All the traits are just stereotypical things people would associate with the name of the traits to give our sims personality, not to make any social comment or trivialize anyones experiences. Yet, I respect your opinion, OP. I can see why it can be upsetting for you.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I feel that being able to laugh about different aspects of mental illness lowers the social stigma. Mental illness used to be something you just didn´t speak of. You locked the mentally ill away and tossed away the key.
That only works if you're being able to laugh with the mentally ill, I really really do not think mocking them is progressive in any way.
In that case, what can we laugh about?
I agree that humour can help to remove stigma, but jokes made at the expense of someone struggling with mental illness, or that mocks or belittles them, reinforces that stigma.
The point is that sensitive issues like mental illness need to be treated with respect, which means that when it is referenced in humour, it isn't referenced in a way that belittles the issue.
I'm a CC Creator and family player that is super hyped that toddlers are back!
I think... it's a name in a game. If it bothers you, then maybe it's not a game for you?
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry I know *real* mentally ill people and I have insane sims... I don't look at my sims and compare them to real, sick people. They're sims. A game. It doesn't mean anything.
I feel that being able to laugh about different aspects of mental illness lowers the social stigma. Mental illness used to be something you just didn´t speak of. You locked the mentally ill away and tossed away the key.
That only works if you're being able to laugh with the mentally ill, I really really do not think mocking them is progressive in any way.
In that case, what can we laugh about?
I agree that humour can help to remove stigma, but jokes made at the expense of someone struggling with mental illness, or that mocks or belittles them, reinforces that stigma.
The point is that sensitive issues like mental illness need to be treated with respect, which means that when it is referenced in humour, it isn't referenced in a way that belittles the issue.
For something to be mockery there has to be the intent to mock. Following me?
I think... it's a name in a game. If it bothers you, then maybe it's not a game for you?
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry I know *real* mentally ill people and I have insane sims... I don't look at my sims and compare them to real, sick people. They're sims. A game. It doesn't mean anything.
--T
I am not sure if this was your intent, but to suggest to someone to stop playing TS4 because they post their thoughts about one feature in the feedback section seems quite unnecessary and even rude.
The OP explained very thoroughly that they have concerns about a certain feature of the insane trait, first and foremost. I don't feel bothered by the same thing, but I can recognize when someone is making an argument in a sensible way. Also they are not asking for anything to be changed in TS4, but wanted to make their concerns known for future iterations. So there is no time taken away from issues that are more pressing (in your opinion).
I don't know what else to say, it just seems like you did not read the original post, which may be explained by your "little patience".
If all the people who don't bother reading could just go elsewhere that would be great.
You don't have to agree, but we're trying to have a conversation. That involves listening to the other side.
Have your monologue on another thread if you're not reading past the title thank you.
This is not an issue. This world is already too overly sanitized because of SJW nonsense. No need to add to it. It's a game.
To you, it's not an issue. One person's "SJW nonsense" is another person's consideration for other people.
I don't care about the "Bro" or "Glutton" traits, but I wouldn't go to someone who has a problem with those and tell them, "It's not an issue." Obviously, it's something they care about, even if it's something I don't. I might state my opinion, but I'm not going to just brush it aside like they have no right to care about it.
I think... it's a name in a game. If it bothers you, then maybe it's not a game for you?
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry I know *real* mentally ill people and I have insane sims... I don't look at my sims and compare them to real, sick people. They're sims. A game. It doesn't mean anything.
--T
I am not sure if this was your intent, but to suggest to someone to stop playing TS4 because they post their thoughts about one feature in the feedback section seems quite unnecessary and even rude.
The OP explained very thoroughly that they have concerns about a certain feature of the insane trait, first and foremost. I don't feel bothered by the same thing, but I can recognize when someone is making an argument in a sensible way. Also they are not asking for anything to be changed in TS4, but wanted to make their concerns known for future iterations. So there is no time taken away from issues that are more pressing (in your opinion).
I don't know what else to say, it just seems like you did not read the original post, which may be explained by your "little patience".
I mean what I say. What you take from my post is up to you. I have little patience for people who nitpick at silly things, yes I say silly because that's what it is; silly fun.
If one cannot handle *one* word, regardless of reasons, (as I said in my last comment is the OP going to show every 'mentally ill' person her insane sim? No!? So what does it matter?), then yes, I suggest you either 1) not use the trait or 2) not play the game. I have no other suggestions to offer. The trait is not there to be associated with real life mental issues, as I said; silly fun!
And yes, I read the main post, hence why I answered. There is no legitimate argument here. If I was to be really frank I could tell the OP to grow up, it's a game.
