February 14 - It's Friday. What does that mean in The Sims forums? Time to highlight some awesim discussions!

What Sims 4 got wrong and brings me back to Sims 3. Can still be fixed!

«13
TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
edited February 12 in The Sims 4 Game Feedback
I play the Sims 4, mostly to tell aka direct stories.

On occasion when I play without my story direction, I'm constantly reminded how limited the "active world" of the sims 4 for creating its own drama.

Everything revolves around your active household, the outside world literally resets based on where you go.

For example go to a bar, it will fill with random sims. Change households, go to same bar it resets with new sims, ejecting the ones there vs a living world where Sims go along their daily lives no matter WHERE you are. For example you'd never see an employed sim walking past your house in the sims 3 - sims 4?

ALL the time.

So why is this important? Because it makes the world more immersive, more alive rather then a doll house that only has the life I put into it.

I was HEAVILY reminded of this difference last night when I jumped into the Sims 3 and had some crazy random drama unfold that could never take place in the Sims 4, which makes me sad and I wanted to illustrate below.

Quick backstory, I made girl named Sam (short for samantha) who went to university, met rapper boy who tries to cheat on his gf with her - but Sam won't have that even if he's a celebrity. Not her style.

Sam comes home to hidden springs and meets another boy she really digs. Meanwhile the game pushers "tourists" from other worlds to visitor your current world, its totally random when and who it sends but if you've met sims in other worlds they retain their relationship meters if they come to visit so their arent totally strangers.

So I've been playing this couple for the better part of the fall now. They go on a date at a lookout far above Hidden Springs.

7ljtGq1.jpg

As her BF seeks washroom, I direct her to look in telescope to pass time. What I do not expect is her weird reaction. Now thats just sims being weird but for fun I decide, ok lets see where she would be looking based on where the telescope is/line of sight. I take the camera zooming it out from the lookout to lets say...central park far below.

IX6yQWw.gif

That guy? At the end of lens chatting up a girl? Ya thats rapper boy from university visiting hidden springs. LIKE what are the chances I'd have her look through the telescope at this moment and see him? From a story tellers point of view, I could see her being like what the PLUM is he doing in hidden springs?!

First off the VERY fact that I have two sims on a date while rapper boy is ALL the way across the map trying to pick up women is something in itself and would NEVER happen in the sims 4.

s12oW0L.jpg

I LOVE THAT about Sims 3, that this is even happening so far apart from where my sims are and the CHANCES it would be him of ALL sims!?

So anyway time goes on, I don't see rapper sim anymore and winter comes around a few days later and Sams boyfriend proposes.

What happens literally after this very special moment?! TOTALLY randomly rapper boy shows up again - and FLIRTS with her? RIGHT after she's been engaged.

OK7whGA.jpg

I laughed so hard at the crazy and this is what the Sims 4 is missing. This random active world craziness.

I LITERALLY could not have asked for better drama and the best drama for me is when I'm not planning it.

It doesn't get more real then this...if they could add this into the Sims 4 still I'd be in heaven.

Oh random chaos...

S7Naegn.gif

Comments

  • Twixxie1602Twixxie1602 Posts: 12 New Member
    @TOLKIEN - this is what makes me miss sims 2 &3. The story progression where everyone lived their own lives and moving on with relationships instead of being single and dying alone. Then the memories from sims 2 gave the game so much depth

    After that last survey with all the relationship questions I got my hopes up so high for a great update to help the relationships in the game that it’s desperately lacking.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,251 Member
    edited February 12
    TS2 did this all the time, too. It was great. TS4 is just a flash pan game when it comes to depth and the complexity of the AI of TS2 or even TS3.

    Long story short, in TS2 who would come by the house when ex wife was just about to kiss her first date (after divorce) but her cad of an ex husband...to stand there and watch...what is remarkable about that is because yes, TS2 has walkbys..but never at 2:00 A.M. Those walkbys are coded to happen during the day. That's why so many love the other games more. We all know that was a highly unusal thing and why it's the one game we all know is the top of heap when it comes to AI, and glad TS3 did some of it, complex AI, too.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • filipomelfilipomel Posts: 1,172 Member
    I want this kind of drama too, I have mods like Sacraficial’s Life’s Drama and Life’s Tragedies to help add some of that drama back into the game, and although these are great mods it isn’t the same if the game just did it on its own with its own sims flare.
    tumblr_muqh2tIOFV1r2uf3jo4_500.gif
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,198 Member
    I'm not so sure it's an easy fix. I think what you're describing are benefits of having an open world versus a closed one.

