I think what I'm getting out of this is some people just have vastly different standards for what quality graphics are, possibly due to differences on a basic eyesight or memory level. I mean, I actually prefer graphics that are as realistic as possible and I can be pretty high-standards about certain graphical annoyances, like combining colors the wrong way. I just don't expect highest levels of realism possible to happen for this series due to the performance requirements it would lay on. But I've also played games like this long enough that my brain somehow knows to switch certain filters on/off and it doesn't take long for me to play before I see it as perfectly normal and barely notice the difference. Maybe it's a memory thing, somewhat. When I'm playing this game, I'm not sitting there thinking about how dumb it would look next to a game like The Witcher 3. Other versions of graphics aren't in my head at all.
There's usually a brief period of adjustment where I notice if I've been playing a game with starkly different graphics a lot. But then I adjust and stop noticing.
I definitely have limits though. If I went to a game that is old enough, with dated enough graphics, I'd probably have a hard time stopping noticing.
With this game, maybe it's just a thing particular to some brains and that's why this whole line of discussion is confusing to me. Cause with TS4, it seems that for whatever reason, despite not being high realism, the style is done in such a way that I largely forget that it matters to me at all. I don't know that that would work if I went back and tried 2 or 3, having never played them before.
What confuses me in this discussion, is that I’m in fact pretty much the same (bold). I’ve played Sims 3 on medium settings for years and looking back - looking at old pictures - I really have no idea how I managed to not care (I do care now by the way, couldn’t play the game on anything else than on highest settings anymore). It confuses me because it means I genuinely am trying to understand what people mean here concerning Sims 4 being that much different than Sims 1, 2 or 3 in this respect. Presenting it like it’s something new in this franchise (the realistic stylized approach) when it’s not. Sims 1, 2 ánd 3 are realistic stylized (be it with a different art style). As far as I can see the only difference is, that Sims 4 got rid of the ‘realistic’ by turning cartoony and simplifying the art style. Making it less ‘noisy’ like one of the devs once called it (referring to texture). Sims 2 looks outdated for me where it comes to the style of the sims, Sims 3 looks totally fine to me though I regret the limitations of CAS sometimes. But I’ve regretted that from the get go and it hasn’t got anything to do with the art style.
@Neia The error in this line of thought, is that realistic doesn't necessarily mean "what we all watch daily". Apparently people are confusing realism and photorealism, Sims has never been about photorealism (I don't need those legs to be any more realistic than that). I think I'm starting to understand what people mean now though. The thought here is that graphics matter more with a realistic approach. Truth is, Sims 4 is not going to get away with that. People have been complaining about squirrels and clouds and grass and rocks like chewed gum from the get go. Even when a game isn't (photo)realistic, people apparently have some standards Sims 4 doesn't meet. "But it's meant to be realistic stylized" really is no excuse for poor quality (which this whole 'it will age well' is beginning to sound like for me).
And yet in this type of game more realism does kind of mean more photorealistic no? I personally agree that TS4 is definitely not on the level of Pixar, but it clearly aims for a similar art style which, yes, is a bit more timeless than realistic (or photorealistic) styles. Not necessarily because the graphics in cartoony styles don't matter, but because our ability to create more and more realistic looking games is just constantly evolving in only one pre-defined direction, and as we get closer to it, most games that try to resemble reality the closest actually age the worst.
Because if you look at them with today's capabilities in mind, they really don't look all that good - visually at least (fortunately for old movies, however, CGI sometimes creates such low attention to detail and overall care that some old movies' attempt at realistically representing the real, extraordinary or impossible is actually far more timeless and sometimes more realistic - think Stanley Kubrick or even the old Star Wars movies ... but that aside ).
So if the sims 3 is viewed as part of an evolution starting from TS1, you do get the impression that they've aimed at making the sims and their environments increasingly more (photo-)realistic. And with the old games in mind, TS3 does look very realistic. But compared to today's standards, it's already starting to look a bit dated, even if it still looks great. 10 years from now, it will be even worse. TS4 won't be exposed to that comparison quite as much, simply because it breaks with that sims tradition and goes for a style that is purposefully cartoony and unrealistic. Surely cartoony styles evolve too, just like our ability to create ever more highly stylized cartoony games in general.
But: there are still a lot of games coming out with a pixelated art style for example. You'd consider that unnecessary and dated too, because we can make much better looking games now. But we don't: in this unrealistic realm, styles get repurposed over and over again. You don't see that happening much with styles that really really aim for more real world-like realism (especially computer generated realism). Graphics themselves still matter just as much for both, like increasing our technical ability continues to make these styles evolve and improve over time, but not at the same rate and not with the same standards in mind.
That aside I agree with you that using cartoony styles shouldn't be an excuse for delivering lazy or shoddy work and I'm glad they decided to, for instance, give us the lighting update, the improved ball pit and soon, finally a color wheel in CAP. I think this kind of stuff (and a free world, toddlers, supernaturals, pets, family play) is also what the OP meant with the devs ARE listening (just to get back on topic for a second ). In the end, this discussion keeps rearing its head because most people that hate the graphics don't really like TS4 in general. And they're inclined to overlook such patches and content altogether because of what they personally consider to be the end of the series.
I just don't think in some cases it's really the art style that bothers people, but the whole game. And the lack of realism, then, is just the icing on an already poisoned cake (not necessarily talking about you here, just drifting off lol). I also don't mean to say they overlook them on purpose because they hate the game and want it to be bad now. Seriously, everyone will never like this game (just like many people hated 3). And in the end, that's alright. Still doesn't mean that devs aren't listening to anyone at all of course (no, you didn't say that I know, just a general statement).
