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Everyone should be worried (Strangerville discussion)
Aine
Posts: 3,043 Member
I'm gonna ask a serious question here, and this comes from the heart. Am I the only one that is worried about the franchise and where it's heading right now? The development for this game has had its ups and downs, but overall I've, until now, been cautiously hopeful that certain blunders were just bumps in the road, and that the dev team would be slowly making a course correction towards a higher quality of content. Even though I don't agree with everything they've done before, I always took it for what it was and enjoyed what I could, aswell as being incredibly loyal to this franchise that I love and have great hopes for.
But with packs like My Pet Stuff and especially now with Strangerville, I'm getting increasingly concerned about the trajectory of the game, and the frequent inconsistent quality of the packs. Some features are very well done, while others seems to be an afterthought, done with the bare minimum of resources. Now that the game is heading into rpg territory, it's easy to note that it's been done before in the Sims - YES that is true, but NEVER as the main focus in the main game. Spin offs having this focus in one thing, but Strangerville showcases a lot of the problems that the game has right now, one being the inconsistent quality control and funding. As much work as the dev team most likely put into this pack, the end result is all that matters, and if it's not compelling to the end user, meaning us simmers, then they shouldn't have done it the way they did. The best use of their resources is developing powerful sandbox storytelling tools that we can use in a multitude of ways - not in making a badly written click rpg mystery with no sandbox tools involved at all.
It absolutely baffles me that so many people seem to be okay with this development. A badly executed rpg element IS NOT the Sims. You can add rpg elements on top of the sandbox tools as icing on the cake, but it should NOT be the main focus of a pack. At least have some quality control and have someone that can actually write develop the story. This plum is just embarrassing for everyone involved.
Ofcourse you're allowed to like and enjoy it, nobody said otherwise, but you still shouldn't be okay with this pack, it's horribly bad for the franchise, because even if you liked it, many many people won't like it, and will get turned off from the game - cue Sims getting even LESS funding and resources and even MORE lazy packs like this, and it will dwindle into an actual garbage disaster.
If any of you care about the franchise and playing the Sims, you would screaming loudly at Maxis to get their plum together and give us some actual sandbox content - if they want to sprinkle some rpg stuff and storytelling on top of that, sure go ahead, we all love that plum. Just don't sell a tiny world, one lazyily done career and a click mystery that's done in 2 hours as one pack and call it a day. If any of you care about the sims, DO NOT be okay with this. Loving something doesn't always mean agreeing with it at all times or pretending everything is sunshine and rainbows. The franchise needs it's fans right now, not your wallet.
Everyone should be worried about the state of the game right now, because it's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. Even if you liked the pack, at some point even you sunshine and rainbow simmers will notice the dwindling quality and find yourself having spent hundreds on a game that in the end isn't what you hoped for. Meanwhile the rest of us is mourning a franchise that could have been so amazing - but instead we get a pack like this.
Enjoying the game and this pack doesn't mean you can't criticize it or be worried about the future of the game. Not liking the pack doesn't mean you can't enjoy aspects of the game still and root for the game to get better.
We all have one thing in common, and it's that we LOVE the Sims. And the fact that Maxis released this pack in the state it is in is NOT OKAY. It's okay to say it, we love the game and we care about it, and we care about the dev team and everyone working so hard on it. This plum is NOT OKAY.
But with packs like My Pet Stuff and especially now with Strangerville, I'm getting increasingly concerned about the trajectory of the game, and the frequent inconsistent quality of the packs. Some features are very well done, while others seems to be an afterthought, done with the bare minimum of resources. Now that the game is heading into rpg territory, it's easy to note that it's been done before in the Sims - YES that is true, but NEVER as the main focus in the main game. Spin offs having this focus in one thing, but Strangerville showcases a lot of the problems that the game has right now, one being the inconsistent quality control and funding. As much work as the dev team most likely put into this pack, the end result is all that matters, and if it's not compelling to the end user, meaning us simmers, then they shouldn't have done it the way they did. The best use of their resources is developing powerful sandbox storytelling tools that we can use in a multitude of ways - not in making a badly written click rpg mystery with no sandbox tools involved at all.
It absolutely baffles me that so many people seem to be okay with this development. A badly executed rpg element IS NOT the Sims. You can add rpg elements on top of the sandbox tools as icing on the cake, but it should NOT be the main focus of a pack. At least have some quality control and have someone that can actually write develop the story. This plum is just embarrassing for everyone involved.