    There was a time when I believed keeping the closed lot format would benefit the game and weigh out the negatives, however, EA has proven me wrong. We have a closed world and Sims whose intelligence and personalities are more limited compared to their predecessors along with a lot of bugs, gameplay without depth, and so on. In the end, we're playing a game with a world system that is 20 years old, and I say that because even The Sims 2's closed worlds provided far more creative control and benefits than TS4.

    I think The Sims 5 really needs to bring back the open world format and implement it with more stability than TS3 did. The benefits of having one truly outweigh the cons, and it helps the immersion so much. Seeing Sims around living their own lives rather than scripted to walk along a sidewalk from point A to B before disappearing into the abyss makes me feel like I'm actually playing a modern life simulator for the PC.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 17,775 Member
    Yeah I agree. The gameplay and emotions are predictable and limited as the CAS and world design in the Sims 4 right now. Honestly I blame Glassbox simulation engine why the game is as limited as it is. Basically many of the issues Sims 4 is facing are similar to how SimCity2013 was treated. "SimCity was also criticized for the size of the area the player is given to build a city; critics have noted it to be significantly smaller than what was available in previous games. Maxis responded to this criticism by stating that this was a deliberate compromise to ensure that the game would run smoothly on the majority of users' computers."
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCity_(2013_video_game)

    So honestly why I think they keep the trait slots limited and number of emotions limited and different interactions happening at once. Their engine can't handle it and they want to keep it low for players 10 plus old computers.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
  • KaronKaron Posts: 1,728 Member
    @Sk8rblaze its not about open world, its the story progression. Also, that was a problem in SIms 3 at some points, like when you visited a hot spot on town and there was like 2/3 sims at most, because all the rest of the town was at work or sleeping.
  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 1,016 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »

    There was a time when I believed keeping the closed lot format would benefit the game and weigh out the negatives, however, EA has proven me wrong. We have a closed world and Sims whose intelligence and personalities are more limited compared to their predecessors along with a lot of bugs, gameplay without depth, and so on. In the end, we're playing a game with a world system that is 20 years old, and I say that because even The Sims 2's closed worlds provided far more creative control and benefits than TS4.

    This is how i feel exactly. At first i convinced me that a closed world was what i needed, as i was unable to play 3 with all the lagging. But i thought that it was what we had to pay to keep having a game full of content, with good ai... i was ok with that. But it isn't what we got. We lost so much!
  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 1,522 Member
    edited February 12
    I don't think it can or will be fixed. I think it's designed the way it is on purpose sadly.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,502 Member
    I don’t think the devs see this as broken. The Sims 4 doesn’t want to create that kind of “drama” that the Sims 3 and sims 2 do so well. I don’t think it’s necessarily linked to a open world because the sims 2 does it too. Although of course in the example given it was the open world that caused it.

    Sims 4 doesn’t want to do things like that in the vanilla game. It’s a story telling device with a huge focus on being a safe space for people.
  • Frn0731Frn0731 Posts: 7,018 Member
    The quirkey things I miss : I remember in sims 2 there were two sims in a dorm that did not like each other and would break into a fight every time they would meet. Remember the Cow mascot ? always causing mischief ? Or when sims would break out and do the smussle on their own.
    If you used the telescope during the day there was a chance that a neighbour would come over and complain about being spyed on.
    Mrs. Crumplebottom, lighning bolts to show attraction....
    The incompetent nanny and the french maid.... ah ...memories

    Oh one more thing , a weird glitch in the sims1 when the DJ always came to work naked because I placed a shower on the lot.
    Laugh out loud. Often
  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 1,873 Member
    I personally don't have a desire to have "drama" in my game, but I do agree on wanting the world to feel more alive and make more sense.

    For example go to a bar, it will fill with random sims. Change households, go to same bar it resets with new sims, ejecting the ones there vs a living world where Sims go along their daily lives no matter WHERE you are. For example you'd never see an employed sim walking past your house in the sims 3 - sims 4?