Not for me, no. I remember proudly sharing pictures of Shang Simla with my dad once (they’d been to China so I wanted to share some of my beautiful China pics of places they’d been to in real life). His reaction was rather disdainful and later he showed me why (I really couldn’t understand why he didn’t love those pictures the way I did haha): he was used to Tomb Raider. I never needed that, I in fact like a Sims game having an actual art style, making things look slightly more colourful and pretty than real life. All I’d want would be TS2/TS3 art style but a bit better. And I’d want realism in behaviour and posture. I’d be over the moon with sims like this:
Where it comes to realism, I’m especially bothered by the exaggerated behaviour of sims in 4 (it just fails to represent humanity for me, it’s too far off; I open my game to take some pictures of their legs and I am immediately totally turned off by their insane giggling without any reason) and everything looking like rubber. And a lot of stuff really looks awful for some reason not related to the game being cartoony or stylized. I expected an improvement in that department compared to Sims 3, but I never expected photorealism myself. I’ve seen examples of other game (I forgot the names unfortunately) that perfectly represent what I expected. So I know it’s possible
@JoAnne65 yeah I understand that. I'm also a fan of slightly unrealistic realism lol. But I know how annoying their little grins can be sometimes. I find that it bothers me far less now though, because I enjoy the content more & I feel the emotions have been fine-tuned a little better. Plus, thanks to the no happy buff from environment mod, at least their negative emotions come out more and when they're angry or sad or whatever, they definitely don't smile & tend to stay in that negative mood longer. Before that mod & before the CL patch, however, I was also pretty annoyed by them always, always, always being so happy. It's as you say: not realistic. And I agree that next to a realistic or photorealistic style, normal "realism" is definitely something simmers want: real emotions, real wants / fear, real life things like having kids and having them gradually age, etc. etc. That's of course a whole other discussion, and it's something TS4 suffered from very, very badly up until recently. And I find they're adding more and more normal, realistic stuff back into the game. So yeah, I'm less bothered by it now. But I get that some people still are & that this annoyance also translates to their feelings on this slightly off-beat design where textures aren't always as detailed as they ought to be. I guess what I'm saying is that to some extent this will always be in TS4 due to the design choices they've made. And not everyone has to like that (I'm also not saying I wouldn't like other types of design, or that I'm not fond of the grittiness of TS3 cause I actually am - ideally I want a mix of both, or rather, the ability to decide whether you want more animated/cartoony or gritty/more realistic environments). However: the textures have improved and I agree, they have to keep on improving cause you're right, again, that a cartoony style isn't an excuse for laziness
The problem for me wasn't that lovely realistic hair, but the way the hair didn't match the face. Not that faces weren't good, but they weren't as good, and sometimes it weirded me out a bit. Sims 4 hair can be a little disappointing sometimes, but the faces never weird me out.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
Yes, after you said: I don't think the argument is so much that "cartoon = ages well." It's that there's a particular style of art used in multiple games (this being one) that I believe has been called "stylized realism." I used none cartoony stylized examples the second time - and I said I did so I don’t understand your remark? - to show that stylized realism ages as well. This opposed to the assumption “Sims 4 has a simple, cartoony style that means it will age well”. Cartoon and simple style don’t age well at all. They become old fashioned pretty fast.
I guess I misread. I'm very confused as to what the argument is at this point. Stylized realism is a term I remember for a game that uses a similar style to TS4. If it's just some all-encompassing term for a super broad style, then I guess I'm using terminology wrong.
I don't see how the style we're talking about (a style like TS4's style, which I believe is similar, if not the same, to the Pixar style and to the style of games like SWTOR) is aging fast. A Bug's Life (a Pixar movie) came out in 1998. Finding Dory (one of the most recent Pixar movies) came out in 2016. That's almost two decades. If you google pictures of the movies, the style looks about the same. And it's showing no sign that I've seen of being considered dated or out of fashion. Even if you were to disagree that this game's style is the same as Pixar, the evidence of Pixar's success is still an indication that their particularly cartoon style is aging just fine. So a blanket argument that "cartoon and simple style don’t age well at all", I just don't see it.
The 'trigger' of the argument was the OP's observation “Sims 4 has a simple, cartoony style that means it will age well”. I have read that before but I don't understand what it means. To me it sounds like a catchy oneliner that's used as a truism, but is it (true I mean). And in fact the confusion here is one of the reasons I'm wondering if this is in any way true. Because indeed, what are people referring to when they claim this? The cartoony art style, or the stylized style? There is a difference. This is definitely cartoony, but the texture is realistic:
This is not cartoony, the approach is realistic, but it is stylized:
Both cartoony and stylized are very sensitive to becoming dated, because they represent a certain approach, it's hardly ever timeless. You can often tell when it was created. Which as such isn't a bad thing by the way, I like both cartoony and stylized, though not in my Sims game. But I simply don't understand the oneliner, because I find it's quite the opposite. Realism is much more timeless than cartoon because as Paul Newman shows (or a realistic drawing of Paul Newman), people basically looked exactly the same back in the sixties as they do now, hairstyle and clothing aside.
Pixar indeed has the same approach as they did 20 years ago, which means an art style with great detail and awesome textures. Presenting cartoon as if it's real. In no way do I see that back in Sims 4. If I may compare the 2009 game to the 2014 game here:
Please explain to me how the legs on the left look dated because they look like real legs and the legs on the right do not because they look like asparagus?