PLEASE FIX TEENS IN TS4! I NEED YOUNGER TEENS NOT YA TEENS! (^_^)Please add Music Bands with lead singers! Please add vehicles and garages! Vehicles have always been part of The Sims.
I think... it's a name in a game. If it bothers you, then maybe it's not a game for you?
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry I know *real* mentally ill people and I have insane sims... I don't look at my sims and compare them to real, sick people. They're sims. A game. It doesn't mean anything.
--T
I am not sure if this was your intent, but to suggest to someone to stop playing TS4 because they post their thoughts about one feature in the feedback section seems quite unnecessary and even rude.
The OP explained very thoroughly that they have concerns about a certain feature of the insane trait, first and foremost. I don't feel bothered by the same thing, but I can recognize when someone is making an argument in a sensible way. Also they are not asking for anything to be changed in TS4, but wanted to make their concerns known for future iterations. So there is no time taken away from issues that are more pressing (in your opinion).
I don't know what else to say, it just seems like you did not read the original post, which may be explained by your "little patience".
I mean what I say. What you take from my post is up to you. I have little patience for people who nitpick at silly things, yes I say silly because that's what it is; silly fun.
If one cannot handle *one* word, regardless of reasons, (as I said in my last comment is the OP going to show every 'mentally ill' person her insane sim? No!? So what does it matter?), then yes, I suggest you either 1) not use the trait or 2) not play the game. I have no other suggestions to offer. The trait is not there to be associated with real life mental issues, as I said; silly fun!
And yes, I read the main post, hence why I answered. There is no legitimate argument here. If I was to be really frank I could tell the OP to grow up, it's a game.
But you know, that would be rude an all....
--T
Sorry, I should not have reacted to your first post at all. You obviously do not take the OP seriously - which is very different from disagreeing with someone - so there is no dialogue to be had with you. My bad, won't happen again.
I'm sure there are some, even many, who will think I'm being too sensitive
Yep.
This is not an issue. This world is already too overly sanitized because of SJW nonsense. No need to add to it. It's a game.
Why does everybody who expresses concern about something automatically get branded as a "SJW"? I don't agree with the OP, but they have stated themselves in a respectful manner that they suffer from mental illnesses and are uncomfortable with certain aspects of the trait.
SJW- That word has been ruined for me because individuals like you are using it incorrectly. It used to mean people who used their social status as an excuse to bully others, but now it's basically used on anyone who expresses concern over something or advocates for basic human decency. Like seriously, my friend got called one on twitter for quoting MLK on MLK day.
I think... it's a name in a game. If it bothers you, then maybe it's not a game for you?
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry I know *real* mentally ill people and I have insane sims... I don't look at my sims and compare them to real, sick people. They're sims. A game. It doesn't mean anything.
--T
I am not sure if this was your intent, but to suggest to someone to stop playing TS4 because they post their thoughts about one feature in the feedback section seems quite unnecessary and even rude.
The OP explained very thoroughly that they have concerns about a certain feature of the insane trait, first and foremost. I don't feel bothered by the same thing, but I can recognize when someone is making an argument in a sensible way. Also they are not asking for anything to be changed in TS4, but wanted to make their concerns known for future iterations. So there is no time taken away from issues that are more pressing (in your opinion).
I don't know what else to say, it just seems like you did not read the original post, which may be explained by your "little patience".
I mean what I say. What you take from my post is up to you. I have little patience for people who nitpick at silly things, yes I say silly because that's what it is; silly fun.
If one cannot handle *one* word, regardless of reasons, (as I said in my last comment is the OP going to show every 'mentally ill' person her insane sim? No!? So what does it matter?), then yes, I suggest you either 1) not use the trait or 2) not play the game. I have no other suggestions to offer. The trait is not there to be associated with real life mental issues, as I said; silly fun!
And yes, I read the main post, hence why I answered. There is no legitimate argument here. If I was to be really frank I could tell the OP to grow up, it's a game.
But you know, that would be rude an all....
--T
Sorry, I should not have reacted to your first post at all. You obviously do not take the OP seriously - which is very different from disagreeing with someone - so there is no dialogue to be had with you. My bad, won't happen again.
Lol nice try but don't make it out like you did a bad thing by replying to me. You didn't like what I said? That's fine. But that's your fault, not mine.
While the OP has the right to be offended, I'm more interested in their suggestion for a solution. What's the point of bringing something up without also bringing an alternative to the table?