Ofcourse you're allowed to like and enjoy it, nobody said otherwise, but you still shouldn't be okay with this pack, it's horribly bad for the franchise, because even if you liked it, many many people won't like it, and will get turned off from the game - cue Sims getting even LESS funding and resources and even MORE lazy packs like this, and it will dwindle into an actual garbage disaster.
If any of you care about the franchise and playing the Sims, you would screaming loudly at Maxis to get their plum together and give us some actual sandbox content - if they want to sprinkle some rpg stuff and storytelling on top of that, sure go ahead, we all love that plum. Just don't sell a tiny world, one lazyily done career and a click mystery that's done in 2 hours as one pack and call it a day. If any of you care about the sims, DO NOT be okay with this. Loving something doesn't always mean agreeing with it at all times or pretending everything is sunshine and rainbows. The franchise needs it's fans right now, not your wallet.
Everyone should be worried about the state of the game right now, because it's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. Even if you liked the pack, at some point even you sunshine and rainbow simmers will notice the dwindling quality and find yourself having spent hundreds on a game that in the end isn't what you hoped for. Meanwhile the rest of us is mourning a franchise that could have been so amazing - but instead we get a pack like this.
Enjoying the game and this pack doesn't mean you can't criticize it or be worried about the future of the game. Not liking the pack doesn't mean you can't enjoy aspects of the game still and root for the game to get better.
We all have one thing in common, and it's that we LOVE the Sims. And the fact that Maxis released this pack in the state it is in is NOT OKAY. It's okay to say it, we love the game and we care about it, and we care about the dev team and everyone working so hard on it. This plum is NOT OKAY.
Allons-y!
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Post edited by Aine on
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Comments
I couldn't agree more with your post.
Honestly, it's kinda creepy there's this PUSH to be happy, to no complain, to be thankful, etc. I believe it's only by criticizing the game and the direction of the franchise that we can actually improve it for the better. I also hate when some people say "don't like it, don't buy it." It's a false dichotomy fallacy).
The Sims 4 is honestly wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. Most features don't really have much depth to them. Clubs could be one feature that's actually good and expansive, but that's one of the few I can think of.
And it's only going to get worse as they keep adding more and more content to such a limited engine. They really need to ramp up development of The Sims 5. I just can't see TS4 lasting for 3 more years with mediocre content like StrangerVille. But who knows, there's a lot of blind fanboyism going on in here so I wouldn't be surprised if some people buy absolutely anything. No joke I read some people saying they're buying this GP just to avoid getting the "Missing objects" pop-up. I have no words to describe how shocked I am.
Leave spin offs to be spin offs. If this does well and we get more content like this I will happily uninstall. The sims 4 has always been more linear than I would like but the game forcing its story on you (and it is as if you don’t want the weirdness you have to play it) is not a sandbox, it’s a poor man RPG attempt. (And I love RPG’s )
I've never cared for rpg type games, and have always considered the sandbox style of the sims to be something special, as I'm NOT a gamer, yet I've spent hundreds on the sims over the years and have happily let it become my escapism from the drags of real life/one of my favourite hobbies.
I understand that people don't just want a groundhog day-esque repeat of the same thing over and over, but to a large extent, isn't that what the sims is? if you compare all the add ons for sims 2 and sims 3, what they did in 3 was for the most part the same as 2, but they went about it in the right way; by further developing the themes of the packs with greater detail than before, and yes, they added new features here and there, but in line with that concept of expanding on the previous itineration. For example, the playerable, createable supernaturals in sims 3 expanded on the npc supernaturals & witches of sims 2.
I think they went about it in the right way with sims 4 seasons, especially the calendar - they took the idea of seasonal holidays from sims 3 and made they fully customisable by the player. Even there though, seasons isn't perfect; how come they could add snow piles but not snow depth? and also, there was no mist or fog in sims 4 seasons, which brings me on to my next point.
I can only speculate, but compared to sims 3, it seems that sims 4 packs have a lower budget, and maybe new, not-so-sandbox packs are an attempt to foster greater interest in sims 4 (maybe from the rpg community, which let's face it, is big) to generate more revenue.
@MidnightAura I'm not opposed to some rpg elements in the sims, but those should be as a bonus sprinkled on top of solid storytelling sandbox tools.
