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5 Years and Still No Disabled Sims?

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    keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    Too controversial and I would be surprised if they added it in. Don't give up though because the religious barrier was clearly broken.
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    alanmichael1alanmichael1 Posts: 5,407 Member
    The problem is probably that creating Sims with physical disabilities (e.g. in wheelchairs) would require tons of animations if they were supposed to move in a realistic way and not to magically fly up the stairs or into the hot tub. On the other hand these efforts would bring very little specific gameplay. So as long as they don't even manage to give us spiral stairs I don't see that coming.
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    InuMiroLoverInuMiroLover Posts: 1,184 Member
    edited November 2019
    Here are some very likely scenarios that will happen should we get disabilities.

    "Disabled people are like 0.00000000000001% of the population, so why are they included? This is pandering and politics!"

    "My disability isnt here? Maxis clearly thinks I dont exist! I demand representation!"

    "I don't want representation! I have disabilities in real life and it stinks! I dont play the sims to be reminded of it!'

    I personally dont care whether or not we get disabilities. I just hope the devs are ready for the massive poopstorm that will erupt should they decide to go ahead with the decision.
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,098 Member
    I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone with my views and ideas, guess I'll just have to suck it up. So, any ideas about what my bundle should be? <shrug>

    I don't think you offended anyone. You offered up your ideas (and obviously put a lot of thought into it) and people have just responded with their own thoughts. That's what the forums are for. If anyone did get offended... that's just weird and their problem.
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
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    lisamwittlisamwitt Posts: 5,098 Member
    I do think some things could be implemented in the way of temporary issues, like broken arms or legs. Wheelchairs... sort of? I could see Sims being able to use them to move around, especially now that we are going to have bicycles. But there'd be a lot of kinks to work out, like do they stand up and put the wheelchair in their inventory when they encounter stairs?
    Gallery ID: LadyGray01
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    RouensimsRouensims Posts: 4,858 Member
    I would really like the option to include disabilities in my game. For those who don't want disabilities, it would be great if you could control whether or not townies could spawn with disabilities (although I would like them to).
    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
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    MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,759 Member
    This is a bit of a controversial topic back in 2018 they did mention it or at least Grant did. They had a design challenge and had to talk to simmers who use wheelchairs (could someone tell me the PC term to call them all the versions I can think of are inappropriate "wheelchair user"?) and were able to fix the problem. He suggest maybe a sim using a wheelchair who is visiting a friend who has stairs the stairs turn into a sort of escalator ramp. He also said the wheelchairs would be for all walkable ages not rescritied like Sims 3 canes. He suggested Simlish Sign Lanuage for deaf sims. (Just look up "Sims 4 + Grant" and you will see both stuff from Sims VIP and Sims Community which tell you this same stuff), he also said 1)mental illness wouldn't be traits and 2)it would be free. Also he want us differently-able simmers to contact them and talk to them about what makes us different so we're able to be represented in a good light.

    The only thing he actually didn't answer was if there would be "accidents" or not. I know that those of us with disabilities who actually want to have disabilities in the game (I know not all do) just want the option in CAS (and also the supports for them in the Sims' real world).
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    poltergeistpoltergeist Posts: 1,411 Member
    there are a lot of disabled simmers who don't want disability in game, it's a complicated issue.
    I thought I was coming from the right place but all the comments about disabilities being a touchy subject and how people really don't want them in their have shown me that I should just have kept my mouth shut about it.

    i want to clarify that it wasn't my intention to shut your opinion down, i was just answering the question of why ea hasn't touched the subject. because it is complicated and they are probably afraid.
    you are absolutely entitled to feeling the way you do and to posting about it, and there are other disabled simmers who agree with you and who want representation.
    personally, i am not disabled so i don't feel it's my place to say whether or not it should or shouldn't be included or to push for either. i don't want to speak over disabled simmers, and their comfort comes first over my personal preferences... but i do know i would definitely use the function if it were implemented.
    i am just hoping you aren't feeling attacked here or like you can't share your opinions/experiences because you absolutely can. 😟
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    SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,762 Member
    You know, one way to implement disabilities into the game would be in a pack like the Holiday one: free, downloadable, with the ability to not run it (since you can exclude specific packs when launching the game via Origin) even if people have it installed.