    This is what I'd like to see. Consistency among other sims in the world.
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,488 Member
    edited February 12
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    I'm not so sure it's an easy fix. I think what you're describing are benefits of having an open world versus a closed one.

    There was a time when I believed keeping the closed lot format would benefit the game and weigh out the negatives, however, EA has proven me wrong. We have a closed world and Sims whose intelligence and personalities are more limited compared to their predecessors along with a lot of bugs, gameplay without depth, and so on. In the end, we're playing a game with a world system that is 20 years old, and I say that because even The Sims 2's closed worlds provided far more creative control and benefits than TS4.

    I think The Sims 5 really needs to bring back the open world format and implement it with more stability than TS3 did. The benefits of having one truly outweigh the cons, and it helps the immersion so much. Seeing Sims around living their own lives rather than scripted to walk along a sidewalk from point A to B before disappearing into the abyss makes me feel like I'm actually playing a modern life simulator for the PC.

    I'm not sure. I had some Sims 3 moments that stuck with me that could be done in Sims 4, but there would need to be a lot more depth to the personalities.

    For instance, one time I had a young adult sim marry Matthew Hamming -- I didn't know how close to elder he actually was but he aged up a couple of days after their wedding. But then they went to a night club to celebrate, and as they walked in, he had a thought bubble of himself as a young man and she had one as herself as an old woman.

    I do not think Sims 4 is programmed for this type of nuance in their thoughts, but I don't see why there couldn't be moments like that in a closed world. The problem is it would be so easy to overdo things like that, and that I only saw it once is my (embarrassing amount) of hours played says a lot.

    I really miss the thought bubbles that were reflective of the sims and where they were in life -- and the dream bubbles. yes, watching sims sleep is boring, but I loved watching them sleep because you knew where they were hoping to go in life, both in big and small things. And the cuddling and spooning. Just awesome.

    That said, I really hope Sims 5 is a well-programmed, not buggy, offline open world game! Yeah, I know.
  • FurSimsOfficialFurSimsOfficial Posts: 2,130 Member
    edited February 12
    True. The purpose of The Sims 4 seems very close to creating and getting used to an egocentric environment.
    Also one where you don't make most discussions yourself anymore, but it is already being done for you with the excuse of 'it will be easier for you this way'.
    Then I see a lot of forced to like features (exmpl: toilet humor, childish jokes, overhyped meaningless objects, too much lgbtq content) that we would be much more offended by if this was for example The Sims 2.

    You can see a lot of this around you in real life too. Theres a lot more than meets the eye here to me. I don't think The Sims 5 would be any better. I rather focus on independent developers who are on the same side as their fans ;)


  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
    edited February 12
    I personally don't have a desire to have "drama" in my game, but I do agree on wanting the world to feel more alive and make more sense.

    For example go to a bar, it will fill with random sims. Change households, go to same bar it resets with new sims, ejecting the ones there vs a living world where Sims go along their daily lives no matter WHERE you are. For example you'd never see an employed sim walking past your house in the sims 3 - sims 4?

    This is what I'd like to see. Consistency among other sims in the world.

    Ya I agree if they could at LEAST make the world more consistent and I don't believe it needs to "reset" lots every time your Sim visits - thats a programming choice made to keep lots "managed" but they could have done this by using an internal 12 or 24hr clock system that resets Sims locations after a certain amount of time instead of resetting them immediately.

    Anyway this at its base something they certainly could add/fix and would go a long way at least to making the world feel more immersive/alive.
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
    Karon wrote: »
    @Sk8rblaze its not about open world, its the story progression. Also, that was a problem in SIms 3 at some points, like when you visited a hot spot on town and there was like 2/3 sims at most, because all the rest of the town was at work or sleeping.

    Ya that is one issue the Sims 3 has, where Sims will arrive at a lot or "hotspot" they would be ready for bed or hungry because their needs have been decaying all day. Although this was easily modded by having visiting sims needs fill up when they arrive at a lot or simply using a cheat to max everybodies needs so they don't arrive and immediately try to find some place to sleep.

    Again all programming choices or things that can be easily resolved. Its still a game and sometimes it needs help to work within its own systems. While I agree the hotspot could be an issue, on the flip side at least the "right" sims went to the right spot (based on traits ect) vs Sims 4 where anybody or everybody could show up at a club who might not ever go to said place.

