@Onverser the image you posted is essentially how they presented it. There is no giant list at the top. Just essentially those same choices in a different drop down.
No? This is what they showed, the pronouns all listed after the name at the top
It's great that it leaves it up to player choice, but as far as the display, not a fan. I don't want them to show like that, I'd much rather they were hidden unless the player wants them displayed. It makes it look like EA is trying to show off for social points and kind of cheapens the gesture. Why would a player need the pronouns displayed in their own game? Surely they know the genders of their own Sims? It will bother the blaggard out of me to constantly see "he/him" and "she/her" after every single Sim name.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I like to create dark, edgy stories in my game and if I'm creating a super evil, mean Demon-like vampire, if I called him "A Finger of Evil" or something like that, it would really kill the feel for me if I named him that, only to see (He/Him) next to his name. As if an evil demon would really care about political correctness. I don't need pronouns to be able to tell what gender MY Sims are and really hope there's an option to opt out. If there isn't... I hope the modding community comes up with something.
I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive".
Not opposite to this pronouns.
However, I just wonder if this can apply to other languages.
In some countries, the pronouns of male and female are the same
@Onverser the image you posted is essentially how they presented it. There is no giant list at the top. Just essentially those same choices in a different drop down.
No? This is what they showed, the pronouns all listed after the name at the top
It's great that it leaves it up to player choice, but as far as the display, not a fan. I don't want them to show like that, I'd much rather they were hidden unless the player wants them displayed. It makes it look like EA is trying to show off for social points and kind of cheapens the gesture. Why would a player need the pronouns displayed in their own game? Surely they know the genders of their own Sims? It will bother the blaggard out of me to constantly see "he/him" and "she/her" after every single Sim name.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I like to create dark, edgy stories in my game and if I'm creating a super evil, mean Demon-like vampire, if I called him "A Finger of Evil" or something like that, it would really kill the feel for me if I named him that, only to see (He/Him) next to his name. As if an evil demon would really care about political correctness. I don't need pronouns to be able to tell what gender MY Sims are and really hope there's an option to opt out. If there isn't... I hope the modding community comes up with something.
I have to agree with LJK, I'd rather not have my pronouns next to my name, why can't it be hidden, the only people that openly display their pronouns are people on Twitter, who mostly just do it for attention, While I'm glad Non-Binary people are getting represented however it feels more like a cop out doing it this way.
@Onverser the image you posted is essentially how they presented it. There is no giant list at the top. Just essentially those same choices in a different drop down.
No? This is what they showed, the pronouns all listed after the name at the top
It's great that it leaves it up to player choice, but as far as the display, not a fan. I don't want them to show like that, I'd much rather they were hidden unless the player wants them displayed. It makes it look like EA is trying to show off for social points and kind of cheapens the gesture. Why would a player need the pronouns displayed in their own game? Surely they know the genders of their own Sims? It will bother the blaggard out of me to constantly see "he/him" and "she/her" after every single Sim name.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I like to create dark, edgy stories in my game and if I'm creating a super evil, mean Demon-like vampire, if I called him "A Finger of Evil" or something like that, it would really kill the feel for me if I named him that, only to see (He/Him) next to his name. As if an evil demon would really care about political correctness. I don't need pronouns to be able to tell what gender MY Sims are and really hope there's an option to opt out. If there isn't... I hope the modding community comes up with something.
I have to agree with LJK, I'd rather not have my pronouns next to my name, why can't it be hidden, the only people that openly display their pronouns are people on Twitter, who mostly just do it for attention, While I'm glad Non-Binary people are getting represented however it feels more like a cop out doing it this way.
I have my pronouns in my twitter bio to help normalize it. Same with the one discord where I do have them next to my name. Another discord I just have my pronouns as one of my Roles, again, to normalize it.
In the past, before declaring pronouns became a thing, I'd occasionally get misgendered on some gaming forums because it was back when the baseline assumption was that you were male unless you made a big deal about it, and I didn't do that because I didn't want to be either patronized or harassed (or both) but it still bugged me to be assumed to be a "he." "They" doesn't bother me, though, even though I'm very much a cis (mostly) het woman.
Not opposite to this pronouns.
However, I just wonder if this can apply to other languages.
In some countries, the pronouns of male and female are the same
Honestly, Im not sure. But the update allows a "custom" option so that may be their alternative is just (whatever country ______ uses) + the custom option for anyone who wants to use their own neopronouns.
On Zoom at work we're all putting our pronouns next to our name. We're a university with over 30,000 students so it helps when you reach online. It's right there by people's names.