It's difficult to say how a game ages. You have to remember what you thought when you first saw its graphics and then compare it to what's available today. When Sims 2 was released, its graphics were considered great. Certainly a huge jump forward from Sims 1. Compared to Sims 3 and 4 though, it looks really weak. The eyes are always the first thing to go.
Compare Team Fortress 2 to today's graphics, and TF2 has held up rather well. Sure, nobody says it's photorealistic. And it's not perfect. But you don't feel so torn because the 'then' and the 'now'. And that's what Sims 4 seems to have gone for. Rather than approaching the Uncanny Valley head on, the graphics have taken a step sideways, rather than forward, and with the power of the strongest CAS yet in the palm of our sliders, there really is more potential.
There is a huge spectrum between a step back (not sideways, also in comparison to Sims 2) and uncanny valley. I find it rather odd that delivering a poor job is sold as a good thing because you won't notice in the end it was a poor job. First, it doesn't work because people do see it.
And second: give me awesome now, by the time it starts looking outdated I'll settle for new awesomeness. "Let's aim really low, in order to not fall so deep in the end."
@JoAnne65 yeah I understand that. I'm also a fan of slightly unrealistic realism lol. But I know how annoying their little grins can be sometimes. I find that it bothers me far less now though, because I enjoy the content more & I feel the emotions have been fine-tuned a little better. Plus, thanks to the no happy buff from environment mod, at least their negative emotions come out more and when they're angry or sad or whatever, they definitely don't smile & tend to stay in that negative mood longer. Before that mod & before the CL patch, however, I was also pretty annoyed by them always, always, always being so happy. It's as you say: not realistic. And I agree that next to a realistic or photorealistic style, normal "realism" is definitely something simmers want: real emotions, real wants / fear, real life things like having kids and having them gradually age, etc. etc. That's of course a whole other discussion, and it's something TS4 suffered from very, very badly up until recently. And I find they're adding more and more normal, realistic stuff back into the game. So yeah, I'm less bothered by it now. But I get that some people still are & that this annoyance also translates to their feelings on this slightly off-beat design where textures aren't always as detailed as they ought to be. I guess what I'm saying is that to some extent this will always be in TS4 due to the design choices they've made. And not everyone has to like that (I'm also not saying I wouldn't like other types of design, or that I'm not fond of the grittiness of TS3 cause I actually am - ideally I want a mix of both, or rather, the ability to decide whether you want more animated/cartoony or gritty/more realistic environments). However: the textures have improved and I agree, they have to keep on improving cause you're right, again, that a cartoony style isn't an excuse for laziness
Yes, I agree with everything you're basically saying here. I also have the mod you're referring to by the way but haven't seriously played TS4 yet after I've installed it. I'm glad to read it does make a difference.
As for the clothing, well now they get that we need more kids and men's clothes, and for the clothes to be VARIED, not just a million styles of trousers.
I will have to disagree with this one they gave females double the clothing once again and as if that was not bad enough they went and gave us a bonus female outfit from the original art work but managed to not do the same for the male outfit... kids only got 1 outfit each boys just getting a single shirt female Sims got 8 clothing options
Second, have you noticed we get less chairs? The Devs mentioned that the wicker chairs - all types - got enough votes. But they cut out one style to make room for other objects.
If anything they should of learned since the chairs all got enough votes that people really love their chairs... I'm not one of them voted for none of the chairs
Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
As for the clothing, well now they get that we need more kids and men's clothes, and for the clothes to be VARIED, not just a million styles of trousers.
I will have to disagree with this one they gave females double the clothing once again and as if that was not bad enough they went and gave us a bonus female outfit from the original art work but managed to not do the same for the male outfit... kids only got 1 outfit each boys just getting a single shirt female Sims got 8 clothing options
Second, have you noticed we get less chairs? The Devs mentioned that the wicker chairs - all types - got enough votes. But they cut out one style to make room for other objects.
If anything they should of learned since the chairs all got enough votes that people really love their chairs... I'm not one of them voted for none of the chairs
Hey, there were three types of chairs to vote for. Chairs are going to end up there as a result. But we don't get ALL the chairs that made it. Some of those chairs were cut. We don't need more than one type of chair per pack.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Gotta give an Uh-Oh for the rising specs for Cats&Dogs. It's hard to know who to feel more sorry for; all the people who won't be able to play Cats&Dogs because they can't afford the upgrade, or for EA when people buy it and call them up on Tech screaming in rage that they can't play it because they didn't check specs properly.
Uh-Oh, indeed. On both sides.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
What confuses me in this discussion, is that I’m in fact pretty much the same (bold). I’ve played Sims 3 on medium settings for years and looking back - looking at old pictures - I really have no idea how I managed to not care (I do care now by the way, couldn’t play the game on anything else than on highest settings anymore). It confuses me because it means I genuinely am trying to understand what people mean here concerning Sims 4 being that much different than Sims 1, 2 or 3 in this respect. Presenting it like it’s something new in this franchise (the realistic stylized approach) when it’s not. Sims 1, 2 ánd 3 are realistic stylized (be it with a different art style). As far as I can see the only difference is, that Sims 4 got rid of the ‘realistic’ by turning cartoony and simplifying the art style. Making it less ‘noisy’ like one of the devs once called it (referring to texture). Sims 2 looks outdated for me where it comes to the style of the sims, Sims 3 looks totally fine to me though I regret the limitations of CAS sometimes. But I’ve regretted that from the get go and it hasn’t got anything to do with the art style.