    Again another easy program fix if they take the time.
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
    edited February 12
    Felicity wrote: »

    I really miss the thought bubbles that were reflective of the sims and where they were in life -- and the dream bubbles. yes, watching sims sleep is boring, but I loved watching them sleep because you knew where they were hoping to go in life, both in big and small things. And the cuddling and spooning. Just awesome.

    Ya so true about sleep, for Sims 4 its literally just to fill up needs and nothing happens during that time. No burglars, no dreams or cuddles.

    I like watching the thought bubbles pop up over Sims 3 heads so much as they sleep and I think this honestly goes back to another topic I made that Sims 4 don't have personalities per say but are driven by emotions instead. Forcing you to basically "play" them with the personality you want them to have. That would not be an easy fix lol...
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 17,775 Member
    I think the Sims 4 is more narcissistic than egocentric. Here is the difference. "Although egocentrism and narcissism appear similar, they are not the same. A person who is egocentric believes they are the center of attention, like a narcissist, but does not receive gratification by one's own admiration. Both egotists and narcissists are people whose egos are greatly influenced by the approval of others, while for egocentrists this may or may not be true." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentrism

    Sims in the Sims 4 are constantly needing approval of other Sims and in a positive manner. The signs really fit the Sims. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

    "A grandiose sense of self-importance
    Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
    Belief that one is special and can only be understood by or associate with special people or institutions
    A need for excessive admiration
    A sense of entitlement (to special treatment)
    Exploitation of others
    A lack of empathy
    Envy of others or the belief that one is the object of envy
    Arrogant, haughty behavior or attitudes"

    That is why Sims don't have empathy for when a Sim dies. Sims are designed to be narcissistic and the constant need for them to be positive only. "Treatment for narcissistic personality disorder can be challenging because people with this condition present with a great deal of grandiosity and defensiveness, which makes it difficult for them to acknowledge problems and vulnerabilities." So anything to make Sims vulnerable and to tackle problems is ignored. Why there isn't a lot of negative traits too. Pretty much making Sims into virtual dictators. I kind of wish instead of the Sims 4 the game could be called the Sims Dictators because it is a completely different game from the previous iterations and doesn't deserve to be associated with the other three games. It is nothing like them with stories or anything. Then again calling it MySims 2 would be more fitting too since they are just stretched out version of them in a similar safe space.
    "The Sneetches got really quite smart on that day. The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches. And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches. That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars and whether they had one, or not, upon thars." -Dr. Seuss

    Everyone is a Simmer.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 2,250 Member
    I haven't played 3 enoigh
    TOLKIEN wrote: »
    Felicity wrote: »

    I really miss the thought bubbles that were reflective of the sims and where they were in life -- and the dream bubbles. yes, watching sims sleep is boring, but I loved watching them sleep because you knew where they were hoping to go in life, both in big and small things. And the cuddling and spooning. Just awesome.

    Ya so true about sleep, for Sims 4 its literally just to fill up needs and nothing happens during that time. No burglars, no dreams or cuddles.

    I like watching the thought bubbles pop up over Sims 3 heads so much as they sleep and I think this honestly goes back to another topic I made that Sims 4 don't have personalities per say but are driven by emotions instead. Forcing you to basically "play" them with the personality you want them to have. That would not be an easy fix lol...

    Sims 4 sims also have dream bubbles over their heads. The pop up on and off while they sleep. Usually random stuff. They also laugh or cry in their sleep depending on their mood.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 2,250 Member
    In Sims 4 if I go out to a cafe or night club and then change households... All the same sims are always still there. I do this often. The thing I don't like is that if they travel to a Diff cafe or night club in a diff world.. All the same sims are Still there lol. They are stalking my sims
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,850 Member
    Karon wrote: »
    @Sk8rblaze its not about open world, its the story progression. Also, that was a problem in SIms 3 at some points, like when you visited a hot spot on town and there was like 2/3 sims at most, because all the rest of the town was at work or sleeping.
    I actually like that, sims having real duties. At nights the hot spots are quite busy because most sims don’t have any other obligations then. (I don’t like the hotspot system by the way because I don’t want the game to decide where the fun is, but that’s another story) I like it that when my sim calls someone and they say “no, I’m busy” or “no, I don’t feel like it”. Instead of them turning up like robots just because your sim wants it.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 1,522 Member
    In Sims 4 if I go out to a cafe or night club and then change households... All the same sims are always still there. I do this often. The thing I don't like is that if they travel to a Diff cafe or night club in a diff world.. All the same sims are Still there lol. They are stalking my sims