Do you want them to remove the trait? Change the descriptions? Language is an odd thing, when we call someone insane or crazy we often mean they have done something out of the ordinary. I call my girlfriend crazy but I don't mean she has a mental illness. In fact when referring to someone with a mental illness I have never seen anyone refer to them as insane or crazy. Terms like unwell, mentally ill, mentally unstable come to mind so in my mind the trait insane isn't referring to any real world mental issue but instead is referring to the "Hollywood" term if you will.
While the OP has the right to be offended, I'm more interested in their suggestion for a solution. What's the point of bringing something up without also bringing an alternative to the table?
Do you want them to remove the trait? Change the descriptions? Language is an odd thing, when we call someone insane or crazy we often mean they have done something out of the ordinary. I call my girlfriend crazy but I don't mean she has a mental illness. In fact when referring to someone with a mental illness I have never seen anyone refer to them as insane or crazy. Terms like unwell, mentally ill, mentally unstable come to mind so in my mind the trait insane isn't referring to any real world mental issue but instead is referring to the "Hollywood" term if you will.
All I ask is consideration regarding this issue for future installments in the series. If there's going to be an Insane trait in, say, The Sims 5, or a spin-off series, it could be done without references to "the voices" or similar specific symptoms. Although that alone would satisfy me, I wouldn't be against them removing the Insane trait altogether, perhaps breaking it down into Emotional or Moody (where one is given to sudden bursts of different emotions) and Eccentric or Inappropriate (behavior similar to that of Insane Sims in The Sims 3, where they have unusual whims and may wear weird things for the occasion). I mean, Emotional and Inappropriate were already traits in The Sims 3, so it shouldn't be too much of a push.
But more than anything, I just want people to think about what I'm saying. That's all. Just think about it why some people might be uncomfortable with with the way this trait is treated currently. I appreciate those of you who are at least taking me seriously, even if you don't agree with me. It means a lot.
While the OP has the right to be offended, I'm more interested in their suggestion for a solution. What's the point of bringing something up without also bringing an alternative to the table?
Do you want them to remove the trait? Change the descriptions? Language is an odd thing, when we call someone insane or crazy we often mean they have done something out of the ordinary. I call my girlfriend crazy but I don't mean she has a mental illness. In fact when referring to someone with a mental illness I have never seen anyone refer to them as insane or crazy. Terms like unwell, mentally ill, mentally unstable come to mind so in my mind the trait insane isn't referring to any real world mental issue but instead is referring to the "Hollywood" term if you will.
All I ask is consideration regarding this issue for future installments in the series. If there's going to be an Insane trait in, say, The Sims 5, or a spin-off series, it could be done without references to "the voices" or similar specific symptoms. Although that alone would satisfy me, I wouldn't be against them removing the Insane trait altogether, perhaps breaking it down into Emotional or Moody (where one is given to sudden bursts of different emotions) and Eccentric or Inappropriate (behavior similar to that of Insane Sims in The Sims 3, where they have unusual whims and may wear weird things for the occasion). I mean, Emotional and Inappropriate were already traits in The Sims 3, so it shouldn't be too much of a push.
But more than anything, I just want people to think about what I'm saying. That's all. Just think about it why some people might be uncomfortable with with the way this trait is treated currently. I appreciate those of you who are at least taking me seriously, even if you don't agree with me. It means a lot.
Correct me if I'm wrong but TS3 also had the Insane trait. I don't get why you're uncomfortable, there's nothing to *be* uncomfortable about - it's you that is looking at the trait in a negitive light. The game portrays insane as comical and humorous, which is exactly how it's supposed to be viewed. I'm sorry, but I find my insane sims talking to lamps pretty hilarious. It's funny.
If my friend wanted to bungee jump; I would call him insane. It doesn't mean he is mentally ill or unwell, which is what the poster before you pointed out.
Unless you consider yourself insane and think insane sims don't act like you think an insane sim should, then I don't see why you have a problem with it, or why you're worrying about what other people think about it? Does the trait personally offend you? I know it doesn't offend me. It's just a trait in a game. It's not real. If I picked the Insane trait for my sim then I would expect a little, well, insainity. I don't know what else to tell you. I get how you're feeling, I just don't understand why, there's no reason for it, imo. The trait is not there to make fun of mentally ill people. It's to be made *fun*, you know? The thing you feel when you're playing a game. They make these *same* sorts of puns in whacky insane cartoons. Look at Daffy Duck, I would call him insane. It's fun.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get why it bothers you. It's not supposed to. It's like me saying I get uncomfortable because flirty sims like to flirt a lot... like, I just don't see the big deal.
You telling people "stop being uncomfortable because I said so" is irrelevant to the conversation we're trying to have and frankly I'm not sure anybody cares.