For what it's worth, it doesn't make much sense to me either. Probably would be an interesting area of study, how peoples' opinions on graphics form and change over time and the like.
I mean, back years ago (feels like ancient history now) I was playing this emulator for the old Star Wars Galaxies. Which is more or less a realistic style, as I recall, just very dated in its polygon count and the like. Back then, I had a very negative view of anything cartoony in a game. Star Wars: The Old Republic was coming out and I was curious about it because I was into the idea of a solid, modern Star Wars MMO. But I hated how the graphics looked. It was jarring and I couldn't imagine playing a Star Wars MMO that looked so cartoony.
Nonetheless, I gave the game a try in beta and then years after its release, got into for probably a good year of solid play; after that, I became much more accepting of the style. Somewhere in that there was an interlude where I was playing a much earlier version of this game and I was pretty ok with the graphics (or I got used to it, at least).
Jump to present and I barely notice anymore. There's still a small part of me that wishes for a more up-to-date realistic graphics for TS4, but on the whole, I don't give it much thought.
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Speaking of art style (saw some posts about it above ^^^), I would love for Sims 5 to look like Sims 4, but more detailed. Not more realistic. Detailed.
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I don't come to the forums to vote or to read about SPs for TS4. But I have been interested in the Sims games for 13 yrs and visited the forums to get the latest news about them. In recent years it has been mostly to find out in which direction they are changing and to see if some of them still are interesting enough for me too. I still play the Sims Freeplay and maybe later I will be playing the Sims Mobile and TS5 too. So I also come to the forums to see in which direction TS4 is developing and if EA can be expected to focus even more on SPs instead of the bigger expansions with more gameplay. But as everybody should be able to see EA doesn't attempt to make the game more advanced like all us experienced simmers would have preferred. Instead EA still just want the game to be simple for new simmers and to focus on cheaper and smaller expansions like all the SPs. We just don't know how this will be in the future and which new sidegames EA will make too. So I visit the forums to see if I can find more clues and information about it.
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I don't come to the forums to vote or to read about SPs for TS4. But I have been interested in the Sims games for 13 yrs and visited the forums to get the latest news about them. In recent years it has been mostly to find out in which direction they are changing and to see if some of them still are interesting enough for me too. I still play the Sims Freeplay and maybe later I will be playing the Sims Mobile and TS5 too. So I also come to the forums to see in which direction TS4 is developing and if EA can be expected to focus even more on SPs instead of the bigger expansions with more gameplay. But as everybody should be able to see EA doesn't attempt to make the game more advanced like all us experienced simmers would have preferred. Instead EA still just want the game to be simple for new simmers and to focus on cheaper and smaller expansions like all the SPs. We just don't know how this will be in the future and which new sidegames EA will make too. So I visit the forums to see if I can find more clues and information about it.
I am really starting to get annoyed about this argument. No offense. But are people really pretending TS3 didn't have a lot of stuff, both in the form of (more expensive) stuff packs and endless amounts of store content in between 2 (usually & sometimes 3) EPs a year? What's the difference between that and a couple of SPs in between EPs and GPs at roughly a similar rate (+ free content)? That you don't like the packs is one thing but this hate on SPs is really a bit ridiculous to me. Yes there are a lot of SPs, that's just generally what the sims series evolved to after TS2 (heck even 2 had stuff). It's not like TS3's store was cheap or that some experiences weren't tied to its content in much the same way some of TS4's experiences and gameplay are tied to stuff packs...
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I don't come to the forums to vote or to read about SPs for TS4. But I have been interested in the Sims games for 13 yrs and visited the forums to get the latest news about them. In recent years it has been mostly to find out in which direction they are changing and to see if some of them still are interesting enough for me too. I still play the Sims Freeplay and maybe later I will be playing the Sims Mobile and TS5 too. So I also come to the forums to see in which direction TS4 is developing and if EA can be expected to focus even more on SPs instead of the bigger expansions with more gameplay. But as everybody should be able to see EA doesn't attempt to make the game more advanced like all us experienced simmers would have preferred. Instead EA still just want the game to be simple for new simmers and to focus on cheaper and smaller expansions like all the SPs. We just don't know how this will be in the future and which new sidegames EA will make too. So I visit the forums to see if I can find more clues and information about it.
I am really starting to get annoyed about this argument. No offense. But are people really pretending TS3 didn't have a lot of stuff, both in the form of (more expensive) stuff packs and endless amounts of store content in between 2 (usually & sometimes 3) EPs a year? What's the difference between that and a couple of SPs in between EPs and GPs at roughly a similar rate (+ free content)? That you don't like the packs is one thing but this hate on SPs is really a bit ridiculous to me. Yes there are a lot of SPs, that's just generally what the sims series evolved to after TS2 (heck even 2 had stuff). It's not like TS3's store was cheap or that some experiences weren't tied to its content in much the same way some of TS4's experiences and gameplay are tied to stuff packs...
I didn't want to attack TS3 at all - and not even really TS4 either. It is the way the game has developed from TS2 to TS3 to TS4 that interests me. People want the game to become better and more advanced. But EA instead (and especially in TS4) has simplified the game and omitted a lot of things which people loved in the previous games.