    There are reasons for including it, reasons against, reasons to be concerned about how it's done. And they're all valid. But having the *option* done in a way that it's entirely avoidable for those who have their own reasons for wanting to would be one way to do it.

    No matter what they do, there will always, inevitably, be people who won't be happy. There's no "right" and certainly no perfect when dealing with just about any topic like this. (there's still no ace/aro option for Sims technically, not without cheats) Hopefully if Sims ever has disabilities content included in-game, they'll do their research.
    avatar art: Loves2draw1812
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    BreeSashaBreeSasha Posts: 638 Member
    I like the idea but I think that it is certainly tricky to implement and also to pass through PR. EA would have to have doctors/psychologists on staff to help with the development of these disabilities so they are enabled accurately in the game and also to monitor if changes need to be made based on users' feedback. As a person with mental illness, I use the Sims to unwind and play light little fantasies. I personally wouldn't use these options but there can be a way to incorporate them.
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    SimmervilleSimmerville Posts: 11,688 Member
    I think it would be nice having temporary disabilities in the game, like a sim falling own the stairs and staying in hospital (in a wheelchair for that matter) for a simweek or so. Sim getting eye disease for a year, getting dizzy in sunshine if not wearing sunglasses, not being able to read or watch tv etc. Sim getting wounds from a fight that lasts a bot longer than 5 seconds, but not for the rest of their lives. I'd welcome more consequences in my game, also with some sims being all out of luck, but I don't want my sims to be disabled for longer than max a sim year. I think it would also be realistic if some of my oldest elders had some of those accidents eventually leading them to stay in bed for a longer period.

    Sims can catch an illness, but you can get rid of it within 30 sim minutes, and if you ignore it the disease will go away in a day or two. I'd like them to add some danger or challenge to it. Then again, we don't need to add every bit of realism to have a realistic game.
    Simmerville on Youtube | My blog is updated weekly: Simmerville's Sims<br>a.jpg
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    So_MoneySo_Money Posts: 2,536 Member
    edited November 2019
    The problem comes down to resources. Animating various physical disabilities and modelling the relevant objects (wheelchairs, for example) is undoubtedly time and cost prohibitive. It would require a lot of animation work, and not only in terms of general movement of a sim, but potentially in the way every object in the game is interacted with.
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    NoTalentNoTalent Posts: 384 Member
    You do have some really great ideas. I do agree that physical disabilities can and should be included in the game. Like seriously, this should have been added a while ago.

    However, I am a bit on the fence when it comes to mental disabilities. I have depression and I do enjoy having the trait "gloomy" in the game, but even that and the insanity trait can be really touchy. My nephew has autism, and I can imagine the traits that make him unique would come off poorly when placed in a game. Now I do like the idea of being able to manually type what disability the sim has like they included the write-in career. Then you could make the sim as unique as people really are. But I don't want to watch the game try to animate what someone with severe anxiety or autism does.

    As someone with autism, I do not want it in the game at all.

    Autism is such a wide spectrum that two autistic people are unlikely to be the same and/or share the same traits. With how limited and flawed the current Sims 4 personality is – as such, our Sims have zero personality – it would be impossible to genuinely implement autism and have it work correctly.

    I do not think the Sims could handle the bare minimum and the more profound traits. Poor social communication, misunderstanding social cues, lacking the understanding of emotions in other people, a strict routine that must be followed, hyper focusing on certain tasks, shutting down due to overload, and sensory issues. None of these could be done and are pretty much present in every autistic person, bar lack of empathy and/or understanding emotions as not everyone has that.

    They could implement it, but it would be done poorly and it would offend people. The people who it would offend are not people with autism, but people are offend on the behalf of people with autism.

