? I don't. Just as I don't think your real life had anything to do with this discussion and did not enjoy you bringing in your real-life experience to make a comment on life. Just as I do not think it excuses your actions now. We are who we choose to be... I, of all people, know how true that is, given how easy it is for me to become someone else. I chose what I feel serves me best on here. And in Sims 4, I will wear a different mask and use a different persona... because that's what I do, and because the past few years have left me not wanting to wear this persona anymore.
Tanya, I am sorry that you have to deal with awful people on a daily basis and that being nasty is the only way that you know how to deal with them.
The comment that you seem to think was about my personal life was "life would be incredibly boring if we always knew how everyone felt all the time". This was a comment on life in general, not on my life. From this, you made many assumptions regarding who I am and you made my personal life part of the argument. I was dumbfounded then and I am dumbfounded now.
Here are the assumptions that you made about me (or the implications, if you rather)
-I have no life nor have I lived
-I play video games too much
-I am alone
-I am autistic or sociopathic?
Now, you can tell me or yourself that these were all generalizations and not directed at me, but we both know that they were attacks that were intended to get a rise. It worked. I have been scratching my head since Friday trying to figure out how I offended you such that you would need to react in that fashion.
I didn't call you out for anything until you forced me to do so. We were debating, not having a "yo mama's so fat" joke-off. And once I took your bait you responded by telling me that it was my fault that you were being nasty. That somehow I had "brought it on myself", at which point I realized that it was pointless to argue with you. And then here comes a "follower" to say how awesome you are because you are rude and mean. I mean blunt. Whatever you want to call it.
Yes, you are clearly a prominent member of the community (12k posts, wow!) and therefore you are not to be trifled with. And heaven forbid someone else put their neck out on the chopping block and let you know how very abrasive and insulting you are because if they do, they'll surely be next.
I am done arguing with you about why I deserve to be bullied. That is not what this post was meant to be about, and I find you to be completely unreasonable and, quite frankly, oblivious to your own behavior patterns. Respond or don't, but I am done with you. I see no good that can come from further interaction with you.
This is the *only* part of the post that I'll bother to reply to, and no, I didn't really bother to read the rest...again, just the same old, same old, some player trying to tell the Sims 4 team how to make the game according to *their* preference.
However, in regards to the memory system (which, by the way, didn't even come with the base game...it was added in an expansion pack because the fans demanded it)...the Sims Team also gave us the option to disable memories and x out of the notifications...in other words, we can opt out of the whole memory thing *if we want to*...so, if you're seeing a lot of pop-ups, whose fault is that? Yours, not EA's. They gave you a way out, not our problem if you choose not to use it. And, by the way, there's been no mention of any kind of memory system in The Sims 4. How much you want to bet they not only don't include it, but that there will be endless petitions demanding it back, so the game can be more like The Sims 2? That's how it got added to The Sims 3, you know.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
Yes, we players of TS2 are relentless in our demands for every subsequent Sims game to be an exact replica of TS2, aren't we? I don't mind the petitions. I don't read them unless the petition sounds like something I care about.
I like that my Sims have memories, I just want them to be more manageable and realistic. I would rather have memories that mean something than have to either a)go through the memories every few plays and delete the ones that are meaningless ("Tom just ate toast for the first time!") or b)not have any at all.
As for the pop-ups, I did not realize that that was an option. Thanks, I am really happy to know that I can get rid of them!
Sarcasm aside, a lot of what I've seen on here is a demand that TS4 use the same type of gameplay as The Sims 2, including having to buy clothing and some open venues, thoug we *may* or may not have an open world....and there will be howls of outrage if we don't have an open world, even though *not* having it will probably make the game run better.
As for disabling the memories, if I'm not mistaken, that comes under the Option menu...look under the Game Options icon. I think you'll find the option there.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
How may I put it...
Someone insulting you, is not bullying. Someone saying your ideas are bad, is not bullying. Someone criticizing you in a blunt manner, is not bullying. Someone pointing out faults and flaws in your appearance, lifestyle, or mannerisms is not bullying.