You see the SPs as extras while I alas don't. If you compare the money instead you will more likely understand what I mean because let us assume that somebody bought all expansions for TS3 and TS4 when they were released. Then the yearly amount that such a simmer used on the games to buy expansions would be about the same for each game. So the change isn't IMO about EA releasing more for TS4 - but instead about EA dropping more than half of the EPs and replacing them with SPs and GPs instead. (TS3 even got 3 EPs each year in both 2012 and 2013 while TS4 gets at most one EP each year.)
So the change is for me to see that EA now mainly release SPs instead because the cheapest expansions apparently sell best. I don't think that this can be caused by adult simmers at all because I am sure that adult simmers are more likely to buy EPs than SPs. So for me to see it must be caused by young "teen" simmers who have to ask their parents for permission to download the new expansions - because parents are of course more likely to give such a permission the cheaper the expansion is.
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I don't come to the forums to vote or to read about SPs for TS4. But I have been interested in the Sims games for 13 yrs and visited the forums to get the latest news about them. In recent years it has been mostly to find out in which direction they are changing and to see if some of them still are interesting enough for me too. I still play the Sims Freeplay and maybe later I will be playing the Sims Mobile and TS5 too. So I also come to the forums to see in which direction TS4 is developing and if EA can be expected to focus even more on SPs instead of the bigger expansions with more gameplay. But as everybody should be able to see EA doesn't attempt to make the game more advanced like all us experienced simmers would have preferred. Instead EA still just want the game to be simple for new simmers and to focus on cheaper and smaller expansions like all the SPs. We just don't know how this will be in the future and which new sidegames EA will make too. So I visit the forums to see if I can find more clues and information about it.
I am really starting to get annoyed about this argument. No offense. But are people really pretending TS3 didn't have a lot of stuff, both in the form of (more expensive) stuff packs and endless amounts of store content in between 2 (usually & sometimes 3) EPs a year? What's the difference between that and a couple of SPs in between EPs and GPs at roughly a similar rate (+ free content)? That you don't like the packs is one thing but this hate on SPs is really a bit ridiculous to me. Yes there are a lot of SPs, that's just generally what the sims series evolved to after TS2 (heck even 2 had stuff). It's not like TS3's store was cheap or that some experiences weren't tied to its content in much the same way some of TS4's experiences and gameplay are tied to stuff packs...
I didn't want to attack TS3 at all - and not even really TS4 either. It is the way the game has developed from TS2 to TS3 to TS4 that interests me. People want the game to become better and more advanced. But EA instead (and especially in TS4) has simplified the game and omitted a lot of things which people loved in the previous games.
You see the SPs as extras while I alas don't. If you compare the money instead you will more likely understand what I mean because let us assume that somebody bought all expansions for TS3 and TS4 when they were released. Then the yearly amount that such a simmer used on the games to buy expansions would be about the same for each game. So the change isn't IMO about EA releasing more for TS4 - but instead about EA dropping more than half of the EPs and replacing them with SPs and GPs instead. (TS3 even got 3 EPs each year in both 2012 and 2013 while TS4 gets at most one EP each year.)
So the change is for me to see that EA now mainly release SPs instead because the cheapest expansions apparently sell best. I don't think that this can be caused by adult simmers at all because I am sure that adult simmers are more likely to buy EPs than SPs. So for me to see it must be caused by young "teen" simmers who have to ask their parents for permission to download the new expansions - because parents are of course more likely to give such a permission the cheaper the expansion is.
Idk there was one year where we got two EPs no? And other than that I still think 1 EP + 2 GP roughly equals 2 EPs. If you count the patch we got 2017 was rather similar in terms of content as a busier TS3 year. I think you're right that SPs often sell better due to a lower price but I think another important reason for SPs is to keep the flow of content relatively constant (similarly to store items in TS3). If they didn't do this, there'd be at most 2 - 3 releases a year. I'm sure SPs contain a lot of items that were cut out of EPs anyway or things that don't really fit to any particular theme and so they're bundled into their own. I think GPs - even if they contain less content and no big worlds - are an excellent idea though and the fact that their gameplay mechanics tend to be far more in depth (often also more than TS3's equivalents that were thrown into EPs they often didn't even fit into), shows that they do want to add more depth. Which is something that yes, I as an adult simmer want. So to me the game is advancing - but again, not everyone will feel that way. And not everyone will like the content these packs offer. But tbf people always exalt TS3's EPs to a standard not all of them deserve. There's also a lot of stuff in them that isn't thought through or doesn't work or is just altogether pointless to me (like Showtime). I wonder if they'll do that with 4 too when 5 comes out lol. Anyway other topic, my point is: I don't think SPs actually take time away from EPs and GPs. If they didn't exist I don't think they'd release 2 EPs and 3 GPs a year, they'd just release nothing in between big releases. And I'd like to see the uproar when that happens lol
For the community SP it is still a SP that is being sold globally. Going strictly by votes can create a lopsided offering of content, in which case things would need to be balanced out to fall more in line with the other SP offerings. It's not that they are learning we don't want chairs, because the chairs were among the winning choices, which led to one being cut. That data would suggest that players want more chairs, or a greater variety of chair styles.
They also heavily swayed the voting in a way that could've easily been avoided, simply by making the vote between a bunch of new game concepts and laundry, which was already highly in demand.
This is my biggest complaint.
The wedding/funeral packs sounded great, and would've won. I mean, nobody cared about "Eco Living".
What they cared about, was "laundry". This has been obvious from the day TS4 was released. People demanded pets, toddlers, ghosts, pools, vampires... and laundry.
So then, when the vote came for gameplay objects to include in "the laundry pack", unsurprisingly, everyone votes for laundry.