Intent does not equal impact. Until you step up your comprehension skill and move past that first stage, you are bringing nothing new nor interesting to the table, stop hogging a seat.
In TS3 insane sims could do all sorts of wackiness. In TS4 the personality traits are not so fleshed out and you don't really notice things like insane and childish the way you did in 3. Even evil sims don't seem evil in 4. The emotion system and the way it constantly fluctuates is part of the problem in 4. The emotion system just doesn't feel normal.
I tried the TS4 asylum and well...the insane and other traits like mean didn't really seem to do anything. All the mental patients in my asylum basically just acted like normal sims.
Correct me if I'm wrong but TS3 also had the Insane trait. I don't get why you're uncomfortable, there's nothing to *be* uncomfortable about - it's you that is looking at the trait in a negitive light. The game portrays insane as comical and humorous, which is exactly how it's supposed to be viewed. I'm sorry, but I find my insane sims talking to lamps pretty hilarious. It's funny.
If my friend wanted to bungee jump; I would call him insane. It doesn't mean he is mentally ill or unwell, which is what the poster before you pointed out.
Unless you consider yourself insane and think insane sims don't act like you think an insane sim should, then I don't see why you have a problem with it, or why you're worrying about what other people think about it? Does the trait personally offend you? I know it doesn't offend me. It's just a trait in a game. It's not real. If I picked the Insane trait for my sim then I would expect a little, well, insainity. I don't know what else to tell you. I get how you're feeling, I just don't understand why, there's no reason for it, imo. The trait is not there to make fun of mentally ill people. It's to be made *fun*, you know? The thing you feel when you're playing a game. They make these *same* sorts of puns in whacky insane cartoons. Look at Daffy Duck, I would call him insane. It's fun.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get why it bothers you. It's not supposed to. It's like me saying I get uncomfortable because flirty sims like to flirt a lot... like, I just don't see the big deal.
--T
I get what you are saying, but I would have appreciated if you had explained your views in this manner from the beginning, instead of saying that I need to "grow up" and that I should just stop playing if it offends me so much. The entire point of this board is to bring up ways you feel that the game or series could be improved, correct?
You also seem to think that the Insane trait is ruining the game for me. It's not. Most of the Insane trait doesn't bother me, as I've mentioned in almost every post in this thread. The main thing I have a problem with is the name for the trait combined with the reference to auditory hallucinations. When references to "the voices" are made, the implication is that "insanity" is referring to mental illness (severe ones that mess with one's perception of reality) rather than someone who just does crazy things--like bungee jumping, to use your example. Then there's the fact that the whole "voices" thing is played for laughs, which is extremely common in popular portrayals of perception-altering mental illness.
Despite all this, I love The Sims 4, and I'm enjoying the game a great deal. Surely one can both love a game and admit that there are still some things that could be improved upon, correct?
Almost everyone feels that there are some things that should not be joked about, but everyone has different thresholds. You have a different threshold than I do, or maybe you are one of those people who feels that everything can or should be joked about. That's fine, but it doesn't mean I need to "grow up." (And no, you don't get any points for holding off on saying that outright. That was extremely rude.)
@SuperCoolRachael Many people have issues with certain aspects of the game. Some of the issues are obvious (like bugs or missing features). From the ones that are not so obvious to the wider crowd, only a few find the words to make people who do not feel the same way understand what truly bothers them. In my opinion, you succeeded in doing that and were respectful all the way - even with the responders who *seriously* need to start to read and comprehend what others are saying before commenting.
You knew that bringing this up would result in some backlash (you made that clear in the first paragraph of your first post) and yet you did. You explained it on a personal level, which should make it easier for others to empathize - even if they were not bothered by it before - and yet some won't and I am sure you knew that too. Good on you for doing it anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong but TS3 also had the Insane trait. I don't get why you're uncomfortable, there's nothing to *be* uncomfortable about - it's you that is looking at the trait in a negitive light. The game portrays insane as comical and humorous, which is exactly how it's supposed to be viewed. I'm sorry, but I find my insane sims talking to lamps pretty hilarious. It's funny.
If my friend wanted to bungee jump; I would call him insane. It doesn't mean he is mentally ill or unwell, which is what the poster before you pointed out.
Unless you consider yourself insane and think insane sims don't act like you think an insane sim should, then I don't see why you have a problem with it, or why you're worrying about what other people think about it? Does the trait personally offend you? I know it doesn't offend me. It's just a trait in a game. It's not real. If I picked the Insane trait for my sim then I would expect a little, well, insainity. I don't know what else to tell you. I get how you're feeling, I just don't understand why, there's no reason for it, imo. The trait is not there to make fun of mentally ill people. It's to be made *fun*, you know? The thing you feel when you're playing a game. They make these *same* sorts of puns in whacky insane cartoons. Look at Daffy Duck, I would call him insane. It's fun.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get why it bothers you. It's not supposed to. It's like me saying I get uncomfortable because flirty sims like to flirt a lot... like, I just don't see the big deal.