@BabySquare Yes, it's worrying that the devs doens't seem to have enough resources to make a better pack. And it shows they are not used to developing for rpg storytelling - at least make the story compelling and detailed with many interactions and even different outcomes!
People may well look at this thread and think 'whoa, hold on, it's just one pack chill out', and it might just be the one pack, or it could be the start of a process away from the sandbox style, you never know.
Plus I think it's important for the devs to have this feedback.
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@Cabelle1863 Yes, I think it's time we start to talk seriously about this stuff, because we all KNOW the unlimited potential the Sims has as a concept and as a franchise. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that they aren't giving us fully fledged sasndbox tools with a lot more customization.
The pack was good... while it lasted. I finished the mystery in just 3 hours! I don’t see myself ever playing it again. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth.
I spent months, if not years, standing up for The Sims 4, but enough is enough. The SimGurus need to realize that they are not pleasing their fans, and they never will if we go on pretending everything is awesome.
And it’s not just Strangerville. Look at Get Famous, for example! The world is the same size as Strangerville, which is a gamepack world! The actor career is repetitive and the celebrity sightings have become straight-up annoying at this point. I’m finding it hard to include celebrities in my normal gameplay because it’s hard to become and stay famous outside of acting and media production.
If this keeps up, I’ll forget my dream of joining their team, and just aim to be self-employed instead. There’s one more thing I want to say, but I’m putting it in a spoiler since it involves Strangerville’s plot...
I hope they find a way to add everything for Sandbox that players feel is important for their game. I also hope they continue to add new story game packs for those that enjoy that style.
I do think they need to add an option in any future game packs that includes a story, the ability to turn the story off.
Most come to forums and are vocal when they are not happy with a product. There are many that are happy with a product and do not bother letting others know.
I hope my text does not sound mean. I really hope everyone gets packs and items they wish for in the future.
When you look back on the sims 3 base game world of Sunset Valley and how many lots it had, this quickly becomes very depressing. I do suspect this is down to budget cuts.
That would be great. : )
I can understand concerns, though my reasons may be different. The main issue I'm seeing is that, quite frankly, the pack is difficult to talk about. Maybe that will change as time goes on, but I think it's kind of a curveball for the sims community, who is generally accustomed to being able to talk about content in great detail once it's all out there (and it usually is displayed in detail when released, if not a little before).
On the surface, it doesn't look like the style of it is much different from Jungle Adventure (maybe a bit more narrative-heavy). But Jungle Adventure, to my knowledge, didn't have spoilers because it didn't have a set narrative. It was a theme park, but without any major secrets. I was not paying attention closely when it was released, so I could be wrong about it, but that is how it comes across to me.
This type of storytelling (with spoilers) is nothing new under the sun, but it's normally in the context of things like movies and TV shows released nationwide, or globally, to a broad audience. Strangerville is a niche pack style within a niche game (The Sims 4) in a niche franchise, in a niche genre of video games. Video games are fairly mainstream entertainment now, but The Sims as a genre seems to be pretty narrow still. It is possible that they are attempting to expand its reach with a pack of this style, but I suppose this is where the concerns of an abandonment of the formula come from.
Anyway, the point of the emphasis on niche within niche within niche is that one of the things that helps along stories with spoilers, normally, is the power of word of mouth from people you know and trust to tell you that it's worth experiencing and paying for, without needing to spoil the details in the process. For example, the TV show Stranger Things (which, incidentally, the pack was partly inspired by I assume) was recommended to me by a member of my family and without that recommendation, it's possible I may never have bothered to give it a look. With that in mind, it's unlikely that someone like myself is going to jump at the pack without hearing from a trusted source that it's worth it. And the problem is, where can these trusted sources be found? Apart from word of mouth, TV shows and movies typically have reviewers to turn to, some of whom have dedicated their entire life's work to critically analyzing the medium and delivering takes that dissect the product succinctly and clearly in a way that puts forth bias upfront and helps people decide whether it's worth paying for.
The sims, as a community, doesn't really have something like this in place. Much of the reviewing culture revolves around something I touched on earlier - talking about all of the details. Whether it's going through all of CAS and build mode, or discussing gameplay, it's usually the go-to strategy for approaching reviewing due in part to the sheer amount of little details to cover in each pack. But that can't properly be done this time around. Some of the objects are apparently only available in buy debug and contain spoilers (who knows how many if you don't own the pack). Some of the outfits seem to be available from the career or something and who knows if those might contain spoilers too.