I strongly believe that they would've made this pack regardless of the vote results. It was just designed to placate the fans.
That said, I'm glad the gurus have actually been including us in the development of the pack. Explaining the design process, showing screenshots... but they were never NOT going to make this pack.
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
I don't think that they want to guide voters at all. But they only allow voting between options that are ideas which were very close in their own opinion. So instead of just picking a random one then why not let the forum vote and make them believe that their opinions matter (even though they really don't)
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I don't come to the forums to vote or to read about SPs for TS4. But I have been interested in the Sims games for 13 yrs and visited the forums to get the latest news about them. In recent years it has been mostly to find out in which direction they are changing and to see if some of them still are interesting enough for me too. I still play the Sims Freeplay and maybe later I will be playing the Sims Mobile and TS5 too. So I also come to the forums to see in which direction TS4 is developing and if EA can be expected to focus even more on SPs instead of the bigger expansions with more gameplay. But as everybody should be able to see EA doesn't attempt to make the game more advanced like all us experienced simmers would have preferred. Instead EA still just want the game to be simple for new simmers and to focus on cheaper and smaller expansions like all the SPs. We just don't know how this will be in the future and which new sidegames EA will make too. So I visit the forums to see if I can find more clues and information about it.
I am really starting to get annoyed about this argument. No offense. But are people really pretending TS3 didn't have a lot of stuff, both in the form of (more expensive) stuff packs and endless amounts of store content in between 2 (usually & sometimes 3) EPs a year? What's the difference between that and a couple of SPs in between EPs and GPs at roughly a similar rate (+ free content)? That you don't like the packs is one thing but this hate on SPs is really a bit ridiculous to me. Yes there are a lot of SPs, that's just generally what the sims series evolved to after TS2 (heck even 2 had stuff). It's not like TS3's store was cheap or that some experiences weren't tied to its content in much the same way some of TS4's experiences and gameplay are tied to stuff packs...
I didn't want to attack TS3 at all - and not even really TS4 either. It is the way the game has developed from TS2 to TS3 to TS4 that interests me. People want the game to become better and more advanced. But EA instead (and especially in TS4) has simplified the game and omitted a lot of things which people loved in the previous games.
You see the SPs as extras while I alas don't. If you compare the money instead you will more likely understand what I mean because let us assume that somebody bought all expansions for TS3 and TS4 when they were released. Then the yearly amount that such a simmer used on the games to buy expansions would be about the same for each game. So the change isn't IMO about EA releasing more for TS4 - but instead about EA dropping more than half of the EPs and replacing them with SPs and GPs instead. (TS3 even got 3 EPs each year in both 2012 and 2013 while TS4 gets at most one EP each year.)
So the change is for me to see that EA now mainly release SPs instead because the cheapest expansions apparently sell best. I don't think that this can be caused by adult simmers at all because I am sure that adult simmers are more likely to buy EPs than SPs. So for me to see it must be caused by young "teen" simmers who have to ask their parents for permission to download the new expansions - because parents are of course more likely to give such a permission the cheaper the expansion is.
Idk there was one year where we got two EPs no? And other than that I still think 1 EP + 2 GP roughly equals 2 EPs. If you count the patch we got 2017 was rather similar in terms of content as a busier TS3 year. I think you're right that SPs often sell better due to a lower price but I think another important reason for SPs is to keep the flow of content relatively constant (similarly to store items in TS3). If they didn't do this, there'd be at most 2 - 3 releases a year. I'm sure SPs contain a lot of items that were cut out of EPs anyway or things that don't really fit to any particular theme and so they're bundled into their own. I think GPs - even if they contain less content and no big worlds - are an excellent idea though and the fact that their gameplay mechanics tend to be far more in depth (often also more than TS3's equivalents that were thrown into EPs they often didn't even fit into), shows that they do want to add more depth. Which is something that yes, I as an adult simmer want. So to me the game is advancing - but again, not everyone will feel that way. And not everyone will like the content these packs offer. But tbf people always exalt TS3's EPs to a standard not all of them deserve. There's also a lot of stuff in them that isn't thought through or doesn't work or is just altogether pointless to me (like Showtime). I wonder if they'll do that with 4 too when 5 comes out lol. Anyway other topic, my point is: I don't think SPs actually take time away from EPs and GPs. If they didn't exist I don't think they'd release 2 EPs and 3 GPs a year, they'd just release nothing in between big releases. And I'd like to see the uproar when that happens lol
You forget that until the middle of 2017 it instead seemed like EA only would release 1 EP, 1 GP and 4 SPs each year. I agree that it now seems like EA is increasing the number of GPs to 2 GPs each year. But in the end of the Sims 3 period EA even increased the number of EPs to 3 EPs each year.
I don't buy excuses like "EA now only have one development team because EA "lost" the other team that made 2 of the 3 EPs for TS3 in 2012 and and 2013" because EA didn't. Instead it was a clear choice to not make so many big expansions for TS4 and therefore EA had to find something else for the team in the Salt Lake City studio to do. This was actually hard for EA. So after letting the Salt Lake City studio make a few unimportant mobile games EA finally decided to just close the studio down in April 2017. EA just doesn't need so many developers when the focus mainly is on SPs which don't need much prigramming but only some artists.
EA seems to have decided to increase the number of yearly GPs. So they must have sold quite well. But I fear for the future of EPs and I think the problem is that although young "teens" earlier got the EPs as presents for their birthdays and Christmas they can't anymore if EA wants to sell the EPs as digital downloads and not in physical boxes. Also EA can't release more than they do now each year without the sales numbers going down. So EA doesn't.