Bullying is bullying.
Don't cry bullying just because you brought yourself into the argument and basically forced the issue.
It is not the only way I know how to deal with them. It is the way I have found most effective in dealing with them. Some people you must simply be nasty back to; they do not understand anything else.
Comments on life in general are reflections of personal life. They reflect your experiences up to this point, how you view things, and what you have experienced. They reflect who you are. Even my reply is such; it reflects the fact I have actually experienced what it is like to know another feelings and paid attention to the fact I knew it. The difference between us is, I can stand my life experiences being ripped into; that is why I can use them. And one cannot address, properly, a comment on life in general without addressing the experience that led up to that comment.
Also, where did I actually say you have no life? Where did I say you play video games too much? Where did I say you are alone? Where did I say you are autistic or sociopathic? I use a lot of generalized statements in my comments, but none of those are items I claimed or even implied about you.
Telling someone they are inexperienced in an area does not say they have no life; everyone is inexperienced in some area. Telling someone to put down the video games... this is a video game forum, and you wouldn't be here unless you played them at least in part, so advising you to put them down for awhile is just telling you to get away from them and focus elsewhere for a bit (and it was presented as advice on top of that). Saying to find someone you actually connect with is not saying you're alone; in fact, it kinda implies the opposite, in that it implies you are with someone but you do not have a strong connection with them. And pointing out the autism or sociopathy was intended to point out that anyone can experience what it is like to know the feelings of another at all times unless they are one of those two; it merely requires finding the right person.
And the fact you "know" these were attacks to get a rise reflects on your worldview; if I wanted to get a rise out of you, I know a lot more effective methods of doing so. Like accusing you of having your head crammed in a certain orifice; that always gets a rise out of people. I could have easily slipped that one in, and some people would tell me that the accusation would not be inaccurate (I know because one has already told me this through email).
This isn't offended. People have seen offended. People on here have also learned that when you offend me, the kid gloves I've been treating you with vanish.
12k posts mean nothing. Neither does the people coming in and telling you that you're not experiencing bullying. All 12k posts means is I have too much time on my hands. All those other people coming in to tell you about me does is let you know I'm a bit known and that people know my style. And take a look at what I have said... I am asking you to think more critically about what you say in support of an idea. Not asking you not to argue your idea. Nor am I asking you to consider me anything less than a nasty person... just to think more carefully about what I have said instead of assuming that everything I say must be directed or about you when replying to you. And, yes, you've been assuming a lot... and we all know what "assume" makes out of people.
And you still think this is bullying you... do you need someone to show you what bullying on here is really like? Do you need to actually experience it to know the difference? Because I know people who would gladly demonstrate the difference for you... and then leave you understanding that just because I'm rough and abrasive doesn't mean I'm bullying you. After all, a bully wouldn't conclude you have a strong marriage with your husband and connect to him... instead, they would state you are a terrible wife who doesn't love him and probably only married him for his money.
Grow a thicker skin and learn what bullying is. Because your victim complex in this discussion is very attractive to real bullies looking for a victim; after all, you just loudly advertised that you're an easy target.
I personally think this is a case of the "Wounded Zebra".
Or rather... "Whoever is the victim is the one who is right."
*slaps forehead* I can't tell you how many times I've been the person being dragged into the mud by Tanya, and there have only been a couple times where I come back from it with the same opinions as I had before. I've learned my lessons... you obviously haven't.
I'm sorry. You are exxagerating. The Suims in the Sims 2 were more emotional than The Sims in The Sims 3 and the game wasn't all about that. Ten years later it's pretty reasonable they could tweak and refine that, while not making it overtake the entire gameplay. Even because most of the emotional features presented so far are quite shallow, based on objets, and we could do without those.
You know, your line of thought isn't good for this industry. Take Pixar, for example. Then they did Monsters INC, there was no way to render fur like they did. So they just came up with a brand new way. They've faced similar challenges in most of their films and tacked them. Even The sims 2 had some creative solutions dealing with season back in The Sims 2, where they made snow and rain in a way that wasn't too taxing on the machines we had back then using creative solutions.