    At the end of the day, I would not make my Sims autistic at all as I would not wish this on anyone, even pixel people who do not exist.

    As for depression, you just reminded me that this goes with autism perfectly as most autistic people suffer from severe depression, as well as OCD and ADD. The current system would not allow for this. We get three (which is pathetic) traits to give our Sims personality.

    I put gloomy more close to sadness than depression. Depression is a constant void that sucks the energy out of you and makes even the simplest tasks feel like a marathon. It is not a ‘sad moodlet every now and then’ it is more like a constant sad moodlet that never goes away and you just learn to work around it. You look out the window and see rain whereas someone else will see sunshine.

    Not discrediting your depression, of course, because much like autism, it is different in every person – hence how mental conditions are so hard to implement as they are different in each person – just stating that I think ‘gloomy’ is about 2.5% of depression.

    As for disabilities (of the physical kind) I cannot say I want them, either. Adding in a wheelchair means a whole new level of animations, limitations, and issues. The Sim could not reach the stove sitting in a wheelchair, could not go upstairs, and could not do a lot of stuff that is present in the game.

    I do like the idea that Elaineenicolee suggested, which is in the quote above, and that you can type in the disability and add a few traits to it, but I doubt it will ever be perfect and actively used outside of storytelling, which you do not need actual disabilities for.
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    kittykat97kittykat97 Posts: 61 Member
    @ShockJupiter I know it's not quite what you're looking for, but I've found a few mods/CC that add *some* disabilities/neurotypes to the game. I have BPD and "Aspergers" traits, and some CC that gives your sims prosthetic limbs. I really wish there were more options. Like, how nice would it be if they made a walkstyle that gives your sim a wheelchair? They'd have to overhaul animations for that walkstyle, and sims that interact with them, but it's not impossible.

    In fact, it'd be easy; if EA's CEO took a cut to his 18.3 million dollar salary and used it to pay his employees and dev studios, we'd get something a little more substantial than the hollow expansions they placate fans with now.
    Kat | 25 | they/them | KatJustice97 on the gallery (check CC enabled) | I have 3700+ hours logged in the Sims 4, well over half of it in CAS
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    NoTalentNoTalent Posts: 384 Member
    edited November 2019
    kittykat97 wrote: »
    @ShockJupiter I know it's not quite what you're looking for, but I've found a few mods/CC that add *some* disabilities/neurotypes to the game. I have BPD and "Aspergers" traits, and some CC that gives your sims prosthetic limbs. I really wish there were more options. Like, how nice would it be if they made a walkstyle that gives your sim a wheelchair? They'd have to overhaul animations for that walkstyle, and sims that interact with them, but it's not impossible.

    In fact, it'd be easy; if EA's CEO took a cut to his 18.3 million dollar salary and used it to pay his employees and dev studios, we'd get something a little more substantial than the hollow expansions they placate fans with now.

    Would you give your co-workers a cut of your salary? The answer is no and neither should the CEO. Each worker gets paid, they simply get assigned a budget for each game/DLC. The CEO salary is based on the value of EA stock and how much money they make. One year he could get 18.3 million, the next 15.8 million, then 7.9 million.
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    IrdiwenIrdiwen Posts: 574 Member
    NoTalent wrote: »
    The CEO salary is based on the value of EA stock and how much money they make. One year he could get 18.3 million, the next 15.8 million, then 7.9 million.

    That’s still quite a lot, isn’t it?
    Simmer since 2000! Sims 1, Sims, 2, Sims 3, Sims 4. Legacy player at heart.
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    ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited November 2019
    I agree CAS options for representing Sims that are differently abled. I suffer from both physical and mental health issues which go hand in hand with each other with my chronic conditions.

    As far as stats go 95% of the world's population has health issues, so no it is far from being a minority:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150608081753.htm

    Given how Maxis has partnered with Extra Life recently, it wouldn't look good for them as a business not representing them in the game and come off as highly hypocritical.