--T
I get what you are saying, but I would have appreciated if you had explained your views in this manner from the beginning, instead of saying that I need to "grow up" and that I should just stop playing if it offends me so much. The entire point of this board is to bring up ways you feel that the game or series could be improved, correct?
You also seem to think that the Insane trait is ruining the game for me. It's not. Most of the Insane trait doesn't bother me, as I've mentioned in almost every post in this thread. The main thing I have a problem with is the name for the trait combined with the reference to auditory hallucinations. When references to "the voices" are made, the implication is that "insanity" is referring to mental illness (severe ones that mess with one's perception of reality) rather than someone who just does crazy things--like bungee jumping, to use your example. Then there's the fact that the whole "voices" thing is played for laughs, which is extremely common in popular portrayals of perception-altering mental illness.
Despite all this, I love The Sims 4, and I'm enjoying the game a great deal. Surely one can both love a game and admit that there are still some things that could be improved upon, correct?
Almost everyone feels that there are some things that should not be joked about, but everyone has different thresholds. You have a different threshold than I do, or maybe you are one of those people who feels that everything can or should be joked about. That's fine, but it doesn't mean I need to "grow up." (And no, you don't get any points for holding off on saying that outright. That was extremely rude.)
You're missing my point. It's *you* that is associating 'the voices' with real life mental illness. It's an insane sim, I would expect them to do insane things like talk to lamps and themselves or 'voices'. Gardener sims can talk to plants for Pete's sake, is that bad too?
I'm not trying to be rude, I'm telling you what I think. My initial reaction was to tell you to grow up. I didn't and explained myself first. What you take from my post is up to you I'm not here to impress anybody, you asked if people agreed with you. I don't, so I told you why.
You telling people "stop being uncomfortable because I said so" is irrelevant to the conversation we're trying to have and frankly I'm not sure anybody cares.
Intent does not equal impact. Until you step up your comprehension skill and move past that first stage, you are bringing nothing new nor interesting to the table, stop hogging a seat.
I've said my piece. I'm still working on becoming someone who can actually be done with something instead of dwelling on it, but I'm going to try to stay away from this thread from now on, for the sake of my own mental health. This a personal issue to me, and I'm running out of energy for arguing any further.
ETA: Is there a way to unsubscribe from a specific thread?
I spent 13 years working in the medical field, primarily with disabled adults and special needs children, and in that time I experienced a lot of mental illness professionally. I then experienced it on a personal level. I am now disabled by a rare neurological autoimmune disorder that took years to diagnose (technically they still can't figure out which one it is specifically without a biopsy that I can't afford right now). The first symptoms were mild and varied (sleep disturbances, nausea, exhaustion, migraines triggered by sunlight, numbness, etc), so it was initially misdiagnosed as a variety of other things, including Bipolar. Since I didn't need them in the first place, those meds messed me up severely; they triggered a manic reaction that remains one of the worst experiences of my life. I can tell you from personal experience that "The Voices" are NOT fun. But I honestly have no problem with the Insane trait; in fact, I recently played my first Insane sim, and it was a blast.
The thing is, every sim trait is a major, light-hearted exaggeration of actual human qualities and by that fact alone it shouldn't be equated to their actual human counterparts. Essentially, sims are caricatures of us as a whole, an inside joke shared amongst a fanbase of millions. The devs aren't laughing AT us; they're laughing WITH us. That's the key difference.
Take Evil, for example. An Evil sim enjoys when other sims have misfortunes, gets annoyed around Good sims, and cackles maniacally to themselves. In real life, evil humans blow up buildings or become serial killers. They can't be equated. Same with the Kleptomania trait. Obesity is a HUGE health crisis in many countries, and both Gluttony and Lazy are light-hearted stabs at the human qualities that lead to this problem. Depression is another serious health problem, but Gloomy sims don't go to extremes like suicide. Sims who hate children can be "mean" to them. Humans who dislike children generally don't do that; they just stay away from them and don't reproduce.
Similarily, the Insane sim trait is so exaggerated that it's too far removed from actual human mental illness to make a genuine comparison. As for the social stigma regarding mental illness; it certainly exists and is unfair. The main and most damaging misconception regarding the mentally ill is that they're dangerous, even though statistics prove they are fair more likely to be victimized than to be a victimizer.