In this video the devs only showed the pronouns next to the character's name in CAS, not during gameplay. I wouldn't assume the pronouns would be displayed next to the character's name in Live mode.
In any case, as a non-binary trans person I'm glad that the devs appear to be treating this subject with the attention and sensitivity that it deserves. It might take quite awhile for them to implement the change, especially in languages other than English, but I'm cautiously optimistic based on what they shared in the video this week.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
I think using pronouns in real life like that is so unnecessary. I miss the time when people didn't care about pronouns. Hopefully this is soemthing that will phase out eventually. And yes, I know we all use pronouns. But just a few years ago we didn't need to display our pronouns everywhere or ask about them.
I think using pronouns in real life like that is so unnecessary. I miss the time when people didn't care about pronouns. Hopefully this is soemthing that will phase out eventually. And yes, I know we all use pronouns. But just a few years ago we didn't need to display our pronouns everywhere or ask about them.
The point is to normalize displaying and asking about them for everyone, not just those of us who have non-standard or non-"obvious" pronouns. You might be able to take it for granted that people know you're a she/her or a he/him; I can't, and neither can many other folks.
I wonder if the decision to incorporate customisable pronouns in a game like this will help people who don't know very much about the topic to learn about it? Perhaps it will also help people who are dealing with their own issues surrounding the topic.
I grew up in a very conservative, non-diverse environment so I'd never heard of anything other than binary identities as a child. I struggled with being female for a long, long time because I felt like I didn't fit in with the women around me, yet I didn't feel as though I were male either. Even now there are times when I feel that sense of not quite fitting in terms of being female. A while ago it occurred to me that I might have identified as non-binary if I'd been presented with the option as a teen.
Thinking about the whole "it's obvious" argument. It's really not that obvious. Historically, many women have deliberately hidden their gender to serve in the military or even just travel without harrassment.
And while it took an uncommon "perfect storm" of my tendency to not be very gender-conforming in my clothing, being short, look younger than I am and at the time fairly modestly endowed, I've even been mistaken for a pre-teen boy on occasion back when I was in my 20's and I wasn't even trying to be androgynous. It also happens with guys who have long hair and girls with short hair.
Even for people who are part of the binary, it's not always simple and obvious.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to. Keep in mind that there are many people who are afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear of being persecuted by the angry mobs or accused of being "transphobic". There's a lot of aggression being thrown around (on all sides), especially on social media, and it can really intimidate and put fear into people. They're certainly not going to advertise feeling that way if they're going to be attacked for it.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to. Keep in mind that there are many people who are afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear of being persecuted by the angry mobs or accused of being "transphobic". There's a lot of aggression being thrown around (on all sides), especially on social media, and it can really intimidate and put fear into people. They're certainly not going to advertise feeling that way if they're going to be attacked for it.
This is getting off-topic, but I can guarantee you that the fear and aggression trans people experience on a daily basis just for existing, are far greater than that experienced by cis people for their language choices.
Biologists who have studied more than the hyper-simplified version most people learn in High School have said it's not that binary. I'm going with the science.
Biologists who have studied more than the hyper-simplified version most people learn in High School have said it's not that binary. I'm going with the science.
Yes! I'm one! I teach developmental psychology at university and I have so many units on the genetic and prenatal etiology of intersex, and another unit on gender and sexual development and how non-binary it is when examined scientifically and not politically.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to.
If you talk to researchers who have spent 30+ years on this, it's a lot less binary. Also, we are rarely attracted to a person's sex, and much more attracted to their gender. Breasts are usually the exception here.
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to. Keep in mind that there are many people who are afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear of being persecuted by the angry mobs or accused of being "transphobic". There's a lot of aggression being thrown around (on all sides), especially on social media, and it can really intimidate and put fear into people. They're certainly not going to advertise feeling that way if they're going to be attacked for it.
This is getting off-topic, but I can guarantee you that the fear and aggression trans people experience on a daily basis just for existing, are far greater than that experienced by cis people for their language choices.
First, please don't turn this into a contest of "who is the biggest victim" because it's insulting and diminishing to all who suffer (*including trans people) and I'm pretty sure that's not where you're trying to go with this. I do know that trans people are suffering, just as certain races suffer, just as certain sexualities suffer, just as women continue to suffer and it goes on and on depending on what parts of the world, what societies, what regions, what neighborhoods...we're talking about. None of it is "good" or "acceptable" suffering.
Second, you seem to spit out "cis" like it doesn't include gay, lesbian, bi, etc., race, class, disability, culture, victims of violence, mentally ill, detransitioners and anyone else "not trans" who also knows suffering, so maybe you could rethink your own stereotypes?