    I agree how it is approached is the real challenge. I have discussed this topic before with other Simmers ideas of CAS items. One Simmer suggested a rocket wheelchair to get around the routing issue with lots. That spawned the idea, why not a superhero pack? I mean comics have represented people with disabilities for years and often promoted good role models through them unlike things like carnivals that approach the subject in more critical ways. I know the game has many supernaturals that are an unique way to get disabilities in the game, but I know the need for a more realistic way to approach it too. Plus with the passing of Stan Lee, would be a nice way to remember him by.

    List of superheroes with disabilities:
    https://www.cbr.com/more-than-able-15-disabled-superheroes-who-inspire-us/

    Article how Marvel has more human characters than DC and why: https://rudermanfoundation.org/why-do-so-many-superheroes-have-disabilities/

    So as far as a few ideas and feel free to share more:
    1) Rocket wheelchair
    2) Sonar echo earbuds
    3) X-Ray/night vision glasses and eye patches
    4) Cane that turns into flame throwers or lightning hammers
    5) Steampunk bionic arms and legs of strength

    Oh while playing Minecraft, I noticed their creator creation included this too which is neat.
    https://www.pcgamer.com/minecrafts-new-character-creator-is-in-beta-and-you-can-try-it-out/

    Overwatch is probably the best example of representing disabilities in their game:
    http://www.firstpersonscholar.com/a-better-world/
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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    NoTalentNoTalent Posts: 384 Member
    Irdiwen wrote: »
    NoTalent wrote: »
    The CEO salary is based on the value of EA stock and how much money they make. One year he could get 18.3 million, the next 15.8 million, then 7.9 million.

    That’s still quite a lot, isn’t it?

    It is, but they work for it and a CEO is a position that can take decades to reach with educational requirements most people don't have.
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    HoveraelHoverael Posts: 1,230 Member
    Even if disabilities did come to this game, that jurassic era genology window will have to be updated regardless, in order for the game to keep track of all family members and extended family members by bloodlines, so if a distant relative and another distant relative want to marry and have children, the risks of developing disabilities in their children are a little higher than the usual chance percentage. the chances are signifcantly higher the closer the relation is in the family.

    There are thousands of disabilities from being infertile, all the way to crippling degenerative disorders. and there has to be different categories of severity as well as different chance rates on each,
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    SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    Yeah, I definitely thought we'd have seen wheelchairs by now. Don't give up hope!
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    CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    edited November 2019
    Sharonia wrote: »
    No offense meant to those that have disabilities or anything but I really don't want disabilities adding to the game. I play the Sims to escape reality and I'm just not looking for that much realism when I play.

    This.

    I have a disability but I am not offended because I play to escape. If I want that level of realism in my game, I wouldn't have bought vampires, ROM and I'll be honest, I basically only bought GTW for the aliens. :D

    I've already put out my thoughts on this matter in detail in another thread that discusses this and is currently active so I'm not going to repeat myself again here. I do understand where this OP is coming from and actually the ideas expressed here are pretty good, but the reality is that I doubt the sims team would flesh it out that much and it would end up more of a disappointment that what the actual disabled community is hoping for.
    Origin ID: Peapod79
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    MissyHissyMissyHissy Posts: 2,022 Member
    I suppose it's one of those things that, at the end of the day, boil down to demand for the idea and how to respect the customer's wishes. I mean, a lot of disabled simmers have stated their displeasure at the idea of disabilities being represented in the game and I can understand that. Something as light-hearted as the sims can, and frequently is, a wonderful escape from the things in life that drag you down. For many, a disability, either mental or physicial, can be exhausting and frustrating, so to have somewhere to go where that isn't a problem could, I would imagine, feel quite liberating. So I definitely understand that side. I struggle with anxiety and depression myself and I'd hate to see my sims suffer that way too. It's why I never use the gloomy trait myself.

    I do also understand those that want representation. I think the trick would be finding a way to incorporate all types of disabilities, something that I would think is very tricky to do.

    I wonder if maybe it's the kind of element that is best left for the talented modders and content creators to produce. Whatever EA decide to do will upset somebody, it's the way things are. If modders produce these features, there is likely to be less of a storm blow up, however it gets handled.