All the time we see people in computing industry break molds. Whenever something doesn't seem possible, they change the paradigm, think outside the box and make it work.
I'm not arguing the system is not shallow; it's a computer game. It's easier to just fake the emotions, as they did in Sims 2, and get more depth than try a true emotions engine, as they are with Sims 4. That's why Sims 2 has a bit of an advantage; since they weren't programming actual emotions in the first place, they had a lot more room for the animations to fake it. That's also why video game makers don't try to create emotion engines; they generally get farther by just faking it, using tricks and slight of hand to fill in any empty spots, and letting the players enjoy the show.
Basically, what they're doing with Sims 4 is trying coding like you would see in a true AI. Rather than simply go with animations with a couple of simple triggers, they're trying a complex trigger system like you would see in an actual person to try to create real emotions. You've already stated several of the disadvantages of doing this. However, at the same time, this is still something entirely new; no other video game maker on the planet uses an emotions engine and I know of no attempts to make one before now.
So, in a way, the Sims 4 engine is an attempt at pulling something similar to what Pixar did with fur. If they succeed... they will blow anything we have seen in any other video game, as far as emotions, out of the water and make every other attempt at simulating emotions look like it was done by rank amateurs.
But that doesn't mean that there are not problems. All of the problems I cited with having to tell people what they're feeling? That's not game-side; that's a problem real people have with interpreting the emotions of others. That's why the Sims series has always used over-exaggerated emotions and a lot of games either over-exaggerate them or have you up close to where you can observe them (or, in cases where neither is an option, pretty much flat-out tell you what the emotion is). So, the adding of flat-out telling you what the emotion is isn't for the simulation side, but to make things easier on players by eliminating and chance of uncertainty.
It's like how the monsters in Monsters, Inc. inform you outright that they need screams for power.
And yet, by the end of the movie, they understand that laughter is much more powerful...
I really don't think sims in TS4 will have AI emotions at all. They'll just have a revamped moodlets system, limiting and unlocking actions per emotional state, and more animations, some that working combined with other animations.
I don't need my Sim to react to painting r colors. I surely don't do that. Let's have emotions, surely. Let's base them on relationships though. I care more how family, lovers, co-workers and enemies affect me, not the color green or a 60's styled rocket painting.
I fear they might overdo emotions and it will be TS3 all over again. So much focus on worlds that many other features got put aside.
And that's if they fail to achieve to what they set out to do. Which is also my fear. If it becomes all about emotions and emotions are badly done... then what's the point? Sims 3 isn't running half-badly on my computer and with it I will soon have nearly everything I want.
So, in the potential for this game to utterly suck, we agree. I see potential for it to be good. Thus, I'm waiting for more information before making a final decision.
If at all possible, I think there should be advanced options and modes where we can set the amount of sims per town, (using Sims 3 as an example) an option to cut off or on the attraction system system or (still using Sims 3 as an example) cut on and off CASt. Mode wise (and still using Sims 3 as an example, lol) with the world editor we have in game where we can add and bulldoze lots give us an option or a way to add addresses, add roads, edit terrain... things like that.
I mean CASt isn't in Sims 4 and we may not be able to edit the towns or any of that but I'm trying to give an example of what I'm talking about. Just more options to give us a bit more control without mods if possible. As long as it doesn't affect the game in a negative way or anything.
So you say computer are not that advance. Go fetch me 16 Kilobytes of ram. Next fetch me 32 megabytes of ram. Thirdly fetch me 8 Gigabytes of ram. Come on. We gone a long way since Commodore 64 computers. Today computers can multi-task. A big fact Amiga could multi-task in real time. Heck my mom programmed on punch cards. A lot of things have changed. We no longer use floppy drives. Hard drive storage has gone up.
CPU cores have gone up. We gone from 1 megahertz CPU to Gigahertz CPU. We gone from Single core CPU to Quad-core and up CPU. Disprove all my facts if you can.