Third, my statement was about a lot more than "language choices", it was about other identity types. Gender is not the one and only aspect of a human identity and I was specifically addressing sexual identity. Identity is different for every single person and different people prioritize different aspects. None are more important than others because it's all personal and all important. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I can accept that, if you can.
Finally, in case you are misunderstanding and jumping into fight mode by habit, my entire argument is not about trying to block pronouns from coming into the game. I think having the option is great and necessary for those who feel strongly about having it, and I like that it's completely flexible as well as optional to view so everyone can have their own way in their own games, as it should be. My concern has always been about the mechanics, about being able to also have sexual identity and biological sex because they are still real things to real people, just as pronouns and trans identity are real things to real people. They coexist. Inclusivity is inclusivity and with a lot of the dialogue becoming gender neutral, my concern has been that it will prevent the ability for Sims to choose a preferred sex (or gender) down the line. I voice my concerns in hopes that developers will take it into consideration and we can all one day customize the game as we want it.
Biologists who have studied more than the hyper-simplified version most people learn in High School have said it's not that binary. I'm going with the science.
Do you have a link to any of those studies? I'd be genuinely interested to read them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a general shift in non-binary preferences, but I don't think it's all-encompassing, especially when you take all of the cultures of the world into account. I also think that sexuality is complicated in itself and that, yes, most (or at least, many) people exist on a sliding scale of preference (and I believe it's the same for levels of masculinity/femininity but that's another debate) but eventually settle into a more static preference as they mature. But I also think for many others, their sexuality can be as simple as the "simplified high school" sex ed version.
I confess I'm not, in fact, a biologist. I speak from personal experiences and those that I know of the people in my life. They are by no means the majority of the population so of course there's always room for more information, lol. I often go with science as well, but I also go with the experiences of real people. I think there's room for both, after all, that's where biologists get their info from in the first place, yes?
Also, this looks like it may still continue to lead into the erasure of the sexes altogether, which I actually want my game to acknowledge. I still want one day to be able to set an all-female club to only flirt with males or females and vise versa. I want single Sims to one day have a sexual preference, like actual sex of the Sim, you know, like real people do. I just hope this doesn't start to blur the gender/sex lines completely for game recognition because that takes a whole lot of personal gameplay purpose and sexual identity away for a lot of players and what good would it do to sacrifice one identity for another? Because one is trending? You can't wedge in one identity by erasing another and then pat yourself on the back and call yourself "inclusive". I may be jumping the gun with my doubt, but I just hope they've been really thinking this through before going in and making a bunch of core changes.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to. Keep in mind that there are many people who are afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear of being persecuted by the angry mobs or accused of being "transphobic". There's a lot of aggression being thrown around (on all sides), especially on social media, and it can really intimidate and put fear into people. They're certainly not going to advertise feeling that way if they're going to be attacked for it.
This is getting off-topic, but I can guarantee you that the fear and aggression trans people experience on a daily basis just for existing, are far greater than that experienced by cis people for their language choices.
First, please don't turn this into a contest of "who is the biggest victim" because it's insulting and diminishing to all who suffer and I'm pretty sure that's not where you're trying to go with this. I do know that trans people are suffering, just as certain races suffer, just as certain sexualities suffer, just as women continue to suffer and it goes on and on depending on what parts of the world, what societies, what regions, what neighborhoods...we're talking about. None of it is "good" or "acceptable" suffering.
Second, you seem to spit out "cis" like it doesn't include gay, lesbian, bi, etc., race, class, disability, culture, victims of violence, mentally ill, detransitioners and anyone else "not trans" who also knows suffering, so maybe you could rethink your own stereotypes?
Except for detransitioners, trans people are also in every every single one of those categories. I am several myself (Black, queer, in a same-sex marriage, and have a lifelong history of clinical depression).
As to the remainder of your comment, I don't have the energy to do further education on this topic so I'm bowing out of this particular discussion.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
That depends on who you talk to.
If you talk to researchers who have spent 30+ years on this, it's a lot less binary. Also, we are rarely attracted to a person's sex, and much more attracted to their gender. Breasts are usually the exception here.
That's interesting! "Breasts are the exception", lol. I don't know why I find that funny.
So... I really want to have more of this conversation because it's truly interesting, but I don't know if I can keep it "PG" and I also don't want to derail the thread or offend anyone here with certain contradictory "findings" of my own, lol.