    Yeah that bothers me too. That's what makes the game world feel natural and like everything just revolves around my sim. It's reminds me of the Truman Show movie where literally everything was just there to create a false world for one guy.
  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
    edited February 12

    Sims 4 sims also have dream bubbles over their heads. The pop up on and off while they sleep. Usually random stuff. They also laugh or cry in their sleep depending on their mood.

    Sorry my point was that they have thought bubbles in S3 that represent things that happened to them that day or people they interacted with, things they want to do. Where in S4 is just random stuff really doesn't give them any personality or mean anything. The crying thing is a nice touch though but that plays more into the emotion system which again replaces personality in Sims 4 so that makes sense. They still don't cuddle though...
    In Sims 4 if I go out to a cafe or night club and then change households... All the same sims are always still there. I do this often. The thing I don't like is that if they travel to a Diff cafe or night club in a diff world.. All the same sims are Still there lol. They are stalking my sims

    Uh are you using mods? Because I've tried to do this a lot when I'm trying to get different sims together from different households and when my switched household arrives, yes ALL the sims that were previously there, ARE still there but only briefly (like 2 minutes) before they all leave and new sims take their place.

    This isn't fluke, watch after your new household arrives and you'll see everybody leave. HOWEVER I've never tried this with a cafe, mostly basegame community lots.

    You know I wonder if this reset actually only effects basegame lots and not expansion lots, they might have actually fixed this/altered this for newer community lots...although that seems like an odd oversight to make if they did.
  • Lady_BalloraLady_Ballora Posts: 302 Member
    I've lost all hope for Sims 4.....I've gone back to Angry Birds,Minecraft and the fun games on Neopets while I'm waiting for Sims and a Sims 1 reboot to be made.

  • TOLKIENTOLKIEN Posts: 1,380 Member
    I've lost all hope for Sims 4.....I've gone back to Angry Birds,Minecraft and the fun games on Neopets while I'm waiting for Sims and a Sims 1 reboot to be made.

    I'm not actually bashing Sims 4 as much as wishing they'd implement/change a few things to make it more "alive" and honestly I will always jump between both Sims 3 and Sims 4. I'd just love it before Sims 4 is "finished" receiving support that they update a few things such as I've posted in this topic before they move onto Sims 5...because I have a feeling with the suggestion of it being online and more restrictive then S4 - that I won't be buying it.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 2,250 Member
    edited February 12
    TOLKIEN wrote: »

    Sims 4 sims also have dream bubbles over their heads. The pop up on and off while they sleep. Usually random stuff. They also laugh or cry in their sleep depending on their mood.

    Sorry my point was that they have thought bubbles in S3 that represent things that happened to them that day or people they interacted with, things they want to do. Where in S4 is just random stuff really doesn't give them any personality or mean anything. The crying thing is a nice touch though but that plays more into the emotion system which again replaces personality in Sims 4 so that makes sense. They still don't cuddle though...
    In Sims 4 if I go out to a cafe or night club and then change households... All the same sims are always still there. I do this often. The thing I don't like is that if they travel to a Diff cafe or night club in a diff world.. All the same sims are Still there lol. They are stalking my sims

    Uh are you using mods? Because I've tried to do this a lot when I'm trying to get different sims together from different households and when my switched household arrives, yes ALL the sims that were previously there, ARE still there but only briefly (like 2 minutes) before they all leave and new sims take their place.

    This isn't fluke, watch after your new household arrives and you'll see everybody leave. HOWEVER I've never tried this with a cafe, mostly basegame community lots.

    You know I wonder if this reset actually only effects basegame lots and not expansion lots, they might have actually fixed this/altered this for newer community lots...although that seems like an odd oversight to make if they did.

    No, no mods. Not in most my saves. I do have one save with a foster care mod and mccc though. I switch also to get more ppl together and have no issues. I do add them to the group sometimes first but not always. As for the sleep thing, th makes sense. I'm not a fan of Sims 3 but there are things I like about it and that'd be a great addition too
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top