Insane sims don't feed into this stigma. They occasionally get crabby and say something mean or weird to other sims, but that's about it. If the comparison to actual mental illness is fully extended, one could possibly even argue that within the sim world the trait paints a somewhat positive picture of people who are a little "off" mentally. They can still have positive attributes like Good and Genius, excell in their careers, be great parents, and are generally accepted by other sims without prejudice.
I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it, but I think you're taking it too seriously. As a physically disabled person, I know all about social stigma and others getting riled on my behalf. But I don't see a point in getting offended by things that are clearly meant to not be taken seriously, like the juice/nectar being the sim equvilant of alcohol, but pregnant sims can drink it. Someone could (and probably has) charged in here to white knight that plum with statistics of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. But it simply isn't necessary, or even reasonable.
You seem like a very smart and compassionate person. That's great, and I applaud it. But you're drifting very close to Social Justice Warrior territory. I don't appreciate when others get offended on my behalf over trivial things, and from my experience in the medical field pre-disablity and then my more recent experiences with other disabled people, most people don't like it. When an abled-bodied person gets offended on my behalf, over something trivial like a video game or movie, that itself is offensive to ME. It feels as if they're saying "You need to be protected from this." I don't. I can handle it myself. And if they're capable of dealing with their issues and manage to function in a stable fashion (as Insane sims do) most mentally ill people can too.
I'm on mobile, so I don't know how long this is, but I suspect I just wrote a novel. Sorry; I'm verbose like that (Verbosity would be an interesting sim trait!). In regard to the overall subject; I know there will never be any sort of disabled trait in the sims (way too politically incorrect I'm sure), which is why I wish the Clumsy trait was far more severe. I want my sim to have the option of using a cane, and sometimes just suddenly fall over when walking, just like me!
Sims are silly little parodies of the entirety of what makes us human, including the extreme polar opposites of positive and negative qualities, our strengths as well as our flaws. It's an inside joke. Laugh with us, fellow simmer, and take care
Comments
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
What I am saying is, if we cant have fun with fabricated "insanity", as unspecific and unrealistic as that is, what can we laugh about?
I am sure in most cases someone takes offence. Someone will feel it´s personal.
On topic.
I agree that humour can help to remove stigma, but jokes made at the expense of someone struggling with mental illness, or that mocks or belittles them, reinforces that stigma.
The point is that sensitive issues like mental illness need to be treated with respect, which means that when it is referenced in humour, it isn't referenced in a way that belittles the issue.
My simblr is Emy the Gamer
They're just words on a screen. Is it really that big a deal? Are you going to take an insane sim and show it to every 'not all there, mentally' person? Of course you aren't!
I see no problem here. I don't know what else to say, I have little patience for things like this when there are clearly bigger issues that need to be looked at first... I'm sorry
--T
For something to be mockery there has to be the intent to mock. Following me?
I am not sure if this was your intent, but to suggest to someone to stop playing TS4 because they post their thoughts about one feature in the feedback section seems quite unnecessary and even rude.
The OP explained very thoroughly that they have concerns about a certain feature of the insane trait, first and foremost. I don't feel bothered by the same thing, but I can recognize when someone is making an argument in a sensible way. Also they are not asking for anything to be changed in TS4, but wanted to make their concerns known for future iterations. So there is no time taken away from issues that are more pressing (in your opinion).
I don't know what else to say, it just seems like you did not read the original post, which may be explained by your "little patience".
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
Yep.
This is not an issue. This world is already too overly sanitized because of SJW nonsense. No need to add to it. It's a game.
You don't have to agree, but we're trying to have a conversation. That involves listening to the other side.
Have your monologue on another thread if you're not reading past the title thank you.
To you, it's not an issue. One person's "SJW nonsense" is another person's consideration for other people.
I don't care about the "Bro" or "Glutton" traits, but I wouldn't go to someone who has a problem with those and tell them, "It's not an issue." Obviously, it's something they care about, even if it's something I don't. I might state my opinion, but I'm not going to just brush it aside like they have no right to care about it.
I mean what I say. What you take from my post is up to you. I have little patience for people who nitpick at silly things, yes I say silly because that's what it is; silly fun.
If one cannot handle *one* word, regardless of reasons, (as I said in my last comment is the OP going to show every 'mentally ill' person her insane sim? No!? So what does it matter?), then yes, I suggest you either 1) not use the trait or 2) not play the game. I have no other suggestions to offer. The trait is not there to be associated with real life mental issues, as I said; silly fun!
And yes, I read the main post, hence why I answered. There is no legitimate argument here. If I was to be really frank I could tell the OP to grow up, it's a game.