I'll just say that I've known people who had specific preferences that lead me to believe it's at least a combination of sorts when gender presentation didn't matter but sex did. I guess you can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Biologists who have studied more than the hyper-simplified version most people learn in High School have said it's not that binary. I'm going with the science.
Do you have a link to any of those studies? I'd be genuinely interested to read them. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's a general shift in non-binary preferences, but I don't think it's all-encompassing, especially when you take all of the cultures of the world into account. I also think that sexuality is complicated in itself and that, yes, most (or at least, many) people exist on a sliding scale of preference (and I believe it's the same for levels of masculinity/femininity but that's another debate) but eventually settle into a more static preference as they mature. But I also think for many others, their sexuality can be as simple as the "simplified high school" sex ed version.
I confess I'm not, in fact, a biologist. I speak from personal experiences and those that I know of the people in my life. They are by no means the majority of the population so of course there's always room for more information, lol. I often go with science as well, but I also go with the experiences of real people. I think there's room for both, after all, that's where biologists get their info from in the first place, yes?
Sexual Preferences are a completely different thing from Biological Expression or Gender Identity.
I'm not a Biologist either, but my daughter is a Bio Major, so most of my information has been her talking about it, or else I would provide links to studies (unless they were paywalled.)
But this isn't a cultural thing that can shift with cultural norms. Biologically, the definition of "male" and "female" isn't nearly as clear cut as we're taught in High School. One factoid that my kid regularly brings up is that 1 out of 300 people that we'd normally consider "biologically male" and expect to be chromosomally XY are actually XX, because it's not simply the Y chromosome that results in the expression of male characteristics. These people have male characteristics, and can impregnate someone who can be impregnated. But their chromosomes are XX, rather than XY. It's just that unless they're genetically tested, there's no way to know that. She's explained how it works, but as I don't need to know (while she does) it doesn't quite stick in my head. But this is something that's been known since... I want to say the 70's, but I'm not sure.
Comments
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I like to create dark, edgy stories in my game and if I'm creating a super evil, mean Demon-like vampire, if I called him "A Finger of Evil" or something like that, it would really kill the feel for me if I named him that, only to see (He/Him) next to his name. As if an evil demon would really care about political correctness. I don't need pronouns to be able to tell what gender MY Sims are and really hope there's an option to opt out. If there isn't... I hope the modding community comes up with something.
However, I just wonder if this can apply to other languages.
In some countries, the pronouns of male and female are the same
I have to agree with LJK, I'd rather not have my pronouns next to my name, why can't it be hidden, the only people that openly display their pronouns are people on Twitter, who mostly just do it for attention, While I'm glad Non-Binary people are getting represented however it feels more like a cop out doing it this way.
I have my pronouns in my twitter bio to help normalize it. Same with the one discord where I do have them next to my name. Another discord I just have my pronouns as one of my Roles, again, to normalize it.
In the past, before declaring pronouns became a thing, I'd occasionally get misgendered on some gaming forums because it was back when the baseline assumption was that you were male unless you made a big deal about it, and I didn't do that because I didn't want to be either patronized or harassed (or both) but it still bugged me to be assumed to be a "he." "They" doesn't bother me, though, even though I'm very much a cis (mostly) het woman.
Honestly, Im not sure. But the update allows a "custom" option so that may be their alternative is just (whatever country ______ uses) + the custom option for anyone who wants to use their own neopronouns.
In any case, as a non-binary trans person I'm glad that the devs appear to be treating this subject with the attention and sensitivity that it deserves. It might take quite awhile for them to implement the change, especially in languages other than English, but I'm cautiously optimistic based on what they shared in the video this week.
"Actual" sex and and the sexual preferences of "real people" are a lot less binary than you seem to be implying they are.
I think using pronouns in real life like that is so unnecessary. I miss the time when people didn't care about pronouns. Hopefully this is soemthing that will phase out eventually. And yes, I know we all use pronouns. But just a few years ago we didn't need to display our pronouns everywhere or ask about them.
The point is to normalize displaying and asking about them for everyone, not just those of us who have non-standard or non-"obvious" pronouns. You might be able to take it for granted that people know you're a she/her or a he/him; I can't, and neither can many other folks.
I grew up in a very conservative, non-diverse environment so I'd never heard of anything other than binary identities as a child. I struggled with being female for a long, long time because I felt like I didn't fit in with the women around me, yet I didn't feel as though I were male either. Even now there are times when I feel that sense of not quite fitting in terms of being female. A while ago it occurred to me that I might have identified as non-binary if I'd been presented with the option as a teen.