And then there's the gameplay itself, which is the core of the issue when it comes to spoilers and getting information. Even an overview of the gameplay could end up giving spoilers, depending on how it's all structured.
From the standpoint of marketing and sales, this pack's greatest strength may prove to be its undoing. The secrecy and strangeness is great for building hype, but will it work for those who aren't early adopters? I'm concerned that it's going to be a sort of black hole in the larger conversation about the sims, where the cost for conversing about it is either giving up the possibility of enjoying it as intended by reading spoilers, or paying $20 (or whatever your price tag is adjusted for currency differences in your country).
How can the sims team even gauge properly whether it's worth doing a pack like this again if it's so difficult to talk about its features? They can go off of sales figures, but those alone may not yield insight, as there may be a lot of people who choose to pay upfront with the newness of the "mystery" appeal and then go play other games and don't stick around to buy more packs.
I can also say that this affects me as a modder, which is the part of the sims community that I am most distinctively a part of. Do I look through the resources for things that might be interesting to mod or utilize, even if it spoils the story for me, were I to get it and play it? Do I hold off and just try to ignore the pack entirely and avoid various conversations about the game, until I've decided whether I want to try it? And looking at it from the possible perspective of modders in general, what if I'm a modder who can't afford to participate in it? Then the question becomes all the more difficult.
One thing that communities for a TV show have in common is that they are all on the same page, even with regard to spoilers. This pack being optional has the potential to splinter the community in terms of conversations, due to the secrecy surrounding it and the appeal that surrounds going into it with little information about it.
I will remain cautiously neutral about the whole thing, as I don't really feel strongly about any of it. I just thought I'd voice some thoughts that were mulling around during some downtime.
Everywhere you go, people beg and beg for Witches and University and Grant has stated multiple times that they are aware, but according to a person on the forum, Grant pitched the idea of a story-driven pack like Strangerville and apparently, most were against it. But they did it anyway and so far, the pack's reception seems to be pretty mixed. So I say Witches, University, and whatever else people have been requesting should've come out first, not Strangerville.
I just don't understand why exactly the most heavily requested (which would also mean packs that would sell well) packs aren't being prioritized. Why did Strangerville come out first? Why wasn't the next GP Witches or Werewolves?
Of course, the Devs did listen with Seasons, but still... it just seems strange to me that they did a pack unlike many previous packs as opposed to a pack that they know, especially if done right, that people would enjoy instead of suddenly taking a risk. Points to them for trying, though, although I can't say the same for the items and the way the world was constructed.
And they also say they know about what we want, but then what's preventing them from doing it? At least give a reason, you know?
It kind of reminds me of the "vote for the stuff pack" thing a while back. There seemed to be quite a bit of interest in some of the other options, but they still went with laundry. I don't mind the laundry pack, it's really nice. And some of the decor and clothing was from the voting. But it bothered me that there was all this voting for features and the vibe of "your opinion matters!" yet they still went with the pack idea that one of the gurus (Graham?) said he really wanted to do. I never understood why they didn't just do the laundry pack he wanted, and then have the "you vote" type of pack.
It kind of gives the impression, perhaps unintended, that even if they listen it doesn't matter because they're going to go with what they want to do. They can't even tell us if the packs we want will ever happen, due to the "can't discuss future content" thing. But it does come across a bit as if we've been led on when they seem to actively solicit our wants, then they do something else.
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I think it's weird when sims cant wash their clothes. It's like having no cars. Its basic life things that bring realness into the game. Although the interactions in sims 3 laundry were better. They actually put soap in. Also, homes need a laundry room, we all have them or at least one on the premises. I think it's essential for a life simulation game. And if you're playing without cheats, you can actually make good money searching pockets lol.
Why they couldn't have done all the packs in the poll instead of the other ones we have I do not know. They were all very good ideas then just vanished.
@soko37 If they give us the sandbox tools that we all dream of, then a boss fight would be cool, because we could use it the way we wanted. Nothing is out of the question in a Sims game as long as it's a toolbox and not a pre written script.
@citysimmer They can definitely do a storyline like this, they just have to include more in depth gameplay, a sandbox toolbox that gives us more control over our games. It's really as simple as that.