Yes. But EA of course prefers to sell everything through Origin instead because otherwise the third party stores take most of the money. Therefore EA prefers to only make expansions that can be sold as digital downloads. So as I see it this is the likely reason why EA alas had no other choice except to replace most of the EPs with SPs and GPs.
The year we got two EPs was the year after release. Firstly, one came early in the year, the other came much later. Also, one of those packs? That was Get To Work. Not a sterling example of perfection in a pack, with all the fixes and patches going on. You want another Get To Work?
And secondly, it's not an unfair assumption that these packs were being worked on WHILE the game was being worked on. It takes over a year to create an EP.
The Store was terrible. Really, first you buy points, THEN you buy items. It's better value to buy more points (meaning one point does not have a consistent value), THEN it's better value to buy collections. 1000 Simpoints is £6. However a Deliciously Indulgent Bakery is 1,900 Simpoints for 17 items, the majority of which will only be really useful in your DIB. CAS stuff was equally bad considering the fact that you can only wear so much at a time.
I'm so glad the Store is gone. Really, it was extortionate.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
The year we got two EPs was the year after release. Firstly, one came early in the year, the other came much later. Also, one of those packs? That was Get To Work. Not a sterling example of perfection in a pack, with all the fixes and patches going on. You want another Get To Work?
And secondly, it's not an unfair assumption that these packs were being worked on WHILE the game was being worked on. It takes over a year to create an EP.
The Store was terrible. Really, first you buy points, THEN you buy items. It's better value to buy more points (meaning one point does not have a consistent value), THEN it's better value to buy collections. 1000 Simpoints is £6. However a Deliciously Indulgent Bakery is 1,900 Simpoints for 17 items, the majority of which will only be really useful in your DIB. CAS stuff was equally bad considering the fact that you can only wear so much at a time.
I'm so glad the Store is gone. Really, it was extortionate.
Agreed. I also prefer SPs that follow a clear pricing strategy to TS3's store content. That isn't to say there was no cool content on the store cause there was but it was messy and unclear and indeed often overpriced.
Also @Erpe they can still give them origin gift cards if there are no physical discs (but they can still technically buy digital copies in boxes so that's not really an issue either for EPs )
ETA: also Now that there's more content I don't hate GTW quite as much anymore. The main issue with that EP was that it came before anything substantial. So the marks it missed hit us 5 times harder than they would've if it had come out later (I think)
Comments
Where it comes to realism, I’m especially bothered by the exaggerated behaviour of sims in 4 (it just fails to represent humanity for me, it’s too far off; I open my game to take some pictures of their legs and I am immediately totally turned off by their insane giggling without any reason) and everything looking like rubber. And a lot of stuff really looks awful for some reason not related to the game being cartoony or stylized. I expected an improvement in that department compared to Sims 3, but I never expected photorealism myself. I’ve seen examples of other game (I forgot the names unfortunately) that perfectly represent what I expected. So I know it’s possible
Totally agree! IMO, the design and development of the community developed pack has been steered and controlled in the background by developers all along. As was stated above, by selecting one or two fan favorite objects (such as laundry objects) and sticking them in with other types of objects, the other objects don't stand a chance to be selected. There were a lot of great ideas that were swept aside and will probably never see the light of day because of the demands for laundry objects in this game. EA did not need to do this community project to get us to vote on a laundry pack, they knew it was something fans had wanted since TS4 's release. But by doing so, and carefully manipulating the choices to steer the fans toward laundry, they have led the fans to believe that they are the ones who decided as to the theme of this pack. I believe that EA would have made this SP regardless of whether fans had chosen something else. They can now check it off the list of things they were going to make, anyway. This just made it easier for them to proclaim that the fans were the ones to design this whole pack..... yeah, right.
Remember, before you start bashing me, this is MY opinion!
"If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
That fruit bowl
If anything they should of learned since the chairs all got enough votes that people really love their chairs... I'm not one of them voted for none of the chairs
Hey, there were three types of chairs to vote for. Chairs are going to end up there as a result. But we don't get ALL the chairs that made it. Some of those chairs were cut. We don't need more than one type of chair per pack.
Uh-Oh, indeed. On both sides.
I mean, back years ago (feels like ancient history now) I was playing this emulator for the old Star Wars Galaxies. Which is more or less a realistic style, as I recall, just very dated in its polygon count and the like. Back then, I had a very negative view of anything cartoony in a game. Star Wars: The Old Republic was coming out and I was curious about it because I was into the idea of a solid, modern Star Wars MMO. But I hated how the graphics looked. It was jarring and I couldn't imagine playing a Star Wars MMO that looked so cartoony.
Nonetheless, I gave the game a try in beta and then years after its release, got into for probably a good year of solid play; after that, I became much more accepting of the style. Somewhere in that there was an interlude where I was playing a much earlier version of this game and I was pretty ok with the graphics (or I got used to it, at least).
Jump to present and I barely notice anymore. There's still a small part of me that wishes for a more up-to-date realistic graphics for TS4, but on the whole, I don't give it much thought.
Actually, a well-placed point and something that has been done before in other places, and when it isn't done (Curse you, democracy!) the results can be... less than pleasing.
Not that I believe Voters were entirely redundant. It's made clear that the devs wanted us to see how making a pack worked, as well as participating. We can't fully participate because we're not around the table hammering out ideas with them, or it would be called the "Eco-Life" pack for a start. Or Stuffy McStuff Pack.