    For me, it's not a feature I'd use but I do understand why some would want their particular disability represented in the game. I simply question how much time, effort and re-working of exisiting gameplay mechanics would be needed to implement a feature that perhaps only a small percentage of simmers would use.
    *All my mods can be found on The Daily Plumbob*MiAqoAE.png
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    dearie_blossomdearie_blossom Posts: 707 Member
    Disabilities is a very sensitive topic... even within the disabled people community. Some disabled people want representation, some want to escape their reality. I‘d personally would like to have it in-game. Maybe disabilities could be turned off by default and when you create a disabled sim yourself you‘ll see other disabled townies?
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    MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,759 Member
    edited November 2019
    Did anyone look at what I said yesterday which I copied from Grant talking about the option in 2018? The quotes are what he mentioned.

    Wheelchairs
    stairs turn into escalator-ramp when a sim is using a wheelchair
    wheelchairs for all ages

    Deaf sims
    Simlish Sign Lanuage


    Mental Health
    wouldn't be traits

    Will it be Patch or Pack?
    We wouldn't be charged for it so it seem to be implied its a patch


    Other information:
    Want us disabled simmers to talk to them (health employees can only do so much to help) but its better for them to talk to us the "Differently able" to see how we live.
    Had some design challenges and had to talk to some simmers with wheelchairs to solve the problem

    What did he not answer?

    Weather there would be 'accidents' so either a)there might be or 2)they hadn't thought that far ahead.

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    BloosmooBloosmoo Posts: 754 Member
    OP you have some good ideas, it's coming from a good place, your opinion is valid and yes there are a lot of disabled people in the world, a world I hasten to add that still treats us like parasites rather than people (I live in the UK, we had made so much progress and then politics happened and we all went back to the dark ages in some cases.) So yes your ideas are great, but then again the Sims 4 can't include life states that are in the game well, so I doubt highly that disability is something they are going to want to tackle.

    All of this I've said in a previous discussion about disabilities in the sims and this is only my personal opinion and so it means really little in the scheme of things, but for the record, I get people wanting them in the game, really I do, but on a personal note no thanks. I am physically disabled and I can think of nothing more boring than having a sim stagger around one shop in Magnolia Promenade then go home and have to spend the rest of the day on the bed/sofa/floor. Constant trips to the doctor to be told hey we can cure you and then crushing disappointment when that sim sees the specialist and nope, not a thing they can do. Also, it's 11pm and there's a crazy party at the chateau would you like to come texts....and nope, can't do it it's raining can't move. This is a reality a lot of us want to escape from plus there's not enough to do in the Sims 4 hobbywise as it is, so that'd be go out, play wake the lama, go home. Go out, play chess, go home. Go out....oh....well there's a bubble blower lets get high and a moodlet for dazed from bubble blower mixing poorly with pain meds. Going to a bar and having people ask your sim pityingly why you need a chair, a walking aid when they are teens or YA's like being young is somehow being blessed with very rude good health. Better yet going to a counter in the bar or shop and having people talk to others your sim is with as though they don't exist because they aren't in their line of sight...or physically moving them out of the way! Another common experience would be getting out of the wheel chair and having some fool, declare that the sim is cured! It's a miracle! So kind of depressing as far as gameplay goes and if we have disabilities in game that are like those in real life, we also need an A-hat trait for other sims, so that we can play ourselves properly and all of the negative rubbish that goes with being disabled. (yes these A-hats really do exist and in their droves incase anyone was wondering)

    Having said all of that, if and it's a bit if, university is implementing some kind of representation with robotic limbs or walking frames, I'm all for that kind of game play because it doesn't physically stop you doing what you want to do. Heck, I'm totally down for a robotic exoskeleton in real life yes please. Representing it as a cartoon alternative is fine with me, but as gameplay based on real life goes, just not for me thanks.

    But while I don't want it, I do appreciate not everyone feels this way and I support their right to that opinion.
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