But you know, that would be rude an all....
--T
Sorry, I should not have reacted to your first post at all. You obviously do not take the OP seriously - which is very different from disagreeing with someone - so there is no dialogue to be had with you. My bad, won't happen again.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
Why does everybody who expresses concern about something automatically get branded as a "SJW"? I don't agree with the OP, but they have stated themselves in a respectful manner that they suffer from mental illnesses and are uncomfortable with certain aspects of the trait.
SJW- That word has been ruined for me because individuals like you are using it incorrectly. It used to mean people who used their social status as an excuse to bully others, but now it's basically used on anyone who expresses concern over something or advocates for basic human decency. Like seriously, my friend got called one on twitter for quoting MLK on MLK day.
Lol nice try but don't make it out like you did a bad thing by replying to me. You didn't like what I said? That's fine. But that's your fault, not mine.
Good day.
--T
Do you want them to remove the trait? Change the descriptions? Language is an odd thing, when we call someone insane or crazy we often mean they have done something out of the ordinary. I call my girlfriend crazy but I don't mean she has a mental illness. In fact when referring to someone with a mental illness I have never seen anyone refer to them as insane or crazy. Terms like unwell, mentally ill, mentally unstable come to mind so in my mind the trait insane isn't referring to any real world mental issue but instead is referring to the "Hollywood" term if you will.
All I ask is consideration regarding this issue for future installments in the series. If there's going to be an Insane trait in, say, The Sims 5, or a spin-off series, it could be done without references to "the voices" or similar specific symptoms. Although that alone would satisfy me, I wouldn't be against them removing the Insane trait altogether, perhaps breaking it down into Emotional or Moody (where one is given to sudden bursts of different emotions) and Eccentric or Inappropriate (behavior similar to that of Insane Sims in The Sims 3, where they have unusual whims and may wear weird things for the occasion). I mean, Emotional and Inappropriate were already traits in The Sims 3, so it shouldn't be too much of a push.
But more than anything, I just want people to think about what I'm saying. That's all. Just think about it why some people might be uncomfortable with with the way this trait is treated currently. I appreciate those of you who are at least taking me seriously, even if you don't agree with me. It means a lot.
Correct me if I'm wrong but TS3 also had the Insane trait. I don't get why you're uncomfortable, there's nothing to *be* uncomfortable about - it's you that is looking at the trait in a negitive light. The game portrays insane as comical and humorous, which is exactly how it's supposed to be viewed. I'm sorry, but I find my insane sims talking to lamps pretty hilarious. It's funny.
If my friend wanted to bungee jump; I would call him insane. It doesn't mean he is mentally ill or unwell, which is what the poster before you pointed out.
Unless you consider yourself insane and think insane sims don't act like you think an insane sim should, then I don't see why you have a problem with it, or why you're worrying about what other people think about it? Does the trait personally offend you? I know it doesn't offend me. It's just a trait in a game. It's not real. If I picked the Insane trait for my sim then I would expect a little, well, insainity. I don't know what else to tell you. I get how you're feeling, I just don't understand why, there's no reason for it, imo. The trait is not there to make fun of mentally ill people. It's to be made *fun*, you know? The thing you feel when you're playing a game. They make these *same* sorts of puns in whacky insane cartoons. Look at Daffy Duck, I would call him insane. It's fun.
I'm sorry, but I just don't get why it bothers you. It's not supposed to. It's like me saying I get uncomfortable because flirty sims like to flirt a lot... like, I just don't see the big deal.
--T
You telling people "stop being uncomfortable because I said so" is irrelevant to the conversation we're trying to have and frankly I'm not sure anybody cares.
Intent does not equal impact. Until you step up your comprehension skill and move past that first stage, you are bringing nothing new nor interesting to the table, stop hogging a seat.
I tried the TS4 asylum and well...the insane and other traits like mean didn't really seem to do anything. All the mental patients in my asylum basically just acted like normal sims.
I get what you are saying, but I would have appreciated if you had explained your views in this manner from the beginning, instead of saying that I need to "grow up" and that I should just stop playing if it offends me so much. The entire point of this board is to bring up ways you feel that the game or series could be improved, correct?
You also seem to think that the Insane trait is ruining the game for me. It's not. Most of the Insane trait doesn't bother me, as I've mentioned in almost every post in this thread. The main thing I have a problem with is the name for the trait combined with the reference to auditory hallucinations. When references to "the voices" are made, the implication is that "insanity" is referring to mental illness (severe ones that mess with one's perception of reality) rather than someone who just does crazy things--like bungee jumping, to use your example. Then there's the fact that the whole "voices" thing is played for laughs, which is extremely common in popular portrayals of perception-altering mental illness.