They picked out ideas that EVERYBODY was going for - but they needed to be things that would fit in a Stuff Pack. Now if they were giving us Laundry alongside 'Katy Perry's Sweet Treats 2", THAT is what you call a fixed vote. But it's still been suggested that they'll make all of these packs eventually, and most of the ideas from early stages will find their way into some pack or another too. It's just, "Which one first? Which ones are favoured? Are there some that just fall flat?" I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt that every time they put up a poll, they had already made their choices and our input was completely redundant.
if you believe that to be true then why do you come on the forums ?
I am really starting to get annoyed about this argument. No offense. But are people really pretending TS3 didn't have a lot of stuff, both in the form of (more expensive) stuff packs and endless amounts of store content in between 2 (usually & sometimes 3) EPs a year? What's the difference between that and a couple of SPs in between EPs and GPs at roughly a similar rate (+ free content)? That you don't like the packs is one thing but this hate on SPs is really a bit ridiculous to me. Yes there are a lot of SPs, that's just generally what the sims series evolved to after TS2 (heck even 2 had stuff). It's not like TS3's store was cheap or that some experiences weren't tied to its content in much the same way some of TS4's experiences and gameplay are tied to stuff packs...
You see the SPs as extras while I alas don't. If you compare the money instead you will more likely understand what I mean because let us assume that somebody bought all expansions for TS3 and TS4 when they were released. Then the yearly amount that such a simmer used on the games to buy expansions would be about the same for each game. So the change isn't IMO about EA releasing more for TS4 - but instead about EA dropping more than half of the EPs and replacing them with SPs and GPs instead. (TS3 even got 3 EPs each year in both 2012 and 2013 while TS4 gets at most one EP each year.)
So the change is for me to see that EA now mainly release SPs instead because the cheapest expansions apparently sell best. I don't think that this can be caused by adult simmers at all because I am sure that adult simmers are more likely to buy EPs than SPs. So for me to see it must be caused by young "teen" simmers who have to ask their parents for permission to download the new expansions - because parents are of course more likely to give such a permission the cheaper the expansion is.
Idk there was one year where we got two EPs no? And other than that I still think 1 EP + 2 GP roughly equals 2 EPs. If you count the patch we got 2017 was rather similar in terms of content as a busier TS3 year. I think you're right that SPs often sell better due to a lower price but I think another important reason for SPs is to keep the flow of content relatively constant (similarly to store items in TS3). If they didn't do this, there'd be at most 2 - 3 releases a year. I'm sure SPs contain a lot of items that were cut out of EPs anyway or things that don't really fit to any particular theme and so they're bundled into their own. I think GPs - even if they contain less content and no big worlds - are an excellent idea though and the fact that their gameplay mechanics tend to be far more in depth (often also more than TS3's equivalents that were thrown into EPs they often didn't even fit into), shows that they do want to add more depth. Which is something that yes, I as an adult simmer want. So to me the game is advancing - but again, not everyone will feel that way. And not everyone will like the content these packs offer. But tbf people always exalt TS3's EPs to a standard not all of them deserve. There's also a lot of stuff in them that isn't thought through or doesn't work or is just altogether pointless to me (like Showtime). I wonder if they'll do that with 4 too when 5 comes out lol. Anyway other topic, my point is: I don't think SPs actually take time away from EPs and GPs. If they didn't exist I don't think they'd release 2 EPs and 3 GPs a year, they'd just release nothing in between big releases. And I'd like to see the uproar when that happens lol
I don't buy excuses like "EA now only have one development team because EA "lost" the other team that made 2 of the 3 EPs for TS3 in 2012 and and 2013" because EA didn't. Instead it was a clear choice to not make so many big expansions for TS4 and therefore EA had to find something else for the team in the Salt Lake City studio to do. This was actually hard for EA. So after letting the Salt Lake City studio make a few unimportant mobile games EA finally decided to just close the studio down in April 2017. EA just doesn't need so many developers when the focus mainly is on SPs which don't need much prigramming but only some artists.
EA seems to have decided to increase the number of yearly GPs. So they must have sold quite well. But I fear for the future of EPs and I think the problem is that although young "teens" earlier got the EPs as presents for their birthdays and Christmas they can't anymore if EA wants to sell the EPs as digital downloads and not in physical boxes. Also EA can't release more than they do now each year without the sales numbers going down. So EA doesn't.
And secondly, it's not an unfair assumption that these packs were being worked on WHILE the game was being worked on. It takes over a year to create an EP.
The Store was terrible. Really, first you buy points, THEN you buy items. It's better value to buy more points (meaning one point does not have a consistent value), THEN it's better value to buy collections. 1000 Simpoints is £6. However a Deliciously Indulgent Bakery is 1,900 Simpoints for 17 items, the majority of which will only be really useful in your DIB. CAS stuff was equally bad considering the fact that you can only wear so much at a time.
I'm so glad the Store is gone. Really, it was extortionate.
Agreed. I also prefer SPs that follow a clear pricing strategy to TS3's store content. That isn't to say there was no cool content on the store cause there was but it was messy and unclear and indeed often overpriced.
Also @Erpe they can still give them origin gift cards if there are no physical discs (but they can still technically buy digital copies in boxes so that's not really an issue either for EPs
ETA: also Now that there's more content I don't hate GTW quite as much anymore. The main issue with that EP was that it came before anything substantial. So the marks it missed hit us 5 times harder than they would've if it had come out later (I think)