And while it took an uncommon "perfect storm" of my tendency to not be very gender-conforming in my clothing, being short, look younger than I am and at the time fairly modestly endowed, I've even been mistaken for a pre-teen boy on occasion back when I was in my 20's and I wasn't even trying to be androgynous. It also happens with guys who have long hair and girls with short hair.
Even for people who are part of the binary, it's not always simple and obvious.
That depends on who you talk to. Keep in mind that there are many people who are afraid to speak their true feelings out of fear of being persecuted by the angry mobs or accused of being "transphobic". There's a lot of aggression being thrown around (on all sides), especially on social media, and it can really intimidate and put fear into people. They're certainly not going to advertise feeling that way if they're going to be attacked for it.
This is getting off-topic, but I can guarantee you that the fear and aggression trans people experience on a daily basis just for existing, are far greater than that experienced by cis people for their language choices.
Yes! I'm one! I teach developmental psychology at university and I have so many units on the genetic and prenatal etiology of intersex, and another unit on gender and sexual development and how non-binary it is when examined scientifically and not politically.
If you talk to researchers who have spent 30+ years on this, it's a lot less binary. Also, we are rarely attracted to a person's sex, and much more attracted to their gender. Breasts are usually the exception here.
First, please don't turn this into a contest of "who is the biggest victim" because it's insulting and diminishing to all who suffer (*including trans people) and I'm pretty sure that's not where you're trying to go with this. I do know that trans people are suffering, just as certain races suffer, just as certain sexualities suffer, just as women continue to suffer and it goes on and on depending on what parts of the world, what societies, what regions, what neighborhoods...we're talking about. None of it is "good" or "acceptable" suffering.
Second, you seem to spit out "cis" like it doesn't include gay, lesbian, bi, etc., race, class, disability, culture, victims of violence, mentally ill, detransitioners and anyone else "not trans" who also knows suffering, so maybe you could rethink your own stereotypes?
Third, my statement was about a lot more than "language choices", it was about other identity types. Gender is not the one and only aspect of a human identity and I was specifically addressing sexual identity. Identity is different for every single person and different people prioritize different aspects. None are more important than others because it's all personal and all important. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I can accept that, if you can.
Finally, in case you are misunderstanding and jumping into fight mode by habit, my entire argument is not about trying to block pronouns from coming into the game. I think having the option is great and necessary for those who feel strongly about having it, and I like that it's completely flexible as well as optional to view so everyone can have their own way in their own games, as it should be. My concern has always been about the mechanics, about being able to also have sexual identity and biological sex because they are still real things to real people, just as pronouns and trans identity are real things to real people. They coexist. Inclusivity is inclusivity and with a lot of the dialogue becoming gender neutral, my concern has been that it will prevent the ability for Sims to choose a preferred sex (or gender) down the line. I voice my concerns in hopes that developers will take it into consideration and we can all one day customize the game as we want it.
*added a tidbit to hopefully clarify
Do you have a link to any of those studies? I'd be genuinely interested to read them.
I confess I'm not, in fact, a biologist.
Except for detransitioners, trans people are also in every every single one of those categories. I am several myself (Black, queer, in a same-sex marriage, and have a lifelong history of clinical depression).
As to the remainder of your comment, I don't have the energy to do further education on this topic so I'm bowing out of this particular discussion.
That's interesting! "Breasts are the exception", lol. I don't know why I find that funny.
So... I really want to have more of this conversation because it's truly interesting, but I don't know if I can keep it "PG" and I also don't want to derail the thread or offend anyone here with certain contradictory "findings" of my own, lol.
I'll just say that I've known people who had specific preferences that lead me to believe it's at least a combination of sorts when gender presentation didn't matter but sex did. I guess you can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Sexual Preferences are a completely different thing from Biological Expression or Gender Identity.
I'm not a Biologist either, but my daughter is a Bio Major, so most of my information has been her talking about it, or else I would provide links to studies (unless they were paywalled.)
But this isn't a cultural thing that can shift with cultural norms. Biologically, the definition of "male" and "female" isn't nearly as clear cut as we're taught in High School. One factoid that my kid regularly brings up is that 1 out of 300 people that we'd normally consider "biologically male" and expect to be chromosomally XY are actually XX, because it's not simply the Y chromosome that results in the expression of male characteristics. These people have male characteristics, and can impregnate someone who can be impregnated. But their chromosomes are XX, rather than XY. It's just that unless they're genetically tested, there's no way to know that. She's explained how it works, but as I don't need to know (while she does) it doesn't quite stick in my head. But this is something that's been known since... I want to say the 70's, but I'm not sure.