Despite all this, I love The Sims 4, and I'm enjoying the game a great deal. Surely one can both love a game and admit that there are still some things that could be improved upon, correct?
Almost everyone feels that there are some things that should not be joked about, but everyone has different thresholds. You have a different threshold than I do, or maybe you are one of those people who feels that everything can or should be joked about. That's fine, but it doesn't mean I need to "grow up." (And no, you don't get any points for holding off on saying that outright. That was extremely rude.)
You knew that bringing this up would result in some backlash (you made that clear in the first paragraph of your first post) and yet you did. You explained it on a personal level, which should make it easier for others to empathize - even if they were not bothered by it before - and yet some won't and I am sure you knew that too. Good on you for doing it anyway.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
You're missing my point. It's *you* that is associating 'the voices' with real life mental illness. It's an insane sim, I would expect them to do insane things like talk to lamps and themselves or 'voices'. Gardener sims can talk to plants for Pete's sake, is that bad too?
I'm not trying to be rude, I'm telling you what I think. My initial reaction was to tell you to grow up. I didn't and explained myself first. What you take from my post is up to you I'm not here to impress anybody, you asked if people agreed with you. I don't, so I told you why.
/shrugs.
Dude, hush up or I'll take *your* seat.
--T
ETA: Is there a way to unsubscribe from a specific thread?
The thing is, every sim trait is a major, light-hearted exaggeration of actual human qualities and by that fact alone it shouldn't be equated to their actual human counterparts. Essentially, sims are caricatures of us as a whole, an inside joke shared amongst a fanbase of millions. The devs aren't laughing AT us; they're laughing WITH us. That's the key difference.
Take Evil, for example. An Evil sim enjoys when other sims have misfortunes, gets annoyed around Good sims, and cackles maniacally to themselves. In real life, evil humans blow up buildings or become serial killers. They can't be equated. Same with the Kleptomania trait. Obesity is a HUGE health crisis in many countries, and both Gluttony and Lazy are light-hearted stabs at the human qualities that lead to this problem. Depression is another serious health problem, but Gloomy sims don't go to extremes like suicide. Sims who hate children can be "mean" to them. Humans who dislike children generally don't do that; they just stay away from them and don't reproduce.
Similarily, the Insane sim trait is so exaggerated that it's too far removed from actual human mental illness to make a genuine comparison. As for the social stigma regarding mental illness; it certainly exists and is unfair. The main and most damaging misconception regarding the mentally ill is that they're dangerous, even though statistics prove they are fair more likely to be victimized than to be a victimizer.
Insane sims don't feed into this stigma. They occasionally get crabby and say something mean or weird to other sims, but that's about it. If the comparison to actual mental illness is fully extended, one could possibly even argue that within the sim world the trait paints a somewhat positive picture of people who are a little "off" mentally. They can still have positive attributes like Good and Genius, excell in their careers, be great parents, and are generally accepted by other sims without prejudice.
I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it, but I think you're taking it too seriously. As a physically disabled person, I know all about social stigma and others getting riled on my behalf. But I don't see a point in getting offended by things that are clearly meant to not be taken seriously, like the juice/nectar being the sim equvilant of alcohol, but pregnant sims can drink it. Someone could (and probably has) charged in here to white knight that plum with statistics of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. But it simply isn't necessary, or even reasonable.
You seem like a very smart and compassionate person. That's great, and I applaud it. But you're drifting very close to Social Justice Warrior territory. I don't appreciate when others get offended on my behalf over trivial things, and from my experience in the medical field pre-disablity and then my more recent experiences with other disabled people, most people don't like it. When an abled-bodied person gets offended on my behalf, over something trivial like a video game or movie, that itself is offensive to ME. It feels as if they're saying "You need to be protected from this." I don't. I can handle it myself. And if they're capable of dealing with their issues and manage to function in a stable fashion (as Insane sims do) most mentally ill people can too.
I'm on mobile, so I don't know how long this is, but I suspect I just wrote a novel. Sorry; I'm verbose like that (Verbosity would be an interesting sim trait!). In regard to the overall subject; I know there will never be any sort of disabled trait in the sims (way too politically incorrect I'm sure), which is why I wish the Clumsy trait was far more severe. I want my sim to have the option of using a cane, and sometimes just suddenly fall over when walking, just like me!
Sims are silly little parodies of the entirety of what makes us human, including the extreme polar opposites of positive and negative qualities, our strengths as well as our flaws. It's an inside joke. Laugh with us, fellow simmer, and take care